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July 21, 2016

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Flod

Ted was out-maneuvered by DT

Joan

The thing I keep thinking is what we teach our children from the very first time they meet defeat: Don't be a sore loser. Be a good sport. Don't look back, look forward. These sentiments are pounded into most "winner's" psyche. Sometimes they don't have to be pounded, of course.

Cruz doesn't have to 'accept' defeat, I don't think competitive people do, but competitive people have to learn to live with it, and go forward.

I hated it last night, especially when he said that about voting 'up and down' the ballot. It seemed to have a second meaning, because of his smirk.

Anyway, that's my take.

glasater

Didn't know about the part Trump was in the back..stone faced. Good for Trump!

Stick a fork in Ted. He's toast.

Pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter

Has Cruz sold out to Clinton? What is he thinking ? IMO, if Clinton wins there will never be 2020 election in the United States of America, she will have destroyed America.

Theo

I stand with our genial host. I don't think that Cruz will sway many people to vote differently than they would have, but I say he did right to stand for his principles and not get caught up in the moment.

buccaneer morgan

like Gove across the pond, and red queen will make sure he doesn't have a chair when the music stops in 2018.

Buckeye

Which principles?

The self-serving one?

The poor loser one?

Or the "once a prick, always a prick" one?

Miss Marple 2

If he had principles, Theo, then he shouldn't have accepted the invitation to speak.

I am still waiting to see if the rumors of him submitting a different speech to the RNC are true.

However, as Don Jr. said this morning, Cruz did manage to unify most people by making everyone upset at Cruz.

Stephanie

Never a Trump fan...

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/07/21/krauthammer-cruzs-rnc-speech-longest-suicide-note-political-history

Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)

(At the risk of probably drawing the enmity of most everyone left here, I would like to point out the following)

About the "Pledge of Support" . . .

Trump said on March 29, during a townhall in Wisconsin on CNN, that he was withdrawing his pledge to support the Republican nominee.

He repeated it several times - unequivocally - when questioned about it and asked to confirm his position. Trump said that "he (Cruz) doesn't have to support me - I'm not asking for his support."

Given that renunciation by Trump, there is no reason for anyone to demand that Cruz *had* to pledge his support to Trump. Trump would not have given his support to Cruz, if it turned out that Cruz won the primary.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKVCHuhIZ40


I was a big Cruz supporter, and I still believe Cruz would be a far, far better president than Trump could ever be.

But . . . I wish Cruz had endorsed Trump, *if* he was going to speak at the convention.

I did notice he called for everyone to come out and vote in November and not to "sit at home." That cannot be construed as asking for a vote for Hil-LIAR-y or some third party. He was speaking to Repubs, for heaven's sake.
And asking Repubs to vote for the candidate who supports freedom and the Constitution *should be* considered as asking for a vote for Trump, just without using his name.

I am voting for Trump - absolutely, without any question, but without any enthusiasm - because I *know* he will do less damage to America than Hil-LIAR-y will.

But I am not happy with the damage this election has done to the body politic of the Republican/conservative movement.


DebinNC

If part of Cruz's "principles" included a last minute switcheroo of the speech he submitted to the RNC two hrs. earlier, I hope he's treated like a leper for the foreseeable future.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

--But good for him.--

So, if I sign a contract and in the interim of performing he insults my wife I have the right to breach?

I have the right to confront him about it and I may very well have an obligation to knock the marmoset off his head if he refuses to apologize, but unless he breaches the agreement I have no right to breach it.

buccaneer morgan

actually no, you have to spell out the instruction of they'll vote for bluntman or the constitution party or even red queen,

Captain Hate on the iPhone

When attendees pointed out Mr. Cruz’s past pledge to support the eventual Republican nominee, Mr. Cruz suggested that any agreement was “abrogated” when Mr. Trump attacked the senator’s family.

Self serving mealy mouthed crap. So much for a principled alternative to the GOPe.

James D

But I am not happy with the damage this election has done to the body politic of the Republican/conservative movement.

I'm not, either. But I think 99.9% of the blame for it falls squarely on one side, and it's not the side of Trump or his supporters.


Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

--About the "Pledge of Support" . . .

Trump said on March 29, during a townhall in Wisconsin on CNN, that he was withdrawing his pledge to support the Republican nominee.--

IIRC, wasn't that after Kasich and Cruz had backpedaled previously on "the pledge"?
If not, I'm happy to be corrected.

Buckeye

P4F

I understand your lack of enthusiasm for Trump. I share some of it.

I saw nothing principled about Cruz's performance last night. Guy keeps trying to come off like he has a corner on the "moral high ground" market and then undercuts it with his behavior.

sidwhite

Replies I posted on the last thread.

JMH
Like most, I picked up the RNC info either from a comment on a board like this or FNC, but the party distinguished that every candidate had to sign this in order to get the RNC voter data. The premise made sense to me. Candidates all probably had good home state data but not so much from other states. Valuable data for Valuable endorsement is a contract as far as I can tell.

Regarding Pledge and Promise, I have just heard both terms tossed around and wanted to cover all bases. To me the difference in this case is insignificant. Just wanted to point out that the difference between agreement among candidates and the agreement with the RNC.

Frito
This former Ted guy fails to see how a statement on election day meets any definition of "endorse the candidate".

HRC appointing SC justices is way too important for the game Ted seems to be playing.


Posted by: sidwhite | July 21, 2016 at 12:30 PM

Theo

My understanding of the facts are that Trump invited Cruz to speak and Cruz told Trump in advance that he was NOT going to endorse him.

So I guess Trump either gambled that Cruz would endorse him or did not care. I know that our friend RG will argue that this was a brilliant multi dimensional chess move by Trump because, well, everything is.

I do think that Iggy has a decent counter argument. It is one thing to refuse to endorse based on principles -- for which I cheer Cruz -- but it is something else to have promised to endorse the nominee whoever it happened to be (including Trump) and not do it. He should not have made the pledge and should be dinged for having done so and not honored it.

buccaneer morgan

he did a very good impression of malcolm trumbull knifing tony abbott, as tim blair has apprised us of those circumstances,

Frau Beate Uhse

"The [MSM coverage of the] Republican convention erupted into tumult orgiastic and orgasmic frenzy which lasted longer than four hours on Wednesday night as the bitter primary battle between Donald J. Trump and Senator Ted Cruz reignited unexpectedly, crushing hopes that the party could project unity."
FIFY, NYT Journolisters

Miss Marple 2

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-21/the-strange-politics-of-peter-thiel-trump-s-most-unlikely-supporter

squaredance

Speaking of aliens.

(now it is all becoming clear to me...)

buccaneer morgan

well he's an iconoclast, a lot like trump, doomberg can't figure that out,

Theo

I doubt that Cruz' non-endorsement makes a difference in November. Cruz is not that influential and even if he had made a tepid endorsement (who could have expected more than that?) the notion that the party is united behind Trump is clearly false. I do not see who the voter out there is who would reason "I would vote for Trump if Cruz had endorsed him, but since he didn't I am staying home (or voting Hillary)."

henry

narciso, it let the bloomies run their R = troglodyte hackery in a new direction.

JM Hanes

Michael:

"Vote your conscience" is a veritable NeverTrump theme song, so it seems entirely fair to construe it is asking folks not to vote for Trump, even if not actively soliciting votes for Hillary. Hence the need to remind folks of down ticket races, so the folks who abstain from the presidential vote won't just stay home.

Miss Marple 2

If you ask me, Trump didn't cause as much damage as he revealed the damage already done to the "conservative brand."

Exactly what principles do Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney embrace? Smaller government? Holding Obama accountable?

What do Bill Kristol and Stephen Hayes have for principles? Hayes is gullible (thought that the Arab Spring was a democracy movement) and Kristol supported Colin Powell before he backed John McCain in 2008.

It looks to me like they don't want Rodney Dangerfield at school because he talks in a Queens accent and uses too much gold in his properties.

Those aren't principles. That is snobbery.

squaredance

The real story of last night is Pence. Can he seal the deal in the sing states in the Mid West?

daddy

Is anyone here interested in going to the Rio Olympics?

I wouldn't go if they paid me.

Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)

Buckeye - As I said, I think Cruz should *not* have appeared if he wasn't willing to endorse Trump.

You are right, what he did was not principled, it was just payback for Trump's personal attacks on Cruz himself, his wife, and his father.


RattlerGator

(from the prior thread)

My word is my bond. :)
Posted by: Ignatz Ratzkywatzky | July 21, 2016 at 12:15 PM

Ah, yes. The phrase that just won't go away. The phrase that is now an anchor around the neck of Ted Cruz no matter how many hairs are split or partial memories are tossed around.

And for those still doubting just how much Trump is viciously shaping the battlefield -- that phrase works particularly well against Hillary . . . doesn't it?

I mean, she blatantly lied to the country over and over about her server, about Benghazi, etc.

Crooked Hillary.

Lying Crooked Hillary.

Word is bond?

Porchlight

Yes JMH, after much discussion with neverTrumpers, "vote your conscience" and "up and down the ticket" is a clear endorsement of voting the R downticket and leaving the top blank or voting third party. That's how it's being understood by neverTrumpers if you look around the web.

Conscience. It is to laugh.

Porchlight

I wouldn't go if they paid me.

Me neither, daddy.

DebinNC

Is it possible Cruz is taken aback by the backlash? Did he not anticipate the negative reaction and factor in the likely effect on his loved ones? What he did doesn't make sense to me, since he knew the vindictive satisfaction would be fleeting but the repercussions wouldn't.

Porchlight

Around the web today:

Buckeye

You are right, what he did was not principled, it was just payback for Trump's personal attacks on Cruz himself, his wife, and his father.

Roger that.

In the process, the thing he mostly managed to do was hurt himself.

Trouble with slitting throats is that the razor knife is really sharp, if you're not careful you're likely to hurt yourself.

Stephanie

Flashback:

Cruz showed his true colors by telling people Carson dropped out of the race !!!

Funny how that gets lost in the memory of time.

derwill

Trump does have a knack for causing certain people to expose themselves for who they really are. Personally, I feel we're much better off knowing the ugly truth about these "principled true conservatives." I have now placed them in the enemy camp where they belong.

Cruz lost me after the Chicago riot that forced Trump to cancel his appearance, when he sided with the rioters rather than defending the First Amendment. That's when I realized his championship of the Constitution was nothing more than a political schtick to garner for himself national recognition that he could then use to catapult himself into a run for higher office. Unfortunately, this revelation occurred after I had already voted for him in the primary, but that is the last vote he will ever receive from me. From here out when it comes to Cruz, I will be voting my conscience.

I R A Darth Aggie

Didn't know about the part Trump was in the back..stone faced. Good for Trump!

That's the same Trump that linked Ted's dad to JFK's assassination?

That Trump? he made things personal, and I don't blame Ted in the least. It would have been better had he not gone to the convention and said nothing.

Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)

Iggy - I know 'Jeb!' had backpedaled on "the pledge" by that date, but Cruz had not. Not sure about Kasich, but I think he might have by then.

Cruz had been saying that it would be difficult for him to endorse Trump if Trump continued to attack him and his family. I think that might have been a warning to Trump, in Cruz's mind - but it clearly had no effect, as Trump continued the personal attacks.

buccaneer morgan

again he misses the point, it's not about trump, he behaved sadly like mcturtle and eddie munster, and to be blunt, who sold out phil haney, and talked cair as a partner organization,

Momto2

Wow - I was on the wrong thread. Reposting:

Well, well....Cruz is supposed to come to Ga. on Fri. to campaign for Mike Crane (for Senate). That should be interesting!

Today, Mike Crane is probably trying to figure out if anyone would notice if he just ‘forgot’ to pick Cruz up at the airport.”

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2016/07/21/ted-cruzs-rnc-snub-adds-spice-to-tomorrows-georgia-visit/

Momto2

(another repost - sorry)

daddy - that is encouraging news. I'm going to keep praying for a BIG "gully washer" as we say in the south.

Glad you're prepared for the worst but we're all praying for the best, of course!

cheerleader

Joan

About it having a second meaning. I just read a post ten minutes ago that said "Vote your conscience" is a #nevertrump motto.

Porchlight

It would have been better had he not gone to the convention and said nothing.

You are correct.

However, this is Ted we're talking about.

JM Hanes

sidwhite:

It makes sense to me as well. The RNC provides a lot of support, both financial and logistical, to candidates, which is part of why I think it's a good idea to contribute to their efforts, not just support the individual candidates you like. The logistical stuff, data sharing, on the ground networking etc. can be hard to come by, even if a candidate is doing ok on the funding raising end. A number of people here have suggested that politicians don't owe the party anything, but it seems to me that that is literally untrue. Of course, I'm not saying they owe the party everything, either.

In any case, I 'm interested in what the concrete details of any candidate/RNC agreements might be, but am too lazy to google the info up, myself!

squaredance

MM: I was just going to write something similar.

It is goign about that the last few decades of the CInservative movement" was :just to abstract" for the average voter. I do not really believe that, and in any event I understand why they had to build intellectual resources to combat the wonkery of the Left, particularity during and after the Reagan Years.

I think that the average vote who just got to the point where they felt that it was just so much blather and sloganeering. The question that keeps coming up is "just what are you 'conserving'"?

glasater

The Big news on CNBC is Trump supposedly saying he would NOT support NATO partners if they hadn't paid the 2% into its funding.

Buckeye

daddy, spent a lot od time in Rio between 2007 and 2010. Lots of really memorable experiences: lunch poolside at the Copocabana, Esch's (best cigar bar/Cuban restaurant anywhere) and Ipanema Beach (best eye candy anywhere).

However, traveling by car we always used the same driver, an Argentine who packed heat and knew how to use it.

Anything less would be foolish.

Miss Marple 2

Oh, look. Ben Howe wants you to give him money to make a movie trashing Trump.

I am telling you guys, if EVER the phrase "follow the money" applied, it's to these NeverTrump pundits, consultants, and think tanks!

https://www.gofundme.com/TheSociopath

DebinNC

Cruz is supposed to come to Ga. on Fri. to campaign for Mike Crane (for Senate)

Is Johnny Isakson retiring? Never heard of Mike Crane.

Captain Hate

Tammy Bruce: I misjudged Ted Cruz.

buccaneer morgan

it's like he looks into a mirror,

http://twitchy.com/jessem-34/2013/07/04/redstate-editor-ben-howe-apologizes-for-mishandling-photoshopped-sarah-palin-image/

yes, mauve state, the revenant, the whigs (I don't think they call themselves federalists in good conscience, anymore)

derwill

And I don't for a minute believe that Cruz did what he did because of Trump's insults to his wife and father. His messianic conviction is such that he would sell the souls of both Heidi and his dad to the devil if he thought it would get him the Oval Office. I just think it didn't occur to him that a large number (if not most) of those voters who supported him in the primaries had long ago moved on. He thought he was solidifying that vote for a run in 2020, and instead the backlash will probably destroy whatever chance he did have of winning a higher office. It will be interesting to see if he even survives a primary challenge the next time he runs for the Senate.

cheerleader

Cruz's problem is that he's book smart but not street smart.

anonamom

Theo, what principles exactly is Cruz standing for??

And exactly what frickin' planet do you all live on?

Dammit, we are talking about two, maybe three SC judges that will be there for twenty or thirty years!

GROW UP! This is about keeping the Ds OUT OF THE WH.
(that was for Gus)


BTW--Cruz was my guy once Walker dropped out.
Now, I hope he falls into an open sewer.
Though I guess he already did last night, didn't he?


daddy

Rush's take in Hour 1 is that Ted was gambling that Trump will lose and that in 2020 Cruz will be viewed like Winston Churchill when folks remember his principled stand against Trump, and that will get Cruz elected then. Rush thinks that is a miscalculation because Ted is not Winston Churchill, and is not viewed with anything like the emotional attachment folks had to Churchill.

buccaneer morgan

when an raf base isn't considered safe,


http://news.sky.com/story/raf-knife-threat-treated-as-attempted-abduction-10508206

sbw

Trump was in the back..stone faced

Doesn’t he always look stone-faced?

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

--Today, Mike Crane is probably trying to figure out if anyone would notice if he just ‘forgot’ to pick Cruz up at the airport.”--

Heh. That's funny.

Momto2

Oops - I meant Congress DebinNC - 3rd District - he's in a run-off with a former mayor. A very close race and both are fairly conservative .

Momto2

Many of the same grass-roots people who campaigned for Cruz are campaigning for Mike Crane. I imagine he is cringing today as it's a close race and he didn't really need anything controversial to happen. Early voting is in full swing. AND his opponent is already this morning using the Cruz/Crane connection in an attempt to capitalize on people's anger.

buccaneer morgan

and there's another incident in sydney, maybe that watch commander will do the same thing as mons place,

Captain Hate

Tammy Bruce: Heidi Cruz is at least as political as Ted and would probably be better at running for office (she has met them and thinks it's great they are a team).

cheerleader

He was given nine minutes to speak and he went way over time.

buccaneer morgan

it seems the crazy is being transmitted by rabid wallabies,

Art in Newport

.. He was given nine minutes to speak and he went way over time ..

What? You mean Cruz had nine minutes at the convention?

Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)

JM Hanes - (re: your 12:46 P.M.)

I don't know about you, but I cringed when I heard Cruz use that line about "vote your conscience."
That was the exclamation point, when I became convinced that he wasn't going to endorse Trump.

Time will tell if Ted's 'tin ear' and lack of political instincts have doomed his chances for higher office. I don't know about Texas politics, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is done for as a presidential candidate.


P.S.: Sorry for the delay in responding to your post :(


buccaneer morgan

we missed the blithering idiot's profundities,

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/cnsnewscom-staff/obama-world-has-never-been-less-violent

buccaneer morgan

fwiw, this is why moore was acting like slurms mckenzie,

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/polls/arg-24947

cheerleader

At the convention the speakers were each given an allotted amount of time, and I read that Ted's was allotted nine minutes, but he spoke for over twenty minutes

At least they didn't use a hook.

lyle

If Hilligula wins, who in the [redacTED] world with even a couple of firing synapses thinks the country will vote her out in '20? The infamous "fundamental transformation" will be complete. The melding of media/tech/progtard/academia/skynet/Pokemon will reach a singularity.

Maybe I should go for a walk in this gorgeous weather while listening to some Beethoven to clear my head.

Beasts of England

For those wondering if Ted's fundraising email this morning was to service campaign debt - he has zero debt and $20M cash on hand.

cheerleader

He started with the poignant story about the murdered policeman's daughter and managed to somehow get from their to his signature money in the underwear story. The speech was disjointed imo, not great oratory.

JM Hanes

derwill:

"Cruz lost me after the Chicago riot that forced Trump to cancel his appearance, when he sided with the rioters rather than defending the First Amendment."

I was unpleasantly surprised by that, too. It seemed to me that he was deliberately trying to advance the Trump=violence meme, at the expense of his principles, and also without regard to whether it might hurt Republicans generally. His current embrace of the victim card, including the husbandly umbrage worn oh-so-so prominantly on his sleeve, is enthusiastic enough to seem more self-serving than sincere to me. The point at which I really began to wonder how effective a President he might actually be, however, was when I saw how badly he bungled the simple logistics & timing of his climate change hearing.

The story here, to me, is less about broken pledges, yada, yada, than about the tin eared, arrogant, ineptitude that probably cost Cruz any hope of making a presidential come back in the future. In addition to Trump supporters, he managed to piss off a lot of his own (former) voters, like me. So, next time around he starts down by how many millions when you add those constituencies together? In fact, it occurs to me that even this time around, he may have just managed to give Trump a majority win, instead of a plurality.

Art in Newport

Ok, thanks, Cheerleader

cheerleader

JMH,

You said exactly what I've been thinking: "His current embrace of the victim card, including the husbandly umbrage worn oh-so-so prominantly on his sleeve, is enthusiastic enough to seem more self-serving than sincere to me."

Frau Beate Uhse

Beasts @1:53 - that's some cash on hand.
Why moar money? Cruz wants to get reelected and buy a fancy speed boat? Maybe take some speech lessons and hire Naomi Wolf?

Beasts of England

I'm with you, derwill. When Mr. Constitution couldn't be bothered with a full-throated defense of the freedom of assembly after the Soros Thugs shut down Trump's Chicago rally - yielding to expediency - I knew that I had screwed up in my support of Ted.

Frau Beate Uhse

Ted's future was his to lose and he did. I am so disappointed. Scott Walker and Newt Gingrich really pulled through without getting their noses brown.

lyle

Why does Karl Rove get a weekly column in the WSJ?

Beasts of England

He's piling it on for 2020, Frau. Or Earth-tone suits. lol

(I had almost forgotten about Naomi!)

Thomas Collins

My opinion of Cruz is now similar to my opinion of Romney. If Cruz has such disdain for Trump that Cruz couldn't bring himself to endorse Trump, Cruz should have made this clear after Indiana and carried on the fight to the convention, instead of having his people be part of the underhanded coup movement. If Cruz wanted to skewer Trump for Trump's statements about Cruz's wife and father, there was plenty of time to do that before this morning. Sore loser, thy name is Ted.

I don't think the speech will hurt Trump much if at all. But the big winner last night was Pence. If I didn't know better, I'd say Pence paid Cruz off to make Pence look even better as the standard bearer of GOP conservatism on an ongoing basis.

cheerleader

Beasts,

That is surprising. With parasitic consultants clinging to him and encouraging him to keep on keeping on, I thought he'd be in major debt.

lyle

Speaking of the WSJ, of course they have a front page story regaling Trump's failures. Why not rename it Vote Hilligula Journal? It couldn't be more obvious.

Theo

In the meantime, Nate Silver's computer now gives Trump more than a 40% chance of winning, nearly double the chance that he gave him a few weeks ago.

Trump is not more popular than before, but people are really wising up to just how awful Rodham is. This is going to be a clothespin election of epic proportions.

cheerleader

Tom,

Going by his financial situation, which Beasts posted, it doesn't seem he was constrained by financial lack, so I wonder why he didn't.

Buckeye

Why does Karl Rove get a weekly column in the WSJ?

Presstitution alive and well at the WSJ.

lyle

Ohfercryinoutloud, Cornell West things a Hilligula presidency could lead to WWIII, unlike the fascist Trump presidency would. I need a drink...😬

Stephanie

Boehner has weighed in...

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/288676-boehner-on-cruz-lucifer-is-back

GACK. SMOD can't come quickly enough.

cheerleader

Roger Stone is saying that a thriving new conservative media outlet is going to arise in the wake of Fox going full left.

lyle

Clothespin election, you say? My bet is Trump smells better than a drunken, waddling, beefy lesbo.

Apologies to any and all lesbos.

Captain Hate

Why does Karl Rove get a weekly column in the WSJ?

Al Hunt, Alexander Cockburn, Thomas Frank...

Rocco

Didn't the Cruz Super Pac run an add in Utah with a nude picture of Trumps wife? Cruz can deny he had nothing to do with it but I don't believe that for a second. And if he cared so much about family, why didn't he immediately condemn that add and apologize? No...Cruz fired the first shot against Trump's family and he's a hypocrite. That's the way I see it.

Theo

My thoughts:

1. I agree with Rush, Cruz probably acted (in part at least) with an eye towards 2020 and being able to say "I was not part of the Trump debacle of 2020 and stood by conservative principles."

2. I agree with Rush it probably won't work.

3. I agree with TC. I don't think Cruz' speech will have any meaningful impact on the 2016 race. There are not a lot of people waiting for Cruz to tell them how to vote.

Theo

OOOps.

The first point should read:

I agree with Rush, Cruz probably acted (in part at least) with an eye towards 2020 and being able to say "I was not part of the Trump debacle of 2016 and stood by conservative principles."

Thomas Collins

I would put Cockburn above the others, CH. Cockburn was an old fashioned rock-em sock-em leftist. I enjoyed reading him. I especially enjoyed his skewering of the environmental wackos. Today, I have trouble thinking of a leftist who recognizes that greenism hurts the workers leftists supposedly hold dear.

cheerleader

Rocco,

Exactly. Cruz's choirboy act is nauseating.

lyle

But they already have William Galston, Capt.

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