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January 09, 2017

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hrtshpdbox

First!

JimNorCal

Apropos TMs earlier post on polluted air in North China, here is a link to a Chinese equivalent of a public service announcement. It has subtitles. :)
Four celebs stride thru an airport listening to an announcement that basically all flights are delayed due to the environment.
Then three of of the celebs give passionate statements about the air, land and water. Not sure what happened to the fourth.

Only a couple minutes and interesting, I think. Pretty mild but perhaps govt will not be happy, and I think a lot of the populace is supportive but celebs can rub you the wrong way when pontificating as we all know.
See what you think.
http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/SBOEMDp9p-XSJ3jCGysLSA

hrtshpdbox

Biz people know it's not easy (or profitable or sensible) being green.

Repeated from the end of the last threat (my timing is impeccable), I'd like to ask JOM'ers what to make of the "pizzagate" story. I have a British friend who is convinced that there is indeed a liberal Democrat pedophilia ring, and that the owner of that shop (as well as Podesta and Hillary) are all in on it. He sent me some disturbing website materials, and he thinks there's just too many situations involved for it be coincidence or, as he puts it, an "alt right conspiracy fever". What say you, is there fire behind that smoke?

hrtshpdbox

"last threat" is "last thread", aiee.

hrtshpdbox

Porchlight, I saw your response on the other thread, thanks. If some of these allegations turn out to be true, it might actually BE the end of the Dems!

Stephanie despicable me

Interesting take from one of my FB followers:

Mr. Trump's Twitter responses to the fake news garbage being promoted by Hollywood and the Mainstream Media is brilliant and needs to be sustained. And for a very good reason.

In 2001, a Progressive campaign, including the same clowns who are attempting to disparage President Trump, launched a filthy campaign to discredit then President Bush. They lied about Mr. Bush's conduct of the Afghan and Iraq wars, made false charges about his military service and repeated lied about his intelligence and education. Mr. Bush is a gentleman and he followed a gentleman's response, which was to not respond. That was a major mistake that Mr. Trump has learned from.

President Bush was a Yale graduate with a Harvard MBA and a list of successes in the business world. His leadership had the Iraq war won, the Afghan War under control and had allowed no Islamic terrorist attacks on American soil by the time he left office. But the constant lies spewed by the DNC and the American Media created a false narrative that presented lies as truth.

President Trump is demonstrating that he will not allow the collective Progressive slime, including Streep, to again utilize the "Politics of Personal Destruction to reduce the effectiveness of his Presidency by allowing lies liked Streep's to stand un-answered. His use of Twitter to face-down his air-headed opponents is also brilliant as he is speaking directly to the American People, rather allowing the unethical Media to falsely portray his actions and goals by showing videoclips that distort what is actually happening.

In business this would be called a "disintermediation strategy", because Mr. Trump and his very savy group of advisors are removing the middle men and by doing so they are taking the Progressive Media out of the game to a fair degree. This is why there is so much hyperventilation coming from the propagandists of the Left.

Mr. Trump will not stop his direct to the American citizens via Twitter campaign because it is working. Anytime own's opponents scream "Foul" one knows that the strategy being deployed his being effective. Kudos to Mr. Trump, Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway for turning the Left's most important strategy against them!!!

To my Friends who are uncomfortable with the decorum of the President's Twitter strategy, I pose a simple question. Would you prefer to allow the DNC and their sycophantic Media acolytes to shape the narrative of the Trump Administration or are you willing to allow our new President to tell the American People?

JimNorCal

Way, way off topic....one of the Chinese celebs is a bald actor. He wears a baseball cap a lot. One of his movies is a quirky Chinese romantic comedy with an online dating theme called If You Are The One.
In my house we're like MM :) No cable, no NFL, no NetFlix basically no support of Hollywood or MSM. But we do watch YouTube movies from time to time and I notice that If You Are The One is currently available. About 2 hours, so a big time commitment. But I think you may find it both entertaining and a window into another culture?
https://youtu.be/rF-BPUXigZw

Porchlight

hrtshpdbox, reposting my second comment:

I'll also say this. There are several sex rings operating right here in central Texas, with the Formula 1 racetrack being ground zero. The track is an international millionaires' playground, with DFW, Houston, and the Mexican border just a few hours away.

I've heard people mention it as a "oh yeah, I heard about that" kind of thing but no one bats an eye. Not much law enforcement can do since there are very very deep pockets discouraging them from any interference with the racetrack goings on.

It's common knowledge among local teachers that a school has recently been opened for the children of these young women (but there are also young men).

This is from three years ago:
http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news/2013/11/14/increase-in-human-trafficking-could-happen-during-the-formula-1-weekend-police-say

If this can go on and be virtually ignored/taken for granted in Texas, it can certainly go on among the DC/international elite worldwide.

KevlarKid

"Since 2008, the United States has experienced the first sustained period of rapid GHG emissions reductions and simultaneous economic growth on record. Specifically, CO2 emissions from the energy sector fell by 9.5% from 2008 to 2015, while the economy grew by more than 10%."

10% divided by 7 years = 1.42% average annual growth rate..... are you frickin' kidding me? That is supposed to be some kind of positive correlation with curbed CO2 emissions?

Gotta get 4% annual growth rate or we're goin backwards. Gawd I hate that Moron.

pagar, a bacon, ham and sausage supporter

From the last thread, too.

"I don't think any of the other 17 would have beaten Clinton."

Posted by: Old Lurker

OL, I agree 100%.

Dave (in MA)
reducing the efficiency of their energy usage can improve the venerable bottom line
Was this a test to see if anybody actually reads the posts?
lyle

Good lord:

http://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2017/01/Stein-Tweet.jpeg


Marlene

Darn,if we were at the cabin this winter we would be doing our part running the wood stove full blast and putting all those wood smoke particles in the air. :)

lyle

I don't think any of the other 17 would have beaten Clinton.

I agree as well. It would have been a Curb Dive landslide.

Sandy Daze

(Since this thread seems to be +/-50% repostings from the last thread... I don't feel bad about reporting my last comment:)

~~~~~~~

Asked under the heading "Questions I have not seen asked (nor answered) elsewhere":

Is it just me or are the best commercials on TV these days all from the insurance companies ?

Was thinking about this the other day in one of those rare instances watching a non-DVRed program. On came this commercial from Farmers:
Farmers Insurance Commercial 2016 Funny Dogs This commercial is just one of Farmers many many funny commercials.

Then there are the man Geico commercials, the caveman and those with Maxwell the pig ! (Digression, I wonder how many muslimbs buy Geico insurance...?) Not to mention the geckko commercails...

There are a series of Allstate "Mayhem" commercials and those with Dennis Haysbert are sometimes serious, and sometimes funny.

Then there are those Aflac ads with the duck ! I had never seen that one with Guy Fiere (yes, that Guy, from Triple-D), until looking for this link. Wow. Good stuff.

Now, these ads are not like the USMC ads, which never tire, but Marines are selling insurance of a different sort !

JimNorCal

Russian embassy uses Pepe to tweak Brits?
https://mobile.twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/818439246214262784

Dave (in MA)

KK, you can surpass the 10% growth rate from '08 to '15 at a 1.5% annual rate.

Dave (in MA)
yes, that Guy, from Triple-D
Diners, Drive-ins and Dumpsters?
KevlarKid

DaveinMA:

am I missing your sarc?

Kev

boatbuilder

Kevlar-imagine how "robust" that growth rate would have been without fracking.
Whoever wrote this for Obama also wrote that embarrassing attack on Israel for Kerry.
Serious issues with cause and effect, basic math, statistics and comprehension. On purpose, of course.

lyle

10% divided by 7 years = 1.42% average annual growth rate.

KK, you can surpass the 10% growth rate from '08 to '15 at a 1.5% annual rate.

Ahem. You're pointing an 8 beep diff? Really? :)

lyle

That's almost as bad as saying "per capita" vs. "per person"! ;)

Sandy Daze

FTR,
I agree with OL, Pagar, and Lyle.

None of the others
1) could have beaten hrc in the popular or in the EC vote, and

2) if by some freak that they would have done so--and I am totally discounting the possibility--they would have been savaged by the dem-msm.

DJT may be fighting back, and there are those that may find the way he fights not congenial to their tender sensibilities, but I for one, am damned glad he fights. It is about time someone on our side did.

He may be a bastard, but he is our bastard. And he fights. America loves a fighter, a winner and hates a loser, a coward. I want to win so much, so frequently, that I write in these august pages, ENOUGH, enough, too much winning. Give them a break. Lift up your foot from the scrawny neck and let them breathe.
.
.
.
.
Just kidding.

I want complete and unconditional surrender from the prog-commie-left-dems.
.
.
.
.
And, nothing less.

Yeah, all those repuk brainiacs who know oh so well how to handle the dems, like last week's FIRST order of business in the new congress. YGBSM.

Dave (in MA)

No sarc, just piling on how pathetic Okiedoke is.

RattlerGator

(forgot to always check for a new thread before posting! So, a re-post before I comment on a few entries)

I'm finding it increasingly hard to keep up and suspect I'll have to give up on the idea entirely, but helicoptering in periodically will have to do.

But you sap suckers have your hooks in me.

Dammit.

Jack is Back!

Well, once again, I must take exception to this myth of natural gas being the fuel of the future or able to replace coal and nuclear and supplement renewables. Hogwash!

Its very nice that we have all this fracking and cracking and becoming energy independent. But are we actually doing it efficiently?

I had this conversation with one of my bright Belgian nephews who is getting his MBA with stints at Marquette and Tokyo. He is not a global warming nut case (which I found kind of surprising) but is more concerned with our energy sources and their efficiency.

As I have noted here before, we can burn coal and reduce its SO2 emissions by up to 95% and generate at 85% efficiency or above depending on the BTU values. However, with NG, our efficiency has peaked at 55-60% to produce less baseload dispatchable power than coal or nuclear. So to protect the planet (not really but in myth and disguise) we are willing to sacrifice efficiency for unrealistic dreams.

NG is much better used (90-95% efficiency) to make plastics, chemicals, polymers, fertilizers (feed the world's hungry) and be better used in selective peaking situations for stressed electric systems in the summer.

YMMV

Dave (in MA)

RG, we had so much 1.5% growth, we got tired of 1.5% growth.

Thomas Collins

Perhaps Obama wants a gig as a clean energy consultant for an investment bank or energy company.

RattlerGator

Luckily, our daughter got picked up and got at least 30 days, so she is detoxing in jail the hard way. Her first stint in jail for any length of time as well. Hopefully she will go into rehab afterwards.

At this point my mind is somewhat like the infantryman's. You assume they're going to die and are pleasantly surprised when they don't.

Posted by: matt, deplore me if you must | January 08, 2017 at 09:13 PM

My goodness, Matt. I feel for you, bigtime.

I just cannot imagine what that must be like, to reach that level of devastating resignation.

RattlerGator

Good one, Dave!

Dave (in MA)

Imagine if we hadn't had all those Recovery Summers...

Porchlight

But you sap suckers have your hooks in me.

Good, I'm glad. You are a valuable addition here, RG.

lyle

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/obama-to-receive-medals-from-iran-cuba-syria-and-the-plo-t19159.html

Don't forget to scroll.

Porchlight

Kate's Law being reintroduced:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/01/09/congress-reintroduces-kates-law-illegal-immigration-legislation

This seems to be....on the Trump agenda, no?

😳

It quotes carbon as a percentage of GDP, which is how they want to tax like cap and trade or the gas tax like the unelected premier of Ontario (Canada, 'your pals')just imposed.

Anyhow, it's all energy and we know who that makes....😱

Porchlight

Unsurprisingly, I agree with those who argue that Trump was the only candidate who could have beaten Curb Dive.

It was also Helmut Norpoth's conclusion back in February 2016, btw.

Now Norpoth's model turned out to be wrong, because Hillary won the popular vote - but he did conclude that Trump would easily become the next president. And absent California Trump did win the popular vote.

RattlerGator

Me Again ain't got no boobies...

Posted by: Stephanie despicable me | January 09, 2017 at 02:36 PM

You're right, Steph. But I thought I saw a nipple screaming for some attention behind that cloth.

Was it just me? Am I telling on myself, hmmm?

Big breastasis are beautiful, indeed, but they aren't the end of the story "up thar" if ya knows what I means and I thinks ya does.

Dave (in MA)
Ahem. You're pointing an 8 beep diff? Really? :)
No, I wasn't arguing with KK, I was agreeing with him and just saying that even an anemic growth rate of 1.5 gets us better than what Zippy was patting himself on the back about.
lyle

https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2017/01/09/iran-shows-obama-not-trump-putins-biggest-lackey/

What Zippy does to the mullahs is well beyond the descriptor of a "lackey." Diseased crack whores have more self respect.

lyle

I know, Dave (in MA), I was just joshin' ya.

RattlerGator

And before I forget -- wifey is a Carolinian so her folks may be pulling for Clemson but I'm a SEC man -- go Yalla Hammers!

Jack is Back!

In case you missed it: The Bubble, starting in 2017.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=762p43qHRiE&list=PLS_gQd8UB-hIPqw-93d3IRdf6phKCLGH2

lyle

wifey is a Carolinian

Reminds me of the ubiquitous bumper stickers I saw when I live in Columbia, SC, years ago:

Carolinian by birth, Gamecock by the grace of God

Always seemed a bit melodramatic...

I should remind that USC had only joined the SEC a couple of years earlier.

☔

This isn't really 'sciency.'It reads more like a financial brochure for entities justifying the need to seize the air, lands and waters to protect us. Who'd a thunk the UN would be taxing our air? Directly soon.⚡

lyle

IMO, this is a better read than that Newsweak link last thread:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/01/the_grapes_of_liberal_winter.html

Despite President Obama's public rhetoric, we never knew the man, for he used language to create a fog of misinformation around his life, his character and his intentions. He believed in class warfare -- the first weapon of Marxist ideology -- yet he spoke only of "hope and change," and there we listened. He brought a passion for political reforms that seemed irresistible, and many wanted to hear him; therefore, we gave him our trust, for we are a nation of good will. In this we were honest; he was not. We wanted to give this man a chance to succeed, to do the things he said he would do -- this man who spoke so well with words written by others. We remember his perverse ingratitude, as well as his arrogance, towards the working middle class, the very people who offered him their hopes for a better life. We wanted to believe in him; he did not wish to believe in us.
Jack is Back!

Lot of engineering friends from Clemson, a few from Bama.

But for me .......... it's Roll Tide. They just play as if they CAN'T be beat.

RattlerGator

Yeah, lyle. They were my 2nd favorite SEC school. Underdogs and ever'thang.

Then Steve took that damn job. And beat us in his first year at Carolina! And came to Gainesville coaching against us in 2006! And almost beat us his first time coaching against us at Florida Field !!! (we won the national championship that year)

I cussed Steve's azz out many times because of that. I love Steve and it just about drove me crazy.

All is back to normal now, thank goodness.

henry - drunk on prog tears

Reducing energy efficiency is what we do after eliminating profit from overhead.

Jack is Back!

henry, ;)

RattlerGator

Not being nice at all, Cecil. Your devil's advocacy almost always states the view from that vantage point clearly and objectively and never offensively and while I reserve my right to whistle past the graveyards, I appreciate it when you reveal that that right there IS a graveyard that I might not have seen.

Posted by: Old Lurker | January 09, 2017 at 02:48 PM

It is oftentimes frustrating as hell, but I tend to agree OL.

Jack is Back!

RG,

Since I am away from the First Coast for awhile, what are the rumors to replace Bradley at Jags? Lots of guys I respect in the game say it has to be someone who can make Bartles an NFL QB.

lyle

Heh, henry.

Jack is Back!

If you want to get a feel for where our petulant narciss will be spending his time after 1/20 then tune into his Farewell Speech.

He thinks he will replace George Washington's but he is wrong.

Dave (in MA)

--

Adam Markopoulos
‏@AdamMarko
Hey @OnlyInBOS, look who I found on the Nantucket ferry on their bye week...#RelationshipGoals

--
ESPNAssignmentDesk ‏@ESPNAssignDesk
@AdamMarko Hello, can ESPN use this on all platforms? Please let us know. Thanks

--

Adam Markopoulos
‏@AdamMarko
@ESPNAssignDesk No chance @ESPN, you started Deflategate.

DO.
NOT.
USE.
MY.
PHOTO.

#LoyaltyToBill
#LoyaltyToTom
#LoyaltyToKraft

Old Lurker

Hey James, about your boys:

http://nypost.com/2017/01/09/giants-trash-airplane-following-embarrassing-playoff-blowout/

Old Lurker

They are neighbors in our little village, Dave.

lyle

JOM's fave RINO, Hugh Hewitt has a opinion piece in today's WSJ:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/policy-purity-is-bad-politics-1483914192

Arguing that Ryan's tax reform plans to include the elimination of the mortgage interest deduction is bad policy. Very curious as to your thoughts. He cites this (to me) quite dubious assertion:

Capping the deduction would hurt every homeowner—even those whose interest payments fall below the cap—because housing is one market, and by reducing the value of the most expensive homes, you reduce the value of every home. Economist Richard McKenzie has estimated that the value of every home in America would decline by 10% to 15% the day after the deduction is capped.

Again, I don't believe this claim, "Capping the deduction would hurt every homeowner" or the "decline by 10% to 15%." But arguendo, wouldn't reducing the value of homes make it easier for first time home buyers? And what about the roughly half of homeowners that don't have a mortgage? Would not property taxes have to fall on lower values?

(Hey, you didn't think we could go another lengthy thread talking about Zippy's lying blather, did you?)

KevlarKid

Back to you, Matt... I was remiss in not wishing you well re your loved one and her current road.

Our prayers here for you and yours come from a bona fide recovery household.

We get it.

And I must say, that when the loved ones are tested as you have been, the infantryman's outlook is perhaps one of the most tried and true.

Another that works for us, as we have many people in our lives who are headlong into their addictions, are newly sober/clean, or trudging that road in recovery early on, is the cowboy's approach--- throw em a rope and tie it to a post.

Peace be with you and yours, Matt.

======Related share=====

I was taking prescribed vicodin for crippling diabetic nerve pain for over six years. 6 to 8 tablets per day.... half in the morning when I rose and half before I went to sleep.

My prescription supply was 180 tablets per month with a "bridge refill" to get me through the over/under of the last four days of the month...another 40 tablets. Insurance co-pay on the total was about $20 by the end of the sixth year. It was $5 when I started down that road.

When my doctor put me on the vicodin it was a desperate measure in that the nerve pain was absolute torture. Drinking alcohol was out of the question, although some diabetics kamikaze their way to the end of their line by drinking booze to kill the nerve pain and ending the hell more quickly. But I had 20 years in without taking a drink and it wasn't an option.

"Vike" worked like a champ. The drawback as many of you are aware is that the dosage begins to lose its effectiveness requiring a progressively higher dosage. And I was already way up the ladder on dosage.

The challenge was to find a way to come of the Vike for a few days so that the dosage wouldn't creep upward. But coming off meant withdrawal side-effects. The side-effects for me were like a violent flu. A four day let up was something I only went through once and nearly lost my mind.

Found a helper. An herb found in Thailand "meng da". It nipped the withdrawal symptoms in the bud. Pain was a bitch but at least I knew that I was going back in under four days to resume the vestiges of "normal life" as it had become for an advanced diabetic.

Fast forward to 2016 when I went for diabetic recovery treatment.... my doctor put me on a 2 week fast. The only nutrition during the two weeks was a green vegetable juice (greens, celery and cucumber) at six pints a day. I was allowed to season it to taste like a green "Snap E Tom." Tasty elixir.

Concurrently at the beginning of the fast, my vicodin bottle disappeared. And I'd run out of meng da before shipping out to Patagonia, AZ for treatment.

When I discovered the vicodin was gone I decided that I was just going to have to kick in the name of reversing the diabetes.

The doctor in charge had a policy: no drug withdrawal support is provided. Get clean before you come here. I had an edge in that I'd provided the program with my list of prescriptions so they knew I was on vike and for how long.

But they'd lost my list. So I gave them a new one. After six days fasting I told them I was off the vike; and, although I was suffering terribly from foot pain, I wasn't experiencing any withdrawal symptoms. The stress of withdrawal would have jacked up my blood sugar too...but I was at low fasting sugar levels after six days (74...that's amazing with 80-100 pretty okay for a non-obese adult.)

Why wasn't I experiencing withdrawal symptoms?

My doctor said he uses the green juice fasting regimen (along with deep bowel cleanses) for drug withdrawal. The nutrient level and the turbocharged enzymatic efficiency digesting those nutrients in a cleaner bowel make for "significantly less hell" as he put it.

Answers are hiding in plain sight. From time to time I put on my "They Live" sunglasses and am amazed at what can be resolved so long as the infantry and the cowboys do their jobs.

Peace.

lyle

A little more from those pay-walled out:

A tax reform that gouges every homeowner—why? Who ran on the platform of devaluing homes? Who gave a campaign speech that said “I will eliminate the home mortgage deduction”? No one did. Instead they rightly campaigned on tax reform and simplification. That is not a mandate to strike at the heart of the American dream, or to play in half-truths about “capping” it only for the wealthiest, when the real effect would be a trickle-down markdown of home values.

Gee, Hugh. In a little too deep with your own mortgage? You sound...a little desperate.

Thomas Collins

Uh-oh, Dave (in MA). Another boat pic for a playoff participant!

Jack is Back!

I have refused to watch the start of The Five for over 6 months now and instead watch something else. But today I am watching the last 1/2 hour and I realize that Dana Perino and Juan are the reasons I don't watch. So back to something else. Two dysfunctional and totally biased eejits. She continues to live under the W umbrella of wishy washy surrender conservatism.

She deserves Jasper.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

"The importance of this trend can't be understated"?

The man is an imbecile.

hrtshpdbox

..the W umbrella of wishy washy surrender conservatism.

I'm always unclear on this (GWB's ostensible fair-weather conservatism). Where did he surrender? Not, for sure, after getting drubbed in the '06 congressional elections - he immediately launched the Surge. Not on 9/11, either. Unless "surrender" means to have a different point of view about immigration problems than some "warrior conservatives". For me, GWB's two sins were not calling out the media for their nonsense memes, and TARP. Other than that, I think he was a pretty great president (I remember, too, a discussion on this board at the end of 2008, where many here ranked GWB in the top five presidents; I can't imagine how his stock wouldn't continue to rise based on the last eight years).

sbw

From the last thread. Caro’s friend: I would like to subscribe to a newspaper that is a little more balanced.

So would I, Caro. And thank you, JiB, for the plug for the Rome Sentinel.

Actually, it is hard to find any newspaper that isn’t tainted by coverage provided by the Associated Press, prepared inside its very proud bubble of self-infatuation.

AP says that since it gets complaints from both sides, it must be objective. That is a crock. Journalism is an accolade that must be earned fresh each article. If I can puncture the presumptions of any given AP article, it fails the test, no matter what AP thinks of itself.

Take today’s Golden Globes. AP led with Meryl Streep. Sorry, editors, but the meat of the story is who won, not who tried to steal the limelight to take unfounded potshots at a political figure, based on discredited information.

I subscribe to the Wall St. Journal, but it is not the newspaper or the editorial page it used to be and I am considering canceling the very expensive subscription next year. I gave up the NY Times years ago. Our regional newspaper in Syracuse is an echo of its former self, the more local other city newspaper is a Gatehouse owned ad wrap. Interestingly, the UK Daily Mail has well-sourced penetrating articles in between the UFO stories. Just wait for a pointer to substance. I listen to no alphabet network. Fox News is mostly tripe, too. I hear flashes of insight on Fox Business when I listen, but they often err by inserting too much opinion in what should be news.

The best I can suggest has already been suggested: Read Instapundit as an aggregator to inoculate yourself against the MSM BS. It doesn’t matter what you read or watch so long as you are prepared to laugh at MSM’s silly reindeer games.

I seldom suggest people read JOM because it takes considerable familiarity to master the noise and scroll on by the noise.

Caro, the crux of the issue is this: an individual can’t trust outside experts -- like those who claim the title in journalism -- to do one’s homework. You have to become expert at choosing experts. You have to become expert at knowing when to change the channel or turn the page. Do it often. Tell your friend to graze. Tell your friend to pay attention to build rhetorical skills. Then tell your friend to laugh.

KevlarKid

lyle--- great question. A few thoughts (you dint think you could give us an opening about Obunkee and me not take a shot didja? ;)

People getting big mortgages for the sake of the big tax exemption are ill-advised. Although tax savings are essential for building wealth longer-term, paying excessive mortgage interest to get the tax break isn't quite the same as other tax-savings strategies.

It's like paying a double witholding tax to the government.

Some other party uses my interest payment and then I get a return (on paper) from the government after all that cash is used *interest-free* by somebody else.

The payroll witholding that goes on comes back as a partial refund which some people see as "money set aside."

Maybe we have to discuss the difference between yellow stuffs: one is Gatorade and the other is anti-freeze....one beneficial (savings) and the other is lethal longer term to wealth building.

So much for understanding the miracle of compound interest (in my accounts, not Sam's) and the time value of money.

The only true savings value in mortgages is paying into the equity side of the equation, right? Pay off that mortgage and pay into the equity side 100% and move on.

Pay what the home is worth to begin with, limit exposure, and who cares what the interest exemption is----- it's irrelevant when one is paying $1M for a $250,000 piece of domestic real estate.

Will a lost tax exemption change that? NOPE!

And therein lies the value of domestic homeownership. Dicking around with a long term interest heavy mortgage is ruinous and favors only the bank.

The lost exemption might depress demand among the least savvy buyers for reasons linked to the interest exemption.

However, demand for properties, at least here in the SF Bay Area won't allow values to sag with the bottom of the food chain benefitting most from price inflation.

Demand isn't predicated on government tax policy. That isn't the incentive it once was back after WWII when we were on a gold standard and the gummint wanted to do two conflicting things: stimulate the economy and pay off war debt.

Offering interest exemptions on home mortgages was a way to create a new financial market *AND* stimulate the domestic durable goods market.

Now, having said all of that, the key for all of us is the capital gains rate. When we cash out of something like a mortgage to do the next chapter...capital gains tax is the "winner gets crucified" reward Sam has waiting for us.

What will PEOTUS propose about that? It's something he understands *VISCERALLY*. I am not so sure Paul Ryan has a handle on that.

But to say that the loss of a tax exemption on interest, with the possible coming tax exemption on medical insurance ferallderall, will depress the value of every home? Poppycock.

One man's opinion.


Clarice Feldman

repeat from end of last thread.http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poll-schumers-make-america-sick-again-slogan-bombs/article/2611308

Make America Sick Again is working--just not the way the Dems thought it would.(Maybe they're working with former Republican crack campaign consultants,_)

DebinNC

The WH site has several pages devoted to BOzo'e "Farewell Address", tomorrow 9:00 ET in Chicago. 7000 free tickets were distributed on Sat, some immediately offered for sale on Ebay/Craigslist for up to $5000. BOzo's invitation to tune in letter on the WH site brags at length about all "we've" accomplished and ends with ...

"Because, for me, it's always been about you."

President Barack Obama
................................................
P.S. And the $85,000,000+ vacations

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

Home prices are about where they were in 05, AKA the great real estate bubble.
They are there even more because of bad monetary policy than last time.
Any effect of capping the mortgage interest deduction will be minor compared to the deduction of ZIRP from the present inflated value.

Tonto

JOM travel mavins -- I'm leaving East Hampton this Sunday to drive to Monterey, CA. I'll be going solo, and am planning to head down to Raleigh, then take 40 as far West as I can. Sound reasonable?

Appreciate any input! I will be driving a Toyota Camry beater, which is why I'm not taking the four-wheel-drive I 80 winter challenge! H. has a book project that precludes his driving with me (not to mention he swore he'd never do it again after our last cross-country jaunt.)

Like to do more than wave as I zoom past other JOMers.

All best, T.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Good evening!

Got to thinking while I was grocery shopping that the skills involved are not dissimilar to a builder in some ways. (And VERY dissimilar in others.)

I go to the store with a set budget and set menu in mind. Once there, I discover local store mark downs for a cheaper cut of meat, and then have to calculate if the extra ingredients for the dish are too expensive. Other items might be sold out. I see a sale on something I keep in my pantry. Bacon has shot up to $5.00 a pound. What can I make out of that marked down pastry dough?

On and on and on, much like a builder deals with cost overruns, shortages, etc.
It's a mental juggling act and I am not dealing with local ordinances, unions, demanding tenants, etc. PLUS I am not risking more than $10 on a poor cut of meat or forgetting the spice to make a special dish. No one will sue me and I won't go bankrupt if I goof up.

Today when I left Kroger, I was pleased to have held to my budget but mentally worn out. After one hour, not years and years of doing it.

When I was reading "The Art of the Deal," I got lost in some of the transactions because there were so many people and parcels to keep straight. Since my experience with real estate is buying a single family home, I was unaware of what all was required to put up something like Trump Tower.

Consequently, I tend to think that Trump is smarter than me in handling big projects, good at hiding what he's up to until the last minute, and very, very good at accomplishing his goals.

So, while I appreciate that Cecil isn't comfortable and wishes he could be on the inside to be certain that Trump knows what he's doing and is actually working and working intelligently, I do not have that doubt, because I read his books.

However, it doesn't matter much to me, as Hillary would have destroyed this country, and Trump was the only one listening to people like me. When you live on the edge, it's very important that the economy be good and low-lifes aren't marauding your neighborhood. Trump is determined to fix those two things, and I believe he will.

Captain Hate

I await OL's input on the impact of the elimination of the mortgage interest rates deduction because property economics are almost an oxymoron to me. I assume that would also apply to home equity loans, which would eliminate low interest lines of credit to a lot of people.

I'm not sure how much of an impact it would have in the long run because people get used to changing situations pretty quickly but by making the cost of buying a house more expensive the selling prices will be driven downward. Properties in high tax areas will have a real day of reckoning since property taxes finance schools in an 18th century concept which needs to change now.

jimmyk

The problems with capping the mortgage deduction:

1. We get screwed on both sides of the interest equation: We have to pay taxes on interest income, but can't deduct interest expenses (except as businesses). Mortgage interest is the only exception.

2. If current borrowers aren't grandfathered, they get really screwed because they borrowed on the promise of the deduction, then it gets taken away.

3. It's just more dicking around with the tax system instead of facing the real issue, which is shrinking spending and the overall size of government.

I don't think it will have that big an impact on house values, but it's just needless changing of the rules and will piss people off for no good reason.

Jack is Back!

Iggy,

Maybe in some places. But in Florida, here in the Hamptons and other sunshine states, they are going through the roof. Why?
est
The Trump effect. People old enough to retire but stymied by the economy to sell and move feel more confident and those resistent to buying (young first timers) also feel more confident.

My wife is a big time real estate investor and flipper and is in her glory years. Maybe California is an exception.

Clarice Feldman

I don't think any f the other Republicans who started the race, fully understood the media mind meld with the Dems or could figure out how to bypass it.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Tonto,

If you feel inclined, US 40 goes right through Indianapolis, and I would love to meet you.

If that looks like a place you would want to stop, let me know. I don't have any schedule conflicts next week.

Captain Hate

Miss Marple,

I think Tonto's talking about this Interstate 40 which goes way south of you:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=interstate+40&view=detailv2&&id=F75A9BA2062D14BB1F5A2419159A608A550EB17D&selectedIndex=0&ccid=M7JuTUex&simid=608028097533708532&thid=OIP.M33b26e4d47b163b221a4ff96b7332465H0

The only reason I know about that is having taken it in Arizona in October.

buccaneer morgan

So the FBI, per the mouse, says they are looking into whether santiago, had an alternate identity like hammed.

KevlarKid

Talk about "inflated value"....

Back in 1998 the housing market in the East Bay area hills was actually an auction-based market. Here in Berserkely a house would get listed and bidding up would go on for about a month until the exuberant seller would cop their profits and move to Austin Texas.

We entered that market in November 98. Fell in love with this 1600 sq foot split level cottage. It has a scenic view unrivaled on our street: Bay panoramas from Mt. Tamalpais to the Oakland skyline...both bridges, Alcatraz, Angel Island, Tiburon, SFO skyline and Coit Tower, Saus-my-lito, you name it we can see it from our front room and kitchen windows.

The highest bid came to the owners (agent told us) three months earlier at $1.3M. The owners were former Cal professors who'd moved to Cambodia to start some kind of import/export business. So the house was empty. In good repair but empty. They got cocky and turned it down.

Second bidding war later in the buying season capped at $840K with the relisting price down to $750K from the original $1M. (3 bed 2 bath).

They turned it down again.

Kev and the Mrs come to town during the house buying offseason and the same house is now on the market for $675.

It was the only home out of 40 we looked at where our then baby boy was willing to crawl around in. And the views were million dollar views.

So I did some digging about this house. Built in 1950 for $25,000 by none other than Bechtel Construction for the owners who'd listed the home.

I looked at the assessed value and made the owners an offer of 14.6 times the building price ($364,000) with 30 per cent down. They needed to sell after two years trying to get their big money payday. Might have gotten it if they weren't so grandiose and had been living in the house. But the bidness couldn't wait.

And that's how we paid them what the house was worth. Had it appraised three months after we moved in: $950,000.

Boo ya.

jimmyk

Hillary was such a profoundly flawed candidate that it is quite possible some of the other candidates could have beaten her. But don't kid yourself about one thing: They would have been attacked by the media as mercilessly as Trump was, and few of them would have fought back the way Trump did.

In any case, the presidency is only the first battle of a long war. Even if one of the others had won that battle, would they have had what it takes to keep fighting? Not clear. Cruz, probably, maybe Rubio, but not Mailman's Son or Jeb!

lyle

Two words, Tonto: stay south. Trust me on this.

Skoot

Indian Point Nuke plant just announced closing leaving 30% budget deficit in local school budget. heh, Nanny staters property taxes going up!

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Captain Hate,

Oops. I misread the post.

Oh, well, this time of year it's better to be driving the southern type routes. You never know about snow and ice.

Safe trip, Tonto!

Captain Hate

I don't think it will have that big an impact on house values, but it's just needless changing of the rules and will piss people off for no good reason.

Again, this is a sign of how immersed Ryan is in the Uniparty way of thinking to the exclusion of how it will be received in the real world. And gives the donks a complete gift which they'd love to do on their own but don't want to take the political hit.

Cecil Turner

So, while I appreciate that Cecil isn't comfortable and wishes he could be on the inside to be certain that Trump knows what he's doing and is actually working and working intelligently, I do not have that doubt, because I read his books.

Wait! I thought I wouldn't be happy no matter what he did? Have I changed my mind? Or only evolved?

How 'bout I make my arguments and you can make yours? I suspect that'd be easier all 'round.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

The evening tweet is a trip down memory lane. Right click for full picture.):

Labeled "An old picture with Nancy and Ronald Reagan."

I feel like I should point out to Cecil that Trump isn't spending the evening going through boxes of old pictures. His media people have this stuff on file, and this is a pointed reminder to certain GOPe that he knew Reagan before some of them were in politics, so they need to get with the program.

If you cant' right click because you are on an evil iPhone, here's the link to see the tweet:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/818586286034485250

henry - drunk on prog tears

Seems Ryan drank the "kill the suburbs to save the cities" elixir, a favorite of the elites.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

henry,

Ryan is just clueless. I am sorry, but this mortgage interest thing is as tone deaf as that stupid ethics thing they started out with.

The other thing he is about is getting Social Security under control by various methods which people won't like.

Just hopeless in political stuff. Hopeless.

Joan

Lyle, on your Stein comment, sad thing is she got over 600 likes. :(

Fools abound.

Joan

Stephanie, on your 3:48 comment: I wholeheartedly agree. And I hope Trump and his advisers outmaneuver the MFM and the Left. Assh*oles.

lyle

I'd like to think you're joking, Joan, but alas...

Willy

Obama won't replace George Washington Carver much less POTUS 1 Jack.

TelComs, expanding Assghanistan, repudiating nearly every near-left campaign nod and demonstrating a vanilla fudge middle of road timidity. His half-measures are classic progressive and that's not a compliment either.

But there were those Bush leaguers...

buccaneer morgan

Ryan is unpacking the entire acme toolkit, with a recommendation from wile e coyote.

Cecil Turner

It's just more dicking around with the tax system instead of facing the real issue, which is shrinking spending and the overall size of government.

Exactly correct, but AFAICT nobody is proposing it as a plan of action. This guy is an idiot, but correctly points up that cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid appear to be off the table. And military spending is slated to increase, which leaves a very small slice of the pie for cuts.

buccaneer morgan

Guts all that needs tube said about buddowsjy who I long thought wAS out duda

Joan

Sandy Daze, on your comment about the commercials. I have always enjoyed the Chick Fil-A ads with the cows. I never fail to chuckle when I see a cow parachuting into a football game carrying an 'Eat Mor Chikin' sign.

However, my husband got a shock this afternoon. I started subscribing to Family Circle magazine about a year ago, mainly because I'd be reading it at a doctor or dentist's office and see an article I liked and couldn't finish. So, on a whim I subscribed. The magazine has given him fits because of all of the ads. He complains about the ads in all magazines. Anyway, the Family Circle came and I tossed it to him. In a minute he tossed it back and said, 'Open the very first page and look,' so I did. There was a two-page Ikea spread with two men cuddling on a sofa, one black, one white, and the Ikea message read "All Homes Are Created Equal.'

Made me shiver, especially because both guys were so self-satisfied--they looked like products of Obama's America. I have mixed emotions about gay marriage, but I think the thing that gets my back up is the Left, the Democrats and the Powers that Be want to rub my nose in it. I can say for a fact that never in all of my married life did any of my married friends cuddle and kiss, and I never thought about their sex lives, wasn't interested. But the gays seem to want to parade their sexual natures (of course no worse than Madonna or that poor Miley Cyrus or Beyonce.)

Well, I guess I answered my own puzzle. Our society is now a sewer, and I'm old-fashioned. :)

Willy

Thanks for that Cecil.

That's probably not your good news, but it's mine.

Maybe he still thinks it's a ponzi, but he also noes it will be Herculean just to replace ACA, much less some half-assed SS with 'investment ' options.

DebinNC

Just saw a quick clip of Ryan leaving Trump Tower today. He walked straight to cameras and said something like, "Great meeting. Looking forward to moving the country forward in 2017, then immediately walked quickly away. I'm not sure what the posts above indicate Ryan had in mind to do in the House re mortgage deductions, but whatever it was Trump seems to have put the brakes on it imo.

Free James D!

OL @ 5:19

Ugh. It doesn't surprise me, sadly. There's no discipline, and it showed glaringly both during the game, and obviously afterwards (and before, with the morons who flew down to Miami to party).

McAdoo better get his house in order, and quick.

KevlarKid

Same-sex sodomy is mainstream now--- even in Family Circle.

But will Madison Avenue ever call anything what it truly is?

Look how they sold Lucky Strike? They are selling sodomy to mothers as a normal urge for young boys.

New show out featuring a young "trans boy" wearing a ball gag in one of the episodes.

Mainstream television! Primetime.

Oh, but it's equal to homes which teach sexual restraint, virtuous socialization and humility, service, and honesty.

Barf.

Family Circle was one of Mom's favorite sources of information. Homosexuality of any derivation used to make her sick to her stomach. She's been gone 10 years now....would be rollin over in the grave at the sight of the ad.

What is up with IKEA? Looking for those Pottery Barn shoppers?

KevlarKid

The 49ers hapless owner Jed York is taking matters into his own hands to hire a new HC.

Too bad he is in over his pointed little head. Won't seek counsel of any of the veteran legacy players of the glory years who are still around SFO (Montana, Lott, Young, Barton, et al) because he feels they are loyal to Eddie D'Bartolo. What a twink.

Anyways, York really likes Josh McDaniels up at New England for the job. He won't take it. If the Jags or Giants open up he'll be considering those both.

York needs to sell the club. He's cooked his own goose. And now he wants to create a new Bozo explosion by hiring someone of his own age group.

Insane. Doing the same things over and over.......

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