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October 30, 2017

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yep

first

2 minute duda

Give 'em hell,Bob.

henry

FBI did have the press outside with cameras warmed up.

cheerleader

Is COUNT ONE "Conspiracy Against the United States" the same as treason?

henry

since this is not in the scope of Russia and the 2016 campaign, is this a legal indictment?

danoso

I'm still all giddy Trump has a first year to cast a shadow over. Know who doesn't?

cheerleader

Trump is meeting today behind closed doors with Tillerson in the morning, then lunch with Pence and Sessions, and this afternoon behind closed doors with General Mattis.

Porchlight

If this is all they got, it's pretty much nothing as far as Trump is concerned.

Even poor Scooter Libby was actually working for Bush at the time of the "crime" and the "crime" was actually related to the original charge of the probe. Neither is true here.

RattlerGator

Wrong, Appalled. It's related to their work with and for the Podesta firm. You'll figure it out soon enough. They are not the primary target. Not even close. They are the avenue forward to the target. And the target clearly isn't Donald Trump.

* * *

I prefer to wait and see Sessions do something besides nap. Others playing Plato looking at a cave wall can amuse themselves as the see fit.

Posted by: henry | October 30, 2017 at 09:15 AM

There's the problem, henry. You think the Administration has some duty to first do things the way you want them done, to satisfy your particular demands, in a criminal prosecution. That's bizarre, of course.

But, my dear henry, you're certainly welcome to wait until hell freezes over, if that's what you require. Me? I just . . . well, look at the years of focus. Do the math.

There's no more question about what this is. The only remaining question is about how this plays out and how far they chase the money trail.

Bill and Hillary Clinton? Yep, yep. And once they trace it back to them, that will capture the wrongdoing of the Obama Administration . . . will it not ???

They pissed off the wrong guy. His name is Donald Trump. And now he's President.

You don't want to piss off the Attorney General by calling him Elmer Fudd. Just a thought.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

I have a question about these foreign bank accounts and such. Does the government just ho-hum these foreign accounts until they have a target? If Manafort and Gates were hiding millions of dollars from the US and denying they had foreign accounts, why weren't they audited and asked by the IRS to provide documentation?

It's very strange to me that he would get away with all of this until now.

Also, if he hid this money, what about The Podesta Group that he was working with?

Porchlight

Also, as I think someone here pointed out, Manafort would have never been needed by the Trump campaign if it weren't for sore losers (Cruz) in the GOPe trying to steal delegates.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

No, it's not, cheerleader.
It merely means they allege Manafort and at least one other conspired to break a law that directly pertains to the Federal government, presumably tax law.

henry

RG, the admin can do things in whatever order they want. But until they do them, I'm not going to substitute my imagination for their lack of effort.

RattlerGator

Y'all do remember this article -- right?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/23/podesta-group-now-part-of-robert-muellers-probe-in/

By Sally Persons - The Washington Times - Monday, October 23, 2017

Tony Podesta and The Podesta Group are now being investigated as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into collusion claims between the Trump campaign and Russia, NBC News reported.

The group became part of the probe after Mr. Mueller’s team looked into former Trump campaign head Paul Manafort’s finances. Mr. Podesta is the brother to John Podesta, the chairman of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, although he is not part of Mr. Mueller’s investigation at this time.

According to the report, the group was connected to a public relations campaign for a nonprofit in Ukraine called European Centre for a Modern Ukraine. Tony Podesta’s group worked on the campaign, but now Mr. Mueller’s team is looking at possible criminal activity through violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, NBC News said. The Podesta Group apparently did not filed the necessary paperwork disclosing its work in Ukraine until after it was reported in the media.

The ECMU was reportedly supported by a pro-Russia political party in the Ukraine for which Mr. Manafort worked as a consultant.

Hmmmmmmm . . . .

cheerleader

Thank you Ignatz.

Captain Hate

You don't want to piss off the Attorney General by calling him Elmer Fudd. Just a thought.

You've still got no real world events to point to. Maybe you'll have a chance in the future but it hasn't happened yet. And the way it looks to me, Mueller's ambulance chasers don't seem inclined to go down any avenues that implicate Curb Dive and her ilk.

Tom Bowler

Manafort surrendered to authorities? Where the hell was the SWAT Team?

maryrose

Cruz did not try to steal delegates., in my opinion.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/357780-nbc-terminates-mark-halperins-contract

Captain Hate

Cruz might be many things but he's not GOPe. Singer hates him a lot.

Appalled

RG:

Yep, Sessions loves him some asset forfeiture, so its best to be careful. I don't love living in a country where I have to worry whether making fun of the AG might make him mad.

When it comes to Mueller, his job requires him to indict somebody for something plausible. (That's why the special counsel stinks as an institution.) I don't think you can read anything into this pair -- which strike me as indictments that would have happened had Trump decided to stay out of politics.

Porchlight

Okay, reword - GOPers and Cruz were trying to steal delegates, hence the need for Manafort.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

maryrose,

In my opinion there was an effort to get candidates from states who don't require candidates to be bound to jump ship. There was lots of discussion about whether or not it would work in the press and media.

I believe the hiring of Manafort pretty much stopped it.

Porchlight

I don't love living in a country where I have to worry whether making fun of the AG might make him mad.

Good thing you don't live in a country like that, then.

JimNorCal

https://straightlinelogic.com/2017/10/29/the-route-is-on-by-robert-gore/
"On October 17, TheHill.com reported that the FBI, using an undercover informant, an American businessman, had substantial evidence of extortion, bribery, kickbacks and money laundering by Russian nuclear industry officials in 2009. That was well before the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) in 2010 approved the sale of a majority interest in Canadian mining company Uranium One to Russian nuclear company Rosatam. That purchase gave Rosatam control of over 20 percent of the US’s uranium reserves.

Both Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Attorney General Eric Holder sat on CFIUS. It’s conceivable Clinton didn’t know of the FBI’s investigation. Not so Holder; the FBI is part of the Department of Justice. The Clinton Foundation received donations in excess of $100 million from interested parties on both sides of the Uranium One sale. The CEO of Uranium One at the time of the sale, Frank Guistra, was a large donor and sat on the Clinton Foundation board.

Just before the sale, Bill Clinton received $500,000 from a Russian bank with ties to the Russian government for a speech in Moscow. ...

Holder’s Justice Department took four years to bring an indictment against Vadim Mikerin, who led the Russian nuclear effort in the US. There was no public notice of the Justice Department investigation. Mikerin was arrested and charged in 2014, convicted in 2015—a plea deal for one charge of money laundering—and is now in prison. The Justice Department issued an innocuous press release announcing the conviction just before Labor Day. It also required the FBI’s informant to sign a nondisclosure agreement prohibiting him from testifying before congressional committees. It appears the department wished to attract no attention to the matter."

RattlerGator

Define "real world events," CH

Tom Bowler

From the last thread,

Having these stupid games last until two is just wrong and MLB is just as contemptuous of the fans as the NFL.

I have mixed feelings, CH. I liked it when World Series games were played in the afternoon. It was as if the world slowed down for a week so that we could all take it in.

In high school guys would wear sport jackets and ties to school on game day. With a transistor radio in the inside pocket and ear plug wire running out the sleeve, we'd lean on an elbow, head propped on hand with ear plug installed and hidden from view, and we'd listen to the game during class. Hardly anybody was fooled. Looking back I have no recollection of how I passed trig.

In defense of today's game, more money for players, much of it from prime time TV, has resulted in phenomenally good baseball. It's unfortunately less of a game and more of a business.

Captain Hate

Real world events are things which happen; not this might happen or might not happen in the future.

Porchlight

Thanks so much to Iggy for that link to the Jenner photoshops - we are crying laughing here.

Porchlight

ISTM that there is a lot of discussion here at JOM about things that might happen in the future, and I daresay that henry may even have engaged in some of it.

Porchlight

Sorry, Cap'n not henry, but sort of henry too. :)

rich

>>>since this is not in the scope of Russia and the 2016 campaign, is this a legal indictment?

Posted by: henry | October 30, 2017 at 09:26 AM<<<

my question too. can the prosecutor's ability to bring charges be litigated (want to call it standing but that isn't right, jurisdiction maybe.

anyway. not seeing the ten thousand dimensional chess move here to get the Clintons and Obama administration by going after some Trump functionaries over years old foreign transactions (probably legal at the time which is why nothing was done at the time). Mueller brought these charges to get the Clinton and Obama news off the front page.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Here's my position on Mueller:

I don't know what the heck is going on.

However, the constant negativity about Sessions is starting to wear on me. We do not know what Sessions is doing, other than he has a long lunch scheduled today with the President and Vice President.

I also am reluctant to invest too much emotion on believing that this will entrap the Podestas, because I believe that we have a long way to go before their connection to Manafort is widely known and public questions are asked (which won't make it into the NYT or WaPo).

Herre's my question about this thing, though. If Manafort pulled this stuff from 2005-2015 with hidden bank accounts and money laundering and such, why wasn't it uncovered before now?

And if the US government didn't detect it until there was a Special Counsel, how was Trump supposed to know about what Manafort was up to?

henry

Sure porch, the key is to distinguish between speculation and fact.

Captain Hate

Tom Bowler, I remember that too. One of the reasons they played during the days is that October nights can get really cold; at least they have two warm weather teams competing now.

MLB tries to have it both ways by accentuating tradition while making it clear they'll do anything for additional revenue. Not having weekend games during the afternoon is inexcusable imo, particularly with the current disenchantment with the NFL.

RattlerGator

Ya might want to click through and read this thead to catch up and understand what today is all about:

⚠️Hillary Clinton's Pals, The Podesta's, Made Ads for Saudis to Influence @realDonaldTrump - Violated lobbying lawshttps://t.co/tl1zpcI7gr pic.twitter.com/VXyGIf1j32

— ςサi⃘lིlི (@chiIIum) August 12, 2017

It is a humongously long series of tweets but here's the tweet of ultimate importance for today:

David Marin, the Podesta spokesman, said his firm's work for the center was supervised by Manafort's consulting associate . . . Rick Gates.

It's okay to come up for air, people. Seriously.

[1]

The “A” and “B” lobbying firms mentioned in Paul Manafort’s indictment are:

• Mercury LLC
• The Podesta Group #ComingSoon https://t.co/cT0dIKmbsC

— ςサi⃘lིlི (@chiIIum) October 30, 2017

[2]

The center paid Mercury $720,000 and the Podesta Group $1 MILLION from 2012 to 2014.

— ςサi⃘lིlི (@chiIIum) August 12, 2017

Did those things "happen," CH? Or do they not qualify in your particular book?

The python is slowly but methodically tightening it's grip on this illegal racketeering group. The worst-case scenario right now is that Mueller freaks out at the enormity of the sedition, clears Trump, and says I'm taking my ass home.

That appears to be worst-case scenario to me. Lurker's Ledge might have a different take, of course. But that scenario still has Trump firmly in as President, midterms controlled by the #MAGA coalition, and Democrats still in total disarray having dishonest conversations with one another and blaming everyone but themselves for their demise.

I'm cool with that.

Janet 🚬

It's very strange to me that he would get away with all of this until now.

Exactly. Where were the agencies & individuals that taxpayers PAY FOR when all this was happening years ago?

Why does an Obama administration failure have anything to do with President Trump?

Every single person that lobbies for foreign entities & every single person that has offshore accounts & every single person that didn't file correct paperwork ....BETTER BE PROSECUTED.
This selective prosecution isn't okay.

rich

>>>We do not know what Sessions is doing ...<<<

he is taking his after breakfast nap.

Sue

If Mueller is going after the Clintons and Obama, the press isn't playing along. All of the headlines tie Manafort to Trump and republicans, not a single democrat. Trump is being tarred and feathered with Manafort just as Bush was Libby, even though Armitage was the person who should have been indicted, had there been a reason to indict in the first place. I hate special prosecutors. They never find what they originally looked for but always, always, always, find something, even if it is made up.

Captain Hate

And if the US government didn't detect it until there was a Special Counsel, how was Trump supposed to know about what Manafort was up to?

This is why the Constitution gets shredded by the Special Counsel being provided unlimited funds to concentrate on technical violations of a Kafkaesque set of rules that have nothing to do with discovering the suspected major crime.

Porchlight

Okay, henry, but I'm assuming RG is speculating. If negative, Ledgy speculation is allowed re: Mueller and the probe, surely positive speculation is okay too.

Personally I'm happy. Five months and Mueller has nothing relevant, plus he's showing desperation by dropping indictments in order to keep more damaging info out of the headlines. The dossier/U1 stories aren't going away, even if they are temporarily bumped.

henry

RG, note Mueller raided Manafort, not Podesta; indicted Manafort, not Podesta; let Podesta file retroactive foreign lobbyist registration. Facts so far do not distinguish between "stay clear of Podesta / anything Dem while continuing to smear Trump" and your view.

Bunky

Pardon them now.......

Appalled

henry has a point about scope. See https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/17/us/politics/document-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html

Note that the reg around scope for a special counsel is here. Rosenstein would have to approve any scope creep:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.4

RG -- If you look at Rosenstein's original letter, anything Mueller did around Hillary or others would be outside of his original assignment.

Threadkiller

Cruz's Bush years were laid out during the election as well as his TPP push.

He is very much an establishment wannabe.

Porchlight

Trump is being tarred and feathered with Manafort just as Bush was Libby

I know the media is ignoring this, but Libby actually worked for Bush at the time of his alleged perjury, and the alleged perjury was actually related to the charge of the Fitzgerald investigation.

They might pretend otherwise but this is a disappointment to the left. They were hoping for Don Jr or Kushner or even Trump himself. Instead they got a former Trump employee who worked closely on Ukraine with Hillary's campaign manager.

henry

George Papadopolous?

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/925003993952260097

henry

George P pled guilty to lying to the FBI. He's tied to Trump somehow.

Janet 🚬

But it was a-okay for Sid Blumenthal to press SoS Hillary while he had business interests in Libya.
It was a-okay for Tony Rodham, McAuliffe, & Reid to pressure for EB-5 visas for Chinese visas & cash investments.
Where's THAT money? Who got visas?
I guess that was all cool.

All the lobby businesses should just change their designation to Foundation, like the Clintons, & then they can do anything.

rich

>>>from 2012 to 2014<<<

... and this is related to the Trump campaign how exactly? if that is all the leverage the Mueller Stasi Office has they just need to close up shop and apologize for wasting everyone's time. But that isn't the Mueller Stasi Office's job-his job is the clean up crew for the bacchanal of criminality surrounding the Clinton campaign and the waning days of the Zero Administration.

There is plenty already known to bring tax and FCPA charges against the Clinton Foundation et al without the need for special counsels and other unknown unknowns.

Porchlight

11 of the 12 charges against Manafort are from 2014 or earlier. The 12th is obstruction during the investigation.

So, nothing from the time he worked for Trump or even from the election generally.

Mueller has absolutely nothing related to his charge.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

When I was still married, I had to provide the IRS with the bank account number and balance of our Barclay's account in the UK. (Of course, this doesn't cover the OTHER accounts my ex-husband had which I found out about later.)

Still, the IRS does ask.

It seems to me that Manafort, with his multiple homes and consulting work and such should have come under scrutiny for that alone. Was he ever audited? If not, why not? Was it because of the Podesta connection?

Let's haul those IRS creeps back in and ask them about it. It seems to me that the IRS admitting they targeted certain Tea Party groups during THIS SAME TIME PERIOD should also raise questions about whether or not other people and entities were protected.

henry

Seems this George P guy did have Russian contacts. https://twitter.com/MikeScarcella/status/925003224771375104

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 5m5 minutes ago

Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign. But why aren't Crooked Hillary & the Dems the focus?????

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3m3 minutes ago

....Also, there is NO COLLUSION!

Appalled

Here is what the "keep hope alive" group thinks:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/10/30/some-thoughts-on-the-manafort-indictment/

rich

>>>11 of the 12 charges against Manafort are from 2014 or earlier. The 12th is obstruction during the investigation.

So, nothing from the time he worked for Trump or even from the election generally.

Mueller has absolutely nothing related to his charge.

Posted by: Porchlight | October 30, 2017 at 10:26 AM<<<

a time machine. those wascally Russians have a time machine.

RattlerGator

I'm gonna have to back away now because my instinct is about to lead me down a road I don't want to go on this board. I'll leave with this for now.

[1]
Appalled, I suspect you know this but your point is of no importance. Mueller is setting the table for Elmer Fudd, and Elmer Fudd isn't blocked from investigating and prosecuting *any* of those matters.

[2]
With this investigation, you have to be savvy enough to see how the circular picture plays out. The Russians played a magnificent longterm game and the Clinton's knowingly played along. It may be my black pride that locks me into this next belief but . . . I believe Barack "super intellectual" Obama was just too damn stupid to comprehend how the Russians were playing him. Of course, as a Marxist, he was easy pickings.

But the investigation as of today is looking at Manafort and Gates. However, the investigatory gaze goes in both directions from there. Here's a script:

Putin/Rosatom << >> Manafort/Gates

Manafort/Gates << >> Podesta Group

Podesta Group << >> Hillary Clinton

Hillary Clinton << >> Uranium One

Uranium One << >> Putin/Rosatom

Are y'all seriously telling me y'all don't see how that works ??? If so, I give the hell up.

Captain Hate

Just to be clear, RG, I'm not your enemy on this. It's just that someone could be put into a diabetic coma from all the syrupy GOPe cheerleading here and I'm tired of pretending otherwise. I'm 100% with you on the need to drain the swamp and MAGA.

Janet 🚬

Why can the Clintons get away with not listing foreign donations/contributions to their Foundation?...
Setting up an off-site server....
Sharing classified material....

but Manafort is held to account.

Captain Hate

rich, Rove gave the Time Machine to Drumpf.

Porchlight

Also, Libby could plausibly be construed to have been covering for higher ups when he allegedly perjured himself. Again, none of this is true re: Manafort charges.

Imagine if the Libby charges were from the nineties while he was working for, say, John Podesta. That's about what we have here.

Porchlight

Trump has his own time machine. He doesn't need any shitty Rove deathtrap.

Captain Hate

Did Trump get the Warcock's hurricane machine?

Porchlight

Yes Cap'n, Harvey and Irma were planned distractions from Russia.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

--Mrs. Clinton’s campaign has repeatedly sought to yoke Mr. Trump to Mr. Putin, citing Mr. Trump’s praise for the Russian leader. And the avalanche of stories about his work for pro-Russian entities in Ukraine were becoming untenable for the campaign, according to people briefed on the discussions.--

So Hillary's campaign chair, who worked with Trump's campaign chair on behalf of Putin's Ukraine puppet, tried to yoke Trump to Putin, who Trump had no connection to, while Putin had paid Mrs Clinton millions of dollars through intermediaries to act on his behalf, something she then did.
And Comey, who shielded Hillary, engineered an SC to investigate Trump using a fake dossier paid for by the crook, Hillary, he shielded; the SC being the guy who was his boss amd BFF while they both shielded Hillary from the Russian bribery scandal.
Truth DC is stranger more corrupt than fiction.

OTOH, I guess the U1 story explains what was really on those 30,000 yoga emails that got disappeared.

matt, deplore me if you must

Manafort is just the first of the snakes in the swamp to be drained. That the charges have nothing to do with Russian collusion in the election is laughable. Ukrainians ain't Rooshians much as the media will obfuscate the point. And 2014 isn't 2016.

If 6 months of Mueller top men's work boils down to this they would seem to be coming up dry on a Trump connection.

And a conspiracy charge? Really? How do they nail that one in front of a jury? Sounds like something of a kitchen sink indictment.

Appalled

Just a warning that Manafort isn't the only bit of legal trouble announced today:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf

This seems to be a bigger deal for the Trump campaign (though, frankly, the big DJT, Jr meeting suddenly seems to make less sense)

jimmyk

If you look at Rosenstein's original letter, anything Mueller did around Hillary or others would be outside of his original assignment.

As opposed to going after Manafort for activities that had nothing to do with the 2016 campaign?

rich

since le had the meeting covered ... sure.

henry

Read that Appalled. The George P guy tried to create something, but got blown off by the campaign. I bet he was a FusionGPS plant.

maryrose

Very interesting discussion today.
Cruz has always been an outsider, ever a wannabee.
Filibuster on Obamacare got him into loads of trouble with the GOPe.
Revisionist History is always fun to engage in but is devoid of facts.

maryrose

Should be never a wannabee.

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

Why would any person talk to the FBI?
Why would any person tell such obviously debunked lies?
Nothing he is accused of lying about seems criminal.

maryrose

Jimmyk:
So true.

Natasha

"This seems to be a bigger deal for the Trump campaign"

Besides the fact that no campaign meetings resulted from that fishy sounding incident, just last week, after it was revealed the DNC may have helped fund the dossier, the media and Democrats said there was nothing wrong with digging up dirt from any sources regarding an opponent. Just normal campaign operating procedure.

maryrose

Natasha:
Very well stated!

Dave (in MA)

50 years ago the World Series went 7 games, and all of the games were played at 1:00 local time (ET or CT). Five games were played on weekday afternoons, four of which were played in Boston, so you had kids who couldn't watch because they were in school and adults who couldn't watch because they were at work. Yeah, much better. ;)

Appalled

Natasha:

Based on the facts in the indictment, I'm not sure why the guy lied to the FBI. (I can see why the FBI prosecuted -- the facts lied about are material to the subject matter of the investigation, and do suggest a pattern of the Russians trying to insinuate themselves into the Trump campaign.)

rich

he was in London at the time and flew in from there to be attested?

why don't they just arrest the typhoid Natasha since the USG let her roam around everywhere with special dispensation.

Janet 🚬

There's nothing wrong with opposition research. I would expect political parties to do it & for the news media to investigate the histories & connections of ALL candidates.

There IS a problem when accusations, lies & slander are printed in the old media as facts without verification, and when our intelligence agencies use those unverified, bogus accusations as a reason to illegally monitor only one political candidate. Especially if the bogus accusations were FED to the media & the intel agencies by the opposing candidate/party.

rich

if that is the case then why didn't the USG expel the Russian lady lawyer and warn the Trump Campaign that there was a serious intelligence effort by the Russians to disrupt his campaign?

the conduct in the GP indictment was in March and April-in London-conducted over email.

James D.

Personally I'm happy. Five months and Mueller has nothing relevant

I’m not. People who worked for President Trump and helped him get elected are being forced to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend themselves against bogus, irrevelant charges, and having their lives publicly ripped apart, all thanks to a corrupt witch hunt that was allowed to happen because AG Sessions got played like a mark at a three-card-month game.

Meanwhile, Democrats who committed actual crimes - openly, unapologetically, PROUDLY committed them, are allowed to sit back and watch without any fear of their crimes being investigated, let alone prosecuted.

There’s nothing about that that makes me remotely happy.

Clarice Feldman

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/paul-manafort-rick-gates-told-surrender-special-prosecutor-probe-n815536

narciso

After Libby, I'm not buying the statement until I see the transcript, remember when they got that fbi contractor to take the fall for the Brennan leak.

Threadkiller

Cruz has always been an outsider, [n]ever a wannabee.

Wrong.

You are ignoring how Cruz stepped into politics, what he did during his rise, and his voting record that clarifies what he is despite his grandstanding speeches.

I suggest that we dissagre to agree until you do more research on Ted.

JimNorCal

h/t BJG
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/10/29/eagles-safety-malcom-jenkins-says-owners-players-meeting-canceled/
Philadelphia Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins says the next proposed meeting between the owners and players to discuss social justice initiatives has been canceled.
“The league didn’t accept our invitation,” Jenkins said after the Eagles win over the 49ers.

Possibly owners were shampooing their hair that day?

Clarice Feldman

Someone said the indictment also accuses Manafort of perjury. Is that so? I've been tied up this morning and haven't read thru it. If so, that means they do not intend to use him to testify against Trump.

narciso

Even though he clearly did not have the access to know the identity of mi 6 double agent.

rich

reads as if the dude was being sandbagged too. an FBI sting, with the help of the bobbies in London, which got a marginally attached campaign operative.

windansea

Re Papadopoulos

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaign-emails-show-aides-repeated-efforts-to-set-up-russia-meetings/2017/08/14/54d08da6-7dc2-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.1d8a27657002

Threadkiller

I heard a controversy on the radio this morning. Apparently the pitchers from both teams are complaining that the official World Series baseballs are made out of a different material than the regular season balls.

They have a much more slick surface that disallows control of the spin.

The reporter failed to make the connection to how this series has become a hitter's paradise.

#Scam

Janet 🚬

The indictment - https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4163389-Manafort-Gates-Indictment-Filed-and-Redacted.html

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

Did Manafort testify under oath somewhere to be accused of perjury?

Again though I have to ask this question of someone like Papadopoulas...WHY WOULD ANYONE TALK TO THE FBI?
Had he simply said 'no' he would be in the clear. Did he not have an attorney, or even some babbling toddler, who would presumably have the sense to tell him Shut. The. F. Up?
Bizarre.

Of course the same goes for top lawyer Scooter Libby. If you truly believe you did nothing wrong and you start babbling you are taking the wrong side of a form of Pascal's wager. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose if they have nothing but your words to convict you. No words; no problem.

Captain Hate

Whenever some of the AoS GOPe apologists start dumping on Manafort for being a swamp creature, it gets me twitching. Assuming that what they're saying is correct, DJT as an outsider candidate needed his help for something in his campaign and I assume that was effectively provided. And now he's being prosecuted for something that would've gone unnoticed otherwise.

How easy will it be for a future outsider to find any insider to help him or her out after this?

henry

0Hour1 says McCain was working with Podesta/Manafort in the time frame covered by the indictment.

https://twitter.com/__0hour1_/status/925001983764901888

Janet 🚬

How easy will it be for a future outsider to find any insider to help him or her out after this?

Exactly. Message sent.

simply simon

Last Friday, I said that it seemed that this whole affair seemed like a mash up of the Sting and Trading places with the dossier being the orange juice report and the whole Trump side luring the Uranium one participants in with the sheer idiocy of the allegations in the dossier. Imagine Comey telling Trump on January 6, 2017 you are under investigation based on a dossier that says you urinated on a Hotel bed in Moscow . What does that say of our intelligence agencies and they were complaining that Trump was not attending daily briefings. With that kind of mush why should he.

Appalled

In the "coincidence" department -- Manafort was raided on July 26. Mr. P was arrested at Dulles on July 27 (after, I would expect, some negotiation about the testimony he might be able to offer).

derwill

Given that Manafort's crimes were committed before the campaign and election and while he worked the Podesta Group, on the surface it sure looks to me like the Podestas have a lot more reason to be worried this morning than Trump does.

Especially since Trump fired Manafort when his ties to the Ukraine pro-Russia faction became known, and that story was widely reported on by the MSM at the time.

Trump isn't going to pardon Manafort, nor should he. Nor is Trump going to be impeached over crimes Manafort committed while he worked for the Podesta Group. No way are the Dems going to want to open up that can of worms.

Any leverage Manafort has for a plea deal is going to come at the expense of the Podesta Group. For instance--this money laundering? Whose money was he laundering? His own, or the Podesta Group's? If it was his own--who paid it to him and why? While we're at it--given the close ties of the Podestas to Hillary Clinton--how much influence did this pro-Russian Ukrainian group have over Hillary while she was SoS?

Beyond the fact that the MSM can attach the words "Trump's former campaign manager" to any story, to me this looks way worse for the Dems and Hillary than for Trump.

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Wilson/Plame