Powered by TypePad

« Krugman On A Limb | Main | Oil-For-Food Congressional Hearing »

April 21, 2004


arthur in new orleans

Here's a curious anolamy. Kerry's Bronze Star citation was signed by John Lehman, Secretary of the Navy...under Ronald Reagan! The text formatting also suggests a more recent origin for this document. It's fully justified, rather than ragged-right. Typewriters of the late 1960s simply couldn't do that. Was it word-processed in more ways than one? See pdf. on Kerry's Web site.

Patrick R. Sullivan

"He took Super-8 home movies there in which he staged heroics in full-battle dress, so that later he might use them for campaign ads."

More attention should be paid to this. He returned to the scene of action where he won his Silver Star, beached his boat--which could be heard two miles ahead--exposing it and his men to any VC that came along. They knew that it had been a VC camp at one time, yet the movie shows Kerry strolling along, handling his weapon as though it was his 7 iron on a golf course. Weird.


I think more attention should be paid to Bush's drug abuse back in the day. And why do people 'find' Jesus? Because they'd go crazy otherwise. Bush's adaptibility problem (read: exudes certainty) is just another defense mechanism for not facing reality.

"Intelligent, mature and rich in educational background and experience, Ens Kerry is one of the finest young officers I have ever met and without question one of the most promising," wrote Capt. Allen Slifer, Kerry's supervisor aboard the USS Gridley

Man, this controversy is gonna kill Kerry. Please someone make it stop!


I agree with you Tom.
Kerry asking to leave Vietnam was a pussilanimous disgusting move.
Certainly this shows that Kerry is coward of the worst kind.
You on the other hand...


I mssed your segue, Willie - has the Times reporting satisifed you that his departure was "the custom"? Do you think "he was ordered" back, or do you think he requested reassignment?

Or maybe, since he did get decorated for bravery, anything the Times says about Kerry's Vietnam experience is true, and anyone who questions it must believe Kerry is a gutless coward?

Thanks for sharing the insight.


Didn't mean to offend man. Just some friendly snark.

I do think that it's odd that in an article detailing the man's distinguished millitary service you claim the Times gave his carreer a "burnishing". Implying, of course, that his carreer wasn't quite as splendid as they make it seem; and by extention that you are qualified to say so. Look, I would never vote for Bob Dole. I've even been known to make the occasional viagra joke. But, I unlike you, lack the cojones to question his service record.

Also do you realize what you're debating:
wether it was customary for sailors to be shipped home after 3 purple hearts?! What's that suppossed to accomplish really? If the answer is no, what then? Show middle America how terrible the NY Times is. How is this supposed to reflect on Kerry's character? I'm assuming there was a point to the pedantry.

Look, I'm sorry if I offended you. But seriously, think for a second about your post and ask yourself if you aren't being just a little ridiculous.


I don't have any problem with Kerry's record - the guy did volunteer and get shot at.

My problem is that the Times, at least twice now, is overstating it, which hardly seems necessary. On that point, I thought the Hayes conclusion was quite good:

Clearly, combat experience is not a prerequisite for a successful presidency. But in our current world environment, it wouldn't hurt, and Kerry will certainly be making this case during the campaign. As the voters consider their choices in November, they should try -- difficult as it might be -- to cut through all the campaign hype to get to the hard facts.

With regard to John Kerry and Vietnam, he saw real combat, and no one should diminish his service. By the same token, no one should make it out to be more than it was.


I don't have any problem with Kerry's record

Well you sure fooled me.

By the same token, no one should make it out to be more than it was.

Jeez man. Is your personal dislike for Kerry really making you this tone deaf.
Look, I'm a 24 year old who's never raised a child. What if I said, "Raising a child is an important task. But let's not make it out to be more important than it really is."
Tell me your reaction to that wouldn't be "what a dick!"


This post/'story' is more 'tribble' than 'dick' as we used to say in the Texas Air National Guard where Bush 'served' his country. Keep digging, maybe you'll find China.

On a lighter note:
Rumsfeld told reporters at a briefing yesterday that he may have used the phrase "take that to the bank" but that no final decision had been made to go to war.

"To my knowledge, a decision had not been taken by the president to go to war at that meeting," Rumsfeld said. "There was certainly nothing I said that should have suggested that, and any suggestion to the contrary would not be accurate."

'TAKE IT TO THE BANK' -- he must have been talking about Lincoln Savings and Loan.



What if I said, "Raising a child is an important task. But let's not make it out to be more important than it really is."

I'm lost. Your position is that any exaggeration the Times makes of Kerry's military is OK (even beyond question), since his record is fundamentally admirable?

In four years, the Times may write "Hillary both bore and raised a child, which her (presumably male, possibly gay) Republican opponent can not claim to have done. No task is more important, and therefore we ought to elect her as our next President."

I'll accept that emotionally you may approve of their conclusion, but intellectually, would you approve of their logic? If someone said, the Times is spewing nonsense on Hillary, would you call them a dick?


Sounds to me like Mr. Hayes is a 'malcontent' and disgruntled' former associate of Mr. Kerry's (or insert other adjectives applied to the dozens of former Bush administration officials who have criticized the administration).

The 'custom' mentioned are NAVY RULES.

"All three wounds were minor" -- when and where did Hayes get his medical degree?

Here is your poor / slanted statement: "...Galvin said all three of his Purple Hearts were the result of shrapnel or glass shards. Such minor injuries were common on PCF boats with their glass windows and thin metal hulls, and, like Kerry's, Galvin's injuries were not serious enough to take him out of combat for more than a few days.

Point 1: Galvan's wounds may have been much less serious than Kerry's; all shrapnel wounds are not equal.

Point 2: Many shrapnel wounds KILL (ever heard of "cluster bombs"?).

Point3: As shrapnel, glass can be as deadly as metal.

Point 3: "Such minor wounds" -- huge leap here; ALL schrapnel wounds are 'minor'? No, see point 1.

Here's the actual history:

December, 1967:
Kerry is assigned as an Ensign to the guided-missile frigate USS Gridley. After five-months aboard, he returns to San Diego to undergo training to command a Swift boat, used by the Navy for patrols in Vietnam.

June, 1968:
Kerry is promoted to Lieutenant.

November 17, 1968:
Kerry arrives in Vietnam, where he is given command of Swift boat No. 44, operating in the Mekong Delta.

December 2, 1968:
Kerry gets his first taste of intense combat, and is wounded in the arm. He is awarded a Purple Heart.

January, 1969:
Kerry takes command of a new Swift boat, completing 18 missions over 48 days, almost all in the Mekong Delta area.

February 20, 1969:
Kerry is wounded again, taking shrapnel in the left thigh, after a gunboat battle. He is awarded a second Purple Heart.

February 28, 1969:
Kerry and his boat crew, coming under attack while patroling in the Mekong Delta, decide to counterattack. In the middle of the ensuing firefight, Kerry leaves his boat, pursues a Viet Cong fighter into a small hut, kills him, and retreives a rocket launcher. He is awarded a Silver Star.

March 13, 1969:
A mine detonates near Kerry's boat, wounding him in the right arm. He is awarded a third Purple Heart. He is also awarded a Bronze Star for pulling a crew member, who had fallen overboard, back on the boat amidst a firefight.

April, 1969:
According to Navy rules, sailors that have been wounded three times in combat are eligible to be transfered to the U.S. for noncombat DUTY. Kerry is transferred to desk duty in Brooklyn, NY.

January 3, 1970:
Kerry requests that he be discharged early from the Navy so that he can run for Congress in Massachusetts' Third District. The request is granted, and Kerry begins his first political campaign. (Bush requested early release from the 'Pansy' guard unit he was with to 'help' in a political champaign.)

KERRY risked his life for his country, period. He ENLISTED. He could have called someone and probably have gotten national guard unit duty in with 7 Dalas Cowboys and 2 other Senator's sons and trained to fly obsolete planes like Bush, but he was more manly and honorable than that.

capt joe

Kerry applied for swift boats went their mission was sitting miles offshore. Just after he transferred, the mission tasking for the swifts was changed for the more dangerous one. I bet Kerry musta crapped himself after that happened.

Reading how Kerry turned light abrasions into purple hearts was instructive. All in all, I should have applied for purple hearts for my razor cuts. I could have been a full bird colonel before I left. ;)


Capt Joe :
Yes, the swift boats were changed, so what? It was a stupid idea, by the way.

And you were never there, so don't get sassy, missy.


Kerry applied for swift boats went their mission was sitting miles offshore. Just after he transferred, the mission tasking for the swifts was changed for the more dangerous one. I bet Kerry musta crapped himself after that happened.

Yet he still had the courage to rescue a fallen comrade under enemy fire as well as lead multiple successful strikes against the enemy in the face of an ambush.
The Republican Party:
Belittling heroism is what we do.


From the Nedra Pickler piece about the military records:
"According to a naval instruction document provided by Kerry's campaign, anyone serving in Vietnam who was wounded three times, regardless of the nature of the wound or treatment required, "will not be ordered to service in Vietnam and contiguous waters."

Sounds like an automatic transfer to me. So is Rush's fave AP reporter also part of the evil liberal conspiracy to burnish Kerry's war record?

The comments to this entry are closed.