Who Is Duncan Black?

Not the economic historian (but we wonder...).

I'm talking about the Duncan B. Black formerly known as Atrios.

I can't say I care, but...

It turns out that Mr. Black works at Media Matters, the new David Brock media watchdog group, which is kind of interesting - he is doing paid media commentary on one site, and a lot of anonymous media criticism on the other... and I'm still not that concerned. Yes, there is the potential for a self-serving echo-chamber effect, but what else is new in the wild, wild blogosphere. Maybe I would care if I could take the Brock group seriously.

But by odd coincidence, I actually bumped into a Brocker just yesterday while gawking at the coverage of the Theresa Heinz Kerry "shove it" incident. Oliver Willis had a factually deficient post at his personal site which has now become a factually deficient article (with four authors!) at the Mind Over Media Matters site [make that two factually deficient articles]. I strongly encourage anyone who thought this group might be serious to study this (and there is more snide commentary here).

So that's where Atrios is working. Pretty impressive.

MORE: I am begging myself to take my own advice and ignore these jokers, but my eye was drawn to this, and this, on the question of whether the Sudan offered Bin Laden to the US.

Unless I am misreading this, the Brockers are saying that the only evidence for the story is a Newsmax article describing a Bill Clinton speech in 2002, and a few comments Clinton made when asked about that speech. I'm hanging my hat on this excerpt when I say that:

Hannity "thrice repeated the false claim that former President Bill Clinton refused a 1996 offer from the Sudan to handover Osama bin Laden to the United States," a claim originating in an August 11, 2002, article by the right-wing website NewsMax.com that distorted a 2002 Clinton speech.

Gee. Get a subscription to Google, gents - here is a WaPo story (2001), a Vanity Fair article from Jan 2002 (and denials thereto), links to other sources here (July 2002), Madeleine Albright's denial to the 9/11 Commission (p. 13); gosh, here is a whole post.

If the Brockers seriously think the only source for this story is a Newsmax article, well, good night. Or maybe they want to pretend that, since none of these other stories explicitly say that Clinton himself knew about the idea, Newsmax is the only "real" source for that specific detail. I am not inclined to engage that level of disingenuousness - maybe Clinton knew, and changed his story; maybe Hannity used "Clinton" as shorthand for "the Clinton Administration". Whatever. Phony. Now, I am taking my advice.

UPDATE: I am taking my advice, but not yet! Susan Rice, adviser to the Kerry Campaign, rides to my side (well, not on purpose...)

Comments

[HH]

Unless the ex-US ambassador to the Sudan is a Sudanese official, they can't even get that part right.

[Robert Crawford]

Clinton mentioned the deal himself in a speech a couple of years ago. Although I guess Clinton's not exactly the most trustworthy source...

[TC-LeatherPenguin]

I love when I read things like "Hannity thrice repeated ... an article by..."
Hannity has the audio from Clinton's speech. He doesn't quote the NewsMax article, he rolls the tape and let's you hear the claim come straight out of Bubba's mouth.

[Slartibartfast]

I've confronted Atrios once or twice with factual errors; he seems to be quite comfortable with them. I don't think anything you might tell me about him would surprise me; unsurprising what you wrote, and also unsurprising if he turned out to be a right-wing plant. I've got orchids that are more intelligent, or at least they make a better argument.

[Angus Jung]

"I've got orchids that are more intelligent, or at least they make a better argument."

I'll have what he's smoking!

[Jon Henke]

Say, Tom, can we start calling him "Oliver Ruddy"?

[WillieSytle]

Dude, I don't think "I don't care" means what you think it means.

[bender]

ghost wars pretty much publicised the information in the form of a well documented book.

its not a suprise to me at all.

it appears that they got their facts straight too - I wonder if any of the deniers have bothered to read that book?

[HH]

I remember Ricky West's challenge to Atrios which he flunked... then Andrew Sullivan's challenge which he flunked.

[Rob Read]

The Big Lie is the creation of the hard left. Now they've just diversified into lots of little lies!

[Crank]

Baseball great Lou Brock used to market "Brock-a-brellas," umbrella hats you could wear on your head. Not a great commercial success, I should add.

I actually think the mental image of Atrios and Oliver Willis sitting around wearing their tinfoil-lined Brock-a-brellas is a fitting one.

[Dave]

Here are some ratings of his from his student at UC Irvine.

http://ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=168170

[Slartibartfast]

Funny that the last three ratings were right after the Atrios identity became widely known.

[Sigivald]

Bender: What book, denying what? Give specifics... and, of course, why a book should take precedence over all the other claims made at the time.

Certainly books are not automatically correct (see Joe Wilson).

[Forbes]

Sigvald--It's "Ghost Wars" by Steve Coll, now managing editor of the WaPo. Subtitled: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001. A good read. Less impressive/thorough about bin Laden than the subtitle suggests. Mostly CIA,and Pakistan/Saudi involvment in Afghanistan. A few side trips with bin Laden and his travels in parallel with the Afghan story. Some of the "revealing" info in the media re: 9/11 commission were already reported therein. Worthwhile read if you're interested in good background. (I only picked up on two minor mistakes--it's mostly reporting, not asserting.)

["Walter Cronkite"]

I note that Atrios has not addressed this on his Eschaton blog. Since I have been blocked from commenting there (crushing my dissent!), I invite others to post remarks regarding Duncan Black in the comments there.

[RW]

Teresa Kerry would have trouble paying me enough to wade into the cesspool of eschaton's comments sections. Methinks time would be better spent hammering nails into my scrotum while reading Democratic Underground out loud to a tribe of deaf-mutes in hopes of bringing rain to the Sahara desert.

[sol]

And if the deaf-mutes turned out to be naked female Venusians more beautiful than any Earthly woman times 1000 from another time dimension/cosmos who could give you sexual pleasure times 1000 anything any human has ever experienced?

I know, this is all logically messed-up...

[TM]

Yeah, but don't stop now...

[Brian]

I have to wonder, does anyone think Hannity is just a little wrong to act like this was such a black and white situation? He makes it seem like Sandy Berger walked into the Oval Office, told Clinton about the offer, and then walked out after Clinton said "no" and went back to doing a crossword puzzle. Nobody in his right mind thinks of the situation that way, but that's the way Sean Hannity wants to present the situation. It's simpleminded and highly deceptive, but why I expect anything more from this guy is beyond me.

[sophy]

Welcome to our game world, my friend asks me to buy some 12sky gold .