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September 06, 2004



I doubt that McCain will react. If he cared about his reputation he would not have supported Kerry's repeated denunciations of Vietnam veterans.


Are you sure that's still up at Team Kerry? I think they might have down the amazing-disappearing-never-existed-AP-story deletion with it.


To be fair to Kerry-Edwards, they did say these were "Lies, Mischaracterizations, Distortions, And Half-Truths."

Since this did come under the banner "Bush Has Done A Good Job With Our Allies", the most likely offending passage must be "as we've been a good friend to other countries in moments of shared perils, so we have good reason to expect their solidarity with us in this struggle."
I presume that Kerry feels we have treated "other countries" badly. This would seem to indicate at least some level of "hate America first" or Kerry is hung up on the French and Germans again.

This is getting a bit tiresome, so I have to ask .. did Teresa have any investments that were impacted badly by the Bush Administration going to war in Iraq ?
I hope so, because the alternate reasoning for Kerry to object to this statement by Sen. McCain (America is wrong, but I can save America from itself) would, in my judgment, render John Kerry seemingly dangerously unfit to be President.


Well, I did quote the "lies, mischaracterization, etc." in my post, since I did not want to suggest that I would stoop to doing any of those things. Whether St. John will parse it as carefully is up to him.

And I don't care if McCain doesn't object - I just don't expect to see him support Kerry against the Swiftees quite as quickly.

Bill Arnold

This looks (looked, it's gone now) like a mistake; even a partisan democrat news junkie (e.g. me) would have a hard time filling in all the justifications. I have to guess that there were explanatory paragraphs for each numbered section, that somehow got dropped?

The argument for #10 is probably that the Bush administration did not, in fact, competently engage its friends, that (for instance) allowing Rumsfield to shoot his mouth off about Old Europe (and similar dissing of potential allies) might have cost American taxpayers 10s billions of dollars and perhaps cost the lives of American soldiers (rather than French or German or other non-American soldiers. If not in the invasion, then in the occupation, and in the (ehem) "post-occupation").

It's hard to parse McCain's statement as disagreeing with that, though.

Fredrik Nyman

Looks like the Kerry folks have disappeared the release. What did it say? Specifically, what was the context? "Lies and the lying liars that tell them"?

Rob Bernard

For context I have the full text on my site. (http://www.robbernard.com/archives/001436.html) The only difference between the text in my blockquote and the actual release is that the Kerry site had the title "The 2004 GOP Convention: Four Days Filled With Lies, Mischaracterizations, Distortions, And Half-Truths" before "For Immediate Release" and the headers for each section were bolded.


If you click the link in your post, the story does not appear on the Kerry website. Either you may have typed the link wrong, or they may have...removed the article?!?


Looks like they pulled it, the same link is on Powerline and it's broken too.

John Behan - Commonwealth Conservative

Boy, he's really going off the deep end, isn't he? It wasn't that long ago that Kerry thought McCain was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Now he's a liar like everyone else who's saying all these mean things about Kerry!



"allowing Rumsfield to shoot his mouth off about Old Europe (and similar dissing of potential allies) might have cost American taxpayers 10s billions of dollars and perhaps cost the lives of American soldiers (rather than French or German or other non-American soldiers..."

Bob A., that presumes there was a chance in hell that France or Germany would have participated. Nice conceit, but never gonna happen. Even if each did not have significant business ties to Saddam which they did not want revealed (and they did), France's megalomania, about being the leader of a vigorous, powerful EU which will be the equal to the US, will NEVER let it cooperate with us. But it will be entertaining, now that there will be no US presence "oppressing" Europe, to see how long it takes for the Germans to decide they really would like their French pals to give them that lovely Alsace-Lorraine.

"..or they may have...removed the article!?"

Jason, that is exactly what Team Kerry did. Just like the AP with the Bogus Booing Story. No biggie; it's only like lying to the world.


Page Not Found
You have requested a page that does not exist. Check the Web address (URL) that you entered or search this site.
Search For:

Match: Any word All words Exact phrase
Sound-alike matching

This found at the McCain link at 10:03 PM Eastern.


Diggers Realm fortunately backed up the Kerry page, you can find it here: http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/static/JohnKerryFourDaysFilledWithLies.htm

Jim Glass

Krugman is really nasty to people who pull web pages without admitting they did or why.

What until he gets on top of this!


Boy that reorg at the top of Kerry's campaign is really paying off. They are really on message and are only having to pull down about 5 pages a week from the website.

John Sasso and the other John's have a new strategy. They post some anti-Bush claim, the web fact checks them and calls them on it and they are forced to take it down. It's a lousy campaign strategy, but look at the pageviews they are generating!

Jack Stephens

The Kerry campaign appears to have taken down the page.


Seems like, at the Kerry campaign, the left hand doesn't know what the other left hand is doing...


Hey, Mr Kerry himself has volunteered to clarify this page-pulling situation thing.

In an in-depth interview to the NYT (surprised?), reported by AP (who else?) he's reported to have said
" I put the page down before I put the page down"

Kenneth Kruger

The press release is down, but the trail is obvious:

On September 3rd, the four press releases (see links at the Kerry site)are numbered:


On September 4th the two releases are:


On September 6th the three releases are:


But on September 5th we have:


The second press release of the day, the one linked to above, has now disappeared.

Bill Arnold

Jumbo, re "that presumes there was a chance in hell that France or Germany would have participated. Nice conceit, but never gonna happen." They probably wouldn't have helped in the invasion (it being a war of choice, at least arguably, and Europe post WW2 is shyer about such things), but perhaps they would have helped in the occupation/post-occupation, which is where our losses are happening. But we'll never know... What purpose, exactly, did Rumsfield et al's dissing of Old Europe serve? (I'm really asking, btw. I've never heard it defended as being good, just as probably being neutral.)


Another item the Kerry camp has lost in its deletes is their points, one of which making fun of Zell Miller's accent. The true colors come out when the heat is up - which one is the hateful party of bigotry and anger?


I found a cache of the Press Release flipper tried to hide.

You can still see it here http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/static/JohnKerryFourDaysFilledWithLies.htm

Btw, doesn't he look like a character on the twighlight zone? getting older, crazier, more demented..... any second now and he's going to melt into a plague. or a pile of ashes.


Two things...

1) He put it up before he AP'd it (see http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/001317.html ), actually, this apparantly happened several times...

2) I saw a quickie comment I love about this...
Kery for President, a 404 campaign.


"What purpose, exactly, did Rumsfield et al's dissing of Old Europe serve?"
It put a finger in the eye of France and Germany who were putting heat on the eastern European members of the coalition who were being told "to shutup." This was something that they, pratically speaking, could not do themselves without risking their upcoming EU memberships. Think of it as a helpful hand; Kerry would call it a "bribe."


Bill Arnold: the problem is that your stance pre-supposes that all the difficulties are on the American side. If this is true, then our only foreign policy answer is to do whatever France or Germany or whoever want. Is this what you are saying? On the other hand, if the difficulties are on both sides (and not necessarily evenly distributed), then answers must involve effort on their part, too. Where is Kerry's criticism of France's and Germany's missteps? Does he have any? Does he make any suggestions on what they could have done better so the US could have responded more appropriately?

(Maybe he could cite Chirac, and point out the various points at which they "missed a good chance to shut up.")


The two Kerry campaign factions will be fighting like scorpions in a bottle. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people.

Bill Arnold

J, thanks, "the finger in the France's eye" argument at least makes a little sense. Though I still do not understand how it could have been expected to affect the EU admission votes in a positive way. Are you suggesting that if we hadn't dissed Old Europe that the coalition of the willing (and the somewhat different coalition willing to take part in the occupation) would have been smaller?

I don't follow this argument. I saw it as a foreign policy dispute between friendly countries, about participation in a war of choice. (Arguably at least, and very arguably in retrospect. Please note, I'm not arguing here that the choice we the US made was good or bad.)

Kerry could/should be criticizing Old Europe for not forgiving the finger in the eye and taking part in the occupation/post-occupation. (What are we calling the presence of 130K US troops in Iraq these days, anyway?) Perhaps Kerry is already doing this, if not he should.
France in particular has troops engaged all over the world. (e.g. troops in Kabul)


If you were Kerry and knew Hillary was eyeing the Presidency in 2008 would you be bringing Clinton staffers on board?


Google cache of the original press release -


Trying again here...



Bill: England is our ally; France is just not an enemy.

And I think Rummy was putting the word out that the US is not going to reward an anti-American policy. I think it's kind of neat to think of American air bases and supply depots going up about 500 miles east of Berlin.

Cecil Turner

"What purpose, exactly, did Rumsfield et al's dissing of Old Europe serve?"

That assumes "dissing" is a fair characterization, and I don't think it is. The quote in context was a response to a reporter's question with a dubious assertion:

"Sir, a question about the mood among European allies. . . . If you look at, for example, France, Germany . . . it seems that a lot of Europeans rather give the benefit of the doubt to Saddam Hussein than President George Bush. These are U.S. allies. What do you make of that?"
Rumsfeld's response is on point, and he correctly objects to generalizing German and French reaction to all of the European allies:
"Now, you're thinking of Europe as Germany and France. I don't. I think that's old Europe. If you look at the entire NATO Europe today, the center of gravity is shifting to the east. And there are a lot of new members."
The point is not that France and Germany are "old," but that with EU and NATO expansion, the European alliance is now rather larger, and the attitudes among members is not uniform. His statement was correct, and a fair reading suggests one would need a very thin skin to construe an insult.

As to France being "friendly," there's little evidence to suggest an altruistic motive to help the US, especially in an exercise of power. In fact, French diplomatic efforts have been geared more toward competition for several years. For example, from 1999:

"Once a world power, French influence is overshadowed by Hollywood, McDonalds, the US economy - and Washington's military muscle. Jospin, President Jacques Chirac and Foreign Minister Hubert Vedrine have in the last month repeatedly condemned US ''hyperpower'' and stressed the importance of a multi-polar world."

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