So Often I Find Myself Wondering...

So often I find myself wondering - is this true, or was it just something reported by the Associated Press?

Glenn and the Hindrocket are booing the AP coverage of a Bush rally in Wisconsin, and their boos are the real thing.

Meanwhile, the AP does a bit of historical sleuthing, and delivers the real dirt on Arnold's speech to the Republican convention:

Austrian historians are challenging California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger for telling the Republican National Convention that he saw Soviet tanks in his homeland as a child...

...Recalling that the Soviets once occupied part of Austria in the aftermath of World War II, Schwarzenegger told the convention on Tuesday: "I saw tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes."

Historians, however, are questioning Schwarzenegger's version of postwar history -- if not his enduring popularity among Austrians who admire him for rising from a penniless immigrant to the highest official in America's most populous state.

"It's a fact -- as a child he could not have seen a Soviet tank in Styria," the southeastern province where Schwarzenegger was born and raised, historian Stefan Karner told the Vienna newspaper Kurier.

Schwarzenegger, now a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born on July 30, 1947, when Styria and the neighboring province of Carinthia belonged to the British zone. At the time, postwar Austria was occupied by the four wartime allies, which also included the United States, the Soviet Union and France.

The Soviets already had left Styria in July 1945, less than three months after the end of the war, Karner noted.

Oh, they nailed that lying, crooked Republican all right, didn't they! HAH!

Patient readers who have burrowed this far into the AP coverage do get to read a response from the Schwarzenegger side:

Margita Thompson, spokeswoman for Schwarzenegger, defended Schwarzenegger's speech.

"Never in there did the governor reference that the tanks were where he grew up. It was a reference to visiting Soviet-occupied Austria," she said.

Well, no kidding. But does she seriously think that mere facts, or words, are relevant? Matt Yglesisas already explained this - Schwarzenegger was "misleading-without-lying" in the sense that someone, somewhere, might have misunderstood him. Thank heaven for the AP.

Now, for those who prefer a slightly stronger bond with reality, here is what Arnold actually said:

When I was a boy, the Soviets occupied part of Austria. I saw their tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes. I remember the fear we had when we had to cross into the Soviet sector. Growing up, we were told, "Don't look the soldiers in the eye. Look straight ahead." It was a common belief that Soviet soldiers could take a man out of his own car and ship him off to the Soviet Union as slave labor.

My family didn't have a car -- but one day we were in my uncle's car. It was near dark as we came to a Soviet checkpoint. I was a little boy, I wasn't an action hero back then, and I remember how scared I was that the soldiers would pull my father or my uncle out of the car and I'd never see him again. My family and so many others lived in fear of the Soviet boot. Today, the world no longer fears the Soviet Union and it is because of the United States of America!

MORE: The PrestoPundit rides tall in defense of Arnold - his enemies flee before him and we hear the lamentations of their women.

Matt Y claims vindication, with an "absurdity loves company" defense; Memeorandum rounds up the Arnold story; and more from Memeorandum on the "who booed".

Now, call me a liar, but I too have memories of communism, and memories of passing Checkpoint Charlie and crossing into East Berlin. Incredible! And since I grew up in New Jersey, I must be lying. Except for that trip I took in High School, of course...

Comments

[The Kid]

Darn, darn, darn! If only the AP had a better track record, the Kerry campaign could work on how to respond to something like this:

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - The United States and its allies have moved closer to capturing Osama bin Laden in the last two months, a top U.S. counterterrorism official said in a television interview broadcast Saturday.

"If he has a watch, he should be looking at it because the clock is ticking. He will be caught," Joseph Cofer Black, the U.S. State Department coordinator for counterterrorism, told private Geo television network.
[Snip]
"What I tell people, I would be surprised but not necessarily shocked if we wake up tomorrow and he's been caught along with all his lieutenants. That can happen because of the programs and infrastructure in place," he told Geo.

I’m sure the campaign is prepared for all manner of October surprises, but if the capture did happen tomorrow, it would be a September surprise, no? Would Kedwards have to wait to respond until October?.

Or should we simple chuckle and say, “Oh, that AP! Another hoot.”?

[Jim Glass]

"I too have memories of communism, and memories of passing Checkpoint Charlie and crossing into East Berlin. Incredible! And since I grew up in New Jersey, I must be lying."

~~~
Yup, I with my own eyes saw Soviet tanks crush through a nation and over its people, literally I am afraid -- while I was a resident of NY. So how could Ahnuld possibly have been familiar with the Soviets next door as a native in immediately post-WWII central Europe? ;-)

I dunno, but wouldn't it be more constructive towards winning the election if Atrios and such folk spent more of their time giving solid reasons why people should vote *for* Kerry, instead of just calling Repubs liars at every opportunity real or imagined?

Well, maybe not, perhaps they know their situation best of all.

[Thomas W. Briggs]

I was born in the US in 1956 and even I saw first hand exactly what Arnold saw. In 1978, I crossed over into East Berlin at "Checkpoint Charlie" (fastest because Germans weren't alowed to cross there so no lines), and even then it was pretty scary. I had contraband confiscated, a copy of that week's Der Spiegel. In 1978 I also saw the communist border police in Hungary haul an old lady off my train at 4 a.m. for trying to smuggle her own old wedding presents out. Seeing communism at work was scary indeed. And I'm not lying.

[chris in st. louis]

I, too, spent time in what used to called "West" Berlin as an exchange student in my late teens during the late '70's. At school I was lucky enough to got to know people who invited me to go over to East Berlin with them and meet their relatives. What an eye opener! And crossing the border could be quite harrowing as was passing through the former East Germany in a car or on a train--especially on the train. At the border into West Berlin, a dog would walk underneath the length of the train to sniff out would-be escapees. Anybody who misses that sh*t in the heart of Europe is a nostalgic numbskull! Thus sayeth ME!

[pst314]

"Anybody who misses that sh*t in the heart of Europe is a nostalgic numbskull"

I am personally acquainted with people who literally cannot see any moral difference betweeen Harry Truman and Joseph Stalin. I prefer stronger language than "numbskull."

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

http://www.austriancoins.com/Decor/CityMap.jpg

At the above is a map of the Austrian provinces. Arnold grew up around Graz in Styria (kinda wine colored province). The Soviets had troops in the northeast province (Niederostereich, colored brown in the map) that has Vienna (Wien, in German) as its capital, AND in the most eastern province, Burgenland, that is gray on the map.

It's about 100 miles from Graz to Vienna, so I put Arnold less than 50 miles from Soviet troops until they leave in 1955. Which is closer than John Kerry was to Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968.

And does Brad DeLong ever look like a dope. He made two posts at SDJ with this blunder.

[Michael Becker]

THE most amazing thing, at least to me, is that the same people who would do all the research on Arnold in order to "prove" he is a "liar" ignore Kerrys statements about Cambodia (which any moderately sane observer recognizes as lies), his stories about at least two of his purple hearts, and his entire record in the Senate.

"The truth will set you free!" While the context of this statement is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it applies to everyday life as well. When Bush was battered for his National Guard service, the signed form 180 and released ALL of his records, including his payroll and dental records. Not even his severest critics (with the probable exception of Michael Moore) still attack his record. If Kerry would sign a form 180 and then hold one open press conference, after reporters have had the opportunity to review relavent records, he could make this controversy go away. Since he resists it looks like the charges have substance and that he doesn't have a "reasonable" explanation for at least some of the charges.

Having his head in sand will continue to batter him every day, not only thru the election but long after. I frankly expect Kerry to degenerate into a characature (sp?) as have AlGore and Jimmy Carter. No one takes these buffoons seriously any more, they have become - quoting Clint Eastwood - legends in their own mind.

[Andrew X]

[I'm spreading this around in case it has legs]

The blog Slings 'n Arrows (credit, not a plug) asks a stunning question....

Kerry, during his midnight ramblings, said "I visited some veterans of the Iraq War in a hospital the other day, and was so impressed....." blah blah.

Huh? What hospital? Where? When? Was this filmed? Did he and his campaign choose to do this and then utterly ignore the event... no film, no announcement, nothing? Would he have the stones to vist, knowing that a lot of soldiers might be less than enthusiastic about his campaign??

Maybe, to his credit, he did. But has anyone heard a single peep about such a visit other than Kerry's words? Note: "visited the OTHER DAY".. as in, within the past ten days.

Surely this can be verified. Simply ask his staff the hospital and date, and make a coupla calls.

[Xrlq]

When Yglesias's piece ran, I wrote off as a "strawtard" anyone who would be dumb enough to think Austria was a communist country. I stand by that. However, I don't fault the Europeans who think Arnold was off base for calling his former country "socialist." Americans frequently use the word "socialist" to describe the boring, quasi-socialist democracies of Western Europe, so it should pretty obvious to any American what Arnold was talking about. However, Germans and Austrians almost never use the word "socialist," without further qualification (e.g., "Social Democrat"), to describe anything other than the "socialism" that existed from East Germany to the Union of Soviet "Socialist" Republics.

Bottom line: we shouldn't fault Europeans for misunderstanding Arnold's speech, although we should fault Matthew Yglesias and the Ass. Press for misunderstanding it deliberately.

[Hairsplitter]

"But has anyone heard a single peep about such a visit other than Kerry's words? Note: "visited the OTHER DAY".. as in, within the past ten days." - And there are the key words; 'other day'. It could have been last week or last year; it was a day other than today.

[Andrew X]

So let 'im tell us what day. If "the other day" for Kerry is actually six months ago, hey, that's a bit of insight into his rhetoric.

[ed]

Hmmmm.

Best thing I've read lately is a new political term coined on some blog.

Kerrycide.

The definition of a candidate who is so devoid of character, talent and charisma that campaigning only makes people hate him.

lol.

[Dave]

Like many "tourists" of my generation I visited East Berlin in 1983. Went through Checkpoint Charlie, had the border guards (probably Stasi) check the entire bus, eyeball each of us--and on to East Berlin in the workers' paradise of the GDR with an official government guide (no private ones--might say something not politically correct). So we saw among other things, the main churches of Berlin still mostly in rubble and a huge memorial cemetery not to the Germans who died in WWII but to the Russians who took Berlin. Finally we were searched going out before goingthrough the checkpoint--- and what did the people on our bus (mostly Americans) do as we finally crossed into W. Berlin--we cheered to be back in a free place---so to a very limited extent I know exactly what the Governator was talking about. What was John Kerry doing at this time? Just look at his record in the early 1980's whether he then understood the difference between freedom and tyranny. Has he changed?

[TM]

But has anyone heard a single peep about such a visit other than Kerry's words?

This is a mousetrap - if he really can prove it, any Rep who challenged him looks like a jerk.

However, a reporter whowanted to do a human interest follow-up could certainly ask a few questions of thew Kerry staff. A Fox reporter, or a WSJ fellow, or so on.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I expect to hear news of Matt Y's head exploding any day.

[Andrew X]

TM - My point exactly. A job for the blogosphere if there ever was one.

[capt joe]

Well, Matt-baby is getting close to a head implosion.

Today, he wrote Glenn R. and said that Glenn misquoted him. So Glenn showed him that this was the exact quote that was on his site.

Then mattie told him to F*** off.

That is definitely someone with a screw too far.

It's that impossible bounce that Bush got. You know the one that liberal pundits used to explain why Kerry did not get a bounce. Something about the populace being so evenly divided. Atrios spent yesterday and today explaining that the polls didn't really say what they said.

As well, the indymedia crowd is getting set for the appearance of this book "the Family" by Kitty Kelley
http://colombia.indymedia.org/news/2004/09/16349.php
George Senior a child molestor? GWB a closet homosexual? OOOkay....

After this book is released I predict another 10 point bounce for Bush.

[Greg F]

"It's that impossible bounce that Bush got. You know the one that liberal pundits used to explain why Kerry did not get a bounce."

The pundits see politics as a game to be won, like a sporting event, the presidential election is the championship game. The average voter, I dare say, has a very different perspective. Without question, this is the most important issue in my lifetime, it involves life and death, it involves the very basic value we all hold dear, freedom. Unlike any presidential election since the end of WWII, it's not the economy stupid, the stakes are much higher. Up to election day pollsters will poll and voters will answer, many without much thought to the consequences of the answers they give the pollster. When people step into the booth on election day it will be different, very different. The inconsequential pollsters questions will now become a vote with serious consequences. At that moment, for many people, it will come down to a single issue, terrorism.

[Dan]

For a large chunk of voters the only issue in this election is that they hate GWB and Kerry is not Bush. That is why I believe that the longer it looks like Bush will win, the more likely he will win by a landslide. These people aren't going to go out and vote against Bush if they think he's going to win. It would just be too painfull for a lot of these folks to participate and lose, they would rather say "F-it, Bush will just steal the election again" and then spend the next 4 years calling Bush a Nazi.

[Peter Sean Bradley]

The Matt Yglesia thread was simply amazing. About half-way down I started reading leftists who were dismissing the "Rape of Austria" as either deserved or the hysterical rantings of histrionic women. I know people who fled from the Russian troops in Austria and Hungary. One old former seminarian who was a young man at the time told me he had to make a decision about staying in a relatively warm place and being murdered by the Russians or getting on the road for another day and living.

The Russian troops generally acted animals. They acted like "Genghis Khan's" troops. It may have been understandable, but it wasn't pretty. It's an actual historic fact. It was asymptopically worse than the wildest rantings of the Left about American troops in Vietnam or Iraq.

And now these comfortable leftist pukes can calmly write that these war crimes were justified or imagined.

Amazing.

[gaia online gold]

I am so glad that I can earn a lot of gaia online gold.

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