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September 17, 2005



I'm reminded of the proper English matron at a dinner party, who, on learning that her neighbor was an orphan, said "I can see losing one parent, but losing both looks a lot like carelessness".


"I can see losing one parent, but losing both looks a lot like carelessness".

Shaw, "The Importance of Being Ernest"

Maher used to be funny, but I can't deal with his mean streak. It's like George Carlin, that's all that really comes through anymore.


Er, thanks, how Wildely wrong, but earnestly so, I was.


Would things be better or worse if we had a full-time President? As much as the Administration dislikes France, they have adopted the French practice of basically shutting down the government during the month of August. Don't let the terrorists know.


In case you didn't know, Bush is fully engaged wherever he is.

That great wartime President, FDR, spent far more time truly out of touch in Georgia.

What a pitiful argument.

richard mcenroe

You quote Bill Maher like he matters. That sort of ineffectual sniping is all the "progressives" have left.

When your platform is reduced to the level of a Letterman one-liner, your party is over.


Actually, this isn't that bad although my guess is we'll see Dean et al. repeat a variation of it for the next two years.

Two years? Hell, next 25 years.

From the self-described "libertarian" (ahem) Bill Maher it's pretty good venting.



What ally did we lose?
When did we last have a surplus?
(Hint, it wasn't under Clinton, the federal
debt went up EVERY year of the Clinton administration).
All the other items were not under Bush's control.

It's "comedy" based on Democratic talking
points that have no basis in fact.


The other side never liberated 50 million people.


G, I wonder if there isn't some issue of hubris working. Political Correctness has become so sure of itself, it can no longer see its falsities.

Would they laugh if they knew that not only the comedian, but themselves, had no intellectual clothes on?


We need humor during hard times.

We don't need mockery.

The other night, following links to postings re ABC interviews after the speech, I ran across two comment sections filled with people who love this man named Bush.

I almost wept. I tarried for a very long time, reading each comment. I couldn't pull myself away. It was comfortable reading the words of those who admire his sincerety, his hard work, and who find his verbal gaffs endearing.

The contrast with Bush-hating comments I see every day made me doubt we all live in the same country.

I don't have any emotional investment in Bush. I do support Iraq and have no trouble defending him. But there are times when he speaks, or acts, that leave me in awe of his vision.

After 9/11 we could all live in fear of the 'other' (which the Left assumes we do) and ourselves succumb to hatred of our fellow man because of the depravity of the actions of the terrorists.

Instead we have Bush who in every act and deed and word proves his faith in humanity.

Instead of condemning the arab world, he gives them hope and a better future.

Yet some dare call him Chimp.


I don't think it's very funny. It seems all the grief we've suffered, with the exception the the natural disaster that was Hurricane Katrina, was the result of the criminally negligent, and just plain criminal previous administration.

I despise Bill Maher, and all the middle-aged adolescents who identify with him.

However I did hear a funny joke at Bush's expense yeterday:

"Did you hear about President Bush's press conference this morning? A reporter asked him what he thought about Roe vs. Wade. He replied that he didn't care how those folks got out of New Orleans."

Jim Hu

I agree with Pablo. There are plenty of things to mock about W, but what makes this rant "great" much less funny? One of my liberal friends emailed the same thing to me, so others seem to think it's amusing. I guess I just don't get it.

Barry  Dauphin

Bill was funny once, when he actually was trying to be a comedian. But now he has deluded himself that he matters and is important. He's basically lame at this point.


Kudos for actually publishing this most excellent rant on your front page. I posed it a few days ago on a long thread, and got a deafening silence....

I'm sorry. If you guys can't see the humor in "Bush governs like Billy Joel drives", you just ain't got your funny bones connected. (Though I like Pablo's joke very much also - gonna use that one tonight.) The sanctimony that surrounds Bush from the dwindling few like Syl who worship him only lends a little extra oomph to the fun the rest of us are having every night from the likes of Jon Stewart...who is going to go in the Comedy Hall of Fame thanks to Bush...heh heh heh.

Sorry you all don't appreciate it, but it sure does make the pain of watching him repeatedly drive our country into one brick wall after another a little more bearable to the 60% or so of us who wish this guy had just stuck to running his daddy's friends' oil companies into the ground.



If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!

--Rudyard Kipling


So to you it looks like 9/11 and Katrina represent carelessness on his part. You are the one making a deity of him; one you despise but fear.

You could get over it.


kim, as usual I can't understand a word of what you're saying, but I can always rely on your trusty telegraph to pound something out in reply twenty seconds after I post.

You guys gotta learn to laugh a little. Aren't there any rightwing political comedians?



The problem with the left today is that they have no sense of humor. They only laugh at Bush. Everything else is an outrage to them.

Oh, every once in a while someone leaves the reservation.

Donna Brazile:

"On Thursday night President Bush spoke to the nation from my city. I am not a Republican. I did not vote for George W. Bush -- in fact, I worked pretty hard against him in 2000 and 2004. But on Thursday night, after watching him speak from the heart, I could not have been prouder of the president and the plan he
outlined to empower those who lost everything and to rebuild the Gulf Coast."

I doubt that Steve will add this quote to his database.


Ouch? That stuck from where you're sitting? Amazing. The blame Bush for everything game is sooooo old. Can't you folks find a new game?


I've never seen commenters with less of a sense of humor. Come on, people! Intelligent people should be able to recognize good humor even when it doesn't entirely mesh with your political views. Tom clearly has this ability, or he wouldn't have posted this. Maher can be annoying, but this particular rant is incredibly funny. Liberals had plenty of laughs at Clinton's expense. They didn't take it all personally. Lighten up, people.


The carelessness with which you lose threads might explain your waifness, Etienne.


Not impressed with this article. The myth that everyone loved us during Clinton's Administration is just that, a myth. We were hated back then also, more so probably.

The difference is that Clinton went around the world apologizing for the US so he gained their quiet disdain, which the author probably interpreted as love.

Hmm...during Clinton's administration we lost 2 embassies, a warship, a military housing compound, a Federal Building, 975 souls during a heat wave in Chicago, and laid the groundwork for Bin Laden's offensive by Clinton's constant retreats.


Richard McEnroe makes an excellent point--Maher might be exhibit facile cleverness in a post-modern spin on Wilde that elicits a smile, but like most post-modernist spins, it is emptily derivative and has nothing on the original--and if this is all the left has left, as it were, then it is no wonder that they keep losing elections.

I understand about wanting to keep things light, Etienne, but this rings hollow and a little pathetic to me.


Sorry, clicked too fast--try "be exhibiting" in that first sentence.


Oh, lordie, "libruls have no sense of humor"....like so much from the right, no evidence presented. Someone point me to a funny rightwing comedian....or hell, a rightwinger who even makes the effort to try and be funny.

It isn't only Bush that's food for the funnies. You've got the whole dang Republican party and their gang of oddly obedient followers. I heard someone today, just casually, in passing, say that electing Republicans to govern is like hiring an Amish car mechanic....I mean, it's so easy, it just falls into your lap.


Syl via Academic Elephant, you want to know why Dems keep losing elections, don't look at Bill Maher... he's just an entertainer. Check out Donna Brazile. That's the reason Dems can't win. She's stil trying to toss this loser a life preserver, even when he's already hugging the anvil.


"gang of oddly obedient followers."

Pot meet kettle.

For a funny center right writer check out Greg Gutfield over at the otherwise abject HuffPo. Then check the grey, souless, humorless "liberals" in the comments. Damn funny.


The Roe vs Wade joke was funny.

The Twin Tower rant was not.

We didn't lose them, we know where they went and how and who.

Who ??? Bush ??? Yeah right ... real funny.

Those of us who get what happened don't see "humor" in the stupidity of those who don't.

Paul Zrimsek

Bill Maher was quite bad enough when the only thing we had to worry about was telling him apart from Jon Stewart. This new challenge of telling him apart from Maureen Dowd is more than I want to deal with.


Good catch, Pablo. Greg Gutfeld is pretty funny...I don't think the HuffPo was created as a comedy venue, so can't fault the other posters, but you gotta give them points for having Greg there. Whose still recycling that tired cliche that libruls can't laugh at themselves?

Any funny rightwing standups? Are they just afraid of the audiences?


Now Paul's post is funny.


Well I saw some "redneck" comics on the Comedy channel that were pants-wettingly funny. Some of the wittiest and most hilarious people I've met are from the South and have a delicious, dry sense of country humor. I know plenty of leftys and rightys and frankly don't think either group is more or less funny than the other. Some INDIVIDUALS are gifted with a superior sense of humor, and politics got nothin' to do with it.

The main difference I see between Repubs and Dems is one of maturity, logic, willingness to debate, and a sense of personal responsibility, vs. perpetual adolescence, mental incoherence, dogmatism and a vicious suppresion of dissenting points of view, and a victim mentality.

Oh yeah, and I've never met a lefty who wasn't a physical coward, though they do seem prone to violence in a mob.


I've never met a lefty who wasn't a physical coward

Sigh...another freeper asshole, tossing insults from the safety of his keyboard.

I'll pass that on to the cops and firemen at the BBQ I'm headed out to, Pablo. Let's just say, I'd like to see you say that to their faces.


Hey, who says we Conservatives are without a sense of humor?

If you haven't read Liberal Larry's blog "Blame Bush!" you've really missed a treat: his most recent post is entitled "Bush Urinating on Company Time."

"It's bad enough that the Shrub vacations for 9 months out of the year, but does he have to urinate on my dime as well? Do the math, folks. Bush's salary is $400,000 a year, or 76 cents a minute. Let's say he takes six pee breaks a day at three minutes each - five minutes if he pees sitting down like Oliver Willis. Perhaps we should ask ourselves if we can really afford to continue the war in Iraq, AND pay Bush over $7,000 a year to use the loo.

Say what you will about Bill Clinton, but he never allowed his natural urges to interfere with his job. Al Gore hasn't had a bowel movement in over 17 years. Yet Bush apparently thinks he can piss away our hard earned money whenever nature calls."

Who could resist such a blog, especially with commenters like Talking Toaster, Bush Borrowed My Adult Diaper, Menstrual Rainbow, Crouton or John Roberts Oppresses Cross Dressing Toads?


Hog on Ice is pretty funny sometimes. I don't think I'd want to meet him in person though ;)

But I appreciate anyone who doesn't bow to the Gods of PC.

Oh, and Tim Blair!! He can be brutal! His commenters are funny too. But I've learned more about Aussie politics than I could ever want to. I could live quite happily without Margo. LOL


Well Etienne you're right that cops and firemen are brave men and women, but while some of them misguidedly still vote Democratic due to union pressure and media disinformation they are certainly not lefties. No, I'm talking about your Deanic-Moveon-Mooreon- Cindy Sheehan faction. I know lots of these folks and they are in my experience, with very few exceptions, absolutely pussified beyond the redemption.

And you could call me an asshole to my face and I would let you get away with it, since you're a female, but if my wife was present she'd beat you silly while I choked with gales of laughter. She's Columbian, grew up in Washington Heights and she's both fierce and loyal. She hates lefty twits like you. LOL

Harry Arthur

Bill, excellent!

Les Nessman

"The sanctimony that surrounds Bush from the dwindling few like Syl who worship him..

..watching him repeatedly drive our country into one brick wall after another...

..like so much from the right, no evidence presented...

..the whole dang Republican party and their gang of oddly obedient followers..

..toss this loser a life preserver...

..Are they just afraid of the audiences? "

followed by:

"Sigh...another freeper asshole, tossing insults from the safety of his keyboard."

LOL! All in the same short thread!


I have found plenty of Maher's career good. This isn't a good example of that, unless "bushitler murdered MILLZION$" is supposed to be a clever observation. It's a lot like Jon Stewart proclaiming that "half our potential audience is evil."


I used to find Maher funny...but in all honestly, not since he moved Politically Incorrect from Comedy Central to ABC. Once he began seeing himself as a truth teller, somewhere around 1998, his days as a funny man were numbered.

Jon Stewart and the Daily Show still makes me laugh, loud and often, even when in full rant against Bush. Stewart still understands that when you're on COMEDY central, job one is all about the funny.

Heck, there were times in the 1992 election that I thought Bill Clinton was funny; I knew he was getting some professional help with his sound bites, and they were good. He should have kept some of them around.

I'd love to be in the vicinity of Will Durst; for equal opportunity political humor, he had few equals.

Now, about funny right-wing standups:

* Bill Engvall, of blue-collar comedy tour fame

* Dennis Miller (perhaps not a full-fledged Righty, but certainly a 9/11 Hawk)

* Jeff Wayne

* Jackie Mason

* Warren Bell (according to Jim)

* Rob Long (of Cheers fame)

* Mark Levin

* Chris Muir

Funny Bloggers/pundits:

Ace of Spades

Jeff Goldstein of Protein Wisdom

Frank J and the IMAO bloggers

Jonah Goldberg

PJ O'Rourke

caveat: even the funniest often stop being funny when they start getting too into the topic, whatever their politics. I did standup for a while, and learned early that if a political joke was more political than jokey, it tended to fall flat. And in some crowds, anything more complex than "(politician) SUX!!!" went over their drink-addled heads.

Ranting is easy. Comedy...that's hard.

nikita demosthenes


I agree with Patterico. You've really missed the boat on this one.



It's ironic that Bill Maher talks about Bush being "on the other side."

The irony is that, if one compares the actual public policy positions of organizations like (1) the Communist Party USA, (2) al Qaeda, and (3) the American Democratic Party, it is amazing how often they adopt similar positions.

In other words, when it comes to actual positions on public policy, the Democrats (and Bill Maher, who almost uniformly echos the Democratic Party talking points) really ARE on the other side.

See, e.g.:


-nikita demosthenes


Taken as individuals, the Left is funnier.

However, when two or more usually funny Left-types gather, they become earnest.

And not the 'you'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll see turtles fall from the sky' Ernest, either.


"When it comes to actual positions on public policy, the Democrats (and Bill Maher, who almost uniformly echos the Democratic Party talking points) really ARE on the other side."

Now that's an uncommonly silly statement. Not just regularly silly, but uncommonly silly. As in Blue Ribbon, Gold Medal, Olympic class silly.

To argue that is to say that Democrats wish for the people who want to kill us to actually succeed in killing us. Even though the people who want to kill us don't distinguish or care whether one is a Democrat or Republican or Whig or Rastafarian or any other member of an ideology that opposes their brand of Islam.

What? There aren't any Democrats over in Iraq fighting the Islamofascists? Or in Afghanistan? Or in the CIA or FBI hunting down al-Qaeda agents?





and the Master, Mark Steyn.

Les Nessman

Entertainers tend to be more Left than Right?

And this is new information?


see my new blog, "demosthenes redux" here:


richard mcenroe

Etienne — Blake Clark


While I rarely fine Mr. Maher funny (especially regarding politics), I did have to laugh at this one. Not exactly reality, but funny nevertheless...


while some of them misguidedly still vote Democratic due to union pressure and media disinformation

Oh I see, they aren't physical cowards, they're just dimwits...Much better.

if my wife was present she'd beat you silly while I choked with gales of laughter.

You sound like a lovely couple.

To the others, thanks, I'll check out those suggestions if they're available....except the ones I already know. Jonah Goldberg & P. J. O'Rourke are funny?...That's the joke, right?


Hey, hysterical leftists were bashing Guiliani (aka Nazihitler) 8 years long for claiming he was ruining NYC, then came 9/11 and everything changed.

It is all the same idiotic lunacy, now being applied to a different person, which has no meaning or justification except to satisify the stupidity of idiots. Mahler is an entertainer, a court-jester who reflects the idiocy of the ignorant.

The next Republican President will receive from hysterical Leftists the exact same hysteria they spewed forth towards the past Republican leaders. (No Etienne, Bloomberg is a Democrat, has governed like a dem, speaks like a dem and taxes the workers like a dem)

All this Bushhate isn't about Bush at all, it is about Leftists who cannot grasp the reality that they are being rejected by the American public. The more Americans reject the Left the more the Left bashes Bush.

The problem with Leftist Group-Think is that the people around them may be openly bashing Bush as to gain social acceptance but secretly they will vote for Bush which explains why Bush historically won in great numbers both the popular vote and the electoral vote. People may be chic-bushbashing openly but secretly in the voting booths are supporting Bush.

NYC is the largest gathering of group-thinkers in America, it is important that one behaves chic enough to get invited to one of those 'special' parties or entrance into a popular nightclub.


Well, syn, in whatever NY you're living in, I trust you notice everyone still mocks Rudy...cause he's goofy. Human beings have been mocking the pretentious and the powerful since the beginning of satire, and will continue to do so as long as they have breath to do it. I have no idea what universe you're living in where the Left is being rejected by the American public, or even how your hysterical group of wildeyed righties defines "Leftists" these days. You operate strictly from a set of stereotypes, most of them outdated. Most Americans are not very political, and vote on things that have nothing to do with politics - charisma, religious credos, phony Texas accents.

Now I've never been to a chic party or nightclub in my life, but I'll tell you this story from the summer of '04. Little backyard pool party, kid's birthday, I think. The talk turned to the Swiftboat story, which Sean Hannity was at that time running full court press on, as if the fate of the universe depended on it. A 30ish year old fireman I was talking to, veteran of the first Gulf War, a little drunk, surprised me by going ballistic. His words "I hate that little fat faced fuck. I swear when I hear him shitting on a veteran, lying, that little fatassed coward, I feel like reaching through the radio and breaking his fucking neck..." And so on, in poetic Brooklynese. Was that group think? What chic party do you think he was trying to get invited to?

You "misunderestimate" the "left"...which I take it you define as everyone who doesn't march in lockstep with your leader and hold him in the same esteem you do. I think the definitions of left and right are becoming blurrier in the real world of actual Americans, despite the arch separations you see on political blogs. Opposing this one party agenda that is being foisted on us right now - with BIG government, wasteful spending, corporate socialism, screwing the little guy, insulting our intelligence with PR being substitued for policy....You are finding people with very disparate philosophies united by a simple, common wish: a government that represents the people rather than the corporate special interests. That's the common thread you find in those who oppose your one-party system, and I think you're in for a shock if you truly believe that is what the American people are rejecting.

The Bush bashing? That's just people enjoying themselves while we kill the necessary time. Everyone knows Bush is irrelevant now.


I love the money quote: "You operate strictly from a set of stereotypes".

Ettienne, you've demonstrated repeatedly why you've earned the sobriquet of 'Poster Girl for Hateful Bigotry'.

Your little drunk fireman, was he surprised that Kerry hid from the press for 6 weeks under Swiftie fire? This was a press which studiously ignored the substance of the Swifties story. They'd have backed Kerry if he had given it a try. Instead, hide under Theresa's bed.

You should be outraged at him for throwing power back in Bush's lap.

And let's see his records. Kerry's I mean.

"Little drunk fireman"? Well, it doesn't take a big man to threaten a TV set.


It's also a little amusing to hear you beat the populist drum. The left and the Democratic Party only retain wisps of populism insofar at they can keep certain demographic groups hypnotized by a 'victim' mentality. Vox Populi has fled; liberalism has little appeal to many Americans, and what little appeal it has to many others is just habitual.

I'm sorry to dredge this up, but it's accurate; you've become nattering nabobs of negativism.

Cecil Turner

"I swear when I hear him s****ing on a veteran, lying . . ."

Real nice talk for a kid's birthday party. (Charming fellow, very persuasive.) But I understand the sentiment . . . it reminds me of listening to a certain LT Kerry slander a whole generation of American servicemen with his "Winter Soldier" fabrications. Which might explain why most veterans are less than impressed with JFK II.


Oops, radio set. Now I've seen some pretty big radio sets, so....


Don't worry, Cecil. He wasn't in earshot of the kids...nor was he trying to charm or persuade anyone. Just venting his frustration at that absurd chickenhawking demagogue, Sean Vanity.


Look out Big Guy, you're surrounded, by sound. Ear plugs, ho. Get your respirator on, too, 'cuz this set-up farts, too.


So what did he think of the Swifties?


We're coming up on another anniversary, Rathergate. I look forward to the day when publicly funded journalism schools dissect that episode on that day.


You may be looking at home-schooling or a nice private school then, Etienne.


I love how I am able to bring Etienne to his knees. Bark more raving moonbat!


and a Space Shuttle ...



I'm practicing up my one word posts for TexasToast's benefit.

If I stick to words ending in 'Z', I'll have the last word, too.




It was Alphabets ending in 'Z' I wanted to stick to.

Frank IBC

If the Christian Democrats win in Germany today, we will lose another enemy.

And hopefully Chirac will keel over soon.

Frank IBC

Everyone knows Bush is irrelevant now.

Looks like Donna Brazile and both of the Clintons didn't get the memo.


They're discontent. They want change.

Cecil Turner

"Just venting his frustration at that absurd chickenhawking demagogue, Sean Vanity."

Yes, it is frustrating to watch clueless media figures denigrate others' service . . . just like virtually every mainstream outlet's treatment of the SwiftVets. Again, I sympathize with the sentiment, if not necessarily the expression. Though I'm somewhat surprised he'd get so exercised over a relatively minor media figure instead of just changing the channel. (Unlike Maher, who has a truly annoying tendency to use up a prime-time movie slot with his forgot-to-be-funny attempts at satire.)


My wife's uncle served in Viet Nam and saw things that haunt him to this day. He has hated Johnny Fraud with all his might ever since he slandered his fellow servicemen at the Fullbright Commission hearings. I'd like to listen to a debate between him and this "drunk fireman".

It figures the clueless left would nominate a traitor who met at least twice with the enemy and lobbied for surrender on their terms, gamed the system to pull the shortest tour of any soldier to leave Nam who wasn't on a stretcher by claiming "wounds" that were treated with bandaids, and slandered his fellow soldiers and his country with remarks that the NVC used to demoralize American POWs, and run him as a WAR HERO!!

I'm sure this dim bitch Etienne happily voted for this despicable scumbag, who in more reasonable times would have been blindfolded and shot, but it goes to show that even with the DeMSM's heated propaganda campaign to put lipstick on this pig and bash Bush relentlessly he was soundly defeated. Had there been a neutral media it would have been a landslide.

So much for the left not being out of touch with mainstream America.

And what's with this obsession with firemen? Trying to show solidarity with the heroic, tough, blue collar working man type I suppose? Methinks thou dost protest too much. No doubt in reality you're just a homely unpopular little computer geek who fantasizes about parties and BBQ's with big strong handsome firemen and cops who, with you're mutual hatred of Bush and Cheney and Haliburton (yeah, right!), find a common bond which turns into heated romance when these father figures fall in love with your remarkable mind and your indomitable revolutionary spirit. LOL!! What a tool.

My brother in law's best friend was a member of NYFD. His name was Tom Foley. Guess what day his short life ended? Guess what his political party affiliation was. Clue...it begins with the letter R.


In little town America(hoi polloiville to you, Etienne) one of the chief amusements is to expose phony war heros in the VFW's and American Legions. when the Swifties weighed in, I recognized the drill immediately.

DeMSM, I like that. Worth 15 points and losing altitude fast.

Cecil Turner

"I'm sure this dim b***** Etienne happily voted for this despicable scumbag . . . "

It's probably too late to reclaim the former "family friendly" status of this blog, and discussions of allegations of treason tend to be heated, but I suspect our host would prefer we strive for civility. We probably ought to refrain from name-calling . . . at least among the participants.

Frank IBC

Well, it looks like the joke is on Maher and Etienne - looks like Schroder is OUT.

Pablo -

Are you "the" Pablo?


Who cares what the man who praised the terrorists who took out the WTC has to say? We'll probably hear this from John Cole for the till the next election.


Who's "the" Pablo?

We'll probably hear this from John Cole for the till the next election.

Not sure what you're trying to say there. I don't know if John Cole (the blogger?) would say that, but the lefties that make up 98% of the commenters at his blog might.



I guess once someone calls me an asshole I stop pulling punches, however I shall desist.


Since I don't know who "the Pablo" is, I suspect not.


Might as well, Pablo, I'm sure that last blast from you left her speechless. Or at least we can hope so.



I was referring to Pabllo's I guess once someone calls me an asshole I stop pulling punches, however I shall desist. comment.


Since Pablo was called "another freeper asshole" it's probably safe to assume by inferrence that boris (the prior alleged freeper) is included in that moniker.

Also, as Harry noted, missy moon flower is rather unsparing with her invective directed in the general direction of stage right. As one might expect from a sailor who spent 6 yrs in the Coast Guard (she claims).

The reason I have chosen flower appelations such as daffy dafodil, shrinking violet, petunia, daisy may, etc, is that I once claimed that I did not need Karl Rove talking points to kick her pansy ass, to which she complained that I had in fact called her a pansy ass. I pointed out that had I used the phrase "kick her sorry butt" instead, that would not be considered the same as calling her a sorry butt, but she continued to complain about the phrase anyway, so I figured that if I was going to be accused of calling her pansy, I might as well go ahead and do it.

Steven J.

When did we last have a surplus?

IN 1998, the surplus was 30B
In 1999, it was 1.9B
In 2000, it was 86.6B

These are the "on budget" surpluses and DO NOT include the Social Security surpluses.



Steven J.

But there are times when he speaks, or acts, that leave me in awe of his vision.


"The first time I met Bush 43, I knew he was different..One, he didn't know very much." Richard Perle,
quoted in "Bush's Brain Trust" by Sam Tanenhaus, Vanity Fair, July 2003.

Bush "is impatient, quick to anger, sometimes glib, even dogmatic; often uncurious and as a result, ill
informed; more conventional in his thinking than a leader should be."

David Frum, former Bush speechwriter, from his book The Right Man : The Surprise Presidency of George W.
Bush by DAVID FRUM, page 272.

Steven J.

it reminds me of listening to a certain LT Kerry slander a whole generation of American

It wasn't slander, it was the truth:

TOMMY FRANKS (continuing directly): -the things that Senator Kerry said are undeniable about activities in Vietnam. I think that things didn't go right in, in Vietnam.



As with nearly everything Kerry says, there is an element of truth; he just exaggerates compulsively.

Steven J.


The tipping point for public opinion about Vietnam came in the 3rd quarter of 1968, well before John Kerry spoke out.

The real traitors on Vietnam were LBJ, McNamara and Nixon.



Cecil Turner

" . . . however I shall desist."

Thanks. I didn't mean to suggest you were the worst offender, it's just easier to pick on a fellow righty.


Naw, the real error was merely opposing a nationalist, anti-colonial movement. Opposing the lethal Stalinism of it wasn't a mistake, now was it?


Not so much easier as less likely to be misinterpreted, eh?



Frank IBC

Pablo -

"THE Pablo" as in "Powderfinger".


Swing Low, sweet white boat comin',
Up the Mississippi River.
Bright red beacon,
Fright flag flyin'.
Who dat man at da rail?

Bill Arnold

Pablo, the "Oh yeah, and I've never met a lefty who wasn't a physical coward,..." was early in the thread, it stung, and while it might be factually true, if it is true, it's because you don't mix much with the left. (Unless by left you mean the part of the left that is physically cowardly - that I could agree with.) I've heard similar rants (against GWBush & adminstration), and live in a county where the Republican primary is the election, for all the local races. (And rather contested, too.)

The way I see the 2004 presidential election, a wartime president almost lost re-election to a weak candidate (who was, as people have pointed out here ad nauseum, politically damaged goods after the Fullbright Commission hearings, whether or not he told the truth.)


I was in Vietnam and Southeast Asia for much of '68-'73. I did not: 1) Meet with representatives of the enemy on two different occasions while I was a commissioned officer; 2) Lie to congress about war crimes of my comrades in arms; 3) Attend meetings where assassination of public figures was seriously considered. It's a matter of public record that John Kerry did. Why wasn't he prosecuted? How on Earth could a vile, despicable creature like him be nominated for POTUS?

I don't see any refutation of the Swiftboat Vets' allegations, only ranting about Hannity. Avoiding the issue?

The "conventional wisdom" that that war was a mistake and unwinnable is especially grating. The NVA was literally decimated in the Tet Offensive. Giap was ready to throw in the towel, until Uncle Walter and his traitorous ilk totally distorted the facts on the ground. Don't believe me? Look it up, in Giap's own words.

Cecil Turner

"[physical coward remark] was early in the thread, it stung, and while it might be factually true, if it is true, it's because you don't mix much with the left."

It stung? I'd have a lot more time for this argument if the left wasn't so fond of things like the "chickenhawk" label. And while I wouldn't use such a broad brush, it's no secret that servicemembers tend disproportionately toward the right.

"(who was, as people have pointed out here ad nauseum, politically damaged goods after the Fullbright Commission hearings, whether or not he told the truth.)"

Kerry was a nonentity before the Fullbright Commission hearings, and only became politically viable afterward. That over-the-top nonsense was his main qualification for public office, and culminated in his selection as presidential candidate. The funny part about all this is the "reality-based" community's inability to admit "Winter Soldier" was a crock, to the point of insisting that veterans who'd been challenging his version for three decades must all be politically-motivated Karl Rove plants, and liars themselves.

Steven J.

Giap was ready to throw in the towel

This is a lie. Giap began planning for the next large offensive shortly after Tet ended.

Steven J.

The "conventional wisdom" that that war was a mistake

Here's what someone who is actually knowledgeable about Vietnam thinks:

"We of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations who participated in the decisions on Vietnam acted according to what we thought were the principles and traditions of this nation. We made our decisions in light of those values. Yet we were wrong, terribly wrong. We owe it to future generations to explain why."

Robert S.McNamara,

Steven J.

2) Lie to congress about war crimes of my comrades in arms;

Kerry did not lie.


McNamara didn't know much about principles and traditions. He was a numbers whiz kid.

And Kerry was and is a serial and compulsive exaggerator. That's one reason he appears so wishy-washy; he doesn't know what the truth is.

Two weak reeds to base an argument upon.

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