Questions No One Else Is Asking

We are tackling the tough ones here - my understanding is that folks maintain their own sub-blogs, called "diaries" at the Daily Kos.  And how do these diaries find their readers?  If enough readers vote in support of a particular diarist's entry, the magic of modern software elevates it to the front page.

That approach might be expected to encourage a certain, hmm, extreme and outspoken approach, so we wonder - does that method favor the Direst Diarist?

Comments

[Geek, Esq.]

Not really. A lot of the time it favors breaking news or hidden tidbits in big media reports.

I say this as an occasional Kos diarist--shrillness and hyperbole are hardly marks of distinction and rarity at Kos.

[Al]

"That approach might be expected to encourage a certain, hmm, extreme and outspoken approach"

Not necessarily. It depends on the people doing the voting. If the voters want moderate, level-headed diaries, those would be voted to the front page. But those aren't the Daily Kos voters, now, are they?

But this post really isn't about how Kos works, is it? Rather, seems just a post to allow you to write "Direst Diarist"...

[Rob W]

As a long-time Kos reader and occasional diarist, the recommended diaries are usually not crazy at all or dire. In fact every few weeks somebody complains about the crazy diaries that get recommended. They are actually few and far between. I have seen one cuckoo diary out of thousands probably on 9/11 (gov't did it tinfoil hat person), and the comments roundly crushed the person. You should spend a lot of time there. The diaries are great and actually quite moderate, although, maybe not from your position out there on the wing. . . . We are for fiscal sanity, an Iraq policy that works, (probably 20% immediate pull-outers, 40% Murtha--as soon as practicable and 40% other) on how to solve Iraq. GOP pork and scandal are big, as well as the Gotcha! Diaries "O'Reilly says attacking SF OK for Osama." Tell me a crazy diary on the recommended diary list--I'd like to see what you guys think is off the reservation. Remember, all diaries go on the front page, but the recommended diaries are the ones voted on.

[Jon H]

You mean, like at RedSwamp too?

[Truzenzuzex]

Geek:

Not really. A lot of the time it favors breaking news or hidden tidbits in big media reports.

Not always, apparently (excerp from this diary, 3rd on the "recommended diaries" list today):

But it is now clear to all but the most wild-eyed fanatics that the same people peddling this new rationale have been wrong about everything thus far -- literally -- when it comes to Iraq. They have not only been radically wrong in their snide, self-assured predictions as to what would happen in Iraq if we invaded, but far worse, they are the ones whose policies have caused the unparalleled and dangerous chaos that now reigns in that country. They are the last people whose predictions and prescriptions ought to be listened to.

No "Dire Diarist" this guy, eh?

[The Unbeliever]

That kind of voting doesn't necessarily lead to "Direst Diarist", TM; but it will give you a sense of what opinions the mass of voters over at DKos value the highest.

Of course the side effect of reducing the visibility of extreme opinions (dare we consider what the Kossacks label "extreme"?) is that the diaries which do net the highest votes become indicative of what the community believes. So if you think the highest voted diaries are pretty crazy, well, you now have safe standing to infer that "most DKos voters are crazy". (Note that this only holds true when there is both a high number of available diaries and a passionate voting audience; sites with similar voting systems such as kuro5hin.org, which lacks the former but has the latter in spades, tend to always throw the nutty stuff to the front page.)

The voting

[Gary Maxwell]

TM

Brilliant strategery. Smoke em out by throwing them the head fake adn then break back the other way. Notice how many lefties took your bait and started telling you how the Kossacks really really and truly works. So earnest in their descriptions too.

Now try it for the DUmp...

[The Unbeliever]

(oops, I hit the wrong button and cut off my previous comment)

The voting system mainly serves to prevent outliers within the voting community from gaining legitimacy; if some diarist posts a psychotic conspiracy theory and the righty blogosphere tries to use it to discredit all of DKos, the DKos voters can say "wait, we didn't vote approval for this, you can't paint us all with that brush". The flipside, of course, is also true: your highest voted diaries can legitimately be used to define the community.

So basically, it gives you a better defined community than a free-form forum. Why you would actually want to be associated with the DKos community is another question altogether...

[Rob W]

Unbeliever:

You couldn't be more wrong about the purpose of the voting system. We have nothing to hide. Why would we want to hide anything? Because we believe that Bush cherry-picked intel? Um, 55% of Americans believe that. Becasue we think Bush is a terrible president? Well, turns out only 36% of Americans approve of the job he is doing. Our views are the mainstream ones.

The site is open to anyone. You can sign up and you won't get banned. You can even argue the conservative point of view. If you are civil, you won't get troll-rated either.

Generally, the voting system is actually used to put important diaries to the top--interesting ones. A big problem at DailyKos is 80 million idiots writing diaries such as "Breaking--Woodward testifies before the grand jury!" Since the site averages 750,000 hits per day as measured by Site Meter, the odds that any fifteen idiots are typing the same thing to get on the recommended list and see their name "in lights" is high.

They really don't care about "you can't paint us all with that brush." Why would they? They are their own community. Or should I say, I am part of that community.

Unbeliever, why do you think that people are afraid to say what they feel? Do you guys regularly hide your true opinions on blogs? It seems so counter to what blogs are for.

[Rob W]

P.S. That diary is basically what is being said by the right now--We can't leave Iraq now, or it will be a mess! Which is a far cry from "Let's invade Iraq, things will work out." I will admit he's a bad writer and over the top on his language. Coulda said it in about 20 lines, not 200.;

[Sue]

I visited a diary at KOS back in August. The one where the diarist wanted Cindy Sheehan to be shown respect by referring to her as Mother Sheehan.

:)

Not sure if that fits a dire diarist or not, but it was certainly funny.

[Sue]

Rob W,

I have never posted at KOS but I read it everyday. The people at KOS frighten me. :) They are so angry.

[TexasToast]

Sue

We occasionally have folks hit this blog who tilt the anger machine. Thankfully, they usually stay away, but the fellow using RATS in every post last week wasn't exactly moderate. Last night we had some guy who the moderate rightees labled a reThuglican pretender - except I have seen his sig on lots of other right wing blogs spouting the same nonsense.

Worse though, is the traitor. Ann Althouse was roasted by the LGF crowd for saying bad things about Roger Simon.

Its far easier to fall off the wagon to the right on JOM then to fall off on the left - which is to be expected - but this is still one of the more balanced comment sections that I've seen.

[Sue]

I read KOS daily. I know what they say. And none of it is pretty. LGFs is somewhere I go for headline stories. I seldom, if ever, read the comment sections, so I don't know what they say there.

[TexasToast]

Interesting. I don't read KOS. They bore me.
I dont read the comments at Washington Monthly (Drum) either - ditto. I like to read center to center-right comment sections. The only threads I generally try to avoid are the red meat ones like the Chris Mathews one today. Flame wars get old.

[Sue]

I also read David Corn. And Huffington Post. :) I don't post there, just peruse the chatter. I have been known to wander into the land of Larry Johnson. It is crawling with rattlers so you have to tiptoe lightly. Or, if you are like me, get a stick and start whacking to see where they strike. :)

[Syl]

I don't go over to KOS and DU too much. I don't mind seeing opposing viewpoints, but the anger is almost pathological.

One day I did a comparison between reactions of LGF'ers and DU'ers on one subject (drilling in ANWR). Granted one 'study' isn't enough to do a thesis on, but in spotchecks on other things, the comparison seems to hold true, and it is this:

The Left is angry, bitter, depressed and paranoid about Bush and Republicans.

The Right is angry and sometimes paranoid about Islamic extremism, but still maintains a sense of humor.

In the specific topic I followed on both DU and LGF, the DU'ers were ready to move to Canada, were weeping over the caribou (who actually like the pipeline's warmth), and said the Reps would gladly pave over the Grand Canyon!

To which an LGFer responded 'Great! More parking for Vegas!'

I mean, the LGF'ers are more extreme now than a couple of years ago when they self-policed about saying ALL muslims or ALL of Islam and seem to have given up on that. But they often crack me up with wit.

I spit out my Pepsi at Rantburg too. And that's not a place whose commenters I would recommend for anyone who is moderate. I go there because it accumulates articles about terrorists and their doings around the world.

Show me an equivalent place on the Left, and I'll gladly drop by. The Left, with a few exceptions, doesn't pay much attention to terrorism and Islamists, only to Bush and the Republicans.

We, on the Right (and it took me a while before I stopped cringing when someone called me a 'righty') have to deal with both terrorists and the Left. With the weight of the world 'on our shoulders' so to speak, if we didn't keep a sense of humor, we'd go nuts...just like the Left.

Okay, that's my over-generalized right/left rant of the day. Yes, I know it's all nuanced and Jeff will be the first one to point out that HE is not like that.

[Dwilkers]

Rob W-

"Our views are the mainstream ones."

If you really believe that about the "Kos community" you are seriously detached from reality.

[Jim E.]

"We, on the Right ... have to deal with both terrorists and the Left. ...the weight of the world 'on our shoulders'"

Oh. My. God.

Please get over yourself.

[richard mcenroe]

How do the readers find these diaries? Well,once you realize rabies is transmitted by air...

[Sue]

Syl,

Better a righty than a wrongy. :)

And you are right about KOS (I can't answer to LGFs). They are all about Bush and Republicans and anyone who has a christian/jewish faith. They don't touch Islamic terrorists. Or, if they do, it is our fault they hate us.

[boris]

Please get over yourself

Obvious joke. Born without the irony gene huh.

[Geek, Esq.]

The LGF crowd are fascists, sadists, racists, and would be thugs if they had any balls.

LGF or BNP? Same shit, different pile.

[Syl]

JimE

Sheesh

You can't even see the self-mockery. That's exactly what I mean about the left being so goshdarned serious and the right having a bit of fun.

[Geek, Esq.]

Syl:

If you seriously want a place with lefties showing a sense of humor (and at about 50 IQ points higher than LGF), try Jesus' General.

I'll just add that your perception of the difference between right and left is as blinkered as it is self-congratulatory.

[Sue]

Geek,

Your idea of humor proved my point at 8:03 PM.

[Geek, Esq.]

Sue, if you mean that liberals aren't typically Muslim-haters like the average LGF'er, and don't fall into hysterics about Muslims at every turn like the wingnuts do (see, e.g., the kid from Oklahoma who blew himself up), you are correct.

You see, Orientalism went out of style with libruls a while ago.

[Syl]

You see, Orientalism went out of style with libruls a while ago.

How would would anyone know. They don't even discuss the issue...unless there's an angle to hurt Bush with.

One trick ponies.

[Sue]

Yeah, but Christian bashing didn't.

Do you wear a bracelet or something? One of those like you wear when you are allergic to penicillin? Because I'm wondering why you think terrorists would not kill you as fast as they would kill me?

[Geek, Esq.]

And Republicans don't talk about democracy unless they want to bomb some country where they don't speak English or worship Jesus.

I could trade stereotypes with you all night, but it was tiresome from the beginning.

[Sue]

Syl,

He is trying to take the high road. Like they (KOS) have some kind of moral superiority over LGFers because they (KOS) don't do Orientalism. They do Christians/Jews. Much more PC, you know.

[Syl]

Geek? You mean the ones who mock ID, but still don't understand what science is? Ask them some questions about what causes global warming. :)

[Sue]

Geek,

Then why did you feel the need to jump into it if you were tired of it to begin with?

:)

[Geek, Esq.]

Because I'm wondering why you think terrorists would not kill you as fast as they would kill me?

Honey, I have friends who died in the World Trade Center.

Please try not to be so stupid.

[Syl]

Sue

LOL

BTW, Woodward let out that Cheney wasn't his source.

Discussing something else, King asked a question, something about question lists to Cheney, and Woodward said he didn't interview Cheney during that period :)

[Sue]

Well, sugar dumplings, I'm sorry about your friends. Is this your Murtha moment? I can't question you about anything you say? You now have moral authority over all things?

[Sue]

Syl,

I saw you post that earlier. Did you ever figure out the Card comment?

[Syl]

No, I have to see a transcript for that.

[Geek, Esq.]

Syl:

Last comment of the night I'm going to waste on you.

Please prove me wrong by producing a KOS diary filled with scores of people celebrating the burning of churches and/or synagogues. Or using terms like "Koranimals" towards Christians and/or Jews.

You can't. Because, well, you're what us liberals call a "liar."

[Syl]

Geek

And Republicans don't talk about democracy unless they want to bomb some country where they don't speak English or worship Jesus.

And you think only white christian nations are entitled to democracy.

[Sue]

Syl,

I didn't think it was Cheney. He came out swinging on the day it broke. Too feisty to be the leaker.

[Syl]

Geek

I didn't say I agree with everyone at LGF, I just said they're really witty sometimes.

I do like the term 'splodeydope' though.

[Geek, Esq.]

Well, sugar dumplings, I'm sorry about your friends. Is this your Murtha moment? I can't question you about anything you say? You now have moral authority over all things?

I was taking issue with your idiotic assumption that I don't think I'm as much at risk from terrorists as you are.

Got that?

I KNOW I'M AT RISK FROM TERRORISM.

Terrorists attacked my city and killed my friends.

I don't need some ignorant wingnut to tell me that.

[Syl]

Geek

Anyway you're proving my point. All full of anger and moral outrage. Where's the sense of fun?

[Syl]

Sue

I think I've figured out the Left's fascination with Cheney. I think it was neuro-conservative, a psychologist, who was discussing BDS and that it represents displacement. Fear is displaced to anger with Bush.

I think the Left thinks Cheney would protect them better than they think Bush has, hence their utter obsession with the man.

[Jim E.]

"All full of anger and moral outrage. Where's the sense of fun?"

Is that another joke we're all missing? Are you drinking tonight, syl? THis is appalling. It is possible to cross lines, you know.

[Sue]

Cool, then you'll understand my confusion as to why Islamic terrorists are not discussed with the same passion as Christians and Jews at KOS. Got that?

[Jim E.]

You'll undoubtedly pick on my moral outrage, but I had to write my disapproval. Anyways, I'm not really outraged, just surprised.

[Syl]

Jim E

What the bleep are you talking about?

[Syl]

Then I can talk about your moral surprise then? LOL

[Jim E.]

I thought your comment was in response to Geek's 8:51 comment. Is it not?

[Syl]

Of course not, Jim. We're here posting at the same time.

[Sue]

Who's on first? :)

Night ya'll.

[Syl]

Night Sue

I guess I'll check tomorrow for a transcript...as will the whole world!

Ta ta!

[Syl]

Jim E

In case you didn't understand, we cross-posted.

[Mescalero]

The answer is simple: Diarrhea! This has been a perennial problem with liberals for years, but they're too fuckin' dumb to figure that fundamental fact of life out!

[Syl]

Oh, man, look at these pictures. Those kids are wondrous!

[clarice]

Don't know where else to put this put today's (Nov 22) WSJ has a dynamite article from Edward Jay Epstein on the backstory re Atta in Prague--how we lost the best , most easily grasped connection between Irag and 9/11..It's subsciption only but I hope they'll put it in their online version if not today, then tomorrow..Try to get it. It's important.

[clarice]

The article IS in online Journal--dn't miss it:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007584

[Syl]

Thanks for the link, Clarice. Clear. Precise. To the point. Funny.not that a link messed up the investigation.

[Syl]

I read the LKL Woodward transcript.

The Andrew Card thing was nothing. Woodward said he got wavers from the mystery source, Andrew Card, and Libby.

Thank heavens for the internet and the speech to text software that makes transcripts almost instantly available.

[Syl]

Sheesh

LEAK not LINK in my 10:32

Preview Is For Wimps

[Syl]

Oh, and WAIVERS not WAVERS. Or was it WAFERS. Oh, well, I know I'm just talking to myself. Later.

[clarice]

After midnight we all go to amnesiaspeak..

[kim]

Google 'moral outrage surprise' #8, the arbiter, Yves.
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[kim]

Ou boob y tu?
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