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December 14, 2005



I'd definitely add to the list TM's creating such a fascinating and addictive Board. Get outta my head you'all.


Finally, a blade worthy of the Gordian knot. There was no reason but for the fog of politics that an actuarially sound Social Security program couldn't be devised.

Muchas gracias say the grandchildren.

r flanagan

I agree that Glenn provided a range
of opinions.

I particularly disagree with the quoted statement that WW2 GIs never sank to the level of our enemies .Too broad. We have
and had murderers and sadists in the general population and when drafted we had murderers and sadists in uniform and they acted accordingly. Perhaps ,in fact probably , the case could be made that in WW2 our policies never sank to the level of our enemies.

As I've written before ,McCain has my proxy.


In hitting Swifties reflexively, simply because he could, McCain sank to the level of our enemies.

r flanagan

I'm not expressing an opinion about
McCain , I'm expressing my personal preference for a particular policy with which he is identified.

Rick Ballard


Can you cite any specific language in the amendment that in any way provides a detailed or comprehensive definition of torture? Something that would be of at least minimal use in determining whether a specific technique was "out-of-bounds"?

Just language from the actual amendment - not weasel utterings from supporters about what it means if you cock your head and hold it up to candlelight in a closet.


With McCain's ignorant treatment of the Swifties, and his ignorant treatment of political speech, I don't have to know the details of his policy toward torture to know it is ignorant.


He is an ignorant political machine, intent on survival and damn the consequences. Can you imagine him administering anything?

r flanagan

Rick. Nope.I can't cite a single clause altho I have a vague recollection that the amendment requires that the army field manual's definition should prevail.

As to McCain , even if I thought he was a loose cannon I'm pretty sure Lindsay Graham is not. And surely at least some of the other 88 senators who voted for the amendment
are considered OK by you guys.


You guys just don't get it. We're at war here, and there are ticking nuclear weapons all over the place.

Besides, if we don't torture them there, we'd have to torture them over here.

And when those few bad apples are found they are swiftly prosecuted as soon as the press breaks the story.

Heck, we convicted 3 of killing two detainees at Bagram and they were quickly sentenced to 3 months, 2 months, and an administrative reprimand.

r flanagan

Wonderful ! Hurrah for McClain - and Lindsay
Graham . It's a better country tonight.

Cecil Turner

With McCain's ignorant treatment of the Swifties . . .

A minor winge: McCain's treatment of SBVT was more likely a result of not wanting his own record scrutinized.

Perhaps ,in fact probably , the case could be made that in WW2 our policies never sank to the level of our enemies.

Ya think? "Probably" even? With that ringing endorsement, what's left to say?

creepy dude

Torture. Works great. Yep. And there really were lots of witches in medieval Europe.

Meanwhile-what's with you sorry sack o'pussies?

President Bush just completely capitulated in the war on terror, and this is all the outrage you can muster???



I can see him stumbling into some lonely cave in Waziristan, sword in hand to surrender to bin Laden, saying "We dam' near licked you. If I'd been feeling better we would of licked you."

Cecil Turner

Torture. Works great. Yep.

That's "torture." And it looks like we have a recent datapoint for the efficacy argument:

Of the 12 high-value targets housed by the CIA, only one did not require water boarding before he talked. Ramzi bin al-Shibh broke down in tears after he was walked past the cell of Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the operational planner for Sept. 11. Visibly shaken, he started to cry and became as cooperative as if he had been tied down to a water board, sources said. [emphasis added]
Meanwhile-what's with you sorry sack o'pussies?

A question that might more profitably be directed at Ramzi bin al-Shibh, now that he's talking. (BTW, if you care, I think I prefer the Irish persona, creepy or otherwise, to the cheesier variety.)

r flanagan

OK Certainly.

creepy dude

Yeah CT-I saw the spoofing controversy and thought I'd go for it with a little Cheez-Wiz action. Plus I was pissed off.
I was on hold with my insurance company the whole time I was posting yesterday. So check the timestamps and you'll see the background to the increasingly mean snarkiness.

If I offended anyone-well I'm sure you deserved it.

fiesta Gold

I think fiesta Gold changes my life.


When you have LOTRO Gold, you can get more!

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