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December 04, 2005

Comments

kim

A description more specific than 'Wilson's wife' of which there were three to choose from. Probably more real world implications for this one, too.
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maryrose

Chuck Schumer should know all about leaks since he had his minions checking Steele's credit history and socialsecurity number.

clarice

I wouldn't add a thing to NYM's analysis.. It is right on point.

Dwilkers

OK then.

It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out who this is. How many female "former Soviet analyst(s) with spiked hair" can there be?

And if anyone really gives a tinker's damn about leaks then this, like the prisons, is a big one.

But nobody there really does care about that, this has been a big political game from the start, and this one, like the prisons leak, is an anti-Bush leak, so don't hold your breath.

owl

Dwilkers.. I consider the planes, secret prisons and the "outing" of the spiked hair to be deadly serious. This stuff going on at the WaPo and NYT fits my definition of treason.

Gary Maxwell

OT

I know our lefty trollers are stuck in the pharmacy line and cant return. Still wanted to do a little end zone strut, Rasmussen today has Bush at 47% approval rating. His rating is climbing by him defending his actions against craven Democrat attacks. Since Rasmussen lags a bit, ( he averages the last three days of polls ) his support today is likely even higher. This is the first day is some time since Bush has been this high. Since our lefty friends want to spout out recent polls I am sure they will point this out soon. Sure.

kim

Wouldn't happen without a free press, but thank God for that and thank God that there will always be traitors. What lovely moral examples they are.
=========================================

danking

Plame is fu#king Mickey Mouse compared to the other leaks cited regarding national security. (See the latest realease from the courts.)

The only reason Plamegate is getting investigated is because the MSM screamed bloody murder and Fitzgerald created a perjury trap.

Everything is in plain site but the MSM refuse to see it.

kim

Now, had the renditions mentioned in 2000 been dangerable, we really had something. C'mon, take credit.

Is dangerable rendering happening? If not, why not?
========================================

maryrose

Danking,
Right you are! MSM will continue not to see it because it doesn't jive with their agenda which is anything to marginalize the current powers that be.

DougJ

I'm with you Danking. In a fair world, Schumer (who was surely Priest's source) would be facing treason charges. This is one of the most astounding breaches of classified information I've ever read about. It puts that demonized "spiky haired" woman at great risk, much greater than that Valerie Plame ever faced hanging around the Langley commissary.

kim

I know a good hairdresser. No, not for her, for the ones whose tresses are about to tumble off tumbrils.
================

kim

Where's my knitting. I'm feeling particularly bloodthirsty today.
================================

DougJ

"His rating is climbing by him defending his actions against craven Democrat attacks. Since Rasmussen lags a bit, ( he averages the last three days of polls ) his support today is likely even higher."

I heard that Gallup is releasing a poll tomorrow that shows president Bush back over 50% approval rating. I think last week's speech really turned things around.

maryrose

Right you are Doug! The party af doom and gloom will not triumph.

kim

The Democrats were crazy to hang their collective hats on Joe Wilson's credibility and on failure in Iraq. I hope their pathology is not terminal.
============================================

clarice

But Pelosi's embrace of the Murthacrap is making it very hard for Hillary.Brilliant! Even Kerry..his backstrokes are making backstrokes..

kim

I hope I do not extend to MSM. They have outlived their usefullness, and won't realoze it until they are a joke. The punchline was a while ago, laughs soon, one hopes.

It is yet to be shown that the Democrats have outworn their usefulness. Certainly a two-party system has been good for the U. S. of A. Will it be conservative Republicans versus moderates, or a three party model, with moderate Republicans governing with the alternating consent of conservative Republicans, and Democrats, like in Kansas.
==============================================

maryrose

Pelosi is a sad case,symptomatic of what is wrong with the democrat party. Soft on terrorism and trying to stay relevant.

clarice

For almost 2 decades at least, it has been obvious the party is really a collective of special interests not necessarily coherent. Clinto was so smooth he could triangulate the difference--but now they are in sharp relief..What does a Catholic member of a large labor union living in Pennsylvania have in common with NOW? A Teamster in Chicago with Move On? Etc., etc.

Lew Clark

Bush can instruct the CIA Director to investigate the leaks in the CIA, Secretary of State to investigate State, etc.
But the real action should be in the Congress. But don't hold your breath for the spineless Republican majority to start the long overdue investigation of the widespread criminal release of classified information.

clarice

Re Pelosi--it's a pity Botox doesn't stiffen the spine..

kim

It's a muscle paralytic. That's what happened.
=================================================

kim

Many of the members of the parties of collection of special interests are basically unwilling members. As you point out, they have little in common with many of the members of other interest groups within the Party. The only really willing ones are the radical fringe, source of money, energy, but, alas, not of ideas. Populist? Hah!
=====================================

DougJ

"Re Pelosi--it's a pity Botox doesn't stiffen the spine.."

ROFLMAO

maryrose

Does Pelosi really think her San Francisco constituents typify red state America where most of the real world live?

maryrose

Does Pelosi really think her San Francisco constituents typify red state America where most of the real world live?

kim

Nobody she knows voted for Arnold.
===================================

DougJ

Maryrose, I think they really represent "pink state" America.

kim

There's there, there. Out there.
=================================

TP

Gary. Even more interesting was the Time poll which showed Bush down by 1% to Kerry if the race was to be run again. Not much real change since the election.

DougJ

"Even more interesting was the Time poll which showed Bush down by 1% to Kerry if the race was to be run again."

And that was before the post-speech approval surge we've seen the past few days in rasmussen. I have a feeling that if the election were held today, Bush would win even more handily than he did last year. That would shut up the poll-mongering moonbats.

kim

Kerry, run Swiftly.
====================

clarice

Doug, Glad you liked that..I'm feeling a bit*verklempt* David Duke doesn't like me much: http://www.davidduke.com/?p=466

maryrose

Kim
You really have agreat sense of humor!
Kerry run swiftly, indeed.

rob

you said:
Unlike Robert Novak, Dana Priest has not published the name, presumably at the request of the CIA (gee, why couldn't they have said that to Bob?).
------

But the CIA did ask Novak not to publish the name. It took about 1 min. on google.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164407,00.html

--snip--
In his syndicated column, Novak did not dispute that former CIA spokesman Bill Harlow (search) told him he should not print the covert officer's name, Valerie Plame (search), during conversations they had prior to Novak's July 14, 2003 column.

richard mcenroe

"I hope their pathology is not terminal."

Kim — I kind of hope it is. It's time the party of slavery, secession, segregation and surrender made way for a modern political movement.

Dwilkers

I think we need the competition the 2 party system has provided. I'd really like to see the Dems become serious about national security and be a viable party.

maryrose

Dwilkers.
The only way the Dems will be a viable party is if and when they become serious about national security and stop being soft on terrorism. It's why they lost the last election.

Tom Maguire

But the CIA did ask Novak not to publish the name. It took about 1 min. on google.

Thanks, Rob.

As I have said a million times, the CIA has an extra special procedure they employ when they don't want someone to publish - they have the DCI or an immediate underling call either the reporter (in this case, Novak), or the reporter's editor or publisher.

Put another way, the problem gets bounced up from the CIA press office to the top of the pyramid.

Maybe you can google for another minute and tell me why that did not happen with Novak and Plame.

opine6

Found this in Captain's Quarters comments. Seems Iraqi intelligence was in Africa as early as 1996, looking for uranium

Saddam's Shadow-The Clinton Adminitration knew about Iraq Uranium

Africa Energy & Mining | June 18, 1997 | Indigo Publications

SECTION: MINING; DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO; N. 207 LENGTH: 787 words
HEADLINE: Saddam's Shadow

BODY: It's not only diamonds and base metals that interest big mining companies and the latter are not alone in being interested in Katanga. In the delegation that the United States sent to Kinshasa on June 2 under its ambassador to the United Nations, Bill Richardson, the state department's African affairs department was represented by Marc Baas, director for Central Africa. (Susan Rice, director for African Affairs at the National Security Council, has just been appointed under secretary of state for African affairs in succession to George Moose). Baas was accompanied by a representative of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and several Defense Department officials. The mission also visited Lubumbashi and met with officials from Gecamines and provincial authorities.
AEM's sources claim it wasn't the small research reactor that General Electric installed in 1977 at the university of Kinshasa, and which ceased operating in 1990, that interested the NRC and the military men, but rather the Shinkolobwe uranium deposit. Its resources are negligible from a commercial viewpoint when weighed against those in Namibia and Niger and new discoveries like France's Cogema has just made in western Canada. They weren't negligible from the security standpoint, however. The Americans are concerned over a visit to Katanga by the head of the Iraqi Baath party's international relations section, Shabi Al Maliki, around a year ago. He, too, showed an interest in Katanga's uranium, and last February another high-ranking Iraqi official reportedly held talks in Kinshasa with the mines minister in the last government of the Mobutu era, Banza Mukalay. The uranium is thought to have also figured in Libya's proposals in 1995 to supply oil to Zaire in exchange for ore.


Richardson said on June 7 that president Laurent Kabila had given permission for a UN mission to come to the country to investigate the plight of Hutu refugees starting from July 7. Richardson qualified the green light as "a breakthrough on the human rights and humanitarian front." For his part, Brian Atwood, director of U.S.AID, announced in Brussels on June 11 that potential donors would shortly meet for talks on aiding the Democratic Republic of Congo. But such assistance would be conditional on Congo respecting human rights, Atwood indicated. He added that Washington wanted the Kabila government to succeed because if it did not this could result in violence spreading to other countries. He issued an appeal to all governments to use their influence to halt atrocities which various reports indicate are occurring in the eastern part of the country. He said that "organized groups and independent groups" were attempting to strengthen their positions in the eastern regions.

South Africa, for its part, is putting together a team to advise Kabila on reconstructing the country and reorganizing its finances (AEM 205). Deputy president Thabo Mbeki said last week the team would be ready to leave within days and that its members would be chosen in agreement with the Congo government "to discuss a variety of matters that impact on the socioeconomic situation."

He added that Congo's leaders had asked that it consist of officials from South Africa's "Reserve Bank, the economic ministries and people dealing with infrastructure, public administration and so on." Officials said south Africa's foreign minister, Alfred Nzo, discussed Kinshasa's needs with Congo foreign minister Bizima Karaha at the recent Organization of African Unity summit in Harare. The South African mission will be headed by deputy foreign minister Aziz Pahad.

LOAD-DATE: June 20, 1997

Tom Maguire

Or, rather than googling, you might have just followed the "say that to Bob" link I included in my original post.

There is other tedious stuff, but eventually I get to links and excerpts describing CIA press officer Harlow's account.

clarice

About the redacted pages in the Cooper case--Is it more likely than not that there were representations made there about Plame's status and national security which were deliberately false--representations from the CIA which tracked the referral?

If so(a) Did Goss correct the record?(b) when?

richard mcenroe

Dwilkers — I agree we need a two-party system. But the assumption that the Democratic Party must be one of them is one of the impediments to reforming the party.

r flanagan

Ok now I understand .When TM writes "the CIA did not intervene with Novak to halt
publication" he doesn't mean "the CIA did not intervene with Novak to halt publication". Got it.

kim

Well, they did and they didn't. Surely you can understand that. If not, let me know.
===============================================

kim

Oh, and try to bear in mind just who and what it was that provoked all the curiosity about Plame, insatiable curiosity. Was it her spiky hairdo? Her demure eyeshades? Her twins?
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kim

This sojourn en el ciudad angelico is more Okie than '49er; more fleeing a desperate past than embracing a fantasy future.
================================================

r flanagan

Kim, Got it. I wondered "What part of TM's statement [the CIA did not intervene with Bob Novak to halt publication] didn't I understand " ?

I foolishly thought TM meant the CIA did not
intervene with Bob Novak to halt publication.

Now I understand.

kim

Do you understand that they both did and did not?
==================================================

kim

Alright: In the 'did not' column sits the initial disclosure to Novak by the info officer. In the 'did' column lies his later call to Novak asking him not to publish. One might also consider all the dids and did nots done and not done by other interested parties with respect to negotiating with the powers at the further barriers to disclosure, that is editors and publishers.
==============================================

Rick Ballard

Gee, Kim - I kinda thought that the C f'ng I f'ng A might own one of those computer thingies and be able to look up a name right off the bat - maybe even have some sort of cross referencing goodie with cover names and aliases - sort of like a spy type thing.

Kinda makes ya wonder who put the 'Whoa, boy' out to start the second goround. Or maybe they still do it all on 3 X 5 cards and a couple of them got stuck together. Novak asked about Valerie Wilson and that card was stuck under the Valerie Plame card.

Gosh, I feel so safe knowing that thousands of extraordinarily competent people are working away at Langley right now just to protect me.

dave

Tom, I followed your link and all I found was this--

"[Harlow] said he warned Novak, in the strongest terms he was permitted to use without revealing classified information, that Wilson's wife had not authorized the mission and that if he did write about it, her name should not be revealed."

But I couldn't find anything about this---

"CIA has an extra special procedure they employ when they don't want someone to publish - they have the DCI or an immediate underling call"

How do you know that? Also, how do you know Harlow's level of authority and whether or not he qualifies as an immediate underling?

kim

dave, see above.
=================

creepy dude

Wow. Look at this place. One Instapundit link too many.

dave

I did "see above." The questions I asked are not answered above.

Cecil Turner

Doug, Glad you liked that..I'm feeling a bit*verklempt* David Duke doesn't like me much: link

Clarice, that is hi-frickin'-larious. I mean, that was a good article and all, but how in the world did you get David Duke to dis you on his official website, fresh on the heels of his "dissing America in Syria" tour? You can't buy buzz like that!

By the way, does anybody find statements like this just slightly distasteful (whilst US Marines are actively engaged against insurgents on the Iraq/Syria border):

Duke expressed appreciation of Syria under the leadership of President Bashar al-Assad, saying he would do his bets to convey "the real peace-loving Syrian" stances to peoples across the world. [?]
Maybe it's just me, but just seeing him spout his neo-Nazi crap makes me want to grab him by his skinny little neck and kick his bit*h a** around a bit. Seeing him do it in Syria just kicked it up a notch.

clarice

Maybe he's just on a Jay Rockefeller pilgrimage..LOL (How did I get him to diss me like that is my little secret..%^)


kim

dave, your questions are subsumed in 'did and did not'.
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kim

Did you call him a Mammy Boy?
================================

Clarice

Actually, I did nothing except write the article.(But the real hate mail began the minute I started writing that Joe Wilson was a liar--and that came from the other end of the political spectrum.) Maybe VIPS forwarded it to him.

kim

The mail from the extreme left on this is so hateful because they can't believe they are stuck with Joe and terrorists to support. This wasn't the way it was supposed to be. Yet there is just so much delusion that they can't just move on, or back away, or whatever. It's just killin' 'em, and you're getting the last radiations of a dying star.
==================================================

Rick Ballard

From the original Novak piece:

Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him.

Is it known who “the CIA says” was? I don’t recall any focus on that sentence but isn’t there an inference there that the CIA outed Val? Or does the CIA always go to former ambassadors through their wives?

If you pull the SAO sentence out it becomes:

Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him.

Were the SAO's just confirming what Novak already had from a CIA source? I'd never noticed that before.

Cecil Turner

Maybe VIPS forwarded it to him.

Possibly, but (no offense) I suspect you just got lucky. I'd certainly be pleased if some utterly contemptible chucklehead decided to single me out for hate mail. Cheers.

Clarice

I'm sure you're right, Cecil.

Rick, I think that is so interesting . Was it Harlow? Was my original belief that Tenet had given him the first stuff, told him to double check with Harlow, right?

kim

It has been pointed out before that Novak only says that the SAO said Wilson'wife suggested sending him. There is no direct link of Val to the CIA by the SAO at least according to Novak.
================================================

Rick Ballard

Why not Armitage and Libby - with Libby doing an "I heard that, too."?

It could have gone Tenet (original source), Armitage, Libby and then to Harlow - who had a fire lit under him by one of the fellows that Goss fired later, who had immediately realized that the whole WMD group was about to be compromised.

Tenet then refused to make the double secret probation call to Novak to kill the story - for good reason.

kim

So how did it get referred? Was it in a pile of papers to be signed?
===========================

kim

It would explain the medal. We understood they pulled a fast one on you, too.
=================================

topsecretk9

The left is all a twitter over David Corn's posts that he casually floated out he was also a friend of V.Nov's. Over at RockPaperScissors he has fallen from their good graces. This is getting HIGH-larious. I seem to remember there was some eyebrow raisers here that V.Nov was a friend of Luskin. Now it appears she is a friend of Corn's. Still no word yet if she is also a F.O.B.

topsecretk9

Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him.

Rick, your right. Deconstructing the sentence like you did and then re-reading it again it almost sounds like

"Two senior administration officials [ALSO]told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report."

Which is why Rove said "you heard that too"? Novak asked him about what Novak already knew from the CIA.

clarice

kim--I do recall reading that Tenet signed it in a pile of reoutine papers--that it was not particularly highlighted for him.

clarice

I have always believed that Harlow would not on his own have given this info to Novak without Tenet having told Novak first and giving him the okay to mention that fact and just double check the details..

Gabriel Sutherland

I wonder if Melissa Boyle Mahle is friendly with Dana Priest.

Oh my. Ms. Priest just so happens to have interviewd Ms. Mahle on CSPAN's BookTV.

Then again, maybe Priest just talks to Pincus. It seems that Pincus talks to everybody.

clarice

Do you think she was his source? She left the agency in 2002.
I figure there's a regular rat conga line to Pincus.

topsecretk9

OP...more and more calls to

"Invesigate the CIA"!


Are the CIA leakers "twisting" intelligence?

"...On June 9, 2003, the New York Times reported captured terrorist Abu Zubaydah had told CIA interrogators there was no link between Iraq and al Qaeda. (Headline: "Captives deny Qaeda worked with Baghdad.") Only a year later, when the Senate Intelligence Committee issued its own report on intelligence in Iraq, did the full context of the Zubaydah quote become clear. The unabridged quote included this statement: "Abu Zubaydah indicated that he had heard that an important al Qaeda associate, Abu Musab Zarqawi, and others had good relationships with Iraqi intelligence."

Why did the CIA leaker not include that quote in his or her discussions with the Times reporter? Was the agency cherrypicking its intelligence? "

r flanagan

Kim ,
If TM meant that the CIA didn't really try
very hard to stop Novak , he should have
written that the CIA didn't really try very
hard to stop Novak , not that it didn't try at all. Instead he misinformed his readers.
That's wrong.

Jim Rockford

Novak had said he did not take the CIA Press officer seriously because in other cases, where he came upon sensitive information and was going to publish it; upon contact with the CIA Press officer he received a personal call from George Tenet or a DCI aide asking him not to publish certain things. These requests according to Novak he always honored.

This was in explanation for why he went with identifying Valerie Wilson in his column.

This strongly suggests that Tenet was OK with leaking Plame's identity. Given that neither he nor his subordinates followed prior procedure and called and asked Novak NOT to publish. Tenet has never denied Novak's descriptions of witholding information in prior columns at Tenet's direct request.

topsecretk9

That was a good catch Gabriel!

Did you realize that Melissa was also a signatory on the VIPs inspired letter about Plame? As Larry C. Johnson writes...

"The attached letter was sent earlier today to the White House and copied to members of the Senate and House leadership. The group of former and retired intelligence officers are bipartisan, representing a variety of political views. We are agreed on one thing, we are Americans and believe this country is worth defending."

Ah yes Larry, This was not hard to find.

So Larry is in contact with Melissa and Plame. Larry is a quoted CIA source for the Post. Melissa is interviewed by Preist. Pincus, Priest. HMMM.

Don't suppose that all these guys are "friends" who do things like have, oh I don't know, like say have "drinks" do you?

Gabriel Sutherland

Could be Robert Richer. Only a couple months ago he retired from the CIA, as "the second-ranking official in the CIA's clandestine service", and spoke to Pincus and Priest about it.

topsecretk9

Huh!

" "This situation has been very hard on her, professionally and personally," said Melissa Boyle Mahle, a former C.I.A. case officer and a friend of Ms. Wilson. "Not only have you removed from the playing field a very knowledgeable counterproliferation officer at a time when we really need her services. But before this she was on a fast track as a candidate for senior management at the agency. With something like this, her career will never recover."

Gabriel Sutherland

topsecretk9: I don't know if Mahle fits into the picture. She's another retired middle east expert that works for a firm that builds ties with the Saudis, much like Joe Wilson and the other American Arabists when they "retire".

Mahle works for "C & O Resources, Inc." according to her political contribution receipts. C & O is owned by Sandra Charles, a former Near East veteran of the State Dept. Charles left government to go work for Frank Carlucci when he was building the Carlyle Group. Charles later split to create a woman owned operation for retired Arabists.

One interesting note about Larry Johnson's Nov 15 letter is the names attached to it. All those names I recognize as regular media critics of everything Bush and foreign policy. Baer's the only one that I have seen make statements in the media favorable to some of the White House's policies in the ME.

topsecretk9

Gabriel:
I don't either. One thing it does lead me to believe it the Media as a whole are one big mess of uncreative lazy bones. And dishonest bunch of lazy bones that quote Larry C. Johnson like he is some disinterested sidenote. I bet these guys only have 2 or 3 sources (all retired) that they have pre-programed in their cells whenever the beat goes in the "area of expertise" and are reliably anti-Bush.

But, like everyone she has a Blog!

Gabriel Sutherland

topsecretk9: Hahah. "never recover"? Why, she could just go work for C & O Resources, Inc. It appears that the former Commercial Counselour, Charles Kestenbaum, at the US Embassy in Saudi Arabia did just that when he established he could "never recover".

Gabriel Sutherland

Ouch. It's late. What day is tomorrow? It's so late it is already today.

Time to solve the riddle in my sleep.

Marion

"Unlike Robert Novak, Dana Priest has not published the name, presumably at the request of the CIA (gee, why couldn't they have said that to Bob?). "

They did.

From Associated Press:

WASHINGTON - Columnist Robert Novak broke his silence Monday about his disclosure of an undercover CIA operative's identity, defending himself against a former agency official's account that he twice warned Novak not to publish the name.
In his syndicated column, Novak did not dispute that former CIA
spokesman Bill Harlow had told him during conversations before his July 14, 2003, column, in which he named covert officer Valerie Plame, that he should not do so.

How irresponsible of you to have a blog where you post fiction as fact. I've never seen this blog before, but you can be sure I won't return.

You're an ideological hack, nothing but a propagandist.

kim

Marion, did you miss my discussion of the fact that the CIA did and did not try to get Novak to not publish. They could have kept him from publishing; they did not. As RF points out above we are arguing over how HARD they tried. Well if they could have, and didn't, they didn't try hard enough. Functionally, if they didn't try hard enough, and they could have, then they didn't. Your making a big deal of this just accentuates that they didn't stop Novak. Why didn't they?

Do ends characterize the means?

You've never seen this blog before, but how can we be sure you've seen it this time?
===============================================

Marion

What was Novak's excuse for outing Brewster Jennings, the long-operating CIA front company that Valerie Plame and other CIA operatives "worked" for?

Are you seriously suggesting that Novak thought the CIA would have no problem with his destroying a cover agency set up to protect NOCs and their operations?

There is no special procedure that kicks into action when a journalist is set to write about classified information. When a journalist interviews somebody at the CIA, that link is where that journalist gets the yea or nay about the publishing of classified info. The idea that Novak (or any journalist) is free to publish classified information unless he gets a personal ixnay from the Director of the CIA is preposterous. Egomaniac that Novak may be, not even he believes that he can only be warded off a story if the head of the CIA calls him personally.

This isn't the first time that Novak has been used by Karl Rove to leak a story. Rove was fired by Bush 41 for it.

Rove and Libby had been shopping the Plame story for weeks, and only to MSM organizations which weren't taking the bait and publishing. The White House could leaked the story to any one of their friends in the rightwing media who would have been only too happy to publish Plame's name, but they didn't. The White House wanted this story to come out in MSM. When MSM didn't publish, the White House went to Novak with whom they (Rove) had a history of leaking sensitive material.

Novak knew exactly what was at stake and he concocted this nonsensical "misunderstanding" story about what "don't publish her name" meant.

Dwilkers

Marion, Marion.

TM's wording was a bit unfortunate but if you had read the blog for a while you'd know this point has been explored in excruciating detail.

It is really not in dispute (well, not outside tinfoil hat land) that the CIA did not follow the normal drill they should have followed if they wished Novak to withhold Plame's name.

kim

Marion is proof that the vacuum of this swirling edifice is attracting new interest. Marion, are you seriously arguing that the CIA failure to stop Novak was not from lack of will to do so?
================================================

Dorf

Marion: before you leave the blog bring me a cup of dunkin' donuts coffee and a dount with spinkles on top.

Marion

"Marion, did you miss my discussion of the fact that the CIA did and did not try to get Novak to not publish. They could have kept him from publishing; they did not. As RF points out above we are arguing over how HARD they tried. Well if they could have, and didn't, they didn't try hard enough. Functionally, if they didn't try hard enough, and they could have, then they didn't. Your making a big deal of this just accentuates that they didn't stop Novak. Why didn't they?"

The procedure to get a reporter to not publish is to say, "Don't publish."

There are no hoops that the CIA must jump through. The agreement between the clandestine agencies of the U.S. and the press is one of good faith, "We will give you as much information as we can without compromising the security of our operations, and if we say that something isn't for publication, that has to be taken at face value."

Novak wasn't cleared to receive classified information. If the information officer at the CIA tells him that Plame's name shouldn't be published (and the name of her cover employer), that's that. What is this "convince me" argument? The information officer at the CIA was being coy with Novak? The information officer was expressing a personal, but not the agency's, wish? What part of no don't you understand?

kim

I heard of a young nun once, starting a job as a chaplain at a hospital, who made a hit with the ER staff bright and early one morning by explaining that she didn't even believe in God in the morning until she had had some coffee.
=============================================

Dorf

I'm a believer alright, but the Joe helps the experience.

kim

Where's Jeff when we need him?
=================================

kim

OK, Marion, that was a swing and a foul tip. Let's go through the motions again. Why did the CIA not stop Novak, when they had the means to do so?
================================================

Marion

"It is really not in dispute (well, not outside tinfoil hat land) that the CIA did not follow the normal drill they should have followed if they wished Novak to withhold Plame's name."

What isn't in dispute is that the CIA followed exactly their time-honored procedure: Journalists talk to information officers, information officers specify what can and can't be published, journalists comply, end of story until next time.

At no time after Novak was told not to publish Plame's name did Novak say to Harlow, "No, I'm going to publish her name, in spite of your telling me not to." How would Harlow, how would the CIA, know that they would have to do more to stop Novak? This "procedure" that you keeping talking about is non-existent. When a CIA information officer says don't publish, that's it. It's not a matter of a personal opinion, "Golly gee willikers, I don't think it's a good idea to publish that." What Harlow was telling Novak was the agency's position.

The only way to stop Novak, apparently, was to kill him.

TP

I'm confused. Has somebody been charged with leaking classified information to Novak?

Ryan

Marion-

You said:

"Rove and Libby had been shopping the Plame story for weeks, and only to MSM organizations which weren't taking the bait and publishing. The White House could leaked the story to any one of their friends in the rightwing media who would have been only too happy to publish Plame's name, but they didn't. The White House wanted this story to come out in MSM. When MSM didn't publish, the White House went to Novak with whom they (Rove) had a history of leaking sensitive material."

And you call TM an ideological hack and propagandist? Give me a break. Please cite me even one legitimate source for your claims that Libby and Novak were shopping the story for weeks. Not even Fitz claims that. Please also identify the presumably large number of MSM folks who received the leak from Rove and Libby but declined to publish. If your answer to the last question is Judy Miller, well then I'm laughing already.

I'll be waiting with baited breath . . .

Dwilkers

Actually Marion, you're post is little better than the posts from people that criticize folks over typos.

Well worse actually, since you use it to come to "You're an ideological hack, nothing but a propagandist.".

Since you missed it, here's the point of the original blog; leaks of highly important classified information to the media are continuing, in a time of war, and they appear to be sourced directly from the CIA, and have a pattern of undermining the decisions and/or actions of the executive branch.

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Wilson/Plame