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December 09, 2005



woof woof


Previous articles done by both Pincus and Kristof suggest that they knew all about Mrs. Wilson long before all of this happened...

Jim E.

I know how you love to flog the NY Times best, but the Wash Post's boilerplate summary sentence of the Plame investigation in today's paper is almost identical to the NY Times sentence of yesterday. The only way it's different (and actually worse, I'll admit) is that it says White House, as opposed to government officials, are being investigated"

"Fitzgerald has spent two years investigating whether White House officials leaked Plame's name in the summer of 2003 to discredit allegations made by her husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, that the Bush administration twisted intelligence in the run-up to the Iraq war."

I blame Kristof.


Hey the "reader representative" at my local paper doesn't even return e-mail. Take what you can get I guess.

A bit off topic, or sorta:

Time reporter interviewed in CIA leak investigation

You've probably seen it, but I haven't seen anyone link it. Just an AP report, about the only thing of interest is the length of time of the interview - "more than an hour" - which is just about as short as it can get I'd guess.


Yes, considering the swearing in and preliminaries(like spelling names and giving addresses and listing those present for the reporter), that is as short as it can get.


Jim E, I think Fitz did confine his inquiry to purported leaks from the WH which is why I also think that Woodward's source was not asked in his initial interview about what HE told reporters. Rather, I think he was only asked what he (or his agency, I think DoS) told Rove or Libby.


the Wash Post's boilerplate summary sentence of the Plame investigation in today's paper is almost identical to the NY Times sentence of yesterday.

I saw that, and for a moment a cloud passed overhead and my brow furrowed.

However, the WaPo is engaged in their own Pincus/Woodward cover-up, so my paranoia is unabated.

However, I do not fly out of Miami...


However, I do not fly out of Miami...

HAH TM, NO lemon puckered scarved women tailing you either?


There are several items of interest in the


I tried to say:

There are several items of interest in the WaPo story today on Fitzgerald deposing Novak yesterday as well as Luskin last Friday.


The editors at the NYT, WaPo, Time, Newsweek and NBC/MSNBC must all go through hoops every day to reconcile their internal knowledge of the Plame affair with what they have already revealed. Add to that the usual sloppiness in checking facts and dates; often the print media picks up on their publication dates, not when an event actually occurred. Anyone who follows an issue closely (like the Plame affair for nearly 2-1/2 years) can recognize errors in much of the reporting on any issue.


By far the most stirring part of Mr. Rove's testimony was when he called you an asshole. While not widely reported, it is nevertheless important to note that Rove's testimony in this regard was entirely factually correct.


When I read all of this, I am struck by one thought. Our MSM is so very respectful in all this process with only Miller (a person that spent 85 days in jail and about the only one of them that never wrote a word)having a boot print on her behind. They make me proud, they have such grave respect for Fitz. They never schedule those nightly sliming sessions, I use to watch about SPs. They treat leaks as the 'highest order' and afford privacy to the witnesses. You never see the connection of Cooper's wife to the DNC plastered all over the NYT front page. Nary a breakfast menu displayed to the world, exposing a SHY, quiet, nibbling woman. Respect is the byword for Fitz and his merry band of witnesses and privacy for all concerned. Ain't it sweet....


I enjoy your irony and satire Owl, This whole investigation appears tainted to me at this point because C Y A seems to be the
order of the day.
Shuster is again shilling that Rove is in legal jeopardy. Something about a winter or spring conversation, and when he talked to V>Novak.
atthews has asked Shuster to explain the situation twice they are all confused.


I enjoy the satire and irony in yor statement. MSNBC is convinced Rove is in trouble again. Conflicting testimony between Luskin and Novak. This has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous.


Why can't Luskin be telling the truth instead of Novak. As for Schuster, he has no credibility. A week before Libby's indictment, he was talking about multiple indictments and charges related to the Bush Administration's misuse of prewar intelligence. MSNBC panders to the far left kooks. I thinks Shuster makes nutty stuff up.

I'm beginning to get tired of this case, I'm tired of Fitzgerald, and I'm tired of MSNBC.

Of course, if V. Novak gets indicted, I'll enjoy it again.


I agree with you . Im starting to get all tapped out waiting for the other shoe to drop.


So apparently today was Ms. Flame's last day.


maryrose: there was one media report that intrigued me. It was from Bob Franken of CNN about a week or so ago. It indicated that the problem was that Fitzgerald thought a conversation between Novak and Rove was actually Luskin and Novak. I haven't heard anything about that, but that could be the problem. That brilliant Fitz got confused.


I guess Pete Yost is a lost cause. That AP article was hack this, hack that. He made the NYT look disingenuous.


Methyl Xanthine Alert:

I meant he made the Old Gray Lady look an Ingenue.


I hope that CNN report is accurate because that sheds a whole lot of new light on this situation. Keep me posted.


It indicated that the problem was that Fitzgerald thought a conversation between Novak and Rove was actually Luskin and Novak

Franken said it the other way around.

However, there was a key conversation, sources say, and there may have been a misunderstanding by the special prosecutor that a conversation that he was attributing to Rove with Viveca Novak of "Time Magazine" may, in fact, have really been held by Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin. CNN 12/02/05

Well, there is incredible excitement in the air today - the Times defies my prediction and runs another (easy and inarguable) correction:

An article on Dec. 2 about the C.I.A. leak investigation misstated a word in a quotation from an article about the case that appeared on Time magazine's Web site in July 2003. The Time article said "some government officials" - not "some administration officials" - had told Time and the syndicated columnist Robert Novak that "Valerie Plame is a C.I.A. official who monitors the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction." (Later developments in the leak case revealed that in fact the information had been disclosed by administration officials, I. Lewis Libby Jr. and Karl Rove.) (Go to Article)

I am going to try for double or nothing on the "Pinc'ed for the very first time" correction".


TM, is that Times correction an improvement? It clearly implies, "we got the quote a little wrong, but it turned out to be accurate, because it was Libby and Rove." But, as far as we know, Libby didn't talk to Novak, and Rove just said, more or less, "I heard that too." So, someone else -- who may or may not be an administartion offical -- told Novak that "Valerie Plame is a C.I.A. official who monitors the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction."


Well that didn't take long....Valerie's first "official "POST" CIA leak?

OP...surprise, surprise it's "Tom Hamburger", what a shock.

How odd that that the Italians (via SEIXON were actually warning the US about the documents, now we hear (??)

"French spy service began repeatedly warning the CIA in secret communications that there was no evidence to support the allegation....

...found no evidence to support it, and warned the CIA -- was extensively corroborated by a former CIA official and a French government official...

...Chouet and his staff noticed that the details of the allegation matched those in fraudulent documents that an Italian informant had earlier offered to sell to the French.

"We told the Americans, `Bull It doesn't make any sense,'" Chouet said.

Chouet said the information was contained in formal cables delivered to CIA offices in Paris and Langley, Va. Those communications did not use such coarse language, he said, but they delivered the point in consistent and blunt terms."

OFFERED? Hmmm...even "all things Niger forgeries"Laura Rozen said that the "Italian" SOLD them to France and only speculates they MAYBE sold them to Italy...hmmm

Now, Chouet is the one whose got his "culottes" in a bunch because the FBI is COLLABORATING with the Italians on the "re-opened" is a flavor of his hissy fit

" Contrarily to how much Pollari and Letta (political authority of the intelligence) has reported, is not the French to transmit documents is made to Washington, but, to the contrary, they are the Americans who transmit those documents to the French and ask to verify of the reliability: the French verify and, sin from the July 2002, of it they denounce the infondatezza. "

Here is a flavor of via IL GIORNALE:

"As regards the role of Alain Chouet, the number two at the DGSE (who fell from grace and was removed from his position due to having deviated the French services by conducting illegal investigations into the affairs of President Chirac), it would be interesting to know something about his contacts with Martino in Brussels in 1999-2000, a crucial – and still partially unknown – moment in the Niger-gate affair.

The ‘prints’ of the diplomats are all over Niger-gate, this is evident. The dossier was not produced in Rome, it was catapulted into the ‘eternal city’ from another country, one which the joint SISMI-FBI will be examining in order to expose the facts once and for all."

Now, tell me...why is "retired" Chouet all the sudden speaking up, after the FBI hook up with SISMI, to "debunk" Martino? and Um why does Tom Hamburger become the new "Kristof/Pincu"??

Tom, you know is the only "reporter" who "reported" Pat called Joe and head extra special info on the Men in Clack canvassing the neighborhood.

Are certain people a little nigerexia nervosis?


That LATimes article is just incredible. How stupid do they think we are? If Chouet is correct about warning the CIA, then why does the White House owe an explanation?

From the inside(Where am I?) it is obvious that that article is disinformation, plain and simple. I suppose there ought to be a law. Well, there is one, about good information driving out bad. An elementary school student could read that article and wonder why the CIA isn't explaining itself rather than the White House.


TS,My thoughts exactly when I saw that piece. On the other hand it's a boon--read it and you know (a) who is desperate about what the investigation will find and (b) what direction they want us to go--i.e., do the opposite to find the prize. My goodness that is a dumb move on their part.


It looks like Seixon is ahead of me on these questions. Still, what is the likelihood that Chouet if full of shiet? Is he the Richard Clarke of France? Or the Mark Felt?

Also, if the FBI has been investigationg the source of the Yellow Cake forgeries for 2 and a half years, why is Chouet just getting exercised now? Are they getting close?


Clarice is ahead of me, too. That article, if is represents real strategy rather than complete idiocy by the LATimes, is disastrous. What do you bet Chouet ends up dead soon. I said it would get grand.


Of course it's disinformation. Who cares any more except those trying to cover up their role in the forgeries?

And how could anyone completely debunk the notion that Iraq tried to buy some in Africa? You could I suppose have a contrary claim if the claim was as these and other reporter earlier misreported over and again that Iraq BOUGHT some yellowcake in Niger,but that doesn't work as well on a claim that Iraq TRIED TO BUY some.
On the other hand it is LA..Maybe the audience is a lot dumber. ;^)


It isn't even very clever disinformation. But the disturbing thing to me is that the meme persists. You could only swallow the internal contradictions in that piece if you were already convinced of the veracity of Joe Wilson and the dastardliness of the White House. It's virtually fairy tale stuff.

JM Hanes

Consider the fact that the French are supposedly in charge of controlling unranium flow and things pretty much make sense, no?


Are they getting close?

I think the most pronounced occurrence was the disclosure that FBI and Italy are working together...pretty obvious FBI knows Italy wasn't involved in this (and Chouet who is "retired" obviously realizes this too)

What is interesting to me is Rockefellar's comments on the re-opening of the investigation...I believe he said there was " some new info" or some such.

Could this have been Valeries revelations of "secret communiqués"?

If so, I think it is a sign that this thing has gotten to big for Val and joe to manage. In a paranoiac state, it would seem beneficial to leak something like this. My bet...they never imagined the FBI would say "Okay, we'll do that...and we will work CLOSELY with the Italians"

I mean after-all, Chouet is blaming the US NOW!


God, it's like the cavalry arriving.


How's this. It was originally French disinformation, and they thought they could stop the war at will. They didn't count on CIA disinformation which counted on discrediting Bush. And MSM, because of their bias, was duped first, then went along with the charade first from political glee, later from self defense. Then again, maybe Martino's just greedy, and Joe's a vulgar and stupid opportunist. And the press doesn't know shit from shinola but have pretty looking shoes.

All a huge cobweb of lies. Fitz battling the giant spider.


I still wouldn't underestimate something less sinister--that such an obvious forgery was an inside practical joke between some bored CIA people at Langley and some of their counterparts in Italy that was not supposed to go beyond the Italians. Once it went beyond the Italians, the CIA pranksters were desperate to put out the fire. So, they hired Joe and told him (not so subtly) what the desired result was.


I would. I never imagine the French under Chirac as up to something LESS sinister.


C. Just a thought. I just think Chirac is a buffoon. It will be interesting to see how much digging the FBI will do inside the CIA.


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