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January 20, 2006

Comments

Kate

One expects an opposition party to oppose, but is it to much to expect some intellectual honesty or consistency.

The Democratic's entire strategy is oppose Bush.

kim

'Outsourced negotiations' may come back to haunt her. Is this her tin ear, or her husband's fundamental loathing of the polity?
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Dwilkers

Notice she avoids the NSA thing.

She isn't stupid like the rest of the left. Or perhaps more likely Bill has warned her off.

kim

'Outsourced negotiations' is very odd coming from the spouse of an aspirant to the Secretary-Generalship.
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drjohn

No, she isn't stupid, but she is depending heavily on the stupidity of followers and therefore is likely to find success.

Dwilkers

Let me rephrase that before I get flamed.

What I mean is more along the lines of 'stupid politically'.

fdcol63

If she has to "move to the center", it's clear that she's "out of the mainstream" and on the left.

Only the "stupid" people that drjohn refers to above could ever believe that she's "to the right" of Bush on defense.

nittypig

Complain all you like, but she's basically right. Playing footsie with the Europeans isn't helping to resolve the problem.

Of course such critisism would be more helpful if she suggested what she would do. Reading between the lines, she seems to be suggesting the North Korean model of 1994. That DID work well didn't it.

Nash

What are the components of US policy with regard to Iran from 2001 to the present? Have these been effective?

Toby Petzold

Hillary's remarks were rescued from the recycling bins of John Kerry's 2004 Presidential run. Outsourcing? Losing critical time in dealing with a dangerous country (think North Korea)? These are stupid complaints ---especially coming from a Democrat who was opposed to so-called unilateralism in Iraq. Why shouldn't our European allies have played a role in reining in the Iranians? Their economies are just as likely to go in the toilet as ours if the Iranians' oil goes off the market.

I wouldn't mind it so much if Hillary would just admit that the Europeans are worthless in either instance, but she won't do that. She'll just insinuate that Bush was somehow wrong to remain silent while the EU's efforts went forth. But you know that if Bush had done more to associate himself with them or to bang any more on the war drums, Democrats like Hillary would have accused him of interfering in the superior diplomatic efforts of our European betters.

Why is she allowed to get away with stuff like that?

The Unbeliever

She's generally right--leaving Iran to the EU and UN was doomed from the start--but will she stand by the logical conclusions from such a statement? I.e., certain of our allies are useless when it comes to serious foreign policy matters, so American unilateralism may be the preferred solution after all?

And in any case, I seem to remember one John "Global Test" Kerry who, not so long ago was his party's banner carrier for letting our allies carry some of the load...

richard mcenroe

Nash — Components of US Iran policy:

1) The Bush Admin declares Iranian nuclear ambitions to be a problem.

2) The Democratic Party shrieks: "You better not do anything unilaterally! You... you... you just better not!

3) Ditto NYT, networks, NPR, Air America (snork), etc.

4) Ditto UN

5) Ditto EU

6) Iran scorns 3,4,5

7) 2, 3, 4, 5 scream, "Dammit, why didn't Bush DO something?"

Did I miss anything?

Extraneus

I would think the insertion of significant miltary forces on both their eastern and western borders constitutes potentially effective components of US policy, considering the configuration of forces that were there before 2001.

Nash

richard, that parallels my recollection as well. In fact, I think it states it succinctly.

Am I to infer that the answer to my second question would then be "no?"

Are you saying that 2)-7) in your list have effectively blocked this administration from acting on its (quite correct) determinations in 1)?

Gabriel Sutherland

A must read on Iran appears in the Jan06 Atlantic Monthly. The piece, "The Point of No Return", by William Langewiesche, provides an essential backgrounder on the NPT, the IAEA, and why the world really cannot stop the spread of nuclear weapons.

Hillary might be imploring the "outsourcing" of non-proliferation, but, short of explicit use of hard power, there is little the United States could do to use diplomacy to stop Pakistan from selling nuclear knowhow to every nation that wanted it.

Langewiesche talks to nuclear proliferation reporter Mark Hibbs a lot in his piece. I recommend reading anything that Hibbs has written in the past 15 years. You can start with this 1996 interview with Frontline.

The Unbeliever

Exactly right, Extraneus. It's been said several times before, but it's worth repeating: if, back in 2003, you thought Iran or Syria was the real threat rather than Iraq, OIF was still the best option for the US simply, in part because it puts us within easy striking distance of both countries.

Gabriel Sutherland

The main problem with the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty is that nations that are not signatories to it are not bound to restrict their marketing of atomic energy. The natural outcome of atomic energy research is atomic weapons. A handful of nations have developed atomic energy and opted not to shoot for atomic weapons. However, the assumption that Iran or North Korea will follow the same path is to ignore the blatant examples in China, Pakistan, and India.

The NPT calls for atomic nations to assist other signatories in developing atomic energy. Although, we know this is an untenable long term crisis.

Hillary is not the first Democrat to attempt to talk tough about Iran. Barack Obama was practically calling for bombing of Iran last year, his first in the Senate.

maryrose

Hillary; She swings left-plantation remark
She swings right -Do more about Iran
Here in the red states we know what she is.
We don't buy the pander bear theatrics.

Gary Maxwell

Was not there much derision and snorting when a Bush speech coined the term "axis of evil"? Seems to me that it was front page stuff on the likes of the NYT. In retrospect exactly where was Bush wrong? For the dimwitted that would be North Korea, Iran, and Iraq.

The guy is a genius I say we start a campaign to repeal the 22nd amendment. It should be a bipartisan effort since Clinotn, Reagan and Eisenhower have all expressed sentiments that are at odds with the limitations of the 22nd amendments.

How about it AL are ya with me? ( toungue firmly planted in cheek, we got three more years to go!)

Lurking Observer

Nash:

So, to clarify:

"Going it alone" into Iraq (alone=w/ Australia, England, Spain, Italy, etc.) is wrong, presumably b/c the UN and France didn't join in.

"Not bilaterally negotiating" w/ North Korea (negotiating=giving them what they want) is wrong, even though we are giving Russia and China (as well as Japan and South Korea) plenty of time to get their points across to Pyongyang.

And now, "allowing the EU, UN, and IAEA to take the lead" is wrong, b/c it was ineffective.

I'm curious, is there any policy that you and yours would support, short of Bush, Cheney, and presumably the entire GOP leadership in the House and Senate resigning in favor of Gore/Kerry?

Cecil Turner

What are the components of US policy with regard to Iran from 2001 to the present?

I'd list 'em somewhat differently:

  1. Encourage EU negotiations, playing "bad cop" as necessary.
  2. Topple the regime to the East of Iran
  3. Topple the regime to the West of Iran
  4. Establish military ties with the countries North of Iran
Have these been effective?

We'll soon find out.

clarice

My plan for Iraq:Repeal the 22d Amendment and 12 bombers filled with JDams.

God Bless George Bush.

clarice

My plan for Iran:Repeal the 22d Amendment and 12 bombers filled with JDams.

God Bless George Bush.

clarice

I meant IraN..dammit..

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

I don't believe that Bush would want another term. Iran will be wrapped up (at least the nuclear program portion of the problem) well before he finishes his second term. I don't think 12 bombers will do the trick. 350 targets with some well hardened will take a bit more. Cecil could fill us in with a decent SWAG if he chose to do so.

I appreciate the fact that Bush is allowing the EU and the UN to reveal once again their profound ineptitude. Their dithering does no real harm, we weren't going to launch any strikes until after the elections anyway.

dorf

So call Hilly's bluff and let's do a few arclights over Iran. Bet the Dem's would still screech.

topsecretk9

Complain all you like, but she's basically right. Playing footsie with the Europeans isn't helping to resolve the problem

What happened to the "Global Test"?

"The top Democrat urged instead, "'We need to be cautious and be careful," arguing that Middle East experts with "a lot more experience and a whole lot more humility" think powersharing with European allies is the way to go."

clarice

Rick, McInerney who I trust says there are really only 12 critical sites and we could easily take them out with 12 bombers loaded with a full complement of bunker busters.

The Iranian people are for us. Any other option, including sanctions (assuming they could be agreed to and enforced) would only hurt them.

We should bomb those sites fast and arm and assist the anti-Mullahs pronto.

Nash

Lurking: "Going it alone" into Iraq (alone=w/ Australia, England, Spain, Italy, etc.) is wrong, presumably b/c the UN and France didn't join in.

Your words, not mine. The discussion, in case you missed it, was Iran.

"Not bilaterally negotiating" w/ North Korea (negotiating=giving them what they want) is wrong, even though we are giving Russia and China (as well as Japan and South Korea) plenty of time to get their points across to Pyongyang.

Your words, not mine. Again, the discussion was Iran.

And now, "allowing the EU, UN, and IAEA to take the lead" is wrong, b/c it was ineffective.

Your words, not mine. I asked richard if he was saying it was ineffective. It seemed as if he was saying as much, but I was not sure. I made (and make) no value judgment as to whether that was good or bad. I'm looking for information on where we go next, policy-wise. It is obvious that you won't be able to supply any light to the matter.

Gabriel Sutherland

Clarice: The long term policy question is the assumption that Iran, minus the mullahs, will eventually utilize atomic energy so as to free up petroleum for transportation refining.

Two things have to happen before an Iranian strike.

1) Iraqi oil needs a pipeline to the Mediterranean that skips Syria.

2) Iraqi oil production needs to return to at least pre-war levels, but ideally must increase output to assume the capacity that will be subtracted by a "lit" Iran.

topsecretk9

The left and Kerry spent 2 years disparaging the Bush Admin. (and our Allies) for their failed diplomacy with regards to France, Germany and the UN ....blah, blah, blah.

Now, of course the criticism is too much diplomacy blah, blah, blah.

Snakiness aside, don't you think this is a big mistake "politically" for Hillary?

I can imagine their are many in the WH very pleased that HRC is out, making the case (in a round-a-bout way) for pre-emption?

"...like Bush, a tough-talking Clinton left open the possibility of military action against Iran if it sought to acquire nuclear weapons. "We cannot take any option off the table in sending a clear message to the current leadership of Iran that they will not be permitted to acquire nuclear weapons," Clinton said..."

So, if Bush does act militarily, know with the endorsement of HRC, won't this inflame the KOS kids?

Also, just a question, just curious? I get the feeling she is just pandering to the Jewish bloc. Am I wrong?

steve sturm

My first thought on reading the headlines of her talk was that, finally, here's a Democrat who gets it on Iran.

But after reading the story, I realized I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up, as all she was really complaining about was that Bush let France and Britain take the lead in negotiations...

as if who was taking the lead would have mattered in the least. Apparently, she is as deluded as all the others who think that diplomacy, referring Iran to the UN, not letting their Olympic team participate or other half-baked measures (defined as not using the military) will accomplish what needs to be accomplished...

maryrose

tHE ONLY THING IN hILL'S HEAD AND ON HER AGENDA IS hILLARY FOR PRESIDENT IN 08. aLL ROADS LEAD TO THIS PATH AND DESTINATION. sHE HAS TUNNEL-VISION ABOUT THIS BUT ALAS SHE WILL BE DEFEATED BY mCcAIN , rUDY OR SOMEONE IN HER OWN PARTY.

Sue

Clarice,

I have my doubts about the Iranian people if we start dropping bombs. Not saying we shouldn't do that...just don't think the Iranian people will be too thrilled with it.

Cecil Turner

Cecil could fill us in with a decent SWAG if he chose to do so.

Sorry, I don't know enough about the targets and weapons, and wouldn't be able to share if I did. I also have a tough time remembering what's classified and what isn't, so feel constrained from technical discussions. FAS has a pretty good targeting overview here, but it avoids going into detail on allocation issues, and I won't either.

I would observe that there have been phenomenal advances in weapons precision in the last few years, and that has an obvious effect. There's also the practical consideration that though we certainly wouldn't want to, we'd be able to go back and hit 'em again if necessary. (As opposed to, say, Israel, for whom a second attack would be far less feasible.)

clarice

Sue, we are not talking carpet bombing but rather targeted bombing at 12 locations. There seems no democratic way to remove the mullahs:either there will be collateral damage to those near these sites or there will be a long bloddy civil war.

maryrose

Hardball: All agree, Scarborough Rita cosby and Tucker Carlson, Hillary's comments; House like a plantation is a political loser. Joe and Rita are from the South and said her comments aren't going to play down there. Michael Moore is the new Bin Laden. He is parroting the lefts comments.Rogue State by Blum jumped on Amazon.com.

Sue

Clarice,

I know they will be precision bombs. And if tht is what it takes, that is what it takes. I just don't think the Iranians will be all that thrilled about a strike against their country, no matter how much they want the Mullahs outta there...

Rick Ballard

Sue,

Do you think they would get so mad that they would storm our embassy and take hostages? Or conduct a thinly disguised terror campaign for 28 years?

I'm not about to get worked up over what a servile population will "think" about our taking out "their" nuclear program. They've tolerated living under the mad mullahs for this long without doing more than talking about a revolution and they tolerated the shah even longer before that. They'll get over it a lot better than we would get over their leader's use of nuclear weapons.

If your choice was being irritated or turned into a cinder, which would you choose?

Cecil,

Thank you for the reply. I didn't realize that you were circumscribed in being able to answer.

clarice

Sue, I recall that when we invaded Iraq, there were reports of Iranis on the border carrying signs saying,"bomb us next."

maryrose

I get nervous about another war because the aftermath is so unpredictable. For me the Iraq war was never about WMD. It was about removing Saddam Hussain who was and still is a crazy maniac. I wish they could have a revolution from within but I'm realistic enough to know that probably isn't going to happen.

Rick Ballard

Sue (and MaryRose),

Joe Katzman and Tom Holsinger at Winds of Change have a pair of articles (Joe's links back to Tom's) which lay out the long version of what I've been saying.

Hillary is simply getting on board the caboose of a train that is moving past the end of the platform.

The Iranians are out of time.

maryrose

Rick, A very interesting pair of articles. It really illuminates the situation over in Iran Thank you for the informative reference. Time to go celebrate my birthday!

clarice

Rick, they are surely running out of time, but I think the WOC article reminds me of many I read before the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which proved to vastly underestimate the US military, greatly exaggerate the likely problems, and missed altogether the Baathist revanchism.

What they all forget is that no military is stronger than the society from which it springs. In the WOC article I skimmed I noticed the Mullahs have parallel armed units. Think about that. Think about the kind of military you have where corruption and tribalism runs so deep.

Cheney was just in Saudi Arabia for secret talks.I 'd bet we are lining up ducks and drakes--trying to get all our allies to commit to promise to attack Iran if it makes the first move against any other state.

Iran just lost it's bet that it would turn Iraq into a dependent state and is trying yet again to be the big dog in the ME..I doubt that pleases any of its neighbors, save Syria.

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

They are a bit more dire about things than I am but Joe's 'solution' is precisely what I anticipate. Resolution of the Iranian problem involves taking out the nuclear program - bombing followed by reconaissance to ensure that it is demolished - followed by the complete destruction of all Iranian air assets and a fair amount of their armor. Then a US offer of a cease fire so that terms can be dictated. If the offer of a cease fire is not accepted or our terms are rejected then the methodical destruction of Iranian infrastructure should begin and continue until the terms become acceptable.

Terrie

Sorry to interrupt, but AP Breaking News has a Scooter update.

"Lawyers for a former top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney told a federal judge Friday they want to subpoena journalists and news organizations for documents they may have related to the leak of a CIA operative's name.

In a joint filing with prosecutors, lawyers for I. Lewis 'Scooter' Libby, 55, warned U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton that a trial likely will be delayed because of their strategy to seek more subpoenas of reporters' notes and other records."

You can find the article here: http://tinyurl.com/bfmz9.

clarice

Yes, Rick..much more likely scenario I think.

Peter

The reasons it was left to Europe to negotiate first,apart from the good cop bad cop routine were,Iran would not have given concessions to the Great Satan,there would have been confrontation from day one.
Secondly when talks broke down there would simply have been nowhere else to go,this way thee is still another level.

Iraq was always about Iran,Iraq was merely low hanging fruit and the only possible staging point for an invasion,Afghanistan being as it is land locked.

If it ever happens we will soon know because the first thing to disappear will be the Iranian Airforce.

Rick Ballard

First - Iranian submarines
Second - Iranian surface ships
Third - Iranian Air Force
Fourth - Iranian Nuclear Sites
Fifth - Iranian Armor

and Mad Mullah of Omaha is going to cancel a great number of life policies when the first sub doesn't respond to radio contact.

clarice

The subs and ships first? Why? To keep them from any mischief in the Gulf of Hormuz?

Speaking of their air force? Are any of their planes functional? Are the mechanics in our hire?

Does anyone have a map of the sites--Again McInerney says only 12 are critical. Do we know which ones they are?

(Did I tell you I'm a killer player of Battleships. I always can tell where they're hiding? LOL

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

The Saudi, Iraqi and other pumping stations have to be protected. Losing Iranian exports for a bit would not be that big a deal - the Iraqis would be able to cover a bit of the loss and good ole Hugo would certainly take the opportunity to fill the coffers by jacking up Venezuelan production.

Losing Saudi production (as well as Iranian) is a whole different ball game.

I should have put communication nets in at the top. Leaving them blind and deaf from the get go would be a matter of some urgency. The first three objectives would be 98% done within 24 hours (he said, quasi confidently). After those are done there really isn't much to hurry about. There won't be any 'race to Tehran' so we can afford to be very methodical. Some of the nuke sites are in cities which means that civilians should be offered time to leave - except that no trucks would be allowed to leave at all.

kim

Isn't it nice to know we can drive the newest model Petroleum Reserve right out of the showroom?
===============================================

clarice

See..It's a whole lot better than those WOC scenarios.But it will be a very elaborate choreography for a few days, and if they don't have McInerney on tv 24/7 calmly explaining (accurately) what's going on, I'll be very angry.

Now, how to get Congress onboard.

clarice

Here's a map with the 12 major facilities http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/images/iran_map_nuke-s.gif and the details: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/images/iran_map_nuke-s.gif

clarice

I meant Straits of Hormuz , of course.(A chorus of the midnight Hour,maestro--a signal that the special rules are in affect for postings.

richard mcenroe

"Hillary The Hawk Circles Over Iran..."

You'll never get your birdwatching merit badge if you can't tell the difference between a hawk and a wattled buzzard...

clarice

Wicked mean, Richard. She thinks she can run another "listening campaign" I think. I think she's wrong..Although I doubt any reporter will ask her to explain the apparent discrepency in her statements on Iran.

Jim

'Outsourced negotiations' may come back to haunt her. Is this her tin ear, or her husband's fundamental loathing of the polity?

Kim - I have long contended that Hillary Clinton is politically tone deaf. Her husband seems to hold her political skills in high regard, and many have believed that he would not have achieved anything beyond Arkansas if it were not for her. I believe that the truth is quite the opposite.

Whether she achieves anything on her own and/or beyond New York remains to be seen. I do hope that she continues to give her trademark strident speeches, however. The American public will soon have had enough of her, and that is all to the good.

J. Puckett

Great find, Tom. Honest Democrats should vigorously oppose comments like this.

Cowgirl

1. Rick, The Cowboy and I were discussing this last evening. We came to the same conclusions as you regarding what should be done in Iran, even down to dictating the terms of ceasefire. All those people understand is power. If you are the biggest, baddest bear in the valley.... you had better act like it.

2. About Hillary: The Dems complained when the President went through the Security Council hoops before forming the coalition to go into Iraq. He followed all the Dems' prescribed steps, and then when that didn't work, he did what needed to be done. Now the Dems are complaining that the President should have bypassed the other nations and the US should have handled the negotiations. It is reassuring that the Dems have such a clear and cohesive plan on dealing with world problems. I am thankful that our President will do whatever needs to be done. In this instance, I think he was brilliant in letting the Europeans realize that talks with Iran are fruitless, while at the same time forcing the Dems to once again, "flip-flop."

Peter

A great deal of Iran's oil industry pivots on Kharg Island,where would they stand without it?

pdq332

I think he was brilliant in letting the Europeans realize that talks with Iran are fruitless, while at the same time forcing the Dems to once again, "flip-flop."


If the price of European dawdling was to let Iran go nuclear, then the price was too high. In any case, the Europeans will not have "realized" the "fruitlessness". Don't forget that their pimary motivations in opposing the US in Iraq had nothing to do with honesty or good faith. They had to do with Franco-German pretensions to power through the EU (vis a vis the prestige of giving protection to a client state), with outright bribery of highly placed public officials IN THE Oil for Palaces scandal, and with an intellectual malaise that renders European elites unable to make critical distinctions between their own culture and an agressive retrograde Muslim subculture that seeks to anihilate them. All of which still apply: No, they will never learn.

pdq332

By the way, I'll vote for the first pol who correctly assesses that keeping Iran from going nuclear, at all costs, is more important at this point than European sensibilities. I cling to hope that the reason that Bush has not acted more forcefully is that the Israelis know a lot more about the layout of the Iranian nuke facilities than anyone lets on, and that we can take it out at a moments notice. (And it would be truly brilliant if Bush cut the CIA out of the picture completely on the way.)

kim

He'll let the CIA light the flares. Gamers in DC can direct the hits.
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kim

Jim, I believe Bill would be a Republican but for Hillary. She is the liberal ideologue, with intellectual depth. He is a cynical and extremely adept politician, naturally so. They are the sort from whom to expect tyranny.
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kim

Hey pretty damn how quick you are to striking the nail on the head. Outsourcing the velvet glove while clenching the mail makes sense to me. It would to Bill, too, as long as Berger and Clarke and Beers weren't around to trace oh my gods into his tentoriums.
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kim

Los Tres Amigos. Boom! There it was.
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kim

The Europeans are turning, grindingly slowly, to the horrific realization that they may be doomed to repeat what they thought, in their post WWII sensibility, they had left forever behind. They are facing class, religious, ethnic, and cultural wars that may make those of the past pale to old, forgotten far-off things, and matters long ago.
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ajacksonian

First, the US doesn't need a reason to go into Iran beyond what it already has. And if you don't like that concept, perhaps your view of reality needs some adjustment.

Secondly, even for the underground hardened sites a few of the old Grand Slams (if we only had them with GPS on-board or even a good inertial guidance system back in the day...), or the aforementioned Bunker Busters would do the trick. Actually, with GPS you could do a couple of soft penetraters to get rid of the top soil or make a nice big hole to the bedrock and then just deliver one Bunker Buster followed by a number of smaller devices down the same hole. The wonder of precision guided munitions is that they make great devices for putting shockwaves where you need them. Even most hardened underground structures are not going to take that sort of thing well... and if you actually put softer insulating material in to cushion against the shocks... well penetraters are *not* your friend, either. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It would be very hard for the Mullahs in Iran to do much of anything as a few precision strikes on their Revolutionary Guard barracks would tend to immobilize their military and police. Bringing Chechens and Aziris (sp?) in to help quell uprisings has not made them any more popular with their population. Without the Guard to control the foreign thugs and keep the army in line... the Mullahs face an unchecked population that has already voiced its displeasure with their rule a number of times.

kim

Those Mullahs may have the same vain hope for a 'secret weapon' that both Hitler and Saddam touted in their end days. I'm still sticking with the Shia Caliphate idea to be motivating them, but they may have the same sense that those other two failing tyrants had.
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larwyn

Hillary Bashes Bush While Banking Iranian Donations! (PRO MULLAHS)

GatewayPundit has this and a post on John Kerry and Iran:

"She Even Held a Fundraiser with Iranians Accused of being Pro-Regime Supporters! **

Robert Mayer at Publius Pundit found this amazing news today...

At one fundraiser Hillary discussed immigration and acknowledged the difficulties Iranian nationals have in obtaining visas to visit family members residing in America. "Our visa policy is not only unfair but it’s not good for America. We’re losing out by keeping out keen minds and ideas, which is having a negative impact on our competitive advantage." (Payvand)

We're also keeping out the Mullah suicide recruits!

Here is a photo of Hillary at a fundraiser on Friday, June 3rd, 2005, at the home of Gita and Behzad Kashani in Los Altos Hills, California. (Payvand)

Senator Clinton accepts money from supporters of Iranian Mullahs


Senator Clinton has accused President Bush of downplaying the threat from Iran while she has been accepting money from supporters of the Iranian regime.

Wealthy businessmen Hassan Nemazee and Faraj Aalaei are associated with the American Iranian Council, a pro-regime anti-sanctions group. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Namazee has contributed $4,000 to Clinton's reelection while Aalaei has given $1,000.

The press describes their lobby this way "the American-Iranian Council [AIC], a pro-regime lobbying group trying to get Congress and the Bush administration to lift the trade embargo on Iran." (Insight, 3/25/04)

Hillary Clinton is also raising money from Gati Kashani, another figure linked with the Mullahs.

ME:
Just more of "the ends justify the means" mentality of the Clintons.

coolpapa

tsk9-

"Snakiness aside, don't you think this is a big mistake 'politically' for Hillary?"

In the famous words of another Clinton, "It's the economy, stupid!" Did anyone else notice what happened to the price of oil and the Dow right after Hillary's apparent "flip-flop"?

kim

I don't think anyone wants to make a big deal of Hillary's inconsistencies. It's looked upon as 'broadening her appeal', a wise political move. The trouble is she is unappealing.
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clarice

larwyn, Kerry took money from some or all of those guys, too. That's how much they think of the vigorous defense the Dems would put up.
*********

Rick--The Revolutionary Guards Air Force we fly, we crash) ha a new head. He's a cuckoo named--I'm not making this up--Brigadier General Salami:
Tehran, Iran, Jan. 21 – A senior commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards who once vowed that “no part of the Islamic world is going to be safe and secure for America” was named as the new head of the Guards’ Air Force.

Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued a decree on Saturday, appointing Brigadier General Hossein Salami as the new commander of the Air Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC). Another senior Guards commander, Brigadier General Mohammad-Reza Zahedi, was put in charge of the IRGC Ground Forces.

Salami is known as the father of the IRGC’s “asymmetric warfare” doctrine, which he helped to develop in the months preceding the war in Iraq. At the time, Salami was Director of Operations in the IRGC command headquarters.

The military doctrine is based on two components as strategic tools in any military confrontation: the massive use of suicide operations to target U.S. and Western interests around the world, and the use of weapons of mass destruction.

On July 4, 2004, General Salami called for the destruction of the United States during a ceremony to recruit suicide bombers that were willing to attack Western and Israeli targets.

“Now, America knows that Muslims with their desires for martyrdom have discovered a new technology and are capable of technological production. This has made [the U.S.] fear them”, Salami was quoted as saying by the state-run news agency ISNA.
Hit me with your next crash

Gary Maxwell

I remember a Lonney tunes cartoon from my childhood "Salami, salami, BALONEY!

kim

Anybody care to speculate on the lifespan of airborne salami? Food fight, Ho!

kim

And I still say, without convincing evidence, that the bulk of the civilian casualties in Jalaba were from Iranian gas. Wouldn't it be just lovely to commemorate those villagers by making them the pretext for removing two tyrannies? It was those two tyrannies, fighting over water, that slaughtered them.
=====================================

kim

Tigress, Tigress, quaffing deep,
In the mountains of the Kurds.
Loose your power, drain relief.
Flood the violaceous earth.
====================================

maryrose

I haven't trusted the Iran government since the hostage crisis. This is a troublesome regime that needs to be put out of power sooner rather than later. Unlike Clinton the current president will not be deterred by dems and their cries of no more war. He will get the job done with or without them, while a Kerry wouls still be fiddling while we burn.

clarice

Seriously..Do you want as the head of your Air Force a guy who's main goal is martydom?

Imagine what the professional Irani Air Force thinks of this kook..And which one of the two air forces will be calling the shots? And how will they coordinate a defense?

clarice

WHOSE, not who's..Damn it all.

Peter

Clarice,Will it matter? If an attack goes down,the Iranian airforce won't get off the ground.

clarice

Where have we seen that before in the ME? LOL
I said that to underscore what I said earlier--a military is only as good as the society from which it springs..And here we have the real military and because the mullahs don't trust them a parallel cuckoo one..perfait..

clarice

Why, when I typed "parfait" does it show up as "perfait"? It can't be my fault..

kim

Yower meaning is too parfect foah meah wuuds.
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kim

The second line should read:

Slake the gorges of the Kurds.

And sometimes I like Tygris, Tygris.
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Gary Maxwell

I once worked with a guy who in a former life was a defense contractor ( civilian type) who worked closely with Iranian pilots ( in the days of the Shah ). He used to giggle a lot about the Iranian so called pilots. He told me that he knew of more than one occasion where an Iranian had managed to eject himself from the cockpit while the plane was still in the hangar. Two holes in the roof, one on the way up and another on the way down!

kim

Well, that's how you make pilots smart.
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clarice

What a coincidence1 Right after Hillary starts talking military option re Iran, so does the NYT.
Follow the leader

kim

The Ghostly Gray Lady: All the News that Flits to print.

Kos Dancers arise and take your places. We must get it right this time. Altogether now.
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clarice

US News reports breathlessly that Kerry's family WANTS him to run agian and--*surprise* he is and further that he and Hillary are in a battle royale over the nomination.

Pass the popcorn..

kim

She didn't work for him in '04, and it broke Bill's heart to do so.
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maryrose

Kerry has got to be kidding. His 15 minutes are up. Ditto for Gore. The people don't want them again. And I doubt that the DNC is willing to pay another second mortgage on Kerry's Beacon Hill house in order for him to reject federal money. Wake up and smell the coffee.

MaryC

Hillary couldn't even kick Bill's ass when he was out of line. I can't believe anybody would be dumb enough to think that she'll actually have the berries to stand up to Iran and defend this country.

kim

Hillary playing the WMD card. Hey, Sweetie, don't you know the UN, headlined by a Nobel PEACE prize winner, has the situation well in hand.
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kim

Cheney's been letting the Princes know that Shia mullahcracy hasn't any better chance than Sunni Wahhabi to prevail. I ownder if he also pointed out in passing that Shia Arab reside over the Princes' possessions.
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Wilson/Plame