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February 18, 2006

Comments

Lew Clark

They didn't say a "senior American intelligence official". Could be a Syrian or Iranian former intelligence official. Although those guys usually leave the business and this life simultaneously. More likely French or Belgian.

The beauty of anonymous sources is they can be anybody and can say anything. You can write the story before you talk to anybody, then shop around for an anonymous source to support it.

Sue

That's the whole thing that bothered me all along. Why would they send Joe Wilson? When the VP asks a question you send a clown to find the answer? Heads should have rolled for that one stick in the eye.

maryrose

Who authorized his trip to Niger, after his wife recommended him and why would she let him write a NYT op-ed if she was worried about her own cover?

Jim E.

While I appreciate the reliable anti-Wilson tirades around these parts, did any of you actually read the linked article? The larger issue of the obviously forged documents is a tad more interesting and significant.

Sue

Hey, Mr. E., you're right. Wilson knew about forged documents when he shouldn't have. Does that mean Ms. Plame was involved in pillow talk?

Rick Ballard

I'm rather amused by the fact that the Times didn't note the unacknowledged uranium stocks declared by Libya when ole Muammar tossed in the towel. The IAEA didn't know a damn thing about it either. Nor did the Times mention the fact that the Akouta mine, owned by COGEMA in Niger was the probable source of the Libyan undeclared uranium. Nor did the Times mention that the Akouta mine is a hell of aa lot closer to the Libyan border than it is to Niamey. Nor did it mention that the road leaving the Akouta mine toward the Algerian frontier a few hours away is known as the 'Uranium Highway'. Nor did the Times mention that uranium production in Niger amounted to 4,000 tons per annum which means that 600 tons spread over two or three years really isn't going to be that big a deal. Nor did the times mention that the trucks used for transport in that area are much more likely to be 40 ton Mercedes behomoths rather than 10 ton toys. Nor did the Times mention that Iraq and Libya had joint agreements covering weapons development including missile delivery systems. Nor did the Times mention that Iraqi nuclear scientists were quite familiar with the Libyan nuclear program and may have directly participated in some of the enrichment efforts attempted by Libya.

Aside from that, the Times article was a rehash with absolutely nothing new to it. SOP for the MSM and certainly enough to gull the gullible.

"All the news that fits our views - now and until the bitter end."

PS - For the geographically challenged - Libya is a country in Africa - the continent that British intelligence mentioned when sharing intelligence concerning Iraq's attempt to purchase uranium.

Sue

Baute and his staff determined that many of the names, dates, titles and other data were wrong.

Those words sound hauntingly familiar. Where have we heard them before?

PeterUK

There has never been an explanation why Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf visited Niger,he may have been holding talks on the construction of "Ba'ath World" a totalitarian theme park or simply admiring the goats.
We should be told.

Specter

PeterUK,

That is simple. Seditious Gore decided they shouldn't tell the media about it until they had time to get their story straightened out. It was while trying to ask reasonable questions about this story that David Gregory lost his hair (radiation poisoning) and had to take on that ridiculous wig...

clarice

About the source--I was in California last week, but I'm not saying more than that..

Kathie

Suppose Saddam was buying uranium from Africa to send to Libya for a program he was funding in Libya? After the Israeli's bombed Iraq, it seems perfectly logical that the next program would not be developed in Iraq. It is just to perfect that Libya is discovered to have had a program as we get involved in Iraq.

topsecretk9

Clarice

YOU CAN"T DO THAT, is this one you floated from long ago?

Bob in Pacifica

The CIA knew the Niger story was bullshit. What's so surprising about that? And it turned out that it was bullshit. The "wild goose chase" turned out to be one if the chase was to find a reason to invade Iraq.

So what is it, my lovelies? Did the Bush inner circle get suckered in by the forgery or did Hadley produce the forgery for them? Myself, I think it was done in-house.

topsecretk9

The CIA knew the Niger story was bullshit

Which makes their sending Joe even stooopper.

Rick Ballard

I suppose that Valerie and Joe could have cooked up the forgeries. Joe had the requisite knowledge of the COGEMA and Niger officials and knew where Niamey was.

It seems a bit of a stretch though.

SteveMG

Hmm, it's a interesting little exercise to compare the LA Time's (and others) coverage over the past months of this allegation against Saddam Hussein with the allegations disseminated by the press against Cheney and his recent shooting mishap.

An example, albeit small and strained, of how the US press sees things.

In the latter case - the Cheney shooting - we have a press (see the AP's story on the matter for example) that is quite sceptical if not hostile to the account provided by Cheney et al. over the accident. Any discrepancy, no manner how slight, is highlighted and critics of the Administration are given a wide swathe to make some pretty outrageous accusations (see O'Donnell, Begala, Reagan Jr). The other details are probably familiar with everyone reading this so one needs not recount the matter further.

In the former matter, most specifically the LA Times piece, the press seems determined to exonerate Iraq from the charges that they sought to acquire (NOT acquired mind you) uranium from Africa.

Whether the charges were accurate or not (they appear to be incorrect and were based, in part, on fraudulent documents; although the UK still stands by them) is mostly irrelevant here. Note: My own guess is that some Nigerien officials were involved in promoting the story in hopes of driving up the price of the material and thereby forcing the US to buy the uranium to prevent it from being acuired by rogue regimes. Just a guess.

The point is that in the Iraqi/uranium incident, the press appears to be defending Saddam Hussein from the charges dismissing inculpatory information and emphasizing the exculpatory material.

Now they're not really doing that, of course. No newspaper or news organization is openly defending Saddam (or OBL or the terrorists). They (Reuters for example) may be so hostile to the Administration that they appear to be defending those entities. But they're not really.

But these two incidents do show how the press views things. What they consider news, and how they go about their business. And their business is, well, business. Selling papers, getting ratings.

And the best way, as they see it, in doing that is by revealing American government mis- mal- or nonfeasance. And it's not by revealing Iraqi or Iranian or North Korean wrongdoings.

But using this approach, it seems to me, is not really providing the public with a good product. The story they tell is not an accurate one. And without accuracy, the press is worthless.

SMG

clarice

I haven't departed from my original view on the forgeries. They were created for French intel and were supposed to be used to stop the invasion. By that I mean they were supposed to surface as we made our case to the UNSC. They would then be instantly
unmasked as forgeries , and we would look like we were behind faking evidence.

What France didn't realize is that we were determined to go ahead without SC sanction if need be, and we did.

They surfaced late but still had value. Though Plame's office mysteriously had held them for 6 months in a safe there before they did.

Wilson's consistent story that he'd seen them before we officially had them has never been adequately explained.
His last iteration to the SSCI was that maybe Mrs. Greenspan had shown him a copy before one of his appearance on her network and he'd confused that with thinking he'd seen them at the time of his trip.

He the--what was it a year after the Kristoff and Pincus pieces appeared?--claimed he'd never told them he'd seen the forgeries.

Makes no sense. He either saw them before they were in our hands and could have done so only if someone had improperly given him classified info and is covering up. Or he made up the whole thing and is backtracking. I vote for the first explanation.

clarice

Well, of course, there is a third explanation..he had some hand in creating them or delivering them to us, but I think that farfetched.

Rick Ballard

I was just teasing Bob. Don't forget that copies of the docs were in Panorama's hands - the lefty press has hounded Berlusconi and Blair with this crap too. The Dishonorable Ambassador Munchausen may very well have seen them in Ms. Greenspan's mitts. It's not as if the crockpot hadn't been bubbling for some time.

clarice

I vote for someone in Plame's office hanging on to them for a reason --like chickening out on the game, but that Plame told him about it. In any event, IIRC the things he said were wrong with the forgery were wrong--he must of been thinking of another forgery all together.

TM

He the--what was it a year after the Kristoff and Pincus pieces appeared?--claimed he'd never told them he'd seen the forgeries.

I read somewhere that in the forward to the new paperback version of Wilson's book, "The Politics of Keeping a Straight Face While Lying Through Your Teeth" (I may have misremembered the title), Wilson has a disclaimer from Nick Kristof wherein Nick explains that Wilson never claimed he debunked the forgeries.

I am amused by the "all change". Time was that Wilson's adherents would pound the table that he *might* have debunked the forgeries; now that is not a claim Wilson, or they, want to make.

Sue

So is Kristoff saying he (Kristoff) made it up? Isn't that like saying he lied to us? Why would Kristoff take the rap for Wilson? Things are very strange in this Plamegate saga...

clarice

Isn't that something? I kept track of the NYT Wa Po waltz, here:http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4951&search=clarice

clarice

TM, you are crazy not to write a book on this--go get an agent now..

clarice

P.S. USe that title you just posted..

topsecretk9

---“After being chastised by Pat Roberts and his Senate colleagues in the summer of 2004, Wilson turned to the most authoritative of his backers, the New York Times, and its always reliable, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, Nicholas Kristof. Wilson secured an e-mail from Kristof to help firm up his account.

Kristof claims to have been “driving through red states” when he received Wilson’s e-mail in Salt Lake City. This presumably accounts for the faulty punctuation that Wilson insists on capturing in Kristof’s response:

don’t worry, i remember you saying that you had not seen the documents. my recollection is that we had some information about the documents at that time – e.g. the names of the people in them – but i do clearly remember you saying that you had not been shown them.

If this particular detail was so critical that Kristof could remember it “clearly” more than a year later, why did he not qualify Wilson’s comments in his original op-ed piece? In fact, he did just the opposite. In writing that the Niger yellowcake information was “unequivocally wrong” and that “the documents had been forged,” Kristof leaves the distinct impression that Wilson must have seen them. His use of the word “recollection” here should be something of a red flag. In providing an alibi for Wilson, he allows a legal escape clause for himself.”---

Cashill

Apparently, Kristof only corrected this in an email, not his column. This is most likely because Kristof pulled out his "too much time passing" correction rule card. (sarcasm alert)

Toby Petzold

Wilson forgot that he wasn't supposed to have known about the forgeries in advance.

topsecretk9

Wonder why Wilson didn't ask Pincus for an email too?

This little anecdote is so indicative of Wilson's weird habit of setting up odd little props for himself. I can't remember what commenter (JM, Ex?), who observed how Wilson is always dragging around news clippings to quote from rather than answer a dang question himself (with his glasses positioned smartly down nose). Quoting a third party somehow makes his premise true or something. He did this with Novak too-- that Novak friend encounter, the friend who just happened to bump into Novak who just happened to be working on a story about Wilson, just happened to wonder straight over to Wilson so then Wilson was able to call Novak and QUOTE A NEWSTORY he just happened to have lying around, uh huh). I have also thought it to be amusing that in preparation for his media onslaught he positioned all of his medals and Herbert Walker Bush communiques in his living room for reporters to admire and you know JUST prove he didn't have an axe to grind. Anyway, he just has this peculiar inferiority complex masked by this stunning narcissism.

don’t worry, i remember you saying that you had not seen the documents.

What's there to worry about Joe? If you didn't see them you have nothing to worry about right?...incidently, how would Kristof know whether you saw the documents or not (saying and seeing are 2 different things friend)

larwyn

Rick Ballard
I suppose that Valerie and Joe could have cooked up the forgeries. Joe had the requisite knowledge of the COGEMA and Niger officials and knew where Niamey was.

It seems a bit of a stretch though.

Wasn't there a burglary at the Nigerian embassy in Italy (Rome?)
of stationary, forms and seals???

And wasn't Val Bond stationed in Italy at the time???

Read that either a AJ's, Macs or
here OR was it one of those Friday
Night Lives???


Getmo

They sent Joe Wilson because they were going to use him and the documents to set up the Americans. This was planned from day one. They used a foreign intelligence operation on the US and its an old game. The question is why did'nt Wilson defect or get used by the Russians. Iraq was old ground for Russia and Plame had a history with Aimes and probably Howard, if not their trainer who went on PC, just like Wilson. History has these going bad and being used by the CIA operations officer or trainer. Evrything else seemed to work out for Plame.

kim

If Fitz won't investigate Joe, why can't someone else?
================================================

maryrose

I think someone can investigate Wilson after we get Fitz off the stage. If the judge throws out some or all of the charges then the press will come out of their hidey-holes and start telling us the truth about what really happened. Right now all the reporters are in lockdown mode.

kim

I fear the investigation of Joe can't proceed until Fitzs show has been cancelled. What a mess.

I'm mildly amused that both sides keep holding out hope that the provenance of the yellow cake forgeries will resolve all the questions. It may help, but nothing but Tom's book (co-authored with Clarice?) will ever get this settled. Speaking of Yellow Cake forgeries, if its source had been in the administration what is the chance Plame's group would sit on it in the fashion they did? I'm still going for French disinformation most likely, CIA thug disinformation next most likely, and plain simple greed bringing up the train. And not much greed at that. The pigs in this case are the Democrats who got involved in this attempted putsch.
==================================================

Beto Ochoa

topsecretK9 wrote,

This little anecdote is so indicative of Wilson's weird habit of setting up odd little props for himself.

Oh what a tangled web we weave....N'est-ce pas?
Getmo wrote,
They sent Joe Wilson because they were going to use him and the documents to set up the Americans. This was planned from day one....Iraq was old ground for Russia and Plame had a history with Aimes and probably Howard, if not their trainer who went on PC, just like Wilson.

Old spook shit too if you ask me. I'm relieved to see someone else has come to the same conclusion. People who think it was over between the CIA and KGB when the wall came down have their eyes closed.
PS
They've got Op's in the CIA and have for years but the Clinton crowd cleared ours out of theirs. Now we fly blind most of the time.

Cecil Turner

I got to this part and couldn't focus through the laughter-induced tears:

A review by the Los Angeles Times of those seemingly independent intelligence reports leads to the conclusion that they were based on information contained in forged documents that an Italian ex-spy was trying to sell to Western intelligence agencies in 2001 and 2002.
A review, huh? That's sooo much better than just asserting it (and having it easily disproven by the reports pre-dating the forgeries). From that point, anything Messrs. Drogin and Hamburger have to say on the subject isn't worth reading.

kim

C'mon Fitz, get after this. You've wasted a lot of time chasing horses who've escaped the barn and now you want to shoot one that's stumbled and is on the ground, meanwhile the villains have ridden their high horses out to LA. Wassup wif dat?
===========================================

danking70

Is there not one intrepid reporter out there?

At least Able Danger has Jack Kelly.

Other Tom

To say that "the CIA knew" something--or anything--is absurd. At any time, on any issue, you will find heated internal disputes within the CIA, and it is impossible to determine what the institution does or does not "know." The closest thing to the "knowledge" of the "intelligence community" is the NIE, which is a consensus document. But, as we have so often seen, it is invariably badly flawed, and the scoundrels will always surface after the fact to point out their dissenting views. The CIA needs a top-to-bottom purging, and a few healthy show trials for some of the "patriots" who leak like sieves in pursuit of their own agendas.

kim

Actually, I think thug CIA recognized the French disinformation and saw that it could be used for their own purposes. A crosscut saw, so to speak. Originally designed by the French to thwart and embarrass the Americans pre-war, it was used by Val, Joe and the Democrats to embarrass and potentially dethrone Gearge Bush, post-war. Hot stuff, that little ol' Italian was handling.
============================================

kim

Like God, if these papers hadn't existed, it would have been necessary to invent them.
============================================

kim

And Fitz is becoming the punchline to a whole litter of and on the new shag.
===========================================

kim

Why is our CIA ineffective? Because Libby's a liar.
==============================================

kim

Hey, he's spending my money to not figure out what I can figure out right here in my pajamas. I mean, what's the world coming to?
======================================

kim

French toast today. It was quick and easy. Can anybody tell me what real maple syrup tastes like, or does it depend on the temperature, the tree, the microclimate, or what?

It was a very good ring.
==================================================

clarice

I think a book by TM detailing what happened and the press coverage of it, would be the death of the NYT and LAT and the mortal wounding of the WaPo. The coverage of this incident has been unbelievable.

The indictment of Libby and what follows is for a second book. And that one should do for Special Prosecutions and prosecutorial overreach what J'Accuse did to the French system of Justice.
I am serious.

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

The cool part is that Tom has already written the book. Editing the archives, preparing the timeline and weaving the theme are all that is required (not that it would not be a lot of work). He's already put in his 1K word average days production for the necessary length of time.

Larry

Aren't the forgeries very simply scarlet sardines? From the Butler report:
"Conclusion 503. From our examination of the intelligence and other material on Iraqi attempts to
buy uranium from Africa, we have concluded that:.............................................
d. The forged documents were not available to the British Government at the time its assessment
was made, and so the fact of the forgery does not undermine it."

The Downing Street Memo, having been copied and subject to error or mischief, is unverifiable unless the original goes public.

Rick, you blew my socks off with your 5:46 p. m. Thanks.

Three possible African countries from whom Iraq may have TRIED to purchase yellowcake. Contrary to so-called CW, it seems likely they tried all three.

What am I missing?

willem

The Aimes connection raises some interesting questions. It triggered a memory; I remember reading something about Plame's ambition to be a CIA station chief in Italy ruined by the Aimes fallout. Pure coincidence the forged docs came out of Italy? Maybe so. Then there's this wacky little ditty from the EPIC website bio of Joseph Wilson: "...He has been decorated as a Commander in the Order of the Equatorial Star by the Government of Gabon..." (odd that he would tout this). Does anyone else have any insight on the the Gabon-Annan-UN-Niger-France loop that encircles Wilson? I keep wondering who else Wilson was working for? Wasn't he somewhat formally unemployed before his infamous road trip? I just can't shake the feeling that Wilson has at some point in time been in the employ of a foreign government or on behalf of foreign government interests related to the issue that has fallen into controversy. The gestalt of this seems to point to this scandal being the plan from day one. Chaney's request for more data seemed logical enough, but does that logic extend to Plame's plug-in of hubby Wilson? Plame's promotion of her husband may be far more calculated than it first appeared. How calculated? When someone like Fitzgerald gets played like a violin, it requires more than the usual tricks. I have been looking at this issue through the lens of domestic politics, but I am begining to wonder if that is not the esssence of the deception in play.

kim

Well, he's been in the pay of middleastern interests, and he certainly didn't want Saddam deposed.
==============================================

maryrose

Very good point willem. There has always been more to this than meets the eye. Surprisingly there is not a single reporter willing to delve into this and find answers and the truth.

Rick Ballard

Willem,

A close look at the AQ Khan "Have we got an Islamic bomb for you!" program would clarify many of the issues involved in this. The CIA says that he was "safely under surveillance" during the '90's. If he was so safely surveilled, why wasn't Libya's nuclear program (and ties with Iraq wrt that program) used in "selling the American people" on the necessity for taking out Iraq - and Libya while we were at it? Are the Paki ties to the Libyan program still too "sensitive" to be brought to light?

Why is elBaradei accepted as a figure of respect and knowledge when he and his idiotic organization didn't notice COGEMA peddling 1200 tons of uranium from Niger to Libya in the late '80's and early '90's?

Wilson is a willing pawn who has now been sacrificed. The forgeries may well have been a French ploy but their hope may have been more to distract attention from COGEMA's dealings with Libya than to scupper a UN resolution which they were going to veto at any rate. Who else has been sold uranium by COGEMA while the IAEA turns a blind eye and a deaf ear? Who at the top of the French government has profited by the sales?

If we had an investigative press rather than a party propaganda organ, those questions might be subjects of interest. But we don't, so we get to wonder when the "press" is going to notice that "the smartest man in the room" is running around buck assed naked. I'm betting on never.

PeterUK

"Daahlink" she said,easing the sheer silk stocking slowly down her soft but firm golden tanned leg,"Daahlink,do you want to make your little Wifeypoo very, very happy".

The sun shone through the bedroom window as she sat at the dressing table,catching her blonde hair suddenly flashing it gold.

"Daaahlink",she said once more slipping the strap of her negligee off one shoulder and running her hands through her hair,"You know how I hate working in that horrible dark office with only those Yale graduates for company?" she pouted slightly,"You promised to look after little Wifeypoo for ever and ever,and here I am stuck in this crushingly boring Job,and you between jobs,whem we met you were a dashing diplomat,and now....." she faltered,"I have and idea",she said,raising one leg up to examine her toenails,"It would mean lots of money,and perhaps the new administration would post you to Paris"

"What my Dear" he answered,dabbing at the nick on his cheek,he laid down the razor,"What is it you want?"

"Daahlink" she said crushing herself against him and biting his ear,"Daahlink", she purred ,"I want you to go to Niger!"

clarice

Exactly.Rick. That's my point.
Larry, the forgeries are red herrings as far as the NIE is concerned, but it is intriguing that the claims attributed to him which "sexed up" the story were after the fact denied by him--only after close examination by the SSCI.
Willem, an excellent researcher by the name of Fedora has done the best job on the issue, Go to Free Republic and search for those pieces. They are the most accurate and detailed I've seen anywhere.

Now, gang, join me in nagging Tom to do the book. He can do it better and faster than anyone else. It's virtually written already.

topsecretk9

Libby Notes

"has a little bit of hieroglyphics in there, and so what we have to do is translate them so we can tell the intelligence agencies what their content is so we can figure out how sensitive it is,"

Libby translating: See that little bit of hieroglyphics there, that says "lunch with Judy Miller, said she's hearing from Andrea and State that Wilson's wife at CIA set up the trip, Note to self - Call Russert"

topsecretk9

Now, gang, join me in nagging Tom to do the book. He can do it better and faster than anyone else. It's virtually written already.

Pester and tempt these guys with the little gold mine known as....TM™

hrtshpdbox

The gestalt of this seems to point to this scandal being the plan from day one. >

Great post, but couldn't the original "point" have been to elect John Kerry?

richard mcenroe

Rick Ballard — "If he was so safely surveilled, why wasn't Libya's nuclear program (and ties with Iraq wrt that program) used in "selling the American people" on the necessity for taking out Iraq - and Libya while we were at it?"

It's a classic case of beltway semantics. In the case "safely" means safely for the CIA, as in, "we'll be careful not to notice anything we might have to act on." Kind of like trying to get your insurance company to admit you actually filed a valid claim.

topsecretk9

Public Service Announcement:

Taking donations to help cover the crate of tissues and miniature violins I just fed-ex'd to the NYT's (they're taking the news Libby plans to actually USE the team of lawyers he's retained pretty hard, apparently they weren't aware republican defendants had any RIGHT to these types of legal defenses, and so it really is grey at the old GreyLady)

Any donation will be fine, but given the circumstances a sizable amount was needed to help them out.

End of public service announcement.

clarice

HEH.
Willem here is one of the Fedora articles on Cogema and Wilson--I found it my tryping this search into google:Free Republic Fedora Joseph Wilson. It's faster than trying their search engine--Once here, send mail to Fedora asking for links to his other works on WIlson if you wish.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1256475/posts?page=1,50

Cecil Turner

What am I missing?

Not sure you're missing anything, but there is a legitimate argument against that Butler conclusion, since the forgeries were available (at least in report form) as early as October 2001. Per the SSCI, a "verbatim text" of the agreement was reported on February 5, 2002, in plenty of time to be included in the 9 September 2002 "Dossier" relied upon by President Bush. So while the actual forgeries weren't available, their information was making the rounds.

However, the legitimate argument that the UK dossier may have been tainted by the forgeries leads many to pretend the forgeries were the genesis of the reports. And that's clearly not on. Leaving aside the discoveries after the Gulf War (that Iraq was years closer to bomb production than earlier estimated), the Iraqi trade delegation visit referenced by PeterUK above roused everyone's suspicions. In fact, the main reason the forgeries were so convincing to many analysts is because they confirmed earlier reports, in particular those from 1999 (SSCI):

Several analysts interviewed by Committee staff also pointed out that information in the second intelligence report matched reporting from 1999 which showed that an Algerian businessman, Baraka, was arranging a trip for the Iraqi Ambassador to the Vatican, Wissam al-Zahawi, to visit Niger and other African countries in early February 1999.
Wilson's report was taken as confirmation by many because he reported that even the Nigeriens thought the Iraqis were seeking uranium:
Mayaki said, however, that in June 1999, [redacted] businessman, approached him and insisted that Mayaki meet with an Iraqi delegation to discuss “expanding commercial relations” between Niger and Iraq. The intelligence report [from Wilson's debrief] said that Mayaki interpreted “expanding commercial relations” to mean that the delegation wanted to discuss uranium yellowcake sales.
Finally, reports of Iraqi efforts to seek uranium predate the 2001 forgeries (as even a casual reading of the Butler Report would've demonstrated to Drogin and Hamburger):
Unconfirmed intelligence indicates Iraqi interest in acquiring uranium . . . [JIC, 1 December 2000]

PeterUK

Plus the fact that Iraq already had Yellow cake from Niger,albeit under UN seal,though what the going rate for a UN seal was at the time I do not know.

larwyn

Trying to catch up:

Willem,Kim,Maryrose
MacsMind has done many posts on the "yellow cake" possible scams and moneymakers for both the CIA and the Wilsons. CIA long known to run ops that provide funds for other black/covert ops, not to mention retirements.
Ya gotta dig out the old LeCarre's,Follet's & Littel's.

Beto Ochoa
They've got Op's in the CIA and have for years but the Clinton crowd cleared ours out of theirs. Now we fly blind most of the time.

Everytime a CLINTONISTA brags about their economy, I wish I could
just slap them. All that "peace
dividend" saved costing 50x now.
Sure be nice to be inside on what the hell the "Ruskies" are pulling in Iran, N.Korea and elsewhere.

Peter UK
LOL - where were you on Friday night?

Clarice
1)Thanks for continuing the CSPAN
"neutrality" at AT.

2)Can we send him an invite to
Friday Nights Live?
Cheering tidbits lighten otherwise grim week

February 19, 2006BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

In an otherwise grim week -- at least on unimportant peripheral matters like Iranian nukes -- three things cheered me up
........snip
So anyway David Gregory's going bananas and yelling "I will yell!" and "Don't be a jerk!" at the White House press secretary, and there's more smoke coming out of his ears than from Ronald McDonald in Lahore, and I'm thinking, you know, maybe Karl's latest range of Rovebots that he planted in American media corporations are just a wee bit too parodically self-absorbed to be plausible And then this lady pipes up and asks, "Would this be much more serious if the man had died?"

,,,,,,another excerpt:

On CNN, out of "sensitivity" to Islam, they show the cartoons but with the Prophet's face pixilated so that he looks as if Cheney's ventilated him with birdshot and it turned puffy and gangrenous. C'mon, guys, these are interesting times. Anyone can unload the umpteenth round of blanks into the bulletproof Chimpy Hallibushitler, but why not take a shot at something that matters?

You gotta read the whole thing!


maryrose

Larwyn: I read it this morning and laughed out loud! Mark Steyn has done his usual masterful job of calling it as it is and his comment about the narcicist Gregory was a hoot. Touche! MSM press.

clarice

I am sooo in love with Mark Steyn--I can't tell you how many days I thought no one got it, and then I read him.

MJW

Let me emphasize: PREVIEW is our friend.

willem

" ... the main reason the forgeries were so convincing to many analysts is because they confirmed earlier reports, in particular those from 1999 (SSCI) ... "

That's interesting. How publicly available were the yellowcake-related details of that report prior to the introduction of the forgeries? If one used the specific content of that report to configure an optimally discrediting device, that would be an interesting way to do it; get it deeply enough into the system to taint the perceived integrity the historical information already there.

larwyn

Clarice,
I must ask Dr.Sanity what it means that the old Sean Connery fantasy has been replaced by Mark
Styne, Jack Kelly, Thomas Lifson,
Jack Risko, Jonathan David Carson,
Victor Davis Hanson........

I am a very wicked woman!

topsecretk9

Willem
Good point. Sorta a takes one to know one to maybe discredit one.


Kim - for you

Overheard conversation of my youngish son and dad, enjoying a 7-up after a little game of catch...quickly turning into a burping contest, which sparked this deep thought...

"Dad, if you ever wonder about how big Peter Griffith is, he's about the same as Michael Morre"

Because we are all wondering that, right?

Sue

Wasn't Joe sent to Niger in 1999 on another boondoggle trip to check out something about yellowcake? I can't remember exactly.

And PeterUK...you're good...

Sue

If anyone in our CIA thought the documents were real, we are in deep doo-doo. The LA Times article says the man from the IAEA ran a search on google to determine they were forged. {insert emoticon of true horror}

Beto Ochoa

Great thread today. Peter in UK, Bravo! An excellent read.
Willem wrote

That's interesting. How publicly available were the yellowcake-related details of that report prior to the introduction of the forgeries? If one used the specific content of that report to configure an optimally discrediting device, that would be an interesting way to do it; get it deeply enough into the system to taint the perceived integrity the historical information already there.
Your remark bears more resemblance to the truth than most can imagine.

As ((Larwyn)) noted from my post"They've got Op's in the CIA and have for years but the Clinton crowd cleared ours out of theirs. Now we fly blind most of the time."The biggest problem for the elements that orchestrated the "Plame Affair" is the inclusion of Joseph Wilson.
As TopsecretK9 noted

"The CIA knew the Niger story was bullshit"
Which makes their sending Joe even stooopper. and later noting This little anecdote is so indicative of Wilson's weird habit of setting up odd little props for himself.

Joe cracks outta turn and will eventually be their Achilles Heel. The ideas floated here that he may someday be scrutinized by the system is probable in the future climate. The climate after another domestic attack. When the press gets taken to the woodshed and the leakers get hung.

topsecretk9

for the record

stooopper = stooopider...but I didn't have the guts to own up to the humiliation of that correction (if you know what I mean) - winking

Beta
A confident person would have no need to chase his own tail with props, would one?

Sue

This story is perfect for the media, if they weren't so tangled up in it themselves. They know more than they are reporting, because to report it would get them in front of Fitz. Which brings you all the way back to the original NYTs piece urging the investigation of the leak of super-dooper clandestine CIA agent. All to bring down an administration they hated and insert it with one more to their liking.

Beto Ochoa

Oui Oui mon ami.

clarice

Larwyn--You vill look at dis shiny object for a few minutes--watch it swing--and we will get this resolved in no time..

topsecretk9

They know more than they are reporting, because to report it would get them in front of Fitz.

you know Sue, I don't think anyone in the media wants to touch this story with a ten foot pole at this point. To do so--maybe a few would be venerable to Fitz--but mostly it would just reveal the media's complicity in fueling Wilson's fire.

They knew/know the guy is full of poo poo--it's classic Mary Mapes "fake, but accurate"---they love Wilson's lie.

They love the lie, but it's easier to just go the lie than to come clean with the American people --usually they fight for a our right to know (Cheney's got a gun) -- I don't think we'll ever get a, sorry folks-- we led you to believe the story was true, but it's not...it's a lie

I wish though. I don't know why a more independent outlet (like national review) would take a more in depth look.

Gary Maxwell

what the going rate for a UN seal

Peter a Brit implying that integrity is for sale at the UN. I am truly shocked. Mrs. Cherie blair will be along shortly to wash your mouth out with soap.

Gary Maxwell

oops!

Gary Maxwell

oops!

PeterUK

Gary,
If she does that i will get Ms Cherie Booth QC to take her to court for abusing my Human Rights,cruel and unusual punishment.

On the subject of seals,why is there this almost religious belief in UN inspectors seals,haven't they seen David Copperfield.
I have seen fake antiquities from the Middle East that have had to be X-rayed to debunk,the ME is the home of fakes,a piece of wire with a clamped metal seal and some dust isn't going to faze them.

Gary Maxwell

oops!

Beto Ochoa

..the going rate for a UN seal
Depends on whether it's made into a wallet, belt or hat.

larwyn

Hackett to appear on Hardball
tomorrow

"tell how American Heroes are

being used to get votes"

Just caught a promo for the show
surfing thru MSNBC

PoliPundit may have to revise his
latest estimates for the House in
2006.

willem

Anybody remember Joe Wilson speaking-out authoratitively about Niger, yellowcake and against the Bush administration at an anti-war rally on foreign soil during the lead-up to the Iraq invasion? I think in was in the UK during June 2002 or maybe 2003. Either I've lost my mind, am stuck on stupid, or the references have been scrubbed. I've been googlin for the last half hour. I remember the rally's sponsoring organization posted the event program online. I remember it included Wilson's bio noting his lovely wife Valerie Plame and their two children. Perhaps I've got it all wrong. Anybody remember anything that might help me track this down again?

clarice

It was the EPIC meeting in downtown Wash Dc. They pulled the bio info from their site recently--the one in which he listed his wife as Valerie Plame. Fedora typed a transcript of his speech and I blogged it..The sponsors were a group that opposed sanctions (likely some Baathist front) and some useful idiots. If I can find the blog I'll post it.

clarice

Here it is:www.americanthinker.com/comments.php%3Fcomments_id%3D3345&w=clarice+feldman+wilson+plame+epic&d=K3E0lm1aMHe_&icp=1&.intl=us

clarice

Ahem--here I mean:http://www.americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=3345

willem

Wow. This is from Clarice's suggested link above re Fedora's research. Didn't the Turkish government refuse to allow the US Military access through Turkey to invade Northern Iraq?

"... While working out of Rock Creek’s offices, Wilson also advised American-Turkish investment groups who shared Hagel’s negative views of Bush’s Iraq policy. Wilson had developed Turkish contacts during his diplomatic career. While stationed in Iraq, he had shared intelligence with members of the Turkish embassy there, including ambassador Ahmet Okcun, who would later become Turkey’s Foreign Ministry Coordinator for Reconstruction of Iraq.15 Also, while in Germany, Wilson had worked on Iraqi-related issues with Turkish General Cevik Bir, a critic of US policy towards Iraq.16 Wilson and Bir expressed similar views on Iraq when they spoke together at events held by the American-Turkish Council (ATC), a Turkish-American business association headed by Brent Scowcroft,17 another prominent Republican critic of the Bush administration’s Iraq policy.18 Scowcroft and Wilson shared the view that President Bush’s policy towards the Middle East and Iraq was dominated by a cabal of pro-Israeli “neo-cons" represented by Richard Perle--as Wilson expressed his views in a June 2003 lecture, Bush’s invasion of Iraq “was all done to make Sharon's life easier. . .American soldiers are dying in order to enable Sharon to impose his terms upon the Palestinians. . .American boys and girls are dying for Israel".19 Wilson’s contact with the ATC also brought him into contact with his future wife, Valerie Plame, whom he met while receiving an ATC award during a reception at the Turkish embassy in Washington.20 In addition to advising the ATC, Wilson also headed the Washington branch of a Turkish business group founded in 2000 by Turkish-American businesswoman Tumu Gumustekin, the Corporate & Public Strategy Advisory Group (CPS), which sought to capitalize on business opportunities opened up by Turkey’s 1999 acceptance as a candidate for EU membership.21 Meanwhile, as Turkey competed for EU membership, Saddam Hussein’s regime had been bribing Turkish oil companies through the Oil-for-Food Program, and in December 2001 had awarded a drilling contract to one of these companies, the Turkish state oil company Turkish Petroleum International Company (TPIC), a subsidiary of the Turkish Petroleum Corporation (TPAO).22 Also at this time the Alamoudi-affiliated company Delta Oil was involved in several oil development projects in Turkey and the surrounding region, including a joint project with TotalFinaElf and Turkish Petroleum and other companies to build a major oil pipeline, the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) Pipeline, from Turkey through Georgia to Azerbaijan.23 ..."

Well, well.

See the rest at: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1256475/posts?page=1,50

willem

If I remember correctly, Wilson's EPIC speech and bio were a full month before Novak's notorious column. Then there's the McEnierny and Vallely disclosure confirmations that predate that.

Poor Fitz. The Wilson's have had him for lunch. He's busted ass his entire life just to end up being played for a fool in the biggest and most public assignment of his career. Seriously, that's a sad thing.

topsecretk9

American boys and girls are dying for Israel".19 Wilson’s contact with the ATC also brought him into contact with his future wife, Valerie Plame, whom he met while receiving an ATC award during a reception at the Turkish embassy in Washington.

just out of curiosity...isn't it a little tiny oddish that a mid to low level covert cia agent would be at this event solo? Tinfoil could be tight and this SOP, but this doesn't seem like a good covert protecting.

topsecretk9

They pulled the bio info from their site recently

I don't get this. I mean it's not like it wasn't mentioned let alone viewed like a million times, what's the point?

Dave in W-S

Willem,

You are correct. The Turks refused to allow the US 4th Infantry Division to transit Turkey into northern Iraq. Consequently, the planned pincer attack, which would have trapped Sadaam and his Baathists between two powerful forces, had to be altered at the last moment. Had the 4th been able to command the North like the 3rd and the Marines did the South, it is quite likely that the entire course of the last several years would have been greatly altered.

And yet, those same [pause*] individuals, some of whom may have been active in sabotaging US operations, had the balls to criticize the administration afterwards for not doing it right and not having enough troops on the ground for a proper invasion.

* The pause was to think of a more non-inflammatory word than the one that leaped into my mind, which I will not utter, but which rhymes with 'gator. In fact, that sounds like a good nickname for him, good old Gator Joe.

topsecretk9

covered ground, I know but...September 25, 2002

--"The [British] dossier alleges that Iraq has made efforts to procure "significant quantities of uranium from Africa," although it gives no details about the source country or whether the effort was successful. Niger, Namibia and South Africa are known to produce uranium. The report says that over the past four years, Iraq had attempted to purchase specialized equipment and chemicals that could be used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."---
---not mentioned, but Gabon too.

Tony Blair, November 2002

--"In addition, we know Saddam has been trying to buy significant quantities of uranium from Africa, though we do not know whether he has been successful. Again key personnel who used to work on the nuclear weapons programme are back in harness. Iraq may claim that this is for a civil nuclear power programme but it has no nuclear power plants."---

This from a little wacko, UN Left Watchdog site, under "7.Compliance - Iraq"

NGO Weekly Report #2
October 7 - October 11, 2002---

"In the press statement, Iraq also said, "The study presented by Prime Minister Tony Blair is a series of lies and propaganda. …Allegations of acquiring uranium from South Africa is a bogus lie. The IAEA…has never found any shortage in their number."

IAEA, 1141, Jan 2003

3. Uranium imports

55. In response to information suggesting that Iraq had attempted to import uranium from an African country, the IAEA has requested Iraq to provide clarification. Iraq has denied that it imported or attempted to import uranium in any form after 1990. This message was also conveyed in an official letter to the IAEA on 14 January 2003.

56. During the recent high-level meeting held in Baghdad, Iraq was encouraged to take a more proactive approach to assisting the IAEA in resolving the issue. The IAEA will continue to further investigate the matter.

***Who said anything about South Africa?***

Anyways, it's interesting that no one ever said "bought", fascinating no one ever said Nigereither...**including Iraq!**

I guess Wilson just gets caught up in semantical/comprehension snafu's...no wonder he's confused everyone thinks he said Cheney sent him when he only said "at Cheny's behest"...he thinks "sought in Africa" means "bought in Niger"

(unless he was leaked classified information to base his conclusion)

topsecretk9

(sorry for accidently posting 2ce above)

but can't resist this

Tony Blair...

"In addition, we know Saddam has been trying to buy significant quantities of uranium from Africa, though we do not know whether he has been successful.

Now, I'd love for someone to ask Wilson what he thinks Tony means by the successful part---since Britain had no intention of orchestrating a version of the "tea sipping" trip for Wilson's counterpart George Galloway (there are a lot of hints, but heres one-Cheney's little inquisition was sharp eye, worth asking due diligence that would have only provided a bonus if it panned out )

I bet the biggest surprise to Cheney and Co. (when Wilson started flapping) wasn't to find HE got a junket by his wife, but to learn that his routine question to the nations intelligence braintrust agency generated a friggin' 6 day fact finding trip for something presumed COULD be (really should be) easily addressed in quick memo.

MJW

Here's something I was wondering about, which perhaps Clarice or some other legal-eagle (or legal-seagull if none of the former are available) can answer.

We know that both Fitz and Tatel like to fancy that Libby's obstruction and perjury trial is a surrogate for a trial for a security violation. Suppose Libby were convicted of the charges, and suppose Plame really was under deep cover and her exposure had resulted in the death of several associates. Could the prosecution in the penalty phase use the seriouness of the circumstances behind the investigation Libby obstructed to argue for a harsher sentence? And, if so, does this provide further justification for the discovery of Plame's actual classification status and the consequenses of the alleged outing, since Brady applies to the penalty phase as well as the trial phase?

PeterUK

The issue is not whether Iraq obtained yellow cake,the terms of the ceasefire and UN resolutions required that Iraq had to show good faith on not rearming,even a fishing expedition to Niger,broke those terms.

Topsecret,
"sn't it a little tiny oddish that a mid to low level covert cia agent would be at this event solo"
Not if your objective Is Joe Wilson.

MJW
Plames covert status went when she married Joe.

kim

T Maxx and Co. left PeterRI dribbling last night, tswoof.
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kim

Look, I left that Turkey covered in aspic, and still it mouldered.
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kim

Don't ya' luv it when one goes one way in the grocery store and the other goes the other?
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kim

That's how Tenet felt, and why he's now bemedaled.
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Wilson/Plame