The Rise Of The Cult, Day Three - Unanswered Challenges

When Peter Daou of the normally-serious Salon described some audience-boosting flatulence from Glenn Greenwald as "seminal", I took a bit of interest.  What I found was an utterly generic diatribe bashing Bush and his supporters.

Normally I follow the tack of most sensible bloggers and ignore these tirades - since they represent a near-automatic link from Atrios, Kos, and a few of the other blogs that traffic in this nonsense, I have long imagined that they were simply a useful device for boosting readership.  Hey, people like to vent, there is a readership for this, so live large.

But "seminal"?  Please - it never occurred to me that these rantings are meant to be serious objects of discussion.  The readers had their fun, move on - a few weeks ago the right was "frightened bedwetters", today Greenwald's seminal effort has us pegged as "Authoritarian Cultists", and a few weeks hence we will be something new (any chance of making the next one alliterative?  "Corrupt Christo-cultists", maybe?  Nah.)

My view remains that serious discussion of these Bush-bashing riffs makes as much sense as pondering the intellectual output of an open-mike beer-belching contest at spring break in Fort Lauderdale.  OK, that is a bit of a flawed analogy - with the Bush-bashers, it is a year-round activity.

However, Mr. Daou is deeply concerned about "Unanswered Challenges", so I am exhorting him to answer mine.  First, let's recap Greenwald's Garglings:

Now, in order to be considered a "liberal," only one thing is required – a failure to pledge blind loyalty to George W. Bush. The minute one criticizes him is the minute that one becomes a "liberal," regardless of the ground on which the criticism is based. And the more one criticizes him, by definition, the more "liberal" one is.

E-Z, yes?  Criticize Bush, and you will be re-labeled a "liberal".  Breakthrough stuff.

So, my three part challenge:

(1) As James Taranto noted, Greenwald's links don't actually lead to any supporting evidence - for example, careful link-followers will note that Andrew Sullivan implies that Brent Bozell re-labeled him, writing "All of that makes me a 'liberal.' "  However, Mr. Bozell (or whoever wrote this) said that Andrew "has been off the conservative reservation for at least a couple of years."  The word "liberal", which Andrew quotes, is applied to The New Republic, and I doubt they would object.

Or - if Messrs. Greenwald and Daou, or their supporters, could find real evidence of Cult leaders actually re-labeling Bush critics as "liberal", that would advance this seminal effort and deepen our understanding of this important work.

(2) Let's test the predictive power of this new social science hypothesis by applying it to the experience of Heather Wilson (R, NM).  On Feb 8 she broke publicly with Bush on NSA oversight, so the Cult has had almost two weeks to attack her.

Greenwald specifically cited Hinderaker, Malkin, Goldberg, Hewitt, and Goldstein.  So, and this couldn't be easier - how many of these five have re-labeled Heather Wilson a "liberal"?

Full Disclosure - I spent about five minutes with the Powerline search function and came up empty on "Heather Wilson".  I have not bothered to check the others.  Suspenseful, yes?  Let's fly under the bridge!

And please - if this is a cult, I expect the leaders to lead it.  Somewhere, in someone's comments section, almost anything can be found.  But if the best evidence anyone can find of Cult relabeling is from some unknown commenter at Protein Wisdom, bring it in so we can mock it. 

(3) If any of Team Daou/Greenwald are still with us, please try to respond to the point made by Taranto and others - if this is a Cult, why did so many conservatives rebel over Harriet Miers?  Or, to pick another, how about immigration reform?

This is so exciting - don''t you love it when a "seminal" work provokes discussion?  The old back and forth, conducted with mutual respect and motivated only by a desire for the truth?

OK, speaking for the Cultists, I can't say I sense a lot of mutual respect.  And given the absence of evidence on offer, I don't think either Daou or Greenwald hold any real evidence in advancing anyone's understanding or discerning "the truth".

But wasting a few more minutes highlighting the vacuity on display at Salon is fine with me.  If I had that perch, and was interested in promoting lefty bloggers, I hope I would push myself to offer my readership a bit more than the latest Bush-bashing ravings linked by Kos and Atrios - most folks who want that sort of intellectual pornography probably can find it with no help from Salon.

Just to give Mr. Daou a boost to get started - pick a post at random from The Anonymous Liberal.  Or check out The Next Hurrah - they aren't exactly undiscovered, but they aren't the Blog Monsters they could be, either.

OK, that's enough kisses of death for one morning.

FINAL:  Mr. Daou has his own little challenge "proving", to his satisfaction, that the media tilts right, with specific emphasis on the Cheney Valentine's Weekend Massacre.  And he is troubled that none on the right are rising t ohis challenge.  Gee - call folks "Authoritarian Cultists", and they tune you out - who wouldda thunk? 

Besides  - the VP shoots a man, and the press does not get told for nearly a day?  Of course that is news, and of course the press over-reacted.

Some quick thoughts:

(1) If a coin touted as "fair" comes up heads seventy-five times in one hundred trials, color me suspicious.  And please don't offer the twenty-five "tails" as proof that the coin is fair.

In this context, even if the media sometimes tilts right, that hardly proves it mostly, or always tilts right.  A real test would look at "all" the Cheney coverage, and who is going to do that?

(2)  David Gregory apologized for his outburst; Dana Milbank was scolded by the WaPo ombudsman.  Since these two were targets of criticism from the right, does this mean we win?

UPDATE:  I'm getting a real Protein Shake on the old traffic meter.  But will it stay down?

Comments

[Rick Ballard]

"does this mean we win?

My understanding is that we are only allowed to "win" on the first Tuesday following the first Monday in November of even numbered years. It doesn't seem very fair but I have learned to take some satisfaction from winning only once in 730 days. I just don't understand why t'other side isn't satisfied with a 729/1 record.

[Sue]

A scolding of Dana Milbank? It was more of an 'okay, he shouldn't have done it, but on the other hand look at the free publicity we have gotten'. And really, it was mostly conservatives who objected, so what's the harm? I'm sure he was properly remorseful.

[Barney Frank]

TM,
This thread gives me a chance to follow up on my question in the Dick Cheney thread about how the Dems morphed into a gaggle of loony lefties so fast. Your answer and others was that money needs and maybe the internet combined to make the left ascendant. But that still doesn't answer why the sensble Democrats have either disappeared or been so craven as to stand by while their party is highjacked. The decent Dems, other than Joe Lieberman, seem to have just fallen off the face of the earth.
Incidentally Pete and Glenn oughta take a look at the Corner at NRO the last couple of days to see how anyone who criticises Bush is a liberal. They're outdoing each other lambasting his domestic policies. And I guess that makes me a liberal too, cause I don't think they go nearly far enough.

[maryrose]

Gregory and Milbank stepped over the line as did Clinton and Gore or should I say Clintons-and again no consequences. Milbank and Gregory also marginalized themselves with Independents and red state voters who will now not take them seriously ever again. McClelland was right- it became all about them and contrary to their reactions -they loved the spotlight being on them The two of them are like grifters and con artists-kinda of like their role models -the Clintons.

[Huggy]

"seem to have just fallen off the face of the earth." Most politicians are opportunist. "sensble Democrats" just changed parties. That’s why so many RINOs and too much spending.

[Barney Frank]

Huggy,

"'Sensble Democrats' just changed parties."
Sorry about the original typo in 'sensible' but who exactly are all these changelings? The geeks on Capitol Hill have all been around for a long time and other than a small handful how many have actually changed parties? I considered that possibility previously and rejected it.
That the Dems have been taken over by whackos seems self evident. That is was not only a bloodless coup but an unopposed one is bizarre.
Maybe it has been an ongoing process which took longer than it seems and it has merely been replacement by attrition as the sensible Dems picked up their jacks and went home, not overnight but over the years we were distracted by Clinton and Bin Laden et al.

[Cecil Turner]

Mr. Daou has his own little challenge "proving", to his satisfaction, that the media tilts right . . .

Yeah, you gotta like that debate technique. Make an assertion, then "challenge" opponents to prove you wrong. Gets rid of that nasty burden of proof while simultaneously forcing your opponent to prove a negative (if you phrase the question correctly). I also liked his demand that critics not distort his arguments:

"I welcome criticism, but all I ask is that the criticism accurately reflect my position."

Which might have been fair, if he hadn't been intentionally misrepresenting others'.

[Ken McCracken]

Is there anything funnier than liberals opining on who is and is not a 'real' conservative?

They wouldn't know a real conservative if one came up and snatched their copy of Das Kapital out of their hands.

Some of the comments at Greenwald's blog are precious, coming from people who probably think Hillary is a 'moderate'.

[Davebo]

In this context, even if the media sometimes tilts right, that hardly proves it mostly, or always tilts right. A real test would look at "all" the Cheney coverage, and who is going to do that?

Exactly Tom. My biggest gripe with the media's coverage of the Cheney shooting is that they simply refuse to report on all the good things that came out of Cheney's firearm accident.

The old Lawyer got a complete physical examination which may well have uncovered previously undiagnosed problems.

The secret service got some real world training in crisis management that just can't be simulated in a classroom.

And of course, that nice Mrs. Armstrong got some much needed face time on air.

[topsecretk9]

Hey, no fair!

if this is a Cult, why did so many conservatives rebel over Harriet Miers? Or, to pick another, how about immigration reform?

These are DOCUMENTED differences TM, so they DON'T COUNT.

[Syl]

And of course, that nice Mrs. Armstrong got some much needed face time on air.

And we met that neat doctor who gave the press briefings about Whittington--the one who answered one silly press question with a 'So what?'

He said something else neat in a clip I saw yesterday--I don't remember what it was though.

[maryrose]

I think Alan Simpson said it best on Fox News Sunday, Davebo:
The fact that Cheney would choose Corpus Christi newspaper Over theNYT was the real bone of contention. As if that newspaper was not capable of handling the story.
I read some of the responses to Peter Daou assertion and most of them sound like a left spin zone to me.Not one talked about concrete issues or concerns. It was all we're great and you are not-atta-boy stuff.

[larwyn]

Barney,
This excerpt from a recent post by Robert Godwin of OneCosmos may provide a clue to the Dems being taken over. The post is actually about Language and religions.

Listen, for example, to this piece of unhinged Cheney hatred written by that intellectual giant, Alec Baldwin, on puffingtonhost yesterday: "Cheney is a terrorist. He terrorizes our enemies abroad and innocent citizens here at home indiscriminately. Who ever thought Harry Whittington would be the answer to America's prayers. Finally, someone who might get that lying, thieving Cheney into a courtroom to answer some direct questions."

This is an example of almost "pure" unconscious logic, identical in tone to the kind of insane rhetoric that comes out of the Arab world. Although the statement appears completely illogical, it actually obeys the strict logic of the unconscious. It's just a different kind of logic. As in the recent discoveries of chaos and complexity theories, Freud's discovery was that apparent irrationality is not arbitrary but ordered: it is patterned irrationality.

That is, according to Freud, unconscious logic obeys five main principles: timelessness, placelessness, non-contradiction, displacement and condensation, and inability to distinguish between imagination and reality.

Food for thought!

[Syl]

This whole cult idea is stupid because I'm not a conservative, I voted for Bush, and disagree with conservatives who disagree with Bush. There are many. Libertarians too. I disagree with a lot of positions they take but I, rather than feeling I belong to the cult, am the cult itself.

A cult of one. I defend Bush all the time and am proud of it. But I don't call those conservatives and libertarians who disagree with Bush liberals. LOL Perish the thought.

[Syl]

I think the fallacy in Greenwald's thinking is the fact that Bush is actually a liberal except on certain social issues. I don't even think Bush is personally against gay marriage.

So plug Bush as liberal into the equation, and the entire dynamic shifts and it would be impossible for a conservative to call someone who disagrees with Bush a liberal because it is actually the opposite. Those who disagree with Bush are the true conservatives.

Bush being liberal is what has totally confused the Left and why they haven't figured out what the GOP is all about.

[Davebo]

The fact that Cheney would choose Corpus Christi newspaper Over theNYT was the real bone of contention. As if that newspaper was not capable of handling the story.

Well, as a former resident of Corpus Christi and subscriber to the paper I don't want to speak ill of their reporters.

But I found it odd that after the ranch spokesperson/owner referred to the accident as "being peppered, it happens all the time" I was a bit dissapointed that the reporter didn't ask a follow up question about how many guests of the ranch spend days in intensive care after being "peppered".

But then I have lots of gripes with the media in general. Maybe I should start referring to them all with the monolithic "emmessemmm" moniker eh?

;0)

[Lew Clark]

It depends on what the meaning of is, is. Or, in this case what the meaning of left is. The American left not only move the goal post forward and back, they have moved it way to the left. In the real world, if you took all the people in America and found their center, then took the MSM and Dems and found their center, the latter center would be way to the left of the first. And that is the center they recognize. So anyone to the right of that, including many Americans to the left of true center are "rightists". Hillary is a moderate because she is at their center. Few are willing to admit to being way left of there because they don't want to be called Socialists or Communists.
As far as a cult in lockstep with Bush, there are few conservatives that agree with all of Bush's domestic policies. And we even disagree often with some foreign policy. But their "cult" demands Bush bashing 24/7. When your that much of a zealot, someone that isn't totally faithful must be a Bush cultist, because the truly faithful will never agree with the "evil one". Heretics must burn, even if they are infrequent heretics.

[Syl]

Yeah, well not all hunters who were peppered are 78 years old.

[kim]

Out with the Medicare prescription benefit. What do you think this is, a drug cult?
============================================

[Davebo]

Yeah, well not all hunters who were peppered are 78 years old.

Very true. The skin skinned old Coot! At least he had the good manners to apologize for his thin skin eh?

Come on, the story is dying down within 10 days of it occuring. By comparison the story of a sitting vice president shooting a man and then refusing to answer law enforcement's questions on the matter at least initially, has gotten about 1% of the air time that a girl missing in Aruba has received.

What more do ya want?

[Lysistrata]

Lew Clark - you're absolutely right. They say that we're the ones who are being made to march in lockstep and sing the same tune. But the second that anybody who's moderate or centrist expresses the least bit of agreement with Bush (or disagreement with the lefties), the screams of "Bushbot", "Bush apologist", and "facist" rend the air. Don't they realize that they're not going to win any fans (or elections) by stating that everybody who even slightly disagrees with them is a bigoted, warmongering wingnut?

[SteveMG]

Hell, excellent post by TM.

Nothing to add except, "What he said."

SMG

P.S. Wittmann's response was almost as good ("Cult of Bush").

http://bullmooseblogger.blogspot.com/

[kim]

The cult is those with BDS in all its myriad manifestations. That is such a huge source of delusional thinking.
============================================

[Lew Clark]

Not to beat this dead horse much more, but since the spin on the Cheney incident is now, not late reporting to the proper members of the press, but delay in talking to law enforcement. I never hunted much, tend more toward fishing. But my few times hunting no one got shot or "peppered", so I never had to deal with it. But I do know of a few cases. All "peppering" with birdshot. In not one of those cases were law enforcement called to the hunting site. If the wound needed no serious medical attention, they went home or back to the camp and treated it. In one case where they did go to the hospital, just to be safe, they had to fill out a police report there because it was a “gunshot wound“. But, even then, there was no investigation. Just a report went in from the hospital.
Is this typical, or just "unlawful" conduct among my associates. Does anyone have experience where someone in their hunting party was "peppered"? Were the police called to the scene?

[topsecretk9]

Syl,

This whole cult idea is stupid because I'm not a conservative,

You'd be surprised, Daouactually makes this defense for Seminal Cult Expert Greenwald during this seminal debate.

Gymnastics, I tell you.

[topsecretk9]

Syl,

Below Daou's comment, notice Sue politely smacks it down.

[TM]

From Daou:

I welcome criticism, but all I ask is that the criticism accurately reflect my position.

What? I don't even want to play if I can't call him an "Authoritarian Cultist". Well, that's taken, but I'll come up with something soon - I have a nephew who is a college sophomore.

[hrtshpdbox]

It's a real stretch to call that an "apology" from Gregory. Yeah, he's sorry he called McClelland a jerk, with caveats; the larger picture, he makes clear, is his fine work as a "proxy" for the public's thirst for facts about important issues like this. What a goofball.

[Sue]

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/02/the_rise_of_the.html#comment-14182519>Davebo

If this story has legs without making up stuff, why do people continue to make stuff up? Cheney did not refuse to cooperate with the local authorities.

[SteveMG]

Well, that's taken, but I'll come up with something soon - I have a nephew who is a college sophomore.

Holy smokes, Tom is bringing his "A" game today.

And spring training has just started.

Hmm, hope he doesn't blow his elbow out by May.

SMG

[kim]

Of course, Lew, but this is MSM navel gazing, only on close inspection it was their asshole.
============================================

[TM]

It's a real stretch to call that an "apology" from Gregory.

What Gregory might have said:

I want to apologize to Scott McClellan for saying he was a jerk, instead of only thinking it; and I want to apologize to the American people, since I, their unelected but vital proxy, failed to uncover this key info in a timely fashion, and forced them to endure a barrage of Sunday talk shows devoted to Olympic hype and NSA bashing.

Yeah. we're sorry, too.

[kim]

How about 'Brown Pajama Shirts'?

We've got the Bushketball Jones.

How about 'The Faithful Witless'?
====================================

[Sue]

I call them llamas.

[Davebo]

If this story has legs without making up stuff, why do people continue to make stuff up? Cheney did not refuse to cooperate with the local authorities.

And I never claimed he did. What we do know is that local law enforcement showed up at the ranch to question witnesses and were refused access by someone, assumably the secret service.

Again, did anyone really think the story of the Vice President shooting someone under any cirucumstances would fade away in a few days??

It's pretty much run it's course now and I'd say it's been covered pretty fairly overall.

[SteveMG]

Perhaps the best, if not the solitary, noted example of Greenwald's thesis - viz., critics re-label as "liberals" those non-liberals who oppose the Bush W.H.'s policies - may be Sean Hannity's repeated, abeit relatively recent, characterization of Andrew Sullivan as a "liberal" journalist.

Although, admittedly I'm not sure exactly where Hannity is situated on the "Cult Leader Flow Chart®" since my copy seems to be missing. Clearly, he's below Limbaugh but I guess above O'Reilly?

Anyone have their copy handy?

SMG

[kim]

Fairly covered, Davebo, would have been as Lew outlined above; it would have been ignored as an unfortunate, private, incident.
=======================================

[larwyn]

NOTE: THIS STARTED LAST WEDNESDAY
- so fill the airways with Cheney
we can ignore Gore and Minnesota's
DLC.

Excerpts from today's PowerLine.
Subtitle might read:
We support the Troops.
We are Patriotic.
We are NOT UNPATRIOTIC!
YOU ARE UN-AMERICAN!!!!!

(Yeah, Nancy & Harry, that'll work.)

<
The Compleat Democrats' Disgrace

In Minnesota we are in the middle of a story that has dropped from view in the media, but it is a story that should attain national prominence. The Democratic Party has undertaken a campaign to suppress two advertisements giving voice to the sentiments of Iraq war veterans and Gold Star Families who support the war......

........In Minnesota the mask has fallen from the Democratic Party. It has condemned the message of Lt. Col. Bob Stephenson and the other veterans supporting the mission in Iraq as "un-American." Yet it has gone beyond its outrageous condemnation of the ads. It has actually sought to suppress the message of the featured war veterans and Gold Star Families, emailing Party members and urging them to contact television stations demanding "the removal of the ads."..........

.......The Democratic Party has officially pronounced that Col. Stephenson and his ads are "un-American." That such a thing could happen is almost beyond belief -- a Marine officer with more than ten years of active duty labeled "un-American" for supporting America's foreign policy -- but it is nevertheless true. And attention must be paid.

JOHN adds: To my knowledge, not a single Democratic office-holder, in Minnesota or elsewhere, has disassociated himself from the Minnesota Democratic Party's position that it is "un-American" to support our government's policies in Iraq, and that expressions of such support should be banned from the airways.

Posted by Scott at 08:06 AM

[kim]

Mine's been recalled for revision, SMG, but as I recall, you were listed as a 'Big Bohunkum', and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining thereunto.
====================

[kim]

larwyn, they're sorry. What more can I say?
=============================================

[topsecretk9]

may be Sean Hannity's repeated, abeit relatively recent, characterization of Andrew Sullivan as a "liberal" journalist.

Funny, I never saw it as "re"-labeling, but maybe that is the impression. Most criticism I've seen is his disingenuous "REASONS" for Bush criticisms, not that he disagrees with Bush

Really, in reading Sullivan over the years, I'm pretty convinced (my opinion) that if Bush supported Gay marriage when the issue was raging, there would not be 9,876 posts on gitmo and torture.

[Specter]

I've been having this debate over at Patterico's with two of his trolls. I said it was a dead issue and that is was the local sheriff that decided to wait to do interviews until the next morning. Their latest counter was a link to this article where Blumenthal of the NYT fame states:

Then, the sheriff's account went on, Kirk called to say he had been turned back at the ranch gate by a Border Patrol agent who said "he didn't know anything about the accident."

The words "turned back" are now resonating around the Society of Subversion as proof of a conspiracy. Yet, as I pointed out, that is not what the Sheriff said in his report:

After I hung up, Captain Kirk called me back and said that he’d made contact with a Border Patrol agent at the Armstrong gate and that the Agent told him that he didn’t know anything about the accident. I then told Captain Kirk that it was fine and that I would contact someone on the Ranch.

What are you going to do?

[Nash]

"OS - if Messrs. Greenwald and Daou, or their supporters, could find real evidence of Cult leaders actually re-labeling Bush critics as "liberal", that would advance this seminal effort and deepen our understanding of this important work."

Mendacity, thy name is TM.

Let's see, to play this little game according to your rules, the actual word "liberal" must be used or it's a no go? If the description or complaint fits what most people have been quick to call "liberal" in the past, but the word isn't itself used, then that's not an example to be used? What is it with you and scare quotes, anyway?

To everyone else out there not constrained by made-up rules, being called liberal would include being described as, e.g., "favoring reform or progress, as in religion, education, etc.; specifically, favoring political reforms tending toward democracy and presonal freedom for the individual; progressive." (Webster's New World Dictionary; Collins-World Pub.)

"liberal" v. liberal:

Makes all the difference between TM-esque nonsense and an honest discussion.

[Specter]

Nash = liberal

[Sue]

You mean like referring to anyone who supports the war in Iraq as a neocon? What kind of -esque is that?

[TM]

...may be Sean Hannity's repeated, abeit relatively recent, characterization of Andrew Sullivan as a "liberal" journalist.

As Taranto noted (and as Sully himself noted), Sullivan does defy easy characterization.

"Liberal" is wrong, but he surely is not mainstream conservative.

Well, unless both Hannity *and* Rush say so. And Hinderaker. But so far my dental fillings are silent.

Here is Sully back in Nov 2002 going on about his new self-declared status as an "eagle":

THE EAGLES: I'm tired of this hawk-dove paradigm. And we all know how tired left and right are as useful labels. (Yes, I know I use them, but sometimes, you gotta.) More revealing, perhaps, is the fiscal-conservative-social-liberal category, in which I think I'd probably be counted. (The roster of categories is therefore: social and fiscal libs; social and fiscal conservatives; socially liberal but fiscally conservative independents; and socially conservative and fiscally liberal independents.) But the war changes the matrix again, I think. There's a new group of people out there who are socially liberal but also foreign policy realists, especially among those who have been awakened to political engagement by September 11. Some of these used to be Scoop Jackson Democrats, but today's breed doesn't buy into the big government liberalism of the 1960s and 1970s either. Some are neocons who don't love the social right. Others are just Generation X and Y, who simply accept the social diversity of modern culture and want to see it defended against theocratic barbarians. These people are not comfortable with the Republicans' flirtation with the religious right, or their prosecution of the drug war or mixing of church and state; and they're not impressed by the Democrats' lack of seriousness in foreign policy or enmeshment with public sector interest groups. They're politically homeless, these people - but were probably key swing voters in the last election. Instead of hawks and doves, call these people "eagles." I think they'll play a key part in shaping the politics and culture of the next few years. Are you one?

This preceded his gay marriage divorce from Bush, of course. But he seemed to self-describe as fiscal con, social lib, war hawk. Hey, 2 out of 3 "conservative"!

[kim]

I'm a buzzard.
==============

[TM]

And someone called him a "prominent liberal" last Oct 2005, but link rot has set in and I can't even find the cite with Lexis. Weird.

[Appalled Moderate]

There were followers of a leader named Bush
Who caused pains in a left blogger's tush
They've drunk cool aid, he said
So why aren't they dead?
But none heard him over Fox News's "whoosh"

[kim]

These acolytes of an ex lush,
About him they do seem to gush.
But nary a word,
From the little old bird.
To tout others he's in a big rush.
==================================

[SteveMG]

TM:
And someone called him a "prominent liberal" last Oct 2005, but link rot has set in and I can't even find the cite with Lexis. Weird.

The link was to an article-cum-press release by World Ahead Publishing (?), the firm that published the book that Sullivan was criticizing.

Here's the link:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20060201/bs_prweb/prweb340451_1

SMG

[Larry]

The Loony Left Losers' misappropriation and vile, despicable perversion of the perfectly good word "liberal" is the real travesty here. I refuse to call the moonbats liberals because they're the very antithesis of the word's good, original meaning. I'd love to see a movement along these lines: Call them illiberals to remove the mask from the, at best socialist, progressive "cult".

[topsecretk9]

Let's see, to play this little game according to your rules, the actual word "liberal" must be used or it's a no go?

Geez. Who started the little game? Next time send out your rule book so we know what arguments we are allowed to make so as not to disrupt your meme.

[Sue]

I don't play by no stinkin' rules...

[JM Hanes]

In Daou World, if I disagree with Bush on anything, I'll be called a liberal by "faux" conservatives. If I agree with with Bush on anything, progressives will call me an authoritarian cultist. And this is supposed to make conservatives look overwrought?

[Slartibartfast]

After I hung up, Captain Kirk called me back and said that he’d made contact with a Border Patrol agent at the Armstrong gate and that the Agent told him that he didn’t know anything about the accident.

And the only reason Captain Kirk didn't slingshot the Enterprise around the Sun, go back in time and actually witness the event was because he was giving special favors to Cheney. Plus, the SS said he couldn't.

[Davebo]

Fairly covered, Davebo, would have been as Lew outlined above; it would have been ignored as an unfortunate, private, incident.

Err.. Well...

If your gripe is that the media didn't ignore the fact that the vice president shot a man it's a safe bet you will never be happy with any media that actually, you know, reports the news and all.

Spector

Well that is indeed odd isn't it? No wonder we have immigration problems! The Border Patrol is too busy gaurding ranches and not the border!

[topsecretk9]

BTW, do you see what Nash has just said here?

If the description or complaint fits what most people have been quick to call "liberal" in the past, but the word isn't itself used, then that's not an example to be used?

So, this is Greenwald's goal. By labeling conservatives who he perceives as ostracizing any conservative who criticizes or disagrees with Bush an "authoritarian cultist", he is attempting to ostracize any and all conservative opinion.

See, if conservatives challenge his meme with examples, then old Nash comes along and adds a new caveat "they don't have to *use* the word *liberal*"

OH, okay...so any critique of any idea by a conservative fits then.

This whole thing got started by Andrew in a typically selfish way of his (basically he used Greenwald). I stopped relating to Andrew because I didn't realize how disingenuous he is, not because I think he turned liberal. He can't be honest--Gay Marriage IS his issue-- because to do so would be admitting he's no different than say an "anti-abortion" voter, that gay marriage colors everything for him, so instead he choose to be an insufferable defensive prig to anyone who ventured to point it out.

[kim]

What percentage of hunting accidents get reported in any newspaper? It's not generally news, nor was this.
================================================

[Davebo]

What percentage of hunting accidents get reported in any newspaper? It's not generally news, nor was this.

OK, I admit it.

Dougj changed monikers and suckered me in again!

Dangit Doug, stick to one moniker!

[larwyn]

HACKETT'S ON HARDBALL

RIGHT NOW - MSNBC!

[kim]

Whether or not Dick Cheney has hemorrhoids has more relevance to whether he can get through a day os Vice-President than if an accident befell him. Is that news? I mean really, what is your point?
========================================

[maryrose]

Matthews on Hardball made Hackett back down from his Bush is a cokehead statement.Hackett said dems swift-boated him with statements on his service in Iraq.

[maryrose]

Hackett said Sherrod Brown spread rumors about body parts abuse and different Ohio party leaders told him that.

[maryrose]

Hackett said Schumer and Reid recruited him, after Brown got in thet said they would be neutral in the primary then they went to discourage him. but Hackett says he's a team player.

[Cecil Turner]

If your gripe is that the media didn't ignore the fact that the vice president shot a man it's a safe bet you will never be happy with any media that actually, you know, reports the news and all.

I'm trying to see how this incident rates more than a mention in passing on the nightly news (snide chuckle optional--but encouraged) and . . . it doesn't. Now Drudge tells us there'll be another week of breathless coverage, crowding out actual news stories, just in case we missed it. The hyperventilation from the WH Press Corps confirms they have no sense of what's important. Ed Driscoll's "Spinal Tap Media" is apt: "this one goes to 11."

[larwyn]

Just put Matthews and Hackett
quotes at the
"DON'T FORGET NOMINATE A VET" post.

[Davebo]

Now Drudge tells us there'll be another week of breathless coverage, crowding out actual news stories

Some of the funniest lines seem to start with "Now Drudge tells us.."

I wonder why both Time and Newsweek are covering the story this week..... hmmm... what could it be.....

I mean, they covered the story so thoroughly in last weeks editions right?

[Sue]

In the grand scheme of things, the hunting accident was about 1 day's worth of news. Regardless of when it came out. Instead, we get 2 full weeks. Meanwhile, Fatwas are issued saying using nukes is okey dokey, Rome burns and Nero fiddles. And the band played on...

[kim]

A few grams of shot, a few kilograms of U-235. It's all about perspective. Machs nicht.
====================================================

[Davebo]

In the grand scheme of things, the hunting accident was about 1 day's worth of news

As opposed to, say, Clinton getting a haircut on an airplane and holding up air traffic for hours?

Or say, the Clinton's stealing all the china off of Air Force 1 while flying to the Bush innaugaration?

Or say, outgoing white house staff shattering glass tables, punching wholes in walls, and otherwise defiling the White House on the way out?

Oh wait. The VP really did shoot someone so perhaps none of those examples above are really relevant.

Guess you really do reap the press corps that you sew eh? Look on the bright side, at least they aren't just making crap up this go around.

[kim]

One accident vs two acts of malice and one of noblesse insousiance. Keep up the bout.
==============================================

[topsecretk9]

Or say, outgoing white house staff shattering glass tables, punching wholes in walls, and otherwise defiling the White House on the way out?

Was this a 2 week story? If it was I guess I must've tuned it out.

[Gary Maxwell]

And I bet Davebo thinks Peter Daou is right and the media is horribly biased in favor of conservatives. Just look at the post above. Perhaps he will come right out and admit it if we ask him right out. Then we can all have a drink, it's cocktail hour and the rules of the game are whenever a lefty tells us the press is tilted to the right, you must chug your drink.

[kim]

I'llll sheeee uurr Glen Gross Close and raise you a milyon bunnios.
===========================================

[Cecil Turner]

"The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and..."

[Sue]

God, if we sowed this press corps, we really do deserve to reap it...

For what it is worth, I only heard 2 of those stories...the haircut on the airplane while campaigning, don't remember about tying up air traffic, but seems to me I do recall it costing him quite a bit, not that I cared, I voted for him {hanging my head in shame}...and the taking of gifts that had to be brought back, which actually happened. Not sure I remember it going on for 2 weeks, but then again, I wasn't sitting on the internet reading about it at the time. Makes a difference, I would hazzard to guess.

[Rick Ballard]

I voted for him {hanging my head in shame}...

Well, if it was in '92 you only have a few more years of penitence to go before hearing 'Ego te absolvo', if '96...

There's always St. Jude, I suppose.

[Sue]

96 {further shame}

[maryrose]

Davebo:
Firing all travel office employees for no reason- and then Hillary later lying about it.
Obstructing the Vince Foster investigation by barring investigators from his office while files were systematically removed /or destroyed.
300 FBI files miraculously show up in the White House and no one knows how or why they got there.
Lying in investigation of Whitewater that Hillary knew about a loan arranged by Hale to the Thrift and Loan run by Mc Dougalls
Webb Hubbell "taking a bullet" for the Clintons and being eventually paid off for his service
Clintons connection to Jim Guy Tucker before he got arrested- all people pardoned later by Clinton.
Acting like 2 grifters when they{Hil and Bill} left the White House looting the place of everything that wasn't nailed to the floor
Shall I go On?

[topsecretk9]

On the cultist theory...TM and others have pointed out that conversely in order to be in good standing on the left one must seal in blood their all consuming bush hate...of which Arianna Huffington is an actual example, because I have no other way to explain the lefts loving idolization with someone who did this

"At the time, it appeared likely that MoveOn's petition would be outmatched by conservatives, who already had several Web sites dedicated to ousting Clinton. A reporter who interviewed Blades on the day after the MoveOn launch wrote, "A quick search on Yahoo turns up no sites for 'censure Clinton' but 20 sites for 'impeach Clinton,'" adding that Scott Lauf's impeachclinton.org Web site had already delivered 60,000 petitions to Congress. Salon.com reported that Arianna Huffington, then a right-wing maven, had collected 13,303 names on a Web site, resignation.com, which called on Clinton to resign."

[Sue]

Sure, Maryrose, rub it in my face.

As we are in a Catholic mode, and confession is also good for the soul, or so I've been told, I was all set to vote for Gore, until the debates. He lost me at the debates. {shame surrounds me, it consumes me}

[topsecretk9]

Sue, I voted for Jerry Brown in the CA primary in 92 okay...so, um...don't feel so bad.

[Sue]

Top,

Misery does love company. Thanks.

[topsecretk9]

I am convinced that Arianna has made gobs of money being the biggest fraud in politics and punditry (I wonder if trade-sports has a bet on whether Arianna turns Republican again if a Democrat President is elected?)

[TM]

From my new fave, Nash:

Mendacity, thy name is TM.

Actually, those art minest initials.

Geez. Who started the little game? Next time send out your rule book so we know what arguments we are allowed to make so as not to disrupt your meme.

LOL.

Good job, Nash - we tell people and tell people about some of the commenters that pass through, but no one ever believes us...

[Sue]

Guess which one Mr. Daou chose...

http://daoureport.salon.com/synopsis.aspx?synopsisId=816089e8-ca9f-4733-9af1-51079ef22481>Daou

So while the crickets chirped, I waited for the inevitable tide of rightwing blog posts and emails proving me wrong and demonstrating, once and for all, that pervasive claims of liberal media bias are indeed true. No such luck. All I've gotten so far is a trickle of posts, which I attribute to one of three things: either rightwing bloggers weren't aware of my challenge, they didn't think it warranted a response, or they lack the evidence to back up their claims.

::grin:: Gotta love 'em.

[PeterUK]

Davebo certainly knows how to milk a played out story.

[Sue]

Maybe http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/02/the_rise_of_the.html#comment-14193371>this post should have been on the Moonbat thread...

[PeterUK]

Wonderful sense of proportion,this Davebo

"Or say, the Clinton's stealing all the china off of Air Force 1 while flying to the Bush innaugaration?"

This is called theft.

"Or say, outgoing white house staff shattering glass tables, punching wholes in walls, and otherwise defiling the White House on the way out?

This is called vandelism,sometimes criminal damage.

"Oh wait. The VP really did shoot someone so perhaps none of those examples above are really relevant."

..and this is called an accident

[maryrose]

Sue,
Voting for Clinton once -mistake in judgment
Voting for him twice-as the nuns would say-God help you.
Gore in debates was God-awful. My mother-in-law and I just sat there watching in disbelief at all those sighs-
Even some liberal nun friends said -this guy is a loser, and voted for Bush-then on to recount history!

[maryrose]

Like Larwyn my family is split on politics-
Surprisingly the most conservative are the college age kids who actively work on campaigns. We have a few left over from the sixties so as a consequence on my husband's side of the family we don't discuss politics.It's safer that way.

[Specter]

Davebo,

Do you live near one of the borders? Do you even know what is going on there? You are right - why was a Border Security guy guardng the gate? But that one guy wasn't going to make any difference at the border. And being part of Homeland Security, and part of the group that therefore protects the government, I can't see that it is a bad thing that the guy was guarding the gate.

But the funny thing is what I encounter from "itellectuals" like you every time. You try to make a big deal out of something - especially if it was printed in the NYT. I come back with evidence that not only proves the NYT wasn't correct, but pointedly was lying or bending the truth beyond bounds. And then, rather than admit..."oops I guess what I believed was wrong"(i.e. that Captain Kirk was not turned away at the gate), you change the complaint and start with something new. That is beyond ridiculous.

[MayBee]

Sue- I voted for Clinton, '96, and I'm not sorry. Dole would have been a good President but I can't help it, I really did like Clinton and I still agree with many of his politics. I considered Gore in 2000, but voted for Bush.
So you have company...

[Sue]

You know Maryrose, I wasn't all the concerned with the outcome of the recount. I had, until shortly before election day, thought I would vote for Gore. So, either way would have been fine with me, at the time. I even applauded Gore's concession speech when it finally came. I even forgot about Gore, as he stayed pretty much hidden, licking his wounds. I don't know what happens to people when they lose to Bush. They go off the deep end...

[Sue]

Specter,

It might behoove those who have no knowledge of Texas geography to get out a map and locate the ranch. They might not appear so ignorant as to why a border guard was near.

[Sue]

Maybee,

I didn't regret my vote at the time. I voted with the full knowledge of the Paula Jones scandal, the Gennifer Flowers affair. Which is why I wondered why everyone was so het up to find out Clinton was a cad. We knew it and voted for him anyway. My regret came much later.

[maryrose]

Clinton on 60 minutes with wifey Hillary by his side lying through his teeth about his affair with Gennifer Flowers-no one else I know spells it that way- while Hil claims NOT to be Tammy Wynette -AN ABSOLUTE deal breaker for me for 8 years. The longest 8 years of my life where I was forced to pay the most taxes while Clinton ruined the life of some foolish intern and then gets a slap on the wrist for it. NBC really gets the prize for holding the Juannita Broderick story until after the impeachment vote in the Senate. Gore at his absolute worst after Clinton impeachment House vote. He lost my vote at that precise moment.

[MayBee]

Wow Sue, you could be me.

Actually, I've been consistent (no way to prove it to you guys, though) in the way I viewed Clinton's scandals and the way I've viewed Bush's. Maybe that's what makes me look like a cultist- but it's the cult of It Just Doesn't Bother Me. Hillary bothered me, because she had no reason to be stirring up trouble. But Bill? eh.

In the end, the thing that made me mad about Clinton was that he was willing to smear Monica Lewinsky's character to hide the fact that he did, in fact, accept blowjobs from her. I found that ignoble.
And his pardoning of Marc Rich was a horrible way to go out of office.

But the rest of it was the same old stuff I think they'd dig up on anyone powerful enough to make it to President these days, and live under the microscope as these guys do.

[kim]

The border guard is not restricted to the border.
=======================================