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February 25, 2006

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clarice

OT:I'm watching the closing ceremonies. Are Italians the cutest people in the world or what?

Rick Ballard

Dipenda, signora. Sempre dipenda.

Tante sono bellino, pochi sono bellisimo - come gli Americani.

clarice

I think they love life more than anyone I've ever seen. I remember reading translations of WWII German repoorts bitching about how "undiscplined" they were, pretending that they's killed people when they hadn't and hiding Jewish families in their barracks.

Some may not be so wonderful, but generally, they are delightfully human.

PeterUK

Mr Ballard,
Mr Fitzgerald seem victim of cultic behaviour himself,common amongst organisations indulging in some enterprise or other,the project becomes the be all and end all.
Those involved become convinced of the righteousness of their endeavour,because they are operating in a closed system, there is a failure to understand the futility of hundreds of stone statues with hats on staring eternally out to sea.
Perhaps Fitz is the new Flying Dutchman, doomed to gather more and more evidence about less and less for ever.

Rick Ballard

Mr Uk,

I believe you have it in one pass. Fitz has moved onto new ground, which his friends, such as McCarthy have prepared for him, to their discredit and his injury. I believe that he may see himself as a dispensor of Justice rather than as a practitioner of the law. His wings are melting and he needs to review the myth of Icarus posthaste.

Clarice,

The only people of equal good nature to the Italians that I've run accross are the Costa Ricans - and the Italians know how to live more sanely than even them. I was tickled to death once at a friends house in Italy watching the interplay between my friends uncle - a devout Communist, and my friends father - decorated by Mussolini himself. The knives cast with smiles were a delight - and all the cousins loved each other dearly. A better way of life.

clarice

My son adores both countries. (He regards CR as Switzerland with much nicer people.) I've spent a lot of time in Italy..and I agree they've perfected the art of living.(Even here--those habits endure. I remember walking through little Italy. Three women were walking arms entwined, and one said clinging tightly and endearingly to the woman in the middle,"Celia, the reason I hate you is..."LOL
Drive along the Italian Riviera and it is all restaurants and resorts and shops. And not a single person ever walking on the streets aline.Cross the border into France, and it is row after row of shrink's offices.

maryrose

Agreed Clarice;
The Italian that won the 1500 meter speed skating was cute as a button. They are an enthusiastic and happy people.
My concern in this case is the same asJMH. The judge worries me Look at Tatel-How could he have let this get so far. Look at Ito in the OJ case. That one was a disaster.

richard mcenroe

If you want to understand Italians, try to find a copy of The Little World of Don Camillo...

MayBee

Ahh, you point out why it is such a travesty that Valerie will never be made Rome bureau chief.

clarice

Walton is a Black Republican judge,,he is not Tatel or Ito. He will do what he thinks is the right thing under the law, and in his case he actually has some idea of what the law is.

clarice

Thanks for the tip, RM. I'll keep an eye out for it.

Rick Ballard

Richard,

Yep. Guareschi did the best job I've seen in laying out Italian life and politics. Peppone and Don Camillo are ungforgettable. If one wants to understand Italian history, Montanelli is the best bet (if you can find a translation). Both well hated by the Marxists, and with good reason.

clarice

I took some Italian lessons some time ago, and then getting bored with them decided to just try to read it..with a dictionary handy..figuring the nouns would give me a clue about the tenses of the verbs..I started with Malaparte's La Pelle, but then got tied up with other things. I remembered the rich dscriptions of the Neopolitan whores meeting, servicing and stealing from the American soldiers..

JM Hanes

RB
I feel a poem bowling down the pike,
Cause when it come to sports I take a hike.
If iambs & pentameters bug you
Just bust 'em with your bocce balls clean through.
Beware though, boules may boomerang in flight,
And bungee jump your shuttlecock on sight!

Rick Ballard

In truth, small joy I take,
From sport, nor law, if truth be spake.

Joy comes, if come it might
From truth - best mixed with some small spite.

For truth, though mocked and oft forsworn
has strength that o'ercomes all scorn.

As sport lifts victor 'pon shoulders high,
Truth e'er shining draws e'er nigh.

While sports green laurels moulder with dark must.
Truth shines eternal, escaped from dust.

Hmmm - if Sunday be sonnets, could Monday be limericks.

'Cause limericks are much easier - more fun too.

pollyusa

TM
I appreciate your kind words.

Rick Ballard

I just wish Texas Toast would post more

I agree, I'll add Anonymous Liberal and Cecil Turner to that list... and thanks.

topsecretk9

I really didn't it would get picked up

Not a chance, I read everything you write. Apology accepted.

Cecil Turner

Similarly, Fitz apparently never pursued the possibility that the initial leak was through Kristof and Pincus

I haven't seen anything to indicate that Pincus knew about Plame before he was told on 7/12/03

Why we're chasing this one down is a bit of a mystery to me

You're kidding, right?



Syl,

because Libby didn't out her to anyone who went to print.

Cooper

TM

*IF* the WaPo story is describing a courtroom exchange (and not a hallway clarification for the press) in which the defense described the source as *not* in the WH, and the prosecutor did not correct that, then the NSC would seem to be out.

Why would the prosecutor necessarily correct that?

I'm not saying Libby's lawyer is incorrect, just that Fitz wouldn't correct that information because that would reveal information about the source.


Personally, I think Jeff is one of the best Plameologists around. He has a keen eye for detail and sees the forest.

I'll add, I've picked up links and information here that I wouldn't have found anywhere else. Tom has a diverse group of commenters and that leads to a broader understanding of any issue.

larwyn

Rick,
Loved the poem and love this line:

"From truth - best mixed with some small spite."

Sounds like the motto for TAC comment threads.

cathyf
In other-words...how can Fitz charge Libby with throwing sand in the Umpires face, when the Umpire was wearing a blindfold to begin with.
Hey, TS, you stole that from me! Ok, maybe you came up with it independently -- I gotta admit that it's obvious.

I think Fitz is going to come to really regret the baseball metaphors. Every umpire/referee heckle ever made comes to mind...

cathy :-)

JM Hanes

LimmeRicks are OK by me,
You name it, I'll game it (for free! --
Unless you leave letters
Out, forcing your betters
To blankety blank missing eeee's).

JM Hanes

P.S
Liked your pome (as Walt Whitman would call it) very much. Seems apropos that I happened to be re-reading Desiderata today in working up a cite to a line that has always resonated with me:

"No doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should."

topsecretk9

Polly
Apology accepted.

Thanks. I can be an ag-ro spaz and sometimes just need to put a cork in it. You know, it's weird...you'd think a keyboard might help curb my natural proclivity to blurt out any old thing. I can't say I'll stop being a pain, but an unwarranted pain I'll try.


cathyF
Hey, TS, you stole that from me! Ok, maybe you came up with it independently -- I gotta admit that it's obvious.

Cathyf I promise at the moment it popped to the upper parts of my brain, but I am certain you put it there in the first place.

Like Libby I forgot I had heard it before. (or some variation)

topsecretk9

Very Off Topic, but juicy-like


CLOSING IN
Word out of the Defense Intelligence Agency and law enforcement sources has the FBI and the Department of Justice comparing notes and dates on who in the U.S. Senate received national security briefings on both the overseas terrorist prisons and the NSA overseas terrorist monitoring programs, and when those briefings took place.

"The number of Senators who received briefings is not as large as people think," says one law enforcement source. "These were programs with a limited 'Need to Know" list on Capitol Hill."

Federal investigators looking into the leaks of both those programs to the press are zeroing in on the Senate, and are expected to continue to hold interviews of both Senators and their senior staff in the coming days. "This investigation is moving forward at a pretty fast clip," says the law enforcement source. "We're not looking at a two-year probe. We're talking about moving fast."

As yet, cooperation from the media outlets -- the Washington Post and the New York Times has been minimal, but investigators aren't sure they will need full cooperation to make the case. "The Hill may be all we need," says the source.

Focus of the investigation remains on the staffs of two Senators, Sen. Jay Rockefeller and Sen. Dick Durbin, as well as committee staff for the Senate Intelligence Committee and career intelligence staff detailed to U.S. Senate offices and committees. Last week, it was revealed that on February 17 Senator Rockefeller had sent a letter to the White House claiming that the Bush Administration had illegally leaked classified materials to Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward for a book project he was working on with cooperation from the Bush White House.

A number of people of Capitol Hill and in the intelligence community interpreted the letter as an attempt by Rockefeller to play defense should it be revealed that his office or staff tied to him on the Intelligence Committee are somehow involved in the serious leak cases

Hence, this little bit-o- scramble.

topsecretk9

I take that back, it's not "very" off-topic

clarice

ts--I'd like to do a quick blog on that. Do I have your permission to do that?

clarice

TS? It's up on Lucianne now and hearing nothing I assume you don't mind. Do you?

topsecretk9

Clarice
Are you asking permission from me to blog my cuts-and-pastes? Of course, you silly. If it's that I put the 2 and 2 together - thanks for noticing my magnificence (kidding)--consider yourself blanket waivered to blog away my cuts-and-pastes without permission from here on out!

clarice

Molto grazie Signora.

clarice

The Spectator reference was to something we didn't notice, I think--On Jan 17 Rockefeller apparently asked for an investigation into the leak to Woodward..How lame is that? Doesn't that just underscore the lameness of the Libby investigation.
The other link you gave is to one dated today in which 18 House Dems asked for the appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate the very NSA and overseas prison leaks which the Spectator says are moving rapidly and on focus. (Yeah, goo d luck with that demand)

The scent of desperation and stale popcorn fills the air.
Been there. Done that. Flopped.

JM Hanes

Aw hell, I say let 'em appoint another Special Prosecutor. The Administration can refuse to say another word about NSA et al, pending the outcome of investigations, and castigate anyone else who does. While the SP spends the requisite years wandering in the wilderness, the guys who talk about moving fast, not 2 year probes, will have put Rockefeller & Durbin in the Slammer & Giuliani in the White House.

Great 2+2 tops!

clarice

I take it the January 17 letter would require a special prosecutor to investigate Fitz? No?

JM Hanes

Shoot yeah, why should they get all the Special Prosecutors?

topsecretk9

Clarice

I took investigation NSA as attempt to "investigate what's really important...not our Senator"

Criminalize the "program" so as to blunt the news of Dem. Senator the leaker -- which your right, been there - tried that (and have not many Dems punted after the hearings? Sybil party strikes again!)


My new official position on who Judy was protecting - Nick Kristof (Fitz not concerned if Judy's "other source" was Team "whistleblowers" mouth piece)

Judy's note-taking when discussing with Libby reflect she knew "Wilson's" identity prior (Libby referred to "some clandestine guy" she wrote that then shifted her note reference to "wilson") and that Fitz saw the notes and didn't press means he knew and didn't care.

not that it matters, though

clarice

That may be a soung supposition. Don't forget though that she coauthored a book with Mylroie on Biochem warfare and had lots of sources in that very area, too, and I think it likely there might be dozens of intersecting pathways.

topsecretk9

Clarice
Yes, your right...lots of candidates, but I just have a gut that Kristof factored big. Especially since, as TM points out, he knew her...just didn't know she was a heck of a shot

topsecretk9

your = you're

clarice

After midnight--forget it--


_______I think Kristof was not chummy with her then..but she might still have had freinds at the NYT's who clued her in..

clarice

frIEnds

topsecretk9

claiming that the Bush Administration had illegally leaked classified materials materials to Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward for a book project he was working on with cooperation from the Bush White House.

BTW, what a doorknob. Did he have his staff pull a panic highlighting of a 2 year old book? Didn't Woodward's book have to be vetted before it was ready for print? Also for laughs, remember Wilson called on th WAPO to investigate Woodward? We see where that went.

topsecretk9

I think Kristof was not chummy with her then..but she might still have had friends at the NYT's who clued her in..

Exactly possible, as this little anecdote of NYT's gossip spreading amongst the staff that aren't all that aquatinted demonstrates.

(warning gratuitous journo arrogance and misconduct alert)

JM Hanes

I still feel like Kristof's hard to get a handle on.

One thing does seem obvious to me though. So I'm a reporter: An ex-Ambassador in the private sector shows up claiming that the CIA sent him on a mission to Niger that nobody ever heard about and saying he knows the WH lied. Do I just print the story or do I check it out? How many calls it takes to nail it down depends, of course, on who I know.

clarice

Heh. Niters--It's practically daylight here.

JM Hanes

G'night G'dess

topsecretk9

JM

Aj figured this out

Kristof wrote:

"I'm told by a person involved in the Niger caper that more than a year ago the vice president's office asked for an investigation of the uranium deal, so a former U.S. ambassador to Africa was dispatched to Niger. In February 2002, according to someone present at the meetings, that envoy reported to the C.I.A. and State Department that the information was unequivocally wrong and that the documents had been forged."

A year after this is printed, we learn the "meeting" was not routine but at the Wilson's home with only 4 people present, Wilson 2 Debriefers and the Drink Refresher.

I guess it could be Wilson vouching for himself, but it is hard to believe that Kristof would fly by the seat of his pants on this and just go with it without some assurances or a confirmed comfort level to print.

Since it's a year later we learn of the unconventional and thinly attended meeting (an notice not STATE) I don't think it's going out on a limb to conclude it wasn't 1 of 2 de-briefers and that the meeting venue and slight attendance wasn't on the tell Kristof priority list.

Kate

Notice that the Democrats want a Special Counsel to investigate Administration wrongdoing on the NSA wiretap story.

I wonder if the 18 Democrats include the idiot McDermott who was quoted in a Scottish newspaper on the secret details of Bush's bike accident last spring...I kid you not. He managed to tie in the bike accident with the NSA wiretaps story.

The Democrats must have been very pleased with Fitzgerald's investigation into a non-crime.

I suspect the answer from the Administration will be, um, no.

Sue

that envoy reported to the C.I.A. and State Department that the information was unequivocally wrong and that the documents had been forged

Isn't this the part that Kristoff now claims wasn't said? That Joe absolutely told him he hadn't actually seen the documents? Unequivocal is a powerful word from someone who now claims the person didn't say he saw anything. This source is Wilson. The question is, did Kristoff double source it?

maryrose

I think Kristof just went with because he was also under the spell of Wilson and felt he could do no wrong in this area. He is of course a former ambassador{she said sardonically}.

kim

Not even former. Ambassador still, and hangable still.
=================================================

Gary Maxwell

Want to play a fun little game. Lets paly name the 18 Dem signed on the letter. I swear I have not looked it up so no fair doing that.

someone already guess McDermott ( good high odds bet I think ). Lets put up the other "concerned" 17.

Sheila Jackson Lee. Cynthia McKinney. Maxine Waters. Pete Stark.

I could generate a lot more but my biggest problem would be holding it to 18. I cant think of many more far lefties than that.

kim

Hey, I'd lay Casey Sheehan's body on his doorstep, and set up camp, and wail until the sun stopped setting in the Pacific.
==============================================

clarice

http://americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=4536 *Thanks to ts)

clarice

Gary--John Conyers, Charlie Rangel,Dennis Kucinich

topsecretk9

Niger caper that more than a year ago the vice president's office asked for an investigation of the uranium deal,

Sue,

Also - Cheney asked for an "investigation". Well, I guess "What do you know about this" means "asked for and investigation" and the wordsmithing is very close to "behest" and well so it's no surprise everyone takes this as Cheney booked the flight, but I'm sure when Cheney and staff asked "What up here" they assumed the CIA could be able to answer without having to orchestrate a 6 day tea sipper.

kim

Hey, I think Gephart-Kucinich might have been a winning ticket in '04.
==============================================

Cecil Turner

I haven't seen anything to indicate that Pincus knew about Plame before he was told on 7/12/03.

Reread his 7/6/03 article. Ask yourself why a guy with Pincus's contacts would accept the word of a former ambassador so uncritically (especially as Wilson admits how little of his story he actually witnessed).

You're kidding, right?

Nope. I've done a lot of investigations (mishaps mostly, which is admittedly a bit different). There, the relevance test is to pretend a particular incident never happened, and see if it changes the result. If not, it's not a causal factor. Libby's involvement appears to fail that test. AFAICT, if Libby keeled over from a heart attack the first time he heard the name "Plame," Novak's story would have been published right on schedule. (And he apparently doesn't even get to know the name of the actual leaker.) If we're going to pretend this case is dimly related to national security or good governance, it seems to me we ought to look at the actual leak.

Cecil Turner

In February 2002, according to someone present at the meetings . . .

The meeting in the Wilson's home was on March 6th. Either they're talking about the earlier (Feb 19) meeting where the decision to dispatch Wilson was taken, or they're wrong. Either way, wouldn't hang my hat on this one.

Well, I guess "What do you know about this" means "asked for and investigation" . . .

It's even shakier than that. According to the SSCI, the DIA published a report on February 12th "titled Niamey signed an agreement to sell 500 tons ofuranium a year to Baghdad." Then:

After reading the DIA report, the Vice President asked his morning briefer for the CIA’s analysis of the issue.
CPD claimed they "discussed ways to obtain additional information":
in response to questions from the Vice President’s Office and the -Departments of State and Defense
After discussing it a bit, apparently they decided to contact Mr Wilson:
The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassador’s wife “offered up his name” and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12,2002, from the former ambassador’s wife says . . .
So apparently the DIA report was briefed to the Veep on the morning of the same day it was published, his request got to CPD, was discussed, and Plame suggested his name in a memo, all on the same day. Coulda happened, but dang, that's quick work. Alternate explanation: the State and Defense inquiries provided the actual impetus, the VP's question was tacked on.

PWT

The e-mails contain nothing but nude screen-shots of Jeff Gannon, why the secrecy?

pollyusa

Cecil,

You're kidding, right?

Well I was half kidding. I swear I will be asking on my deathbed if someone doesn't spill the beans.

If not, it's not a causal factor.

Let's try it this way. Novak keels over from the heart attack. Cooper publishes with Libby as his second source and Libby is back in the game.



On Pincus, he's got the best intelligence sources in the business, you can bet he checked around. that wouldn't necessarily turn up Plame.

Cecil Turner

Cooper publishes with Libby as his second source and Libby is back in the game.

In that scenario, Libby would be in the game. In this one, he doesn't appear to be.

On Pincus, he's got the best intelligence sources in the business, you can bet he checked around. that wouldn't necessarily turn up Plame.

If he based that story only on the trip of one ex-ambassador (who couldn't possibly know of internal CIA report routing, only visited one of the countries in question, never saw the documents, and produced only a verbal negative report) then he's a fool. I don't think he's a fool. If he knew of Plame's employment and specialty, it all makes sense. Speculation, but hardly farfetched.

cathyf
So apparently the DIA report was briefed to the Veep on the morning of the same day it was published, his request got to CPD, was discussed, and Plame suggested his name in a memo, all on the same day. Coulda happened, but dang, that's quick work. Alternate explanation: the State and Defense inquiries provided the actual impetus, the VP's question was tacked on.
Wow, Cecil, there's a detail I missed. The whole "behesting" thing goes from narcissistic exaggeration to baldfaced lie...

cathy :-)

Gary Maxwell

Having worked for a few years of my career in two different State agencies, I can tell you that most government agencies can not get out of their own way in a week's time. Nothing is done without meetings followed by memos with multiple levels of signatures and perhaps another meeting or two as the cherry on top.

What happens in a day? Well you can order lunch.

clarice

Are you suggesting that the rats in the agency were just waiting and all prepared to move on this Mission and simply looking for any pretext? If so, the facts seem to support that speculation, don't they?

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Wilson/Plame