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March 20, 2006

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Sue

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/03/byron_york_on_t_1.html#comment-15225969>Jeff

You are trying so hard to make Pincus' 2nd version fit his 1st version and all of it fit your version. If Pincus actually talked to the person who authorized Wilson's trip, what better way to find out if Wilson had concluded the documents were forgeries. Or did the person who authorized Wilson's trip play along with the game? Because, I agree with you, Pincus is not an idiot. He was either willingly used or a whole lot of sources were feeding him a line of, how to say nicely, bulldookey.

Pincus 1st article is Wilson debunked the documents and the claim and Cheney ignored it. Bush/Cheney took us to war on forged documents and Wilson can prove it. Without that, Wilson's story is a non-story. Wilson was one of 3 people who checked the Niger claim. And ONLY Wilson is doing the trifecta, NYTs, WaPo and MTP.

nittypig

I suspect that the truth is somewhere in between - Joe led the reporters down the garden path and let them draw whatever conclusions they might without actually lying to them.

For example Joe says "I know that the document is a forgery because the names and dates on the documents were wrong". Joe knows this because the IAEA report has already pointed this out. Reporters conclude that Joe knew this in 2002 and that he had seen the documents. Joe has been misquoted.

Or Joe says "Cheney asked questions about the Niger reports, so I was sent to Niger". In reality low level mucky-mucks at CIA (Val or not) made this decision, certainly independently of OVP, and in all likelihood independent of top CIA management. Reporters conclude Cheney sent Joe to Niger. Again Joe gets misquoted.

If you read anything that Joe's written about this he chooses his words carefully to imply something he cannot support.

And in Pincus' defense I would hope that everyone could agree that he comes out of l'affaire smelling much better then Kristof. Regardless of how you think Pincus has handled himslef Kristof was mucyh worse.

Sue

It isn't Pincus I'm worried about. It is Jeff. ::grin::

clarice

If you look at the text of Wilson's appearance before EPIC with Ray McGovern, Ray (in the Q and A) period makes reference to the forgeries without fully fleshing out the claim IIRC. ) For those of us who think the Wilson waltz with the press was not a solo dance but one in which he wasaccompanied by some of the VIPS leaders, it is possible that they expanded on what he'd said knowing it made the story sensational--If my suspicion is right it would go some way to explain why Kristof never backed off the story and why Pincus tried hard not to even after the SSCI report:They couldn't do so without admitting that some of the details of the Mission were supplied by interested anti-Administration partisans with no first hand knowledge of it.

Patton

Jeff silliness:
"""And notes that the CIA, the very agency that sent Wilson, contradicts the SSCI on who sent him. """"

This is silly, Sue some Manager sent Wilson (ie. making the final decision and signing the paperwork),, but that isn't the point, the point is he never would have been
'sent' had his wife not worked there, suggested he go, write a memo to that effect, etc.

Both statements can be semi-true.

The Manager made the final decision, but he never would have made that decision, but for the wife being there and pushing it.

It is just what makes Wislon look better..The Wifey got him sent, or he was selected due to his excellent background.

But if Pincus had written in his original article that:
1. Wilson was sent because his wife works there, and
2. Wilson never talked to any current Niger officials, and
3. Wilson never saw the documents of which he speaks and
4. Wilson confirmed that Iraq had sent a trade delegation in 1999 and a former Niger official concluded they were interested in Yellowcake, and
5. none of Wilsons information every went to the VP....

then you'd have a much different story.

Wilson could have done just as much with a phone call to the former official he had sweet tea with.

maryrose

JeFF:
I can't wait to hear the whole truth and nothing but the truth from Pincus and Wilson. At that time I believe you will be ordering crow pie. There is a reason we keep making the same arguments- they are most likely what actually went down. Your obsession with the "goodness" of Joe is disheartening. He's a lying twit.

Patton

Jeff, From Wilsons own book regarding the February 19th meeting:

""It would have been of keen interest to me to know who might have signed the contract on behalf of the Niger government, but no information was provided on this either.""""

owl

But if Pincus had written in his original article that:
1. Wilson was sent because his wife works there, and
2. Wilson never talked to any current Niger officials, and
3. Wilson never saw the documents of which he speaks and
4. Wilson confirmed that Iraq had sent a trade delegation in 1999 and a former Niger official concluded they were interested in Yellowcake, and
5. none of Wilsons information every went to the VP....

then you'd have a much different story.

Bingo. And don't you think that's a tad too many for this Wilson Waltz just being danced by plain ole honest reporters, just doing their jobs?

kim

Dwilkers, re your 3/20 8:24 AM comment. It also bothers me that Armitage is not a person that Bush would move heaven and earth to protect, and he seems to be doing so. That is one of the main reasons I persist with Tenet.
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Wilson/Plame