Memeorandum


Powered by TypePad

« Ex-Justice Lawyer On NSA | Main | Investigating Barry Bonds »

March 10, 2006

Comments

Paul Zrimsek
U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton rejected CIA warnings that the nation's security would be imperiled if the presidential-level documents were disclosed to
anyone but a New York Times reporter.
larwyn

Dana Bash going for the "Libby is a hypocrite".

She said (paraphrase)after years are protecting Executive Priviledge, he does not care about it when his freedom is on the line.

topsecretk9

he said (paraphrase)after years are protecting Executive Priviledge, he does not care about it when his freedom is on the line.

WA, WA. What's he supposed to do, go to jail to protect the PDB's?

Dana, have no fear ma dear, Dubya will help you out.

BurbankErnie

Um, wasn't he involved with the daily breifings on the PDB's? Daily?
Why is this even an issue?
He is (as I understand it) requesting them for memory recollection. Sounds OK to me.
Exactly why is this case still a case?
Remarkably consistent with the state of the Country I guess. Can't remember this much disarray and focus on the mundane.
B. D. S. plain and simple.

clarice

Don't forget Fitz set up the phony "graymail" meme and Corn ran with it to the far corners of the leftosphere...It's so un-fa-ir to provide them to a man who couldn't plea the fifth, and was subjected to this for no reason, there being no applicable statute that was vioated?

Javani

"A ruling on two remaining outstanding issues - any CIA damage assessment of the leak, and Ms. Plame's employment status - will be deferred pending further consideration."

That's all that's outstanding? Bob N. skates.

"Corn ran with it"

Corn's been running a lot of things from the beginning. Now it's important to keep his minions focused on the minutiae of the Libby case and off the main story - who leaked to Bob and why and the questin that logically follows: What was the origin of the hysteria? Could it have been the Corn article? It was, but arguably Wilson's auto-crucifiction would have found another media outlet. Unless, the big story is...Wilson's attitude did not originate inside himself but was stoked by Corn's imaginings!


topsecretk9

Clarice
I have no idea how far out this is, but if the judge agrees the PDB's are fair game, then it would seem to me that a simple little damage assessment and status sheet would be easy to compile too, no?

topsecretk9

I guess I should have "read the whole thing".

TM

Re the assessment and her status - the opinion notes that inculpatory and exculpatory evidence is important, s othe defense can avoi d pitfalls and assess their intended defense.

I think they get the status and assessment. That said, I would have bet they got the name of the Secret Source.

clarice

I don't see how the judge can say Libby cannot get the evidence of "classified" status and "damage" and yet allow Fitz to raise these issues at trial. No docs no claims.

Other Tom

My chest is swollen with gloating joy. Concerning the damage assessment, a Solomonic ruling would deny him that request while at the same time ordering the prosecutor to make no claim in the presence of the jury that and damage occurred. We shall see. Merry Fitzmas.

Robert Van Winkle

"Judge Says Libby Can See Bush Briefings

By TONI LOCY Associated Press Writer
© 2006 The Associated Press "

Didn't this AP writer start out as a rapper? You know...

"So I took her to my crib, and everything went well as planned...But when she got undressed, it was a big old mess, Sheena was a man!!! :O

So I threw him out, I don't fool around with no Oscar Meyer wiener...You must be sure that the girl is pure for the Funky Cold Medina!

Break it down!!!"

Gary Maxwell

So you are Fitz. You look the jury in the eye. And then like something out of Kafka The Trial youtell them this is about something bad, very bad. I cant tell you what but it is serious.

Now you are even a below average intelligence mope sitting there cuz you could not think of a good excuse to get yourself excused. What in the world are you thinking at this point.

Sue

Gary,

I can't see how Fitz will even be able to put on a trial if they aren't allowed to talk about what began the investigation. The jury will assume she is covert. Just as the jury assumes a doctor has medical malpractice insurance, even though you aren't allowed to say the word insurance during the trial.

Gary Maxwell

What kind of question was that? If the book comes out I think the mope in the back of the jury room will be quoted close to that. "Problems Will Robinson Danger Danger Will Robinson." The warnings never kept the space family from stepping further into it, but surely in reality this will not happen, right?

clarice

Fitz can make the argument that his discovery request compels..Ladies and gentlemen of the jury this case is about whether or not Libby lied when he said Russert told him some bafflegab and whether he lied when he told Cooper some bafflegab and whether that obstructed our investigation into something or the other.

Specter

What happened to AL?

clarice

Well, I hope he peeks in. Cecil wsa fairer to him than I was, though I must say I am easily provoked into getting my dander up when someone makes what appear to be unsubstantiated arguments and then can't show any basis for them.
Cecil, hoever, is a fair mand and a scholar.

clarice

Cecil, however, is a fair man and a scholar..

Specter

What would we do without AL, Jeff, and all the other J's?

MayBee

larwyn- someone needs to feed Dana Bash.

Charlie (Colorado)

OT, he's gonna have one hell of a time trying a case for perjury without having some basis for there to have been an underlying crime. It's not perjury unless its material to some crime.

MTT

Wow.

L'Affaire Plame is no longer absurd, it has become down right stupid.

I mean really, try to follow the narrative arc here, you can't.

From what comes the investigation?

From whence comes the investigator/prosecutor?

What exactly is/are the crime(s) alleged?

How will the prosecutor make his case?

What sources of information will the prosecutor use? And...these same sources are suggested to be off-limits to the accused?

And this is supposed to make sense?

?

??

The incredible thing to me remains the energy behind which the enemies (and I use this term advisedly) of the POTUS used to push for this investigation/prosecution, and now how astonishingly silent they have all become when it comes to the issue of national security and leaks of classified information.

Funny, this.

maryrose

OT
Specter:
We were asking Maybee about Japan and I wondered do you like the west coast or the east coast better?

maryrose

MIT;
Very funny this- I don't get it. I just don't see how this case goes forward.

MTT

One more thing.

Although admittedly driven to rants here (and elsewhere) the issue remains for me the lack of fundamental fairness when it comes to the treatment of this President by the press, his politcal opponents, and a large percentage of the American public.

L'Affaire Plame is emblematic of the folly of the President's enemies and to the levels to which they will sink to harm him, a sitting war time President no less.

It should be disturbing to all fair-minded individuals, but it is sadly not.

Sigh.

Sue

"It is inconceivable that the defendant's memory of matters of significance to him have totally vanished," Walton wrote.

That is kind of an odd thing to say. Is he making Libby's case that Plame was insignificant to Libby and he forgot?

clarice

He's saying, I think, summary reports should be enough to serve as an aide memoire especially if he is given the CIA's notes on the questions he asked re each briefing and notes indicating his action assignements.

maryrose

I agree MIT. It seems dems have adult ADD when it comes to supporting the war on terror. It's going on too long for them now so they are cranky and out of sorts. Thety take their frustration out on President Bush. Everyone should be behind him 100% but sadly that isn't so. Al Queda is patient; I think they want to try and wait us out because they know how impatient some Americans can be.

Specter

maryrose,

hard question. I grew up in the midwest and east and was transplanted to the west for many years. In San Diego there was a ton to do - there was always something from the beach, to the zoo, to the comdey club, etc. But we really missed the season change in the east. I now live in a small New England town and while content - it is a real drive to do anything "big-cityish". If I had to choose though I'd probably go back to Pittsburgh - where my heart is.

clarice

Where's SOylent Green? Rick? C'mon-It's SHOWTIME.

larwyn

I put my FNL on "Libby, the CIA and
the PDB'S".

It is lonely.

clarice

Terrible--Yours was very good but I don't feeel I can post until Soylent does ..It's well..a tradition..

larwyn

Soylent is so good - it takes much courage to follow.

Have we heard from Soylent today?

clarice

No, Larwyn, I don't think so. Early in the am yesterday he mentioned showing up for FNL..*sigh*

Jeff

Reading Walton's memorandum opinion, my sense is this is a big victory for Libby from the perspective of derailing the trial, though the judge appears committed to not letting that happen, but not much of a victory from the perspective of actually going to trial. And footnote 25 looks pretty significant to me. As I read it, Walton is saying his determination as to allegations of greymail has yet to be made, since it belongs in the context of a later proceeding. He also seems to suggest that even where the executive branch refuses to give up documents, the judge is prepared to find a way to go forward. Walton also appears to be setting up a justification for proceeding with an instruction to the jury that Libby was really busy with really important stuff, some of which can't be revealed in any detail because of national security concerns, regardless of what the defense is actually able to obtain.

Garry

This scandal has died a 1000 deaths, but keeps coming back. Latest jolt of the defibrilator:
Plame was working w/NOC's on Iran WMD intel?

Soylent Red

Hi folks. Sorry I'm late. Busy with my life of sould stealing toil.

Where's FNL at?

Lew Clark

Shiekh Mohammed Al Maktoum, Prime Minister UAE (aka SOylent Green) is kind of pissed at America right now won't be posting on any blogs until he calms down. So we may have to do a few FNL's without him.

Lew Clark

Opps,
He calmed down quicker than I thought!

clarice

We've been waiting for you, Soylent.

Garry, how hysterical is Rawstory?

[quote]Intelligence sources familiar with the damage assessment say that what is called a "counter intelligence assessment to agency operations" was conducted on the orders of the CIA's then-Deputy Director of the Directorate of Operations, James Pavitt.

Former CIA counterintelligence officer Larry Johnson believes that such an assessment would have had to be done for the CIA to have referred the case to the Justice Department.[/quote]

.The VIPs ride again..LOL

Lew Clark

It's amazing how a little truth can be twisted into their mold. (And btw, as soon as Larry Johnson was mentioned, proof of falsehood was verified).
We all know Wilson/Plame was an analyst at Langley working on WMD's. Did she analyze Iranian intel. I would sure hope so. The WMD picture in the ME is kind of incomplete without that. Did the name AQ Khan ever come up during that analysis? Kind of hard to analyze nuclear proliferation without covering the Khan angle.
But, did the mad mullah's in Iran first become aware we were looking at their nuclear weapons program when Bob Novak uttered the magic name Valerie Plame? Did Khan first learn he might be in trouble at the same time? Only in Bizarro World where these reporters live. Over here in the real world, the story is good for a chuckle. Nothing more.

clarice

Soylent! Post or I'm going to bed.

topsecretk9

The Rare Story

1. Larisa Alexandrovna
Published: February 13, 2006

2. Plame declined to comment through her husband, Joseph Wilson.

Her husband on the other-hand would not shut-up.

3. Johnson said. "That was done. The results were written up but not in a form for submission to anyone outside of CIA."

Now, how come Larry knows about this, but Fitz doesn't?

And um, shouldn't there be a referral to the DOJ for this story...Larry Johnson knows every detail of every single moment of Plames CLASSIFIED, TOP-SECRET career, down to the contents of the CIA assessment?

Jesus, the mans a dang chimney.

Soylent Red

The moon shimmered off the inky waters of the Rio di Palazzo as the Bald Man stepped from the gondola onto the shadowing quay. He was to meet his man Scorpio at this spot, but of course in Italy, puctuality was optional. Venice might be a lover's paradise, but it was a living hell for conspirators.

As he ascended the low stairway into the building, the Bald Man silently congratulated himself on planting the scandal with the local paparazzi. The Italian press was even more left-leaning than their American counterparts (was that possible?) so the plant had been fantastically simple. Berlusconi had carried a lot of water for The Boss, and took orders well. It was the least I could do, the Bald Man thought. The scandal story would be blown into a full blown crisis, and Berlusconi would be duly exonerated when the documents proved to be forged.

If they only knew all of the things he was guilty of, the Bald Man reflected merrily.

As he reached the bridge level and stepped deftly around a utility sign commanding "Passi Prego", the Bald Man noticed the glow of a cigarette in the blackness near the prison side. The Greek had made it.

The Bald Man remembered when Scorpio had first been commissioned to do his work. Well, commissioned wasn't really the right word. After searching for the illegitimate half-brother of a certain blogger named after an Aegean island, the Bald Man had spirited him away for several months of intense...instruction. NSA had several interesting techniques that had worked quite nicely for his purposes.

Once the programming had been completed, it was only a question of making the correct connections. Kos had wholeheartedly taken the political counsel of his long lost brother, and had even agreed to keep his existence to himself. Of course Scorpio was in fear of the "neo-fascists" emerging here and there around the Mediterranean.

The Bald Man extended a hand and as Scorpio reached to accept it the Bald Man noticed the stylized woodscrew tattoo on his right forearm. Only a fellow member would know the meaning behind the secret sign of The Authoritarian Cult he thought as he executed the secret handshake.

"Buona sera. Sono felice voi potrei farlo." the Bald Man whispered in perfect Italian, with a slight Sicilian accent. He had picked up the language during the flight into Rome and was secretly quite pleased with his diction.

"Of course. Does this concern Sen. Clinton?" Scorpio asked.

"You've been doing good work so far Scorpio. Quite excellent in fact. Let's not spoil that with too much independent thought," the Bald Man said. He hated having to yank Scorpio back into line, but it had to be done. These swarthy types were so difficult sometimes.

"Forgive me," Scorpio said, looking away and squashing the cigarette butt under his heel. Like a good European, he had already lit another by the time the Bald Man spoke.

"Scorpio, from time to time opportunity knocks on your door. When it does, you'd better answer. Now is such a time." The Bald Man paced to the edge of the bridge and looked out over the Venetian night.

"Our enemies smell blood in the water, and are anxious to regain a bit of their former glory. Hell, your brother is claiming victory in defeat, thanks in part to you. Now is the time to act decisively for the future," the Bald Man said.

"Who will be our target? The Shrew? The Frenchman?" Scorpio was obviously excited and anxious to do his part, so the Bald Man paused for dramatic affect before setting the hook.

"No Scorpio. Those idiots are well in hand. We do have another problem emerging, from a most unexpected locale. Actually it is a problem re-emerging, to put it more accurately."

"Yes, of course," Scorpio whispered excitely through a fog of cigarette smoke. "We must despatch the Weatherman once and for all!"

The Bald Man chuckled. Scorpio was an apt apprentice, but he couldn't see the big picture. The time was late, and the Bald Man had grown tired of baiting Scorpio.

"We'll need you to contact your brother immediately. The Principles will transmit instructions from the Houston office on what you need to do," the Bald Man said as he headed for the stairs leading to the street exit. "A certain Senator Daschle is considering returning to the public trough, and as I said, when opportunity knocks..."

With that the Bald Man disappeared into the night, leaving Scorpio smiling in the glow of his cigarette.

topsecretk9

FWIW
JimE had the best name for Raw Story. "Half-Baked"

Soylent Red

It's not my best. My brain is shot.

clarice

Mosca was waiting at the other end of the Ponti di Sospire in her slightly bedraggled festa costume. A bead dangled precariously at the end of her mask where she'd bumped into the wall as she'd rushed to the meeting spot. And her fancy satin sandals were scuffed. But she had good news.
"We succeeded with the shrew. It was molto facile. A little hint in an AP/Ipsos poll (cheap they are ) that the public still thought she was weak on defense. We had Eller whisper to Schumer that it the P&O deal were scotched they's make a bundle on the port deal and we'd make sure he'd get his cut. From him to the shrew to the Senate."

"And you made sure the sheikh paid Bill well?"

"Very and we cut Albright and Cohen into the deal, too."
"So she picked up nothing then--just reminded eceryone what a fake grifter she is?"the Bald Man asked. He was terribly fond of the tiny gadfly.
"Exactly. Look I'm hungry. Around the corner is the best risotto al mare. It's on me."
Small but she sure could eat.

clarice

You're worst is still great, Soylent..

clarice

YOUR..Gee,I'm tired.

kim

Deep in the bowels of the huge dockside warehouse, the night security detail was engrossed in their cardgame, the Contenduh whining in the background on the DVD player. Suddenly they froze, the same thought insisting on prominence in all their minds. The cards dropped from listless hands, eyes unfocussed and dilated, chips fell where they would. First a vision of Abe Lincoln sitting on stacked pile of fence rails with an obscure figure imprisoned within. Then a dervish with a kris with 'Little Boy' engraved on on side of the peculiar blade and 'Big Prick' on the other, came dimly into view in a....in a container. They all knew what to do. Without a word they abandoned the game and hurried off to their tasks.

B to H: We really should do lunch more often. Have your girl call mine.
======================================

Jeff

And Fitzgerald's "graymail" charge notwithstanding, the judge has agreed that summaries of some of these documents are relevant to the defense.

That makes it sound like the judge decided the relevance of the documents overrode Fitzgerald's claims about greymail, which is not right. Footnote 25 of Walton's memorandum opinion makes clear that the decision on materiality (which he has just made) is previous to the CIPA proceedings that is the proper place for making a determination with regard to such things as allegations of greymail. As I said, that footnote previews several ways Walton will be able to make the trial go ahead even if there are problems with the production of the topical summaries of the PDBs. In this regard, the news reports seem to have misunderstood the point of Walton's observation that it is unlikely he would allow anything other than the general topic area of the documents to be introduced at triual and shown to the jury, which he is prepared to instruct that because of national security concerns the defense can't go into the details and that it is undisputed -- as Fitzgerald has agreed -- that Libby was very busy during his work day, worked long hours, and worked on highly sensitive national security and intelligence matters. The point of that observation seems to be that since the jury is unlikely to get access to the documents themselves, or even the summaries, in the end it won't really be a problem for proceeding if the government refuses to turn them over.

Jeff

On the two remaining things Walton has to decide, I'm not going to make a prediction on the damage assessment one, but on Plame's status, my prediction is that Walton will rule that, while the prosecutor would have an obligation to hand over any documents indicating Plame was not classified (which the prosecutor says it does not have, and that they don't exist), the prosecutor has to give Libby something indicating Plame was classified, but not all such documents, since, as Fitzgerald has pointed out in seizing on the way the defense framed their request, that would potentially implicate every document in any way involving Plame during the entire time period covered.

Patt

Just what proceedings have been delayed? The trail isn't until next year.

And what is Fitz talking about regarding Libby and releasing classified information???

Isn't it UGO who released classified, according to the judge and Fitz and the same guy they say shouldn't have his reputation sullied??


I like how Fitz keeps suggesting Libby
broke the law on disclosing classified information and then turns around and claims the case has ZERO, NOTHING, NADA to do with classified data.

larwyn

Put on wrong thread too early last night. Reposting, so I only have to save one thread for posterity.

FNL:
Writing in the secret double encrypted program that protected his personal
journal, he shook his head. Oh, he was being called much worse then "turd
blossom" by many, but not by the "boss". The "delegator" gave him the goals, the outcome he wanted. It was understood that HE didn't want to know the hows that would be used to:

1) Stop Islam from gaining a foothold in America as it had in Europe without appearing to be discriminating against a religion.

2) Show the Arab/Muslim world that our tolerance does include toleration of intolerance.

3) Prove to the American people that this GWOT is a "long war" against a very serious and determined enemy worming its way into our society and using our freedoms and laws against us.

4) Destroy the multiculturalism doctrine of moral relativity

5) Force the Judeo-Christian community to stand up against all the forms of secularism.

Almost finished, he reached first for a pile of clippings and blog entries on the drop in viewers for Sunday's Academy Awards with a synopsis of the nominated films plot lines. The actual films were already downloaded into"Operation Clooney" "Tell Them How To Vote" subfile. He hummed "It's Hard Out Here For A Pimp" as he fed these into the scanner.

Next, the clipping from yesterday's WaPo sat at hand, it would just about complete tonight's entry.

As the war in Iraq grinds into its fourth year, a growing proportion of Americans are expressing unfavorable views of Islam, and a majority now say that Muslims are disproportionately prone to violence, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

The poll found that nearly half of Americans — 46 percent — have a negative view of Islam, seven percentage points higher than in the tense months after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, when Muslims were often targeted for violence.

Finally, the note from
Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al- Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai:
"Never have I felt that my country is more secure from the mad Iranians and their Islamist dogs. We who want modernity will be greatly helped when our elite read that the American people have pulled the wool from their eyes.""

The PS would be a great title for a historian allowed access to this journal in 2058. It read:

"T.B. You're not as dumb as you look! "

clarice

I think the opinion is very interesting and hope to spend more time studying it after printing it out as I find it hard to read things in pdf form.
But I think he is indicating Libby has a right to see quite a bit to refresh his recollection of events. That the preoccupation explanation is not frivolous. That if the government does not provide what the judge has ordered he will make a statement to the jury which I should think would be harmful to the government's case. And ,as important, the Judge has indicated that Libby has a right to receive from the CIA notes which indicate which things he had questioned--i.e., contemporary recorded evidence as to where his attention was focused.

He has reserved judgement on the question of Fitz' obligation to provide all the evidence he has on Plame's status and harm to national security. I have already indicated that I do not think he will allow Fitz to play it both ways. If he doesn't produce this information, I do not think that he will be allowed to mention Plame's status or harm to security.

If I'm right, at a minimum the jury will hear from the Judge that Libby was involved in complex, demanding work involving issues of high import and that he's in the dock for bafflegab and low autism.
That is, assuming Fitz can survive the Motion to Dismiss already pending.

Gary Maxwell

Gosh do you think the government has a document that says I am not classified? I never have been. Is it not rediculous that the prosecutor turned this into trying to prove a negative.

Spring Break. see you in a few days.

maryrose

Soylent and Clarice -great posts last night and Larwyn I enjoyed yours too!
Specter: We've been discussing possible retirement places so your information re: west v. east is very helpful. I've always lived in the midwest but we vacation frequently in the New England area. I think that is where we might retire but still keep our Midwest home for our children. I was just in Pittsburgh this fall. What a great town! I can understand why it was probably so much fun for you growing up there. The Midwest is also a great place to raise kids.
Jeff: Sorry to be off-topic but I am responding to a post from last night. I admire your tenacity in looking for every shred of evidence you can find that this case is going to go forward and that something will happen to Libby or that ultimately he will be found guilty of SOMETHING even though he has done nothing. I see this case in flux right now. Any number of moves can derail it. Fitz is on constantly shifting and shaky ground. I'm interested to see how it will all play out.

Specter

OT - maryrose - retirement in New England if you like the snow. Maybe I could be a ski bum in Vermont?

Lew Clark

In Friz's view of national security and his sworn duty to protect "whistleblowers" he views the fact that Valerie was not a covert agent as the most important national secret in existence. He will fight with every thing he has to not let that secret out.

clarice

I just do not see how the judge can permit such a potentially damaging charge go before the jury in the absence of proof.

I also think the absence of proof on the issue is relevant to the Motion to Dismiss, showing the SP's overreaching.It also would suggest bad faith by the SP , in among other things, his representations to the Court in Miller,his pursuit of the matter in the absence of any basis to do so, and his comments in his press conference.

kim

C, those look like strong hints to Fitz to drop it.
===============================================

clarice

I don't know, Kim. I think the judge is saying he can tell shit from shinola and he's not Tatel.

kim

He certainly seems perceptive and balanced, but could he run an elevator?
=======================================

Rick Ballard

MJW's UGO analysis is up here. He really did an excellent job - be sure and double click the actual images to see exactly what was done.

Based upon the evidence at hand I know who for whom I would vote.

clarice

Great work !

Cecil Turner

The point of that observation seems to be that since the jury is unlikely to get access to the documents themselves, or even the summaries, in the end it won't really be a problem for proceeding if the government refuses to turn them over.

Reading that and the order, it certainly doesn't appear to be a show-stopper. (Though I wonder at the chances of appeal if the defense doesn't get a significant portion of what Walton ruled they were entitled to). In fact, when you factor in all the caveats, it looks to me a lot more like "Libby doesn't really need that stuff," and fishing for a stipulation from Fitz that he was busy (which is where I thought that one was going in the first place).

my prediction is that Walton will rule that . . . the prosecutor has to give Libby something indicating Plame was classified

If Fitz is going to continue to assert that as fact, he'd better. It still doesn't address the basic issue, however, which is to highlight the matters Libby was legitimately concerned with as compared to the relatively insignificant fact of Plame's CIA employment. Fitz has already waxed eloquent on the subject (presser):

In this case, it's a lot more serious than baseball. And the damage wasn't to one person. It wasn't just Valerie Wilson. It was done to all of us.
In fact, Wilson's employment is a minor side issue to the whole "behesting" thing, and not the focus of any of the conversations. And the best way to prove that is to hold both issues up and make a side-by-side comparison. Actual damage, and her status, is essential to the comparison, and it looks to me like Walton is not going to allow it in. If I were the defense, I'd be objecting . . . loudly and repeatedly.

And why June 7, and not May 6 as Libby had requested?

This goes to the same issue. If we separate the "outing" from the context, it makes it appear that's the only issue. That might be legitimate if the real goal of the discussions with reporters was to out Plame, instead of news management. It isn't if it was merely a supporting factoid . . . which is the only interpretation that makes sense.

clarice

Cecil, what about the point that the CIA has to give Libby the responses to his questions? Wouldn't that go a long way toward showing where his attention was focused?

JM Hanes

This is going to be great isn't it? The Prez prohibits circulation of PDB's, outraged Democrats defend Libby's right to a fair trial, Greenwald hints of ritual cannibalism on the right...

Cecil Turner

. . . Wouldn't that go a long way toward showing where his attention was focused?

Perhaps, but it seems to me the central point is to show where his attention wasn't focused (i.e., on Plame). His side of that contention is unprovable, and badly damaged by the testimony that he asked "what paperwork there would be at the CIA if an employee’s spouse undertook an overseas trip." The only effective defense I can see is to show that it was in fact unimportant.

clarice

I asked a similar question myself early on for the simple reason that it appeared to me that everything about the Wilson trip, including the fact that he was paid only expenses appeared designed to make it easy for the folks in Plame's shop to pull this off without detection . Certainly had he been paid for the mission, someone above her shop would have known he was being sent on the Mission and would have had to approve it.

Assigning him this way had another consequence, it made it much harder for Tenet to respond because it was truly hard to find out what Wilson was talking about, there being virtually no record to work with.And it increased the chances that this was a volley at the Administration from within the Agency.

clarice

Do you recall when he made that inquiry,Cecil? For it seems to me if it was because Tenet had said it was hard to find out what Wilson was talking about, that personnel had no record of such an assignment, it would certainly indicate that he wanted the truth out and was frustrated by Tenet's inability to do so in a meaningful timeframe.

clarice

A quick check indicates he asked that question on July 8.

clarice

From TM's timeline, the Wilson campaign had been underway for months by that time and Tenet still hadn't responded to it:

May 6, 2003: "Missing in Action: Truth", The New York Times, Nicholas Kristof: This column was the first to reveal the Feb. 2002 Niger trip; it doesn't mention Wilson, but we later learn (WaPo, Oct 12, 2003) he was a source. (See also Vanity Fair, Jan 17, 2004)

June 12, 2003: "CIA Did Not Share Doubt on Iraq Data", The Washington Post, Walter Pincus (or WaPo link): The Washington Post elaborates on Kristof's column, describes what happened with the CIA report; Wilson was also a source on this piece, which will get mentioned in the Senate Intelligence report.

June 13, 2003: "White House in Denial", Nick Kristof
Condoleezza Rice was asked on "Meet the Press" on Sunday about a column of mine from May 6 regarding President Bush's reliance on forged documents to claim that Iraq had sought uranium in Africa. That was not just a case of hyping intelligence, but of asserting something that had already been flatly discredited by an envoy investigating at the behest of the office of Vice President Dick Cheney.

Oooh, that didn't stand up to the final Senate report. My commentary.


July 6, 2003: Enough prequel! The article that started it all: Ambassador Wilson, "What I Didn't Find in Africa".

__

Over 2 months of "behesting". I'd have asked, too..

clarice

One would have thought that sometime after May 6 Tenet would have begun some inquiries. And yet even after the op ed when he openly revealed his identity, the CIA had apparently still been unable to come up with any refutation or explanation of who sent him to Africa and why and what he reported.

And the explanation may well be that the whole gig was set up as it was for that very reason.

Cecil Turner

. . . it would certainly indicate that he wanted the truth out and was frustrated . . .

It might also indicate he was trying to confirm a piece of information that he didn't know was accurate . . . which could mean he was truly ignorant of where he'd initially gotten it. An interesting facet of Fitz's timeline is that the Plame conversations are grouped into two clumps, one around the initial (June 9/11th?) briefing, and again about a month later (July 7-12). The only flier in the data is the purported discussion with Judith Miller on the 23rd of June . . . which I think is so weak as to be inconsequential. I'm still not entirely convinced Libby isn't telling the truth on that point, because otherwise, discussing it with other officials doesn't make a lot of sense. OTOH, if he did have a memory jog, it had to've been before the "weird" lunch with Ari Fleischer (on the 7th?).

clarice

As I recall July 6 was the date Libby was working with Tenet to clarify the 16 words issue.

On the following day, July 7, he linched with Ari and told him it wasn't widely known but Wilson was working with the CIA.

clarice

lUnched, that is

maryrose

Specter:
OT We love skiing and enjoy the snow. Right now it looks like Vermont, New Hampshire or Troy N.Y. We like to hike and canoe as well.
When you look at the timeline it looks like they weren't getting enough of a response initially so Joe had to bring out the big guns in his NYT editorial.Then Novak and Corn followed.

maryrose

If Fitz is forbidden to include Plame and the classified stuff and does so by mistake during the trial would that be grounds for a mistrial?

clarice

Depends. (That'll be $150)..Actually, it does. Sometimes the jury will be instructed to disregard it.

Cecil Turner

As I recall July 6 was the date Libby was working with Tenet to clarify the 16 words issue.

Could be the jogger, though it wouldn't do Libby much good if it was. In any event, it looks like Libby'd have to take the stand to make any of those cases work, and I think that'd be a major tactical error.

topsecretk9

I think the defense has laid some pretty good ground work for an all out admittance to--a yeah, maybe I got some things wrong...so? Absent any CIA status of classified it just becomes a so what.

You get a few reporters to allow that they may have too, show a side by side comparison of the really important heavy crap Libby was dealing way back when (even in the simplest redacted form), remind everyone that that really heavy heavy crap never stopped or stops (i.e. when he spoke to FBI) and it's pretty much a dead end.

I mean if Libby allows that he confused conversations or got some detail wrong, doesn't that pretty much take away intent? of everything? Especially with a jury that knows there is a UGO out there that spoke to Novak and isn't charged with anything?

I know I am silly, but I still think Fitz's only hope is keeping UGO a UGO to give the illusion of a classified/whistleblower misdeed.

clarice

Cecil, part of my problem is something we've talked about before..the assumption that our after the fact attention on something matches the participant's attention to it at the time.

It looks to me from the July 6 inquiry that Libby hadn't paid much attention to what he'd heard on the 9th of June.I have to think that on May 6 I'd be pressing Tenet to explain what this was all about, but I'm looking at it backwards with knowledge of what followed and undoubtedly giving it all more importance than the WH (or Rice) gave it at the time.

topsecretk9

Depends. (That'll be $150)..Actually, it does. Sometimes the jury will be instructed to disregard it.

I think if Fitz hadn't said what he said in his Presser and to Tatel vs. what the defense has forced him to declare --neither have or have sought...and by the way never stated in the indictment --that she was classified, he'd get off with a slap. Not now.

I'm telling you, Libby's team has done a pretty good job of backing Fitz in a corner on many fronts. He's damned if he does and damned if he don't.

larwyn

...I'm looking at it backwards with knowledge of what followed and undoubtedly giving it all more importance....Clarice

Most important, but the narcissists of the LSM and their stars, the Wilsons would never be psychologically able to handle that.

If a trial does actually begin - how would you screen the jurors?
WaPo & NYT subcribers immediately
challenged?

clarice

I'm inclined to agree with you, ts, that if the judge rules Fitz must hand over evidence of "classified" and harm or forego referring to it and he does, under all those circumstances, Fitz would not get off with a slap.

Then we have the problem of what we do if such assertions come out of the mouths of witnesses on cross...

topsecretk9

ing at it backwards with knowledge of what followed and undoubtedly giving it all more importance

the Wilson's would never be psychologically able to handle that.

BTW, this notion is all Wilson generated anyways.

Even though it was expected, the Defense statements to the Judge recently, that they would be calling Valerie and Joe was a little glossed over. I consider this to another "damned if I do, DIIDon't" moment for Fitz. Would he oppose their being called? Because you know, he thinks they are not central to the charges...another nail in the un-covert coffin.

Un-opposed, think of Joe on the stand against Baker Botts and CO.

clarice

If this goes to trial, the case will be something. Don't leave out Armitage. (Will the jury get aspirins before Miller is called to the stand? I know just reading her account gives me a headache.)

topsecretk9

If this goes to trial, the case will be something.

I'm just thinking it doesn't. Day by day it looks like Fitz either did the Prosecutor charge'em hubris and expect a plea or Fitz made a bad, in a bubble judgment call.

In both cases, Libby and Rove, there was an unknown. We forget about Rove, but think if Luskin didn't think to put V.Novak out there when he did? Fitz. would be sitting with 2 messes on his watch. People would really be wondering what the heck he did for 2 years.

clarice

What do you think Viveca told Luskin? I supposed she told him that Cooper had indicated he knew of Plame BEFORE he called Libby or Rove. I'd be interested in your take.

maryrose

When will the decision to call reporters be implemented. I'm interested in how hard MSNBC and NBC are going to fight the subpoenas. For once CBS isn't involved. What about TIME magazine and Cooper and V, Novak ; will their newspaper cave in again or fight?

teejay

"Internet blows CIA cover
It's easy to track America's covert operatives. All you need to know is how to navigate the Internet.

By John Crewdson
Tribune senior correspondent
Published March 11, 2006, 12:00 PM CST

WASHINGTON -- She is 52 years old, married, grew up in the Kansas City suburbs and now lives in Virginia, in a new three-bedroom house.

Anyone who can qualify for a subscription to one of the online services that compile public information also can learn that she is a CIA employee who, over the past decade, has been assigned to several American embassies in Europe.

The CIA asked the Tribune not to publish her name because she is a covert operative, and the newspaper agreed. But unbeknown to the CIA, her affiliation and those of hundreds of men and women like her have somehow become a matter of public record, thanks to the Internet.

When the Tribune searched a commercial online data service, the result was a virtual directory of more than 2,600 CIA employees, 50 internal agency telephone numbers and the locations of some two dozen secret CIA facilities around the United States.

Only recently has the CIA recognized that in the Internet age its traditional system of providing cover for clandestine employees working overseas is fraught with holes, a discovery that is said to have "horrified" CIA Director Porter Goss.

"Cover is a complex issue that is more complex in the Internet age," said the CIA's chief spokeswoman, Jennifer Dyck. "There are things that worked previously that no longer work. Director Goss is committed to modernizing the way the agency does cover in order to protect our officers who are doing dangerous work."

Dyck declined to detail the remedies "since we don't want the bad guys to know what we're fixing."

Several "front companies" set up to provide cover for CIA operatives and its small fleet of aircraft recently began disappearing from the Internet, following the Tribune's disclosures that some of the planes were used to transport suspected terrorists to countries where they claimed to have been tortured.

Although finding and repairing the vulnerabilities in the CIA's cover system was not a priority under Goss' predecessor, George Tenet, one senior U.S. official observed that "the Internet age didn't get here in 2004," the year Goss took over at the CIA.
(continued)"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-060311ciamain-story,1,123362.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

topsecretk9

Not sure if I said this right, but what Rove sort of shows in relation to Libby (--with Woodward popping out of the woodwork) is that Fitz either miscalculated or his investigation was very flawed/mismanaged/incompentant (you pick)

topsecretk9

Several "front companies" set up to provide cover for CIA operatives and its small fleet of aircraft recently began disappearing from the Internet, following the Tribune's disclosures that some of the planes were used to transport suspected terrorists to countries where they claimed to have been tortured.

This one (front Co.), was in the resumes story on the other thread. The 2nd. follow-up one on the lefty site. Starts with a D.

clarice

I understood what you meant, and I fully agree, but I think the general wisdom was that Rove averted being indicted by something Luskin produced to Fitz at the last moment. Shortly afterword Viveca (who we learned had some discussion with Luskin about chatter in the Newsweek offices) appeared as a witness before Fitz.
Was Luskin's representation about Viveca and what could she have said except that Cooper had foreknowledge?

clarice

Interesting article. The ex agent quoted on p. 2, Melvin Goodman, is a big VIPs player who was in the Soros funded anti-war film starring Beers and Wilson which was the entertainment at Kerry fundraisers.

topsecretk9

Clarice
Well, since Fitz only went for the "bone" and not the body, who knows. It's interesting he only went for the bone, now in hindsight...wonder if the "body" would have had an impact on Libby's case? hmmm...maybe the "body" protection is really Fitzy protection. (if so, that means good news for Rove)

Cecil Turner

I have to think that on May 6 I'd be pressing Tenet to explain what this was all about, but I'm looking at it backwards with knowledge of what followed . . .

I suspect at that point they ignored it (and thought Kristof had a nutcase source). After all, they knew they hadn't sent anyone to Niger to check out the documents, and certainly hadn't read a report debunking it afterward. As the story unfolded, they assembled evidence to show he was a liar.

. . . it looks like Fitz either did the Prosecutor charge'em hubris . . .

Similarly, Fitz knew he had a whistleblower being attacked by Administration officials. The above look like two prime examples of expectation bias to me, further obscuring the already muddled underlying story.

topsecretk9

Okay, my Spy-dar is up.

is a big VIPs player who was in the Soros funded anti-war film starring Beers and Wilson

This story, combined with those 2 resume stories on far left site...combined with Scary Larry's and Wilson's Iran attempts... hmmm.

Why are these "derailing-like" stories popping up? Remember that story that came out a day or two before "I" day that said Rove may be in the clear because Val was really on the DO side and not WMD (3 sneakies)?

Wonder if this is...Mr. and Mrs. Wilson would rather not testify?

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame