This Just In...

Over at EmptyWheel the latest Fitzgerald response to the Libby defense team is getting the full forensic treatment, and it is well done as usual.  Early indications are that Richard Armitage, the people's choice as the mystery source for Bobs Woodward and Novak, provides the best fit in the redacted document,  but keep a candle flickering for Don Rumsfeld as the Mystery Man.

Yes, I love this game.  Today. 

More later.

MORE:  Folks who believe that Fitzgerald has a lot more under investigation will thrill to this (ii):

2. The information and items responsive to Libby’s demands and which we are not producing generally consists oftestimony, information and items which: (i) reveal the identity of  REDACTED

ii) concern others subjects of the investigation and numerous witnesses who testified about their knowledge of the conduct ofthose subjects, often focusing on conversations after July 14, 2003, during which various persons referenced events of spring 2003 not relevant to defendant Libby;

The notion that conversations from the fall of 2003 (and later) are also a subject of investigation re-appears on p. 14:

The discovery provided in those two letters in subsiantial part moots the defendants’ motion, though granting Libby’s motion would trigger production ofmany items pertinent to the investigation of other subjects — and particularly their conduct in the fall of 2003 and later — because their conversations in some way reference back to the events of spring 2003, as described in detail at pages 2 to 12.

Well...yike.  If Fitzgerald is seriously probing some sort of cover-up, that might explain the silence of Bob Novak.  And there is surely *something* going on - on p. 2 Fitzgerald promises a detailed overview of the investigation on pages 2-12, all of which are redacted.  [NOTE - well, there was something going on at one time - maybe this is water under the bridge now.  Fitzgerald did say in a Miller-related filing that his investigation was substantially completed, except for the testimony of Cooper and Miller.]

So, is this all about the Karl Rove angle, with Matt Cooper and the missing Hadley email?  Or is there more, and might that "more" explain Novak's continued silence?

And what is Fitzgerald learning as his investigation continues, or is he hoping to out-wait Libby and strike a deal with him?

STILL MORE:  Apparently Fitzgerald has already given the defense the affidavits and/or testimony transcripts for Walter Pincus, Glenn Kessler, Tim Russert, Matt Cooper, and Judy Miller.  A redacted version of Bob Woodward's testimony (minus Armitage's name and the non-Libby related testimony) has also been handed over.  And some reporter's names have been redacted from this list - Andrea Mitchell has been mentioned in several of these filings, and is mentioned in this one, so let's put her in the mix.

UPDATE:  A helpful and irrefutable analysis here.

Comments

[topsecretk9]

Wow, he really is staking his claim on honest reporters. I am surprised by the Andrea Mitchell part (page 14)

--And while Libby cites Andrea Mitchell's account implying that she knew about Wilson's wife before July 14, there is a later statement by NBC that she did not---

I guess Ms. Greenspan's just gonna be pressed on that. Libby's lawyers only have to read the Imus transcript to know how that's gonna go.

[Patton]

Wouldn't NBC have a conflict with Micthell? Since they need to protect Russert.

[Patton]

This is pretty scary stuff:

Fitzgerald in paragraph 38 “and Mr. Libby is charged with telling Ms. Miller and Mr. Cooper.”

Is Fits NUTS? Libby has not been charged with anything of the sort.

[Other Tom]

It strikes me that his mentioning materials that "concern others [sic] subjects of the investigation" means only that they were subjects at the time the materials were created, not necessarily that they are still subjects. But some or all of them may well be--we just can't tell from this statement.

[clarice]

Whole lot of redacting going on..can't see too much in this except a significant attempt to protect UGO.

[Kate]

I remember from this comments on this blog that many individuals can be subjects. The key term is target. Maybe some legal poster can clarify the terms for me.

[topsecretk9]

Is Fits NUTS?

Patton, I wondered the same thing about that.

[owl]

He is still following the Grand Right Wing Conspiracy. What else could he be selling these judges, 3 years later?

[topsecretk9]

Well, if he keeps UGO a subject indefinitely then he doesn't have to give Libby info on subject UGO, that's the ticket.

[larwyn]

How will America feel about

Dick Gregory - Drunk on Imus

via transcript at Drudge:

IMUS: NBC Chief White House Correspondant from New Delhi, India. Clearly drunk.

Bats in the Beltway

Taranto yesterday:

There seems to be an outbreak of mental illness in Washington....

Meanwhile, the New York Times reports that questions are being raised about the mental health of the White House press corps:

Renana Brooks, a clinical psychologist practicing in Washington who said she had counseled several White House correspondents, said the last few years had given rise to "White House reporter syndrome," in which competitive high achievers feel restricted and controlled and become emotionally isolated from others who are not steeped in the same experience.

She said the syndrome was evident in the Cheney case, which she described as an inconsequential event that produced an outsize feeding frenzy. She said some reporters used the occasion to compensate for not having pressed harder before the Iraq war.

"It's like any post-traumatic stress," she said, "like when someone dies and you think you could have saved them."

CHEERS!

[[REDACTED] E.]

Call me crazy, but after reading Fitz's new filing, I've finally figured this out. It's related, surprisingly, to [REDACTED] and also related to [REDACTED] . And we musn't forget about [REDACTED} --not to mention when Libby [REDACTED], as well as when Rove [REDACTED] to [REDACTED], way back in 2002. The three important things to keep in mind are:

1. [REDACTED]

2. [REDACTED]

Matt Cooper of Time said that [REDACTED]*
pursuant to Secretary of [REDACTED]

3. [REDACTED]

Makes sense?

Therefore, [REDACTED].
---------
* I am of course referring to [REDACTED]

[topsecretk9]

Jime

My response is [REDACTED]

[topsecretk9]

I'm just waiting for Lawrence O'Donell to again tell us what is in the [REDACTED] --(His whole family are lawyers you know)

[TM]

Hmm, can it be long until Dick Cheney tells Fitzgerald to go redact himself?

[cathyf]

Is conspiracy to redact a redacto-racket?

cathy :-)

[owl]

Ho ho ts...mock O'Donnell at your peril. All the [REDACTED] is O'Donnell.

[Javani]

"--And while Libby cites Andrea Mitchell's account implying that she knew about Wilson's wife before July 14, there is a later statement by NBC that she did not---"

Nifty, takes the word not from the horse's mouth, but from other horse.

That NBC statement might have been one of those "he/she did not name" Plame sidestepping whether they spoke of "Wilson's wife."

[clarice]

Yes--that's a little more Fitz fandango isn't it? Like the presser and the fn to the Miller Court that the Espionage Act might just might apply.

I've been watching J. Walton and I think he didn't tall off the turnip truck like Tatel. Fitz will not fandango the night fantastic away for long, I predict.

[larwyn]

Bats in the Beltway?

Did the NYT's in publishing the piece on "White House reporter syndrome," quoting Renana Brooks, a clinical psychologist practicing in Washington just fall into one of the ultimate Rovian traps?

They were trying to create another Bush Victim Class - but now we know that reporters are under psych care.

Is Renana really Neo-neocon, or Shrinkwrapped or one of the Sigmund,Carl and Alfred gang?

Lefties feel very put out if they cannot be part of a "victim class" - white lefty males must feel the very worst if they make extravagant salaries.

In the Blue Urban areas - there is something wrong with you if you are not in therapy for something.

Does this set up Libby's team for asking reporters with different memories from Libby's, Were you taking any prescription drugs at the time of your conversations?

Isn't that asked all the time of witnesses. As an extreme sufferer of "medicine head", it is a great and apt line of inquiry. NAL, so is it?

And can they now ask - " Mr. Cooper, where did you have lunch that day? How many ______did you have with lunch?"

Think of all the accusations that Cheney was drinking - and that it was extrapolated to "Republicans all get smashed on Saturday!"

Well what was Mr. Russert doing the weekend that Libby called to complain?

I call CNN'S Woooooooooof and Jack A** show the "Day Room" for the very reason they seem very psych disturbed and Nurse Ratchett is off her game. And does anyone not think that Chris Matthews is somehow off his meds or on too many?

Wonder who way buying at the hotel bar in India today??

[owl]

Oh boy, I hope Libby can question these fine reporters. Think he should just take their work, item by item, read the crap...show the crap, and then ask who does it help? Make them each prove they produced at least 3 helpfuls in the midst of the hundreds of negatives.

[larwyn]

sorry medicine head in action!

[ed]

This is pretty scary stuff:

Fitzgerald in paragraph 38 “and Mr. Libby is charged with telling Ms. Miller and Mr. Cooper.”

Is Fits NUTS? Libby has not been charged with anything of the sort.

Actually if you read the whole sentence, he says that "It has also been publicly reported that Mr. Woodward and Mr. Novak knew about Wilson’s wife’s employment before July 14 and Mr. Libby is charged with telling Ms. Miller and Mr. Cooper."

He's not saying he's been charged, he's saying it's been reported he's been charged.

[Javani]

Clarice,

I hope so. Because Fitzgerald seemes to be rearguing the UGO identification could it be that the chance Libby and the public will be informed still has a chance? Sullied reputations be damned!

[clarice]

I'd find it amazing if UGO's (aka Armitage)name stays secret much longer. The thought that he was so desirous of keeping his skirts clean while letting this continue makes him truly loathesome.

[Jim E.]

clarice,
Your "loathesome" remark made me think of Cliff May. Did he ever respond to your e-mail weeks and weeks ago about why he is not listed by Fitz as one of several reporters who knew about Wilson's wife prior to July 14 (contrary to what he has written)?

[Sue]

I don't want it to be Armitage. (Okay, I don't want it to be Rumsfeld more, so if the choice is Armitage--Rumsfeld, I'll take Armitage). It isn't as sexy as Powell would be.

[clarice]

I believe this affidavit indicates Cliff May was questioned and Fitz turned that over to Libby.

[ed]

Where?

[topsecretk9]

He's not saying he's been charged, he's saying it's been reported he's been charged.

HUH?

[clarice]

I'm sorry it's in pdf form and I am not rereading..Emptywheel indicates the same thing..

[ed]

There is no mention of Cliff May in the entire document and unless EmptyWheel is making assumptions, they're is no way to know May is referenced here.

[Javani]

Isn't Cliff May one of those recounters of the former Ambassador's Green Room guy-talk about his hot babe CIA wife?

[ed]

Patton says that Fitz states that Libby is being charged with telling Cooper and Miller. That's not what Fitzgerald says. He says it's been "REPORTED."

[clarice]

Jess, I apologize. I'm quite under the weather today and reading the pdf stuff hurts my eyes. I took another look and don't see the May reference I thought I'd seen so maybe I confused that with EW's report.

I do think the reference to what was reported is odd..as odd as the Mitchell tap dance. I do hope ZFitz doesn't confuse news reports with evidence.

[clarice]

JeFF--sorry for the typose--

Cliff May is I believe in the "everybody knew" category..

[Sue]

Okay, on page 9, the REDACTED person is Rove. On page 10, Redacted is again Rove and his email on the heads up about Cooper, was it to Hadley? I can't remember.

[emptywheel]

To Clarify,

I was taking the passage TM refers to above, where there are at least two journalist's names redacted (whose transcripts have been turned over to Libby). I agree with TM that Andrea Mitchell is a very likely candidate. ANd I think Cliff May is another likely candidate.

But if I'm right, then it means that the FBI questioned May. ANd he said he didn't know, in spite of what he claimed.

[topsecretk9]

That's not what Fitzgerald says. He says it's been "REPORTED."

Seeing as Fitz cites what has been "Reported" as gospel, that is the weirdest cite ever.

[ed]

From emptywheel:

This suggests Fitzgerald handed over testimony from other reporters (my guesses are Andrea Mitchell and Clifford May, and possibly Nicholas Kristof).

So yeah, it's only a guess.

[topsecretk9]

Hadley? I can't remember.

Yes

[Cecil Turner]

That's not what Fitzgerald says. He says it's been "REPORTED."

Don't think so. There's an "and" in there, and a tense change, which suggests "reported" doesn't extend to "charged." But he's probably just using "charged" in the sense that those conversations are in the indictment and part of the perjury charge. Slightly sloppy usage, but that's about it.

Okay, on page 9, the REDACTED person is Rove.

Concur.

[clarice]

Thanks EW. Of course other journos said they knew--Perestz comes to mind--and other non-journos like Vallely--so we don't actually know who Fitz is referring to.

[ed]

Actually I think I'm wrong with my reading of that sentence. It's bad one and does seem to state that Fitzgerelad is claiming Libby told Miller and Cooper. Which I guess is true anyway, though that's not the charge per se.

[ed]

I agree with Cecil Turner. He's said it better than I.

[Sue]

Fitz says that Libby has been charged with telling Cooper & Miller. Whatever he meant, he said 'charged'.

[ed]

My dictionary has 12 entries for "charge" as a verb alone, only one of which haa anything to do with a "legal" charge.

[clarice]

Well- since this is an affidavit in a criminal proceeding, I think it's probably a good idea to use the legal definition as opposed to the one used in bullfights or Visa ads, don't you?

[Sue]

We have also produced to Libby the documents obtained from Cooper regarding his converstation with ____1_____. We have further provided Libby's defense team with a copy of ___2____ email to ___3_____ referencing the conversation with ____4______.

Okay, the 1st blank is Rove. I had assumed they were discussing Rove's email (2nd blank) to Hadley (3rd blank), but it is probably Cooper's (2nd blank) email to his boss (3rd blank). 4th blank again is probably Rove.

[Sue]

There are no responsive documents pertaining to Mr. Russert. No tape of the Libby/Russert conversation. A he said/he said moment, then...

[ed]

But seeing as Libby has NOT been legally charged with telling Miller and Cooper wouldn't it be obvious to use one of the other 10 more benign definitions.

[clarice]

Didn't Cooper say he called from the pool party? I think the drinl question would be on target.LOL

[cathyf]

But seeing as Libby has NOT been legally charged with telling Miller and Cooper wouldn't it be obvious to use one of the other 10 more benign definitions.

Is the suggestion that somebody strapped horns on his head, pawed at the dust, and tried to disembowel Libby really a more benign definition?

cathy :-)

[Cecil Turner]

No tape of the Libby/Russert conversation. A he said/he said moment, then...

The real problem with the Libby/Russert conversation is the "I forgot" bit. And that's going to depend a lot more on earlier conversations with other Administration officials (Fleischer, et al) than on anything Russert has to say. That said, I don't agree as some have claimed, that it's a slam dunk. If those conversations were predominantly on the trip, and Plame's involvement a minor side issue, it's not inconceivable that he'd misremember the details, then and later.

wouldn't it be obvious to use one of the other 10 more benign definitions

I think the best excuse for Fitz is that it's an ancillary part of a background statement . . . not that he's overusing the word "charged" in an affidavit. I also think it's a bit Freudian, since I still believe he wanted to hang a leaking charge on Libby. And though it's a natural tendency (when you're the guy with the hammer, everything looks like a nail), it's still a bit inappropriate.

[maryrose]

Sue:
I was surprised by that also. I thought Russert's info would be in there and also no Pincus information or V. Novak? How come?

[Sue]

Why use the word charge to begin with? Unless, of course, you didn't want anyone to see it as benign.

[clarice]

Maybe Fitz is thinking of another case..LOL..The one where the name of a classified super secret agent was leaked to punish a whistle blower and caused harm to national defense..Though I expect soon enough J. Walton will remind him he's got his cases confused.

[larwyn]

Clarice,
1) Hmmmmm Cooper at a "pool party"?
Swiming pool? Or Journalist pool?

NAL but learning fast that each word must be fully defined.

2) Where was Russert when Libby called?
Anyone know or know time of day?

Seems every "successful Bush bashing" episode of MTP would be reason for a bit of celebration.
High-fives all around - frat boy
stuff! - don't you think?

[ed]

Um swimming pool. The guy was suposedly drying off while on the phone or waiting for the call back.

[Patton]

So FITZ says:

ANDREA MITCHELL claims to have known about Plame, BUT, he instead decides to take the word, not of her but of NBC, her emplyer and protector of TIM RUSSERT.

Given this statement by Fitz, logic would assume that instead of taking the word of COOPER and MILLER, he needed to go ask TIME and NYT.

He simply ignores inconvenient facts when they don't fit his story line. UGO was the biggest blowout of his original storyline so he had to be REDACTED. Next Fitz will be asking the judge to have UGO where an iron mask and be imprisoned in France.

[larwyn]

Mr.Cooper, the National Weather Service reports show that it was 98
degrees in ___ on_____ and full sun. Do you remember that?

So it was bright and hot and you were enjoying yourself with friends? family? at a pool party at
_____?

Was alcohol served at this party?

Only one beer you say?

Your own magazine questioned the sobriety of Vice President Cheney
on _______for having had one beer four hours before the accident. So
is it the opinion of Time magazine and their experts that more then four hours must pass before one can be judged sober?

So using the standards of your respected news magazine Time,can you be judged to have been sober when you spoke with Mr.Libby?

NAL - just pretending - but would be great Law & Order if they weren't so bent!

[Patton]

How about, Mr. Cooper, who wears the pants in your family?

[Rick Ballard]

Geez, Patton, we're already working the Les Miserables theme pretty hard, as well as Kafka (as warranted) and The Pink Panther - do you think bringing in Dumas is a plus at this point? There are a lot people here who keep wondering if the Star Chamber episode involved Captain Kirk, Captain Picard or Captain Cisco, ya know?

[Lew Clark]

This proves that Libby is innocent of all charges. And I'm willing to pay $10,000 to anyone who can challenge my analysis. The reason Libby has now been proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, to be innocent of all charges is [REDACTED].

[clarice]

Dumas keeps showing up at my keyboard trying to take it over, but I keep telling him to wait, it's not yet time.Though each time I reread the early Wilson stuff (never covered by the msm) J'Accuse mysteriously pops up on my screen.
I can't wait for Russert to tell us what Libby was bitching about, can you?

[Rick Ballard]

I challenge your analysis.

I would prefer used bills in dnominations of $20 or less. Please provide contact info so that arrangements may be made.

[Lew Clark]

Damn Rick, ya nailed me.

Contact info: Patient 1793600, C/O, Federal Mental Facility, Bethesda, MD. 20892-666

Please specify if you want the dull green, gray and white bills, or the prettier multi-colored ones.

[clarice]

I'm shocked, shocked to find out there's gambling going on here.

[Jeff]

Cooper called but didn't talk with Libby from the club. Another imprecision from clarice, ho hum.

ew - It's been reported by David Corn that Cliff May told him he had been interviewed by the FBI. Which means either May in fact acknowledged that he did not know Wilson's wife worked for the CIA before Novak's column, or Fitzgerald does not categorize May as a reporter, since he is not on Fitzgerald's list of reporters who knew about Plame before Novak's column.

No tape, no record of the Libby-Russert conversation. We know Russert testified about his immediate call to NBC execs or some such. So not quite he said-he said alone, but pretty close. There remains the problem that Libby was telling Fleischer, in some concrete detail, about Plame three days earlier.

[topsecretk9]

Um swimming pool. The guy was suposedly drying off while on the phone or waiting for the call back.

and luxuriating in all his nude magnificence of his hotel bed. Um yuck

[topsecretk9]

on his bed, not of

[clarice]

[i]I was wet, smelling of chlorine. It was July 12, 2003, in Washington, a beautiful summer day, and I had just come back from swimming. All morning I had been trying to reach I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby for a cover story about both President George W. Bush’s claim that Iraq had sought uranium in Africa and former Ambassador Joseph Wilson’s controversial Op-Ed. I had been invited to a fancy Washington country club by friends. Since the club didn’t allow the use of cell phones, I kept running from pool to parking lot to try to reach Libby, who was traveling to Norfolk, Va., with Vice President Dick Cheney for the commissioning of the U.S.S. Ronald Reagan. Eventually I raced home without showering in order to take Libby’s call. When he finally reached me at around 3 p.m., we spoke for a few minutes as I sprawled on my bed. [/i]

[clarice]

Thanks, Jeff..I now have to live with a wet swim suited Matt Cooper running.

[Patton]

Jeff, you still seem to believe that just because Libby KNEW something three days earlier, that he actually would tell that information to a reporter or had to have told it.

Just because Libby knew something, doesn't mean he told someone exactly that or didn't make up something else...that is not the crime..the crime would be telling the FBI or the GJ an intentionally false story.

Libby could have told Russert that Wilson was secretly married to Bill Clinton and they made mad passionate man love in the oval office, and he can't be indicted for lying. But if he then turns around and tells the FBI that he told Russert that Wilson and Jeff were lovers, trying to conceal Russerts relationship...then that would be a crime. But telling the press a story is not a crime or else every politician would be in jail.

So according to Jeff and Fitz, if you tell you buddy that your wife looks fat in her black dress and then three days later, your wife asks you how she looked in her black dress, you must say FAT..even though you only told you buddy she looked fat because your buddies wife is huge and you didn't weant him to feel bad.

[Jeff]

Patton - Hate to break it to you, but I am aware of the difference between lying to a reporter on July 10, 2003 and lying to FBI investigators in fall 2003 and the grand jury in spring 2004 about the conversation with the reporter on July 10, 2003. Fitzgerald, the grand jury, the FBI investigators, among others, think that Libby was lying to them about the content of the conversation with Russert, not lying during the conversation.

[Patton]

Then explain to us all how referring back to conversations Libby had with other government officials shows he had INTENT to lie about his conversation with the reporters to the FBI....it may show that he intended to lie to the reporter, but it doesn't show intent to lie to the FBI or the GJ.

[Rick Ballard]

Jeff,

What was the complete question to which Libby 'lied' in response? The complete question - not a paraphrase.

[Sue]

Rick,

Here, let me help you out...REDACTED.

::grin:: This could be really fun.

[Patton]

Fitx keeps repeating to us how many times Libby was told by other government officials about Valerie Plame....to some people (Maybe even Jeff) this shows an obsession with Plame, or at least an on-going passion...
But what it could also just as well show is that Libby had a bad memory and people had to keep repeating information to him...imagine a guy who needed NINE different people to tell him Plame was Wilsons wife. Did any of these officials tell Fits that Libby told them..."STOP TELLING ME WHO PLAME IS, I KNOW ALREADY".

So what does it tells us about a guy who has to deal with 9 other officials repeating the same nit-noid information to him...and how many other millions of pieces of information did they impart to Mr. Libby.

[Lew Clark]

I'm still having trouble getting my head around Fitz' statement "It has been publicly reported that...Libby was charged with telling Miller and Cooper." I'm not a lawyer or a judge, but if I were a judge, I'd be all over a prosecutor that used the word "charged" in this context. Since "charged" has a legal meaning. And in the course of going to trial, the prosecutor damn well be able to show me an indictment any time he uses the term "charged with".

[Patton]

Now how would Libby remember who told him first? You have nine peope telling you this over a weeks period, then 6 months later your expected to remember exactly what each person said what and in order???

Come on.

[Sue]

Libby calls Russert to complain about Matthews' coverage of the Wilson story. And Libby doesn't mention Valerie. I'm not buying it. Here is a partial transcript of the July 8th show Libby was complaining about:

MATTHEWS: ... I think it's a very aggravating situation over there, and very questionable how long we are going to stay, et cetera. But I want to get back to this. Last year the CIA sent -- the Central Intelligence Agency sent ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger to investigate whether that country sold uranium to Iraq.
He, the former ambassador, concluded it was highly doubtful that such a transaction had taken place. And he told Andrea Mitchell on your "MEET THE PRESS" that he was, quote, "absolutely convinced that Dick Cheney's office, the vice president's office was aware of his report before the State of the Union Address."

I want to ask you, Congressman Weldon, does it disturb you? The possibility that the vice president of the United States, his office, learned that this uranium information wasn't accurate, that Saddam Hussein did not try to buy uranium from Africa, and yet they let the president go ahead and say that in his State of the Union Address? Does that bother you?

And Libby didn't mention Valerie? Are you really going to ask a jury to buy this? That Libby was mad as hell about Matthews' repeating Wilson's tale and he...never...mentioned...Valerie? I'm not buying it.

[Sue]

It actually gets better. Matthews mentions Libby...and Libby never mentions Valerie to Russert...

MATTHEWS: Why would the vice president's office, Scooter Libby or whoever is running that office -- why would they send a CIA effort down in Niger to verify something, find out there wasn't a uranium sale, and then not follow-up by putting that information -- or correcting that information -- in the president's State of the Union? If they went to the trouble to sending Joe Wilson all the way to Africa to find out whether that country had ever sold uranium to Saddam Hussein, why wouldn't they follow-up on that?

[andrew]

So was Fitz saying that, "It has been publicly reported that...Libby was charged[by his superiors as a task] with telling Miller and Cooper." ?

[Sue]

And Libby didn't mention Valerie...the defense will have a field day with this transcript alone...

MATTHEWS: Just to recap, here's what we know. Joe Wilson, a former ambassador in the United States government, was sent to Niger to establish there whether there was in fact an arms deal for nuclear materials between Saddam Hussein and the government of Niger.

He came back and reported back to the CIA at the behest of the vice president's office, that there was no such deal. That office of the vice president, whoever is in there, Scooter Libby on down, or the vice president himself, never told the president that there was nothing to that, that that was a dry hole story. And yet, the president went on television, telling the American people it was true. Somebody's to blame here, and it's a very high level and it's not speculating.

[Rick Ballard]

Sue,

Very nice catch. Tip's flack kinda put his foot into it didn't he? Gee, I wonder whose side he might be on?

[Sue]

Rick,

I'm anxious to see what Russert's actual testimony was. According to news reports, Russert did not testify to what Libby told him, only what Russert told Libby. Odd that Fitzgerald didn't care what Libby said to Russert, if the news reports were accurate.

[MJW]

I typed in the various sentences that named Novak and Woodward's source(s) into Microsoft Word with the default page width and font (Times New Roman) with the font set to 11 point. The tab was set to 0.45" to match what seemed to be the tab setting in the document. I substituted the names Armitage, Rumsfeld, Tenet, Powell, and Scowcroft, sometimes preceded by "Mr." I then compared the alignment of various letters in adjacent sentences to the actual document.

Only Armitage, Rumsfeld, and Scowcroft were close, with Armitage being the best match. Both Rumsfeld and Scowcroft were too long, though Rumsfeld was a much better match. I conclude it's very likely Armitage, though the difference between the length of "Armitage" and "Rumsfeld" is so small that no definite conclusion is possible (at least by me). And, of course, it could be someone I didn't try.

[maryrose]

Your last quote Sue from Matthews is devastating because it is completely false information. It's cable news but are they allowed to report as they do quite frequently on msnbc completely false info? That's pretty bad reporting-inaccurate and attributes motives and actions that were not true . No wonder Libby called Russert to complain. Did Cooper say in his press conference that Libby told him directly about Plame? Because that word charge in the indictment papers seems to suggest that.

[Lew Clark]

Yep Sue,
I can hardly wait for Russert to squirm when he is examined by the defense. His (and Matthews) propensity to jabber on and on after Russert's testimony. I think the real killer for Russert was his "it all came together" when I read Novak's column. Russert said he knew a lot, but not that Val sent Joe. But he never asked the VP's number one, well if Cheney didn't send Joe, who did?
and I don't remember for sure, but I seem to remember that Matthews was never questioned. Why would the reporter that knows (and reports ad nauseam) everything about who did what to whom, not be questioned about his sources.

[Sue]

Maryrose,

Matthews can say anything he wants. He isn't straight news. He does news analysis. I guess he would be subject to liable suits, if someone wanted to take it up with him, but ratings rule him. And if you haven't been keeping up with his ratings, they stink.

[Jeff]

MJW - Very similar experiments were performed earlier in the day over at emptywheel's, with a slightly different bent, but with the same results.

patton - Could you specify for me which nine people told Libby about Plame. That's not the number I get. And could you please specify for me what you mean by intent to lie, and what sorts of evidence, just as a general matter, can count as evidence of intent to lie? Anything beyond testimony saying something to the effect of, "I lied, I intended to lie," or another person saying, "He told me 'I lied, I intended to lie'"?

[Jeff]

Sue - Are you suggesting that it is implausible that Libby did not leak to Russert, or that the fact that he did not is in itself telling?

[MJW]

If anyone wishes to experiment, here are the sentences I used:

(PAGE 14)
how. Mr. Cooper published articles twice about his conversations with Mr. Libby and Mr. Rove. Ms. Miller published her account of her conversation with Mr. Libby. Mr. Novak has published a brief description of how he learned the information, albeit declining to name his sources (XXX and Rove). Mr. Libby indisputably knows at least one of Mr. Novak’s sources

(PAGE 15)
The one significant piece of information that Libby is not being told is the identity of Mr. XXX as a source for

(PAGE 16)
transcript of the conversation between Woodward and Rumsfeld and Novak has published an account briefly describing the conversation with his first confidential source (XXX).

(PAGE 16)
Robert Woodward (that part of his deposition where he discusses his conversation with Mr. Libby and that part describing the substance of the conversation with his other source, XXX, with XXX’s name redacted).

(I hope I typed them correctly.)

[Rick Ballard]

Sure, Jeff. We live to answer your questions but - ya know, buddy, answer mine first, 'cause otherwise some doubt as to your probity may become an issue. You have the answer right there, right? I mean it's obvious from your responses that you know every question asked of Libby so just fish it up.

[MJW]

Jeff: "MJW - Very similar experiments were performed earlier in the day over at emptywheel's, with a slightly different bent, but with the same results."

Thanks, Jeff. I should have checked first before re-inventing the (empty) wheel.

I wonder if people will start modifying their redaction methods to avoid such techniques.

[Sue]

Jeff,

I am saying it is implausible that Libby and Russert did not discuss who sent Wilson.

I am also off to watch Walk the Line.

Have a good evening, everyone.

[Rick Ballard]

MJW,

Rummy is of the "take him out and shoot him" school so I think we can dismiss him from contention.

[PeterUK]

When considering journalists and writers in general it is as well to remember that they are members of a drinking

[PeterUK]

Profession

[Jeff]

Rick - We only have a few of the questions in response to which Libby is accused of making false and perjurious statements, as at pp. 20-21 of the indictment. There are also other q+a's where Libby is pretty obviously believed by Fitzgerald to be lying. But we don't have most. And? Is the idea that it will be much easier to see what Libby was doing in saying the things he said once we have the questions themselves?