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April 26, 2006



I can always tell what's inside a wrapped package: It's a puzzle. But this stuff smells like horse puzzle. Just wait 'til I get my hands on my sister Virginia. And I'm not playing kick the football with her best friend, anymore, either.

One of these days..... Lucy in the sky with diamonds.

Hit The Bid

Target Letter Drives Rove Back to Grand Jury
By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t | Issue

Wednesday 26 April 2006

Karl Rove's appearance before a grand jury in the CIA leak case Wednesday comes on the heels of a "target letter" sent to his attorney recently by Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, signaling that the Deputy White House Chief of Staff may face imminent indictment, sources that are knowledgeable about the probe said Wednesday.

It's unclear when Fitzgerald sent the target letter to Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin. Sources close to the two-year-old leak investigation said when Rove's attorney received the letter Rove volunteered to appear before the grand jury for an unprecedented fifth time to explain why he did not previously disclose conversations he had with the media about covert CIA operative Valerie Plame and her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who criticized the Bush administration's use of pre-war Iraq intelligence.

A federal grand jury target letter is sent to a person in a criminal investigation who is likely to be indicted. A "target" of a grand jury investigation is a person who a prosecutor has substantial evidence to link to a crime.

Last week, Rove was stripped of some of his policy duties in a White House shakeup orchestrated by incoming Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten. The White House insisted that Rove was not demoted, but insiders said the executive branch is bracing for a possible indictment against Rove.

Luskin was accompanying Rove to US District Court in Washington, DC, Wednesday morning and unavailable for comment. Rove was told by Fitzgerald's staff that his testimony could last for as long as three hours.

In an interview last week, Luskin confirmed that Rove was a "subject" of Fitzgerald's probe. In a previous interview, Luskin asserted that Rove would not be indicted by Fitzgerald, but he was unwilling to make that same prediction again during an interview last week.

"Mr. Fitzgerald hasn't made any decision on the charges and I can't speculate what the outcome will be," Luskin said in an interview last week. "Mr. Rove has cooperated completely with the investigation."

Luskin said Rove has not been offered any plea deal by Fitzgerald and Rove has cooperated with the probe voluntarily. He said Rove's cooperation is not contingent upon any plea agreement.

People close to the case said that Fitzgerald has presented additional evidence to the grand jury in the past week that shows Rove lied to federal investigators and a grand jury eight out of the nine times he was asked about his knowledge of the leak since October 2003.

Should Wednesday's court appearance by Rove provide the grand jury with answers to lingering questions, Rove may not be charged with obstruction of justice, but will likely be indicted for perjury and lying to investigators, sources close to the case said.

For one, according to the sources close to the investigation, the likelihood that Rove will be charged with perjury centers on the fact that Rove has testified at least three times that he first discovered that Plame worked for the CIA after her name was printed in a July 2003 newspaper report by conservative columnist Robert Novak. Evidence has since surfaced that shows Rove spoke to Novak about Plame prior to Novak's published report in which Novak outed the undercover CIA officer.

Moreover, Rove did not disclose that he had also been a source for a story about Plame written by Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper, and Rove testified that he was not involved in a campaign to discredit or attack the credibility of Plame's husband, Ambassador Wilson, when at least two dozen witnesses have testified before the grand jury that Rove was in fact instrumental in the smear campaign on Wilson.

Rove's grand jury appearance Wednesday is crucial in determining whether he will face a charge of obstruction of justice for not turning over an explosive email that was written moments after his July 2003 conversation with Time's Cooper. Rove volunteered to testify before the grand jury Wednesday to explain why he did not disclose and locate the email for more than a year, sources close to the case said.

Luskin said that Rove simply forgot about his conversation with Cooper when he testified before the grand jury because Rove had been dealing with other pressing matters, such as Bush's reelection campaign.

Rove's story began to unravel when Fitzgerald discovered the existence of an email Rove sent to then-Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley after he spoke with Cooper on July 11, 2003, which Hadley and Rove did not disclose to the special prosecutor or hand over to his probe, sources close to the case said.

"I didn't take the bait," Rove wrote in the email to Hadley immediately following his conversation with Cooper. "Matt Cooper called to give me a heads-up that he's got a welfare reform story coming. When he finished his brief heads-up he immediately launched into Niger. Isn't this damaging? Hasn't the president been hurt? I didn't take the bait, but I said if I were him I wouldn't get Time far out in front on this."

In December, desperate to keep his client out of Fitzgerald's crosshairs, Luskin became a witness in the case when he made an explosive revelation to Fitzgerald.

Luskin revealed to Fitzgerald that Viveca Novak - a reporter working for Time magazine who wrote several stories about the Plame Wilson case - inadvertently tipped him off in early 2004 that her colleague at the magazine, Matt Cooper, would be forced to testify that Rove was his source who told him about Plame Wilson's CIA status.

Novak - who bears no relation to syndicated columnist Robert Novak, the journalist who first published Plame Wilson's name and CIA status in a July 14, 2003, column - met Luskin in Washington, DC, in the summer of 2004, and over drinks, the two discussed Fitzgerald's investigation into the Plame Wilson leak.

Luskin assured Novak that Rove learned Plame Wilson's name and CIA status after it was published in news accounts and that only then did he phone other journalists to draw their attention to it. But Novak told Luskin that everyone in the Time newsroom knew Rove was Cooper's source and that he would testify to that in an upcoming grand jury appearance, these sources said.

According to Luskin's account, after he met with Viveca Novak he contacted Rove and told him about his conversation with her. The two of them then began an exhaustive search through White House phone logs and emails for any evidence that proved that Rove had spoken with Cooper. Luskin said that during this search an email was found that Rove sent to Hadley immediately and it was subsequently turned over to Fitzgerald.

Still, Rove's account of his conversation with Cooper went nothing like he described in his email to Hadley, according to an email Cooper sent to his editor at Time magazine following his conversation with Rove in July 2003.

"It was, KR said, [former Ambassador Joseph] Wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd [weapons of mass destruction] issues who authorized [Wilson's] trip," Cooper's July 11, 2003, email to his editor said.

Jason Leopold spent two years covering California's electricity crisis as Los Angeles bureau chief of Dow Jones Newswires. Jason has spent the last year cultivating sources close to the CIA leak investigation, and is a regular contributor to t r u t h o u t. He is the author of the new book NEWS JUNKIE. Visit www.newsjunkiebook.com for a preview.


Well, obviously Rove didn't share that information with his lawyer. CNN quotes Luskin as saying Rove has been assured he is not a target.
Stick with JL if you will, but to avoid disappointment place a negative in front of all his assertions.

Hit The Bid

Just an FYI...sometimes this guy gets a scoop, sometimes not.


Name one.

From Larwyn's earlier post:"CNN RELEASES LUSKIN'S STATEMENT


BTW when is his much publicized book finally going to be published and will it top Kos'?

Hit The Bid

Isn't the question now who asked to who to have Rove go in front of the Grand Jury? If it was Luskind, woldn't it seem like he was trying to avoid indictment? If it was Fitzmas, then, wouldn't it seem he was about to clear Rove?

Clarice..tried to hedge, but you beat me to the post.

Hit The Bid

I wouldn't buy that book.

Gary Maxwell

sometimes this guy gets a scoop, sometimes not.

Posted by: Hit The Bid

HTB is granted the "understatement of the day" award. Google Blue Moon and then read intently.


If made up stuff rings your bell, HTB, for a mere $5 a day, I'll fill your head with merde, too.

More credible sources than JL (i.e., almost anyone) indicate Rove volunteered to go before the gj after a discussion with Fitz. And it appears this is just a tidying up matter.

One more indictment out of that cuckoo sp and he will be fired or his funds yanked. He's already made one preposterous move and will be lucky if the Judge grants Libby's motion to dismiss and spares Fitz yer further certain humiliation.


Anyone have Luskin's statement by the way?

Hit The Bid

"If made up stuff rings your bell, HTB, for a mere $5 a day, I'll fill your head with merde, too."

Jeez there I was providing you with timely information to rail against, and you ding me for it! You should thank me!

Gary Maxwell


Jason is in the bookstores. He told me personally. Well not that personally but he did send me an e-mail on April 24th announcing the book. Not sure why he thought I would buy his book given my extreme derision whenever he is quoted as a story author but he did. Send me an e-mail if you want it, its a hoot. I will send it back as an attachment. Wont take much more than a few libraries purchasing to beat KOS, btw.

Hit The Bid

Who's psyched for Coulter's book on the 6th?!?!?!


One does detect a kinder, gentler commenting demeanor on the part of HTB. Playing better with others.


ed, I cannot find the statement online yet, but I'd bank on Larwyn's account.If she says that's what they said, that's what they said in my book.

Hit The Bid

I am a very peaceful man! I only resort to vitriolic spew when provoked with lazy LCD attacks.

Rick Ballard

Wait for the meds to wear off a little. It's that bell curve thing - mellow for two hours then the slide into the very long sleeved coat. I just hope the nurses and orderlies are nice where he lives.

Hit The Bid

Found that, but its not the whole statement...

"In a statement issued upon the conclusion of Rove's testimony at the federal courthouse in Washington and aired by CNN, attorney Robert D. Luskin said the special counsel in the case, U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald, had advised Rove that he was "not a target of the investigation." However, Luskin added that Fitzgerald affirmed he has made no decision concerning charges."


If Fitz can't get an indictment of something better than "obstruction," he should resign.
So far, we aren't even sure that there ever was a "original crime" to investigate.

I'm personally tired of these investigations that end of having all the crimes commited after the investigation starts. It ends up looking like a modern day Les Miserables, except there is no singing.


Salon has something:

Hit The Bid

Always the flirt Rick!


"He Who Can Not Be Named?"

Inquiry is verboten. Novak's signal that the leaker was "not a partisan gunslinger" did not compel the MSM and its faction of chattering class clones to take the hint and pursue that newsworthy tidbit.

It had the opposite effect. It signaled that the core of the lefty Plamegate narrative did not lead to the White House but someplace else. So it is ignored because it does promote BDS and campaigneering-class scapegoating of Rove for their own failures.

As for the righties, Rove and his minions were way not smart enough to define Joe Wilson as a Kerry campaign adviser.

The possible Beers/Wilson/McCarthy/Kerry selective leak campaign is a juicy one, but the MSM will fight its revelation and Bushy is too concerned with amity with his enemies in order to push through big ticket business lobby issues like the Super Amnesty.

Gary Maxwell

HTB maybe you should come here more often. And just read. I dont know a single regular commenter here that is a big fan of Ann Coulter. She can be just as obnoxious ( but no any more so than ) Susan Estrich, for example. Of course both are bright and occasionally make brilliant points. Doesn't mean we like her any more than you are an Estrich fan.


Hit the Bid:

"Who's psyched for Coulter's book on the 6th?!?!?!"

Hopefully you are sarcastic. Not funny is your posting of whole articles from other sites. Just post a link and/or text clip. Don't be a thread-killer.


Not many Michael Savage fans around these parts either.

Hit The Bid

I'm sorry I should have been clearer that I was messing around.


Gregory is saying Rove "was called"

"could his power be further reduced?" David Schuster is doing David Schuster..........

"problem we are seeing is the timing of Rove's changing his testitmony......Cooper's testimony"

"Interesting that Karl's attorney is "saying" that Rove is not a TARGET" BUT ........BLAH BLAH BLAH

Gregory: "5th time - isn't this a distraction?" he is asking Geoge Allen "Isn't he comprimised"

Now he is going to trash Tony Snow1

Hit The Bid

Agreed, the articleposting could have been handled better--mistakes were made.



Any number of the folks around here are (or were until 2004 or so) Jackson Democrats ... Andrew and Scoop.


Damn, Laskin's comments sure makes it look like all Fitz had on Rove was some akin to obstruction. This is truely pathetic.

This means that Fitz is either trying to save his own reputation by looking for additional charges to throw at Libby to shore up that crumbing case, or (in the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi) "there is another."


Woooof & Tobin spinning that 5th appearance means something.

Woooof "doesn't it mean....5th

Always hard to type - but harder while I'm gagging -

Went to Fox Sen Lautenberg D NJ is on talking against the wildlife in Alaska, N.J. etc

still gagging

Hit The Bid

"Doesn't mean we like her any more than you are an Estrich fan".

I know her very well actually, not a fan.


The only trouble with amity with your enemies is that it drops your guard and your troops go home. Surely this poker player understands that the long game depends on calling this bluff, just as it did on calling Saddam's bluff.

Gary Maxwell

I know her very well actually,

Then you certainly know what I mean too.


Kim, have you been reading Jeff Gooldstein again? That boy'll spin yer brain. (Damn, he's good.)

Rick Ballard


Lautenberg is like Reid or Leahey - seeing them as Dem mouthpieces should always cheer you up. Their appearance makes people think "My, doesn't he look natural. The funeral home certainly did a wonderful job." Hope that helps the gag reflex - and thanks for watching for us and reporting.

Ghostcat, what did you think of Bob Kerrey? I think his retirement from active politics was the biggest blow the Dems had wrt the future. He's the only guy that I can think of that could hold the center.

Hit The Bid

Link to Rove spokesman denial (I learned!)



I think Fat Foolishness would be a good name for a blog. Or Carbohydrate Conundrums.


Here a slightly different version than HTB's.

"Karl Rove appeared today before the grand jury investigating the disclosure of a CIA agent's identity. He testified voluntarily and unconditionally at the request of the Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald to explore a matter raised since Mr Rove's last appearance in October 2005," Rove attorney Bob Luskin said in a statement.

'In connection with this appearance, the special counsel has advised Mr. Rove that he is not a target of the investigation. Mr. Fitzgerald has affirmed that he has made no decision concerning charges,' Luskin said.



"The Banality of Sedition" by Vanderleun,
the banality of Clintonista John Podesta by Taranto,
the banality of Chris Matthews

Vanderleun scores again:"The Banality of Sedition"
April 26, 2006

"THESE DAYS its not often that you see a member of the Despairing Classes being seduced by classic Communism on a city street, but it does happen.

Sidewalk Snapshot: It's a warm Spring evening on Pine Street in Seattle. Lengthening shadows and brightening light brings everything into sharp relief including the random collection of lay-abouts, short-order poets, tattoo artistes, and students between degrees that take up the tables outside the Cafe Laddro on Capitol Hill. Capitol Hill is one of those neighborhoods in Seattle that compiles a mainstream lifestyle out of alternatives. Even though it is indeed a hill, it has suspended the normal laws of gravity and everything loose in town has rolled up to the top of it. That includes, on this evening, me.

I'm stepping out of your "one-every-block" Seattle espresso slop shop with my Machiatto when I notice the odd couple at the table just outside the door. That's not too odd since odd couples, like spiked bright blue hair, are pretty much the norm hereabouts. I notice them at first because the youngest is wearing a Motorhead t-shirt with the mantra "Everything Louder Than Everything Else" on it in that faux German Black gothic font that got old when Auschwitz was in flower, and so had to be made new again back when heavy-metal was a fresh idea........

One of the best by one of the best - read it all.
Taranto today:

"Tony Snow is also a nice guy, and smart and candid and cheerful as well. The president is fortunate to have him on the team.

One of the oddest responses to the Snow appointment comes from . The center's ThinkProgress.org site has a chronicle of Snow quotes critical of George W. Bush. It's not a terribly impressive list: Of 14 quotes, five are from before Bush even became president. Others are taken out of context, for example:"

"George Bush has become something of an embarrassment." [11/11/05]

"The quote comes from a column on the Virginia governor's election, in which Democrat Tim Kaine beat Republican Jerry Kilgore. Here it is in context:"

And don't forget about the Swagger Factor: A party that projects confidence and good cheer will thrash a Chicken Little party any day. Kilgore looked scared. Kaine acted like the cool kid on prom night.
The Swagger Factor has national repercussions because George W. Bush has lost his. His wavering conservatism has become an active concern among Republicans, who wish he would stop cowering under the bed and start fighting back against the likes of Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Wilson. The newly passive George Bush has become something of an embarrassment. At the nadir of his campaign, Jerry Kilgore actively dodged having to share a stage with the commander in chief.

From Federalist's email:

This week's "Non Compos Mentis" Award: "And Rolling Stone's cover this month, I must warn you, if you're a Republican or a middle-of-the-roader. Look at this. This is a tough one. What does it say? 'The Worst President in History'." —Chris Matthews **Well, if Rolling Stone says so, that settles it!

Gary Maxwell


You are learning SLOWLY though. Next figure out that most here refer to "Raw Story" as "Half Baked". Worse record than a broken clock. Never right is about right.


JL and his Kos dancers love the Shakespreare classics. First it's McCarthy in her version of "Julius Caesar". Today it's "Much Ado About Nothing" in the case Karl Rove testifying. The World According to Leopold instead of the "World According to Garp"
Absolutely no accountabilty in what is reported or stated as fact. Pathetic!


Gary Hartpence might could hold the center as well as anything....er, anybody.

How about 'as well as could be done'. There, that takes care of business and makes a monkey out of the meaning.

I might have supported Gephart/Kucinich, back before I recognized Bush's light. They'd have taken Missouri and Ohio and not lost a blue state. Instead, it had to be Vietnam deja vu all over again. And now Iraq is presque vu all over the place. Peut-etre toujurs vu prochainement. Spits.



You are so correct! Did you read that crap HTB linked too?

The section of the United States Attorney manual pertaining to target notification does not specify the form in which the notice is to be delivered. In other words, the spokesman's assertion that Rove did not receive a target letter does not resolve whether Rove received notice of any kind.

If Rove did not receive a letter, the lack of a target notice does not necessarily mean that Rove is not a target. The manual does not require that targets be notified before indictment; it simply states that the prosecutor is "encouraged" to notify targets before seeking an indictment against them.

Talk about whipping a dead horse and keeping hope alive when it has been dead for months! It is like attempting to exhume a dead body.


Tks Rick,
After Schuster, Gregory, Wooooof and Tobin, I needed a friendly face and there was full head shot of the Sen from NJ.
I agree with you, I want them out there talking. John Gibson always lets them go as far as they want to go before giving them the one-two. Feeling better now.
Certain viewing must be done in very small bites - not up to those fast eater champs.
Mother taught me small bites, chew before swallowing.


FWIW, Walton's ruling looks right to me - if Libby can't name the leaker himself, the leaker's identity or existence is irrelevant to Libby's state of mind, which is the purpose for which this evidence would be introduced.



"He testified voluntarily and unconditionally at the request of the Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald to explore a matter raised since Mr Rove's last appearance in October 2005," Rove attorney Bob Luskin said in a statement."

There's some meat there. What matter has been raised since October 2005?

Hit The Bid

I will never defend raw story. ever. They are as good as NewsMax in my eyes. Just thought--in error--it was a copy of an AP story.

I retract.


Maybe, just maybe, Fitz finally understands that there was a trap.



I think this is what is being referenced.

The reporter for Time magazine who recently agreed to testify in the CIA leak case is central to White House senior adviser Karl Rove's effort to fend off an indictment in the two-year-old investigation, according to two people familiar with the situation.

Viveca Novak, who has written intermittently about the leak case for Time, has been asked to provide sworn testimony to Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald in the next few weeks after Rove attorney Robert Luskin told Fitzgerald about a conversation he had with her, the two sources said.

It's not clear why Luskin believes Novak's deposition could help Rove, President Bush's deputy chief of staff, who remains under investigation into whether he provided false statements in the case. But a person familiar with the matter said Luskin cited his conversations with Novak in persuading Fitzgerald not to indict Rove in late October, when the prosecutor brought perjury and obstruction-of-justice charges against Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

"This is what caused [Fitzgerald] to hold off on charging" Rove, the source said. But another person familiar with the conversations said they did not appear to significantly alter the case.

Luskin presented evidence, including details of his own conversations with Novak, to Fitzgerald at a secret meeting at a downtown law office shortly before Libby was indicted on Oct. 28, according to a source familiar with the case.


Rick Ballard


Sounds about right. The Viveca matter came up after October IIRC


Karl Rove appeared today before the grand jury investigating the disclosure of a CIA agent's identity. He testified voluntarily and unconditionally at the request of special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald to explore a matter raised since Mr. Rove's last appearance in October 2005. In connection with this appearance, the special counsel has advised Mr. Rove that he is not a target of the investigation. Mr. Fitzgerald has affirmed that he has made no decisions regarding charges. At the request of the special counsel, Mr. Rove will not discuss the substance of his testimony." http://corner.nationalreview.com/06_04_23_corner-archive.asp


There's some meat there. What matter has been raised since October 2005?

Two things that I know of.


V.Novak went before Fitz.


Fitz is such a horse's ass.


Kucinich is now in the race for his life in his representative race from our district . Dennis is going down. Barbara Ann Faris is set to whomp him-big time!


Kim (from 2:29 pm)-

Holy crap! Now yer channelin' Jim Treacher! Lay off that stuff, ya hear?

Rick Ballard (from 2:18 pm)-

Bob Kerrey has always struck me a bright, earnest, patriotic, and more than a tad spacey. His Nam experience did him no favors. I don't think he'd ever make it thru the Dem primaries.


I read part of the transcript, thanks for linking it.

The judge uses the words "tarnish" and "tarnished" regarding release of info about UGO. The first context seems to be singular, the second plural..."people"

I don't see where the judge used the word "sully", that's the reporter's word.


I have not had time to read this whole thread, just the first few posts, so this is addressed to the "is Rove a target?" discussion ...

Fox News, just 1 minute ago, reported on Britt Hume's show that "Fitzgerald, when asked, said that Rove IS NOT A TARGET!"

Hit The Bid

To play devils advocate though (no not Luskin) he does seem to be hedging a bit with the inclusion of this caveat in his issued statement:

"In connection with this appearance, the special counsel has advised Mr. Rove that he is not a target of the investigation".

Why only say "in connection with this appearence"?


He flipped. I'm giving odds. 3 HOURS of testimony? C'mon. Karl joined the dark side.


Definitely, hcow. Probably because his portfolio was narrowed. Has Jason run with that yet.


hcow is so cuddly.


NEW TRADE--On Tradesports, the odds of Libby being convicted on a single count have now hit a new low--31!

Rove is still not onboard anymore.


Snort. I love it when you guys are reduced to Tradesports. LOVE IT.

Rover testified for the 5th time ... Good News, People! Good News!

New WSJ ... Bush down to 36%. Good News! Only off one point from the previous poll! Good News! Good News!

Fitzgerald is a joke! Did you see the jury laugh at him in the George Ryan trial? Good News! Good News!


hcow has it right- Rove got demoted and he's mad as all get out. He flipped on Cheney. Cheney's going to be frog marched. IMPEACH!


36%? It was 32% yesterday. Weird.


OT:Iowahawk does Zarqawi: http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/04/i_hate_email.html


36%? It was 32% yesterday. Weird.

Posted by: Sue | April 26, 2006 at 03:53 PM

Comparing to the previous WSJ poll, sweetie. I'm comparing poll to poll since they use different sampling methods. But if it helps you Bush is down to 40% in Rasmussen which is 1 point above his all time low. Good News! Good News!


As much as it pains me to say it, I believe Fitzgerald will indict Rove.


For most current and accurate poll numbers go to Rasmussen- the fair and balanced poll-takers
Worst poll-takers -always at least 4-6 points off not favoring Bush-Ap/Ipsos
Cnn, ABCNews Nbc poll or CBS polls
-Oh I've just described the MSMImagine that


It could be good news, if the Democrats know how to capitalize on it. So far, they haven't shown they do. Of course, Bush isn't running again and when you do look at the polling on individual seats, people are still pretty happy with their own rep and senators. But yeah, the poll numbers are not good for Bush, but they haven't helped democrats so far.


Journalists Should Be 'Worried'

[Bill] Keller added that "there's sometimes a vindictive tone in the way [administration officials] talk about dragging reporters before grand juries and in the hints that reporters who look too hard into the public's business risk being branded traitors." He warned that journalists possibly are "suffering a bit of subpoena fatigue. Maybe some people are a little intimidated by the way the White House plays the soft-on-terror card. Whatever the reason, I worry that we're not as worried as we should be."

***Perhaps Mr. Keller should rethink the way his paper covered the purported Wilson/Plame leak. It seems to me what's good for the goose, is good for the gander.


I disagree Rove will not be indicted. Fitz can't prove the case he has against Libby. He's Ronnie Earle without the Texas Drawl.


I wasn't expecting a lot of agreement, Maryrose. But I think he will indict. Perjury and false statements. No obstruction (I don't think, he might). It would sure keep Rove from being a friendly witness for Libby, wouldn't it?


He flipped. I'm giving odds.

ok...what odds Mr Cow?

As much as it pains me to say it, I believe Fitzgerald will indict Rove.

oh oh...Sue has flipped!!


But I think he will indict

If he does that's not just jumping the shark ... that's HUMPING the shark.


I believe Fitz really wants to indict Rove. However, this investigation is, in what, it's third year? The case against Rove must be incredibly weak with no indication it is getting any stronger. A forgotten e-mail. Rove probably forgot about the stalker Cooper like a piece of spam or an annoying popup. I just hope Bush fights back and doesn't continue to refer to the partisan Fitzgerald as "dignified."


FWIW, Walton's ruling looks right to me - if Libby can't name the leaker himself, the leaker's identity or existence is irrelevant to Libby's state of mind, which is the purpose for which this evidence would be introduced.

I think there's a good argument that Libby deserves to know UGO's identity. Woodward talked to UGO and later to Libby, and doesn't rule out the possibility he passed along the Plame information. Arguably, UGO's version of the Plame discussion, and Woodward's reaction to it, would be relevent to how likely it is he would have mentioned it to Libby.


::grin:: No, I haven't flipped. I just don't trust Fitzgerald. He is keeping his investigation open in order to limit what he provides Libby, so that may be all today was, a dog and pony show for the judge. But, as Clarice would say, my spidey sense is tingling. I think Fitz will indict to keep Rove and Libby at odds with each other.



Great a prosecutor with teeth. grrrr

Lew Clark

Since this is not about releasing classified information and is all about lying (I know that because Fitzgerald said so), then why aren’t "persons close to the investigation" being indicted. Since they keep lying to reporters on a regular basis.

What has happened since October 2005? How about the real CIA leak investigations, with Ms. McCarthy only the first shoe to drop. Maybe Fitz called Karl in to apologize to him and the White House and tell him he's dropping the whole thing.

Whoa! Was that a pig that just flew over?


Oddly enough, I DO trust Fitzgerald. If we're talking about integrity.

OTOH, he does appear to be goal-oriented to the point of obsession ... to the point of losing track of which forest his tree is in.


The integrity of a loose cannon is not the problem.


An at odds Rove doesn't has the dividend pay-off as keeping others at odds, except for in papers...but in terms of a trial an indicted Rove really does not effect Libby either way.



That is kind of what I meant. It isn't that I think he is up to no good, just not up to good.


Sue- I think I disagree with you for the first time ever.
Actually, I get the feeling that if Fitzgerald could do it over again right now-knowing that UGO was out there- he wouldn't indict Libby.

Here's what Jeff Toobin just said: The higher up you are in Washington, the fewer rights you have. Most private citizens would simply refuse to testify, but that isn't an option for Rove. So he goes in time after time, and the more times you have to testify about the same story, the more you have a chance of not matching what you've said previously. (not a verbatim quote, obviously)
I have to say that if Fitzgerald indicted Rove now on perjury, it would be a real travesty of justice.



It won't bother me a bit if I'm wrong about this. I just don't see Fitzgerald letting Rove go, not when he has Libby sitting there on the same damn thing. Fitzgerald thinks, I think, that there was a conspiracy inside the WH to harm Mighty Joe Wilson. He has bought it, hook, line and sinker. And he thinks Rove is in it. I think he will indict, hoping for a possible flip.


Sue -
I agree Fitz walked into the trap. But I'll bet even he realizes that now. Let's see how he responds to that epiphany.


A story YOU WILL NOT SEE in the LSM:

"Jail time for election sabotage" Milwaukee Cir.CT.Judge Michael Brennan
"threw out a plea agreement imposed jail time on saboteurs who slashed tires on vans set to bring GOP VOTERS to the polls."...Thomas Lifson

Thug sons of thug DEM OFFICIALS are going to jail!


To keep a sense of proportion,could anyone put a figure one what this little "Journey Into the Twilight Zone" has cost?
Would you DOJ allowed a similarly trivial case to run on indefinitely like this?


Aren't we all forgetting that none of these people called to testify are scared teenagers or drug dealers with something to hide and the like. These are high-powered individuals, mostly attorneys in their own right, who aren't going to be intimidated by a mid-level prosecutor, who obviously isn't the brightest bulb on the street.

I don't think it is coincidence the McCarthy leaking has come to light right now. As the Libby investigation has gone forward, all these Plame/Wilson connections have to have come to the surface ... the same connections that are coming out about McCarthy and these have had to raise red flags.

It is the reporters, the MSM in general, and the far left whackos who want and keep insisting that this is a White House problem, but I would be surprised if that is actually where this investigation is centered at this point in time.

I may be way off the mark, but I think if Fitz does have the integrity he is credited with having, and IF, big IF, his own friendships with the CIA cabal aren't blinding him, then there has to be an unraveling of the web of lies that the CABAL foisted on the press and the public.

brenda taylor

i am so sick and tired of yhis prosecutor.fitzgerald just trying to get a couple of big fish no matter what.so we this is what tax payers are paying for.garbage unreal.


I saw that and I couldn't believe my ears -they are actually are going to punish these hooligans. They had a picture of the dem official whose son is going to jail and she was saying she is proud of him for taking his punishment like a man. She should have taught him better. Partisanship and winning elections is not the end all and be all of your life.



I hear you.

I just think the dot-connecting hasn't reached the right level of consciousness yet.

There will be more revelations to come. I'm sure of that and am waiting for the tipping point to be reached.



Larry Johnson has been reminded he signed a contract not to expose details about the CIA to the media without permission


Too funny.

Good for Karl!


Dow closes at 6 year high, unemployment at barely over 4%, and the consumer confidence index at one of its highest since WWII and the left is hanging its hat on the poll numbers of a President who isn't even running again. Pretty stupid political advice coming out of the DNC's Deaniac crew.


I just watched Ari Fleischer on Bill O'Reilly. He doesn't appear to be someone at odds with Bush or the administration.


what me worry?

MITCHELL: What Hillary Clinton is trying to do, clearly, is straddle, straddle the liberal wing of the party that wins primaries—
MATTHEWS: Right. Does a straddler look good?

MITCHELL: —and remain a centrist for the national campaign that she hopes for votes.

MATTHEWS: Who is—who have the American people ever been excited about who's a straddler?

MITCHELL: Well, nobody.




Uh, oh...I may be on his hit list...


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