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April 09, 2006

Comments

Seixon

I think if the FBI wants to clear up this whole thing, all they've got to do is get a warrant to search the premises of the Wilsons' home.

Wilson has changed his story so often that it is almost impossible to keep track of it all.

Something I see as odd is that the CIA did not properly redact the SSCI report, as to easily reveal that it was the Italians they got intelligence on Niger from early on in the end of 2001.

Why? Well think about it. The Plame cell within the CIA could have simply claimed that it was the Italians who gave them the information, instead of... say... the French. That way they cover their tracks and implicate the Italians.

Wilson claimed that his CIA contacts told him about the documents in February 2002. Yet the DO reports officers disputed that, and said that they didn't even have any documents at the time.

There is definitely some funny business going on there, which is why the sloppy redacting of the Italians in the SSCI report is so alarming.

Didn't Plame use to work in France?

Seixon

Heh. eriposte over at Left Coaster called me a GOP liar. I've challenged him to a duel. Bring it on!

boris

eriposte: I debunk thee ! I debunk thee ! I debunk thee ! ... so there ... now you're debunked !

clarice

Rick Moran does a good job on the backdrop--why did the CIA send Wilson who consistently opposed regime change in Iraq? I'm not sure why he throws TM in the mix of those questioning the editorial, but TM did just not the way Rosen et al who are listed do.

kim

Good God, man, don't shoot. They've only got blanks in theirs.
================================

Seixon

Yeah, I'd like to see eriposte answer why Plame and the CIA sent her husband to Niger twice. Well, I'd like to see eriposte actually bring anything to the table. I have a feeling I won't be needing a plate any time soon.

richard mcenroe

"And, you know, Jane Hamsher is really pretty."

But dayyum, that is one ugly spleen.

kim

Don't poke it. It'll turn into two.
===================

MayBee

hilarious, boris!

topsecretk9

Myabee

and dangers of Iraq working on Nukes, and Joe answers the question but mentions nothing about nukes.

yeah, I like how he mocked the previous guys answer too -- Saddams spys-henchmen trying buy bad weaponery? HAH idiots, thats a laugh ! (In that smug, I know Saddam and Iraq better than anyone in the entire world kinda way he does)

This mocking of course comes 7 months after a former Niger official did tell Wilson to his face Baghdad Bob drop into Niger to see if he could buy some yellowcake.

TexasToast

"Wilson is now at the center of a major political maelstrom involving the White House, the C.I.A. and the second gulf war in Iraq. In 2002, at the request of Vice President Dick Cheney, Wilson was assigned by the C.I.A. to investigate claims that Saddam Hussein was seeking to acquire uranium from Niger for the purpose of advancing his nuclear program. When his investigation turned up nothing, Wilson reported back to officials in Washington that there was no basis for the claims."

No one asserts that Cheney did not request that someone be assigned by the CIA to take a jucket to the sun drenched paradise of Niger. The quoted statement does not say that he requested that that someone be Wilson - unless you have an overwhelming desire to read it that way in order to call Wilson a liar. The Niger trip was Cheney's idea - assigning Wilson to be the person to make it was the CIA's.

Gary Maxwell

"At the request" modifies what in the italicized portion you claim I am misreading.

I will tell you that nearly everyone will read it to modify "was assigned"

but go ahead and rewrite it putting the phrase at the correct point where we are suppose to read and understand it and then post it here for us dimwits to better understand.

Sue

The Niger trip was Cheney's idea - assigning Wilson to be the person to make it was the CIA's.

This is news to me. Where do we know that Cheney requested the CIA to send someone, anyone, to Niger?

kim

They are still firing blanks at Seixon over at Left Coaster, and eriposte has gone to ground. It is an interesting little show over there.
===================================

skinnydog

"No one asserts that Cheney did not request that someone be assigned by the CIA to take a jucket to the sun drenched paradise of Niger. The quoted statement does not say that he requested that that someone be Wilson - unless you have an overwhelming desire to read it that way in order to call Wilson a liar. The Niger trip was Cheney's idea - assigning Wilson to be the person to make it was the CIA's."

Not true at all. Cheney never reqeusted a Niger trip of any kind. IIRC, Cheney got a daily breifing with info in it about Iraq buying yellowcake from Niger and his office asked the CIA what they knew about it. The CIA actually answered back fairly quickly that they didn't think there was anything to it. Then becuase the DOD and State as well as the office of the VP were asking about Niger and yellowcake, the CIA decided on their own iniative (spy agencies do that sometimes) to send sowmeone to Niger and that person turned out to be superspy Joe.

boris

Mostly ok skinny but ...

the CIA decided ...

Not through official channels.

spy agencies do that sometimes ...

Unsanctioned rogue operations are not SOP.

danking70

Patton,

"I HAVE ALWAYS WONDERED WHY KHADAFI WAS SO QUICK TO GIVE UP ALL OF HIS PROGRAM WHEN SADDAM WAS OVERTHROWN."

Aside from the AQ Khan network and the North Korea connection, what else have we learned from Khadafi's WMD program?

MJW

I wish I posted a response to MayBee's cite of Wilson's bio when I first saw it last night, because I was going to predict that left-of-center folks would twist the words like pretzels, trying to convince us that they don't mean what they clearly say. TexasToast would have proved my prediction correct.

On this issue, TexasToast is toast. If the quote had been something like, "In response to a request by Vice President Dick Cheney, Wilson was assigned by the C.I.A. to investigate claims that Saddam Hussein was seeking to acquire uranium from Niger," TT's interpretation might be reasonable; or at least not silly. But "at the request of" doesn't leave much wiggle room. Not to mention, as others have pointed out, even if TT's interpretation were correct, it's still contrary to the fact that Cheney never asked the CIA to send anyone to Niger.

topsecretk9

Maybee

I thought I'd pass this on too... the Wilson Bio you found? You can be sure it is Wilson supplied, because it is the same for this speakers bureau too

Leading Authorities, World Class Talent and Creative Media, bio download in right hand corner

MJW

In case anyone missed it, here is a fasinating comment from some time ago by Cecil, showing that the story that Wilson's trip resulted from Cheney's questions is, at best, highly unlikely. It seems the report which inspired the VP's questions was dated Feb. 12, 2002; the same day Plame wrote a memo suggesting her husband for the Niger trip. So either our government is unbelievably efficient, or something else is unbelievable.

Joe Wilson

MayBee,
Who is this Jane Hamster? She sounds like my kind of woman.

MayBee

Interesting, tops!
The more I was reading his bios/old forum transcripts yesterday, the more surprised I was that the CIA had chosen him. He was definitely a 'realist', not a neo-. But more than that, he was a man working for an international/ME business consulting company- and they didn't ask him to sign a non-disclosure agreement? I don't know what they were thinking.

PeterUK

"No one asserts that Cheney did not request that someone be assigned by the CIA to take a jucket to the sun drenched paradise of Niger. The quoted statement does not say that he requested that that someone be Wilson "

Yes, but they probably would have liked value for money,this sounds like the one they got cheap from the brother-in-law.

The mighty CIA,"Your husband is between jobs Val and we are a bit short staffed at the moment,modest expenses and all the publicity he can handle..don't mention our name".

maryrose

Why do we have to continually be subjected to Wilson's lies 24/7? First he is on Wolf Blitzer then Keith Olberman's show. Don't they or their bosses realize he is lying accusing Rove of leaking classified info? It was de-classified. Is Joe a moron about the facts?

kim

Oh God, Peter, they thought it would be good for him to open his mouth. How come he retired in the glory Clinton years? Not enough money?
===========================

topsecretk9

MJW

Thank you for digging that up, I think Sue was asking this question just today

PeterUK

A very interesting connection between Iraqi nuclear ambitions and Rome

PeterUK

Kim,
Obviously if you want to throw ordure at the fan,you need a tool with which to do it.

topsecretk9

WOW, MJW

What a time warp?...I can't believe it was me that spawned the typical amazing catch by Cecil

Well, I guess "What do you know about this" means "asked for and investigation"

Sue

MJW,

Thanks. I thought I remembered something odd about the timing. I wasn't sure where I read it. Should have known it was here with the bestest researchers in the world.

topsecretk9

Sue
I should say, you are the original spawner...I was responding to you.

I love this, by Hitchens today

Sorry everyone, but Iraq did go uranium shopping in Niger.

topsecretk9

oops, Sorry..my link is the same as PeteUK's...I just found out.

Great minds Pete.

larwyn

Wondering why JOE WILSON will be on OLBERMAN TONIGHT
vs
with Chrissy?

Is there too much danger with the Matthews/Russert/Mitchell buddy-buddies?

Or is it just to try to get some ratings?

If Wilson is free at 9PM may he step over to Fox. News will have Hannity to greet him, Fox network will have Jack Bauer. I'm betting on Larry King.

Sue

From Peter and Top's link...

Interagency feuding has ruined the Bush administration's capacity to make its case in public, and a high-level preference for deniable leaking has further compounded the problem.

Ain't that the truth...

Sue

If the parties were reversed, the democrats would be shouting to the rooftop that Saddam tried to purchase uranium from Niger. There is enough evidence in the public record to support the claim, let alone that which we will never see. Funny how politics work. Especially when it comes to national security.

Sue

Something else that struck me as funny today...every word that comes out of Libby's mouth is a lie, unless and until he says something that could damage Bush/Cheney. Then he speaks the truth. ::grin:: I love politics.

PeterUK

Tops,
Can't be said often enough.

"In the late 1980s, the Iraqi representative to the International Atomic Energy Agency—Iraq's senior public envoy for nuclear matters, in effect—was a man named Wissam al-Zahawie."

"In February 1999, Zahawie left his Vatican office for a few days and paid an official visit to Niger, a country known for absolutely nothing except its vast deposits of uranium ore. It was from Niger that Iraq had originally acquired uranium in 1981, as confirmed in the Duelfer Report."

"Time magazine "exclusive" about Zahawie, written by Hassan Fattah on Oct. 1, 2003:

The veteran diplomat has spent the eight months since President Bush's speech trying to set the record straight and clear his name. In a rare interview with Time, al-Zahawie outlined how forgery and circumstantial evidence was used to talk up Iraq's nuclear weapons threat, and leave him holding the smoking gun.

A few paragraphs later appear, the wonderful and unchallenged words from Zahawie: "Frankly, I didn't know that Niger produced uranium at all."

..and the lickspittle cockroaches of the MSM aided and abetted this filthy farrago of lies simply because it suited their political purposes!

topsecretk9

...every word that comes out of Libby's mouth is a lie, unless and until he says something that could damage Bush/Cheney.

Every word that comes out of Wilson, Mitchell, Fitzgerald etc. mouths that is highly questionable (and that list keeps getting longer) should be - dismissed, is misspoken, is misquoted, is misattributed, not the "intention", literary flair, open to interpretation and on and on

topsecretk9

..and the lickspittle cockroaches of the MSM aided and abetted this filthy farrago of lies simply because it suited their political purposes!

-----Can't be said often enough------

Sue

That is what Wilson is referring to, isn't it? He confirmed what other sources already knew. That someone approached Niger officials for trade relations.

Sue

That could be why Joe Baby kept quiet until he was almost certain there was not going to be any uranium found in Iraq. Otherwise, he would have started his campaign earlier, if he truly didn't believe it had happened. Like in September 2002 when the British released their document. Or in December 2002 when State released theirs. He wasn't sure so he waited until May, when it was pretty obvious we weren't going to find anything.

Kate

Was there any discussion today on Rick Moran's posting on Right Wing Nut House. I've read Rick before and he always seems sensible. He seems to think Bush is in trouble for lying to Fitz and obstructing justice. He's taking Jason Leopold as gospel. I thought it might be tongue in cheek, but I don't think so.

PeterUK

Sue,
"The Duelfer Report also cites "a second contact between Iraq and Niger," which occurred in 2001, when a Niger minister visited Baghdad "to request assistance in obtaining petroleum products to alleviate Niger's economic problems." According to the deposition of Ja'far Diya' Ja'far (the head of Iraq's pre-1991 nuclear weapons program), these negotiations involved no offer of uranium ore but only "cash in exchange for petroleum." West Africa is awash in petroleum, and Niger is poor in cash. Iraq in 2001 was cash-rich through the oil-for-food racket,"

Either cash,chick peas or beautiful goats.

topsecretk9

Almost everybody in the world now affects to believe that Saddam Hussein was framed on the Niger rap.

poor, poor Saddam.

larwyn

Per Wilson on Olberman just now:

P-uk's Iraqi rat was "touring to get sanctions on Iraqis right to travel lifted." Wilson referred to the article as proof.

Wilson's proof that his wife was "classified" were:
CIA complaint
Fitzgerald's indictment
PRESS CONFERENCE & filings!

Tomorrow he will used the CNN & MSNBC Teasers as more proof.

Woooof replayed Wilson at 7pm broadcast.
Rove can rest easy - Joe is willing to give up handcuffs when he is frogmarched.

Val

Joe-
Get off the friggen computer and get up here and rub my bunions. Bring me my ciggies and a bourbon on your way. Oh, and put on that outfit I bought you- the pants you have on make you look fat.

Joe Wilson

Won't be a minute Dear,just nipping out to Higer>

Specter

eeewwwwwwwww

clarice

Kate, I don't think he's doing it tongue incheck either. Should we post the Leopold story and discuss it. As far as I can tell it's his same old crap with anonymous sources.

Kate

Clarice-I was very surprised to read that post. Moran must not know Leopold's reputation. Even if the meeting were true, Wilson put how he got to go on the trip in play by claiming Cheney sent him.

Interestingly enough, even though Leopold is always wrong and I suspect his sources include third hand info from Larry Johnson, Moran put an even more negative spin on the story.

He's the first who is hinting that Bush could be guily of obstruction and perjury.

Let's post the article and let others weigh in.

clarice

Go ahead, Kate.

Specter

But Jack is on.....

Kate

The latest from Jason Leopold.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041006Z.shtml

Specter

Leopold is just plain nutz....

MayBee

I read Rick's take and I don't see how Bush is in trouble.
Bush can know about Wilson/Plame, right? He's the President. That doesn't mean he told someone to tell the press, or expected someone to tell the press, or knows who told the press. Ironically, Fitzgerald knows and isn't pressing charges.

Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't see what has Rick Moran so bothered.

clarice

Let the parsing begin--the first graph is that Cheney told Bush in June 2003 that Plame worked at the CIA and ws responsible for Holy Joe's Niger Mission.

It continues:
"This information was provided to this reporter by attorneys and US officials who have remained close to the case. Investigators working with Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald compiled the information after interviewing 36 Bush administration officials over the past two and a half years.

The revelation puts a new wrinkle into Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's two-year-old criminal probe into the leak and suggests for the first time that President Bush knew from early on that the vice president and senior officials on his staff were involved in a coordinated effort to attack Wilson's credibility by leaking his wife's classified CIA status.

Now that President Bush's knowledge of the Plame Wilson affair has been exposed, there are thorny questions about whether the president has broken the law - specifically, whether he obstructed justice when he was interviewed about his knowledge of the Plame Wilson leak and the campaign to discredit her husband."

Whie he tries to slip slide it to make it appear the sources are on Fitz' staff, he says they are "attorneys and US officials who have remained close to the case"

Who could that be?

MayBee

Odd that in his recent Florida speech, Wilson said we now know that the admin started trying IN MARCH to talk about his womanizing and drug-doing.

I think the source is Wilson. Or someone is telling Wilson. I don't know how he now 'knew' any such thing- and then voila! this Leopold story.

topsecretk9

Speaking to college students and faculty at California State University Northridge last week, Wilson said that after President Bush cited the uranium claims in his State of the Union address he tried unsuccessfully for five months to get the White House to correct the record.

"I had direct discussions with the State Department, Senate committees," Wilson said during a speech last Thursday. "I had numerous conversations to change what they were saying publicly. I had a civic duty to hold my government to account for what it had said and done."

Wilson said he was rebuffed at every instance and finally decided to write an op-ed in the New York Times and expose the administration for knowingly "twisting" the intelligence on the Iraqi nuclear threat to make a case for war. The op-ed appeared in the newspaper July 6, 2003. Wilson wrote that had he personally traveled to Niger to check out the Niger intelligence and had determined it was bogus.

"Nothing more, nothing less than challenging the government to come clean on this matter," Wilson said. "That's all I did."

In the interest of fairness, any person identified in this story who believes he has been portrayed unfairly or that the information about him is untrue will have the opportunity to respond in this space.

Good grief, Wilson isn't even hiding his Leopold collaboration anymore...sad when this is your only choice huh?

topsecretk9

MayBee

Get out of my head!

Sue

For 5 months, Wilson is running around talking to State and Senate committees and Fitzgerald continues to say that Wilson didn't identify himself until July 6th? By July 6th, everyone in Washington knew who the envoy was.

clarice

True, July 6 at the witching hour is preposterous. But I can't for the life of me see why a smart guy like Rick is concerned about this article. It seems no diffewrent that 22 to be indicted or Rove about to be indicted or any of the other stories we've been hearing since last October.

Kate

I'm inclined to drop Rick's Blog from my favorites list if Rick is anticipating obstruction of justice and perjury charges against Bush based on a Jason Leopold article.

Really, I think Bush, Cheney had much more on their minds than a mid-level bureaucrat and her hack husband. They had both a war to run.

Rick Ballard

It seems almost coordinated around Fitz's last filing, with the lefty blogs doing a little dance followed by Joe's appearances the last couple of days. The only one out of step is the WaPo - which says enough of this crap.

Interesting. I can't figure Moran's piece out either. Occasionally someone will shoot for irony and miss by a little bit. It sure doesn't tie in to his AT piece this morning.

MayBee

clarice- I can't for the life of me see it either. I don't even think the article actually says what it pretends to say, but I'd love to hear Rick's thoughts.

tops- can't I stay in your head for just a little while?

Joe Wilson

Kate,
This is the fundamental point of the whole matter,Wilson and Plame are important because they say they are.This is an old trick of the MSM,inflate the status or virtue of the alleged victim to make the "crime" seem more heinous.

clarice

I'm utterly baffled.
But then perhaps it's hard for me to see another viewpoint because I've spent so much time reading and analyzing whatever I can about this matter, and it would be hard to see it as other than a serial liar and Clouvert.

topsecretk9

Am I missing something on Rick Moran, granted I didn't read every single word but, I'm getting what you guys are referring to?

topsecretk9

I'm not, I mean.

Oh and according to emptynesters comment section, some one commenting on TM's site was rushing back to ew for a little help

U Can't B Joe Wilson I'm Joe Wilson

What's with all the impersonation of me lately? ::grin::

Kate

Joe-yes, Mary Matalin said that Joe Wilson was 59th of the list of things they were worried about at that time. Really a cipher, an annoyance. A blabbermouth and liar running around spreading falsehoods and he need to be countered, that's all.

larwyn

Is blood thicker than water?

A mole? Sleeper?

Too much "24" for me?

But stranger things have and are happening - Fukuyama's turnabout on Iraq. And now he is claiming that this was always his feeling.

clarice

Taranto is on a roll today--please note the first sentence:
"Yesterday Kerry was on "Meet the Press," where host Tim Russert neglected to press him on his commitment, on the same show 435 short days ago, to release his military records. But there was this enlightening exchange:

Russert: The Boston Globe, your hometown paper, did an article on this subject. They quoted Don Fowler, the former chairman of the Democratic Committee, and he said in the party, "Many in the party remain upset about Kerry's inability in 2004 to refine his policy positions into a coherent vision, a shortcoming that crystallized with his statement that he voted for Iraq war funding before he voted against it." Fair criticism?

Kerry: Well, as I said in the debate with the president, I made a mistake in the way that I talked about the war, but the president made a mistake in going to war. Now, which is worse? I could have done a better job in the campaign explaining what I meant. I voted against it because I believed we should pay for it, and because they didn't have a plan. And our mistake was one of a campaign strategy of not going out and explaining that. I voted out of principle, and I will continue to vote out of principle.

I have a short plan for America, Tim, and I--you know, it's called, "Tell the truth, fire the incompetents, get out of Iraq***, have health care for all Americans." These are pretty simple messages, and they're worth fighting for today.

Wow, it's hard to believe everyone voted against this guy! He should definitely run in 2008."


topsecretk9

Leopold's Love Letter

Sue

The funny thing is...they might actually nominate him again.

Sue

No, scratch that. The funny thing is Kerry thinks they might actually nominate him again.

topsecretk9

I just had this weird Jason Leopold moment...I had forgotten that is was Leopold who was the author of the breathless story about the classified document that proved some faulty procedure (can't remember exactly what) about the Bush Admin and something to do with 9-11 ...

anyways the left-o-sphere went a little nutso over it and and a pretty respected right side blogger (can't remember who) sat down to read the doc, as he was reading through he agreed that some of the content could be breathless...until he came upon the document date and it was in Dec. 2000 and then time stamped the same .... he realized the left and apparently Leopold, couldn't do math because Bush didn't take office until Jan. 2001...he also did an update that he should have known better and considered the source (Leopold, truthout)

Does anyone recall this and the blogger who recorded this hilarious moment?

maryrose

After seeing Kerry on MTP I am amazed so many people ended up voting for him in 2004. The more he talks the less sense he makes. Joe Wilson has the same problem and leaves the same impression. Its too much of a bad thing.

danking70

John Kerry deserves another chance at the office of President. He came so close.

And the more that you make fun, ridicule, mock, and fisk his other-worldly talents when it comes to interviews and cable news show, the LESS HIS CHANCES become for deciding whether to run or not.

Please, I could use the entertainment.

larwyn

Hope you all read Vanderleun's "The Hamlet Men" on Kerry and the Dems. Brilliant.

and Vasko Kohlmayer also contributed a marvelous post to American Thinker today after he saw the MTP Kerry appearance.

Taranto also rocked today on
Fukayama and "propaganda".

Getting hard to keep track of all the tracks lately.

And on CNN and MSNBC they keep pointing out all the American flags at the demos today. Only Fox makes sure you know that the organizers passed them out and told them not to fly the Mexican flags. However, Lou Dobbs pointed out that many of the American Flags
were being flown upsidedown.

Must have been copying Peolosi's Real Security plan.

Jason Leopold

Hi. I'm here to tell all of you that I so enjoy reading these lies about me. It's really great to see that I have all of you wound up. I LOVE IT! I plan on continuing to report this story EVERY DAY. So thanks for givng me great publicity. I especially love Clarice Feldman. She's so crazy insane and funny! Thank you Clarice! Say something else funny!

Jason Leopold

By the way, I wrote a book called NEWS JUNKIE and I ADMIT that I am a recovering drug addict and that I have a felony for grand theft. Feel free to order it on Amazon. So as you can see I've outed myself. Nothing said here really affects me since I put all of the dirt out there already. But again, thanks!

kim

Every shovelful of Plame stuff you write just buries you deeper.
======================================

Neo

There is this reward of ... $5 for the first person who can name one thing, anything, Joseph Wilson found on his 2002 trip to Niger that proved "false" President Bush’s 2003 State of the Union statement, "The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."


Sue

Jason,

If nothing said here affects you, why are you here telling us nothing here affects you?

kim

He couldn't really tell anyone else about it, but it was clearly written in the leaves at the bottom of his cup three distinct times. The meaning of all became clear when .....hey, I just had a thought. I'll bet Joe thought Saddam had nuclear WMD, but also knew about the yellow cake papers way back in Jan and Feb of '03 when he was opposing the war on grounds that Saddam would use his Bio ancd Chem WMD on our troops. He could alert Levin, then when none were found, swing into action with his lie. He probably did hope to preserve his or at least Val's anonymity, but when it started to fall apart in June, and he smelt the lure of fame, he just drove on recklessly and plamed the resulting wreck on the White House. A kamikaze mission really; Joe lives through the need for the disloyal opposition to preserve his meme. No wonder he looks, acts, and talks like a zombie. Pity the children.
===============================

kim

The disjunct between his public persona and his figure as public speaker is too hard to sustain. Surely, he needs a lawyer. The disjunct between his meme and reality in Iraq is increasingly hard to sustain. The Dems need a politician.
====================================

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Wilson/Plame