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April 10, 2006

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boris

that was contradicted by a report

Disputed.

Disputed is not contradictid is not debunked.

clarice

Something like that Cathy though professional courtesy might soften the charge..Though if the call for a correction took days for a response, defense might surely note that somewhere in the pleadings as evidence of carelessness if not intent to harm ..
Rick, this may one of those cases where the reportage is national and changing the venue may not sure the problem.

clarice

**Cure** the problem, that is.

topsecretk9

Makes you wonder if Fitz see the front of the train steaming his way and this was a little Fitzy and Co. last parting shot, huh? Since, you know, he so familiar how this whole "public record" thing works.

kim

Cat mey be out of the bag.
================

topsecretk9

that and his affinity for unilateral determination for creative punishment

clarice

Gary, it is my opinion that no matter the system of justice in play, legal proceedings are always debased when the issue is a political one..Ours is probably the best in the world for ordinary matters but is just as subect to being corrupted on political issues as every other system is.

kim

Someone in the sinestrosphere commented on how quiet Slate, or Salon had been about the WaPo editorial, and I replied that everytime they tried to write something spellchecker shitcanned it and to give them a little time to let the light at the end of the tunnel bear down on them.
=================================

kim

Well, Clarice, a free press would help allow our system to withstand the corruption of politics. Notice the subjunctive?
==================================

Foo Bar

Disputed is not contradictid is not debunked.

Boris,

Take that one up with Cecil, then. He says debunked.

clarice

I have reread the Ledeen piece on Sunday's Linzner and Gellhorn piece. It made me so angry I've written to the editors. If the paper has any integrity it will force them to write a retraction.

cathyf
that seems like a failure of DOD,i.e., a part of the goverment, unlike the CIA, which unambiguously reports to a member of the Bush administration (Rumsfeld).
Foo bar, you keep making odd statements implying some distinction between some agencies being "in government" and other agencies being "in the administration." The DOD reports to the secretary of defense, while the CIA reports to the director of central intelligence (at least before the reorganization.) The SecDef and the DCI, like all of these agency heads, are political appointees (appointed by the president, confirmed by the senate) supervising career civil service employees (who are protected from hire/fire decisions of administrations, ever since a president got assassinated by a frustrated bureaucrat-wannabe.) If you have a point that's different from the erroneous claim that Rumsfeld or Goss or Tennet or whomever is different from the rest and not supervised by elected officials, you'll have to make it more clearly.

cathy :-)

clarice

kim, it could but as we both know the press is part of the problem on these cases with a large political component.

boris

Take that one up with Cecil

So you assume that comment was ONLY for you?

Ok then Cecil ... it's disputed, not debunked. It's more likely mistaken for a weapon, but that's short of proof.

clarice

Enivros have succeeded in halting the big bomb test in Nevada. Pity. That means the only place to test it is Iran.

Foo Bar

Cathyf,

Sorry for not being more clear. You're certainly right that the CIA director serves at the pleasure of the president, but the director is less clearly a political appointee than the e.g. the Secretary of Defense. CIA directors sometimes stay in their jobs for years after a change in the presidency from one party to the other. 2 examples are Tenet and Helms, who served in the 60s and early 70s under both LBJ and Nixon.

So there's definitely a perception of a degree of independence of the CIA from the White House that does not exist for DOD, and that perception has helped the Bush administration a bit in the fiasco over WMD intelligence.

Gary Maxwell

Tenant helped Bush. Well I guess now I have really heard it all.

larwyn

Kim & Kate
"I do think we are watching a political ideology lose its mind. The Kos Dancers. Characteristicly hyperbolic, deluded, nasty. It's a tarentella."

End-Time Panic and The Liberal Ghost Dance
This piece by Robert Godwin of OneCosmos nails
the cultist nature of the Dems and their FarLefters
nicely.

Since I have read it, with each new Flare Up, I can't help but hear the tempo increasing. Funny thing after the Flame Out the beat's even faster.

And you'll love the description of the "CARGO CULT".

The Dems fit both dancing and waiting. The KOSers just keep dancing.

Cecil Turner

while the lead of the WaPo story literally only says that Bush said something that was contradicted by a report in the possession of intelligence officials at the time he spoke

The implication is that Bush is misrepresenting the intelligence, which they exacerbate by downplaying the previous day's CIA report. It's far more misleading than the incident they're reporting on.

and the concession of DIA error is a concession of error on the part of an agency reporting to the Bush administration

Quibbles: My understanding is that DIA funnels intel through CIA, who acts as a clearinghouse. At any rate, the major errors here are clearly CIA. (And they also report to the Administration, so I'm not sure why you want to emphasize DIA anyway.)

it's disputed, not debunked.

Concur. I was sloppy . . . and tired of qualifying every statement. But "disputed" is better.

clarice

For some when their opponent has made a very compelling point, quibbling is the weapon of choice.

Foo Bar

For some when their opponent has made a very compelling point, quibbling is the weapon of choice.

Hey! Am I reading that right? :)

clarice

You think I can get in your head? What, I'm Comey or something?

cathyf

Comey in Fitzgerald's head... eeeewwwwwww

(I think I've been affected by Harry Potter!)

cathy :-)

Rick Ballard

I wonder if Tom's Hazmat suit failed? Has he been heard from since he took off to visit the lefty bogs?

clarice

No, he hasn't!

Still don't know when the date for the dismissal motion hearing is. The Administrative judge's clerk said I can take notes, but no electronic devices are allowed in the courtroom and there is no wi fi in the bldg. Maybe you or Thom will be available that day and I can phone it is..we can replay "Front Page"

Foo Bar

You think I can get in your head? What, I'm Comey or something?

My apologies. Stupid question ;). OK, well, in the absence of further elaboration on your part, I will choose to read it a particular way without asking for any such elaboration. :)

OK. Enough for now. Maybe I should try to get some actual work done today.

<NonPartisanComment>
Given the volume of comments during the workday, I am impressed that all you JOM regulars have retained your jobs.
</NonPartisanComment>

cathyf
The Administrative judge's clerk said I can take notes, but no electronic devices are allowed in the courtroom
Can you try to find an autistic person to take along who will be able to give you an exact transcript when it is over?

cathy :-)

larwyn

KOS goes down in defeat again and he knows it. Another stick in the hornets nest.
Excellent examples of Ghost Dancing and Cargo Culting by

JAMES TARANTO TODAY:

The Angry Left Loses Again
T: "It won't be official until June, but Democrat Francine Busby--championed by MoveOn.org, Daily Kos, et al.--appears headed for defeat in her bid for California's 50th Congressional District, left vacant by the resignation of Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham. Although Busby finished first in yesterday's special election, she failed to break 50%, which means she will face a runoff against the second-place finisher. If current results hold, that will be former congressman Brian Bilbray, who has 15.15% of the vote."

T:"Busby won 43.92% of the vote as of the latest tally, but she was one of only two Democrats on the ballot (the other got just 1.32%). Fourteen Republicans divided up a majority of the vote, and it seems highly unlikely that Busby will be able to manage a runoff majority in this GOP district....."
...........
KOS agrees:
The Democrats had everything going for them in this election. They had a corrupt felon-incumbent, they had low turnout, they had a well-financed challenger, and they had a divided Republican field. They had a district that has, in the last 10 years, skewed Republican less and less. And they only managed to get about 8% more of the vote when they needed 14% more. In 2004, Busby pulled in 36%. This time around she won 43.9%.

My sense of pessimism for November's elections only gets deeper the more elections show lower and lower turnout.

T:"This seems right to us. Democrats keep hoping they'll win by default, and maybe they eventually will. But Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich did not win by default, though the public was quite dissatisfied with Democrats in 1980 and 1994 and with Republicans in 1992. They won by offering an appealing alternative."

And here is their Senate Leader:


"The Washington Post's Al Kamen quotes form a speech by the Senate minority leader during the immigration debate last week (last item, ellipsis in original):"

"Mr. President, no matter how many times I call this lectern a car, it does not matter, this is not a car," Reid said. "This is a lectern, used here in the Senate for us to put our papers on and deliver a speech. This is not a car. If I come to the Senate floor and, day after day, hour after hour, call this a car, it is not a car. It is a lectern. If I come to this Senate floor day after day and say what the Democrats have done is unusual, unwarranted, unbelievable, it is wrong, it is as wrong as this lectern being called a car. "

. . . The leader and I have gone back and forth so many times today that we
are beating paths to our offices. There is no need that we--I apologize to the chair and to Senator Byrd. I hope he's not watching. My BlackBerry. It went off a couple times, and I lost my concentration. I hope this legislation will move forward tomorrow. I know people feel that this lectern is a chair, but it is not. This is the Senate."

"Who says the Democrats don't offer a clear alternative?"...Taranto


Wonder how long they were holding that old news re the mobile labs - must have a little "pile" of those stories ready to cover any bad news for their side. WH Press corp got to do another frenzy, they are Ghost Dancers too.


cathyf

Did that do it?

cathyf

larwyn, what do you use for italics? Giving a pair of </i>'s didn't do any good.

cathy :-)

clarice

cathyf

I'll try </em>'s

Rick Ballard

Cool - we can do it like the pros. I can get about 98% of it written this afternoon. Let's see - I need to work on some adjectival constructs and rev up the metamixer.

Slacked jawed, dull eyes, hesitating voice, his hands fidgeting nervously as he listened, oddly dressed for such an important appearance, occasionally perplexed expression, marked by uncertainty, furtively glanced, continually scratching.

I probably need to work on some negative stuff, too.

Sue

Larwyn,

Where did you get that? Can you link it?

clarice

Rick! Pure genius..

Barney Frank

Sue,

Taranto:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110008222

Barney Frank

Or just go to opinionjournal. Its the lead.

clarice

Daily Howler on how the leftosphere cites lies approvingly and ignores those things which clear Bush in the Fitz filing.http://www.dailyhowler.com/

With Kaus that makes two honest men on the other side of the aisle.

Sid

Fritz says “the record is in the public domain for DOJ to use to supervise me”

Libby was the first…
Damage to all our security…
Joe Wilson was not publicly identified until….
Plame was classified…
(If) Ms. Plame was covert in the last five years… (Miller Judge bought this hook, line, and sinker)
Libby testified “Key Judgment”…

Motion:
1. Defense (only) will be allowed to introduce any newspaper articles and editorials (Official DOJ reviewable case record) with equal weight as GJ testimony.

2. Fritz will be charged with perjury (lying to two, or more federal judges).

3. All GJ testimony and evidence will be turned over to defense since prosecution cant accurately read or write the actual text of said testimony and evidence.

cathyf

Sue, and anyone else who doesn't know about opinionjournal, it's a must-go-to bookmark every day. It's free, and most of the editorial and opinion columns from the WSJ dead tree edition end up there. And you get a daily dose of Taranto's snark. Because of his placement, he is probably by far the most-read blogger on the Internet. Since it's an MSM site, nobody ever counts him, but he is clearly a blogger in all of blogging's funny, snarky, crotchety, quirky glory.

cathy :-)

clarice

Heh! At a minimum some of that will be certainly used in the responsive filing re the Motion to Compel to show how he has publicly and in his pleadings shown he cannot be trusted to honestly review the record ...

Sue

Barney & Cathy,

Thanks.

larwyn

Michael Barone and Melinda Hennenberg(sic & I have not idea who she is) just on FOX.

Barone was very clear and hard on Fitz.

Melinda, in normal Dem spokes"person" hysteria threw everything she could mouth, it one of those litanies that cuts into the opposition's face/talk time.
Per Melinda, this wasn't really important, it is the TRUTH, TRUTH THAT IS IMPORTANT. Colin Powell just said the Nuke threat wasn't imminent. Blah blah blah.

Barone, visually annoyed, that she was going on and on said, Melinda, you miss the point and the facts "when you smooch it all together"

Barone pointed out that MSNBC was using false items and reporting.

MELINDA STICKING WITH:
"FAKE BUT ACCURATE"

larwyn

Michael Barone and Melinda Hennenberg(sic & I have not idea who she is) just on FOX.

Barone was very clear and hard on Fitz.

Melinda, in normal Dem spokes"person" hysteria threw everything she could mouth, it one of those litanies that cuts into the opposition's face/talk time.
Per Melinda, this wasn't really important, it is the TRUTH, TRUTH THAT IS IMPORTANT. Colin Powell just said the Nuke threat wasn't imminent. Blah blah blah.

Barone, visually annoyed, that she was going on and on said, Melinda, you miss the point and the facts "when you smooch it all together"

Barone pointed out that MSNBC was using false items and reporting.

MELINDA STICKING WITH:
"FAKE BUT ACCURATE"

jean

thank you for all the comments, research, and time thar has put into the posts on this site. I have been following JOM since all this plame stuff started and have learned so much. I probably won't post again,but wanted you ya'll to know you have really help my understanding of whats going on. thank you again can't wait for the court date. jean

Barney Frank

OT, but about opinionjournal.
There's an excellent article by Richard Lindzen on intimidation of global warming critics.

Now back to Libby for the smart set here.
I'm working with my own lawyer today on a brief. Libby must be having such fun. Course his lawyers cost a lot more.:)

larwyn

Clarice,
This is a test of time to post and get back on/reload.
I see the double post _ this time I was thrown to an error page after I hit Post. And then used the retry & got back to JOM
WILL ONE OF OUR LEADERS PICK
A LESS FULL THREAD -
We're as crowded as downtown LA
was yesterday!

larwyn

A 7 minute round trip for a dial-upper!

SOMEONE HELP.

larwyn

A 7 minute round trip for a dial-upper!

SOMEONE HELP.

Gary Maxwell

Larwyn

You are stuttering! Typepad needing another burnt offering? Can we offer up Jeff?

Rick Ballard

Well, this thread will load the quickest. I must say I was quite taken aback by the title, having missed the T in my first quick glance.

clarice

It is difficult larwyn. I'm finding it troublesome, too.The Help Wanted thread is quite bare--Will someone post a MOVING sign and we'll all go there?

clarice

OKAY--the Sullivan thread it is

MOVING__ALL POSTERS WE HAVE MOVED TO THE SULLIVAN THREAD>>http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/04/more_thumping_o.html#comments

maryrose

Matthews on Hardball issues correction update with Schuster but says Cheney had his finger on the scale promoting war in i Iraq. Said Powell and State Dept. weren't buying it

Spiker555

"Fitzgerald is unsupervised". If he is unsupervised, then does that make him liable? I wonder if Libby's lawyers...had a serious chat with Fitz and that Libby's lawyers could go after Fitz with a lawsuit?

Beto Ochoa

Looks like I've got the room to myself.

kim

With you to complete the view.
====================

Beto Ochoa

Remember the thug with McKinny who threatened to arrest the FOX reporter trying to ask her some questions? Turns out he's not a police officer and will be pursued for charges of impersonation of a peace officer?
The Fraternal Order of Police is going after him and McKinny.

Jeff

Wow, does Gary lack any and all grace. As for Fitzgerald, he acted quickly and correctly, as far as correcting the record goes. It's an important screwup, if you think like me the purported lie (or instruction to lie) was important. If you thought the initial claim about Cheney instructing Libby to lie about the NIE was trivial, then I don't see what problem you could have with Fitzgerald: he missed a trivial matter, and corrected it as soon as he saw it being blown up by various media outlets.

Jeff

Also, it seems pretty clear that Fitzgerald correction is neither here nor there with regard to his case against Libby (though how pissed the judge will be remains to be seen). But the uncorrected versus the corrected statement make no difference to the case Fitzgerald will be making against Libby in the trial. Still, given how serious the claim was, it was a bad mistake.

Sue

Jeff,

You are a dollar late and a half day short of making that point. It is all over the left blogosphere. The central point remains. Forget the little mix up with wording. Side tracked but not derailed.

Specter

Well....wow.

I have been busy for two days and just now caught up with this massive missive. But it was interesting watching the ebb and flow of the arguments - especially since I had already read the news articles about Fitz correcting himself. It was like a movie - knowing something was going to happen to certain posters when their arguments came crashing down.

At any rate - I hope to never get this far behind again.

Jeff - kudos to you for your admissions. You are right that Fitz corrected it. There are just two problems - he is not a backwoods operation and every word means something. Second - even though it was just a mistake, it set off another round of accusations and that was not particularly forgivable.

BTW all - Rsamussen did not update today, but yesterday Bush was at 43%.

Arbuckle

PeterUK wrote: "German invasion of Russia commenced December the 18 1940" -- Actually it was June 22, 1941 -- Just to correct the record. But more generally, and having read a little history, comparing Germany and Japan post-WWII with Iraq today doesn't clarify anything one way or another.

hcow

Specter, The lowest bush EVER got in Rasmussen was 40%, and he has been hanging around the 40-43% neighborhood for the last month. Gimme a break.

Specter

Sorry to burst your bubble hcow. Too bad. BTW - if you think other polls are really, really accurate then I suggest that you try looking at the demographics. As has been pointed out over and over, especially for ABC, IPSOS, Pew, etc. is that the polls oversample Democrats by a large percentage. And then report on it. So here is how it works - MSM runs a week of articles like they did about the Bush and CHeney "leak" and then they take a poll. Doesn't matter that the articles were biased and basically wrong. Then the poll numbers dip. Wow...really need experts to tell me how that worked. Why just a month ago we had two polls in two days where the approval rating of Bush was 7% or 8% different. Are you going to try and tell me that the American public swings that fast?

Give ME a break. Try looking at things objectively once in a while rather than from the POV of la-la land.

George - Where is my money?

boris

But more generally, and having read a little history, comparing Germany and Japan post-WWII with Iraq today doesn't clarify anything one way or another.

Of course not. How could it possibly relate to the follwing claim ...

you can't plant democracy from outside by invading and occupying a country

Why its its ... its totally irrelevant !!!

They don't speak German in Iraq.

Also Iraq IS NOT EVEN AN ISLAND YOU FRAKKIN FEEBS !!!

And besides everybody knows that Germany and Japan were a complete cakewalk compared to Iraq.

Anybody who actually READ SOME HISTORY would know that.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame