JustOneMinute: Ambiguous DNA At Duke?

Ambiguous DNA At Duke?

The Duke lacrosse debacle is back in the news. Here is the excited lead:

Prosecutors believe they have DNA evidence to tie a third Duke Lacrosse player to the alleged attack of a 27-year-old dancer, sources close to the investigation tell ABC News.

Those sources say the third player is the same person who was identified with "90 percent" certainty by the alleged victim in a photo lineup conducted by police weeks after the March 13 off-campus lacrosse team party where the alleged incident took place.

Eventually we get to the backpedaling:

The potential evidence — a DNA sample linked to the lacrosse player that was found under a fake fingernail worn by the alleged victim — was recovered from the off campus home where the alleged attack took place. The "press on'' nail was found in a garbage can in that house, sources close to the investigation told ABC News.

...

The Durham Herald Sun newspaper reports today the tissue sample used for testing did not allow for a 100 percent match, but that it is "consistent" with the DNA of the third player. Because a complete DNA pattern was not obtained from the sample on the fingernail, it was impossible to match that sample with near certainty to the third player, the newspaper says.

That newspaper's reporting largely mirrors what sources close to the investigation have told ABC News. When pressed, however, those sources would not say there was a perfect match between the third player and the sample tested.

Defense sources said the results from an initial round of DNA testing failed to produce any DNA evidence. They point out, to this day, no DNA evidence matching lacrosse players has been found on the alleged victim. They insist that results from this set of DNA tests are also inconclusive and that there is no match, and that to say otherwise is "very misleading."

They also say it would not be unusual to find players' DNA in the bathroom or garbage can of a house where some of them lived and many others spent time.

The defense will almost certainly argue that these new DNA results should not be permitted in court, since they are not a perfect match. In cases where DNA evidence is not a perfect match it is sometimes considered inadmissible as evidence.

Oh, boy. Here is the lead to the Durham Herald Sun version:

Tissue found under the fingernail of an exotic dancer who claimed she was raped at a Duke University lacrosse party may match a player who was there, several well-placed sources said Wednesday.

Analyzing the tissue, scientists concluded it came from the same genetic pool and was "consistent" with the bodily makeup of one of 46 lacrosse players who gave DNA samples for testing, the sources said.

At the same time, scientists ruled out a possible match with any of the other 45 students, according to the sources.

If accurate, the fingernail tissue match would offer the first DNA evidence potentially linking the dancer and an alleged attacker.

But because a complete DNA pattern was not obtained from the tissue, it was not possible to match it with the nearly 100 percent certainty that DNA results usually offer, the sources added.

As a bonus point - tissue under a fingernail would presumably be interpreted as a sign of a struggle, or scuffle, or whatever. Obviously, that seems to be consistent with the rape allegation, but other explanations are certainly plausible - in an argument over money, for example, one of the players may have been scratched.

Maybe the DA will get some convincing evidence at some point. But while he works on that, a defense witness is alleging police intimidation:

A Durham police detective investigating the Duke University lacrosse case arrested an alibi witness Wednesday on a 2 1/2-year-old misdemeanor warrant.

Taxi driver Moezeldin Elmostafa said Investigator R.D. Clayton and another officer asked whether he had anything new to tell them about the rape case before driving him to the Durham County jail. He said no and was held for five hours, until a friend posted his bail on a shoplifting charge.

Ernest Conner, a Greenville lawyer who represents defendant Reade Seligmann, said the cabbie's arrest amounted to intimidation. "It appears to me they are trying to pressure a witness who supports our defendant's rock-solid alibi," Conner said.

I think it is great the police can clear up these seemingly cold misdemeanor cases

Posted by Tom Maguire on May 11, 2006 | Permalink

Comments

free Elmo now!

Posted by: windansea | May 11, 2006 at 10:46 AM

Mr Square I cannot decipher your code

Posted by: windansea | May 11, 2006 at 10:47 AM

yeah...and get me an egg roll to go with that. and a pepsi.

Posted by: bruce lee | May 11, 2006 at 10:48 AM

I am deleting that first entry (which for late-comers is about fifty lines in what appears to be Chinse symbols) rather than risk hosting the entire NSA encryption protocol. Or the Chinese one, for that matter.

Posted by: Tom Maguire | May 11, 2006 at 10:56 AM

Should be interested in court:

"Is this sample a match for the defendant's DNA?"

"This sample is consistent with the defendant's DNA."

"Is it a match?"

"It's consistent."

"Then you will state that this sample absolutely came from the defendant."

"It certainly could have."

"Did it?"

"It's possible."

"And it's just as possible it didn't?"

"It could be."

"Do you say it did?"

How long do you think that could go on before the judge gets pissed, the gets bored, and the defense moves to exclude or requests the judge to treat the witness as non-responsive?

Posted by: richard mcenroe | May 11, 2006 at 11:04 AM

Durham Herald looks pretty rabid and partisan. Hopefully Duke will stop buying any ads in the Herald, and urge its employees, students, vendors, etc. to take their business elsewhere.

Leak by the DA to the Herald looks pretty offensive, along with arrest of the taxi driver. Vindictive prosecution arguments are gaining credibility with this taxi driver arrest and recent prosecution of the 23 year old team captain.

(Glad to see the Judge would not play along with Nifong, and only fined the captain $100, since the captain had already done his community service and met the financial terms of his deal.)

What is with the magistrates in Durham? Are they elected? The most recent flaky rape allegation at Duke (lesbian who woke up out of a drunken/THC stupor and concluded her escort left his semen in her while she was unconscious) is talked about by the magistrate. Since when do judicial figures give news interviews about pending cases??

Recent comments by DA Nifong about trial not until next spring and the possibility of an evidentiary hearing before trial suggests he is fishing for some sort of face-saving deal (conspiracy to threaten?) short of trial.

If it were my son, would I want him "betting the farm" on an all or nothing "no sex" defense in front of a Durham judge and a Durham jury? Is there a judge assigned for all purposes who will try the case and hear the pretrial motions? We may find out on May 15. If the Judge were a Nifong clone, a deal for conspiracy to threaten might make sense.

Duke as an institution really shot itself in the foot by not tactfully promoting the idea of voting Nifong out of office.

Also, Duke did a less than perfect Bowen&Chambers report, which failed to explain why B&C did not interview the AV, the Durham police, or the DA (probably concerns about not appearing to tamper or obstruct).

Some reason should have been given in the B&C report for not getting as close as possible to the source of the "20 people raped me" comment. Unexplained B&C reliance on double hearsay is a flaw.

Posted by: cfw | May 11, 2006 at 11:52 AM

I suspect this (and commented at Brainster)...

The "press on'' nail was found in a garbage can in that house,

As a bonus point - tissue under a fingernail would presumably be interpreted as a sign of a struggle, or scuffle, or whatever.
I think many female commenters here would agree with me that it is more suspect that a Lee Press On nail stay on with NO STRUGGLE, or it would be a shock if say a person was intoxicated and sort of stumbled catching a fall with a hand full of Lee's-- the nails stayed on.

Remember they said when she arrived she was missing nails? And then she had in pictures pink nail polish all over her?

I commented that for that many nails to have come off (remember you need a jackhammer to remove acrylic nails) that she was most likely wearing Lee Press On nails that as a rule pop off, oh about, every other minute doing absolutely nothing.

The reports indicate that she went to the bathroom to attend to her nails and no offense but deciding to paint nails at such an inopportune time is consistent with wacky intoxicated behavior/rationale ... and would also --to me anyways-- explain the extra annoyance of the players...

"Oh great, she gets here toasted, late and now she's in the bathroom painting her nails!" type of thing

Posted by: topsecretk9 | May 11, 2006 at 12:27 PM

Hmmm.

Just a question about the "20 rapists" thing.

From what I understand the source of this quote is a Duke campus police officer overhearing a Durham police officer's private phone conversation. I also understand that any number of people, including Durham's mayor, have stated that relying on this hearsay is wrong.

What I haven't yet heard is that this allegation is false. That the accuser specifically did NOT assert that there were 20 rapists.

Has that been confirmed? That the police or DA have stated explicitly that the accuser did not make that allegation?

Frankly there's so much complete crap floating around on this case that it's hard to separate the kernels of truth.

Posted by: ed | May 11, 2006 at 12:29 PM

sorry, I "Larwyn'd" the thread.

Posted by: topsecretk9 | May 11, 2006 at 12:29 PM

The reports indicate that she went to the bathroom to attend to her nails and no offense but deciding to paint nails at such an inopportune time is consistent with wacky intoxicated behavior/rationale ... and would also --to me anyways-- explain the extra annoyance of the players...

Or behavior indicating another engagement at a different location...would explain her lapse in time that hasn't been explained...

Posted by: Sue | May 11, 2006 at 12:37 PM

Well, yeah, but, careful. Don't join the kangeroo-leaps of PC'ed-ness. Despite the messy police work, two details are still out there. Did she drink on the premises and do non-organic items leave DNA?

Posted by: JJ | May 11, 2006 at 12:48 PM

It will probably turn out that the DNA is "consistent" with a large proportion of white males in the United States. This seems to be another example of Nifong trying to build a case on a foundation of nothing.

Posted by: Ahrimahn | May 11, 2006 at 01:12 PM

What's amazing to me is how many people think the innocent unless proven guilty rule is inapplicable in rape cases.

And perhaps we ought to have a special club for such prosecutors with Earle and Nifong and Fitz as charter members.

Posted by: clarice | May 11, 2006 at 01:17 PM

A little bit of DNA found under one nail, and it does not match either of the two guys charged with rape. If you are fighting as she claimed to police, how likely is it that you only get DNA from one person and under one nail only. What supports her story in this at all?

Posted by: Gary Maxwell | May 11, 2006 at 01:53 PM

It will probably turn out that the DNA is "consistent" with a large proportion of white males in the United States

DNA is suppose to be conclusive. Better than fingerprints which have to be interpreted and can be altered by the way they are left or collected. Consistent is another way of saying "maybe maybe not."

Posted by: Gary Maxwell | May 11, 2006 at 01:55 PM

I hear Nifong is going to charge some players with "misure of the Duke meal card." No shit. That should be a hanging crime in Durham county.

Posted by: Gary Maxwell | May 11, 2006 at 01:57 PM

Hmmm.

And about that arrest of the taxi cab driver.

Why exactly was this guy arrested when it was such a minor charge? Why wait 2.5 years? And why the heck would there be a charge out there anyways for this guy?

Didn't he cooperate with the shoplifting investigation?

Posted by: ed | May 11, 2006 at 02:21 PM

The case is full of holes.

The first DNA report came back NEGATIVE.

This one comes back "inconclusive."

The lineup SHOULD be rejected out of hand, because it didn't follow LAW. It was a setup. AND, if it sticks for the trial, then these poor fellas go through the slow-mo and expensive process of APPEAL.

Is this the edge? Martha Stewart threw in the towel? This makes lawyers proud? How so?

The false nail was found in the garbage. So there was tossed garbage in the bag. And, yes, if you took the whole bag there would be DNA samples of everybody who was at the house.

A good defense lawyer will bat these charges out of court.

AND?

Well then it gets interesting for the DOOFUS TAXPAYERS. Because if NiFong is proven guilty of a hatchet job, at some place forward, the taxpayers cough up. And, then they pay for the stupidity of electing this jerk in the first place.

Hey, it could happen in Austin! You think Tom DeLay is without a case against Ronnie Earle? Excuse me. But there's some news that gets ratcheted up when the Civil Court tit gets squeezed. By lawyers.

Just like "class action suits" there are millions ahead for da lawyers. Lot'sa loot. Made up of cash taken from the taxpayers.

And, ya know what? I wouldn't just not care, I'd laugh. Some votes, when they get tallied do show that some constituencies are stupider than dumb rocks.

Posted by: Carol Herman | May 11, 2006 at 02:36 PM

"It will probably turn out that the DNA is 'consistent' with a large proportion of white males in the United States. This seems to be another example of Nifong trying to build a case on a foundation of nothing."

Note that Nifong (or those with him) have helped prejudice potential jurors with flaky DNA evidence.

With this tidbit, rabid NCCU/Black Panther folks (the 1% fringe) can go on with their "try them for what they did for 400 years" rhetoric.

Does not speak well for the state (for appointing N) or the city (for electing N) or Duke (for showing a bit too much political apathy).

Posted by: cfw | May 11, 2006 at 03:13 PM

I cannot see a single good reason for the areest of the cabbie witness except to frighten him and others so they will not cooperate with the defense. The entire case is an outrage.

Posted by: clarice | May 11, 2006 at 04:16 PM

I hope DOJ is keeping its eye on this case.
Of course, I do not kniw if the Civil Rihts Division is much interested in white defendents. Unless of course they get off.

Posted by: davod | May 11, 2006 at 07:54 PM

Sorry for the spelling errors. Entry should read:

I hope DOJ is keeping its eye on this case.
Of course, I do not know if the Civil Rights Division is much interested in white defendents. Unless they are found not guilty.

Posted by: davod | May 11, 2006 at 07:58 PM

Hmmm.

Just watched a segment on Hannity & Colmes.

Do they actually read anything or do any sort of research at all?

They seemed to be completely accepting of the questionable "evidence" and quite frankly putting a lot of emphasis on the Lee press-on nails.

Sorry but finding DNA on an object, the Lee press-on nail, that sat in a bathroom trashcan isn't all that surprising. Now if they found DNA on the nail that wasn't on anything else in the trashcan, now that's something.

It would also be something if they could definitively connect the DNA to a specific person.

So far most of this case looks like garbage.

Posted by: ed | May 11, 2006 at 09:40 PM

If 'consistent' DNA had been found under her real nails, that might have had some minor evidentiary value. But it was found on discarded nails in a trash can.

If a lacrosse player tossed a wet kleenex into the trash, that would be sufficient to implicate him. But the actual kleenex, or the presence of his DNA on other particles of trash, would cancel its value. Has the DA saved the entire contents of that trash can?

Here's my cynical guess: No.

Posted by: lyle | May 12, 2006 at 12:44 AM

TS,
It is nice to know that even while I was having aol problems, in the throes of reaction to new brand of allery med, and taking care of other issues, I have not been forgotten.

sorry, I "Larwyn'd" the thread.

Posted by: topsecretk9 | May 11, 2006 at 09:29 AM

Do you think that if "fisking" every gets put in dictionary, they'll add larwyn'd? Missed fame and fortune, but now could live on in minor infamy.
========================
On Duke,
This is such a travesty. I certainly hope that the team members have been able to study and take there semester finals.
Can you imagine the distress of the parents, paying all that money -they are not all RICH BOYS.
I'd really like to know and I think that someone should do an article on how many 2nd mortgages were taken to pay for a son's school.
Sure all that will come out in the civil case.
Also wish we knew what majors
are involved. If any of these boys are in a science/math based major like engineering, they could not have been able to give their course work full attention. Lord they had to flee campus. Will they end up with F's to complete this "guilty and punished BEFORE A TRIAL".

Of course, he didn't inhale - but he did admit to trying some weed.

Anyone out there who went to college and lived on/off campus that NEVER HAD A BEER BEFORE LEGAL AGE????

I grew in surronded by my mother's Italian side relatives.
Holidays we were given tiny glasses of homemade wine, Italian champagne =Asti Spumonte (sic), little sips of Strega. When I was 17/18 and we were at the lake, I was allowed a small glass of beer. I was never drunk, and certainly a very good/moral girl, but I would have a glass of beer at school at parties before I turned 21. However, I never lit nor touched any illegal drug and avoided all who did.

Posted by: larwyn | May 12, 2006 at 01:32 AM

Larwyn,

Are you kidding? You have a special place in my heart granny girlfriend! and you are hard to forget...

Posted by: topsecretk9 | May 12, 2006 at 01:41 AM

If it was a struggle, there would likely be enough tissue to make a complete sequence.

Posted by: Wickedpinto | May 12, 2006 at 02:21 AM

Hmmmm.

What I find curious is the vast importance being put on the Lee press-on nails being found in the trashcan. Frankly I've known a few women who wore those things, I live in NJ so that goes without saying, and those things generally don't stay on worth a damn.

Another thing that's curious is the issue of the accuser's handbag and cellphone being left in the house. *shrug* wasn't she suffering from the effects of alcohol or drugs when she left? Is it that impossible for someone either drunk or under the influence of drugs to forget something?

Personally I don't use drugs and rarely drink alcohol and I still leave my wallet and cellphone at the office on far too many occasions.

*shrug* perhaps she was attacked, but nothing that has come out so far is definitive in supporting that allegation.

Posted by: ed | May 12, 2006 at 08:26 AM

I hate to be so cynical, but does "found under the nail" have a different meaning than "the sample was attached to the nail"? How far away is "under"?

Posted by: htom | May 12, 2006 at 01:26 PM

I heard a discussion by two DNA forensics guys concerning the significance of "consistent" DNA. Both said they can't determine the significance without more info. They said that a complete match requires 13 out of 13 "loci." If you have six or fewer loci, there is no significance at all. But if you have, say, 12 of the 13, you can conclude that the probablilities are extremely high--in the billions, as opposed to trillions.

Posted by: Other Tom | May 12, 2006 at 02:30 PM

I have had DNA testing done for genealogical purposes. We had originally paid for a 13 marker test and them upgraded to a 24 marker test. It confirmed a brother to great great great grandfather and thus added another branch of six or more genrations to the family. I thought the 13 marker test was not very precise that is why we ultimately upgraded but I will concede my meory is fading on the event although it was pretty exciting at the time. BTW it does not take much DNA to allow this testing. So if the limitation here was a minuscule amount of DNA not allowing extensive testing, we are not talking about much of a scratch. or maybe as someone else said, he blew his nose on a tissue that was thrown together in the wastebaste with the nail.

Posted by: Gary Maxwell | May 12, 2006 at 02:48 PM

And now we have report that semen was collected from the "victimZ" and it did not match any of the players. Could Nifong hope even in Olestraville to find a jury willing to convict anyone on this "crime". I am disgusted.

Posted by: Gary Maxwell | May 12, 2006 at 11:30 PM

Hmmm.

IMHO this case is such a dog that if there were a high order probability of a match then Nifong would have found a way to include it in the official report.

And that official report wouldn't have been released at 5pm on a Friday.

Posted by: ed | May 13, 2006 at 12:26 AM

and those things generally don't stay on worth a damn.

No they don't...they are joke, a teenage sales gimmick and certainly not tipsy proof - as in one fall and they flip off

Some were missing when she got there and then she went into the bathroom to re-STICK them on, had a great idea to start painting them to boot...and got finger nail polish all over her body in the process --ahem toasted--ahem

Posted by: topsecretk9 | May 13, 2006 at 01:00 AM

Durham Herald-Sun is run by a bunch of tarholes (University of North Carolina alumns). Nifong is also afflicted. Herald-Sun recently purchased by Kentuckians. I had dismissed this line of reasoning, but I'm starting to wonder. It was disheartingning, to say the least, to see my adopted hometown re-nominate-elect this tool.

Posted by: Garry McMinds | May 14, 2006 at 11:21 PM

disheartening
jeez

Posted by: Garry McMinds | May 14, 2006 at 11:22 PM

With the taste of his own foot still lingering in his mouth, District Attorney Mike Nifong has another piece of evidence blow up in his face, I wonder how's his ulcer is doing?

So would it be his own aura or is it the universe's way of getting back at Nifong for destroying these young boys lives?

It would be funny if Nifong's ulcer leads to a colonoscopy, or would it be “ironic” or “poetic justice” that he screws 47 boys over a false rape claim and have to take a 36 inch colonoscopy tube up his @ss for his part in the fiasco he created.

They are innocent! The drunken black stripper with the long criminal record and history of making false accusations...lied.

• Stripper made a false claim of rape by three boys in 1996.
• Stripper made a false claim of kidnapping in 1998
• Stripper charged with larceny, auto theft, and trying to kill a police officer in 2002
• 1st round of DNA shows no link to the lacrosse team.
• 2nd round of DNA shows no link to the lacrosse team
• DNA proves stripper had sex with boyfriend/pimp which accounts for the “rape kit” evidence of recent sexual activity.
• Innocent boy who picked up finger nail and threw it in the trash left his DNA on the fake press-on nail and will be charged for rape.

The stripper’s account of the night has serious integrity issues:
1) First she claimed 20 boys raped her, then she narrowed it down to 3 in a bathroom

a. The bathroom is absolutely and completely devoid of any evidence of a rape. Where is her DNA? Urine, blood, vaginal fluid, saliva, or tears?
b. Many people’s DNA were found under her nails but none from the innocent lacrosse boys.
c. She lied about losing her fake finger nails in a desperate struggle in the small enclosed bathroom, but pictures show that she removed her nails before inadequately performing her routine. No scratches were found on any of the innocent lacrosse boys’ bodies.
d. The 2 innocent boys she “eeny meeny miney moed” to be her rapists weren’t even at the party the time she claimed the rape occurred. She claims that she’s 100% sure, but she told her father that she’s not sure.
e. She took drugs before coming to the house, something illegal.

The stripper obviously lied, and she’s putting these innocent boys and families through hell. She deserves to be in prison for the rest of her pathetic life. She is worthless as a person and human being. Her one lie destroyed innocent boys. I hope her and Nifong’s aura catches up to them and they both get what they deserve. I hope everyone wishing this rape claim to be true, in spite of all the evidence that it never occurred, gets what’s coming to them.

Posted by: Betty Friedan | May 15, 2006 at 05:33 AM

Hey! I was a stripper(male) for a couple of years after college, and it's not that we lie, it's just we sell an image. If you want a starving college boy, you got a starving college boy, it you want a depraved exhibitionist, you got a depraved exhibitionist. I've showed up at "private parties" dressed in anything from hot pants, surf shorts, to baseball uniform at the client's request. Being male, if you wanted to have lots of sex, you strip for women, if you want lots of money you strip for men, and you learn to be whatever they want you to be for the time you give them.

Women strippers are a different animal. They're not innocent. The money top female strippers can make will blow your mind. Feminist have successfully made all women to be innocent victims who are forced to have sex and show their bodies for money. Such bull! These women know how to work money out of guys. All you need is a little liquor and guys would empty their wallets!

Many of these women are ‘dealers”, but that’s just being prepared to please your client.

I suspect this black stripper, Crystal Gail Mangum, lied about being raped in fear of being arrested for drug possession. She was already on probation for larceny, auto theft, and trying to mow over a police officer in 2002, and didn’t want to have her probation revoked. I’m wondering what kind of lap dance she gave Mr. Nifong to get his devotion. This black girl must be talented.

Stay away from old strippers because the longer you’re a stripper, the more likely you’ve gotten into drugs, and once drugs claim hold of you, you’re life blows, and it wouldn’t be unusual to blow thousands of dollars a night to get that “buzz”. Luckily I had a problem with a certain liquor commissioner. He caught me working this guy for $20.00 for each 3 second feel and next thing I know I was in the liquor storeroom with my legs up. Thank god what they say about all black men being hung isn’t true. Was I upset, sure, was I coerced, sure, but that’s the deal you make when you cross a government official with the power of fining the nightclub, getting you fired and arrested. Pretty boys dragged to jail wearing nothing but a metallic animal print thong don’t do well in police holding over a long weekend. This is where you learn that it’s screw them before they screw you, and client don’t seem anything more than game.

There is a whole underworld out there that lives under the cover of night. These people who seem like victims won’t hold back taking victims of their own. That’s the world they live in. It’s the drugs and the experience of feeling you won’t be accepted by your looks and will be taken advantage of for your looks. It’s hard to explain, but if you’re going to hire a stripper, you have to know what you’re getting yourself into. Many of these people are hardened criminals, angry, or just plain crazy… Oh! BTW… never get into a fight with a “tranny”. They may look like pretty girls, but they’re strong like guys, hopped up on hormones, and usually carrying a weapon.

Posted by: some one changed | May 15, 2006 at 05:35 AM