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May 26, 2006



What ever happened to Larwyn...hope she is ok.



Larwyn is OK on the mend (she is sight impaired and her allergy meds affected her sight even more) so she been unable to "internets" but soon she will...she's elated her grandson is home from college (he gonna set her up with a better computer situation) and her family is visiting her and she is cooking.


it's a real bummer when I type so fast I forget tenses and such and sound like a hoodlum or something

he gonna?


I hope that apology for bad typing isn't directed to ME...LOL


It's funny, I could give ahoot about typos from anyone...except me.


anyone on any other blog picking up on the case number of sealed vs. sealed being to Time Inc. in Libby?


I haven't been there to check,ts/I think there's a spare hazmat suit in the closet if you care to visit.

Carol Herman

Val-Queries! That's what I'm calling her. This is getting to be longer than a Wagnerian Opera. With such a cast of characters, no less.


Re: Freeman

NYTimes owns the privilege wrt Freeman's work product. Judy (as a non-management employee) cannot assert lawyer-client privilege for any notes she took or advice she followed from him. The Times cannot assert the privilege because any communication with her obviously is not a confidential communication between a lawyer and a client.

As Javani points out, her interests do not directly align with the Times in this case. (Lesson for all of you who are not the boss: When the company lawyer interviews you, he does not (and cannot) have your best interests in mind.)

I have significant doubts about the applicability of the Times privilege with respect to his advice to her. We went back and forth on this quite a bit when I was in-house--I don't believe that our position that privilege applied was widely accepted outside the corporate counsel world.

Anything he wrote to file or to management is certainly protected. But Judy is not his client, so any communications with a non-client (even in the context of a Pinch-Judy-Freeman conference) are subject to attack on the grounds that they are no longer "confidential".

(And yes, I've taken a dollar as consideration and retained my wife as a part-time secretary in order avoid these problems. Works when my wife's interests do not conflict with those of my client.)

Unfortunately, a lawyer cannot maintain ethical duties to people whose interests do not align. Freeman doesn't represent J. Miller, therefore his communications with her, even if they represent his considered legal opinion, are not priveleged.

PS: Got one of these cases now: Former corporate officers trying to depose an outside counsel to bolster their case. Somehow they thought she was their lawyer even though the corporation paid her bills. Whoops!


Side note. I will be in the DC area over the next 2-3 weeks (camping/kayak trip with my 5-year-old). Are any hearings scheduled over that time frame? I'd love to actually see an argument in person. Of course, but then I'd have to pack a suit....

Thomas Esmond Knox

Is testimony to a Grand Jury taped? If so, is the tape available to the witness for review? I'm thinking that when I testified as an in-"expert" witness I included plenty of qualifiers, "verbal hedges", etc. My experience of political types is that they are seldom straightforward. More "Have you heard..", "Do you know if.." types of people.


Pinch and Judy? Is this a Pinch and Judy Show? Here we got TS talking like a gangster while Clarice is advising us to 'Aim for the nuts'. Outstanding reading this Friday evening. Thanks all for the education and entertainment.


""Thus, unlike Miller, whose documents appear internally consistent """

So according to the judge, Judy Miller always uses the name 'FLAME'in her notes?

Judy Miller always uses the name 'VICTORIA'
in her notes??

Judy Miller always says FLAME works at the 'BUREAU' in her notes.

This judge is fasting losing any credibility.


I have it confirmed from two sources, in a position to know, and I will out them if they are wrong, that KARL ROVE WILL NOT BE INDICTED THIS WEEKEND.

ALL THE BDS'rs can shut their computers off and go thank a Veteran.


Several posters on this board indictaed it's better to wait for the actual transcript of the hearing rather than go by MSM reports.

IIRC-MSM reported this hearing as a real loss for Team Libby, that the judge practically sneered at their requests.

In reality, they did pretty well here. It's sad that you can no longer trust the media to even get the basics right.


I propose a change in our Constitution. You know, the part where the New York Times gets special privileges because it's so important to our democracy? because it ferrets out the truth and helps us makes voting decisions? The part where Pinch plays a role in keeping our government honest and transparent? the part where the media is allowed to make policy decision concerning how we conduct international affairs? the part that says the media gets to decide who the enemy is? the part that says there is only one worthwhile party in our politics?

I say scrap all of it. Everybody for themselves! Give the internet freedom from restrictions and let every man decide for himself what to believe and what to support.

No more gatekeepers!

Matt Stupir

"The key to Libby's defense is whose memory of those conversations is correct — Libby's or those of the three reporters.

Walton said Cooper, Miller and Russert are central to the government's case and challenging their recollections will be "critical to the defense." "


thanks for the information on Larwyn. Glad she is doing better! Give her my best wishes.


And how well those of the 3 reporters' information jive with each other against Libby's memory.


As this case continues to unravel I'm finally starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. My favorite name for Val: She who can't be Named. I must admit I'm stunned that people who know the truth do not step forward. I guess in my protected academic world I don't see a lot of this character assassination and game-playing up close. I'm rather glad that I don't. It is not a pretty picture.


This is where Fitzgerald has the advantage. He got to do his 'fishing expedition' during what was originally called the investigation of a leak of a covert operative. Fitzgerald has talked to everyone around Libby and found out Libby, if the sources aren't hedging their own bets, talked about Plame in the days leading up to his conversation with each of the reporters. Libby doesn't get to investigate, or go on a fishing expedition, like Fitzgerald did. He can't find out and talk to the people Russert, Cooper, Miller were around and find out if they discussed Plame prior to their conversations with Libby. But that's our justice system.


Here is the difference between WAPO and blogs:


Apparently, Cheney has no qualms testifying in the Libby case as he probably thinks Libby is innocent. Fitz surely has to know that to not call Cheney to the stands.


latest from the WAPO via the Corner. The reporters seem genuinely perplexed as to why the VP would be upset that someone called him a liar and said he sent Wilson, go figure.

Shortcut to: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052601757.html


Apologize for the duplicate post of WAPO article. Did look before I posted, but the time it takes me to link causes me to miss some posts. :)


Hey, Patton, Walton probably meant Miller's notes were internally consistent when compared to Cooper's as a standard. Walton has impugned Fitz's biggest(and second most domestically compromised after the Wilsons) witness. Fitz almost has to fold. He's got nothing to ante up with but his briefs and it's only his own suspendered beliefs that are holding them up.


'pony up with' not 'ante up with' His case 'Depends' on strapping diapers on a horse's ass.


What does the president of Iran have to do with it?


Here, would you like some holes to dunkin your case?


Ah made dinnah, Jed.


Stuff that in your spiehole.


As Clarice pointed out yesterday, notice how quiet LJ, TO, Wilson, and other VIPers have been since Walton's last rulings? And LJ had to refer, no...RRRREEEAAACCCHHH on the Bush / Blair mistakes.

Hopefully, this summer will change the picture.


I think the main reason the VIPers are quiet is the discrediting of their mouthpiece, JL.

I think they need to get a new way to get their stories out. Maybe a direct line to David Shuster, he seems totally lost now that he acutally has to pretend to be a reporter and now just read JL's rantings.


Ah made ya a winnah, Jeb.


Remember too, Kate, about the time McCarthy crashed, a number of former CIA personnel received letters saying that the 'bureau' still had some say over what they wrote about it. I think that chilled a lot of prevarication. And without that, what's to talk about?


As an inveterate reader of JOM and the "Leak" threads I also wish the best to Larwyn on this holiday weekend. Good luck and hurry back Larwyn!


Kim, I think Larry Johnson got one of the letters. I think he wrote complaining about it.


Yep, verner, that matches my recollection.


Don't know enough about Russerts testimony, but from what Miller and Cooper published and gave interviews about after their testimony I would say they both admit they don't have a good memory, or an exact recollection of what Libby said. Miller admits she doesn't remeber Plame coming up in the June conversation at all and Cooper says Libby said up de ump OR WORDS TO THAT AFFECT.
Russert hasn't really said what the conversation was with Libby just that neither of them mentioned Wilsons wife was CIA, but he doesn't seem to want to be categorical and noone tries to pin it down.

And someone once again mentioned that Libby may have thought Russert wouldn't talk due to confidentiality..BUT THERE IS NO CONFIDENTIALITY FOR CONVERSATIONS THAT DIDN'T OCCUR.

Libby certainly knows that his conversation with Russert wasn't confidential, and you can't have confidentiality on soemthing you didn't say.


Since Larry Johnson was a CIA analyst,it is doubtful tha he ever went to the farm.


I was reviewing some of this yesterday. Only, because I didn't want to clean my place.

The other government officials can only testify that Libby heard from them about Plame.

Specifically, Libby is charged with lying when he testified that he told the 3 reporters that he heard about Plame from other reporters because the reporters claim that's not what he said.

For instance, in the Cooper case, according to Cooper Libby said:

I heard that too.

Why Libby says: I heard that too from reporters.

That is really thin, wafer thin.

It sounds like poor LIbby was playing a game in his head of compartmentalizin the information. He was a sitting duck for Fitz' perjury trap.


He was just being incredibly dumb I think Kate.

He should have just folded his hands in his lap and answered the questions straight up instead of being cute. And if all else fails 'I don't remember' is always a wonderful answer, or something like 'hmm...I can't recall exactly but I think...'.

Its just that its such a pathetic mealy mouthed fudge and such a petty, miniscule thing for Fitz to make into a perjury and obstruction case.

I mean jeez man come on there isn't even an underlying crime for goodness sake. This whole thing has become other-worldly weird.


Libby certainly knows that his conversation with Russert wasn't confidential, and you can't have confidentiality on soemthing you didn't say.

Yep. I assume Fitz thinks Libby was trying to pin something on an enemy. I don't think he was that dumb. NYT/WaPo might have the clout but Russert happens to be head of the viper's nest. So do I think he would trust any of that crew on confidentiality? No way.


How about Val-Kerry.


Now this is just plain scary

Don't Look


That's a good one Spectator.

How about the Armani Agent.


Press Gallery Plame



"Fitz almost has to fold. He's got nothing to ante up with but his briefs and it's only his own suspendered beliefs that are holding them up.

'pony up with' not 'ante up with' His case 'Depends' on strapping diapers on a horse's ass."

ROTFLMAO! I'll be thinking about suspendered briefs and depended asses all day today.

Barney Frank


You beat me to it.
Since this whole schlemiel seems to have been a dark-op to elect that preening jack ass Kerry, seems the perfect phrase for Brunhillde is......
The Ride of the Valkerries.


We even have a built in theme song....LOL

Carol Herman

"I heard that, too" is hearsay. And, I'm not even a lawyer. But Walton is gonna have a lot of fun banging his gavel.

WOODWARD is doing all he can to save the WaPo's reputation! That's why he was on TV saying Fitzgerald was making too much of nothin.

Then, he shot one across Pincus' bow. So Pincus is stuck with not remembering a conversation that was then hush-hush, whispered ... and those in the know made to feel very important.

I'd take a wager that WOODWARD is one angry man. And, when the heads roll at the WaPo, under his direction, it won't look like the spoof of Miller getting axed at the NY Slimes.

How much is recovering WaPo's reputation from all of this worth? Oh, about a million dollars. Can Woodward make even more money THIS TIME OUT with an "All the President's Men" book? What does he know? He was INSIDE very, very early. And, Libby's team is getting more blows in, JUST IN CASE THE CASE, ITSELF, doesn't end in a knockout. So far, Libby's team's the one "moving like a butterfly." And, there's no facial damage on them, either.

The INTERNET proves we've got a better attention span that the MSM gives people credit for. 240+ comments. I read them all! Lots of us are doing this. Even many who don't even post comments, read each and every one, here!


it is here

Barney Frank

Incidentally it was something Carol Herman said upthread that made me think of Wagner, to give credit where its due.


You are right Barney. Carol said:

Val-keries. Where the fat lady sings, I suppose?

She gets the credit. I still like the name for Val.


Specter and Barney Frank:
I love Wagner -the Ring Cycle and all.


Just what Kerry needs another gal-pal like Val. What would TERAysuh say about that?

richard mcenroe

"ALL THE BDS'rs can shut their computers off and go thank a Veteran.

Patton — Don't hold your breath.


They are prolly all saying, "what's a BDSer?"



As far as Theresa she's too busy running her processed tomato byproduct factory and cruising Fox Chapel.....


Think that musical Ride of the Valkerries needs Wuzzadem to put in the pictures.



Kerry Pressing Swiftboat Case, Long After Loss


He's running and had enough time/money to clean the records.

If Wuzzadem puts pics to the Ride, I can't decide if Kerry should be the horse or the rider. Regardless, he wears his metals.


He's now put out photographs, which may be checked. I've never understood the Schachte testimony; what I remember from that incident is 'fleeing like gazelles'. Unarmed teenager, toting that grenade launcher. Hah, hah, hah.

Classically, tragically, he can't give up the heroic image he retains of himself. It was so wrenching, he felt heroic. Hey, war is hell.


Hey owl, you don't get it. This is all the stuff form the 180. Right?




No more linkies for me...I found a nice little 1997 Honda Valkyrie...oh well

Barney Frank


Originally the Valkyries were supposed to ride wolves, as in the 'dogs of war' type wolves.

Maybe Kerry could be a French Poodle instead.:P


I know but he looks like a horse


I don't wanta pickle.
Jes wanna ride on my motorcickle.
And I don't wanna spy.
Jes wanna slide with my coterie.

Oops, that was Ride of the Val Cheerers.

To think that I saw it on Cambodia's Eve,
Is this what I see like gazelles they flee.
Spray it out, rock with it,
Lean with it, safe keep it.
Pedal to the Medal, shine on verdigris.

Barney Frank

Maybe he could be a french version of a centaur; The head of a Clydesdale on a teacup poodle.
Kind of like that big-head Gatorade commercial.

Carol Herman

We shouldn't forget that Ambassador Munchausen has TWO spook wives. And, the french one is the one who knows about Niger. And, how "enriching" it's been for Chirac.

It's also the place that cooked up the Niger forgeries.

And, probably the place that gave the CIA off-the-book FUNDS so proceed with their cabal.

What if ASPEN was the code word chosen by this crew? As in: As-we-PEN-in the Prez. And, his men.

Fitzgerald might have bumed into a clue. Even though Judith Miller denied Libby was up to sending her codes while she was in jail.

Where are the alarm bells that Miller wasn't even trying to protect Libby? She was protecting "somebody else." Or? OTHERS.

The Niger forgeries were "outed" by the Italians. (When was this? After Sgrena saw the #1 Italian spook killed with one bullet? That car didn't even have BULLET HOLES! let alone the hundreds of shell casings that fell around Sgrena.) Remember, too, that the Italians dropped MILLIONS on the Iraqi terrorists to get Sgrena out. And, there was an American colonel at the plane to push the expected arrival of Sgrena and the spy guy on board. Did he just walk off silently into the night?)

What if it's a true statement someone made here (alas I don't remember who), who said "THE PRESIDENT HAS THE MEDIA'S GAME BOOK." True. Most of us have figured out a thing or two, as well.

Won't the naked truth finally pull off Fitzgerald's suspenders? Gone then will be the Depends, too. Does this man have an exit strategy that works?

And, at the end of the day, will Tenet have to return his MEDAL OF FREEDOM?

Woodward's gonna do a last-minute save of the WaPo. He's way up high on their Executive Board. While the NY Times has nothing of this caliber up there to save their arses.


Can it be just around the corner?

Carol Herman

Gosh, I hope Clarice Feldman takes a stab at what kind of witness Judith Miller will make. This stuff must be done in advance of trials, right?

We know she went to jail. Is this an area where Wells can ask her questions? Just to ascertain if she's hostile towards Libby. Or not.

Then, there's that letter Libby had to write to her while she was in prison. Does Judge Walton allow it in as evidence? What if the answer is "yes."

What if Wells asks her about the sentence Fitzgerald probed at, about "coded words?" And, Aspens with roots intertwining until the leaves flip off in clusters.

WHAT IF THERE WAS A CODE? Wells wouldn't have to let on he thinks Libby was "flashing" something. (Given that Miller wasn't in jail protecting Libby as her source. She GAVE AWAY THE STORE as soon as she got Fitzgerald to commit to questioning her about NOTHING ELSE.)

HOW DOES THE JUDGE react to the defendant's lawyers questions? Handicapping Wells, here? WHY? What IF the President (who has the media's script in hand), isn't aware of how deeply these roots penetrate. Not just this case, BUT THE WHOLE SCHEME OF THINGS?

Miller can't lie on the stand. Her own reputation is at stake.

Can Wells ask her about the NY Times referring to her as MS. Run Amok? Can she be asked about the hindrances put up in her way of writing anything at all? Can she be asked if her silence was writer's block? And/or voluntary?

Miller, I'm guessing, first gets called by Fitzgerald. (If this case goes on the docket in a 007 time frame.)

That means Fitzgerald's doing the questioning FIRST. And, Wells is left to "oject." Or not. And, then he gets to CROSS. Can Fitzgerald OMIT any mention of having had to put Miller in jail? To get to the testimony he needed to charge Libby with something ... You'd think it would be MATERIAL to know what Miller knew. And, when she knew it. WILL SHE BE ALLOWED TO HAVE BILL BENNETT IN COURT WITH HER? Obviously, Fitzgerald isn't going to have her, ahead of time, to "go over her testimoney," will he? Can BILL BENNETT interact with his client? He's a lawyer. I always thought that was all you needed to open the gate, and "approach the Bar." But if Bennett's in the room, at whose table does he sit?

Can Miller just parrot her 5th Amendment Rights to every question, here?

And, wouldn't Miller be Fitzgerald's FIRST witness? Or does he get to pamper R-U-S-S-E-R-T, first?

What if there was really a "secret plan" pushed by the Ambassador in this thing? Fitzgerald can just HIDE everything that has to do with a set-up to "get" Libby?


Now, NOT just the REFERRAL LETTER needs to be produced (I'd think). BUT ALSO details on how and why the Ambassador never got deposed AFTER he returned from Niger. There aren't even financial reports on this trip. OR AS CHENEY WROTE IN THE COLUMN HE EXCIZED FROM THE NEWSPAPER WITH HIS PEN KNIFE ... Since when has this been procedure?

No paper trail. No need for confidentiality from Ambassador Munchausen.

And, lurking in the far background ... THOSE ASPEN ROOTS ... turning. You bet when the trees turn it all looks so pretty.

I wonder what Libby knows. What if Fitzgerald jumped to a conclusion that really does contain an interesting clue? Will we ever find out?

Of course, not if the case gets dismissed, first.

But if Walton's really, really angry, he'd just let Fitzgerald walk away?

This story's better than Harry Potter! And, you bet, I'm waiting for the last in the series to see how Rowling ties up all the knots.

Wonder how much wear and tear there will be on Walton's gavel. And, if he allows the courtroom to be lit? Or everything goes dark?

It will be so nice to hear from lawyers who detail how witnesses are prepped.

Carol Herman

OT: Has anyone else seen this stuff up at MacsMind? Joe Wilson's name shows up. And, another African connection.

The Coming Storm - Rep. William Jefferson - III - Connections

Just musings, but I'm willing to bet there is more behind Jefferson's outrage than meets the eye, and there was more to the search warrant than has been told.

Clue: Read his congressional biography slowly. Note connections to the Africa Trade and Investment Caucus.

My gut (usually right), tells me that there is a reason that this search called unprecedented - was deemed extreemly important by the DOJ. A reason I think may cap pretty much all of what we've been talking about for the last few years on this and other blogs. So for a nightcap, and for the sluths:

Add: Africa Trade and Investment Caucus + President Clinton using Joe Wilson to drum up trade in Africa.

= This excellent researched article by Fedora on Free Republic called: What Joe Wilson Didn't say about Africa.

For good measure mix in this background, and what do you have? I think AJ Strata back in this post came upon a clue.

All together now: "A bang of a Summer!"


Mac has updates:

The Coming Storm - Rep. William Jefferson - IV - Get Ur Helmet on


We will see what will come out of these WMD searches:

Iraq, WMDs and Troubling Revelations

Not many people will listen to these people...

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