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May 18, 2006

Comments

windansea

Clarice
thanks for the mention! very cool..

PUK

a prawn in the couch...heh!!

kim

Woodward could still reveal the source, he has that hanging. He's got to wait until Felt stops turning in his grave first, though.
====================================

clarice

It really often is hard to tell what occurred at a hearing like this from the transcript where a lot is taking place at the bench and you have no access to the documents to which the parties are referring.

At trial, greater effort is made to be certain the parties always mention the name of the exhibit so a reader has a clearer idea of the meaning of the discussion.

If you have a knowledgable and careful reporter who sees the choreography he may give you a better idea, but where is that rare person?

clarice

W&S--you're welcome.
There's a prawn in the couch?Does that mean I needn't cook breakfast?

Kate

Armitage is probably ticked at Rove since he didn't get that CIA Director job he was pining for. In his mind, he was clearly more qualified then that darn General. Darn that Rove!!

Appalled Moderate

I will take issue with one point in Clemons' posting. Armitage has not acted the part of a straight up guy through this. Sure, he may have told his superiors and the grand jury all when he realized his "mistakes". But he had told the American people utterly zilch. This is a stand up guy? Let your co-workers twist in the wind under suspicion in the press for things they did not do? Well, since it's Rove and Libby and Cheney, maybe they deserve it.

And, where was Colin Powell? If he was told everything, why has he said nothing? And if Colin knew all and he is incapable of dishonor, why did he leak about Ari reading the INR on the plane?

Look, my guess is that if people like Armitage and Powell had had their head in 2002, we would not have this Iraq mess. But being right does not make them honorable, decent, upstanding human beings incapable of doing a single wrong thing in connection with the Plame affair.

This does seem to be a moon and planet day, as I agree with Clarice. Based on what we know about the case on Rove, how can Fitz indict. And what dirt would Armitage have on him, anyway. They inhabited different planets.

Rick Ballard

Armitage draws a walk because no "WMD managerial type" (per INR meeting note) could possibly be 0036D - 'covert agent extraordinaire' and running to Powell screaming mea maxima culpa provides absolution from investigation?

That's a very interesting legal analysis. I wonder if Powell pronounced "ego te absolvo, my son, go and sin no more" at the end of Armitage's confession.

windansea

**That said, I have learned from several other sources that Richard Armitage was neck deep in the Valerie Plame story. According to several insiders, as soon as Armitage realized mistakes he had made, he marched into Colin Powell and laid out "everything" in full detail**

really? when was this? after Libby got indicted? after he was pressed by Woodward several times to come clean?

add Powell to the witness list


clarice

Rereading Clemons, you might say people told him Armitage won't be indicted for "outing" Plame. Well, no one will because that's not a crime.
And others say Fitz hasn't caught him in a lie about who he told and why. Well, he has the advantage of having held back until most of the story is out now, doesn't he? So he won't be indicted for outing or perjury or obstruction? If true, that means he was never asked about who else he told even though the article early on suggests he told a number of people.

Bottom line: I don't think he has anything that hurts Rove and I still think it hurts the case against Libby. Because it increases the likelihood that "everybody knew" and Libby either heard this stuff being bruited by other reporters or confused Russert with someone else.

kim

You're too late, C, the cat ate it days ago. That's why he went to the vet.
================

Kate

Iraq may seem like a mess because it's a preemptive war of choice. We can't compare it with what we preempted.

I always think about what if the European leaders had fought a preemptive war in 1936 or 37. They would have been hated much more than Bush by their war weary population, the war would have caused hundreds of thousands of casualties, hurt the economy...

I could guess that Iran/Iraq/Syria would have formed an alliance dedicated to spreading terrorism througout the world and possibly ending with a nuclear device going off in a major US city.

Sue

Does anyone remember that Gonzales testified before the Plame GJ about telling Andrew Card immediately about the preservatoin order? If Gonzales was really at the GJ the other day, maybe he was back testifying again.

kim

History is going to be kind to George Walker Bush. That's the tremendous irony. NEA will be teaching it.

In charter schools. Public, accountable.
============

clarice

What are the odds that one of the people this Aspen Institute biggie told Judy Miller?

What are the odds that Grossman was one of the "friends" in DoD who Wilson called long before he went public?

I love living in D.C. It makes it easier to understand that wonderful HBO series "Rome".

clarice

Sue, you missed it. His(Gonzales') office denies he was there.

richard mcenroe

11 AM in D.C.

Dude, where's my indictment?

windansea

Jim E -- that claim comes from multiple sources. I don't have any idea how Armitage's grand jury testimony conflicts with Rove, but one of my sources speculates that Armitage's testimony compelled Robert Luskin to initiate the process of getting Rove to adjust testimony he previously provided. Note that this is speculation -- and not confirmed. But to your answer -- multiple sources.

best, Steve Clemons

Kate

Gonzales was not back testifying before the GJ. That is totally fiction. The guy who wrote that also wrote that right wing British groups did the 7 July bombings to stir up anti-Muslim sentiment and that the American soldier who accidently killed the Italian agent was ordered to do so by American officials. And that's some of his more rational material. Please go to his website and read through his postings.

Sue

I know he denied it. People are denying everywhere. ::grin:: If he was there though, it would have more than likely been as a witness not as AG.

kim

C., one of the things that stuns me about this is the massive amount of hubris it must have taken to believe that this fraud could have been pulled off. I realize that it has serendipitous elements, and has taken on a life of it's own, but to imagine the delusion it took to start this, it really requires invoking the psychotic to explain it all. I'm pretty sure Joe is in need of help.
=================================

Cecil Turner

But he had told the American people utterly zilch. This is a stand up guy?

Not sure that's entirely fair. This request of Fitz's would seem to be pointed directly at Armitage:

I know there's a debate out there from people as to who should say what about what, and I'm not wading into that, other than I have asked people, as a request, not to compromise the investigation by talking. And I'll just leave it at that.
But being right does not make them honorable, decent, upstanding human beings incapable of doing a single wrong thing in connection with the Plame affair.

I'm still trying to find the "wrong things" supposedly done in this affair. From the casual way everyone (including CIA and Plame herself) treated her identity, the outing sure doesn't appear to be a big deal. (Fitz apparently agrees.) So if he didn't cover up, what's the beef?

pollyusa

Clemons has added this in the comments, in response to Jim E.

Jim E -- that claim comes from multiple sources. I don't have any idea how Armitage's grand jury testimony conflicts with Rove, but one of my sources speculates that Armitage's testimony compelled John Ruskin to initiate the process of getting Rove to adjust testimony he previously provided. Note that this is speculation -- and not confirmed. But to your answer -- multiple sources.
TWN

What part of Rove's testimony he "adjusted" is not clear.

megrez80

Does anyone think that maybe, just maybe, that an impeachment inquiry might be a good thing in that it'll finally bring down this house of cards built by the Wilsonistas/MSM?

clarice

Ve haff other vays..megrez..And one far more likely to get to the truth of this.


Kate

Who is John Ruskin?

windansea

Who is John Ruskin?

that's wierd..I posted the same thing as Polly above and mine sez Robert Luskin

windansea

screw it...let's waterboard all of them

Kate

Oh, Luskin, Rove's attorney, sorry, thought it was a new player.

Thought Luskin came forward because of a happy hour chat with V. Novak. How does Armitage play in this. Help!!!

clarice

Asking for volunteers!!! It appears there is now an acute shortage of knowledgeable insiders close to the investigation willing to serve as anonymous sources. Please raise your hands. My assistant will be along shortly to take your names.

maryrose

clarice:
Great article- windansea-Kudos on the catch-it's an important one.
I love the series "Rome" so much backbiting and undercutting-just like Washington where the power -play is the thing.
No indictments today-Sorry Jeff -we know you are counting on it.

pollyusa

windansea

I still had the screen up from when I copied Clemons comment and checked.

Clemons had it the way I posted it, he edited his mistake and put Luskin.

Appalled Moderate

Cecil:

The problem we have here is that Fitz saw fit to treat scuzzy behavior as criminal and proceeded accordingly. In reality, this was really a political issue that should have been treated politically. (There would have been a scandal, Libby probably would have to had quit, along with Armitage, Rove would have taken a hit, and maybe we'd have a President Kerry).

The legal approach to this also has meant that a lot of things have been kept secret that should not have been. The first order of business should have been to out Novak's source and get either his resignation or explanation. the second would have been a report explaining the whole matter (and, at the same time, addressing Wilson's charges and dismissing Wilson as the pathetic little man he is.)

People should not lie to investigators and should be in legal jeapordy if they do. But it seems like this "investigation" has served the Republic badly, because it's priorities have been skewed.

windansea

And that's the basic problem. If Armitage had not forgotten about blowing Plame's cover with Woodward in mid-June 2003, then why didn't he acknowledge it to the investigation until October-November 2005? That doesn't sound like being a straight shooter and being honest about his role and mistakes to me.

Posted by Jeff

Powerful you have become, Dooku. The Dark Side I sense in you.

owl

"Clearly, it was meant purely and simply for revenge," the senior official said of the alleged leak.

whomever said this to Priest & Allen should now (post Woodward & UGO testimony) be considered by Fitz as a sand thrower
***windansea*****

As if for the first time. This is the snake.

Appalled Moderate

Cecil:

And one more thought, how about having said something in 2003, before this thing WAS a criminal investigation. Real stand up guy....

Cecil Turner

The problem we have here is that Fitz saw fit to treat scuzzy behavior as criminal and proceeded accordingly.

Sorry, I'm not even buying "scuzzy." Wilson spread disinformation that impaired US policy in wartime, claiming it was the straight skinny from an informed intelligence source. IMHO, he ought to've been tried for treason. A "pushback" was more than warranted.

The first order of business should have been to out Novak's source and get either his resignation or explanation.

On what charge? What's the beef? You appear to be buying Wilson's take on all this, which to my mind has been disproven past any reasonable doubt.

People should not lie to investigators and should be in legal jeapordy if they do.

People should not be grilled about tangential points having to do with months-previous conversations under penalty of perjury unless there's an overriding national interest. Here there is none. There's no indication Administration officials thought any more of Plame's involvement than it was an awfully strange personnel assignment (which it was). Absent motive, this is much ado about silliness, and the bigger picture (disgruntled CIA officers leaking to the press in order to sway an election) is getting lost.

Cecil Turner

And one more thought, how about having said something in 2003, before this thing WAS a criminal investigation.

About what? Because the criminal investigation preceded the crime.

Appalled Moderate

Cecil:

Wilson spread disinformation that impaired US policy in wartime...A "pushback" was more than warranted.

Pushback should be against the person pushing, not his wife.

There's no indication Administration officials thought any more of Plame's involvement than it was an awfully strange personnel assignment (which it was). Absent motive, this is much ado about silliness, and the bigger picture (disgruntled CIA officers leaking to the press in order to sway an election) is getting lost.

As I said, this needed investigaton in a political, not a judicial, forum. That would have allowed both sides on the issue to be discussed and the revelations processed.

Appalled Moderate

Cecil:

Think we've hit the agree to disagree place.

kim

Jeff has a good post at 12:32 on emptywheel.
==========================

Cecil Turner

Pushback should be against the person pushing, not his wife.

It was. They called him a liar, not her [correctly, as it happens]. And as much as some would like to claim otherwise, his wife was [a very minor] part of the story.

As I said, this needed investigaton in a political, not a judicial, forum.

So the lefties that called for a criminal investigation were out to lunch? At last, something we can agree on.

Think we've hit the agree to disagree place.

Probably. Though I'd suggest the presumption of guilt on the part of everyone in the Administration is not "reality based." And without that presumption, there's precious little here.

Syl

Jeff

The only plausible claim this amounts to is that Libby knew - from his own actions and Rove's - that reporters knew, and therefore he could testify that reporters were his source of information.

Baby, THAT'S THE POINT OF THE OBSTRUCTION. Libby made it all up to make it seem like he couldn't have been the leaker.

That's true, but it has nothing to do with who leaked first.

Sure it does. Fitz has to wonder if Libby did indeed hear it from someone BEFORE he supposedly planted the seed. That would force fitz to look at Libby's testimony in a completely different light.

Instead of reading Libby's testimony as lying about hearing it from reporters, he would have to consider reading it as only lying about forgetting....and that's harder to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. A memory defense is sufficient here.

Woodward coming out weakened Fitz case.

kim

And Jeff, too, wonders about Armitage's interactions with Powell, Tenet, and Fitz, pre and post Libby indictment.
==================================

Jane

Okay so now it is 1:00 EST time and no frog march, no press conference and no sources revealed.

What on earth is going on?

kim

Clearly, the Chrome Domed One ordered out Chinese and is now downing fire hot lakshi.
=================================

kim

Chromed Dome is probably better. Chrome Dome has too much of the heft of Lead Head, some hot of which is being poured into the gullets of the scalers.
====================================

PeterUK

I can see what is going wrong here,Jason Loophole is using the Julian Calendar,whilst we are using the Gregorian Calendar.

kim

We've invoked Dreyfus; how about a little Cervantes?
===============================

kim

Sancho FitzPanza.
===============

clarice

Popped into DU--It must be nice to be some dumb that you can never get dispirited..Today they are certain Armitage is going to bring down Rove (and with him the Administration). Well, if you can't win elections I suppose this is what you're left with..

clarice

Great, Kim

Rick Ballard

What on earth is going on?

Another Fitzfizzle. As Cecil cogently noted, the Scooter the BDSers got for Fitzmas was insufficient to sustain proper levels of derangement.

Don't worry, next week new sails wil be sighted from the tops of the coconut palms and the Left will once again assemble at dawn down by the wharf.

PeterUK

Clarice,
Do you have trading standards in the US? Since they are willing to subvert the democratic process,the DU should be made to remove,Democratic from their product.

Chants

"What on earth is going on?" -- Jane

The short story: No one wants to listen to the Larry and Joe show anymore.

noah

Oops...no glory for Jason and, er, Tom Maguire.

clarice

PUK I don't know how successful I'd be with that, especially if the Supr, Ct applied international law. Offhand, I cannot think of a dictatorship which hasn't Democratic in its name.

Now, my particular beef is with the left appropriating the sobriquet "progressive" to describe antique views discredited for some decades.

Kate

Does anyone think Fitz ever gets annoyed with the antics of his noble whistleblower Joe and his lovely bride Val?

PeterUK

TRue Clarice,
But isn't Democratic a bit right wing for the the denzins of the DenimUnderwear?

PeterUK

..and Liberal as a euphemism for a dirigiste totalitarian mindset.

clarice

PUK, I woke with a dreadful cold this morning and I think it has something to do with a nightmare I had last night. All the graduations I ever attended flashed past my eyes. Dreadfully uncomfortable folding wooden chairs sinking into the moist earth. The sun beating down mercilessly. Swarms of gnats buzzing about. I am emprisoned by convention there listening to some nitwit making an idiotic political statement while I, contrained by a sense of civility, must restrain myself from running to the dais and responding.

Rick Ballard

New question:

What is the scheduled date for the auto-da-fé (and punishment) of Leotard's source? Will 'Without Truth' conduct a trial for Leotard himself?

Personally, I'm hoping for something on the order of this but booking the Piazza della Signoria may be a bit difficult.

PeterUK

"Pushback should be against the person pushing, not his wife."

This begs the question, what deleterious effect has this had on Plame/Wilson? There has been no fatwa from irate Iranians,the North Koreans don't seem to have noticed,the woman has a $2.5 million book deal she is a celebrity,a heroine to the Dems and LL.Her life does not appear to be in danger,personal security is glaringly absent,she has Joe,every silver lining has a cloud,from deskjockey drone to star.Keep this up and the entire CIA will be queueing up to be outed!

PeterUK

Sorry Rick,little green elves are a protected species.

PeterUK

Clarice sorry about your cold,is there a handy liberal you can hug,in the spirit of redistribution and inclusion?

JM Hanes

windansea

"add Powell to the witness list"

He's already on the witness list. People seem to forget that before he was sainted by the left, insider politics was widely seen as Powell's special forte.

I had always liked Powell, but he was a disaster as Secretary of State (with the possible exception of helping defuse an Indian/Pakistani stand off). He spent most of his time in the office on the phone and displayed a surprising willingness to undercut the Prez at a number of key points, his UN performance notwithstanding.

Allowing, if not encouraging, the public perception that he opposed Presidential policy is the act of a man more concerned with his own legacy than his credibility as the President's confidante and U.S. spokesman in affairs of global importance. It's a big part of why he was so spectacularly ineffective as Secretary of State. When de Villepin knifed him in the back, he sulked like an aggrieved victim. Sheesh, even I saw that one coming. It's entirely possible that both he & Armitage were considerably more attentive to domestic internal politics than they were to the international currents they were supposed to be navigating.


maryrose

Kate:
I am sure Fitz is more than annoyed with the PLames by now and yes Joe only has his current status because his wife used to be a spook.
I knew Rove would not be indicted because MSNBC hasn't been foaming at the mouth about it.
Looks like Hadley's confirmation is moving along. Things are getting done despite the dems and left's best efforts to obstruct and hold the country hostage with their loopy{think Jack Murtha} ideas.

clarice

An auto-da-fé gives me the shivers. I'd settle for a publishing ban.

Someday the Wilson Gambit will be a case study in disinformation campaigns.I do so hope that at some point soon more than we few will see it for what it was and punish those involved. OTOH perhaps being married to the Ambassador and having to flit about to book signings attended by DUmmies may be punishment enough.

Seixon

*Cough*

Kate

maryrose: I can't watch Hardball anymore but I do steal a peek. Wonder if Matthews was annoyed at being punked by Wilson. I notice Shuster hasn't been as visible. Of course they might be resting him for Rove's indictment week, since Shuster thinks it will be the greatest event in the history of mankind.

Rick Ballard

"Sorry Rick,little green elves are a protected species."

My dear Mr Uk, he is no more an elf than he is an elk. He is Gollum, sprung to life from Tolkien's pen. The photograph you posted proves it. He has obviously had his ears cropped and pointed teeth capped but he remains Gollum. A fair test would have him say 'my precious', the sibilance of his response would reveal all.

Gollum is not protected.

Specter

Hey all,

lurker - yes I saw that. I have been paying attention to the spin over there. Too sad.

Here is what Marc Ash wrote back to me:

Specter, Yes, you are access denied. I OK'd it. We received a lot of complaints, and lost patience.

Marc Ash, Executive Director - t r u t h o u t
mailto:director@truthout.org

Not only that, but it appears that they have now blocked all access from yahoo.com. Talk about not wanting people to add rain to their already washed out parade....LOL

topsecretk9

Shoot, I am busier than snot right now...so um, any word, grand announcement? What's the deal?

Sue

Specter,

Complaints about what? Being right? ::grin::

PeterUK

Mr Ballard,
Yes,but this Gollum has a tiny green elf which resides in his left ear,this elf is a magic elf,an elfin sorcerer,which is why Loophole calls him Sorc.

clarice

Specter, Bravo! A star will go up on the JOM wall--no name of course, this is our way--but it shines for you.

topsecretk9

nothing?

Patton

I think Fitz just gave Karl the weekend to get his garage in order...

Then its frog marching on Monday!!

JM Hanes

Clarice

"Asking for volunteers!"

LOL! I posted an extended comment in the same vein over at the http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001399.php>Wash.Note. BTW, I had alarming dreams myself last night. I question the timing.

clarice

Well you Jeff and TM (maybe some others) posted rational comments, but I can't read much of emptywheel and the others without shedding desperately needed brain cells.

Kate

You know, I don't even think Fitzgerald is in town. He was in town Monday for the Libby hearing.

My sense, if he decided to ask for an indictment of Rove, it would take him several sessions at least to bring them up to speed. Remember, this GJ was not the special one that heard all the witnesses and evidence.

Also, Fitz probably might want to take his case for a test run and get lots of input from the GJ, this will take time. Also, maybe they'd like to see Cooper. As far as I'm concerned, he had a motive to lie too. His big story on "War on Wilson" had questionable sourcing. He couldn't judge that based on what we know from his conversations with Libby and Rove. So where did that come from????

JM Hanes

Rick

Auto-da-fé -- you have been missed! I'm afraid all we're really going to get is http://paradoxplace.com/Perspectives/Italian%20Images/images/Siena%20&%20South/Siena/Il%20Palio%201.jpg>this which looks like http://paradoxplace.com/Perspectives/Italian%20Images/images/Siena%20&%20South/Siena/Il%20Palio%202.jpg>this to those who can't see the big picture, and like http://mirjam.h.free.fr/voyage/toscane%202005/siena/contrade/DSCF0028.jpg>this to those who are convinced they do, but don't.

clarice

Here's Mark Corallo's latest post:
Bump and Update: This just in from Mark Corallo [via e-mail in response to a question I e-mailed him]:

Nothing going on. I was told by several journalists who were down at the courthouse that the Grand Jury was not meeting today. Of course, the GJ may be meeting at the undisclosed location (as VP Cheney is out of town and not using it today...)http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014885.html

Another Hard Candy Fitzmas

clarice

JMH, the paleo in Sienna is really something--cheating, bribery, dangerous racing and giant meals laid out before and after in each contrade..Blessing the jockeys and horses in the cathedral beforehand, of course. I love Italy so much.

JM Hanes

Rick -

Speaking of Savonarola, have you read http://www.elise.com/books/el/archives/a_world_lit_only_by_fire_william_manchester.php>A World Lit Only by Fire? Despite a certain predictable snark from the usual suspects, it's one of a very few books I simply couldn't put down. If the period interests you, it's a must read. If the period doesn't interest you, it's a must read. :)


Maybee -

Wherever you are, bless you for pointing out that quotation marks are not actually needed in URL's! Life is so much easier now....

clarice

You don't? I missed that. Let me try.
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014885.html>Bump

It's true!!! Yeah--so much easier...


Specter

BTW - Through some obfuscation I pulled a "Hiltzik" over at TO. Let's play "Who Am I?" It should be obvious though.

Sue

Specter,

Or you the one who continually says "Be patient. Practice tolerance, kindness and charity"?

::grin::

Doesn't that one drive you nuts? I want to register just to say shut up, but I won't do that. ::grin::

Sara (Squiggler)

I feel I'm in the presence of rock stars and heroes. Windnsea gets a link at American Thinker and Sexion gets a link at NRO Media Blog. Way to go guys. And Sexion, great job!

Clarice -- must be something we both ate. I, too, had a nightmare last night where, for some unknown reason, I was flying from San Diego to Washington, DC to testify in some unknown hearing and left my laptop on the plane and it turned up in the offices of the NYT and all my most private correspondence was "outed" and published on the NYT editorial page. I woke up in a cold sweat and had to go check to make sure my computer was still where I left it. Shudders!

Sara (Squiggler)

Apologies - SEIXON not my misspelling.

Rick Ballard

JMH,

I haven't read Manchester's book but I believe I'll try it. It looks pretty interesting. Most of my understanding of the period is derived from Indro Montanelli's L'Italia della Controriforma and L'Italia del Seicento. Montanelli's Roman/Italian history series is the best popular work in the area that I have come accross.

Lurker

"

Hey all,

lurker - yes I saw that. I have been paying attention to the spin over there. Too sad.

Here is what Marc Ash wrote back to me:

Specter, Yes, you are access denied. I OK'd it. We received a lot of complaints, and lost patience.

Marc Ash, Executive Director - t r u t h o u t
mailto:director@truthout.org

Not only that, but it appears that they have now blocked all access from yahoo.com. Talk about not wanting people to add rain to their already washed out parade....LOL"

I noticed a few posts at TO that might be yours.

Looks like Truthout is on its way to status of defunct, just the same as Polipundit and others that endorse censorship, banning, and lack of freedom. Sounds like communism and socialism, huh?

Kate

The far left on those boards are Stalinist. They are scary really. No free speech, no debate, and enemies are to be destroyed. They talk often of wanting Rove and Libby executed for their crimes. I kind you not.

Lurker

Executed? No kidding! Tis the same as Iran sentencing a young lady to death for killing one of the boys that were raping her.

Here is a perspective from the 1990's by Jonah Goldberg, which appears to be repetitive in WDC and make more people want to stay out of politics - too costly and risky:


Blumenthal V. Plame

windansea

Sara & Clarice

stay away from PUK's sofa shrimp...they get you every time :)

clarice

Lurker, one day I want to write an article about how readers should assess reports of gj proceedings and the Blumenthal example will get a big play. Besides being illustrative, of course, it is evidence of his very bad character.

fletcher hudson

Tim Russert will be on C-SPAN today at 3:30 pm EST discussing how fathers set examples to, among other things, tell the truth. If I am not mistaken they will accept call-ins.
Maybe one us can get through.

boris

Pushback should be against the person pushing, not his wife.

Valerie was a participant in setting up a CIA mission that went public. After publicly attacking the administration in the MSM, the fact that Joe's CIA connection was his own wife was never going to remain undiscovered.

That obvious result is the only plausible explanation for the "leak" having multiple independent sources. Speculators like Jeff claiming multiple independent disclosers are all "guilty" can't deny that multiple independent disclosures implies an "unstoppable" leak.

verner

Boris, an "unstoppable" leak that was first generated by Mr. Wilson himself. Don't forget Libby's five witnesses that will swear under oath that Wilson told them that Valerie worked for the CIA.

There are a cast of characters that I would also like to question under oath as to whether they knew Valerie worked for the CIA--including Amd. Chas Freeman--whose career crossed Wilson's in both the ME and Africa, Ambassador Peck--ditto, Tom Andrews, the director of Win Without War, and a guy who gets rave reviews from Joe in his bio/self-love fest (although he never names Iraq Policy Information Project or Fenton COmmunications),Ira Arlook of Fenton, Mel Goodman and Bob White of CIP, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern and the rest of the "steering committee" of the VIPS, David Corn of the Nation, Walter Pincus, Katrina Vanden Heuvel of the Nation and IPS, Dana Priest and her husband William Goodfellow, Marc Grossman, Rand Biers, Mary McCarthy, RIchard Clarke, and a whole host of others.

Of course, I would require a polygraph for any of the above.

And as far as the fabricated "alleged" leak--If it is proven that it was not "illegal" to "out" Val, as circumstantial evidence points to (ie Fitz totally avoiding the subject)--the public has every right to know

a) who in the CIA sent Wilson without making him sign a confidentiality agreement,

b)who referred the matter to the JD, and

c) who leaked the referral from the CIA to the JD to the press.

Since we know everything else, we have a right to know all of that. Fitz owes it to US--the people who are paying him. Libby can not be fairly judged without full knowledge of what went on, especially in light of the fact that wilson has been proven a total liar and fabricator.

And I'm sure that our "brothers" on the left, who are so passionate in getting the "truth out" will join us in the effort to get all of the above released to the public.

verner

"But isn't Democratic a bit right wing for the the denzins of the DenimUnderwear?"

PUK, to quote David Fenton "no, I'm not a Marxist, I'm a Democrat."

It about sums it up.

God bless Zell Miller. Jefferson and Jackson have got to be rolling over in their graves.

verner

Lurker,

The contrast between Blumenthal and his attempt to destroy Monica Lewinsky, Kathleen Willey and others is a very good thing to bring up with Democrat defenders of Val "I'm wearing Armani" Plame.

I would suggest reading Christopher Hitchens' "No One Left To Lie To." Great book.

And what did the left do about accusations that we had a rapist in the White House? Why defend Clinton tooth and nail naturally.

They never went after Juanita Broadderick--they just ignored her very damning charges (backed up by several contemporary witnesses.) They knew better. She was too convincing and credible.

By the way, Juanita Broadderick has never made one dime off of telling her story--unlike the Wilson-Plames.

By the way, in case you all haven't noticed, Sid Vicious is now writing for one of Soros' outfits.

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Wilson/Plame