"Massacre"

The NY Times has coverage of the awful story about the killing of 24 Iraqi civilians by US Marines.

I don't have time to be sure I am expressing myself correctly, but I don't want to duck this, either, so let me blurt this out - this sort of incident is a deplorable but predictable consequence of putting people in a violent and confusing situation.  Obviously, almost all of our troops conduct themselves with a high degree of professionalism and appropriate restraint, but this sort of incident can not be a complete surprise.  Folks who supported this war (as I did) need to shoulder some responsibility for the consequences.

Well.  An excerpt:

A military investigation into the deaths of two dozen Iraqis last November is expected to find that a small number of marines in western Iraq carried out extensive, unprovoked killings of civilians, Congressional, military and Pentagon officials said Thursday.

Two lawyers involved in discussions about individual marines' defenses said they thought the investigation could result in charges of murder, a capital offense. That possibility and the emerging details of the killings have raised fears that the incident could be the gravest case involving misconduct by American ground forces in Iraq.

...

Evidence indicates that the civilians were killed during a sustained sweep by a small group of marines that lasted three to five hours and included shootings of five men standing near a taxi at a checkpoint, and killings inside at least two homes that included women and children, officials said.

That evidence, described by Congressional, Pentagon and military officials briefed on the inquiry, suggested to one Congressional official that the killings were "methodical in nature."

Congressional and military officials say the Naval Criminal Investigative Service inquiry is focusing on the actions of a Marine Corps staff sergeant serving as squad leader at the time, but that Marine officials have told members of Congress that up to a dozen other marines in the unit are also under investigation. Officials briefed on the inquiry said that most of the bullets that killed the civilians were now thought to have been "fired by a couple of rifles," as one of them put it.

...Women and children were among those killed, as well as five men who had been traveling in a taxi near the bomb, which killed Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas of El Paso.

Comments

[boris]

Article on Haditha from last year:

Under US noses, brutal insurgents rule Sunni citadel

Guardian gains rare access to Iraqi town and finds it fully in control of 'mujahideen'

Omer Mahdi in Haditha and Rory Carroll in Baghdad
Monday August 22, 2005
The Guardian

Claims from Haditha residents could be terrorist propaganda. Until the facts are known responding to hysteria with mitigating circumstances is warranted.

[verner]

This entire Bush Lied argument is exactly like Al Capone's vault. Remember when Geraldo opened the famous vault and there was nothing inside? Did that mean that Al Capone was not a criminal? NO.

Stockpiles can be easily moved, and after that visit from Rocky to Syria, and a little help from Russian and French friends who sold him the stuff in the first place, it would have been nothing for Saddam to slip the stuff on trucks and move it to a more secure location. He even had a history of doing the same thing during GW1--flying his airforce to Iran.

I also think it is very strange, that inspectors couldn't find traces of stuff they knew he had--and no evidence of what had happened to it. Almost like a crime scene wiped clean of finger prints and washed with bleach.

Besides, as any intelligent person knows--the scientists and infrastructure are what really matter, and he was keeping all that intact--including attempts to buy stuff off the shelf from Korea.

[verner]

Boris, before the war, Kenneth Pollack estimated that 1 in 10 people in Iraq were involved in Saddam's security apparatus. Most were members of his own or allied Sunni tribes. Of course it has taken a while to clean what's left of these people out. What did anyone expect? Does that mean we abandon the rest of the 90% of the Iraqi population? That's what Murtha wants, by making stupid, ahistorical parallels to Vietnam.

Well, here's a comparison to Vietnam we should remind them of. When we pulled out, and cut off all aid to South Vietnam and Cambodia--the communist liars took over and millions of people were butchered. And who was responsible for that? Democrats like John Kerry. Marxist peaceniks like Dana Priest's husband William Goodfellow who denied the Cambodian holocaust like his buddy Noam Chomsky. It's all on record for anyone who cares to look.

[Sara (The Squiggler)]

I offer this from the Washington Post:

Mr. Murtha's Rush to Judgment

Sunday, May 28, 2006; B06

A year ago I was charged with two counts of premeditated murder and with other war crimes related to my service in Iraq. My wife and mother sat in a Camp Lejeune courtroom for five days while prosecutors painted me as a monster; then autopsy evidence blew their case out of the water, and the Marine Corps dropped all charges against me ["Marine Officer Cleared in Killing of Two Iraqis," news story, May 27, 2005].

So I know something about rushing to judgment, which is why I am so disturbed by the remarks of Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) regarding the Haditha incident ["Death Toll Rises in Haditha Attack, GOP Leader Says," news story, May 20]. Mr. Murtha said, "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

In the United States, we have a civil and military court system that relies on an investigatory and judicial process to make determinations based on evidence. The system is not served by such grand pronouncements of horror and guilt without the accuser even having read the investigative report.

Mr. Murtha's position is particularly suspect when he is quoted by news services as saying that the strain of deployment "has caused them [the Marines] to crack in situations like this." Not only is he certain of the Marines' guilt but he claims to know the cause, which he conveniently attributes to a policy he opposes.

Members of the U.S. military serving in Iraq need more than Mr. Murtha's pseudo-sympathy. They need leaders to stand with them even in the hardest of times. Let the courts decide if these Marines are guilty. They haven't even been charged with a crime yet, so it is premature to presume their guilt -- unless that presumption is tied to a political motive.

ILARIO PANTANO

Jacksonville, N.C.

The writer served as a Marine enlisted man in the Persian Gulf War and most recently as a platoon commander in Iraq.

[Pofarmer]

ed and boris.

I'm thinking along the same lines as you guys are. So, the killings all happened with a couple of firearms. Did they belong to those Marines?

[Polarbear]

Folks, we should not be surprised by this incident. We are involved in a war and specifically, a counterinsurgency war that, by its nature, is fought in and among the civilian population. Counter-insurgency battles tend to be decentralized with small units operating on their own, fighting against an enemy that seeks concealment within the population. The stress and challenges for small unit leaders is enormous. Squad leaders are called upon to make decisions that most Americans, comfortable on their TV couch or peering into internet computer screens, sipping lattes, can not comprehend and should not judge without all the facts. In combat, small unit leaders must make frequent risk filled; split second; friend or foe decisions. I am betting that the intent of the Marines involved in the Haditha incident was not to murder but to destroy a perceived foe. Mistakes in combat happen and bad mistakes are punished. Historically, counter-insurgencies last from ten to twelve years. Folks, we are three years into that process and over the next seven to nine years, this is going to happen again. As citizens of a country that has sent service men to fight this war, let us not make the same mistake as the Viet Nam War, where we used service men and women; our own sons, daughters, brothers, sisters and neighbors as political sacrificial pawns to gain momentum for an antiwar movement.
Former Commanding Officer (1981-1982): Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment

[kim]

Who'd do that? Lemme at 'em.
==================