The NY Times has coverage of the awful story about the killing of 24 Iraqi civilians by US Marines.
I don't have time to be sure I am expressing myself correctly, but I don't want to duck this, either, so let me blurt this out - this sort of incident is a deplorable but predictable consequence of putting people in a violent and confusing situation. Obviously, almost all of our troops conduct themselves with a high degree of professionalism and appropriate restraint, but this sort of incident can not be a complete surprise. Folks who supported this war (as I did) need to shoulder some responsibility for the consequences.
Well. An excerpt:
A military investigation into the deaths of two dozen Iraqis last November is expected to find that a small number of marines in western Iraq carried out extensive, unprovoked killings of civilians, Congressional, military and Pentagon officials said Thursday.
Two lawyers involved in discussions about individual marines' defenses said they thought the investigation could result in charges of murder, a capital offense. That possibility and the emerging details of the killings have raised fears that the incident could be the gravest case involving misconduct by American ground forces in Iraq.
...
Evidence indicates that the civilians were killed during a sustained sweep by a small group of marines that lasted three to five hours and included shootings of five men standing near a taxi at a checkpoint, and killings inside at least two homes that included women and children, officials said.
That evidence, described by Congressional, Pentagon and military officials briefed on the inquiry, suggested to one Congressional official that the killings were "methodical in nature."
Congressional and military officials say the Naval Criminal Investigative Service inquiry is focusing on the actions of a Marine Corps staff sergeant serving as squad leader at the time, but that Marine officials have told members of Congress that up to a dozen other marines in the unit are also under investigation. Officials briefed on the inquiry said that most of the bullets that killed the civilians were now thought to have been "fired by a couple of rifles," as one of them put it.
...Women and children were among those killed, as well as five men who had been traveling in a taxi near the bomb, which killed Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas of El Paso.
Article on Haditha from last year:
Claims from Haditha residents could be terrorist propaganda. Until the facts are known responding to hysteria with mitigating circumstances is warranted.
Posted by: boris | May 28, 2006 at 09:49 AM
This entire Bush Lied argument is exactly like Al Capone's vault. Remember when Geraldo opened the famous vault and there was nothing inside? Did that mean that Al Capone was not a criminal? NO.
Stockpiles can be easily moved, and after that visit from Rocky to Syria, and a little help from Russian and French friends who sold him the stuff in the first place, it would have been nothing for Saddam to slip the stuff on trucks and move it to a more secure location. He even had a history of doing the same thing during GW1--flying his airforce to Iran.
I also think it is very strange, that inspectors couldn't find traces of stuff they knew he had--and no evidence of what had happened to it. Almost like a crime scene wiped clean of finger prints and washed with bleach.
Besides, as any intelligent person knows--the scientists and infrastructure are what really matter, and he was keeping all that intact--including attempts to buy stuff off the shelf from Korea.
Posted by: verner | May 28, 2006 at 11:24 AM
Boris, before the war, Kenneth Pollack estimated that 1 in 10 people in Iraq were involved in Saddam's security apparatus. Most were members of his own or allied Sunni tribes. Of course it has taken a while to clean what's left of these people out. What did anyone expect? Does that mean we abandon the rest of the 90% of the Iraqi population? That's what Murtha wants, by making stupid, ahistorical parallels to Vietnam.
Well, here's a comparison to Vietnam we should remind them of. When we pulled out, and cut off all aid to South Vietnam and Cambodia--the communist liars took over and millions of people were butchered. And who was responsible for that? Democrats like John Kerry. Marxist peaceniks like Dana Priest's husband William Goodfellow who denied the Cambodian holocaust like his buddy Noam Chomsky. It's all on record for anyone who cares to look.
Posted by: verner | May 28, 2006 at 11:36 AM
I offer this from the Washington Post:
Posted by: Sara (The Squiggler) | May 28, 2006 at 08:43 PM
ed and boris.
I'm thinking along the same lines as you guys are. So, the killings all happened with a couple of firearms. Did they belong to those Marines?
Posted by: Pofarmer | May 28, 2006 at 10:36 PM
Folks, we should not be surprised by this incident. We are involved in a war and specifically, a counterinsurgency war that, by its nature, is fought in and among the civilian population. Counter-insurgency battles tend to be decentralized with small units operating on their own, fighting against an enemy that seeks concealment within the population. The stress and challenges for small unit leaders is enormous. Squad leaders are called upon to make decisions that most Americans, comfortable on their TV couch or peering into internet computer screens, sipping lattes, can not comprehend and should not judge without all the facts. In combat, small unit leaders must make frequent risk filled; split second; friend or foe decisions. I am betting that the intent of the Marines involved in the Haditha incident was not to murder but to destroy a perceived foe. Mistakes in combat happen and bad mistakes are punished. Historically, counter-insurgencies last from ten to twelve years. Folks, we are three years into that process and over the next seven to nine years, this is going to happen again. As citizens of a country that has sent service men to fight this war, let us not make the same mistake as the Viet Nam War, where we used service men and women; our own sons, daughters, brothers, sisters and neighbors as political sacrificial pawns to gain momentum for an antiwar movement.
Former Commanding Officer (1981-1982): Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion 1st Marine Regiment
Posted by: Polarbear | May 31, 2006 at 01:24 PM
Who'd do that? Lemme at 'em.
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Posted by: kim | May 31, 2006 at 01:33 PM