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May 16, 2006

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Draft

The country is running on a Plame agenda and has been since she tried to leak herself with Collin Powell.

MayBee

Well, we'll see. Walton has said he doesn't want to retry the case for war, and warned that Libby shouldn't want that with a DC jury. So getting into details about what Joe Wilson lied about may be a problem on many levels.
I only hope that Walton limits the prosecution and the defense in a symmetrical fashion.

Wilson has said so many things, I do think a good defense attorney, even if very limited, will give the jury a good taste of what Libby was counteracting.

The best, imho, will be the five people that will testify Joe talked about his wife being CIA. The idea that people were talking about it should give the jurors reasonable doubt that Libby was confused or that reporters knew, but (because they are afraid of consequences, ala' Fitz) shaded their own testimony.

Dwilkers

OT, but I can't help myself.

A Washington Post editorial from yesterday, an excerpt of which is quoted today in my local paper.

IT SHOULD NOT take the Supreme Court to define what it means to "increase" the air pollution put out by power plants. An increase, as any reasonably fluent English speaker would know, has taken place if a plant is producing more pollution than it used to.

That is so rich. I'll be more accepting of that sort of snark from WaPo editors when they learn the difference between a budget cut and a reduction in the scheduled budget increase.

Neo

Here a little piece on Judge Reggie Walton. Seems he is coming off a Rush Limbaugh case involving some "whistleblowers."

Sue

Walton said it is irrelevant whether Wilson was right or wrong in his criticism of the administration.

What matters is that Libby and the White House were determined to respond to Wilson‘s accusations

So the judge isn't going to allow this case to become one of why we went to war but he is going to allow Fitz to stand there and tell a jury that Libby was determined to respond to a whistleblower? This is a joke. Either Walton allows Libby to tell the jury what he was responding to, the lies, or it really does become the trial of a smear against a whistleblower. Sheesh...

Neo

The other way to look at Walton's comments is that Libby can say Wilson was wrong, but Wilson doesn't get to defend himself.

Sue

For the life of me, I can't figure out how they are going to have a trial. Nothing is relevant.

lurker

Wilson's accusations == whistleblower? Hmmm, I think not.

I think that a person would be a whistleblower if the revelations are true, accurate, and factual.

If I remember rightly, Wilson's only accusations were that WH / WH adm outed or leaked Plame's identity as NOC / classified / covert.

If this is the case, Wilson would not be able to prove that his accusations were true, correct, and factual.

JHMO.

Looks like the Libby Team has to prove that 1) Wilson's accusations were incorrect and false 2) and that Libby was not the original source by proving that Plame's identity was already known before the first reporter began asking Libby questions. Who was the first reporter that contacted Libby?

Cooper? Then it goes back to TM's comment about Cooper versus Libby.

Like York says, it shows that this is a very small and weak case and because Fitz did not file the big case, everything beyond Wilson's accusation is irrelevant.

Pete

TM - Thanks for the link to the Pincus article. Very interesting perspective.

I am in agreements with Pincus's comments. The real issue is how the White House handled evidence before the war (and there is plenty of evidence that it was mishandled).

One of the lessons of Watergate was that the coverup was far more damaging than the initial crime. The same is the case in the Plame affair.

Sue

Lurker,

I don't think you have to have true, accurate, and factual information to be considered a whistleblower. Truth be told, Wilson can't be qualified as a whistleblower to begin with, but that is the status that Fitz and Walton have given him. Wilson's accusations were that the VP sent him to Niger, he debunked the forgeries and the VP ignored his report, twisting intelligence. That was what they were pushing back against. I think his wife was a side show, something that didn't really stick with them, other than proving what a boondoggle Wilson went on.

lurker

Markinkowski

"Jim is a great guy - ask Larry Johnson or Joe Wilson! Anybody who knows him will tell you - Jim's got what it takes, he's certainly more than qualified. He's got the smarts, the heart and the willingness to fight for what we value so dearly. This is a commitment from an American who truly loves his country. No one has defended the outing of his former colleague Valerie Plame more vigorously or eloquently than Mr. Marcinkowski."

Any Michigan posters here?

Sue

Pete,

The evidence pre-war would be used against Bush if he had gone the other way with it and something had happened. There is just enough to make the case for and just enough to make the case against. And plenty of years, pre-Bush, to bolster Bush's argument that Saddam had WMDs.

clarice

Pete, you are wrong. Cecil, in particular has compellingly shown how wrong you are. But your belief shows how well the Wilson Gambit worked to shape public opinion.

Sue

lurker,

Holey Moley!!!! I should send a contribution to the republican in the race. Anyone being vouched for by Scary Larry needs to be in a funny farm.

maryrose

pete:
there is no coverup in the Plame case. Dishonesty abounds with Wilson Plame and reporters. Fitz has been led astray,they are playing him now.

JM Hanes

I think Walton may be a Republican, or made a contribution to a Republican somewhere, but I'm not sure.

Wilson's a wildcard, so I'm not so sure the Defense would actually want to call him when push came to shove. I suspect that Joe is considerably more personable, and certainly more articulate, than Libby; the comparison may not be flattering. Better to have Wilson on paper, Libby in the flesh. Have they talked about whether Val can testify? If I had to choose between the Mr. & Mrs., I think I might actually rather put the lady in the chair.

Fitz may not have been kidding when he said he lies awake worrying about what the Defense is going to do in this trial. He's got to be extremely careful about what doors he opens when he puts on his case. I'm not sure it particularly works to his advantage if his jurors are not big readers either, and/or don't follow the news all that carefully. Fitz is not the hometown team here, and it may not be hard to make it look like he's really overreaching.

Pete

Sue - Stating that someone may object to something is no excuse for not doing something right. The right thing to do was to present an accurate picture and let the people decide.

Pete

Perjury and obstruction of justice IS a coverup. Lets see what the jury says.

Sue

Pete,

Let me repeat what I said...

The evidence pre-war would be used against Bush if he had gone the other way with it and something had happened. There is just enough to make the case for and just enough to make the case against. And plenty of years, pre-Bush, to bolster Bush's argument that Saddam had WMDs.

You have the luxury of 20/20 hindsight to judge him. He didn't have that luxury.

Dwilkers

Sigh.

I cruised over to TalkLeft see what they were saying about Leopold today, see if they had a countdown or were all excited or whatever. Nothing on all that.

Instead I find this this little jewel and learn that the left is saying Tony Snow is using a racial epithet by saying the NSA program was a "Tar Baby".

What, you didn't know Tar Baby was a racial reference? Me either. I thought it was literary.

Syl

lurker

I think that a person would be a whistleblower if the revelations are true, accurate, and factual.

No, actually a whistleblower can be mistaken. However there is a requirement in the statute that the whistleblower has direct knowledge of what he is whistleblowin' on. Wilson ain't got that--he made it up. He has no direct knowledge of what happened after his oral debriefing.

And obviously he doesn't know what was in the report because he got that part wrong too.

So, anyway, Wilson isn't a whistleblower.

But fitz THINKS he's one and wants to avenge him, ISTM. More important than the hunt for a 'leaker'.

Sue

Tar Baby was an Uncle Remus tale. I'm surprised they still allow Gone With the Wind to be mentioned.

cathyf
I'm not sure it particularly works to his advantage if his jurors are not big readers either, and/or don't follow the news all that carefully. Fitz is not the hometown team here, and it may not be hard to make it look like he's really overreaching.
Be a little careful about the whole DC jury dynamic. As a small child in DC I was taught that you never step out in front of a car with diplomatic plates, even if the driver was stopped at the stop sign and smilingly waving you across. People in DC know that the "big shots" get away with (sometimes literally) murder, while the "little people" get screwed. Fitzgerald has operated so far by convincing the gj that the WH were the big shots and the Wilsons were the little people. It wouldn't take too much overreaching to convince a DC jury that Fitzgerald is the big shot and the WH is the little guy. A lot of them have seen blackmail and vicious bureaucratic infighting up close and personal, and have seen low-level "schemers" wreak havoc with lies. And they know all about phoney "classified" stuff being classified to cover somebody's butt. If not personally as government employees, from their neighbors, parents of their kids' friends, etc.

cathy :-)

(not that) Larry

*PLAN, not plane**********Posted by: clarice May 16, 2006 at 05:14 PM

the supersecret plan to use a supersecret plane, subsequently, if sloppily poohpoohed by
pusillanimous, pussyfooting, supersecret spooks pandering to peace proponents

Sue

Do a search on tar baby. Seems liberals are allowed to use the term.

Syl

Pete

We elected a president to make the heavy decisions. When war is involved I don't need to second guess every detail, I just want the big picture.

And the big picture said Iraq was about more than WMDs.

Going on like this is simply obsessive.

topsecretk9

---The other way to look at Walton's comments is that Libby can say Wilson was wrong, but Wilson doesn't get to defend himself.---

Kind of how I read it...in a way. I think Walton is saying what Wilson said about uranium is irrelevant. IOW's keeping it the small case.

Libby is trying to establish reporters knew this big secret before they talked to Libby -- and so therefore could have mentioned it too him.

Besides which...if they get Miller to admit that she was in contact with Wilson or knew about Plame before she talked to Libby...where exactly did the super secret info originate.

Gary Maxwell

What, you didn't know Tar Baby was a racial reference? Me either. I thought it was literary.

I am sure JimE will be along shortly to accuse you of being a racist. Does not matter ( according to him ) what you thought the term meant.

Sorta like a sexual harassment suit, it only matters what the (perpetually) offended thinks.

Gary Maxwell

Here is a commenter at Talkleft with some common sense administering a well deserved toungue lashing on this latest silliness:

Snow used the expression exactly as it was intended in the original text.

If you think it means something else then you are obviously projecting your own id or you are totally ignorant of the original text.

Either way it doesn't speak well of the intellect of the Left that they haven't truly examined the irony of the Uncle Remus' Tales in regards to racial issues.

I am honestly shocked that some people lack the reading comprehension to understand Snow's reference or that they haven't actually read the literature that they condemn as rascist speech.

Apparently literacy is optional in some wards.

Sue

STANDING OVATION FOR SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY READ THE STORY...

Dwilkers

Yeah I saw some of the comments Gary and was reassured that some folks on the left were upset by the trashing of some fairly famous literature. Do they still make people read Uncle Remus in High School? They did when I attended. Maybe its not PC anymore.

What gets me is that Jeralyn posted that. All in order to score points on a nice guy like Tony Snow. I mean come on, Tony Snow? Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth.

Clearly I have misjudged her. Advanced BDS.

clarice

FNC reported last night that Donna Brazile started the charge that "tar baby" was racist. The never ending smear machine.

PeterUK

JMH,
"If I had to choose between the Mr. & Mrs., I think I might actually rather put the lady in the chair."

Absolutely disasterous,Valerie would turn up looking like Joan of Arc and would twist the lawyer monk round her little finger,as did Milady with her jailer,(Three Musketeers)

Neo

From my reading of tarbaby, Donna Brazile is iliterate at best.

JM Hanes

There may be some regional differences in what "tar baby" connotes, but it's a term I would never employ in ordinary conversation, regardless of its origins. I was surprised to hear Tony Snow use it. I assumed he had no idea that anyone might find it offensive, but I've never heard it used to signify an intractable problem (or some such) before, and I had no clue what he meant by it. When he used it a second time, I thought, oh shit.

I haven't checked out TalkLeft, but in general, I don't think there's been much over thet top reaction. Somebody certainly needed to warn him off.

lurker

Hey, Specter, only a few more hours, huh?

1. No 15 hour meeting last Friday.
2. No floor lock-down last Friday.
3. Rove was not indicated last Saturday.
4. The original 24 hour deadline passed.
5. The 24 business hour deadline is about to pass with no Rove indictment so far.

Who's gonna eat crow? And will he out his sources?

topsecretk9

--Somebody certainly needed to warn him off.--

Exactly...I think people have to quit inferring motive. Everyone makes rhetorical mistakes even liberals. There is nothing wrong with pointing it out. However the lef,t who use NO restraint in their language and treatment of others, cast aspersions of motive just because it gives them a blog topic to ratchet it up - nothing more.

Empty outrage.

JM Hanes

PeterUK -- LOL! I don't think so. I know Plamegate reads like fiction, but in this case it's bad fiction.

Neo

You'd have to be a bigot, or just plain stupid, to think of the "tarbaby" as racist.

I'll sick and tired of dealing with bigots, and the stupid are .. stupid. Stupid is as stupid does.

maryrose

Neo:
Forrest Gump could not have said it better...Oh ...
Some people remain permanently stuck on stupid.

Neo

Speaking of Ron Howard film anecdotes, now that John Nash's (Beautiful Mind) invisible friends have gone to live with Jason Leopold, the rest of us can now go about our business.

JM Hanes

Gary

I was perfectly willing to believe you weren't a racist either, but I was pretty startled, if not shocked, at your woodpile reference myself. I certainly get fed up with gratuitous charges of racism, which is par for the course if you're a southern Republican. At the same time, having spent most of my life in the south, I also understand the sensitivity to terms that have a history & usage of their own which is independent of their origins.

lurker

Another long-time souther Republican here.

Talkleft just posted about the Leopold - Schulz interview.

Leopold-Schulz

JM Hanes

There's stuck on stupid and then there's also stuck on wilfully obtuse.

Barney Frank

JMH,
"but I've never heard it used to signify an intractable problem (or some such) before, and I had no clue what he meant by it.'

Really?

I've never heard it used any other way.

clarice

Me neither, Barney. I've always considered to well-describe the situation where the harder one tries to extricate himself from a situation, the more firmly enmeshed in it he becomes.

PeterUK

JMH,
Never underestimate the power of infatuation.

Fitz,"Your Honour,members of the jury,(choking up)what kind of fiend incarnate would foully traduce such a precious and delicate flower as Ms Plame"(tears running down cheeks)
"That golden hair,those beautiful blue eyes....that perfect alabaster skin,a startled fawn confronted by a vile serpent in a Brooks Brothers suit,(puts hand to forehead and falls sobbing to his knees"

Valerie,"Oh Patsy,I never knew(removes glasses and lets hair flow freely)

Cue music,the Hallelujah Chorus sung by the entire Mormon Tabernacle Choir.A shaft of sunlight shines through the court room window,lighting up Val's hair with fire,giving a tantalising glimpse through the thin white shift)

Outside two blue birds fly around the noose hanging from the grim scaffold.

Judge,"Members of the jury,have you reached a decision?"

The court rises as one,seething across the courtroom floor,baying for blood.

Sue

I have never heard the term tar baby used in a racist way. Their is a moral in the story and the moral is what Snow was referring to.

Sue

JM,

And tar baby is one of them? You should mosey on over to PBS and inform them it is offensive. I don't know where in the south you people are from but I've never heard tar baby used in a way that was derrogative. It is from a classic and it has always been, from my neck of the woods, a problem you can't get out of, just as the story implies.

PeterUK

Clarice,
That isn't fair,you are using the allegory in the original meaning.The French deconstructionists have taught us that words are meaningless..every liberal knows that words can mean anything you want...or nothing at all...it is merely competing narratives.

topsecretk9

Hey, where'd the goal-post post go? Type-Pad hungry?

clarice

PUK and the beauty of that Marxist trick is that it can be selectively used against one's enemies.

Oh well for PC fiends--what about Chinese Finger trap?

cathyf

Hey tsk9 I was just reading it, too! (I think we're being gaslighted. Better go get my pasta strainer to put on my head to protect myself from the mindrays...)

cathy :-)

clarice

Or quicksand?
No, nothing says it as well in few words as tarbaby and I'm sticking with it. Call the police if you choose.

cathyf

hmmm -- I wonder if somebody is going to explain why the term "to gaslight" is racist or something.

JM Hanes

Barney

I don't doubt for a second that Tony Snow meant it that way. I can only tell you that's not the meaning which would be inferred if it were used where I am, and I am not surprised that there's been a reaction. I'd have been surprised if there weren't. I'd be curious to know what part of the country you're from, because, as noted, I suspect that there are regional, if not cultural, differences in play here.

Sue

Is it only racist if a republican uses it?

http://www.salon.com/news/1997/10/08news.html>David Corn

PeterUK

Clarice,
"can be selectively used against one's enemies."
You do know don't you that you can turn a lefty into a paralysed rabbit by doing the same to them.Try it,call one a racist,the moral circuit overload is wonderous to behold.

clarice

There's a marvelous piece today on this very point. Piffle

Semanticleo

You folks still partyin'?

Maguire; Give them another thread, please.

cathyf

He did, leo. Typepad giveth, typepad taketh away...

JM Hanes

I was born in Boston myself, and ended up in the south long before that kind of move became a commmonplace. I've lived in both Carolinas and spent a big chunk of time in south Georgia. I'm here to tell you that my immediate reaction was, Oh Lordy, somebody please tell me he didn't just say that -- and I'm a real Tony Snow fan. You can listen and learn something from it, or you can snark about illiteracy and condescend like regular blue staters. Up to you.

Gary Maxwell

Merrit has a priceless quote up from this AM's exchange with Rove's press guy. He obviously is fed up enough to drop the gloves and say at least partially what he is really feeling i.e. "Jason is a douche bag".

"Again, it is demonstrably false that any meeting took place on Friday (at Patton Boggs or anywhere else). This fraud needs to admit that he is lying and go away for good.....why did Leopold LIE about being a London Sunday Times Reporter?"

Sue

I was born and raised in Texas. I have never heard the term tar baby used in a derrogatory manner.

sbw

JMH,
Tar is an intractably sticky petroleum product. Once the object of tar has become stuck to one hand, using the other gets you increasingly stuck. Please explain how this could be racist?

BTW, the Danish cartoons of Mohammed reminded us that the freedom to offend is a basic principle of free societies -- stipulating, of course, that the freedom to offend does not imply the necessity to do so.

clarice

jmh, I've lived all my life in Wisconsin and D.C., and I never heard the term used derogatively.(Apparently neither has David Corn) Toni Morrison has written a book with that title which I've never read. Is it possible she uses it as a derisive term there? In any event it is certainly impossible in context to miss which usage Snow intended.

boris

JMH, lived in Michigan, West Virginia, Texas, California, Wisconsin ... some folk can take offence at anything but tarbaby is pretty tame stuff.

It's a shame when only minorities can legitimately point out the detrimental effects of white guilt. Now that Brazille has played the race card it would take someone like Bill Cosby to redeem the term.

PeterUK

In the days of cobbled streets,on hot days children used to pick out the tar and mould it,it could be used as amissile on the end of a stick,but as often used to make little figures. As these heated up in hot little hands it would become impossble to put down,simply sticking to whichever digits touched it.Inevitably, the tar got onto cloths,trying to wipe it off just made the stuff spread.The common solvent was butter,which was an even more messy process.
Children took to heart the warnings of the wise old black man,how is that not a positive image?
Now it is time to apply some butter to the Libby indictment.

danking70

The only time I can remember tar baby used as a derogatory term was a SNL number with Richard Pryor.

Sue

Well, this is my last word on the subject, and I doubt Tony Snow utters the words again, but the story of the tar baby is from African folklore. If it has turned into a derrogative remark, it has done so because someone used it that way. It's origins are not from southerners but from Africans themselves.

JM Hanes

Here's http://www.lehigh.edu/~amsp/black-atlantic.htm>Toni Morrison herself:

Tar Baby is also a name, like "nigger," that white people call black children, black girls, as I recall…. At one time, a tar pit was a holy place, at least an important place, because tar was used to build things…. It held together things like Moses' little boat and the pyramids. For me, the tar baby came to mean the black woman who can hold things together.

Gary Maxwell

Dwillers

"see if they had a countdown or were all excited or whatever. Nothing on all that."

You just had a bad address for the festivities . Fire doggie and friends are holding a vigil as we speak.

Cecil Turner
Tar Baby is also a name, like "nigger," that white people call black children, black girls, as I recall….
Toni's out to lunch. "Tar baby" means something (usually a job) that you can't let go of once you touch it . . . just like in the story. American Heritage gives it as:
A situation or problem from which it is virtually impossible to disentangle oneself.
But the most common usage in my experience is getting assigned a thankless but necessary project; and then, because it's unpopular, being unable to turn it over to a replacement (until one leaves the organization). It's relatively common to hear it in meetings when discussing taskers (especially when somebody who owns one is leaving the organization).

This is all too reminiscent of the kerfluffle over "niggardly" a few years back. And somebody (not Tony Snow) ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Gary Maxwell

Danking

Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor is a classic. Trading every escalating derogatory terms

Jungle bunny
Potato face
spook
redneck
spearchucker
honkey
nigger
DEAD HONKEY

I dont rember tar baby in the sequence.

sbw

JMH,
Forty years ago, in college, I paper-clipped together a chain of words to be buried in the "Graveyard of Misspent Words." They included words like gay, liberal, conservative -- whose orignal meanings had been hijacked through misuse. One might add chairman, or human because the suffix "man" has been misconstrued by the ignorant.

There is no reason to add "tar baby" to the list because a few people choose to anguish over it. No other word conveys the meaning of tar baby. Our language is cheapened every day by people who manufacture artificial differences while they minimize distinctions in order to set themselves apart (money becomes bread or dough). The purpose of language is to communicate clearly.

As my mother used to tell me when I objected foolishly to something: "Deal with it!"

lurker

Update to Marc Ash's post

"Update on the Rove Indictment Story

By Marc Ash,

Wed May 17th, 2006 at 12:52:48 PM EDT :: Fitzgerald Investigation


For the past few days, we have endured non-stop attacks on our credibility, and we have fought hard to defend our reputation. In addition, we have worked around the clock to provide additional information to our readership. People want to know more about this, and our job is to keep them informed. We take that responsibility seriously.

Here's what we now know: I spoke personally yesterday with both Rove's spokesman Mark Corallo and Rove's attorney Robert Luskin. Both men categorically denied all key points of our recent reporting on this issue. Both said, "Rove is not a target," "Rove did not inform the White House late last week that he would be indicted," and "Rove has not been indicted." Further, both Corallo and Luskin denied Leopold's account of events at the offices of Patton Boggs, the law firm that represents Karl Rove. They specifically stated again that no such meeting ever occurred, that Fitzgerald was not there, that Rove was not there, and that a major meeting did not take place. Both men were unequivocal on that point.

We can now report, however, that we have additional, independent sources that refute those denials by Corallo and Luskin. While we had only our own sources to work with in the beginning, additional sources have now come forward and offered corroboration to us.

We have been contacted by at least three reporters from mainstream media - network level organizations - who shared with us off-the-record confirmation and moral support. When we asked why they were not going public with this information, in each case they expressed frustration with superiors who would not allow it.


We also learned the following: The events at the office building that houses the law firm of Patton Boggs were not in fact a very well-guarded secret. Despite denials by Corallo and Luskin, there was intense activity at the office building. In fact, the building was staked out by at least two major network news crews. Further, although Corallo and Luskin are not prepared to talk about what happened in the offices of Patton Boggs, others emerging from the building were, both on background and off-the-record. There were a lot of talkers, and they confirmed our accounts. We do have more information, but want additional confirmation before going public with it.

THE 24 HOUR THING

We reported that Patrick Fitzgerald had, "instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 business hours to get his affairs in order...." That does not mean that at the end of that 24-hour period, Fitzgerald is obliged to hold a press conference and make an announcement. It just means that he has given Rove a 24-hour formal notification. Fitzgerald is not obliged to make an announcement at any point; he does so at his own discretion, and not if it compromises his case. So we're all stuck waiting here. Grab some coffee."

Oh my goodness!

danking70

Gary,

well that would figure since I also messed up Shemp's (Shep) name in a previous thread.

Libby's faulty memory defense is looking better and better the more I pipe up....

lurker

Firedoglake is on Rove Indictment Watch, btw.

clarice

lurker, I'm gathering wood for the big fete when that cargo boat comes in. How many hours in Planet Zongo time do I have to get ready?

JM Hanes

"This is all too reminiscent of the kerfluffle over "niggardly" a few years back. And somebody (not Tony Snow) ought to be ashamed of themselves."

No, it's not. Just in case I have not made it clear, I for one have not suggested that anyone ought to be ashamed of themselves nor suggested that Tony Snow intended anything other than the official American Heritage version of the term.

I am, however, telling you that in large parts of the south, that term has been in use as a racial pejorative for a long time. For all I know, and I suspect for all anyone else here knows either, and, indeed, as Sue's observation suggests, the term also pre-dates the Uncle Remus stories that our mavens of literature have cited.

It's an unfortunate mistake in the spokesman for a party trying to gain traction among black voters, as is, IMO, the snide dismissive attitude on display here which I find almost as distasteful as the overwought protestations from the opposition.

PeterUK

"When we asked why they were not going public with this information, in each case they expressed frustration with superiors who would not allow it."

Yes NYT and WAPO refusing to feed red meat to their circulation base.

clarice

Sure, PUK. There's been a major shift in policy, not an utter failure to find evidence to support TruthNot.

JM Hanes

Sounds like they probably had to lock things down just to keep the carnival of reporters at bay.

Patton

It may just be my niggardly nature, or my gay demeanor, but I'd wrap all these tar babies into a faggot and drop them into the
bit bucket.

I apologize in advance if bit bucket offends.

JM Hanes

Kiss off, Patton.

PeterUK

Clarice
"superiors who would not allow it".
Seems rather an oblique way for an editor to hand in his resignation to Pinch.

PeterUK

JMH/Patton,
Looks like you have got yourselves an adhesive juvenile entity there.

Sue

as is, IMO, the snide dismissive attitude on display here which I find almost as distasteful as the overwought protestations from the opposition.

Are you referring to something I said? Because if you are, I find it just as distasteful for you to carry on about the use of tar baby as racism. And coming from Toni Morrison, I simply don't care what someone who would say the following thinks about the use of tar baby as a description for something difficult if not impossible to get out of...in case you have forgotten, Toni Morrison said this about Clinton...

...Years ago, in the middle of the Whitewater investigation, one heard the first murmurs: white skin notwithstanding, this is our first black president. Blacker than any actual black person who could ever be elected in our children's lifetime. After all, Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald's-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas. And when virtually all the African-American Clinton appointees began, one by one, to disappear, when the president's body, his privacy, his unpoliced sexuality became the focus of the persecution, when he was metaphorically seized and body-searched, who could gainsay these black men who knew whereof they spoke?

The first black president, indeed...

Cecil Turner

No, it's not. Just in case I have not made it clear, I for one have not suggested that anyone ought to be ashamed of themselves . . .

I said folks ought to be ashamed of themselves, and I'm specifically talking about folks at TalkLeft and others harping on the perfectly proper use of a perfectly acceptable idiom.

I am, however, telling you that in large parts of the south, that term has been in use as a racial pejorative for a long time.

I've been all over the south, and never heard it used that way. Guess I just don't hang out with enough bigots.

It's an unfortunate mistake in the spokesman for a party . . .

Or a rather ridiculous overreaction by those who want to inject PC-isms into everyone else's speech.

. . . as is, IMO, the snide dismissive attitude on display here . . .

Personally, I believe in the concept of free speech. And that includes the right to choose your own words.

PeterUK

Sue,
I wonder what people like Rice and Powell thought about being compared to Slick Willie....now that is a racial slur.

PeterUK

Cleo is watching folks,not in front of the children.

Kate

Well, President Bush has decided to get every last drop of hard work out of his indicted political aide.

On Monday, Mr. Indicted gives a major speech to the AEI;
Today, the President sent him to the hill on the immigration issue;

When does the carriage turn into a pumpkin.

And who would be the 2, count them 2, network station guys lending support...Shuster and Olbermann, I presume.

clarice

Reminds me of a pot on Volokh today about Prof Churchill. His academic sins included claiming other people's work was his and his was the workof other people. (He cited articles he'd written under other's names to substantiate his false work and plagiarized). Here is is obvious, the "other sources" are no more than journos who'd received the info from JL.

Lurker

"Sounds like they probably had to lock things down just to keep the carnival of reporters at bay."

While Marc Ash seems to imply that Rove indictment is impending, a lockdown doesn't mean that it is. It would be interesting to see what counts Fitz came up with against Rove or no indictment at all.

~and~

"When we asked why they were not going public with this information, in each case they expressed frustration with superiors who would not allow it."

Yes NYT and WAPO refusing to feed red meat to their circulation base."

Er, declining circulation base.

~and~

"Clarice
"superiors who would not allow it".
Seems rather an oblique way for an editor to hand in his resignation to Pinch."

Or the superiors got bitten by the subponeas and want to minimize any further subponeas. Or that they realize their circulation base is declining because of their public efforts in attacking the current WH adm.

~and~

"How many hours in Planet Zongo time do I have to get ready?"

I dunno. Dr Who might have the answer for ya.

clarice

***poSt, not pot** (I'm sorry%^().

Patton

"""Kiss off, Patton.

Posted by: JM Hanes""""

OK , OK...I won't use bit bucket anymore....geesh

maryrose

As a counselor I feel a need to try and defuse this situation. People can misspeak at times and if their heart and motive are true than no offense is meant. Let's try to be peaceful if we can.

Lurker

Geesch, Churchill is being suspended but the good news is that the other teacher's contract will not be renewed. Steve something?

PeterUK

"lock things down" isn't this prison parlance,don't normal people speak of restricted access,or cordoned off,in camera etc?

Lurker

Or the other way around when Challenger blew up, the flight director said, "Lock the doors" (meaning no one can leave the Mission Control Center).

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Wilson/Plame