Powered by TypePad

« Judge Walton Rules On Motions To Compel | Main | Tougher Than He Thinks »

June 04, 2006

Comments

richard mcenroe

These are men. Accused of rape. That is all Susan Estrich knows and all she needs to know. The bastards must be punished for one or the other.

clarice

Very well out, TM. I'm certain I am not the only one appalled by this babble about rape which tries to create the impression that the only just result when such a charge is made--even on no evidence, as here--is a conviction.

Rick Ballard

Put Fitz on it. He'd have those women in jail by Christmas. Karl Rove, too.

MayBee

Your last line is perfect.

[It may have been, and thanks, but I came back for revisions and didn't leave well enough alone.]

DJ Stripclub

"So why not hire Bennett's equal to represent the state?"

Fitz?

The Players are in the clear.

Don't hate the players, hate the game.

DJ Stripclub

"He'd have those women in jail by Christmas."

Or by 786 business hours.

vnjagvet

Maybe Susan can persuade Gloria Allred, patron saint of lost female causes (see, e.g. Amber Frye), to get admitted Pro Hac Vice in N.C. Nifong can then get her appointed special prosecutor.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

I bet Bennett would be quaking in his boots.

clarice

Yeah, that's the ticket..she'll wear him down day after day by making him respond on Greta..

Rook

Show of hands, America. How many among you have known a stripper or prostitute well enough to trust her word?

OK, how about a second time?

(crickets)

MayBee

Oh. Well now you've changed the last line. My praise = kiss of death.

Sharon Milne

Even Gloria seemed to steer clear of this one, early on. As, wonder of wonders, have Jesse (other than the scholarship offer) and Reverend Al. Laughed my a** off early on, watching Sharpton being interviewed about this case, and the talking head didn't even bring up Tawana. Another example of the victors writing the history.

vnjagvet

Now talking as an advisor to LaCrosse (and other young jock) stars all over America:

Rook speaks the truth.

Don't bring them home to either momma or your buddies' house.

And don't be alone with them. It ain't worth the risk.

Warmongering Lunatic

starting with a liar, even though she herself has said nothing publicly

Well, you know, except for the fact that criminal accusations made to the police for the record are, you know, a matter of public record. Just because she didn't say it to a reporter doesn't mean it wasn't said publicly, as incomprehensible as that may be to an ossified member of the Fourth Estate.

Jos Bleau

"Is Mike Nifong, the local prosecutor, really any match for Bob Bennett, the legendary Clinton defender hired by the Duke team parents?"

That just doesn't make any sense to me. Has Estrich spent much time actually trying criminal cases?

This case will hinge on the quality of the underlying police work - either their work is thorough and unimpeachable AND conclusive, or it isn't. No prosecutor will be able to turn bad policework into a conviction in a high publicity case, no matter how powerful.

I have a freind, lets call him Joe, who is a criminl defense attorney who opperates on the Bennett level, when it comes to fees and clients. Joe LOVES high-powered ambitious well educated prosecutors. They will cut deals when the facts are not on the side of an easy win.

The ones he fears are the night-school educated wants-to-spend-rest-of their-life-in-Chickensplit_Alabama-types - who aren't trying to go anywhere - who are ferocius, tenaciuos, smart, and can connect with juries in ways that the high-powered types never will.

opine6

Estrich also thinks Hillary is wonderful, so her judgement leaves a lot to be desired.

Jos Bleau

Obviously, I don't know where Nifong falls on the ambitious/non-ambitious spectrum, but you gotta think it's more towards ambitious.

I just can't get over the classism and elitism of Estrich's argument - and its falsity.

windansea

"George is doing a hell of a job during very difficult times, more power to him. Screw all them people who don't like him."

Mickey Rourke

vnjagvet

Durham ain't Chickensplit. Whether Nifong is ferocious, tenacious and smart and connects well with local juries will be well known to Raleigh/Durham's criminal bar. He has a long track record there.

clarice

IIRC, I read that he mostly handled traffic cases.

clarice

"In his career, Nifong has tried more than 300 cases, about a quarter of them homicides. He has a reputation as a tough trial lawyer who opened all of his files for defense lawyers long before state law required it. But he hasn't tried a case in years. In 1999, he was diagnosed with cancer. Recovery took him out of the courtroom, and he spent the past few years negotiating cases in traffic court.

Nifong was appointed to the position a year ago by Gov. Mike Easley. He remained a little-known figure outside courthouse circles until news of the rape investigation broke."http://www.newsobserver.com/630/story/435392.html

RBMN

The story below was a good indication of the strength of Nifong's case. He has to try and intimidate the defense witnesses just to keep treading water.

From:
Police Arrest Witness In Duke Lacrosse Case On Old Warrant
AP, May 12, 2006
http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-lacros/stories/051206aac.html

DURHAM, N.C. (AP) -A cab driver who has supported an alibi offered by one of the two Duke lacrosse players charged with rape has been arrested on an old shoplifting warrant.

The warrant accuses Moez Mostafa of stealing five purses worth about $250 from a Durham department store in 2003, which he denies. Mostafa told The News & Observer of Raleigh he helped store security locate a woman after he had picked her up from the store and drove her home.

"I am not responsible for what she did inside the store," Mostafa said. "I am just a taxi driver."


Carol Herman

Susan Estrich. The reason Dukakis lost.

One thing's fer sher. It's not a coordinated effort with the donks' spokes-people, is it? Where's the benefit racing after the kids at Duke who are dealing with their own Tawana Brawley, now?

Just when the story was dying off the media vine. Estrich's "suggestion" by the way, is meaningless. The donks have no way to win, now,short of using their lawyers. But as Hugh Hewitt says, if enough people vote, the donks can't steal elections. (And, on their local stuff, where the Reps like Jefferson are "sure thangs" ... exactly how does that help them, overall?

In reading Lubet's book, he goes back to Alger Hiss' lawsuit against Whittaker Chambers. And, it hit's ya; who would even remember that Adeli Stevenson was a character witness for Hiss!

You bet, Americans have been making choices at the ballot box that points out, like Data Mining does, that if enough people participate we come to go outcomes! In other words all the risks are spread over a broad spectrum. And, that bad guys lose more often, than not.

Now, as a separate issue, tell me why college kids have to hire strippers? In the 1970's nobody associated costs with the new sexuality. Consequences showed up just the same. Data Mining, itself, in time, exposes trends by the trails of examples left in what would otherwise be needles in haystacks. Or dust.

Betty Friedman

Susan Estrich and her friends are those who give feminist a bad name. The once noble goals of equal opportunity and mutual respect have been replaced with blind male-hating and boy bashing. These women don't care about justice or fairness, all they care about is making the woman's word uncontested and final regarding any issue.

Men being silent has gevin these women grab for all in changing public policy to their advantage.

maryrose

In the interest of all concerned this case should be reassigned to someone who is not running for re-election at the same time. That's why the case has been delayed. We need a quick resolution so these young men can get their lives back and the women in question can continue their quest for meaningful employment.

mariner
I would think that the only non-chilling outcome would be prosecutions and convictions, and that, IMHO, is not going to happen based on the evidence we've seen.

Never underestimate human stupidity (or racism).

Men have been convicted all over this country of crimes just like this on evidence just as flimsy.

Carol Herman

NiFong wants a reputation bigger than just in Durham. he wants national recognition. And, this case brought it to him. He knows it's a loser; so he's postponed the trial for more than a year. Which just means he makes it worse for the players, as they dangle.

And, he squeezes on the media for "more story."

It's anybody's guess how NiFong ends up in the "glorification game." There will be those in the media who'll polish his apple. But in a world where newspapers go begging; and the nutworks have lost core audiences; what you do know is that you wouldn't invest in the media business to make money, now.

Would you bet?

NiFong won't win. Sneddon didn't against Michael Jackson. And, in Palm Springs, now that Rush's case is over, Ann Coulter is being accused of "running out of her polling place" (because she was told she was in the wrong place.) She found the address the poll workers sent her to; so now she's being charged with a FELONY. Florida isn't the laughing stock of the nation, yet, either. They just keep on giving and giving. While, in 49 other states, people today become even more grateful that our Supreme's stepped in to stop Florida in its tracks in 2000.

There's something wrong with the credentialing system that produces the kinds of lawyers that we're getting. I wonder if in time this can be fixed? Maybe, it starts when you learn your haarvard credential makes people laugh?

Gary Maxwell

This bright light was the campaign manager for Mike Dukakis. One of the more memorable face plants off the the high board of national elections in our history.

She can be plenty bright, but like a lot of very liberal people, sees everything through a lefty prism that distorts her perspective.

It aint the high power lawyers who are laying waste to Nifong's professional reputation. And if you got a skunk of a case, perfume will not help, even if it comes in a $330/hour package.

Betty Friedan

Most f what Gary Maxwell said went right over my head, but I like the way he consiced his comment, "...if you have a skunk of a case, perfume won't help".. lol!

I like that saying "you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear" too.

I hope there's a way for these boys to sue the state of NC and Durham's prosecutor's office.

Betty

The second dancer in the Duke lacrosse case told police early on that allegations of rape were a "crock" and that she was with the accuser the entire evening except for a period of less than five minutes.

The second dancer, Kim Roberts, made that statement when she was first contacted by Durham police one week after the party where the first escort service dancer said she was gang raped by three men.

http://moneyrunner.blogspot.com/2006/06/more-on-duke-rape-case-second-dancer.html

Betty friedan


Another police note obtained by the defense says the alleged victim acknowledged having two beers before arriving at the party and that she and Pittman both had a rum and coke after their arrival.

The accuser also told police that she used a vibrating sex toy during a dance in a hotel room for a male and female, but she told police that she had not had sex in the week before the party, the note says.

However, a male friend of the accuser said that he had sex with her that week and that he drove her to three other sexual encounters, according to the friend's statement.

Osborn also claims in the court documents that the nurse who examined the alleged victim was in training and not yet certified.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/08/duke.lacrosse/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

Betty Friedan

Just when you think this case couldn't get any weaker, more information comes to light showing the complete incompetence of district attorney Mike Nifong.

The only thing left to make this case even weaker would be the accuser herself finally coming forward to admit that she lied about the whole thing, which would make it even harder for district attorney to win the case, but Mike Nifong would probably ignore that piece of evidence as well in his quest to maliciously prosecute these young men.

Betty Friedan

The stripper originally claimed that the second stripper helped with the rape!

Just when you think this case hit rock bottom, you find a sub-basement.

If Mike Nifong doesn't get disbarred after this, then there is a corrupt system in Durham that protects rich white guys.

AFFIDAVIT OF COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO SUPPRESS NON-TESTIMONIAL PHOTOGRAPHS

3 (b) The probable cause affidavit implies there is no question that [deleted] was sexually assaulted on March 14, 2006, at 610 N. Buchanan by three men. But three days before Investigator Himan signed his affidavit, March 20, 2006, at 10:10am., Investigator Himan interviewed Kim Pittman, the only eyewitness to the events of March 14, 2006, at 610 N. Buchanan. Before Ms. Pittman was granted extremely favorable bond consideration by District Attorney Nifon personally on april 17, 2006, she told investigator Himan [ deleted ] allegation that she was sexually assaulted was a “crock.” Instead Investigator Himan alleged that [ deleted ] “reported that she was sexually assaulted for an approximate 30 minute period.”

3 (e), (8) She told Investigator Himan first that she had consumed a 24 ounce bottle of beer and thereafter that she had consumed two twenty-two ounce Ice House beers. Finally, She told the S.A.N.E nurse in training that Kim Pittman assisted the players in her alleged sexual assault and that Kim Pittman stole all her “money and everything.”

Mitchell

The local word today is that a well-qualified private lawyer is looking at running as a write-in candidate against Nifong.

That would be great. Not great for Nifong, however.

Betty Friedan

We need to get the word out! Nifong doesn't seem t posses the integrity a DA should.

A great place to view that unbiased facts is:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/ourcall/index.cgi?501

Betty Friedan

Ever since every sexist and racist group descended onto Duke to publicly condemn these boys, I went into over drive trying to make people consider that these boys wouldn't have submitted to DNA testing if they were guilty, but since the 1st DNA evidence came back, I became more persistent and met equally persistent feminist (i.e. feministing, Rachael’s Tavern, Alas a blog, Tennessee Guerrilla Women, Justice4Sisters, Hazel8500 etc...) who adamantly insist these boys are guilty for no other reason than because a "woman" (i.e. the stripper) claims it so.

I've noticed since then that most of feminist blogs have fallen silent as new evidence suggests that the stripper's claim to be false.

However, just when you think this case hit rock bottom, there’s about 50 feet of crap, then you find a sub-basement where in the corner Mike Nifong is hunched over clutching this dead case like “Gulum” (movie: Lord of the Rings) clutches the “ring of power”.

A great place to view that unbiased facts is:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/ourcall/index.cgi?501
http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/2006/06/duke-lacrosse-newsweek-abandons.html
http://commonsensewonder.com/?p=738

“If Mike Nifong doesn't get disbarred after this, then there really is a corrupt system in Durham that protects rich white guys. In Nifong's case - stupid rich white guys with transparent political agendas.”

Betty Friedan

Imagine yourself 18 years old, first time away from home, playing on the Duke lacrosse team. A stripper/hooker, who is on probation for grand larceny and attempted murder of a police officer, creates a “fantastic lie” to avoid being arrested and violating her parole. The District DA Mike Nifong sees this as an election opportunity, so he grants over 70 interviews (more than 50 hours of airtime) where he proclaims in the national media that “These boys as hooligans”, “That he has no doubt they raped her” , “That the DNA will prove guilty from the innocent”, “the boys are stone walling”, “That the stripper/hooker had medical evidence consistent with rape,” That the a rape drug was used”, “That the stripper was clawing at fighting and was severely beaten, punched, and kicked by the three boys.”

Thus: daily protests were held against you as every racist and sexist political wishing to take advantage of the media circus descended onto Duke to attack you. Your picture, name, and home address posted on wanted posters all over their school and community. You’re reputation destroyed as the DA, political groups, and 88 professors from your own school humiliate and insist that you raped the stripper/hooker and should just admit it.

To take apart Nifongs lies:


These boys as hooligans,
These boys aren’t hooligans, the cooperated and trusted the DA to conduct a professional investigation. They didn’t have to consent to the DNA testing, but they did so because they knew that no rape took place and DNA testing would be the fastest way to prove it, but they didn’t count on unscrupulous behavior from a DA wanting to use the false accusations against them as a political springboard.

That he has no doubt they raped her,
An investigator should not assume guilt or innocence at the beginning or during an investigation. He should have waited for all the evidence, and for the investigation to be concluded. We live in a society unforgiving of sex offenders, and women who make false claims are often protected by feminist “victims advocate” groups, so before destroying a young boy’s reputation, the officials involved should make sure the claim is credible.

It is impossible that a crime scene with three drunk men in a small enclosed room with a fighting and clawing woman being orally, virginally, and anally penetrated not leave any DNA evidence of urine, blood, vaginal fluid, sweat, fecal matter, scat smears, saliva, tears, or semen... especially if condoms were used. How would they take off the condoms during all this chaos without spilling, smearing, or touching the content inside or outside of the condom?

That the DNA will prove guilty from the innocent,
Although there is no doubt that if the DNA results came back positive, the DA would be singing a different tune praisng DNA, since the DNA came back negative, the DA immediately went to “spin” this information and tried to “muddy” its significance. He downplayed the significance of no DNA link to the lacrosse boys. He stated 70% of rape convictions is done without DNA testing, but what he failed to mention that the possibility of no DNA in a gang rape is highly unlikely, and that in the past decades 30% to 35% of innocent men convicted of rape have been exonerated once DNA testing was conducted and found that they were the wrong men identified.

The boys are stone walling
These boys didn’t stonewall, these boys cooperated from the beginning. The boys who lived in the house allowed the house to be searched, went willingly to the police department to be questions for over 6 hours in separate rooms, and their stories matched each others and the evidence found. Evans identified all the players at the party, all boys submitted to DNA testing and photos which we now know were not used to find the truth, but used against them. All six line ups only used Lacrosse players to guarantee only lacrosse players would be chosen, thus to avoid “accidentally” finding out that the stripper was lying.

That the stripper/hooker had medical evidence consistent with rape
When investigators questioned the stripper after DNA tests on the semen found inside her vagina and rectum didn’t match any of the Duke players, the stripper admitted to having had sex with at least three men around the time of the alleged rape. The stripper named her boyfriend and two men who drove her to Duke. She also confessed to using a vibrating sex toy vaginally during a performance, prior to the Duke party, for a man and woman.

The rape exam revealed that the stripper had vaginal swelling and a scrape on her knee and scratches on her ankle, but no signs of a violent or assault of any kind.

The boys who submitted to having their bodies photographed had no signs of being scratched. The fake fingernails had no DNA from the boys found under the nails, but DNA from several other people were found.

That the a rape drug was used
No toxicity test was done, the DA created the rumor of a date rape drug being used to further slander these boys.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame