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June 16, 2006



Glad you woke up and joined us, Dear Leader. ::grin::

Florence Schmieg

I await the outcry from the media and the left about this "Coulter-like" use of a poor, dead woman. I await. I await. Nothing yet??

Other Tom

Two nights ago Larry sent me an e-mail, saying he has a source in DoJ who says that Rove has been indicted, the indictment is under seal, and he has agreed to "give up" Cheney. He didn't say one way or another whether he stood by that source. But here's my all-time favorite from Larry:

"Larry Johnson

"Sun May-14-06 02:17 AM

"It is not just Jason Leopold. Joe Wilson heard the same from other sources. And, more importantly, Jason is reporting based on multiple, more than two, sources. His editors realized what a big story this is and did the appropriate checking before posting.

"They are called Truth Out for a reason. Getting the truth out."

Barry Dauphin

Two nights ago Larry sent me an e-mail, saying he has a source in DoJ who says that Rove has been indicted, the indictment is under seal, and he has agreed to "give up" Cheney.

Good gracious (as Rumsfeld might say). This guy was in the CIA? Central Intelligence?i> Agency. With spies like this, who needs enemies?



1.) You're assuming Larry was the source for Leopold.

2.) You're assuming Rove's indictment is about Leopold.

3.)You're assuming Rove's indictment is ALL about Leopold.

Leopold, Leopold. Is there any other flotsam you people can cling to while you wait for the Coast Guard to save you from
Davy Jone's locker? Now the Coulter moral equivilism begins. The difference between
Larry's insult and Coulter's is the target.

I know 9/11 widows, and Rove is no 9/11 widow.




I knew Lloyd Bentsen and you sir are no Lloyd Bentsen.


Tom Maguire


(1) You were assuming you were banned, and saying so at another site. Bad form. I'll check by there later to see whether you have corrected your, what is the mot juste, lies. I have no doubt you value your reputation for, hmm, whatever it is you have a reputation for.

(2) I am assuming people can read when I write stuff like "we repeat a question for Mr. Johnson"; Good job - you have proved me wrong. First time for everything.

(3) Let's not assume I care enough to get to three.



I tried to keep your head above water, but when you trash the host with untruths even my wit and charm can't help you.

Try me ear muffs. Everyone says they are HOT.


(And they are.)


Try me ear muffs.

It's wear your earmuffs like a pirate day!



LOL. I just caught that. Pretend it was intentional, mate. ::grin:: Arrgggg....



In the ever blurry world of Karl Rove, it appears that his mother's suicide in Nevada has not been confirmed by Nevada officials.

The fact appears in the book 'Bush's Brain', but at least one reporter who wrotein a story on Rove's time in Nevada as a youth:

There is a substantial amount of misinformation on Karl Rove’s stay in Nevada, some of it a product of his critics extrapolating from the known information to make him look as bad as possible. His mother’s reputed suicide, which has little relevance to present-day events, is frequently mentioned on anti-Rove Web pages, including one Democratic National Committee page.

Some bloggers have said she killed herself in Reno, many attributing the information to Rove’s biographers James Moore and Wayne Slater. However, while in their book, Bush’s Brain, the authors note that Reba killed herself, they say nothing about it happening in Nevada.

There is no record of her dying in Nevada.

“If she killed herself, she did it somewhere else,” said one official. Her name disappears from local directories after 1980.

The plot has cornstarch added to it.

Hunter S. Thompson wrote: 'When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro'. That explains Hamsher, Kos, Larry Johnson, Greenwald and most of the remaining Leftosphere.

Near as I can figure, the bloggers in the Rightosphere have jobs.

and, for the benefit of Larry, HST shot himself in the head, possibly because of Bush.


though, technically, Jeff doesn't have a job, other than as whipping boy(1) for the Leftosphere.

Ironically, Elmers hired him to consult their marketing campaign for next year - based on his blog writing.

(1) the term whipping boy is not, despite what you might think, racist - it's classist. If you thought it was racist, you now know better.


Someone, I think ts, has screen shots capturing LJ's pathetic effort to change his post as the tale of it swept thru the IT.Just in case.


There are idiots on both sides of the spectrum. Larry's comments are deplorable (as are the comments of Ann Coulter).


---Two nights ago Larry sent me an e-mail, saying he has a source in DoJ who says that Rove has been indicted,---

Fascinating, so Larry has a Fitzgerald mole? Leaky Fitz operation?

Larry is's like he doesn't ever think things through and um he is a the media's favorite guy to quote.


I think that email should be forwarded to Fitzgerald and McNulty.


Pete: I think it's interesting that there was no comment on Coulter's flaming comments last week, yet LJ gets a tongue lashing. I can't decide if the Plame connection is the strongest reason here or if it's just another example of peoples' tendency for indifference toward events that challenge their perspective.



When you figure it out, let us know. I'll give you a hint about my motives though. I can't stand Larry Johnson. ::grin:: Plain and simple.

JM Hanes


"Larry is's like he doesn't ever think things through and um he is a the media's favorite guy to quote."

That's what's so crazy-making about the whole otherwise forgettable Larry phenom. The only story worth telling here is how a total nutjob sans identifiable credentials morphed into the media's go-to guy on intelligence. Nobody seems to know what he actually did in his short stint at the CIA; all we really know, per Larry himself, is that MOM apparently thought he sucked at analysis.

Other Tom

Here is what Johnson said: "A source I have in the DOJ says there is a sealed indictment against Rove but that Rove has agreed to cooperate. Specifically, giving up Cheney. We'll see." I doubt that Fitzgerald or McNulty would be particularly interested--Johnson doesn't suggest that his source is in any way involved in the investigation, and indeed doesn't even suggest that the source is a lawyer. His "source," assuming he has one, could be a secretary, a messenger or a copy machine operator.

JM Hanes


Since the folks around here have spent the past couple of years looking at Plamegate under a microscope, I'd go with option #1. Hope that clears things up for you.



As Tom said last week, Coulter got a bipartisan thumping elsewhere. Since she was getting criticized elsewhere, and since she really isn't in our bailiwick, we don't really talk about her a lot.


I am confused, what did Coulter say that wasn't completely true??


"This guy was in the CIA? Central Intelligence?i> Agency. With spies like this, who needs enemies?"

Larry Johnson wasn't a spy he was an analyst,he wasn't issued with a gun,he was given a pencil.
As an analyst,IIRC,he would not have trained at the where did he meet Valerie Plame and marvel her prowess with an AK47?

Rick Ballard

"or a copy machine operator."

Quite possibly it's the copy machine itself. Or one similiar in nature to copy machines that are used at DoJ. Or Kinko's.

Sources must be protected at all costs so we'll never know.



I've never read a Coulter book. Nor do I read her articles. In other words, she isn't in my world. On the other hand, I placed myself into Scary Larry's world on purpose. With a particular mission in mind.

JM Hanes

Well, apparently Luskin has a source over at DOJ too, and his source says they don't anticipate seeking charges against Karl Rove.


Mr Ballard,

"Sources must be protected at all costs so we'll never know."

If that is spelled "sauces",all becomes clear,the ranting,temper tantrums,obscene insults,general derangement and an inability to keep a job for any length of time.
CIA,DOS,Blogger,whither next?

John Loki

Do people think about things in a logical manner?

What would be the crime that Cheney supposedly committed? Wearing pleats?


John Loki,

This from one of Larry's regulars...

You are playing in the big league here. This is not myspace. dot whatever...

...logical is not in their vocabulary.

Patrick R. Sullivan

'...what did Coulter say that wasn't completely true...'

Nothing. That's what really gets to the left.


Coming back to the Larry Johnson question about why he did not defend Leopold at the Kos convention:

Larry Johnson does not consider Jason Leopold to be worth defending anymore. Sure, Jason frequently rode shotgun with Larry as they rode the Plame gravy train to riches and fame. But after it became clear that Jason was damaged goods, Larry dropped him like yesterday's news, while simultaneously hoping no one will notice just how close they were.

I don't see eye-to-eye with emptywheel, but I admire her analysis. I would really like to hear her thoughts on Johnson's bellowing silence.

Other Tom

"Well, apparently Luskin has a source over at DOJ too..." Good point. And Luskin has named his source. Wonder when Larry (and Leopold, who promised to do so) will name theirs?


to Eric and other denial experts who want to inject Ann Coulter into a discussion of the Plame affair and leaks by DOJ, CIA, NSA:

headline: Ann Coulter is not quoted as an expert by the MSM. She is not interviewed as a "source" on what is happening with Rove. Coulter is a performance artist and is invited to be on mainly right-of-center talk shows to entertain and enlighten.

This fundamental difference will no doubt be totally ignored in the future on this site as on others by Lefties who are blinded by BDS and CDS.

Carol Herman

Oh, I see. Larry's comments can be compared to Ann's. But it's not the first thing I thought, when I read Larry's very stupid comment.

First off, he brings sympathy to Rove. Whose not responsible for his mom's death. And, parents, when they die (even in old, old age), causes grief in children's hearts. If the parents were loved.

Then I thought, hmm. I like Ann Coulter. I read her stuff for the laughs. And, her smarts gives me joy to behold.

But what if someone asked Larry "how can he be sure his dad was in bed with his mom the night he was conceived?" It's practically biblical. All children are supposed to learn, from the Good Book, that their moms are real. But their dads could'a been just passersby in the night.

Anyway, poor taste is poor taste. And, Larry Johnson, if anyone is keeping score, is showing the same signs a faltering boxer in the ring shows, when he's gushing blood down his face, and staggering away from his oponent.

The MSM will never recover.

Off topic, but there's a good post up at the Jerusalem Post; where an army officer is interviewed, and asked; among other questions, about the lies the media ran with when it came to that terrible Gaza explosion where a family (except for one child), all died. In bits and pieces.

The response was that the media has stopped running the story. So though it took days for the IDF to carefully set out the facts, all you know is that the story has gone to its grave in silence.

A new way to judge the news cycles I suppose? Sans all apologies.

Wait till PC bites the dust.

Gary Maxwell


For him to wear your ear muffs, he would have to momentarily pull his fingers from both ears and stop the chanting " I cant hear you lalala." Very scary for him as there would be a window where truth might creep into his NON Euclidian logic based universe. As scary as a Friday the 13th movie to him. He aint going to do it, the pathetic little liar. Trying to build up his street cred with the paranoid delusional crowd by claiming to be banned. How stoopid is it to show up here repeatedly not 12 hours later. Shortest banning on the planet. Or as a now claim an intentional blad faced lie to build him up as some folk hero to the moonbat universe. Pathetic beyond contenpt.


Ann Coulter has been receiving far more time on TV than Larry will ever. I have heard many on the right praise her, and her book seems to be selling well. She'll make a ton of money with her idiotic remarks. Her idiotic remarks will make her a lot more money than Larry's idiotic comments will.

They both deserve to be ignored and shunned.

Gary Maxwell

Just for the record, Ann Coulter is no fave of mine. I would guess if we polled everyone here, that no more than a handful would say they like everything that Ann has to say. But Ann can sell books. Larry cant. But somehow Larry gets on news show as an "expert" ALL THER TIME. I see Ann brought on as a conservative commentator, usually so that conservatives can be tarred with the same brush if she says something outrageous. Same thing used to happen all the time with Patrick Buchanan. He ruined their gig by his independent run for President and proved he had no one supporting him and his asinine views.

But Larry is never labeled a far left commentator who knows nothing about nothing. And its never expalined about his paranoid and delusional views, not to mention the crowd he hangs with. A little proper framing is too much to ask / expect?


Great points JohnH. Ann Coulter is an opinion writer. She is not the MSM's "go to" expert on the CIA like Larry.

Also of note. Ann Coulter has stated that a number of 911 widows have written in support, because they are disgusted by the Jersey Girls. The same could be said of those who had to go to Crawford to protest the ghoulish use of their loved one's names by Cindy Sheehan. In other words, the Jersey Girls and SHeehan have exploited their loved one's deaths to enter a political argument--it is their only qualification to do so.

If I read the quote correctly, Coulter did not say that the Jersey girls' spouses were ready to divorce them--rather, she asked, in a very blunt,tactless way--how do we know what their relationships were like with those family members who have chosen to represent in death? Would the loved one approve of his or her death being used in that way? Since they have chosen to enter the public arena in the name of their loved ones, it is a question that the Jersey Girls have opened themselves up to--and can justifiably be asked.

For example, I have a sister who I love dearly, but who is 180 degrees opposite from me in her politics. If I had died in 911--and she used my death to attack an administration I support IN MY NAME--that would be immoral. I could only hope that someone like Coulter would take her to task on it--because I wouldn't be there to respond.

I think Sheehan is a perfect example of this. By all accounts, her son volunteered for a very dangerous mission, and was proud of his service. Also, the rest of Sheehan's family has completely turned their backs on her current activity--with some going so far as to denounce her.

What Larry did is on an entirely different level. Rove has never used his mother in politics. There is absolutely no proof that he caused her death. It is sick to imply that he did. Not only is it an attack on Rove, but on a poor woman whose life ended in a very sad way, and who is not here to defend herself, or her son.

And I don't think editing out the "Small wonder" bit is going to get Larry's butt out of the sling. I doubt Luskin would be interested in sueing such a pathetic lout as Larry--but if the Wilsons start getting nasty--and Lusking can show that Larry was their agent...well.


Make that--who they have chosen to represent...

Charlie (Colorado)

Just to add myself to the record, the only thing I like about Ann Coulter is her legs ... and they've been getting a little too bony and scrawny.

Gary Maxwell

OT Gateway pundit has a post up that implies that Mad Murtha has a real challenge on his hands. Vets are steaming mad about his Haditha comments and are organizing for his challenger. If you are so inclined, the contacts for Diane Ivey, Republican House candidate are listed and grassroots contribtions are welcome. Might be fun to show the nutroots crowd how to do a "throw the bum out" campaign.


Well said, verner. We never seem to run short on these kinds of moral-equivalence arguments.


I think I know how to make Fitzgerald comment on the matter. Carry out a widespread agenda of implying that Fitzgerald's office is leaking like the Titanic. I think that would get Fitzgerald up there to denounce whatever Truthout and others have been saying is a bunch of bull.


Johnson and others like him have found a lucrative political and ideological niche, both personally and financially. To paraphrase Mencken, no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence (or taste) of the current extreme left wing of the Democrat Party.

Better to be a giant among dwarves than a dwarf among giants.



I agree. That's probablly why Johnson tossed Jason under the tracks of the Plame game gravy train.


Frankly, until I learnotherwise, I think the TruthOut business was a false flag operation where a dupe, Jason Leopold, was being used by the VIPers and Wilson to continue to attack the Administration.And, I repeat, given his history he was a perfect dupe..when the story fell apart, no one would expect he hadn't just made it up.


oops=hoist on a double negative--should read
***when the story fell apart, everyone would expect he had just made it up.*********


Clarice, as I have said other places, TruthOut cannot expose their sources for the fact that some of them are from VIPS and that will reveal that much of their reporting from the past half a year is 100% BS peddled on behalf of VIPS.

Truthout became a clearinghouse to push propaganda when the truth and the facts weren't being written the way VIPS wanted them to be. They wanted 22 indictments, they wanted Libby AND Rove, they wanted Cheney. They only got Libby, and had to write "news" stories in Truthout in order to get Rove and Cheney.

The VIPS crew is now spinning this in saying that Rove got a deal with Fitzgerald to rat out Cheney! Obviously that's what happened, now we await the imminent indictment of Cheney!


Sara (The Squiggler)

I think it's interesting that there was no comment on Coulter's flaming comments last week, yet LJ gets a tongue lashing.

I am furious about Larry Johnson's comments about Karl Rove's mother's suicide. And I think everyone is missing the point. Personal attacks using someone's mother is beyond the pale. In some quarters it would be real fighting words. Instead of using Coulter to say, "well she did it against the Jersey Girls," you need to see that the LJ defenders are still on the same side of the issue. Rove doesn't use his Mother to claim some kind of victim status such as, "woe is me, my Mama's suicide traumatized me so vote this way or that way." He doesn't drag his personal tragedy out to prove what a victim he is or to shut down debate like those Coulter talks about do. This was a disgusting, contemtible and lowlife thing for Johnson to say. Go ask your own mothers how they would feel to think they raised a son who would make these types of remarks. Using Coulter's remarks, which are a totally different stripe, to justify this crap is crap! In politics, mothers and children are supposed to be off limits as points of attack. Of course, Dems have no class and so we have Kerry/Edwards attacking Dick Cheney using his daughter and now Rove using his deceased mother. GAG! GAG! GAG!


The principle difference between Larry Johnson and most others is that he is using his former position as an analcyst with the CIA to pronounce ex-cathedra on the Plame affair.
What is utterly despicable is his extension of this to all matters political and personal about which he knows nothing.
Johnson exemplifies the politics of the gutter which can only lose your nation respect in the world,again the left is sounding like a spokesman for al Qaeda or Iran.


Interesting theory, Clarice.

What do you think is preventing Truthout from burning their sources? Do they just have too much invested in their Potemkin real estate holdings to panic their market?

Florence Schmieg

Wonder if Fitzgerald watches c-Span and saw the panel of so-called Plameologists over the weekend? What kind of effect could that have on his decision to end the Rove circus and make that call to Luskin? Probably not so of course since Fitz is going on the case data, but it would be quite delicious if the panel had an influence and helped clear Rove at last. What might they have let slip that set off a lightbulb in Fitz's head about the whole mess? Just fantasizing here.


I'm not justifying Larry's crap. But Coulter's comments are equally crap and no different a stripe.


Frankly, until I learnotherwise, I think the TruthOut business was a false flag operation where a dupe, Jason Leopold, was being used by the VIPers and Wilson to continue to attack the Administration.

Probably correct.

I think they figured a Rove indictment was imminent and they decided to push it and used Leopold. Leopold bit even though he knew it was poorly sourced because he wanted to be 'first' and he also was sure Rove was going to get it.

Wasn't that big a leap really. A lot of people (*ahem wink wink*) thought Rove was about to get it.


Sara (The Squiggler)

Lesley, they don't give a rat's a$$ about the Plame case per se ... they see it as a big traffic booster. I think the headline was "Plame as Like Porn."

Do people go to the HuffPo because Geoffrey Stone is there? No, they draw big traffic because John Cusack and Alec Baldwin and Harry Shearer are there. But Arianna uses that to provide a platform for important thinkers like Geoffrey Stone who in turn have the opportunity to have greater influence and a bigger audience than they otherwise would.

We do something a bit similar. Atrios says Plame is like porn and it is. We get our big traffic from it, that’s what people love to read about. We use that big traffic to do our series on racism and war profiteering and labor that otherwise probably wouldn’t get much traffic at all. I don’t care if those posts get 10 comments, we’ll keep doing them and they can (and have) begun to impact the consciousness of the blogosphere. I think that’s the responsible thing to do.

Plame is Like Porn


Larry is using his former jobs as credentials to comment on the Plame/Wilson affair,if the man is now spewing bile of an ignorant and frankly,insane nature,it rather negates his position.
I know it makes you feel better to counter with Coulter,but she is not validating her position with former government employment,that is the crucial difference.


Yes, Lesley. How can they out their own financial backers?



Exactly. To reveal their sources for feeding them false information is, necessarily, an act of impeachment. Since I suspect their sources are Larry/Wilson, and since thier credibility is very important to the "truth" they are trying to get "out", they will impeach themsevles -- completely.


Ann Coulter is a flame thrower. Take her, ignore her, hate her if you will but she sells books. Larry Johnson is nothing but a tasteless fool, and TM I disagree with you, his statement was mean and nasty, not dumb. He is a dispicable human being.


I don't think the point Coulter was trying to make was crap. Victimology as a tactic in politics needs to be debated. But I wish that she had done it with different language. But that's not her MO.

As for Larry--you can't exactly say the same. Bringing up Rove's mother was utterly pointless--unless he wanted to viciously inflict some sort of pain. Instead, he just made himself look like a braying ass.

Rick Ballard


That's reasonable speculation but does it outweigh what Walton's decision concerning allowing Cooper's drafts in as impeachment material does to Fitz's case? I would think that Fitz is looking at his hole card - and perhaps, finally, diagramming his case (as Clarice has suggested he do for a long time).

Getting Rove off the table is going to close off a great deal of the noise about this case. I'm pretty sure that Fitz will be quite happy to see the public profile on the case drop substantially. The counts in his indictment will be dropping too, and the less published about that (from Fitz's perspective) the better..

I'm not justifying Larry's crap. But Coulter's comments are equally crap and no different a stripe.
I think that Coulter is a different stripe -- she is more analogous to Al Franken. Both are entertainers whose schtick is insult comedy. Scary Larry would need to be a lot wittier before he would be in their league.

My objection is more to the "legitimate" news outlets who lend this guy legitimacy by treating him as some sort of sober analyst. Something that they don't do for Ann or Al.

cathy :-)


Sure Coulter is not equal to Johnson. There are differences in who they are, what their background is etc. The words that they have used recently are equally pathetic.

I am no defender of Rove, but some things simply cross the line and should not be said about him. There is a line that should not be crossed. Larry crossed the line. Coulter crossed the line.

Neither of them deserve our attention, but unfortunately controversy sells.


So much fun.... see that not many around here like Coulter very much. But she did not say something like "The Jersey Girls husbands probably jumped out windows because of their wives." Very different. Crude, vile at times - yes. But way different in nature.

I think the funniest post I read over at LJ's was some guy challenging LJ to a fight - with his 10-year-old daughter. Said that she could whip LJ's butt. LOL. CIA...the Farm...ANALyst...ROFLMAO.

Truthout is now "backing away" from the Leopold story. And even though it was promised, they will not "out" their sources. But it really does not matter - they ended up with one and only one "reliable, credible" source and from the sound of it, that turns out to be Wilson. LOL.


You know the funny thing about it is--Scary wanted to really nail it to Rove, but instead, he has made Rove an object of sympathy among some of his own Wilson loving crowd who are embarrassed by his comments.

brenda taylor

well at least ann coulter is honest and larry johnson is nothing but a big liar.



good point.

do I hear a southern accent in your tone?


No Pete,
However tasteless Coulter was attacking what she sees as political opponents,what kind of political opponent is the deceased mother of Karl Rove?
In the first instance the Jersey Girls are those they lost in 9/11,they feel that they have a legitimate right to politicise this issue.
Karl Rove's mother is not even remotely a political issue and Louche Larry brough her death into the arena simply as a personal insult.Coulter may have insulted those Jersey Girls,but they are politically involved,poor Mrs Rove is simply a sad addendum to Karl Roves political life.


Redstate has now blogged on Scary Larry's remarks calling it the "The Cruelest Statement I've Seen In 20 Years"

I wish Drudge would pick it up.

brenda taylor

yes specter you do.



And here I was hoping your favorite post was me using my best Doc Holliday impression challenging him to a spelling contest. ::grin::


---I wish Drudge would pick it up.--- Drudge doesn't like blogs and very rarely links...if it is picked up on a MS he will link. MS don't have the balls to pick it up, do they?

Specter was just the thought of a 10yo girl beating up Larry that struck me as funny. I guess he didn't accept the challenge.

I know he couldn't win a spelling contest against you. But he hasn't kicked you off again yet....

Hey TIC - thought you were banned...LOL...more crow for TIC sue....


A different Larry over there is special. I won't paste his post here. It is too vulgar.


Typical of the's in the rules. If you can't debate intelligently cast aspersions and swear your head off. The more you can put the "F" word in the better (didn't someone mention that over here in the last day? today? I'm so confused.....).


The Wall Street Journal needs to pick it up. I bet they will. This ties in very neatly with their reporting on the Plame investigation.

Not to mention, this needs broader coverage. It is a perfect example of how out of it the Wilson side has become.

They can't claim Larry Johnson hasn't been a major player either. He has made numerous media appearances, has signed his name on every letter going down the pike, and has been a star speaker at ant-war protests, including Win Without War. He's no loose cannon, he is a card carrying member of the vanguard.




---Fitz is going on the case data, but it would be quite delicious if the panel had an influence and helped clear Rove at last. What might they have let slip that set off a lightbulb in Fitz's head about the whole mess? Just fantasizing here.---

Wilson signing autographs, flapping away with smarmy speculation...

Can't you just visual Fitz standing at the side of his desk, coat off holding glasses....Rove sitting off to side next to Luskin...Rove leans in...

"Seeeeee? This is the crap we weve been trying to tell you...."


oh...insert tv with C-span on in background

Sara (The Squiggler)
Michael Barone writes about how current events are just not easy for Democrats to process, especially because they keep trying to fit them into the mold of Vietnam and Watergate.
Historians may regard it as a curious thing that the left and the press have been so determined to fit current events into templates based on events that occurred 30 to 40 years ago. The people who effectively framed the issues raised by Vietnam and Watergate did something like the opposite; they insisted that Vietnam was not a reprise of World War II or Korea and that Watergate was something different from the operations J. Edgar Hoover conducted for Franklin Roosevelt or John Kennedy. Journalists in the 1940s, '50s and early '60s tended to believe they had a duty to buttress Americans' faith in their leaders and their government. Journalists since Vietnam and Watergate have tended to believe that they have a duty to undermine such faith, especially when the wrong party is in office.

That belief has its perils for journalism, as the Fitzgerald investigation has shown. The peril that the press may find itself in the hot seat, but even more the peril that it will get the story wrong. The visible slavering over the prospect of a Rove indictment is just another item in the list of reasons why the credibility of the "mainstream media" has been plunging. There's also a peril for the political left. Vietnam and Watergate were arguably triumphs for honest reporting. But they were also defeats for America--and for millions of freedom-loving people in the world. They ushered in an era when the political opposition and much of the press have sought not just to defeat administrations but to delegitimize them. The pursuit of Karl Rove by the left and the press has been just the latest episode in the attempted criminalization of political differences. Is there any hope that it might turn out to be the last?

My response to Barone would be absolutely no hope whatsoever. As Larry Johnson showed in his recent remarks about Karl Rove, those on the Left are losing it. The more President Bush's poll numbers rise and the more progress that is made in Iraq, the worse it is going to get. Don't say I didn't warn you. Actually Paul already has. Things are going to get even nastier and that is not going to help Democrats at the polls in November. By the way, if Republicans get into the gutter with them, it won't help them any either.


Of course Larry doesn't have the balls to tell his readers why he editted his post...

---That evil Larry Johnson "attacked" poor, plump, bald, bespectacled Karl Rove who's mother committed suicide---

Apparently you are unclear of the meaning "attack" but HighBrow Larry didn't attack Rove...HighBrow Larry invoked the death of a parent to sit in lieu of a vacant argument...

he said:

--Karl is a shameless bastard. Small wonder his mother killed herself. Once she discovered what a despicable soul she had spawned she apparently saw no other way out. ---

BEFORE he edited. Why did he edit it if it was a "Fair game Attack"?



Posted by: topsecretk9 | Friday, 16 June 2006 at 15:22


Clarice, Chants, Sara - thanks for the response.

Sara (The Squiggler)

TS -- even his response is a lie. I use Typepad everyday for The Squiggler and all you have to do is save your work in Draft version. It won't publish until you set a date AND time certain. This statement: "UNFORTUNATELY, THE TYPEPAD SOFTWARE DIDN'T GIVE ME A GOOD OPTION TO SAVE THE INITIAL PART OF MY POST." is a flat out lie.



How P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C

I'll tell you what I think happened. He got an e-mail from a lawyer (Wolf?) who told him that his original language might be actionable.

Too Damned Bad. Say hello screenshot! You're busted baby.

By the way, REDSTATE's commentary is the best. A must read.

PS If Luskin found out that Joe and Larry were behind Leopold's false claims, could Rove sue them?

Sara (The Squiggler)

In addition to the "Draft" version choice, you can also choose to set a future date. I often write posts that I don't want to appear for a day or two and I just set the publish date for the date and time I want the post to go up.



Seems simple enough, Louche Larry cannot use a laptop.

Crazy Larry, the mad dog CIA killer against poor orphaned Kuddly Karl?

Another Bob

verner | June 16, 2006 at 01:30 PM:

Highly doubtful Rove could sue anybody here. At least not successfully. Maybe one of the attorneys here will chime in.

Plus, think about how their defense would work - WH muzzling dissent, etc. etc. etc.

Not worth it. Let 'em self-destruct.


Try me ear muffs. Everyone says they are HOT.

Would that be spicy, or temperature hot?

All I know is that intelligence is an aphrodesiac. ::Maniacal grin::



Out of all the comments over there, he chose your's to respond to?



I'll loan you me ear muffs matey, but I don't loan my ::grin:: to just anybody. Arrrrggg!!!


Oh, I don't think Rove would stoop to sue either. But if the Wilsons threaten again, it might be a good way to demolish their claims. Also, the basis to threaten a counter suit. In any case, it would not make the Wilsons look good in front of a jury--or to the reading public if Val ever gets her fantasy book deal.

I was just asking.



Did you apologize yet?



I was writing something about that earlier today. Wish I had kept it. I will try to reproduce it here:

Many people profit from commenting and reporting. CNN, NYT, WashPo, Time, NEWSWEEK, Fox, and many others. News interest people. Opinion on the news interest people. Packaging it for profit is great. There is no shame in it.

Blogs like FDL, The Next Hurrah, JOM and all the others that focus on the Plame affair are really no different. It is a facinating subject with high reader loyalty. It creates traffic and keeps people coming back for more. It's a good niche.

But there are two perspectives in the Plame affair, both of which can't both be true at the same time. One operates on the theory that the Bush Administration exposed a valuable CIA covert agent to punish the agent's husband, a courageous critic of the Administration, thereby violating the IIPA and causing untold damage to national security. Call these folks the punishment crowd.

The other operates on the theory that the Plame affair is a phenomena created by an unwitting and less than skeptical press's reaction to and reporting of how Plame's name appeared in print, which, they beleive, is really much ado about nothing. Call these folks the skeptics.

The punishment crowd got off to a fast start. The press loved their theory. It was easy to understand. It had villains and heroes. It was also something they had little trouble beleiving, given the majority of the press's political inclinations.

The skeptics were very slow in starting. It only emerged (indeed, could only emerge) after the press issued several reports and commentary on the punishment theory. Then the skeptics started asking questions. Just how covert was Plame? How can the press condemn a leak when leaks are it's life and blood? Is Wilson really a truth-teller? Was there even a crime? Why doesn't the press just tell us who leaked to them and be done with it? Was there even a leak?

The skeptics got very litle play in the press. It had villians, but not the right ones. It had few, if any, heroes. And the idea that the press was being a bit gullible was simply not an angle the press found interesting.

These two theories have been running side by side now for about three years now, the punishment theory almost always being the more accepted one. But in July 2004, the bipartisan SSCI issued its report on pre-war intelligence. It thumped media darling Joe Wilson pretty hard. The media began to have doubts about cheering for an investigation that will ultimately require them to reveal their sources. Low and behold, the skeptics' question as to whether the exposure of Plame even constituted a crime began to get some play.

I think that the SSCI report, the lack of any charge for an underlying crime, and the lack of a Rove indictment, have been devastating to the punishment people's theory. In fact, this may be the beginning of the end for them. Sure, they can speculate how Rove turned state's evidence to garner a bit more from thier theory. But it is appearing more and more likely that Fitzmas is not coming for them. Thier theory has lost.

For the skeptics, it's over as well. They probably will be vindicated. But unlike the punishment people, they get to savor the denumout.


'I'll check by there later to see whether you have corrected your, what is the mot juste, lies."

TopSec, Sue et al have, ostensibly been banned from Larry's blog, but I see they are back so,
were they lying? It could be that your bank of adjectives which accompany "lie" is broader than most folks, but my definition of 'banned'
includes the Plausible Denialism of a site host who diddles with Typepad, and incurs
unintended consequences. All I know is that
the numerous times I have been 'timed' out were, coincidentally timed with posts in which I established some 'communique' with your beloved locals. It could be a paranoid delusion on my part, or it could be Nixonian
dirty tricks. I am willing to say I jumped to a conclusion I cannot document, but a mistake is hardly a lie, just a misunderstanding. Nevertheless, I don't expect any gracious acceptance of such a foreign concept here.

brenda taylor



DUer's on Larry

ooj (1000+ posts) Fri Jun-16-06 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. I have NO PROBLEM with Larry. He SPEAKS for me.

Edited on Fri Jun-16-06 03:21 PM by fooj
I'm personally sick and tired of taking the "high road"...I mean think about it. Are we going to continue to take all of their insidious BS and NOT fight back. I've got news for Karl. I'M NOT WEAK AND I'M NOT AFRAID. I'm sick to death of evil, treasonous rat bastards DESTROYING our country and I, for one, am prepared to do whatever it takes to save our democracy.

NEWSFLASH...No matter what the left does, we will NEVER be as vile, treasonous and corrupt as these war criminals. Ever.

MadJohnShaft (161 posts) Fri Jun-16-06 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. If he was my boy, I'd have 'Ended Him' long ago

Virginia Dare (1000+ posts) Fri Jun-16-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. I can't seem to work up...

even a tiny bit of outrage over this. In fact, it gives me a certain measure of satisfaction.

Honestly, I would dearly like to see this man's life become a living hell for what he's done to this country.

It's probably wrong of me to feel this way, but so be it.

diamondsndust (799 posts) Fri Jun-16-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. I say ALL is fair in love and war.... and we ARE at war with repugs

... at war to regain our Country... fuck KKKarl Rove... and his dead mother. I'm sick and tired of all the hand wringing spineless jellocrats that keep rolling over and taking the bullshit these pukes dish out. Take off the kid gloves and lets get down and dirty. This is full scale Revolution... the only thing that is going to save us.

WAHHHHHH..... WAHHHHHHH.... boo fucking hoo... KKKarl got called a name.... WAHHHH..

mitchum (1000+ posts) Fri Jun-16-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. The fact that he is the "son" of a cuckold, his mother's suicide...

and his sireing of a disabled child are all factors in making him the wonderful person that he is.
However, I still have no pity for the miserable motherfucker

stepnw1f (1000+ posts) Fri Jun-16-06 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
28. Karl Rove Deserves a Bit of His Own Medicine

That's what I think. I believe Mr. Johnson earned the right to say as much if not more and worse. Words are far less damaging than the the actions of this treasonous nazi wimp.

The goodey-twoshoes can sue me too.

BTW - Larry Johnson does not represent the Democratic Party. Just want to clear up that Straw-man argument used today by a few to pressure Duers to disown him as one of our own.

----Pretty and sensitive and lovely, isn't it?


I don't think Top was ever banned. I was. Cecil was. Maybe a couple of others. If you are banned, Leo, you get a message saying you don't have posting privileges. Did you get one from here? Your problem Leo is you don't take advice very well. Someone tried to pull you back from the edge of the cliff, you just kept walking. ::grin::

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