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June 08, 2006

Comments

richard mcenroe

Sad — Funny?

clarice

Pete, I am very certain that the WH officials have better things to do in their 14 hour a day jobs that archiving and retrieving their emails..these searches are all done by staff assigned to do this and trained to do it.But I'm happy to see that you keep your eyes on the pissants in the tale.

MayBee

Pete- Do you think the WH officials keep all of their thousands of emails in their 'sent items' folder? I think they probably delete them, so someone else has to search the archives for them if they are needed later.

Sara (The Squiggler)

Pete, most government offices I've worked in at the Federal level have computers tied into a central processor. They are work stations, not stand alone PCs. When you save a document or send an email, they are stored at the mainframe and backed up from there, not stored on your own computer. Even laptops have desktop hookups that link them in. At least that has been my experience and I'm pretty sure the White House works that way since any document, no matter how trivial would be considered WH/government property if it was produced there. How do you think those Congressional committees can subpoena all the correspondence, schedules, etc, going back through every draft copy for their investigational hearings?

Sara (The Squiggler)

The WH has its own data storage and retrieval department responsible for this sort of thing. Most of these WH big wigs probably know how to turn on their computer and hunt and peck through a simple menu, but anything more complicated,they'd call someone, like their Secretary and then she would call data processing or whatever.

Dwilkers

Ashcroft couldn't get a break in a union shop at 10am.

I've seen lefties slapping on the tinfoil over the fact that he recused himself, now they're whupping out the Reynolds Wrap over when he did it.

verner

Just found this in the comments section at MACRANGER. A little report from a dinner with Joe Wilson in Philly. Check it out. Interresting comments about Novak.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/PCIntern/1

And if they scrub it, I've got the text!

Wilson is such an ass.

verner

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/PCIntern/1

Try this link, the other didn't seem to go through.

Lurker

"Pete- Do you think the WH officials keep all of their thousands of emails in their 'sent items' folder? I think they probably delete them, so someone else has to search the archives for them if they are needed later."

Somebody with system administrator privileges and computer knowledge would be the one to access the archives and search the specific emails or dump all emails from the archives. Do the archive tapes have expiration dates, get pushed to the next hierarchical level (e.g., LSM at IBM, etc.) and/or get overlaid?

In my government job as a subcontractor on the current contract (this is not the case on the previous, similar contract), we are given a limited amount of space to store our emails, then they are deleted, not automatically archived via MS Outlook so we do not have that PST file to access our own old emails. They are archived on the servers, which we do not have access to. Only our help desk does and we have to ask them to get those old emails.

Lurker

And most people would not know how to retrieve anything from their PST files, if they knew how to configure a PST file. I would be willing to bet that Rove would not even know these local archive files exist, even if he gets that "automatic archive" popup window.

In a 14-hour work day, Rove wouldn't even be interested in these details. He'll use a computer whiz at WH to take care of for him.

Lurker

"In my government job as a subcontractor on the current contract (this is not the case on the previous, similar contract), we are given a limited amount of space to store our emails, then they are deleted, not automatically archived via MS Outlook so we do not have that PST file to access our own old emails. They are archived on the servers, which we do not have access to. Only our help desk does and we have to ask them to get those old emails."

We are not allowed to use the locally automatic archive option, btw. Our emails in the inbox, sent, trash logs are stored on the mail servers, not locally.

Lurker

"He seemed to imply, although I can�t say for sure that he stated, that there were going to be more indictments coming down the pike."

More indictments, huh huh....

Right...

Almost confirms that he is a source for Jason Leopold.

Lurker

Speaking about Mac Ranger, he has a new post about the PlameGame. He seems to think that the PlameGame may be petering out with nothing new.

PlameGame Petering Out?

"Most of this is a recap of what I've been saying all along. There IS no case here against Rove or anyone else as Valerie Plame was NOT covert, thus NO leak occured. Fitzgerald is floundering and searching for gold in the bottom of a toilet bowl.

I agree, as per my sources, Rove is the most relaxed and happy "just about to be indicted" person I have ever seen.

As I been saying all day - NOT a good day for BDS."

Huh huh huh...Plame is NOT covert.

The Team Libby is mounting a STRONG case as well.

Pete

Ok so Rove may have better things to do in his 14 hour day than search his email.
But, the failure of Gonzales to send a notification right away means that the there is a larger timeframe where someone can tamper and hack the system. It also means that there is a larger timeframe to get rid of documents.

There was no reason for him to even ask to delay sending the memo. In today's environment it would have been pretty easy for him to send the memo right away, and for those who were away to act on the memo when they got in. There always will be a time lag between when he sent the memo and when people received it.

Lurker

Rove can still search his emails, providing that those emails remain in his inbox and PST file but once they are archived outside of his realm of access, he cannot search those archived emails. It appears that those emails that Fitz was interested in were archived outside his realm of access. He would not have been able to get to those archived emails within that 24-hour timeframe.

As Clarice pointed out, NONE of those emails were tampered with. ALL were recovered in spite of an error Fitz discovered. Fitz did not see any wrongdoings on Rove's part.

Like I said again, there's no stopping Gonzales from picking up a phone or emailing a draft memo but he would want to send the WH an official memo. An official memo is probably best to be sent via snail mail.

Of course, there is a time delay via the network, packet unbuffering and re-buffering, and cacheing between the source and destination.

This has already bordered into the nitpicking of the details. Seems that you're the only one that thinks there remains a problem with Rove's emails and the timing of Gonzales' official memo.

Pete

Lurker - "He would not have been able to get to those archived emails within that 24-hour timeframe."

The timeframe was more than 24 hours since the media had already reported the investigation. Gonzales just gave some more extra time for anyone to destroy/tamper.

"none of the emails were tampered with".

Then why did a simple search like Niger not turn up the email earlier?

"ALL were recovered in spite of an error Fitz discovered."

Aha - there was an error.

"Fitz did not see any wrongdoings on Rove's part."

He could not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. But the circumstances of this email being not found and then later found when convenient for Rove are very suspicious.

"Like I said again, there's no stopping Gonzales from picking up a phone or emailing a draft memo but he would want to send the WH an official memo. An official memo is probably best to be sent via snail mail."

There is nothing preventing him from sending one in the afternoon.

By the way Gonzales did pick up the phone and talk to one person in the White House (Card).


lurker

""none of the emails were tampered with".

Then why did a simple search like Niger not turn up the email earlier?"

A simple search like "Niger" won't show up if the specific emails were already archived to the mail server and to the tapes by an individual typical user.

As for Gonzales picking up the phone and contacting Card, how quikcly will Card dessiminate the information / instructions if Card has to go through the proper channels or if he was contacted in the middle of a meeting?

How quickly is the information dessiminated here? If the instructions were emailed late in the afternoon, then "all" except those on vacation would not have received til the next day.

""ALL were recovered in spite of an error Fitz discovered."

Aha - there was an error."

Clarice said in an earlier post that Fitz identified an error in the archival process. Once that was rectified, the system administrators were able to recover ALL emails. None were missing. None were tampered with. There was NOT an error in a specific error. There was NOT an error in Rove's testimony regarding these emails as per media reports.

lurker

""Fitz did not see any wrongdoings on Rove's part."

He could not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. But the circumstances of this email being not found and then later found when convenient for Rove are very suspicious."

Of course, it could have appeared suspicious, which was why Rove came back in for another GJ interrogation. Then it was cleared up. There was NO evidence of tampering with the emails.

lurker

"There is nothing preventing him from sending one in the afternoon."

True but how long does it take to dessiminate the information and instructions to the WH staff, employees, programmers, and system administrators, etc. from a previous afternoon to the next day? It makes absolutely no difference WHEN Gonzales sent a draft memo, email, official memo versus the possibility of an email being tampered with. Once an email is archived to tape, there is no way an individual regular user can tamper, lose, or delete an email entirely from the "system". A copy in his or her own individual inbox can be tampered with, lost, or deleted but once a copy is made to the archive, only the system administrator has access to the archives. One has to have the knowledge to know where the mail server is, its IP address, directory structure, tools, AND password, (either root or administrator).

Would Rove have such knowledge AND password? No.

maryrose

pete:
You know that expression "there is no there there"? It applies "big time" here.

Cromagnon

I have no idea if Turd Rove will be indicted and no idea if Scum Libby will be convicted, but it sure is fun watching Fitz make 'em squirm like little girls in the meantime... And watching apologist Maguire respond to every delevopment with 'its great news for Team Libby! Yeah!' or 'nothing to see here, move along now!... And all the commentors going unhinged over the latest Fitz 'outrage'... Priceless

Les Nessman

Pete:
"Did anyone here notice that Ashcroft's spokesman is now Rove's spokesman."

"But, the failure of Gonzales to send a notification right away means that the there is a larger timeframe where someone can tamper and hack the system. It also means that there is a larger timeframe to get rid of documents."

More conspiracy theories. Why haven't we seen any of these conspiracies proven true yet?

"If such answers could be unambiguously proved then this investigation would already be over. But the investigation is not over yet."

Ah, that's why. Well, keep hope alive. In another 3 or 8 years, perhaps this investigation will be over. Perhaps not.

lurker

"I have no idea if Turd Rove will be indicted and no idea if Scum Libby will be convicted, but it sure is fun watching Fitz make 'em squirm like little girls in the meantime... And watching apologist Maguire respond to every delevopment with 'its great news for Team Libby! Yeah!' or 'nothing to see here, move along now!... And all the commentors going unhinged over the latest Fitz 'outrage'... Priceless"

Let Fitz make 'em squirm. It is already backfiring in Fitz's face.

"Ah, that's why. Well, keep hope alive. In another 3 or 8 years, perhaps this investigation will be over. Perhaps not."

As long as budget's approved for Fitz's job as a SP. Who knows but Fitz could indict someone else other than Rove...such as...Joe Wilson. Ha!

Gary Maxwell

I said it awhile back but it bears "repeating". Wouldn't it be more in line with the Truth in Advertising laws if Pete renamed himself "Repeat"? It seems to me he never plows new ground.

Patton

Pete, I probably don't need to pile on but you really don't know what you are talking about.

The fact is the White House was informed that night by Gonzalez. He talked to the White House lawyers and gave them the verbal
order. The only issue was did they need it in writing that evening (It was after 8PM, not around 5PM).

The White House lawyers said they didn't need it in writing and the Justice Department said they didn't. So if they tried to destroy/tamper with anything that night, it still would have been obstruction.

And regardless of all of that, there are still laws regarding destruction of Federal information and everything already was required by law to be preserved.

lurker

Clarice, I just read your article about Haditha. I gathered that there were far more strange civilian witnesses to this story as depicted at hotair than you listed in your article.

There is one sentence that didn't appear to be worded correctly:

" It is unknown if he is related to Ali al-Mashhadani but their names suggest a possible relationship, and it beggars belief that as Sweetness& Light notes,"

"it beggars belief"?

I'd like to add my comment to your last paragraph, "This time, I’m betting the consequences to the press which rushed to judgment will be more disastrous than it was to Dan Rather. I surely hope so."

Add "some congressmen and senators" (e.g., Murtha) to "press", which rushed to judgment. Same does apply for Hastert that rushed to judgment when Jefferson's office was raided with appropriate paperwork.

But the public NEEDS to see through Murtha and his cronies so the more Murtha opens his mouth, the better.

maryrose

Gary:
LOL

lurker

Reading Strata-sphers' latest post on the Frigid left and Rick Moran's post on the spinning, can you believe this morning's questions to Caldwell about Zarqawi being alive when the US troops approached him, how long was he alive before he expired, etc.????

Rick Moran referred to the AP-Ipsos poll:

"Just yesterday, an AP-Ipsos poll was released showing support for the war at an all time low. One wonders what that same poll might be saying now that the news of Zarqawi’s death has spread far and wide as well as the equally good news that the Iraqis have finally gotten their act together and finished forming a government by naming the Defense, and Interior Ministers as well as the chief National Security adviser. I daresay that the American people are a little more upbeat about our prospects for total victory in Iraq now that these two very important pieces are in place."

Guess the polls do not match the typical American public opinion.

Pete

Gary - if one deleted repetitions from this web site then the comments section would be largely empty. There is no new ground in endless and baseless complaints about how poor Libby has been framed.

clarice

lurker, my editor is out of town with limited access to the internet. I had sent in a an addition with more info about the Iraqi "eye witnesses" but apparently he didn't see it when he posted it.
Beggars belief means something which is impossible to describe or believe.

lurker

Thanks, Clarice, the word, "it" before "beggars belief"? Perhaps it's correct.

Michelle Malkin took note that the Texas Democrats won a temporary order to keep DeLay's name on the ballot. Democrats Want DeLay's Name on Ballot

and more on DeLay ballot

Did you read about the dog feces left in a congresswoman's office / foyer?

Today's KOS convention schedule includes:

"9:30 AM - 10:45 AM
* CIA Leak Investigation - Ambassador Joseph Wilson, Dan Froomkin, Jane Hamsher, Larry C. Johnson, Christy Hardin Smith, Marcy Wheeler, Murray Waas

* A Sustainable Energy-Energize America - Jérôme Guillet, Mark Sumner, Adam Siegel, George Karayannis, Governor Bill Richardson

11:15 PM - 1:15 PM
Lunch Keynote - Senator Barbara Boxer"

Gonna be interesting...

Gary Maxwell

A word on the article on DeLay. The key words here are Travis County Democrat Judge. Now where have we heard Travis County recently? Oh yeah that is where Ronnie Earle is elected as DA. The liberal oasis in Texas, home of University of Texas. Sometimes known as the Peoples Republic of Austin.

I am not a lawyer but I have dealt with the issue of a TRO before. Its very temporary and will expire next week unless the Democrats can convince a Judge that they are likely to win a case on the merits and they will face irreversible damage if this drastic action is not taken and made permanent. They must effective try their whole case next week. And the law seems to be on the side of the Republicans, its says candidates are ineligible if they are not Texas residents and DeLay has established residency in DC.

topsecretk9

I have no idea if Turd Rove will be indicted

IF? What's this *IF*? Your intrepid reporter Jason scooped this a month ago?

Gary Maxwell

Turd

scoop

poo flinging Colorado Democrat

there is a theme here, what is it?

Syl

Pete

It also means that there is a larger timeframe to get rid of documents.

You're forgetting that the Rove email had occurred DAYS before. It was already backed up on tape and stored somewhere else. It was not POSSIBLE for him to delete it or shove it around.

Syl

Lurker

'It beggar's belief' is the proper phrase. Really. It's old. Been around forver. Guess you just hadn't heard it before.

Patton

Pete "poor Libby has been framed.""

Who said he was framed? I must have missed it.

sad

Clarice

Enjoyed the article at AT. Keep 'em coming!!

Richard
"sad" my initials- not a state of mind

clarice

Thanks, sad.

lurker

"Lurker

'It beggar's belief' is the proper phrase. Really. It's old. Been around forver. Guess you just hadn't heard it before."

I have heard of begger's belief but without the "it". :) Thanks!

I thought it was a good article as well.

Patton, I was wondering the same.

Gary, shame about the Travis County. No wonder the dems won the TRO. Shall we dare bet who will win CD 22 in November? I'm told that Nick Lampson is very, very personable and difficult to campaign against.

Gary Maxwell

No way Lampson will win. The district was drawn for DeLay. Its a Republican district. Lampson does have a small slice of the district that he formerly represented but it aint enough to get him elected. He gets 40 to 44% which is about all a left of center Democrat gets in Texas except in Travis Co and in the ghetto.

lurker

I'm glad to hear of the odds, Gary. As of last week, we have 29 candidates running in DeLay's position. Since Hollywood, New York, and Soros are campaigning and funding the dems (they want this district that bad), a very strong candidate out of these 29 should be picked. I listened to a few. There is one that worked with DeLay...scratch him. I like Shelly Sebulska-Gibbs and Tim Turner the best so far.

Gary Maxwell

The successor will be picked by the Texas Republican Party. No election for a replacement candidate. The Dems threw money at Busby. they threw money at Hackett. And they threw it into a sewer hole. They can do the same if they like in the Houston suburbs but it will be matched by the GOP who have more money to begin with.

lurker

Yuppers, Gary! There's aplenty of GOP money here in Houston! And I voted for DeLay in the primary (as a retiliation against Earle) and would vote for him again. Now that he's resigned, I will vote GOP. Did you notice that DeLay's name was written in as a mayor or something in Alexandra, VA? People like him and people hate him for the same reasons that people like or hate David Barton.

Patton

Love the story on Malkin about the Democrat official leaving dog poop in an envelope at a Republican candidates office.

Best part is the IDIOT left enough of her address showing on the envelope to track her down.

topsecretk9

Kos Plame line-up streaming live here

http://www.cspan.org/watch/cspan2_wm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS2

lurker

Love the way the hotair correspondent at YKOS reported the new logo.

Egads, when will Arlen Specter learn the laws!?!?!?! He's proposing another bill, which is to pardon Bush for the so-called illegal wiretappings. Geesch! Hope his bills will never reach the floor.

A new low -- the Senate seeks to "pardon" the President for past lawbreaking

(not that kind of a low when they expect Arlen to come up with a bill that makes it illegal.)

topsecretk9

They are pissed he has a defense fund...whateve. Even though...it his constitioutional right.

Pay no attention to the Clinton defense fund...

Joe still balbbing on about school yard bullies...they have abused Plame more than Clinton did Lewinsky


Wilson saying he learned from Time magazine that his wife was the best AK 47 shot...

topsecretk9

Larry says Cheney is in the crosshairs of the investigation...

JM Hanes

Pete

Sounds like you don't have any real experience using a networked office computer. It's an entirely different universe from the one on your home computer. Rather than doing a keyword search on your emails it would be more like trying to hack into your ISP. Even if you were trying to trash an email at home, you'd have to have the time & the know how to zero out your disk to permanently rid yourself of anything incriminating -- and then figure out how to cover up the fact that you'd done that. All of which would make it impossible to get anything you deleted back, of course.

In reality, however, individual users are LOCKED OUT of making alterations to storage and almost everything else on a networked system, because they'd be screwing up the works 24/7. That kind of access is limited an administrator with IT skills. Complex networks require full time professionals in that position.

Your casual assumption that someone could "hack the system" overnight (without leaving tracks, no less!) is equally absurd. Then there's the reverse engineering required to bring the dead letters back to life. I'm guessing one too many sci-fi flicks. Apparently, it's never occurred to you that the White House network is probably as well secured as any on the planet.

It's far more plausible that things happened as described, and that if we are short on details, it's because Fitz thought there was nothing more to pursue.

I see your imagination fails you, when it comes to the Gonzales delay. I see no reason to assume that an emailed advisroy would be legally sufficient to establish promulgation of the order in question. Seems far more likely that it would need to be issued on paper with receipt confirmed in order to have any legal significance. Apparently the prosecutor had no problem with the delay (when folks would be in their offices not dispersed to their homes, for starters), so I don't know why you're so convinced that there's malfeasance of some sort involved -- especially when you don't seem particularly clear on the precise timing, or nature, of the event yourself.

topsecretk9

Someone asking about Leopold...

Waas...poo poo'ing ...making jokes about Leopold being Ronald McDonald (that Kos Posting)

Waas saying laugh, laugh...Marcy? saying to be skepicat about sources...pissed about the Imaman Armitage is about to be indicted (I didn't think that he said he was about to be indicted..but whateve)

Of course...it is Rove and Libby's team spinning hard...Leopold was a good lesson for all of us


Questioner aske Byron York (in the audience) a question...Byron doesn't answer...Wilson actualy told questioner he'd have to ask Byron personally since Byron was not on the panel

lurker

"Apparently, it's never occurred to you that the White House network is probably as well secured as any on the planet."

Heh, at least AIS level 3, if anything's higher than that.

steve

I still think this:

Plame, who had a covert agency job working on issues of weapons proliferation,

Is a key line in Waas's piece. I'd bet that it's not Plame, but Brewster-Jennings that the CIA is pissed about being 'exposed'...

We've all been working on the assumption that it's PLAME that was exposed. And as you guys have pointed out very effectively here, she doesn't appear to meet the criteria for IIPA (Overseas assignmnet, 5years, etc etc)

I said it a couple weeks ago here, and it got lost in the shuffle. But what if it's Brew-Jen that was "classified". Or to put it better, the fact that B-J was a CIA front company...

Then, Plame works for B-J isn't classified, it's part of her 'no official cover'. Listed in Who's Who, etc..
Is it possible that it's the linking of B-J to the CIA that spawned the CIA complaint?

If that fact is "classified" (and I would assume it would be, why would the CIA publicize 'front' companies?) that would explain why a couple of judges have examined the CIA complaint and yet still allowed this case to go forward, despite Plame's apparent lack of standing re IIPA...

clarice

That may be so nut I recall a couple of damned good stories (was it in the Chicago Tribune) showing how not secret the BJ cover was.

Rocco

I believe Vanity Fair describes Wilson's first wife...

"In 1974 he married his college sweetheart, Susan Otchis, and in 1976 went to work for the State Department. His postings included Niger, Togo-where his wife became pregnant with the first set of Wilson twins, Joseph and Sabrina, now 24-South Africa, and Burundi. It was in Burundi that Susan "decided she'd had about enough of me" and left him, he says. He remains on good terms with the family."

OT: La Lettre de l'Ocean Indien, in an article "Bussiness Introduced Well" Describes a visit Wison took to Ethiopia with
Mohammed H Alamoudi, Elias Aburdene (from Rock Creek) and F.C. Schaffer and Associates. (a sugar company from Louisiana.)

I'm wondering if this sugar company is linked to Jefferson somehow?

Rocco

Steve

If you're right why would Valerie, an alredy outed agent by Alrich Ames, list her employment as Brewster Jennings on a $1,000 donation to Gore?

steve

nut=but?

And I agree that the secret may not have been very well kept- (What goverment secret is?)
But I'm just trying to come up with a scenario that fits all the facts- and I think there IS a difference between a poorly kept secret and a well publicized fact...

That might even explain why Wilson (or should I call him Munchausen just for y'all?) hasn't been prosecuted for sayinghis wife works for the CIA...That's just part of the poorly kept secret. It's the linkage of Plame with BJ with the CIA that was the secret. So let's say Wilson tells Cliff May (?)(and 4 others) his wife works at the CIA. Unless they know that she works at BJ, and publicize that connection, it's just part of the poorly kept secret.

if it IS B-J that's the secret, that would explain why Munchausen hasn't been prosecuted. It would explain why a couple of federal judges have allowed this case to go forward. (And maybe explain why Porter Goss couldn't expose the referral letter as the fraud that you guys think it is.
It would explain why Libby, (&rove) aren't facing IIPA charges- because 'she' wasn't covert, and IIPA requires thet she be so, AND for them to know she was covert, right?

clarice

***That may be so but **and damn good stories**

danking70

Glad Byron York caught the Wilson panel. Looking forward to his write-up.

topsecretk9

Rooco...you left this a while back...

Hi all...I hope I didn't post this in the wrong spot, I just didn't know where to put it.

According to an Indian Ocean Newsletter dated 10/233/99, a delegation of American businessmen traveled to Ethiopia to participate in a meeting. The article mentions Mohamed Hussein Al Amoudi, Midroc, Westar, Rock Creek Corportaion, Elias Aburdene and Joe Wilson. It also mentions F.C. Schaffer and Associates, a sugar company.

Now I'm no chemist but I have read that sulfuric acid is used to mill yellowcake. It's also used to recover sugar from the waste left over after sugar cane processing, the end result being ethanol.

The SSCI states on page 40, "However, the purported 4,000-ton annual production listed is fully 1,000 tons more than the mining companies claim to have produced in 2001."

Page 56, "One of the two mines cited by the source as the location of the uranium oxide is flooded."

Since yellowcake is sold in metric tons, and the UN Food For Oil Program documents tons of sugar being traded...am I reaching here? here?

Posted by: Rocco | April 22, 2006 at 09:20 AM

Steve

Rocco-
I would assume that that's part of her supposed 'no official cover'.

The question then becomes who all 'knew' about her via Ames exposure..
In other words- do we all have a list of who else was exposed by Ames?

Without that, you could find out (via Who's who or google) that Plame worked for B-J. But how much of 'common knowledge' was it that either Plame worked at the CIA or that Brew-Jen actually WAS CIA?

But (to me) it's the connection of those facts that may be the 'classified'/'covert' part of this whole equation.

Again, what if the important part of 'covert agency job' (to quote Waas)was that her job was at B-J? Not that she was covert...

cathyf

I find it much more plausible that Brewster Jennings was covert in the sense of "hidden from the enemy" in the sense of "the enemy" being the taxpayer and the elected officials who are supposed to supervise the CIA. That's where they laundered salary and expense money out to people hidden from the oversight of the bosses.

Of course I can't explain how the heck they managed to sucker in Tatel and Walton is a mystery, so maybe I'm just wrong. I mean these guys aren't stupid or naive -- they know all about bureaucrats and their slush funds, right? They wouldn't get suckered in, would they?

cathy :-)

topsecretk9

Well thanks Rocco...


Nedelcovy, Mima S. Afrka Global/Partner...Africa Global is Carter boy, David Miller (I think) but MIMA NEDELCOVYCH is

"(Mima Nedelcovych, a former U.S. executive director of the African Development Bank, is a frequent visitor to Africa in his role as vice president for international marketing with F.C. Schaffer and Associates, Incorporated, a sugar engineering and agro-industrial group.)"

Rocco

TS...I tend to reach a lot, trying to connect the dots and I think it's a stretch to think Schaffer was or is somehow milling yellowcake with sulfuric acid but I do think Alamoudi is in the ethanol business.

That flooded mine bothers me a lot too. If we can pump the water out of New Orleans how hard would it be to flood a mine when inspectors show up and pump it out to mine illegally?

Rocco

Here's a link to the Indian Ocean Newsletter

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.africaintelligence.fr/LOI/archives/default_archives.asp%3Fnum%3D876%26year%3D&prev=/search%3Fq%3Deatic,1999%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Rocco

Here's a translation of the whole article from Winds of Change

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/007718.php

Rocco

Of course this wouldn't raise any inquiry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_D._Auchincloss,_Jr.

Syl

Lurker

Well I know I'm beating a dead horse, but:

I have heard of begger's belief but without the "it". :) Thanks!

That's why I put 'It' in the phrase. 'It beggars belief'. And 'beggars' not 'beggar's' is the way I've always heard and seen it.

Could be different parts of the country used it in different ways.

Syl

er beggars beggers.

Patton

Someone should ask the question:

Would the media have 'OUTED' Plame if she was in charge of setting up secret prisons in Europe??

Would the media have "OUTED" Plame if she was interrogating Al Queda terrorists that claimed she abused them??

Would they be ohh so outraged if she was actually 'involved' in actually defeating the actual enemy.

The left only seems to like a CIA operative that sits and desk and sends men out to have sweet tea meetings..they don't seem thrilled with CIA agents that actually
kill people and break things.

Patton

Remember Harlow told Novak that there maybe difficulties if he uses her NAME in the article. But that she/herslef probably wouldn't be doing field work. So maybe there was more then one Valerie Plame?

There was the actually Valerie Plame sleeping with Joe at home with the twins. And there was one or more 'other' Valerie Plame's actually out doing field work using the name/position as cover. It would probably be really dumb to operate this way, but this is the same gang that sent Joe Wilson to Niger and used a dummy company as a front.

I would have thought the CIA only used real companies as front for agents...you would think it would be too easy to check a fake company...unless her only 'field' work was on the phone/e-mail/snail mail.

Patton

Shudder at the thought but maybe Joe went to Niger in drag..as Val herself.

Tom Maguire

Allahpundit reports from the Yearly Kos, including the Plame Panel:

Zzz…I took a bullet for you guys on this one. If self-righteousness were an alternative source of energy, gas would be twelve cents per gallon.

Cecil Turner

Man, did he ever. Massive kudos, and somebody pass that guy some hip-waders.

lurker

Thanks, Tom McGuire! :)

Tom Maguire

From Jim E:

In fact, I can write with confidence that TM reads DailyKos more frequently than I do.

Wow, you must be down around zero - which lefty sites are on the Jim E daily (or weekly) tour?

topsecretk9

This is precious (link from Allah to KOSland...

Erin in Flagstaff's diary :: ::
The highlight so far was not having Wesley Clark standing near our table tonight talking to John and some other folks, it was as Mike Caccioppoli (who is running for the AZ CD1 seat) and I turn a corner in our hunt for snack food and I'm passing someone who reminds me of Joseph Wilson. I catch his eye and with a dumbfounded look I point at him and say, "You're...aren't you?"

Yeah, I'm quite the witty and eloquent gal.

He smiles, comes over, and shakes Mike's and my hand. Oh. My. God. We actually have a conversation with Joseph Wilson. With Joseph Wilson! When he discovers we're from Arizona and that Mike is running for office in northern Arizona he tells us about his aunt and uncle who live in Pinetop. This is Bush country and his relations are Bush supporters. Shoot, they're such supporters that they are upset at their nephew for attacking Bush.

As I'm chatting with Mr. Valerie Plame, guess who he calls over and introduces us to? Larry Johnson! The four of us are talking about Zarqawi and Iraq. La di da. Fiddle dee dee. Doesn't everyone chat with Larry Johnson and Joseph Wilson about Iraq? Oh, was I giddy when we went our separate ways. I wanted to jump up and down and scream in excitement.

This is just too cool, and it's only my first day.

Must. Be. Mature....Oh, hell with it. Eeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

Also...fascinating all these lefty bloggers think speaking truth to powere is to obsess over Byron York...you get the feeling Byron is more knowledgeable than they OR they just have nothing really to say...

Tom Maguire

On the Gonzalez 12 hour cover-up:

As noted above, there are actually real laws governing the archival procedures for White House email; Karl Rove can't simply decide to clean up his PC one evening and actually delete the only copy of his emails.

More broadly, (and it is not fair to expect Pete to bear the entire burden of making sense of this lefty conspiracy theory, but here we are), why would the document shredders wait until that fateful Monday night in late September to do their dirty work?

Per this Conyers letter, the CIA referred the case to DoJ in July; by Sept 16, the DoJ had been told that the CIA was convinced that there was a problem; finally, on Sept 29, the DoJ moved on this (although MSNBC reported it the previous Friday, Sept 26).

So, given Rove's extensive DoJ contacts that obligated the Ashcroft recusal, why didn't the evildoers start the shredders in July, or after Sept 16, or after Sept 26? Why wait until the last twelve hours?

Oh, never mind - I am having trouble finding a cogent summary, but per this excerpt below, it is not the subpoena that "starts the clock" on document destruction - it is the dawning of the realization that documents may be relevant to an investigation, which (arguably) may have ocurred with press coverage of the initial referral in July, or by the time of the NBC leak on Sept 26, or some other time.

Here is a vaguely helpful excerpt:

Beyond civil sanctions, lawyers and clients should also take note of applicable criminal statutes. The federal crime of obstruction of justice is defined by 18 U.S.C. § 1503 to include conduct that, among other things, corruptly endeavors to obstruct or impede the due administration of justice. To sustain its burden of proof, the government must prove that there was pending judicial proceeding, that the defendant knew this proceeding was pending, and that the defendant then corruptly endeavored to influence, obstruct, or impede the due administration of justice.

In applying the obstruction of justice statute to issues of destruction of documents, federal courts generally have not required that a subpoena have issued. Rather, it is sufficient for an obstruction conviction that the defendant knew that a grand jury was investigating possible violations of federal law and intentionally caused destruction of the incriminating document. U.S. v. Fineman, 434 F. Supp 197 (E.D.Pa 1977). And in at least one case where corporate officials allegedly destroyed documents sought during discovery in a class action employment discrimination case, a federal district court denied a motion to dismiss indictments, holding that the officials could be prosecuted criminally under the obstruction of justice statute for the spoliation in the civil suit. U.S. v. Lundwall, 1 F.Supp.2d 249 (S.D.N.Y.,1998).

In addition, the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 has expanded the federal law of obstruction by adding new sections to 18 U.S.C. § 1512 and enacting a new statute, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, creating additional crimes relating to alteration, destruction, mutilation or concealment of records, documents, or objects. Section 1512(c) requires acting corruptly with intent to impair the item’s integrity or availability for use in “official proceedings,” defined by 18 U.S.C. 1515 to include proceedings before federal courts, agencies, Congress, and regulatory proceedings involving the insurance business. This statute is particularly striking in providing, in subsection (f), that an official proceeding need not be pending or about to be instituted at the time of the offense and that the document need not be admissible in evidence or free of a claim of privilege. Section 1519 relates to any matter within the jurisdiction of a federal department or agency or any case filed under title 11 (bankruptcy) and requires intent to impede, obstruct or influence the investigation or administration of such a matter or case. It also includes actions taken “in relation to or contemplation of” a matter or case.

maryrose

She doesn't sound too terribly bright to me, this Erin person.

Patton

Well, since Bush invented a typewriter and went back to the 1960s and created fake TANG documents to trap Dan Rather, I think the left can perfectly well believe that Bush also invented a new VIRTUAL SHREDDING MACHINE that seeks out all copies, archives, tapes, disks, drives, off-site back-ups as required by federal Law, etc. and wiped them clean.

Unfortunalte there must have been an accident with the virtual shredding machine or Libby was standing to close and it shredded part of his memory as well.

Or Cheney just gave a him a shotgun lobotomy to erase the appropriate data.

Since Zarqawi was the only one who had proof of this scheme, we now know why Bush had him wacked as well...or did we get him a year ago and kept him frozen? I'm losing track of which conspiracy I'm on.....

maryrose

Best comment of the day Richard Mcenroe's
"Zarquawi knew and that's why he had to be whacked" Classic!

Gary Maxwell

No no Patton you have missed the latest talking point on Zarq. See TALKLEFT if you think I am misrepresenting this even an iota. The thought process ( is that even too much dignity for what they employ?) goes like this:

Jordan had this informer for several months. Without any proof, they are sure he was tortured. The torture lead to the finding of Zarq. And then taking the words of the General who reported finding Zarq barely alive and mumbling when they arrived on the scene, they leap to we murdered the guy. Snuff him out without some much as a second thought ( quick someone call the Haditha commission or that group Rachel Corrie was a member, they will know how to get to the bottom of this outrage perpetrated by the US).

Its not a victory for the US. Repeat it over and over like those voices in your head keep doing.

Aint it a doozie? Hits all the Shehan high notes too, torture and indiscriminate murder by our troops ( who of course we support!).

maryrose

I have no objection to taking Zarq out. He who lives by the sword...

maryrose

Let me qualify that : he was fatally injured by the bombing.

lurker

I read an article yesterday implying that Zarqawi's death was planned by AQ.

Strange.

clarice

I think after watching the media perform at the DoD briefing today that we need a new disease nomenclature:Watergate Derangement Syndrome.

Symptoms of WGDS include assuming that all government reports are per se absolutely false; that enemy claims are absolutely true ; that our military, in particular, is full of homicidal liars.

maryrose

Good news for Libby!
Mary Matalin is hosting a legal fund fundraiser for Libby. tickets are $500 .
Way to help out the cause.

clarice

WASHINGTON - The federal district judge overseeing the CIA leak case against I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby will hold a pre-trial status hearing Monday. Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff, is facing five counts of obstruction of justice, false statements and perjury in the investigation of who leaked CIA employee Valerie Plame’s name to the media.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13231479/

lurker

Interesting that the title says, "Judge seeks clarity on CIA leak case"

Clarity?

What do you think about the timing of this pre-trial.

Good for Mary Matalin. Hope she pulls it through.

MayBee

TS-
Tell me more about this panel.
Now this part:
Waas saying laugh, laugh...Marcy? saying to be skepicat about sources...pissed about the Imaman Armitage is about to be indicted (I didn't think that he said he was about to be indicted..but whateve)

How can they say Leopold should have been skeptical about sources with Larry Johnson and Joe Wilson sitting right there?

Tom Maguire

Jordan had this informer for several months. Without any proof, they are sure he was tortured.

And she thinks the torture produced valuable, actionable intelligence. First time for everything.

SunnyDay

I hate to do this - I was reading Clarice's article on the AT site, and EZAV told me I had been hit with win32 exploit. They might want to check their pages for it.

I run a big site, and it ticks me off when someone makes an announcement like this. :(

Gary Maxwell

Tom

Thanks. I thought one of the left's big talking point on torture was heck it doesn't even work. I guess in this case it must have or the conspiracy theory breaks down now dont it??

clarice

Sunny, I've no idea what that means but I'm passing it on to the editor right now. Thanks,

SunnyDay

I had one of my techs on the site checking it out - he didn't get it. It must be one of the rotating ads.

It's a windows expoit. I thought I had updated windows. sigh.

lurker

Not good:

Win32 Exploit

It appears to be a trojan horse. Better get that fixed.


lurker

So far, strata-sphere has been correct, let's hope he continues to be correct about this one:

Zarqawi Dominos Starting To Fall

Then let's hope we will find OBL and Zawahiri this summer!

clarice

Re the discussion in Plame about how carefully reporters source things:
"With the Pentagon completing its probe into whether U.S. forces massacred civilians one November morning in Western Iraq, the damage to America’s image abroad could take a further hit

By MATTHEW COOPER/WASHINGTON

Posted Friday, May. 26, 2006

In the original version of this story, TIME reported that "one of the most damning pieces of evidence investigators have in their possession, John Sifton of Human Rights Watch told Time’s Tim McGirk, is a photo, taken by a Marine with his cell phone that shows Iraqis kneeling — and thus posing no threat — before they were shot." While Sifton did tell TIME that there was photographic evidence, taken by Marines, he had only heard about the specific content of the photos from reports done by NBC, and had no firsthand knowledge. TIME regrets the error. "
http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=1757


SunnyDay

lurker, yes, it is.

They sent me a "backdoor" that steals passwords, and changed my hosts file so it could call home. I got it all. I just don't know why the windows update didn't work - I know I downloaded that patch.

MayBee

That reminds me of the Katrina bodies in the refrigeration rooom stories. Reported as if they'd been seen by the sources, later to find out they didn't exist at all.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame