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June 14, 2006

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Tomf

Patton:

Where has Laurie gone anyway? Do you know?Sure do miss seeing her on Fox. :-)

Sue

She left with Geraldo to be on his nightly show.

Sue

http://www.geraldoatlarge.com/the-show.php?PHPSESSID=049c8c11e5890baca56b92b57005bd66>Dhue

Tomf

Sue:

Really? Thanks, I'll tune in. Can't listen to Geraldo much though. :-)

Tomf

Hey - thanks for the nice link! Guess I don't get out much.

Sue

EXCLUSIVE: ANN COULTER SCORES #1 BOOK WITH 48,408 SOLD, ACCORDING TO BOOKSCAN... TIM RUSSERT 'FATHERS' 33,563 COPIES... ANDERSON COOPER 29,447... DEVELOPING...

I wonder if that says anything about conservatives voting in November?

Sue

JM,

Did anyone ever answer your question about what was EPU'd? If not...http://ctbob.blogspot.com/2006/04/get-your-epu-on-4072006.html>EPU'd

Wilson's a liar

Do you think Joe is running around in a mad circle screaming "I was THIS Close!!!!!????"

"Turn those machines back on!!!!"

Specter

he was running backwards with his hands waving all over the place....lol

Rick Ballard

Sue,

Here it should probably be 'Eww..PU'.

clarice

Time to move on--the drive by media has--this time, it's Haditha (which we've discussed), Hamdaniya (which Riehl dissects today and which looks like similar crap http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/06/press_accounts_.html> Hamdaniya Media Crap and Hadji Girl in which the Marines continue their hot tango with Saudi financed propagandists CAIR.http://hotair.com/archives/the-blog/2006/06/14/cair-on-hadji-girl-its-all-about-haditha/>Marines dancing to CAIR's tune.

Is it pandering to sententious views about war or to the Saudis on whose payroll so many military officers end up on retirement?Why are the Marine officers so quick to toss their own men overboard?

sad

What happened to honor? There was a time when money could never replace God, country, and family as priorities in ones life.

Extraneus

Bush should have answered differently.

"Yes, Ann, this is Vietnam all over again. No question about it. A seditious left, aided by their willing accomplices in the press, allied with our battlefield adversaries, happy to smear our fine men and women in uniform, are in determined pursuit of our defeat, even at the expense of many thousands of innocents in the bloodbath that would follow our withdrawal and abandonment. In fact, some of them are even the same people! So yes, it's Vietnam. Only this time, we're not surrendering."

kate

I think the Marines are much more PC than the army. I'm afraid that a decision has been made to throw these Marines overboard. I was listening to a father of the Hamdaniya Marine on the radio and he said he was a big supporter of the President but at the press conference today he didn't say anything about presumption of guilt.

Plus the leaks coming out of the Pentagon are outrageous. One of three things are happening:

1) the evidence is strong and the Pentagon has decided to manage this incident by letting out the bad news slowly, so that the impact will be limited;

2) enemies of Rumsfeld in the Pentagon see this as an opportunity to get rid of him and are hyping the investigation and framing it in the worst possible way;

3) people who are leaking don't know what they are talking about.

clarice

I am getting very angry.
And when I see VIPS-connected HRW activists involved I am getting even angrier.

JM Hanes

Sue

Thanks for the EPU'd info. Oddly enough, Leo didn't stick around to answer questions. LOL!

Extraneus

Over at Drudge:

"NBC EXECUTIVES MEET OVER MORE OLBERMANN EMAILS SET FOR PUBLICATION, SAY SOURCES... DEVELOPING..."

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

Marines - officers and enlisted men - are held to a higher standard of discipline than the other services. That's part of the "tougher" image. Those higher standards are enforced through evaluations that mandate a focus on the accomplishment of mission above damn near all else.

There is a link missing in the Haditha story and it involves the green lieutenant to whom the staff sergeant was reporting. I have a sense that part of the reason that the captain and lieutenant colonel were relieved involves that second lieutenant.

The short of it is that I expect a Marine officer to ruthlessly support his men in completing the mission and ruthlessly reprimand them when they act without sufficient discipline. Pity and excuses just ain't in it for Marines.

The Pentagon staff personnel may be a completely different story - and the officers may not be Marines to begin with.

Patton

I think part of the problem here is that even in the military, people don't understand that a war is different then being a cop, or civilian life.

There was a instance a couple years ago when a soldier was accused of murdering an Iraqi. The Iraqi had been in a firefight and half his face blown of and his brain hanging out. There was no trauma center nearby, the soldiers were out on their own, the medic told the guy in Command that the Iraqi would die soon but meanwhile he will be in terrible agony.

Now if you are a cop in Los Angeles you make one decision (Call an ambulance and hope for the best of modern medicine), but if your a soldier, under fire, surrounded by fanatical terrorists with the closest trauma center 100 miles a way, you do the guy a favor and put him out of his misery.

Is it murder? He certainly killed the guy.
Was their intent to do harm to the guy? NO. The soldier should walk completely free, decisions have to be made on the battlefield and he made it.

This is why we don't need lawyers like Jeralyn Merritt second guessing the guys getting shot at. It is a war, it has its own rules.


Patton

I still say Laurie Dhue should replace Olbermann. Her reading the phone book would get better ratings then Overmann.

clarice

extraneous, I suspect those emails were internal and are coming to light to set up Plberman for a dismissal for cause within the terms of his contract. Call me a cynical bitch.

Yes, Rick, I agree. It's the Pentagon brass I'm concerned about.

clarice

From the frying pan into the flame? Drudge is reporting that the LA Times may be up for sale and Clinton's "zippy" friend Ron Burkle and some of his pals are interested in buying it. http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/la-fi-tribune14jun14,1,1651114.story?track=rss

Extraneus

Yeah, Clarice. Considering the blatant disregard for the "sunshine test" evidenced by that Rita Cosby reference to rocks and suitcases, I imagine there are other notable emails he's written as well, possibly to some of his Mensa buddies. Perhaps JOM's intrepid Truthout posters (or possibly even CheChe him/herself) have been sharing a few sentiments with old Keith in side-conversations, too, huh?

verner

You know, the sad thing with HRW is that in the past, they have done some good work. But now, it is nothing but another spawn of Soros. (Like Moveon.org, Kos, Atrios, Brock, Blumenthal, etc. etc. etc.) The documented links are there. The former director of HRW is now at Open Society!

And Just look at the first page of HRW's 2006 report, authored by the very partisan Kenneth Roth--a full frontal attack on Bush. Even though, the claims that they have gleaned through their own investigations are so lame, and so minute that they are virtually statistically insignificant considering the number of individuals involved. And they even admit, most of the allegations have been investigated by the government! Indeed, the real story is how LITTLE alledged abuse has occurred when you consider the global scope of the operation, and the vicious nature of the enemy.

When the socalists in the EU sent up the resolution to investigate the "Secret gulags" last December, they had exactly two named sources in the language of the bill--Dana Priest's WaPo trash, and a report by HRW that was based in large part on Priest's reporting. (The HRW report included only Priest and an ABC report from Brian Ross! LOL) I think that is pretty much the defination of--excuse my french--a circle jerk. And a Soros financed one at that!

We now know that Priest's claims were merde. Six months and nothing to substantiate what she claimed. Yet, just like HRW--who cares! The MEME is all that matters. The US is pro-torture and nothing but baby killers--no better than Saddam.

As Jeff shows, these people are totally blinded by their hatred of Bush, and we're all stupid. (He actually told me that I was out of my depth arguing about the Plame Game with emptywheel! Little twit!) They could care less about evidence or context. They think the ends justify the means. The only cure for the plague is to expose them for what they are--even if we have to do it over and over and over again.

PeterUK

"All you need is people like Patton, PeterUK,
Gmaxwell etc. to shut down the debate with
adhom attacks that are a function of their
frustrated personal lives or some tax they had to pay"

Oh dear, oh dear, Cement you shouldn't have done that,especially since there is no "r" in the month and the cretin culling season is not yet upon us.

PeterUK

Frankly,I am very worried semanticleo has taken the NON-INDICTMENT OF ROVE very much to heart,perhaps a suicide watch is in order?

Specter

Then again there is always the Darwin Awards....no I really didn't say that....

PeterUK

Sorry Specter,that only applies to sentient carbon based lifeforms.

Rick Ballard

Peter,

I thought a referral from a proctoneurologist was necessary before a cretinologist could be called in? Oh well, perhaps the requirement has been waived for a bit on account of Fitzgerald's announcement.

Specter

and he claimed you guys shut down conversations like banning does. Man. Cant' believe that. LOL

JM Hanes

Rick

I think you just have to be perpendicular to reality -- and I think the concept of existential banning makes Semantic's position pretty clear.

PeterUK

Rick,
Do you refer to FITZGERALDS ANNOUNCEMENT THAT HE WOULDN'T BE INDICTING KARL ROVE ?

Isn't it amazing that Rove is not to be charged with all the heinous offences invented by the left?
Personally I am delighted that Kark Rove is not to be indicted,are you pleased that Kark Rove is not going to be indicted?
Somehow I don't think Semanticleo is at all pleased that Karl Rove is not to be indicted,but nonetheless most decent upstanding people everywhere are overjoyed that justice is being done and Karl Rove will not be indicted.

Lurker

"

More tsouris for Abrams, a nasty email about Rita Cosby from Olbermann comes to light. http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/426477p-359629c.html

I predict Shuster and Olbermann might be in trouble, and Matthews will get a warning."

I hope your prediction is correct. I don't listen to them but am tired of reading, watching, and listening to the lefites. They are never consistent.

American Thinker has a good article showing how different the lefties reacted to Zarqawi and Schiavo.

Semanticleo

Jm;
Where have I demanded that others answer a question, compained mightily about the nature of the answers I received.

Right back at you. How was my demand worded?
I don't recall complaining about the answers
I received. As I recall the 'answers' were unresponsive.

richard mcenroe

"Olbermann is a robot that was planted and programmed by Rove. "

Dorf -- I doubt it... but if Keith didn't exist, Rove would have to invent him.

Lurker

How about /> weak attempt to correct his error of the previous night????

Boy, was Matthews not only wrong but didn't do enough to correct all of his errors.

PeterUK

Cement,
What do you think of the joyous news that KARL ROVE IS NOT TO BE INDICTED?

pollyusa

As Jeff shows, these people are totally blinded by their hatred of Bush, and we're all stupid. (He actually told me that I was out of my depth arguing about the Plame Game with emptywheel! Little twit!) They could care less about evidence or context. They think the ends justify the means. The only cure for the plague is to expose them for what they are--even if we have to do it over and over and over again.

What people?

Lurker

Poor Lefties, their interpretations on the Rove indictment went off the line, such as the door remains open for Fitz to indict Rove at anytime in the future.

Right, Fitz could indict Rove on something else....

::rolling eyes::

Lurker

"As Jeff shows, these people are totally blinded by their hatred of Bush, and we're all stupid. (He actually told me that I was out of my depth arguing about the Plame Game with emptywheel! Little twit!) They could care less about evidence or context. They think the ends justify the means. The only cure for the plague is to expose them for what they are--even if we have to do it over and over and over again."

What people? Start with Truthout and democratic underground.

Semanticleo

Glad Sue could help you out in my absence, JM.

Now that you know what EPU means, I guess were even.

I guess I don't have the leisure hours afforded many here who camp 24/7. Does that mean I have some kind of character flaw? I mean, I'm not a trust fund baby or a day-trader or some such truck. So occasionally
I retreat from the keyboard. Is that a bad thing?

JM Hanes

Semantic

"I don't recall complaining about the answers I received. As I recall the 'answers' were unresponsive."

Q.E.D.
L.O.L.

So, do you believe the ends never justify the means?

verner

Hey Polly,

I was kind of referring to people like you--you little stalker.

You think I don't know my e-mail address is made public? And if you'll look back, I was treated very rudely.

Give my regards to the fruitcakes at empty wheel. A real waste of time.

Begin comments from EW!: LOL

Jennifer Verner, if this is indeed you, you really ought to weigh your words more carefully when posting comments on The Next Hurrah. (FYI, your e-mail address is visible to all when you put your cursor over your UserID.) I realize you are frustrated by the responses, but "dingbat" is not becoming of you, nor your shit-eating analogy.

And for the record, we write here because we are passionate about politics, passionate about achieving a corrective to the mainstream media discourse. Unlike you, none of us get paid to write thinly-sourced partisan attacks on our political opponents.

Posted by: QuickSilver | June 14, 2006 at 16:59

Oh, well done QS.

I just assume all our trolls come straight from Tom Maguire--because they don't understand how he can engage in real dialogue with us.

It seems the right is very intent on spinning this their way (except for York who is intent on not creating more trouble for Turdblossom). You think we're hitting a little close to home?

Though I feel I ought to contact AIM to let them know their flunky doesn't know the difference between the SSCI and the Strathclyde Software Innovation Centre.

Posted by: emptywheel | June 14, 2006 at 17:25

I think she does come from JOM as well.

Posted by: pollyusa | June 14, 2006 at 19:20

LOL

Polly, that's hysterical, you've even got our trolls cataloged away.

Posted by: emptywheel | June 14, 2006 at 19:50

Semanticleo

"leo, To my knowledge this is the most open-minded blogsite with the least amount of personal attacks of any I've ever seen. Most posters stick admirably to the substance of the arguments and facts presented. And that is a rare thing, indeed."

clarice;

You may be right from a personal perspective, but it would be well to ask yourself how many commenters can you cite
as representing a divergent POV at JOM?

I think two is the correct number. Jeff and myself are the only two. If you find the tone here to be relatively open, perhaps it is because your views are similar to the gallery.

Carol Herman

A very long time ago, I was watching a Candid Camera show. Where Alan Funt (the host) set up a "man in the street" and told him he couldn't walk the block without breaking the law!

Game ON!

The man was handed a pack of cigarettes. (Yes, in those days smoking wasn't considered illegal.) And, the man was told to walk down the street; while the camera followed behind. His job was to open the pack, and light one up.

AND, THE MAN BROKE THE LAW!

How? You say. Easy. The man carefully unwrapped the cellophane. And, put it in his pocket. He carefully opened the pack. Retrieved one cigarette. And, lit it with a lighter (so he didn't have to worry about the match.)

Well? HE DIDN'T RIP THE "STAMP" THAT YOU FIND IN THE CENTER OF A PACK OF CIGARETTES! The LAW says you've got to break (rip) the seal. He didn't. Hence, he broke the law.

If Rove smoked, I'm sure the idiot-Fitzgerald would look for occasions to walk behind him, just to see him NOT TEAR the "legal" stamp that sits on the package.

Now you know.

I want to see Libby back at work! Until that day comes, our work, here, isn't finished.

Lurker

It would be wise to have several email addresses and especially the user name to include a dash to minimize the number of spams and Niger lottery emails heading your way.

That's pretty obvious. I read some of emptywheel's posts about the CIA leak indictment, Byron York convo, and anything covering Rove. As much as some of our speculations here, some are beyond reaching reality....

Semanticleo

"So, do you believe the ends never justify the means?" Ends never justify means....

Your turn............

JM;

From Maguire's post;

"Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, 26, told his attorney that several civilians were killed Nov. 19 when his squad went after insurgents who were firing at them from inside a house. The Marine said there was no vengeful massacre, but he described a house-to-house hunt that went tragically awry in the middle of a chaotic battlefield."

It's not necessarily an 'atrocity'. Maybe
it was a 'human' mistake. Mistakes tend
to occur when you are tired or stressed.Whether or not a marine might take
solace in the difference between the two
scenarios is unknown. If it were I who
was involved in Haditha, I'd prefer to think
it was stress which led to an accidental
tragedy. Wouldn't you?

Posted by: Semanticleo | June 13, 2006 at 06:11 AM

verner

Lurker, that's what Yahoo.com e-mail is for.

They never ever ever cease to amaze me. I don't know why. I read once that 25% of the American people believe that Aliens landed at Rozwell NM.

Hey Leo, what do you think of that? Not only was I insulted by Jeff and EW, I was stalked on the internet by PollyUSA--who, of course, never tells us who SHE is!

Pretty pathetic.

Patton

You are in a WAR! You are tired and stressed by definition. You don't get a good night sleep any night because of 100 different sounds in the night, you could get shot at at any time. Or you patrol all night and try to sleep during the day.

Tiredness and strssed is the state that all combatants are in, so its not an excuse for anything.

If you thought someone fired from a house and you needed to supress that fire. Sure you could have been wrong, the bullets wizzing past your head may have come from the house next door, or from further away on a hill, WHATEVER that does mean you INTENTIONALLY or MALICIOUSLY went out to kill civilians.

If Al Queda sets up an ambush, explodes an IED then starts firing from civilians houses, its not our soldiers fault that we had to respond.
Its no different then if a bank robber takes hostages and a cop accidently kills a hostage. IT IS THE BANK ROBBER WHO WILL BE CONVICTED OF MURDER, BECAUSE IT WAS HIS WRONGFUL ACTIONS THAT LED TO THE DEATH.

PeterUK

"They never ever ever cease to amaze me. I don't know why. I read once that 25% of the American people believe that Aliens landed at Rozwell NM."

When you consider your protagonists,why do you think that aliens didn't land?

verner

You know PUK, you really have a point there.

pollyusa

Stalker? I indicated that you do indeed post at JOM.

I was kind of referring to people like you

these people are totally blinded by their hatred of Bush, and we're all stupid

I can't think you could have any reason to think I hate Bush and find you and whoever you are referring to stupid.

So I'll ask again. What People?

Carol Herman

Gary Maxwell, above says that Dan Abrams is a Duke Law School graduate. Well, so was Richard Nixon.

Nixon loved poker; especially the BLUFF. But when he bet the presidency against the Congress; he was foiled by the Supreme Court. Who said his tapes had to be disclosed.

So Nixon is the only president who has resigned. Bluffing at a high stakes poker game.

Did I tell you that Steven Lubet's book, Lawyer's Poker, is absolutely EXCELLENT? A treasure trove. (Including a hand played by Daniel Webster and Henry Clay.)

I'll also guess that even if Dan Abrams is a Liberal, he isn't a loon. And, there should be an upcoming divorce, soon enough, from the moonbat wing of the donks' party. And, those with major ambitions. (Like Corzine.)

There are big hurdles for the donks. They were wrong on Bush. Wrong on Iraq. And, now they've got a host of nincomepoops who'd head for great chairs; or White House posts; IF they could pull off a coup. Doubt that they can, here.

But something of the TV monster-sized business remains. That White House Gregory character got left on the ground; as he saw seat mates taking off for Iraq. On this type of personal level, the messages get through.

I'm with Clarice. Olberman's gotta go. So, too, the "dumber than a piece of luggage full of rocks," Rita Cosby, that he identifies.

What would a clean "slate" look like? Perhaps, Mike Kinsley would know? Wasn't he fired from Slate? Nah. I don't really follow these things. But some splashes, like belly flops into the water, get people's heads to turn.

SOme November, if MSNBC goes into the "refurbishing" business. Like a home that's a money pit. We. Will. See.

Patton

Semanticleo says
""Sue;

You don't have to ban anyone from a site.

All you need is people like Patton, PeterUK,
Gmaxwell etc. to shut down the debate with
adhom attacks that are a function of their
frustrated personal lives or some tax they had to pay."""

Gee, I was banned in less than a day from TalkLeft, simply for posting facts they prefer didn't exist. The only people I have eve attack are the ones who have requested it. They post the most ignorant stuff not possessing a fact in their head. When the dope leaves their system, they leave the site anyway.

Far from shutting down debate, it actually extends the debate..what is shut down is their ability to respond with any facts or substance.

verner

Don't play Polyanna dear.

You linked my name to a google search.

Not that I care.

windansea

Insider trading conviction of Soros is upheld

linky

windansea

You may be right from a personal perspective, but it would be well to ask yourself how many commenters can you cite
as representing a divergent POV at JOM?

our freakin host and probably 50% of posters here thought Rove might be indicted

now go reasearch Firedog, emptywheel, Talkleft etc and see the ECHO CHAMBER

Lurker

Boy, add that "linky" the list of great news.

Penalty:

"In a March 2005 ruling, a French appeals court confirmed a fine of €2.2 million, or $2.8 billion, set by a lower court for the illegal purchase of 95,000 shares in Société Générale. The Cour de Cassation ruled that the fine would be adjusted to reflect Soros' profits, and it ordered the case returned to the appeals court to clarify the amount."


I see Soros planning to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights...

Strata-sphere's post address some of the "
I was kind of referring to people like you

these people are totally blinded by their hatred of Bush, and we're all stupid.

Democrats In Disarray, Republicans Losing On Immigration

clarice

leo, to say that you are a minority voice on this blog is correct.Still, that we don't fold and accept your contentions is not the same as saying you are being muzzled is it?
It's called the free marketplace of ideas, and in that plaka some goods just have no buyers.

Lurker

Did you see that Lieberman is considering independent?

I don't blame him.

verner

If Lieberman goes independant, I will send him every penny I can afford. I hope he does.

It is DISGUSTING the way the democrats have treated him. He was good enough to run with Gore, and showed a lot of class--but now, just because he stood up for this country in a time of war, no form of abuse is good enough for him. What further proof does anyone need to show that the democrats have been taken over by the nut cases.

topsecretk9

Making Mary Mapes proud...truthout is still on the story...
http://forum.truthout.org/blog

Chants

Could someone explain to me why I am reading numerous defensive posts by Leo defending himself from a slight I can't really find in this thread?

Or is this yet another lesson in "the first rule of holes"?

Lurker

:-)

Larry Elder is a prime example of a Libertarian. And I like him. Most people are NOT happy with both parties. Hastert is a good example for defending Jefferson. Specter is a good example for believing that Bush is NOT above the law; yet Congress is above the law.

One thing that some people have a hard time about Lieberman was that he had to give up alot in order to be Gore's running mate.

Syl

The end may not justify the means, but who is the arbiter of the meaning of the means?

Lurker

Marc Ash says...

Let Fitz in his entirety publicize what he said to Luskin.

"Expect a more comprehensive accounting of this matter on Monday, June 19."

PeterUK

Clarice,
There will always be takers who will exchange their cow for a bag of magic beans.

JM Hanes

Semantic

"Ends never justify means...."

I'm not sure what the ellipsis here is intended to signify, but assuming it signifies nothing, your assertion seems clear enough. Self-defense then, is not legitimate reason for killing someone attacking you with a deadly weapon nor would you have any legitimate reason to shoot someone who is in the process of killing your children. Welcome to your world!

"If it were I who was involved in Haditha, I'd prefer to think it was stress which led to an accidental tragedy. Wouldn't you?"

No, I'd prefer to think I'd done my best to do my duty, according to the rules of engagement I'd been trained to rely upon.

If that is not, in fact, the case, I'd point out that "stress," as a hypothetical byproduct of decisions about troop levels, may be neither the only possible nor even most probable cause of tragedy, whether accidental or not. I'm not surprised that you prefer to think so, though, when it fits so conveniently into the argument you've been trying to make, "regardless of what fact-finding reveals."

topsecretk9

Well sorta...

but

Truthout has never compromised the identy of a confidential source. We will protect our sources on this story, as we have on every other story we have ever published.


yeah except for that little snafu of TruthNot editor Will Pitt on Democratic Underground...

"You could have asked. I would have gladly explained the inside sourcing that I cannot reveal publicly. I would have told you. Happily. I would have explained how Joseph Wilson independently verified a half dozen other sources, none of whom are connected. We had a guy **deleted**."

Syl

Marc Ash is an idiot. The confidentiality of sources is indeed extremely important but ONLY if they don't lie to you.

All Ash is doing by not revealing his sources is encouraging other sources to LIE.

Thus Ash has lost all credibility. His readers can never trust a story again.

PeterUK

Chants,
"Could someone explain to me why I am reading numerous defensive posts by Leo defending himself from a slight I can't really find in this thread?"


"Maybe
it was a 'human' mistake. Mistakes tend
to occur when you are tired or stressed."

It must be hard for little Cleo,the tears running down her smiley T Shirt and dripping onto her scuffed Birkenstocks,"Daddy,why didn't they hang Karl Rove?"

Rick Ballard

Lieberman has nutroots opposition so he's safe from the Kiss Of Scorpio anyway. He'll win as a moderate anyway.

Klubacher in MN and Granholm in WI have both received the Kiss Of Scorpio - the nutroots support will finish them off in November. Oddly, the nutroots may hurt Santorum by opposing Casey.

Perhaps we'll have some peace later in November as the Sterile Futilists assess their losses.

Chants

Atrios once said:

“A source lies to you, and you find it out, you burn him. Period.”

clarice

I figure the rumor that Lieberman may run as an independent is a warning to Dean whose brother is leading the opposition in Conn. He's saying cut it or you may suffer. As an independent he may more often vote with the Reps. His leaving the party will hurt the party more than it will hurt him. I really don't see that happening yet though.


And, now the true Ship of Fools:
Dear EmailNation Subscriber,

We know that cruises aren't for everyone but Nation publisher emeritus Victor Navasky and The Nation want to invite you on The Nation's ninth annual seminar cruise. Setting sail from Fort Lauderdale on December 16, the Holland America's MS Zuiderdam will cruise through the Caribbean on a seven-day tour, returning to Florida on December 23. The dates have been selected to allow families and educators to make the trip.

You'll be joining a distinguished group of speakers who will participate in a series of lectures, seminars, conversations and cocktail parties over the course of the voyage. Confirmed speakers include Joe Wilson, Scott Ritter, Steve Earle, Jane Smiley, Jonathan Kozol, Molly Ivins, the Rev. Lennox Yearwood and Jim Hightower as well as Nation writers David Corn and Katha Pollitt and RadioNation host Laura Flanders. They'll join Navasky and Nation editor and publisher Katrina vanden Heuvel in what has always been both an enlightening exchange of ideas and a no-hassle, relaxing vacation.

PeterUK

Rick,
"Perhaps we'll have some peace later in November as the Sterile Futilists assess their losses."

Nope! SFs only apportion blame and hunt out the guilty,they don't have losses,only thefts.
The baying at the moon and the eldrich cackling is here to stay.

Gary Maxwell

If you are referring to Jennifer Granholm she is Governor of Michigan not Wisconsin. And most recent polls have her trailing in her reelection bid to Dick DeVos, ( think AmWay Corp).

verner

Atrios also is the one who didn't inform his readers that Soros was his financial source. I assume he still is. His blog is one of the places on my "life's too short" list so I wouldn't know.

Lurker

Hope Santorum has good luck. This summer might help him as things continue to get better.

Clarice, I'm willing to bet that PUK would put up the numbers showing low attendance of this cruise against NRO's high attendance! :-)

Lurker

Boy, Soros is into everything that's not conservative....

Another Bob

Rick Ballard | June 14, 2006 at 06:29 PM: I think you mean Feingold in WI, but your point obviously stands. Or has Granholm in MI received the same largesse from the "netroots"?

Syl | June 14, 2006 at 06:26 PM: Ash is playacting at journalism at TO. A real journalist would burn a source who lied, probably as part of the correction that would be issued. At least that would have been true in ye olde days.

Lurker

Hope Feingold is booted out the door this November.

Gary Maxwell

Oh the horror of being stuck on a ship and have no choice but to listen to the likes of :

Wilson, Ritter, Ivins, Corn, and Van den Heuvel. Jim Hightower would be refreshing in that he is at least an entertaining speaker (who I would almost never agree with his populist anti corporation views).

Do people really deliberately do this? I would not want to waste my vacation being droned at by a bunch of conservative speakers either in case you are wondering.

JM Hanes

"We know that cruises aren't for everyone but Nation publisher emeritus Victor Navasky and The Nation want to invite you on The Nation's ninth annual seminar cruise."

Field trip?

PeterUK


"We know that cruises aren't for everyone but Nation publisher emeritus Victor Navasky and The Nation want to invite you on The Nation's ninth annual seminar cruise."

Field trip?

Submarine?

Lurker

Gary, I'd rather be somewhere else....like Croatia, Slovenia, Israel, England, etc.

It's money out of our pockets into theirs.

Rick Ballard

Thanks Gary - I meant Doyle in WI, although Granholm is in trouble. Doyle is below 50% and leading by only about 4%. Mark Green has a good shot.

verner

" They'll join Navasky and Nation editor and publisher Katrina vanden Heuvel in what has always been both an enlightening exchange of ideas and a no-hassle, relaxing vacation."

I'm sooo freaking tempted! But now that PollyannaUSA has outed me, I might have to use an alias!LOL

Anybody want to join me?

How much are they charging for the slow boat to hell anyway?

PeterUK

It will be the first cruise that had the denzins of the Burmuda Triangle already on board.
Still it will do them good if they are kept chained to the oars.

Gary Maxwell

Doyle may squeak through as I think there is a third party candidate drawing 2 -3 %. Just enough. Too bad though as Green is a good man. If Doykle goes, expect photo ID law to vote to become Wisconsin law and voting in Milwaukee to drop precipitously.

clarice

Wisconsin really was stolen in 2004. Doyle has three times vetoed a voter ID law. I hope he loses. He is a crook, and this is still a clean state which deserves better.
The MI numbers are surprising.

PeterUK

"The Ship That Died of Shame".

Gary Maxwell

Dont you think sipping mint tea in Niamey would be preferablew to this cruise from Hell?

clarice

I'd rather trek thru Afghanistan alone in winter than be locked on that cruise ship from hell.

Gary Maxwell

Clarice

the UAW knows their jobs are at stake. Tom Friedman dumped all over GM today and he did the Democrats no favors by riling up the Joe sixpacks.

Lurker

"If Doykle goes, expect photo ID law to vote to become Wisconsin law"

That would be good.

Gary, didn't Texas voters just approve on photo ID law?

Why can't the WI voters submit a voter ID resolution over Doyle?

ordi

If Lieberman does go indep., who would he caucus with? Hmmmmmm

verner

Oh come on Clarice, it could be fun. I hear that one year, the little socialist grannies with comfortable shoes (most of the guest list if history repeats itself) staged a protest over the substandard non-union labor condition of the crew. What a hoot!

Joe's face is going to be covered in old lady kisses. Won't Val be jealous.

But at least he'll be able to share a drink and a sun tan with his former cast members from "Uncovered."

Rick Ballard

Gary,

I think Mehlman is going to put real money and effort into WI for Green. The Reps need the state for '08 and Doyle has to go. That drive in vote from Chicago (by welfare double dippers, no less) has to stop.

Rocco

verner

Count me in that 25% who believe aliens landed on that sheep and cattle ranch on July 8, 1947.

Because exactly nine months later, on March 31, 1948...Al Gore was born!

ordi

Science question:

Are there icebergs in the Caribbean?

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Wilson/Plame