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July 29, 2006

Comments

PeterUK

"The ridiculous and callous approach of Bushco, from the first days of their 'ascendancy' into power, was to do "everything the opposite of Clinton." Regardless of the policy."


Well,at least it has kept the stains off the carpet in the Oval Office.

Rick Ballard

K T Cat,

The press is not ignorant. It has knowingly chosen to embrace the side of the savages and barbarians as being closest to its ideology of nihilism. It is fair to call the press stupid, in the sense that its practitioners are, for the most part, possessors of mental faculties incapable of more than the most puerile form of static economic analysis (if A has more than B, then it was acquired dishonestly and B has a "right" to redress the imbalance through "all possible means") but they are not ignorant. Stupid, yes. Moral cretins, definitely. Enemies of civilization, indubitably. But not ignorant. They are willing accomplices, covered in the blood of the innocent.

clarice

Syria is in deeper trouble than that. It has lied off what it's stolen for Lebanon for decades. Now they can eat sand.


As for the press, I watched the execrable Eric Burns show last night and saw Jane Hall (journo professor at American University) and I think she could well be Rick's poster child.
Luckily, no one here listens to them much. Europe is another story.And if I were a Brit forced to pay a tv tax to keep the BBC afloat, I'd be marching on Parliament today.

clarice

*liVed********not lied

clarice

And then there are the NGO's--many of which, like HRW--are partisans fighting against the West and Israel.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292028917&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull>no good operators

Other Tom

I just heard that Tony Blair, in light of the Qana event, has called for an immediate cease-fire. My worst fears about a tipping point are being realized.

I apologize for my pessimism, but I'm unable to cure it. There is a global war in progress--if not a war on terror, certainly a global war of radical Islam vs. the West. I don't believe the West is capable of winning that war. It is a civilization that has largely lost all confidence in itself, and in many quarters seems to be infected with a depressing sort of self-loathing. Europe in the past century has undergone such a thoroughgoing spiritual collapse that it is absolutely certain to do nothing other than appease in the hopes of holding out for as long as it can.

If a cease-fire in place occurs in the next few days, the entire world will understand this to be a huge victory for Hezbollah, Syria and Iran, and an equally huge defeat for Israel and the US. (Europe, of course, will not suffer a "defeat" because Europe simply has not been, and will not be, engaged in this struggle.)

Florence Schmieg

I begin to think that there is no possible way for the free world to continue to exist very much longer. It is impossible to fight a war now, so why even start? The well-meaning who want the civilian casualties to stop, thus to stop the war, play into the terrorists' strategies. UN resolutions (never fulfilled, like bad parenting), diplomatic niceties, and that old bugaboo "stability" will end only in the defeat of Western democracy and way of life. I have no answers, just depression. The West is no longer willing to do what it needs to do to stop the terrorist threat, unlike the resolve it showed against the Nazis-a bloody war with millions killed. We are back to "peace in our time" reminiscent of Chamberlain. We are cosseted, lazy, people who so value our comfort that to maintain it we will engage in moral relativism. The enemy knows what it believes in and is willing to sacrifice everything for it. How many of you think the West would? Look how fast things changed after 9-11. That is why I feel this sense of doom.

clarice

Don't you suppose Blair's comments are mandated by internal British politics? I do. Sounds like King Canute to me. Lebanon has refused to discuss conditions for a cease fire and Hezbollah isn't coming to any table.

France won't go in nor will anyone else until the fighting is done.

clarice

This (from an email I received)is more troublesome than Blair's bleats, I think..and a test of Mubarak's hold on Egypt and the Sheikh:


From: Muslim World News

Sheikh Qaradawi: Assisting resistance in Lebanon (and Palestine) is a lawful obligatory Jihad

This morning (30/7/06), the official website of Sheikh Dr. Yusuf al-Qaradawi, published an interview the Sheikh gave to the official paper of the nationalist liberal al-Wafd party in Egypt [1] last Thursday (27/7/06). [2]

Following are the main points the Sheikh raised –

· Sheikh Qaradawi states that the Lebanese resistance is a "lawful [shari] Jihad", which, alongside its "Palestinian sister" represents the "noblest form" of resistance. Currently, says the Sheikh, when "our Nation is in a situation of lack of vividness and disgrace", the only proof the Nation is still alive is the "resistance we see in Palestine and Lebanon". There is no dignity, says the Sheikh, in any other acts, and all the Arab organizations are surrounded by submission. Sheikh Qaradawi now sees Jihad as a religious individual commandment [faradh ayn] which is obligatory to women even without the consent of their husbands, to children even without the consent of their parents and servants even without the consent of their masters".

· In the Sheikh's opinion, the Arab organizations think Israel is an unbeatable force, in a similar way to how the Mongols were thought of [in the 13th century]. He calls upon them to start acting and stop talking. The Sheikh adds that the problem with achieving Jihad is the lack of freedom inside the Nation, and "if there had been freedom in our countries, millions would have volunteered to join Jihad and help resistance in all the Arab and Muslim countries to win".

· Sheikh Qaradawi stresses the Lebanese resistance should not be perceived "Shiite" but as part of the Muslim Nation [ummah]. The ground for his statement is "[the Shiites] agree with [the Sunnis] on most of the main principles [of Islam] and [only] differentiate over part of the branches. Furthermore, says the Sheikh, the Shiites in Iraq should be condemned for their radical approach. He calls them to abandon their hostility towards their "Sunni Muslim brothers" and stand together against the daily massacres, "from which the only ones to gain are the American occupation and the Zionist entity".

· Sheikh Qaradawi praises the Lebanese resistance, which "succeeded in cleansing the Muslim land from the Israeli filth, except for the Shaba farms, that, with Allah's will be released soon". He says one of the noblest achievements of the Lebanese resistance is the capture of Israeli soldiers, after "the prisoners were only from our side, and thousands of our sons are in the occupation prisons". The Sheikh further praises the Lebanese resistance which "succeeded in bombarding with missiles the Israeli valley, made the Zionists hide in shelters, made Israel for the first time acknowledge its [civilian] casualties by Hizbullah's bombardments and caused it [financial] damages in millions.

· Sheikh Qaradawi says the US hopes to change the map to create a "new Middle East", in which Israel is the only ruling power and is able to force its wills over everyone. He proves it by saying that while all the world calls for a cease fire, Rice granted Israel a green light to "complete the destruction of all essentials of life", and [Israel] started it by destroying houses, killings of innocents and turning civilians into refugees.

General comments:

1) It seems the Sheikh's statements come to reject the fatwa issued last week by Saudi prominent clergymen which prohibited support of Hizbullah due to its Shiite background.

2) It is worth while mentioning that today al-Wafd paper reports several Egyptian politicians affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood call to abandon the Camp David peace agreements.[3] Similar calls have been repeatedly heard by MB members in Egypt over the last few months.

[1] more on the party see on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wafd_Party

[2] Source: http://www.qaradawi.net/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=4345&versionfiltered=1&template_id=116&parent_id=114

[3] see http://www.alwafd.org/front/detail.php?id=13709&PHPSESSID=01f3c38057ab0234f310bb1678477691

Other Tom

I have no doubt that what Blair is saying is driven by British politics, but that affords me no comfort at all. He is out in front of a people who do not have the stomach to support what he is trying to do, and George Bush is close to being in the same predicament. There is a mortal struggle going on, and much of the opposition party in the US is obsessed with the niceties of some abstract violation of some unknown person's privacy through the NSA surveillance program. The English-speaking press (never mind the others, who are worse) are ever-vigilant to the slightest transgression by our fighting men against some norms at which the terrorists simply laugh. I'm glad I've lived a long time, and have had a great life. I sure don't envy the young people of the civilized world today.

PeterUK

Why are these schnooks always sheiks? The man does his people no favours with this,"In the Sheikh's opinion, the Arab organizations think Israel is an unbeatable force, in a similar way to how the Mongols were thought of [in the 13th century]"
Does he really want to remind us of the strategy the Helugu Khan found necessary to subdue the Middle East?

clarice

From the NYT of all places--a peek inside Iran:

"No matter how this conflict is resolved, Iranian officials already see their strategic military strength diminished, .....

“This was God’s gift to Israel,” said Nasser Hadian, a political science professor at Tehran University and an expert in Iranian foreign policy. “Hezbollah gave them the golden opportunity to attack.” ....

“If Israel attacked us tomorrow, what are we going to do?” he said."


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/world/middleeast/30iran.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin

Remember their economy is in no great shakes either and the streets are full of unemployed young people furious at the Mullahs before this Hezbollah misadventure.

clarice

PUK, I suppose non-shnooks find greener fields in IT development, carpet sales and even falafel chain futures.

clarice

Very curious. The bldg in Qana collapsed 8 HOURS after it was hit.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283816,00.html

larwyn


Caught Red-Handed

July 30th, 2006 The Sunday Herald-Sun in Australia carries pictures that were smuggled out of Lebanon. They show, quite distinctly, that Hezbollah is taking up positions in civilian areas, are carrying arms and launching rockets from those areas and are wearing civilian clothes while doing so so as to be able to hide once they've don't what they came to do.All of these things are war crimes. Every single one..........
http://bluecrabboulevard.com/

Link to the photos:
Photos that damn Hezbollah | Herald Sun

The Belmont Club: The Pawns of War
"During the Battle of Manila, thousands of civilians sought shelter in the strongest buildings they could find. The terrible tactical logic of war meant that the same substantial buildings attracted the Japanese Army, who bayoneted civilians to take possession or simply turned them into strongpoints with the civilians inside. When the inevitable rain of 8-inch US howitzer shells came the stone walls crumbled like sand. Sixty people died in Qana. About 100,000 civilians died in the Battle of Manila, a drop in the ocean of what we remember as the Good War. One of the most interesting stories to come out the Second World War was a 2004 interview of a veteran by the VMI Adams Center, chiefly remarkable in that the interviewee had been both a B-29 crew member and a survivor of the Great Tokyo Fire Raid of March, 1945. He tells the story as someone who no longer has any secrets worth keeping."

Incredible post from Wretchard.

Not caught up with today's comments - I was up late last night watching CNN's Intl coverage of Qana. They used rather choppy clips from scene - maybe it is my old eyes - but the "victims" they photographed on stretcher were not covered in dust, nor were the ones being carried in arms of RED Cross.
The "resucuers" handing off the "injured" were also clean - dark pants and no concrete dust?
Saw no bloody wounds in the clips that were accompanied by the hysterical Ben Weedaman(sic).

Know experts are looking at all the video from Qana - so we'll see.

If any of you ever sanded the spackle in drywall/plaster repair - you know you can stay un-sprinkled.

larwyn

you CAN NOT** stay un-sprinkled.

Gary Maxwell

I knew a guy in college that no one messed with. He was not particularly big or strong, but he was known to have strong urge to get revenge. He was known but his quote " If you send your dog over to crap on my lawn, my response will be to burn your house down." That would be a good atttiude for the Israelis to take right now. Administer such a strong response that the message will be unmistakable, keep your dog off my lawn.

It wont be followed, partially becuase of stiped pants types here in Britain, urging proportionality. The hell with that. Lets get some deterence going and see if a peace breaks out.

Patton

Isreal should tell Lebanon and Hezbollah that yes we agree to have a proportionate war.

All Hezbollah, including Nasrallah, should come with their weapons to the border, away from civilians and Isreal will send the same number of fighters. Then they can do battle without worrying about civilians casualties.

I'd like to see Nasrallah in a hand to hand combat with BiBi Netanyahau.

But on a serious note, why doesn't Isreal do some serious campaigning on the cowardice of Hezbollah. Ask why Nasrallah hides behind children? Why do the Hezbollah fighters so fear showing up on the battle field to fight Isreal like Mohammed would, rather then hiding behind their wives.

Why are all the Hezbollah such a bunch of cowardly scum and girlie men like Nasrallah who sleeps with young boys and sends his own teenage boy to die rather then himself.

Patton

Isreal should also stop using smart bombs since Hezbollah doesn't have them so its not proportionate. Isreal should only carpet bomb with unguided weapons like Hezbollah.

larwyn

If only the darn Israelis would
fight fair.

You know, in your hearts, that they should close down their bomb shelters, stop their citizens from evacuating the border towns and use their sirens to tell their citizens that incomming rockets demand that they stand in the street.

Sure that the UN would endorse such a plan to get to some "proportional" warfare.

Anyone think that the Israelis are so dense that they planned another Qana - that's what their Amb to the UN said in Sec. Council meeting.

As Clarice pointed out - 8 hrs passed.

Anyone else noting lack of dust & blood in clips?

Patton

Since Hizbollah was disbanded and de-mlitarized under UN Resolution 1559, someone else must be firing at Isreal.

Soylent Red

larwyn:

Don't you think that France going to Lebanon is a good thing.

My thoughts go like this...

Getting any country involved is always useful. I, for one, am sick of having the U.S. be the point man all the time. It would be nice if France (or Russia or China or India or...) would take the lead, put the force together, deploy it, and be responsible for its efficacy. Seems like, to me anyway, that one of the hallmarks of being a "great power" is the ability to operate without U.S. handholding.

I don't believe that France has purely altruistic motives though. Aside from their historical ties with Lebanon, France sees regional stability in light of more pragmatic interests. Specifically:

1. Lebanon could act as both a release valve for Muslim over-immigration, and as a Westernization finishing school for useful and potentially easier to integrate immigrants. Sort of a halfway house between the Muslim world and France.

2. A French-led coalition success in Lebanon (by some nebulous multilateral Francophile definition of success) acts as a counterpoint to evil U.S. cowboy unilateralism. In short, Lebanon offers an opportunity for France to be a major player in an alternative to American dominance, which is one of Chirac's fondest desires.

3. Creation of a strong Lebanon as a counterbalance to hated Zionist Israel. A Lebanon which is heavily indebted (both financially and dipomatically) to France, and could be a terrific customer for French armaments and concrete.

As much as I bash the surrender monkeys, France actually has a relatively competant follow-on type of military. Ultimately, the French working to promote their own pragmatic interests in Lebanon, merges well with a more philosophical American interest for the region.

Uh...to the degree that they can actually get it done, which remains to be seen.

PeterUK

What is wrong with this picture of the rescue work at That's right the legs are showing.


With regard to France,one of the reasons they are behaving is you just might have the OFF evidence.

Extraneus

First off, all this talk of "innocent civilians" is absurd. The concept of a "civilian" in a terrorist society in which no uniformed soldiers operate is a complete misnomer. When everybody's a "civilian," the distinction isn't possible to make, so let's consider who among the population are "innocent" instead.

Their entire society is steeped in hatred, dripping with it from every pore. There's no evidence, not even a tiny shred, of any urge on the part of fictitious "moderate" Muslims to purge the so-called "extremists." In fact, they're all extremists in Hezbollah strongholds, and reduce the the word to meaninglessness. It's not extreme to preach hate there. Quite the contrary. It's normal. From the clergy who preach hate, to the elders who support jihad, to the fathers, mothers and teachers who raise the children to spout the same hate-filled visions of killing and dying for Allah from the age of three -- they're all equally guilty. And even if there might be a small number of truly innocent souls among the tens of millions of others, it's counter-productive to speak of innocent civilians among these people. They're an enemy society, and almost none of them would bat an eye at your kid's gruesome death if they could bring it upon you, since you're nothing but a kuffar.

The focus on civilian casualties is simply propaganda, and should be ignored.

Extraneus

And as a corollary to the unfortunate reality of entire terrorist societies like Gaza and South Lebanon, this can obviously happen in Iraq if we were to leave there before the place is stable. It may happen anyway, but could easily be accelerated, which would be a dangerous tragedy. You have to wonder what the leftists who hope for this are thinking.

clarice

More evidence of staging at Qana.
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/014843.php

Lesley

Just saw this, hope it means what it appears to mean, IAF bombing Bekaa Valley.

BEIRUT, July 30 (Reuters) - "The Lebanese army opened fire on Israeli helicopters trying to land near a town in the Bekaa valley, preventing them from setting down, Lebanese security sources and witnesses said.

The four helicopters appeared to be trying to land Israeli soldiers near the town of Yammouni, they said.

The helicopters flew away before Israeli warplanes launched air raids on the area, the sources said."

cnj

Breaking NEWS:
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/mideast_conflict>Israel SUSPENDS bombing for 48 hours

larwyn

24 hr "ceasefire" - Israel has reserved right to stike. It is only covering Southern Lebanon not the Eastern/Bekaa border.
Jennifer Griffrin read from the Israeli release that = not really a ceasefire - supspension of air attacks in Southern Lebanon - not tank fire.

Mark Steyn today:
Mark Steyn's Professionalization of war is ghettoization of war

......
The first President Bush assembled the biggest coalition in history for Gulf War I, and the bigger and more notionally powerful it got, the better Saddam Hussein's chances of surviving it became. Because the bigger it got, the less likely it was to be driven by a coherent set of war aims.

War is not like firefighting: It's not about going to the burning house, identifying what needs to be done, and doing it; it's not a technical solution to an obvious problem. And, if you think it is, you find yourself like George Bush Sr. in 1991, standing in front of the gates of Baghdad and going, "Er, OK. Now what?" Some people look at the burning house and see Hezbollah terrorism; others see Israeli obduracy, or a lack of American diplomacy, or Iranian machinations, or a need to get the permanent Security Council members to send peacekeepers, or "poverty" or "despair" or an almighty pile-up of abstract nouns. You can have the best fastest state-of-the-art car on the road, but, if you don't know where you're going, the fellow in the rusting '73 Oldsmobile will get there and you won't. ....
..........
We live in an age of inversely proportional deterrence: The more militarily powerful a civilized nation is, the less its enemies have to fear the full force of that power ever being unleashed. They know America and other Western powers fight under the most stringent self-imposed etiquette. Overwhelming force is one thing; overwhelming force behaving underwhelmingly as a matter of policy is quite another.
.........
.....whether the skill set provided by the typical American, British and European education these last 30 years is now one of the biggest obstacles to civilizational self-preservation. A nation that psychologically outsources war to a small career soldiery risks losing its ability even to grasp concepts like "the enemy": The professionalization of war is also the ghettoization of war. As John Podhoretz wondered in the New York Post the other day: "What if liberal democracies have now evolved to a point where they can no longer wage war effectively because they have achieved a level of humanitarian concern for others that dwarfs any really cold-eyed pursuit of their own national interests?"

RTWT

lurker

So...Fox News is now repeating a 24 or 48-hour temporary relief from air strikes? Israel agreed to something but what about Hizbollah? Have they agreed to a ceasefire against Israel?

But ground incursions continues?

So...if the building did not collapse til about 8 hours later, what if the Hezzies went in to bomb it down?

That gives the civilians time to escape but what if the Hezzies refused to let them escape?

And what if the Hezzies forced the civilians into that building? Or killed them in afvance?

Geesch, UN NEEDs to STFU and stay out!

lurker

"24 hr "ceasefire" - Israel has reserved right to stike. It is only covering Southern Lebanon not the Eastern/Bekaa border.
Jennifer Griffrin read from the Israeli release that = not really a ceasefire - supspension of air attacks in Southern Lebanon - not tank fire."

My gut feeling is that Israel was planning to do something else at this point anyway, such as the ground invasions and perhaps giving the pilots the much needed rest, etc.

So, I wouldn't call it a loss.

Ynet news:

Qana Building did not collapse.

The IDF believes that Hizbullah explosives in the building were behind the explosion that caused the collapse.

lurker

From the above link to Ynet is a video. Be sure to watch it.

Ugh!!

From Ynet:

"Lebanon's PM thanks Hizbollah for its "sacrifices"

Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora thanked Hizbollah on Sunday for its "sacrifices" In its war against Israel.

"We are in a strong position and I thank the Sayyed for his efforts," Siniora said when asked about a Saturday statement by Hizbullah chief Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah calling on the government to take advantage of Hizbollah's steadfastness against Israeli military might."

and

"Senior officer: 150 rockets launched at Israel from Qana

Chief of the IDF Operations Branch, Maj. Gen. Gadi Eisnkot, said in a press conference that "the IDF operated against terrorist target in Qana. The village has been used, since the onset of the confrontation, as a refuge for terror and a launch site for some 150 rockets at Israel, in some 30 volleys."

According to the general: "Since the first day of the fighting, we warned residents of southern Lebanon that they should distance themselves from terror operatives and launch sites, for their own safety. We dropped pamphlets, announced it in the media and operated in a gradual manner and, unfortunately, Saturday night civilians were killed, whom no one had the intention of attacking."

larwyn

Lurker,
Did you see the video of a truck/bus going into the building in Qana? What do you think of lack of dust on victims CNN was showing on original tapes?

Dinocrat today:
If you apologize for making war, you lose

If you apologize for making war, you lose. If every other day, you are ordering investigations into how your own side is waging its war, you lose. The logic is very simple. If you are making war and apologizing for it at the same time, someone else is setting the rules of the game.......
.........
What a delicious war Hezbollah and their allies in the MSM have created! They have shaped the battlefield so well. Every act by the country that was initially attacked now becomes the act of the aggressor. Every act to stop the rockets from Lebanon becomes an act of wanton cruelty because every rocket has been placed in somebody’s back yard. Fantastic. This is a textbook case of something we addressed previously: the logic of terrorism is that retaliation becomes the crime.

The US and Israel are playing Hezbollah’s game by Hezbollah’s rules when they are “deeply saddened” by Israel’s attack on a town that time and again has been set up as a civilian-laden target. They more properly should be “deeply saddened” and outraged that the fabulously remorseless Hezbollah constantly sets up this same situation over and over again. Somehow the US and Israel keep failing to learn, however, and Hezbollah keeps getting to set the rules of its war. For the US and Israel, their misplaced apologies look like milestones along the road to defeat......Dinocrat

Extraneus

Yeah, larwyn, we know Hezbollah's game, and we know the Israeli gov't and military do, too. The question is: Why are they playing along? Is it part of a strategy?

Kate

It is becoming increasingly difficult for either Israel or the US to win a war with a hostile international media providing the critique. The media is the 12th man on the field and they are clearly giving an advantage to the Islamists.

Interestingly, the international left and the Islamists are on opposite sides on every other issue, especically social issues. They are bound only by hatred of the US.

What can the US and Israel do to counter this relentless bias?

I can give dozens of examples, but I'll provide one. We could assume that based on the hyped coverage of the Abu Ghrabib scandal, the media is anxious to cover wrongdoing by militaries. However, they totally neglected a far more serious instance of UN peacekeepers sexually abusing children in Africa. Also, the story about French troops firing into a crowd of protestors and killing several got next to no coverage.

Dave Christie

Italics off?

Dave C

Lets try this again
Test

PeterUK

The psychopathy of the suicide bomber If they will do this they will do anything.

It is quite amazing how quickly Hezbollah got the the propaganda together

lurker

The good thing is that this time technology has advanced so much that Israel was able to video the proof of Hizbollah's vicious actions.

This has to be reflective of what it would be like living under the Caliphate, especially with that 16-year old girl sentenced to hang.

"Did you see the video of a truck/bus going into the building in Qana? What do you think of lack of dust on victims CNN was showing on original tapes?"

That's puzzling, isn't it? It could be that the building was not attacked by Israel but bombs set it off by Hizbollah...8 hours later.

What's wrong with strategic playing? After all, they have the same goals...win!

Rick Moran has an interesting post about The Next Hurrah.

Extraneus

What can the US and Israel do to counter this relentless bias?

Keep their eyes on the ball. You're right about the bias, Kate, but the fact of it doesn't have to change anybody's actions unless it's allowed to. For anyone considering their own survival, it should be simply viewed as enemy propaganda. The perpetrators are well known, and it isn't anything new.

Bush unfortunately suffers from an eloquence deficit, and is unable to frame the problem effectively except in prepared speeches, but you would hope Olmert could, and that he'd be less constrained by political correctness and domestic politics. What's his approval rating these days, anyway? (In Israel, of course.) Anyone seen anything on that?

larwyn

Why are they playing along? Is it part of a strategy?

Extraneous

AJ Strata is running great updates on what Israeli is releasing/going to release proving that Hez created this.

(So far no one here has responded to my description of the clips I saw on CNN last night re: lack of dust/blood)

If you heard Amb Gillerman at UN today, Israel is really NOT apologizing - they are going to bring proof and force it down the throats of CNN and others. Think they set this up days ago by giving "Wolfless Blitzer" his
"EXCULSIVE' video of JeT Skiers, rubber rafts and small boats with suicide bombers trying to get onto
Israeli shore. He has shown it every 30 minutes for past 3 days. So now he can't refuse the video that proves that the Hezzies are commiting WAR CRIMES - just like the photos published in Aussie paper that I linked to above.

Note this is "suspension" only of air in SOUTHERN Lebanon. And humanitarian aid is to be CO ORDINATED. ISRAELis will be watching every move and perhaps get some more video which CNN & Blitzer won't be so excited to have.

Last:
One of the rules of war is to confuse your enemies. Well, the Israelis are doing a fine job of
confusing our fine and knowledgeble bloggers - so hope that Hezzies feel the same.

lurker

Video of UN ambulance helping to hide the Hizbollah soldiers.

There are two other videos showing Hizbollah shooting rockets in behind a 3-story residential building (apartments).

This proves that the UN is becoming more and more of a scam…more like an enemy…The UN needs to be disbanded ASAP….

lurker

We should ask AJStrata the dust / blood question.

Here is one from Brussels:

Farewell to UN?

This war may just bring UN closer to its total collapse / end.

Kate

Ex-wasn't it Gulf War I were the press was banned from the battlefield. I like that but it wouldn't help with Israel. I think the imbedded reporter program was not the big success the Pentagon has made it out to be.

Extraneus

Can't see that video link, lurker. Can you re-post it?

Extraneus

And as for whether this suspension of air operations in S. Lebanon is part of a larger strategy, there's this.

larwyn

Graphics persons???
Check this out:

Poweline's Pic of 30 foot banner with Condi face

Qana was reported ~8:30 am and this banner was all ready for the demo a few hours later???

Powerline wants to know how this was accomplished in so short a time.

Rocco

What chance does Israel have with a UN Human Rights Commission like this?

Extraneus

Hey, larwyn, how about those big bloody lips, too, huh? Must be some Arab kid she just ate before giving to Olmert to make matzos. That spontaneous anger is pretty convincing!

lurker

Here is the video:

It's linked to youtube:

UN Ambulance

Beginning of telepresence?

clarice

I can't tell who's better at propaganda--Hezbollah or Human Rights Watch, but the lies seem to go unchallenged for shorter periods of time now (It's just that it takes the MSM longer to catch on..)

topsecretk9

--Graphics persons???--

It was pre-done. No way that was designed and produced so quick. It was ready.

lurker

Larwyn, it apperas to be pre-planned.

The Farewell to UN:

"On August 5, 1990, the 19th Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers adopted the Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam. According to the official English version, “All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Shari’a.” The CDHRI has since then become “a quotable source at the United Nations.”

"Hugh Fitzgerald of website Jihad Watch compares the UN to its failed predecessor, the League of Nations: “The League of Nations was not a mess in the 1920s. It became a mess when, in the 1930s, it could not handle Mussolini or Hitler, and failed. The U.N. was not originally a mess when founded, with such tutelary spirits as Rene Cassin and Eleanor Roosevelt. It became a mess sometime when more and more ‘countries’ that were primitive despotisms became members.” “Only a fool nowadays would use a phrase such as ‘international community,’ which attempts to treat Syria and Iceland as the same kind of members, or Costa Rica and Saudi Arabia, as similarly situated and behaving. There are no ‘united’ nations.”

This article needs to be cross posted everywhere.

"Fitzgerald thinks that “Unlike the League of Nations, it will not be closed down. But it should be ignored or mocked.” For once, I am not sure I totally agree with Hugh Fitzgerald, a man I otherwise hold in very high esteem. There are those who argue that the UN is useless, that it costs billions of dollars to maintain, without any proof that this helps to ensure world peace. I disagree. I think the UN can be quite useful. To our enemies, that is. It is easy to say that we should remain members of the UN and just “ignore” it, but I’m afraid this won’t work out. There will always be people within the West who take the UN seriously, and in reality, some of its resolutions will
influence our domestic policies."

topsecretk9

I don't even think the print time on those things can be the quick. Looks like vinyl so a sign production person would have to speak to that, but my experience is vinyl is slow go - it's not traditional on a press, but special gynormous printer. Anyone out there do billboard or vinyl production?

larwyn

Lurker,
yr 4:02 link to "Farewell to the UN" is terrific and hope all will read in full.
Glad to see excerpts already here.
Included TM in my email - think the UN DESERVES a stand alone post in this episode.

Lightning here so unplugged for awhile - but couldn't wait to get back to thank you for that one.

Darn can't see the videos on Old Betsy.

ANDREW SULLIVAN ALERT:
"The Chris Matthews Show" - AS is guest - he just said that it is due to fact that "Bush is an Alcholic that he can't deal with grey" - "it is what shapes him"

TALK ABOUT THE POT......

lurker

Thanks! Hey, Larwyn, I posted your question over at AJStrata.

lurker

Iranian Assistance to Hizbullah

"Iranian Assistance to Hizbullah - Iran Revolutionary Guards Officer: Hizbullah Has Iran-Trained Diver, Naval Commando Units; We Have Constructed Command Rooms for Hizbullah; Iranian Martyrdom Forces Have Been Sent To Lebanon"

Translated by Memri.

lurker

Sorry, I tried twice to post at AJStrata's.

larwyn

Lurker,
Tks for that - aj's site won't accept the new passwords wordpress sends to me. One of these days I'll play with it longer - but since probs here can no longer post there.

Saw another good clip - people carrying stretcher hurry to cover face with white sheet (CNN's Ben is talking about the DEAD being removed) except man's arm is raised perpendicular to his prone white sheeted body! Don't watch
CSI but if it was rigor, seems rest of body would be contorted also - it was flat.

Hope Israel has quite a show - could call it "Inconvenient Truths".

Carol Herman

First of all, time is not really something measured by one moment. Here, Israel is not just at war with lebanon, and the hezbollah. (And, let's not forget Gaza). It has a media war on its hands. And, old one. And, sometimes you just have to wait.

For instance, when the Passion of Christ came out by Mel Gibson, a lot of Jews worried that it would set off an anti-Semitic hate fest. It didn't do that. And, then, yesterday, on his own, caught drunk, Mel Gibson so intimidated his arresting officer, that the man (Officer Mee) TAPED the whole confrontation.

With Tequilla in Gibson, you got the truth. Though it took awhile to arrive.

Again, Israel is being accused by lebanon, the country that started this war, into a "Jenin" type crime. In Qana. But ya know what? It took the building that came down, about 8 hours to fall from the time it was hit! Like Jenin, it will take awhile for the truth to emerge.

While the "war" continues. The hardest front to defeat is the MEDIA FRONT. But it's doable. In the Internet Age.

And, sometimes ya just have to wait for the Ironies to develop. Want a good one from Hog on Ice's site? The Jews aren't responsible for War of the Worlds. That's Scientology.

And, South Park was right! There, you would have learned that Mel Gibson is nuts. He's nuts when sober, too.

larwyn

Sec. Rice photo in
TIME MAGAZINE Captioned:

"Some Bush aides sniff that her shufflediplomacy in the Middle East has no attainable goal. But the State Department often outmaneuvers the Pentagon"
Didn’t it used to be “shuttle diplomacy?”

http://pajamasmedia.com/

If this is accurate the "Bush aides" should be fired.

clarice

8:59 PM: In light of the IAF Commander’s comments that there is a discrepency between the timing of the IAF attacks and when it was reported that the house exploded (7-8 hours), an investigation is being opened up to determine whether Israel is even responsible for the deaths in Kfar Qana this morning. The death toll has risen to 60. The Commander’s comments have raised the possibility that Hezbollah themselves may have blown up the building, or that explosives that were hiden in the building may have gone off. These possibilities were raised because the IDF have found neighboring houses to be rigged with explosives, and that many houses have been used as storage sheds for rockets and other munitions. IDF aerial footage also showed that the IAF attack also didn’t directly hit the building, and the building did NOT collapse after the IAF strike.

http://www.me-ontarget.com/the_daily_tidbit/p,197/

noah

Lot of wishful thinking has taken over this thread.

Jim Rockford

Net Centric warfare has advantages and disadvantages. The biggest is when nations decide to get serious about killing the enemy, traditional Western Militaries are very effective at killing lots of people. As Curtis LeMay said, "kill enough of them and they stop fighting."

Organizing masses of people in heirarchical fashion to generate the Manhattan Project is one thing; so is the current generation of ballistic missile submarines for which there exists no effective counter either.

If pressed Israel will use nuclear weapons to either bring down the temple or strike first. Simple as that.

Don't think that other nations won't get their either; suppose Morroco or Libya or Algeria or Mexico harbor "paramilitary groups" that fire missiles at Palermo or Madrid or San Diego and demand money, release of prisoners, or territory. Why not? If it works for the Party of God why not the Colonel or some Caudillo or Algerian/Morrocan ambitious military leader?

Short range rockets with crude enough guidance systems to hit a city and loaded with nukes (61 year old tech) or VX (100 year old tech) are impossible to stop due to their short flight time and low altitude. Believe me this situation has not escaped the notice of thoughtful observers.

And the tragedy is that no government can survive if it surrenders to this organizational blackmail (and the demands are likely to be territorial). Thus we'll see in the end massive killing; V2s versus ICBMS.

lurker

Noah, what do you mean by wishful thinking?

lurker

Clarice, looks like the law of war, including Geneva Treaty, need to be revisited.

While Hiz has no respect for civilian lives, we should but do not deserve the disproportionate responses from UN, leftwingers, and others.

Larwyn, my two posts finally made it through the cache over at AJstrata's.

Jim Rockford, scary scenarios to even think about.

John Oh

Just to add to Jim Rockford's comment: The big army can crush terror or resistence if price is no object. The Nazis were quite willing to kill everyone in town to eliminate the few who would dare resist. I wonder what would have happened to a reporter that would have dared report it? Very soon there was virtually no resistence. The Soviets were fairly good at this also.

To Americans, today, this is unthinkable. One chemical weapon or similar, and it will be common sense.

clarice

Syria did, too, about 20 or 20 years ago. It told everyone to get out of a city, said anyone who remained would be considered an enemy and then murdered thousands of people.

clarice

"The Hama massacre occurred when the government of Syria attacked the town of Hama and killed thousands of people on February 2, 1982. Amnesty International claims that 10,000-25,000 were killed at Hama, though many figures exist and the number could be considerably smaller or larger than this. The Syrian government had made no official claim about the number killed at Hama."

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:uZm8_4_SzrsJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_Massacre+Syrian+massacre&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2>Hama

larwyn

You must see this -Milking it? EU Referendum - it is beyond
my powers of description.
They are barbarians and on site media are ghouls.
Link was at Ace of Spades:


"Certainly, the photographs are distressing, and indeed they are meant to be. As this piece tells us:
SNIP.....


The photos, taken by The Associated Press, Reuters, and others, showed bodies in the rubble, or being taken away; survivors digging or wailing

But the photographers, it seems, are not too fussy about how they go about "adding to the shock value".....

In this first of the two sequences, we see a shot by Reuters and taken by Adnan Hajj, timed at 2:21 pm. It has the caption:


Rescuers pull the body of a toddler victim of an Israeli air raid on Qana that killed more than 60 people, the majority of them women and children, in south Lebanon, July 30, 2006.

The next shot in this sequence is credited to AP's Kevin Frayer. Timed at 4.09 pm, it shows the same "rescue" worker,(and same body-ed) and has this caption:"....

You have to see the photos & read along.

They make death a photo op with retakes/reposes.

Do note that the victim in 2nd series is "dust" free.

I am personally upset that these savages have stolen some of my own humanity, that I would look for the dust. But I am not truly certain that the 2nd victim is actually dead, having seen the photos of the childrens brigades of Hezballah.

topsecretk9

Man...my house was broken into and my laptop stolen.

noah

Every time HzB fires a katusha rocket into Israel it is violating the Geneva Conventions. If Nasrullah were to be captured by Israel or arrested by Lebanese authorities could he be tried for war crimes? Clarice?

Yet the media ignores this obvious fact...and given the gestalt of our times who can blame them? "You are just blaming the victims of Western/Zionist oppression", blah, blah, blah.

Can the gestalt be changed? Will the media ever have an "aha" moment? I hope so. But that is wishful thinking.

Bob

With regards to the Condi poster, you can produce something like that within hours. Like the technology that brings you instant updates and video, printing graphic that size is not difficult anymore. In fact I have a 42" wide printer in my office that could have made that with piecing a number of sheets together, however there are larger commercial printers that could have produced that very quickly right from a computer.

The real question is this. If the West is so bad, why use our technology? I hate these thugs blaming the west for all their problems while on their cell phones and clucking before the cameras. Have these morons developed anything useful since the 7th century?

Patton

http://hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs7984

Hezbollah terrorist stores military weapons next to the baby carrier.

Don't tell me these people care about the safety of their children. An RPG is a offensive weapon.

lurker

False larm? We will see.

Those posed photos are sickening. They have no respect for the dead.

Post War Plans for the Hezzies if they win. They will go after Lebanon.

lurker

Dennis Lommel of Counterterrorism wrote this , first paragraph would be incorrect if the videos and photos prove Hezzie responsible for the Qana bombings.

Violation of the Geneva Convention

lurker

France isn't going to help get the UN resoltion passed against Iran.

Iran a Respected and stabilizing force in ME

Extraneus

Assume for the moment a few reasonable possibilities:

1. Israel anticipated the Qana business, as well as the media hype which would ensue. (This isn't exactly a new play in the playbook.)

2. The suspension of aerial ops is part of their strategy. (This could be for any number of reasons, including a combination of psyops lulling the enemy into thinking they're winning while shifting to an already-planned ground-phase, etc.)

3. The Bush Administration is well aware of the real strategy, on board, and helping on the diplomatic side.

It might then follow that:

a) Dr. Rice would take credit for the suspension (wasn't there some sort of confusion where Americans actually announced this before the Israelis did?); and

b) We'll be seeing phase two very soon.

Considering the fact that this whole thing has probably been war-gamed a hundred times, and that nothing unpredictable has happened so far, I highly doubt that this is going to end as some sort of improvised bungled debacle for Israel, at least not yet. Remember, the objective is to kill a large number of Hezbos.

lurker

Someone is reporting it right this time.

Bloody Sunday: Hezbollah Causes Deaths of 60 women and Children Using Residence as Human Shiel

lurker

Guess the suspension never took place?

Air Strikes continue.

verner

Lurker, more on the French:

"In the region there is of course a country such as Iran - a great country, a great people and a great civilization which is respected and which plays a stabilizing role in the region," he told a news conference.

One word--Vichy.

Cecil Turner

Steyn has an article up which sums up the predominant journalist view nicely:

In fact, the notion that "fighting" a war is the monopoly of those "in uniform" gets to the heart of why America and its allies are having such a difficult time in the present struggle.
Unfortunately, it's out to lunch. The general agreement between nations to limit combatancy rights to uniformed personnel was a conscious effort to spare civilian populations from the horrors of war. These rules, developed over centuries, provide for draconian punishments for violators:
. . . such men, or squads of men, are not public enemies, and, therefore, if captured, are not entitled to the privileges of prisoners of war, but shall be treated summarily as highway robbers or pirates.
And for good reason . . . The current conflict provides several stark examples of why the failure to separate belligerents from the general population leads to tragedy. And yes, it's the fault of those who flout the laws of war, not those who respond. The lack of understanding (and willful unwillingness of journos to understand and report this accurately) plays into the hands of our enemies, and represents their own cluelessness . . . not anyone else's.

Related: some ambulance antics.

verner

TS,

Are you serious? Someone broke in and stole your laptop. Anything else?

I feel your pain. So sorry.

Lurker

I just read that Syria wanted this war so that they can get the Golan Heights, a perfect spot for launching rockets towards Israel.

Lebanon says NO to International Force (or rather they don't want French involcement).

Seems that one side has to win this war in order to reach a long term sustaining cease fire. Right now, no one agrees. Lebanon is caught between a rock and a hard place.

Yeah, seems that Israel, USA, UK, Australia are quickly going to have to rethink their ways of fighting a war against guerillas.

Lurker

Sigh...

Isn't this the Soros-funded organization?

Extraneus

There is another possibility.

Say the good guys have decided that fighting non-uniformed guerillas and insurgents is too messy, and that if they must fight, they would rather fight actual countries with armies and infrastructures and responsibilities to their citizens. Wouldn't it then be useful from Israel's point of view for Hamas to take over Palestine and Hezbollah Lebanon?

Maybe part of the strategy is to help that along.

Lurker

Part of the strategy?

Heh, the strategy is to take over UN, Europe, and all of ME...at a minimum.

Two words...

World Dominion.

verner

Oh yeah lurker.

The current head of Soros' "Open Society" was the former head of Human Rights Watch. And the current head of HRW is a partisan democrat who was on Lawrence Walsh's "Iran Contra" team.

Check out Howowitz's "Discover the network. HRW is anti-Israel to the bone.

I also suspect them of co-ordinating efforts with the Euro-socialists weenies in the EU parliament. When the EU passed the "resolutions" to investigate "secret gulags" on european soil, they quoted two sources--Dana Priest and a HRW report. As the church lady would say--Oh how conveeeenant. And. by the way, still NO PROOF that they ever existed--not that that matters.

Also the 2005 "World" report was nothing more than a full frontal political attack on the Bush administration.

HRW has done some good work in the past, but now they are nothing but anti-administration shills.

Extraneus

OT: The term "tar baby" is no longer allowed.

Lurker

Larwyn, you got your answer over at AJStrata but that seems to resonate at many conservative blogs this morning. Captain's Quarters' words are shared among many of us.

noah

Cecil, I am afraid you either didn't read Steyn's article or are obtusely missing his meaning.

My reading (which seems obvious) is that war is the collective act of a nation as a whole not just its armies/navies. His point had nothing at all to do with the laws of war.

sbw

OT -- Tar baby. Chairperson. Huperson. Underlying it all is that people think they think simply because they think they do. And no one -- in school or out -- has taught them the necessity to check and verify. United Nations. Democratic Party. MSM. Rabid Right. The list goes on. Political correctness is a sign of a misspent youth -- going to school instead of geting an education. /OT

Extraneus

And right on cue, Netanyahu is starting to make noise. He has to. Otherwise, anyone could conclude that his silence is an indication that he agrees with the strategy, which would also mean that the strategy is more hawkish than it might otherwise appear, therefore rendering any moves Israel makes more transparent than necessary.

SunnyDay

Hezbollywood? Evidence mounts that Qana collapse and deaths were staged

Interesting summary of details about Qana

L Elion

In a sense the German Army faced the same tactics as it crossed the Russian frontier. The entire population of the area fought against them. This is, ( although our hawks are even deluded about the extent and true nature of our enemy.) what Israel,( and therefore us), is facing in south Lebonon. since no enemy can be identified, militarily the only way to win is to totally destroy everything that moves in a proscribed area. There are no civilians.

Lurker

"Yet even with an Israeli victory apparently distant -- even with an Israeli resumption of hostilities so uncertain -- international diplomacy has expressed confidence that a ceasefire and lasting peace was attainable within a week. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice said, "As I head back to Washington, I take with me an emerging consensus on what is necessary for both a cease-fire and a lasting settlement. I am convinced we can achieve both this week." Tony Blair said "You know the position of Israel, now there's a statement from the UN Security Council which shows the right degree of unity in the international community. What's important now is that we have a real chance of getting a UN Security Council resolution, which will give us an opportunity both to have a complete cessation of hostilities and to do so on a sustainable and lasting basis."

I'm not confident that either 1) UN will approve a Chapter 7 resolution or 2) whatever UN comes up with, it will be enforceable.

The Hezzies are going to continue with whatever they want in spite of UN efforts; therefore, Israel has to go all the way.

I remember watching a video showing the Russian government using its prisoners as human shields during WWII.

M. Simon

Here is my view of what the Israeli strategy is:

Tactics, Strategy, Grand Strategy

Israel could defeat Syria and with American help Iran.

What is needed is time.

Watch for a move into the Bekaa Valley.

rogera

Good comments on this thread; some takeaway points for me were:
(1) the need to revisit the entire concept of the law of war and the geneva conventions in light of the callous strategy of using civilians;
(2) operational strategies to fight an urban based guerilla war
(3) news media as an operational arm of propaganda and how that meshes with tactics.

With respect to (3), clearly the HBH goons are using katushya rockets with at least two purposes--to kill israelis and to invite israeli strikes at launch sites that may in turn result in civilian casualties--and more news coverage. Clearly modern day operations orders need a separate annex on media strategy.

clarice

ts--sorry to hear of the breakin and theft.
noah, about war crimes..Because the media relies on dopes for their anaysis, I haven't seen this issue raised, but the use of Katyushas and other rockets which cannot be accurately aimed at civilian populations certainly is a war crime.

But I have to tell you my cynical view of international law. The more it deals with quotidian everyday commercial matters and the less it deals with "big things", the more likely it is fairly applied and enforceable.

Decades after Pol Pot exterminated millions no one in his organization has even been tried by the International Court.

The love of some people for sealing wax and formal documents puzzles me utterly in the face of the facts. It's all politics and the winner decides in sych matters.

Gary Maxwell

militarily the only way to win is to totally destroy everything that moves in a proscribed area. There are no civilians.

That a little too strong for me. Any evidence of military resistance has to be met with force though. And if you tell folks to leave and only then start responding, its not to be unexpected that people who remain ( either through choice or from intimidation) may get caught in crossfires or just be unlucky as in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The answer to much of this conflict is mind numbingly simple. Take out Assad and his government, thereby denying easy resupply from and through Syria. And some well supplied insurgents in Iran, might give the mullahs in Iran something else to spend their time and effort on. Works for me.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame