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July 07, 2006

Comments

danking70

Yup, looks like everybody knew about it.

Other Tom

What is Bill Keller saying now?

clarice

I think he should be sentenced to ride the path trains twice a day every day at rush hour.

owl

I say somebody get a rope and also supply puke buckets if we ever hear another politician talk about Kerry's good allies.

SunnyDay

Krugman has written something, but I'm not paying to read it.

Carol Herman

Early in American history it was known the europeans allied themselves against the fledging United States; only 13 Colonies, at the time. Benjamin Franklin played the French against the British. And, he did this when sea travel, across the Atlantic was not ideal.

Not to waste time, he'd do experiments of his own devising. While the french king was about to go to the guillotine. And, napoleon, coming to power, would end up selling us the Louisiana Purchase.

To top things off, the British bought off the indians, supplying them with rifles and ammo. And, the indians acted like savages against the American settlers. A lot of good this did them in the long run; however, because all it did was make the Americans very angry. And, ya know the mantra: "A good injun was a dead injun."

Those things don't happen overnight.

And, to expect that we're surrounded by friends; no envy in sight, is stoopid.

The press tried its hardest to give the elites the best advantages. And, now they're losing customers. Worse, the people who "go their way" can't read. So it's worthless to think of them as a "customer base." Besides, they're not the ones earning money; they don't work for welfare, instead. And, that means the MSM loses on every count. Because these days there's a sophistication out there, which really measures the "REACH" you get; or the "bang for your buck."

There's not much we can do about the spillage of secrets; except to notice that the CIA hired bimbos like plame. And, the FBI hired Mark Felt. You can probably guess that the buracracies aren't doing the best they can. Nor do they communicate all that well.

Because before the secrets spillage we're seeing going on; there were the boondoggles where computers were bought that malfunctioned, or "didn't talk to each other" as soon as they went operational.

Nope. We'll never live in a perfect world.

As to the terrorists, I'm guessing they thought they could win on the cheap. As they do in europe. Where there's no way to defend your property. And, the mistakes of Marx abound. Here? We never really caught their diseases. While, yes, we're familiar with the infections, just the same.

To win, ahead, you need functioning militaries. Not too many states have got them.

By the way, a long time ago, when Cassius Clay, also known as Mohammed Ali was in top form, he used to give boxing a sort'of poetry. And, what I still remember is "MOVE LIKE A BUTTERFLY, STING LIKE A BEE."

We can train to that! Especially because Donald Rumsfeld's gone and worked miracles at the Pentagon.

And, who knows? John Bolton may be scoring points at the UN; where, when he's finished, they won't be able to call any shots? They'll just have temper tantrums? Why not think that there are certain consequences to what the elites bought hook, line and sinker? Ya know, the Titanic's builders SWORE the ship wouldn't sink! They were so fully confident of their prowess, they eliminated some of the life boats. To stuff the ship full of more passengers.

That ship went down in 1912. Proving how long it's been that you shouldn't let your knickers go into knots because of the stuff you read in print.

The best secrets are still in place. And, some day the MSM will pay for their behaviors. Just like Dan RaTHer did.

Other Tom

Here's a couple more guys who didn't know:


"Treasury pointed immediately to the capture of the terrorist known as 'Hambali.' Hambali, or Riduan Isamuddin, masterminded the 2002 Bali bombings that killed 202 innocent men and women. He has been in U.S. custody since his arrest in 2003 in Thailand, and the SWIFT program was 'a vital tool' leading to his capture. The program was crucial to the discovery and conviction of one Uzair Paracha last fall in Brooklyn on charges of providing material support to al Qaeda in Pakistan through money laundering.

"Those are merely the two most prominent examples. The program is said to be a primary source, if not the primary source, of the U.S. government's understanding of terrorism financing: Who funds it, how they do it, through whom they pass money, how much lead time precedes an attack and other critically useful antiterrorism facts. It provides 'a unique and powerful window into the operations of terrorist networks,' says Stuart Levey, Treasury Department undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence."

carol

Carol:

Your rhetoric is reaching the drivel stage.

davod

PS:

Sorry got carried away with the name that never stops writing. The 1:10 am post should have been posted by Davod.

davod

As an aside:

Does the latest revelations about the NY-NJ tunnels mean the leakers are spreading their message to other MSM sources to divert attention from the NYT.

The effect is the same. The investigation was in progress and the FBI has had to move quickly to salvage what it can now the plot has been revealed.

There was no danger to the public by not revealing the program because they had got the principal.

PeterUK

Right on cue,the predicted political shit storm,it wasn't who knew,it was who could not afford to be seen publicly to know.
It was inevitable that EU politicians would create a stink after the New York Times rubbed the issue in their faces.It is also obvious that Bill Keller should have forseen this,if he did and he published he is damned,if he didn't he should get out of political journalism for something more suitable like covering pony shows,where at least irate little girls can beat him to a pulp if he errs.

Extraneus

So...how will the next 9/11 Commission go? I imagine it'll be hard to fault Bush & Co. for not taking actions -- pre-emptive and otherwise -- to "connect the dots," etc., but assuming it'll be just as politicized as the last one, how will the anti-war left be able to withstand the glare of those of us who'll know they helped bring the next one about? After all, this disclosure business isn't really just politics, as various Administration witnesses will surely testify to. I guess they'll have to explain why they didn't take the gloves off on the domestic side, though.

lurker

One key statement Bill Keller made on Charlie Rose show:

"Bill Keller on Charlie Rose last night: "I can't know, nor can the administration know what the consequences are going to be."

Wha????

Check radioblogger for other key statements. Keller needed the NDA so he can see the details before making decisions!

Can't believe the statements both Keller and Rose made last night.

lurker

Anyone notice that US has offered bilateral talks with North Korea?

Hope US is smarter this time!

lurker

Well, Tom DeLay just might not retire after all...

well, pending fifth circuti appeal.

Tom is fully aware that the dems want to hone in on Tom's legal problems.

What legal problems? If Tom is "forced" run, then his campaign should hone in on runaway special prosecutors by shifting the attention to Ronnie Earle. Imagine Ronnie Earle getting in the middle of it!

lurker

It's a small world!!!

Loved Jay Tea's writeup.

lurker

It's a small world!!!

Loved Jay Tea's writeup.

SunnyDay

Just read BK on Charlie Rose. I believe the story about EU had broken before that interview. They both just ignored it, said there had been no backwash from our allies. Sheesh.

Patrick R. Sullivan

'Krugman has written something, but I'm not paying to read it.'

You don't have to (but the irony is delicious that Krugman would publish a column criticize the Bush Admin for 'playing the Treason card' on the same day the Daily News blows up an ongoing FBI investigation and allows 5 of 8 terrorist plotters to escape arrest) 'cause it's available for free. For instance at Mark Thoma's 'Economist's Vier':

And Krugman opens with a stunning bit of self-unawareness:

'The nature of the right-wing attack on The New York Times — an attack not on the newspaper's judgment, but on its motives ...'

Kate

The EU seems to be hellbent on self-destruction. I notice the Italians seem to be arresting their senior intelligence officials, the ones that helped protect them from terrorist attacks. This almost seems like some strange comedy, but it's sadly true.

The Death of the West or the Suicide of the West. Death by political correctness.

SunnyDay

Thanks, Patrick!

SunnyDay

Ooooooooh the irony is delicious. :) Krugman is such a dipshit. 'scuse me.

SteveMG

Bit off topic but compare and contrast:
Three suicides at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, may have been part of a broader plot by detainees who were using confidential lawyer-client papers and envelopes to pass handwritten notes their guards could not intercept, according to documents that government lawyers filed yesterday in federal court. Wash. Post 7/8

and

Justice Stevens in his recent Hamdan majority opinion:

Nothing in the record . . . demonstrates that it would be impracticable to apply court-martial rules to the prosecution of terror suspects.

Just swell.

SMG

PeterUK

Kate,
What do you expect EU politicians to do,there was tacit understanding over the SWIFT monitoring,then some leftoid on the make splashes it all over the New York Times,shoving it under their noses like an dirty old pair of socks.
Many of their constituents opposed the War in Iraq and the WoT,as did not a few of European partiesthese are elected MPs.

There are banking laws,privacy laws,data protection acts and the overarching European Convention on Human Rights,each one a legal thicket of huge proportions.Now Privacy International has the bit between its teeth,Noam Chomsky,Harold Pinter et al,this is going to be blown up into a first rank disaster.

c550

EU wants to know if there were other countries operations officers there, aside from those like Plame.

CIA would have used the information and contacts for espionage as it always does; 'Plame' would have outed these and other countries powers just as she did in the US, Iraq, and Spain.

'We can train to do that;' Why, so a 'Plame' can turn on us?

Kate

PUK-I agree that our blabbermouth media has made it more likely that the Europeans would have to investigate this nonsense. However, the EU parliament consists of a bunch of nasty leftists who enjoy this business. It is self destructive. When given the choice between giving up some privacy or being blown to smithereens (sp?) by Islamic fanatics-the choice wouldn't even be close. I regret that the New York Times made the choice for me. I really think they expect to escape a terrorist attack because of their eliteness, they think it will just be the unwashed masses that get hit.

PeterUK

Kate,
A lot are leftists,but so are many in the US,many are not,nobody was bothered until Bill Keller started running off at the mouth,now there isn't a choice>
Worse the leaks from your intelligence officials have damaged relations with European intelligence services,many of these services were very efficient,despite what you might think.Moreover,they could do things which your laws might make difficult,the NSA comes to mind.
Now, nobody knows when some self appointed "whistleblower" will take it upon themselves to reveal information.Much of what goes on in the twilight world of intelligence is on,or over the bounds of conventional legallity,passed on with a nod and a wink.As the legal profession anf the MSM drags these issues into the light of day,so will cooperation decrease.
Perhaps that is what somebody wants.

Jane

Lots of people are speculating that the latest leak involving the Holland Tunnel was leaked to underscore that NY had its funding cut.

Bunch of mercenaries out there.

Kevin B
The European Parliament the same day called for the European Central Bank to clarify how much it knew about the SWIFT-CIA links, while saying CIA snooping "could give rise to large-scale forms of economic and industrial espionage."

Can anyone who's been following this story closely tell me if the CIA was involved in this? I was under the impression that US Treasury was the lead agency in this, and it's unlikely that CIA got involved with anything but the product. That is, when tracing money led to terrorists and bodies on the ground were needed to pick them up. Even then the locals would be most involved in any arrests or whatever.

The CIA would not be involved in "monitoring financial transactions", but the CIA is the big bogeyman to the left in Europe and I suspect this is why they are named in these reports.

Jane

My understanding is that the CIA was not in on it.

clarice

It would be wrong but we could start posting on jihadi websites blueprints for the EU Parliament and offices.

PeterUK

Clarice,
What,and get all the people of Europe on the Jihadi's side?

Kevin B

Thanks Jane.

"The CIA is snooping in your bank account" is much scarier than "US Treasury is monitoring international money flows".

I agree with PUK that the constant drip drip drip of leaks is making it politically and operationally harder for foreign governments and intelligence agencies to co-operate in the WOT.

There seems to be three prongs to the leftist framing WOT.

1) Minimise the threat. (By playing down any terrorism incidents and blaming the West, especially Bush, for what can't be downplayed.)

2) Multiculturism. (The West is no better than the Other and we're to blame for their past conditions, their present conditions and anything they might do to us now)

3) Weaken our ability to respond. (The leaks which both forewarn the terrorists and limit co-operation. The whole Gitmo/rendition/torture kerfuffle. The Iraq War can not be allowed to succeed. Etc. etc.)

If I were a cynic, I would suspect a plan here, and I would also wonder where the money was coming from.

(OK, I'm a cynic. There's Wahhabist money funding this.)

clarice

Heh, PUK

europesucks

I don't think we should take an active hand in matters of the sort described by Clarice. But it is high time to stop defending the decadence of old Europe. Let's pull our troops out of Germany and station them in Poland for one thing. Let's move our airbase out of Aviano and put it in Tblisi. Let's stop funding the defence of the decadent braying jackasses of western Europe and start defending people who actually have a hope of building societies instead of riding them into the ground, and while we're at it, stick a finger in Putin's eye.

Do I dare say it? I hate Europe. I hate Euope so much that it makes me want to yell every time I have to pay the tax bill to support armies there. I hate their drab childless welfare states, and I hate their spineless multiculturalism which cedes moral authority to jihadists, and I hate their intellectual lassitude which cedes policymaking to unelected bureaucrats in the EU.

And I hate their post-Marxist excuses for everything: to wit, that the cause of every problem is colonialism and the solution to every problem is an exploitative tinpot dictator who regularly denounces the United States. It is the mark of weak intellects that cannot see the dynamics underneath the rhetoric. And I hate their unelected bureaucrats rushing to dismantle their own defences, like SWIFT, that their own elites obviously must have known about, but now pander to the intellectual weaklings who clamor on behalf of their own destruction.

I want our armies out of there and when they're gone, I invite every jihadist to come and make your home in Europe. I want our armies out of there because if you think Iraq looks like a quagmire now, just wait and see what Germany looks like in 5 years, or Spain, or Italy, or France. They're going to burn like Paris did last year, at the hands of people who came there to fill the space left by non-existent children of Europeans. Hey, did you think the Turks and Morrocans and Algerians and Pakistanies were coming to Europe to work in order to support your aging Mommies and Daddies while you were at the beach? The immigrants have better things to do, like build the caliphate, and you and your aging parents are just in the way. Someday you'll come to know that. And let it be known far and wide that we in America do not want our troops to stand between the jihadists and the backstabbers. Have it out your own way, and we'll deal with whatever comes after.



PeterUK

Kevin B,
Time to start wondering who is living above their apparent means,has a slightly too expensive a house or car,who is swimming in a pool above their pay grade,pushing more up their noses than they earn,who has a job in a Saudi think tank or can look foreward to one when they retire?
Cetainly the series of events drummed up by the NYT goes way over and above simple partisan politics.

clarice

europe, Until 2002 I spent a considerable amount of time in Europe every year, but having come to your point of view I haven't been back since. I miss the beauty of Franch and would consider Italy again, but generally speaking it occurs to me that in my lifetime every bad idea had a European root.

Tom Maguire

Re CIA involvement - this was in the 3rd paragraph of the first Times story:

Viewed by the Bush administration as a vital tool, the program has played a hidden role in domestic and foreign terrorism investigations since 2001 and helped in the capture of the most wanted Qaeda figure in Southeast Asia, the officials said. The program, run out of the Central Intelligence Agency and overseen by the Treasury Department, "has provided us with a unique and powerful window into the operations of terrorist networks and is, without doubt, a legal and proper use of our authorities," Stuart Levey, an undersecretary at the Treasury Department, said in an interview Thursday.

Not clear - the Folks in Belgium (actually, IIRC the database is physically maintained in the Netherlands) probably meet with US Treasury banking types. But we all know who pulls the strings.

PeterUK

"Have it out your own way, and we'll deal with whatever comes after."

An Islamic Europe with nuclear weapons and a huge technical and industrial base?

Thes possibility of civil war which will also engulf the Eastern European states?

Conflict on the borders of the still nuclear armed Russia?

Lastly,the responsibility, in part,by American administrations,of pushing European integration for decades.

BTW,Thanks for the concepts of multiculturalism and political correctness which were spawned in America.

Kevin B

PUK

You're right about the Saudi, (and other ME), think tank jobs and the speech and lecture circuit jobs that are going around. But I'm also thinking about organisations. VIPs and the CIP, (? the one that Dana's hubby is involved with)come to mind. I know Soros' money is in there but who else's.

Kevin B

TM

If it says CIA in the Times then it must be true. I take it all back.

Seriously, even if it is run out of CIA, they are only interested in the product, not the details.

Jane

The program, run out of the Central Intelligence Agency and overseen by the Treasury Department

Well I certainly stand (er sit) corrected.

Kevin B

Actually, thinking about it, has there been any adminstration admission, (or denial), that the program was run out of CIA. I really don't trust the NYT, and I wouldn't put it past them to sneak that little detail in without confirmation. Although I suppose the fact that it was leaked would tend to confirm that the CIA was involved. If the NYT was sitting on this for a while, perhaps the sainted MOM was involved.

lurker

Has anyone read Bat Y'eor's work about Eurasia?

I received an email about what it means to live under Sharia law. It discussed how punishment was meted out to a young boy between 8 to 12 years old for stealing food because he was hungry. It included photos showing how they punished him. The punishment was to force the young boy to the ground, spread his left arm out AND drive a truck over the young boy's left arm - destroyed and maimed for life.

Tom Maguire

Although I suppose the fact that it was leaked would tend to confirm that the CIA was involved.

On a parallel track - how does the Treasury overlap with regular law enforcement on drug-related "follow-the-money" investigations?

I would think a similar approach would be done with SWIFT - the Treasury does the nitty-gritty work, and passes useful info to law enforcement, or the CIA.

Of course, it is a huge fedback loop, since law enforcement (or CIA) has to give Treasury some ideas about what to look for.

Kevin B

TM

What a great neologism. I can think of so many things the poor taxpayers money are spent on that could be described as a fedback loop

SunnyDay

Hahahahaha!!

NY Times Reporter Body Armor Vulnerability Analysis

sophy

I do not know how to use the flyff gold ; my friend tells me how to use.

LOTRO Gold

When you have LOTRO Gold, you can get more!

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