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September 09, 2006

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Thomas Morrissey

From the latest S.S.C.I( phase 2) report, via Captains Quarters,

Phase II 'Accuracy' Report Proves Joe Wilson A Liar

On February 4, 2003, the U.S. government provided copies of the Niger uranium documents to the IAEA with talking points which stated, "two streams of reporting suggest Iraq has attempted to acquire uranium from Niger. We cannot confirm these reports and have questions regarding specific claims. Nonetheless, we are concerned that these reports may indicate Baghdad has attempted to secure an unreported source of uranium yellowcake for a nuclear weapons program." The two streams of reporting refer to the intelligence reports from the foreign intelligence service and a CIA intelligence report reflecting the findings of a former Ambassador's visit to Niger.

Dale in Atlanta

Mac: so, IF I read your analysis correctly, what you're saying is, that it's painfully obvious, that this ENTIRE Plamegate scandal, was created by Armitage/Wilson and their cohorts/enablers in the BDS-addled MSM, and that there NEVER was any attempt, by Libby, Cheney, Bush, Rove, to "out" Plame, and "get-back" at Wilson?

Is that a fair assessment?

In otherword, MSM like the NYT, WaPost, etc., threw gasonline on a fire that they and Wilson started themselves??

Is that correct?

windansea

gosh...all these "corrections" on the 1x2x6 story...why are they coming out now?

I am reminded of the dolphin I saw tail-walking backwards 50 yeards offshore from my office yesterday

windansea

twas the night before Fitzmas,

and all through the ClownHouse,

not a lefty was stirring,

not even a Jeff...

the sealed indictments hung by the chimney with care

in the hopes that Saint Fitzmas soon would be there

The moonbats were nestled all snug in their beds

while visions of frogmarches danced in their heads

"Now, Hamster! now, Wheeler! now, Mathews and Wilson!

On, Cornball! on Fineman! on, Cooper and Blitzer!

To the top of the porch! to the top of the wall!

Now dash away! dash away! dash away all!"

jerry

Jerry's here, feigning patience with Fitzgerald. You still in Mexico with the bandits windandsea? That dolphin stuff sounds pretty nice.

Soe

Dale,

That is correct and that was always Plame's goal.

KennyKSRO

Who do you think the retired state dept official is in this forgotten July 2005 story? Armitage?

http://www.ftimes.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=28384&TM=32713.35

Memo Gets Attention in Probe of CIA Leak

By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer
WASHINGTON - A State Department memo that has caught the attention of prosecutors describes a CIA officer's role in sending her husband to Africa and disputes administration claims that Iraq was shopping for uranium, a retired department official said Tuesday.

The classified memo was sent to Air Force One just after former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson went public with his assertions that the Bush administration overstated the evidence that Iraq was interested in obtaining uranium from Niger for nuclear weapons.

The memo has become a key piece of evidence in the CIA leak investigation because it could have been the way someone in the White House learned — and then leaked — the information that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and played a role in sending him on the mission.

The document was prepared in June 2003 at the direction of Carl W. Ford Jr., then head of the State Department's bureau of intelligence and research, for Marc Grossman, the retired official said. Grossman was the Undersecretary of State who was in charge of the department while Secretary Colin Powell and his deputy, Richard Armitage, were traveling. Grossman needed the memo because he was dealing with other issues and was not familiar with the subject, the former official said.

"It wasn't a Wilson-Wilson wife memo," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is still under way. "It was a memo on uranium in Niger and focused principally on our disagreement" with the White House.

Armitage called Ford after Wilson's op-ed piece in The New York Times and his TV appearance on July 6, 2003 in which he challenged the White House's claim that Iraq had purchased uranium yellowcake from Niger.

Armitage asked that Powell, who was traveling to Africa with Bush, be given an account of the Wilson trip, said the former official.

The original June 2003 memo was readdressed to Powell and included a short summary prepared by an analyst who was at a 2002 CIA meeting where Wilson's trip was arranged and was sent in one piece to Powell on Air Force One the next day.

The memo said Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and suggested her husband go to Niger because he had contacts there and had served as an American diplomat in Africa. However, the official said the memo did not say she worked undercover for the spy agency nor did it identify her as Valerie Plame, which was her maiden name and cover name at the CIA.

Her identity as Plame was disclosed first by columnist Robert Novak and then by Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper. The leak investigation by special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald is looking into who in the Bush administration leaked Plame's identity to reporters and whether any laws were broken.

A 1982 law prohibits the deliberate exposure of the identity of an undercover CIA officer.

Wilson believes the Bush administration leaked the name as retribution for his criticism.

President Bush said Monday he would fire any member of his staff who "committed a crime," a change from his previous vow to fire anyone involved in the leak.

The past two weeks have brought revelations that top presidential aide Karl Rove was involved in leaking the identity of Plame to Novak and to Cooper.

The former State Department official stressed the memo focused on Wilson's trip and the State Department intelligence bureau's disagreement with the White House's claim about Iraq trying to get nuclear material. He said the fact that the CIA officer and Wilson were husband and wife was largely an incidental reference.

The June 2003 memo had not gone higher than Grossman until Wilson's op-ed column for The New York Times headlined "What I Didn't Find In Africa" and his TV appearance to dispute the administration. Wilson's article asked the question: "Did the Bush administration manipulate intelligence about Saddam Hussein's weapons programs to justify an invasion?"

Patrick R. Sullivan

'...Valerie Plame, which was her maiden name and cover name at the CIA.'

Oh, brother!

SteveMG

TM:
Forget all this stuff, get to the important things.

Quick, check the index. By chance, my name there? Any others who post here?

SMG


Sue

Who do you think the retired state dept official is in this forgotten July 2005 story? Armitage?

Lawrence B. Willerson

topsecretk9

Apparently the early morning edition of that day's paper are now a Plame Collector's Classic, because they ran "clean". In fact, some of the "Six" were contacted after Novak's column ran. Calling attention to a published story that whacks a critic may be hardball, and it may not be done for the purest of motives, but it is not a crime to exhort reporters to read the newspaper.

I guess I am having reading comprehension problems, what does this para mean?

Sue

Willerson = Wilkerson

topsecretk9

Apparently the early morning edition of that day's paper are now a Plame Collector's Classic, because they ran "clean". In fact, some of the "Six" were contacted after Novak's column ran. Calling attention to a published story that whacks a critic may be hardball, and it may not be done for the purest of motives, but it is not a crime to exhort reporters to read the newspaper.

I guess I am having reading comprehension problems, what does this para mean?

Tom Maguire

Jerry's here, feigning patience with Fitzgerald.

LOL.

Interesting question about the retired official providing thoughts on the INR memo. And this is key:

The June 2003 memo had not gone higher than Grossman until Wilson's op-ed column for The New York Times headlined "What I Didn't Find In Africa" and his TV appearance to dispute the administration.

Do tell. That certainly squares with the distribution list for the June memo (and maybe that is the entire basis for that statement). But what was the basis for Armitage's leak to Woodward on June 13?

SteveMG

From Schweid:
He [Wilson] challenged the White House's claim that Iraq had purchased uranium yellowcake from Niger.

Good old AP. Getting its facts wrong from the very start.

My guess is an AP story today on this matter would include the same errors.

And yeah, that sounds like Wilkerson. For some reason, Col. Wilkerson thinks he and his friends at Foggy Bottom were elected to make foreign policy.

That's funny, I remember seeing Bush-Cheney's name but don't remember seeing his on the ballot when I voted.

SMG

topsecretk9

BTW...doesn't Valerie get in trouble for discussing a classified operation outside of CIA...was this whole scandal a trumped up diversion because she was every bit as active leaking to reporters (like so many have proposed)....so now I don't by that Val was just the best hostess/stepford quiet wife to WAPO reporters anymore.

Sue

Do tell. That certainly squares with the distribution list for the June memo (and maybe that is the entire basis for that statement). But what was the basis for Armitage's leak to Woodward on June 13?

This is what happens when you are spinning a story. You forget which cycle your spin is on.

windansea

Jerry's here, feigning patience with Fitzgerald

you get a star for bravery Jerry...now don't you find it kind of funny that people like Matthews, EmptyWheel, Hamster, Kos, Leopold, Waas etc etc have developed lockjaw suddenly?

PS...the Bay of Banderas where I live is full of dolphins year round :)

clarice

I said on a previous thread--figure out who I & C's sources are:probably Taft, Powell, Wilson Plame and some other reporters--and view this as THEIR version. If Armitage was a source, he's lying about not talking because Fitz ordered him not to.(Surely the book went to the publisher weeks ago.)

Call me stubborn: I still think that the redating of the memo was to cover someone's ass. Whose I am not sure of, but I wouldn't automatically rule out Powell and Armitage.

clarice

Oh yeah--and no matter how accurate the 1x2x6 story was or wasn't or who was the source, that was the Fitz investigative template.

As the WaPo concedes and we've long known it was Val and Joe and their big mouths telling everyone with the WH being the last folks in town to know. (Maybe they should go to more Georgetown parties, who knows. This place becomes more like the Court of the Sun King everyday. If you recall, numerous petty annoyances were occassioned the shortest departure from the Court. Almost daily the method to announce one's presence at the door was changed. Go home to supervise the pressing of the grapes and you could no longer be admitted to your mistress' chamber because you didn't have the secret door rap code.)

Patrick R. Sullivan

Well, the distribution list may have only gone as far as Grossman, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have shown it to Armitage. Or talked about it with him.

Remember that Pincus wrote about the former Ambassador on June 12, and Kristoff responded sarcastically to him on June 13th--the same day Armitage had a meeting with Woodward. Armitage might have read those pieces and started asking around about what anyone knew.

This release by the SSCI is more than a trifle embarrassing for Corn and Isikoff, isn't it? Such as Isikoff's claim on the Diane Rehm show that the forged documents were the source for the 16 words in the SOTU.

In addition to what Thomas Morrissey posted above, the report says than on February 27, 2003 the CIA responded to a letter from Carl Levin from January 29th, asking, 'what the U.S. IC knows about Saddam Hussein seeking significant quantities of uranium from Africa.'

The CIA told him that they don't believe that Niger actually sold Iraq uranium--the claim in the forged documents--but; 'nonetheless, we question, based on a second source, whether Baghdad may have been probing Niger for access to yellowcake in the 1999 time frame'.

That is a flat out contradiction of Isikoff's claim. Levin is clearly referencing the Bush SOTU speech, and the CIA says 'probing' for uranium.

Further irony; Corn and Isikoff say Valerie was heading the group that provided that information.

Complcat

Plame is a card game. So, when the Air Force Officer who flew around five Presidents died, alot of people wondered if this was Plame's father. She had alot of pull to get inside CIA, like Wilson, who's father was a diplomat in Spain(were the 'domestic' terrorists responded to Iraqi 'police' terrorists, who did the assassinations of the operations officers Plame knew in Iraq after the 'Vanity Fair' article where she admitted being a CIA operations officer, paramilitarily trained). Her status at CIA was later confirmed by her two pals from 'the farm,' Larry Johnson and Jim (sp) who is running for Congress. So, we have excellent confirmation who she was, until CIA denied she worked for the Directorate of Operations and sent Wilson on his trips(because that can't be the case).

So, it's OOPs Operations Officer Plame.

jerry

"now don't you find it kind of funny that people like Matthews, EmptyWheel, Hamster, Kos, Leopold, Waas etc etc have developed lockjaw suddenly?"

The only defense I'll try is that Fitzgerald doesn't leak, so most everything new that we've heard is supporting targets of the investigation.

That Bay of Banderas is beautiful, congratulations windandsea!

Verner

Hey, I'm not shelling out $25.95 for Corn's hog slop--but did skim a copy at Barnes and Noble. Missing from the index:

Alamoudi, Win Without War, Fenton Communications, etc.

So, Wilson's anti-war activity, which occurred long, long before he became involved with the Kerry campaign, was just an illusion I guess. Too unimportant for Corn to mention. But maybe not, I did not had time to sit down and thumb through a copy.

By the way, who thinks that Plame might have been forced to resign after flunking a polygraph over leaking classified intel to journalists.

verner

Had=have

topsecretk9

OOPlame wanted to get certain Iraqi resources silenced? Complcat?

topsecretk9

Complicat -500 things, tons?

Patton

So this entire scandal was cooked up by the anti-Iraq liberations folks in the mushy middle and the Anti-semetic folks at NBC.

Move ON!

complicated

Complicated. No, but confirming her identity was something she said she would never do; she'd 'rather chew off her right arm.' So, when she did, it would be seen as a request for action by the Iraq 'police' who did the work the next day. This followed through into Spain and the government pulled out of Iraq, as well as the Japanese when 'diplomats'(CIA) started to complain; the Japanese annonced they were pulling out the next day.

It is common for CIA operations officers to 'roll up' who they dealt with because its standard if your not an American. She wanted the leak of her idntity for this purpose and we're lucky she had to do this by herself; her preference would have been for anybody higher up, like the VP; which is why those people were assassinted. Her history is to leak(however), terrorists respond to this, and someone is blamed. This is a pattern she followed probably since Aimes(Aimes pattern was the same, but he killed mostly Russians 30-40, and was allowed to get away with it because they were). If you meant her and you did'nt have a badge(CIA), the answer was to run. She was a known problem before 9/11. No, I never talked to her.

Strange handle.

Rick Ballard

Verner,

I don't know about "forced" but I would wager that she has a career ender letter in her personnel file and that she was assigned only the most trivial of tasks after Fitz got rolling.

My question: Are there any 'playuhs' from the Plame fiasco still in positions of responsibility anywhere in government.

Powell - out.
Armitage - out.
Ford - out.
Grossman - out.
Comey - out.
Plame - out.
VIPers - out (those whom we know of anyway).

Fitzgerald is finished in government - he's a dead man walking.

Who else was involved and is still holding a job? Taft? Some of the DoJ clowns? None come to mind at the moment but there must be a few hangers on.

complicated

More Plame:

''It's a Kalashnikov. I've never had to use it except for a little target practice," she says........Sarah Chayes

http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/05/09/american_activist_finds_her_calling_in_afghan_hot_spot/

Jim Markowski said the same thing about Plame when he confirmed she was a CIA Operations Officer, paramilitarily trained at 'the farm'(So, did Larry C Johson, who also confirmed they all went there together).

Larry wrote a neat article at 'Truthout' with his other retired operations officer pals:

NO QUARTER: "You Tell It" Open Thread
Jim Markowski wrote a great essay here about "King George" -- it's real, it's the end of the ... Jim has served in the military, the FBI, and the CIA, ...noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/06/you_tell_it_ope.html - 67k - Cached - Similar pages

Patrick R. Sullivan

More irony, Corn says that Valerie flew to Jordan to discuss the captured aluminum tubes (which he wrongly thinks qualifies her as having served overseas covertly).

The Phase II SSCI report says that it was the CIA that fought successfully for the point of view that they were for use in Iraq's reconstituted nuclear program, not for rockets which State and Energy both argued for.

The CIA even challenged the IAEA Director General's March 7, 2003 presentation to the UN Security Council about the tubes.

Jane

Who else was involved and is still holding a job?

All the slobbering members of the press who were as instrumental as anyone else.

Syl

So, this is what should have been reported concerning facts known at the time (leaving out any mention of wilson's trip and its origins because it gets really complicated to write. LOL):

An administration aide said that two White House officials called six Washington journalists and mentioned the CIA affiliation of Wilson's wife as part of their pushback against Wilson. Whether these calls occurred before or after the publication of Novak's column identifying Wilson's wife as Valery Plame, a CIA operative, is not known at this time.

The former ambassador has accused Bush of claiming in the SOTU that Saddam had purchased uranium yellowcake from Niger. Wilson says that no sale ever took place. However, Bush never claimed a sale had actually occurred, only that Saddam was interested in such a deal from countries in Africa..

What is maddening, frightening, and ridiculous, is that the entire framework of the Fitzgerald investigation and the theories concocted by the anti-Bush Plamiacs were based on a couple of sentences from a Washington Post story. Cheney/Libby/Rove were investigated to death by Fitzgerald and found guilty in the court of public opinion due to a formulation extracted from those sentences which was, to say the least, misleading: 1x2x6.

There's a lesson here somewhere but I doubt the Left will learn it.

jwest

Patrick,

On the aluminum tubes, Larry Wilkerson, Powell’s chief of staff, admitted last month in a panel discussion with the Senate democrats that the final price Iraq agreed to pay per tube was $75. He brought this up in the context of the discussion Powell had with the CIA on the night prior to his U.N. appearance.

This number was redacted from the SSCI report, with only the initial $15 per tube cost reported. The lower cost was for first generation tubes made to the wider tolerances.

For anyone with common sense, the $75 figure is proof that the tubes were not intended for rocket motors, but were destined for a centrifuge program.

boris

the redating of the memo was to cover someone's ass. Whose I am not sure of, but I wouldn't automatically rule out Powell and Armitage

I'm ready to back this POV with more snarkpower than you can shake a stike at!

One step further ... the 1st memo was CYA for Grossman's guilty knowledge that he didn't want people to know he knew.

boris

- shake a stick - (sheesh)

boris

Complicated, transmission's breaking up there pal, try boosting the coherence amplifier.

topsecretk9

CompCat...Hmmm.


Hey i blogged at Seixon...got to hand it to TM - it's hard and time consuming and hard.

Specter

OT - Joe's book the "Politics of Truth" is now selling in the discounted section of Amazon for $6. Wow....nuff said.

topsecretk9

--So, when she did, it would be seen as a request for action by the Iraq 'police' who did the work the next day. --

5 bombs?

Specter

SMG,

I blogged about the APosaurus yesterday. They are still up to the same old tricks.

All,

The tubes were for centrifuge cascades - they were over-engineered for rocket motors. But - the fact is that Iraq already had Calutron Technology. That was the original technology for enriching uranium used in the Manhattan Project. Less efficient, but it still works. I believe that some was destroyed during GW1, but that doesn't mean the capability did not still exist.

Sue

I don't understand why democrats don't get the argument. Bush saw Iraq as a growing threat. One that needed to be confronted before they had the opportunity to become a threat. John McCain, their on again, off again hero, had a letter that was posted on his website for the longest time (I haven't checked to see if it is still accessible) that explained his reasoning behind supporting the war. He saw the sanctions falling apart. Other countries were doing exactly what the OFF scandal eventually determined they were doing. Everyone was tired of containing Saddam. Once that constraint fell apart, Saddam would have been right back up to his old tricks. And both reports, Blix and Kays, said exactly that. He was waiting on sanctions to lift in order to reconstitute his programs.

I am so tired of the left saying inspections were working. Inspections were only working because Saddam saw the entire military complex of the United States ready to deploy at a moment's notice. He did not voluntarily open his doors to inspectors. He was forced to do so by threat of invasion. He monkeyed with that threat and Bush had a choice. Prove he was serious with terrorists and the regimes that supported them, or back down and look weak and vulnerable again. A paper tiger, to use bin Laden's term.

If democrats (and some republicans) had stood with Bush, even after the WMDs weren't found (both parties are guilty of using the WMDs to support sanctions, if there were no WMDs why sanctions?) Iraq could have been different. Democrats immediately went into Bush Lied, Kids died and prayed the country forgot their own hand in getting us to that point.

In the days after 9/11, I believe the poll was conducted around the 13th but I could be off by a day or 2, the WaPo ran their poll data on who was behind the attacks on 9/11. The majority thought Iraq was. Bush had not mentioned Iraq by the date of the poll. My question to democrats is where did that idea come from? My answer to democrats is 8 years of Clinton telling us Iraq had WMDs and 8 years of Clinton telling us Iraq was a dangerous regime. But that is what we are supposed to forget.

There was an ABC reporter who did one of those indepth news magazine type reports right before or after the asprin factory bombing. The report had Osama morphing into Saddam. It's still out there on the internet, but I dont' remember where I saw it.

lurker

"OT - Joe's book the "Politics of Truth" is now selling in the discounted section of Amazon for $6. Wow....nuff said."

Heh, I wouldn't even pay six bucks for it. But on the other hand, why bother reading it?

jwest

Spector,

The information Wilkerson gave came as an aside in response to democrat Senators implying that the administration ignored DOE saying that the tubes were not suited for centrifuges.

Wilkerson tried to explain something the SSCI didn’t make clear (or mention at all), that different agencies were testing different generation tubes.

The original tubes, made to wide tolerances and purchased for $15 were ill-suited for any centrifuge use. As the Iraqi purchasing requests changed and the tolerances tightened, the SSCI referred to this as being something that “slightly” increased the price. As stated previously, the final cost was redacted.

Medusa and Hydra rockets, made by a number of companies throughout the world, are primarily used as air to ground weapons. The burn time on the motors is about 2 seconds, so distance is very limited in a ground to ground mode. But, as conventional weapons they were fully authorized to be purchased complete with warheads by Saddam for defensive purposes.

It is unfathomable how the SSCI report glosses over the fact that for Saddam to clandestinely purchase rocket motor tubes for $75 each, when he could easily and legally purchase finished rockets on the world market is an act of insanity – or incredible naivety on the part of the SSCI members.

Discovering who the actual author of that portion of the SSCI report would be interesting, along with who made the decision to redact the final purchase price of $75. The claim that the tubes were not for use in centrifuges would have been hard to swallow had this information been in the original report.

narciso

The latest Senate Report, (Phase 2) Isn't worth the paper, it's printed on. It relies
on Saddam and Tariq Ramadan's word, that there were no Iraqi contacts with Al Queda
or Zarquawi. It similarly vouches for the
Iraqi pre-1991 nuclear program head. as well
as Farouk Hijazi, the contact officer with
Bin Laden; it doesn't even reference bin
Ani, Saddam's man in Prague. It accepts the
idea that Zahawie, Saddam's fmr. envoy to the IAEA, was just talking commerce in Niger. Well you you get the picture.

lurker

March 2003 Document: Saddam Orders Iraq Central Bank to Give his Son 1 Billion Dollars (Translation)

2002 Document: Request for Precursor That Can Be Used To Make VX Nerve Gas (Translation)

Verner

Rick: Also, isn't Val's ole real boss Pavitt out? Then there's Grenier-out, Tenet-out.

But then we have:
Bush-in
Cheney-in
Rove-in

What's the old saying about, if you strike the king...

JWest: Great stuff. So Val screwed up again.

I forgot to look and see if Alan Foley was in the index. You think Corn will explain to us why Joe also told a lie about him?

Jeff

The deeply-informed "Jeff" has also pointed out that Genier's name is missing from an Aug 2004 affidavit by Fitzgerald (although Grenier may well have been covert in 2004).

Notwithstanding the fact that I've been reduced to scare quotes, the point is not that Grenier's name doesn't show up in the August 2004 affidavit, it's that Grenier the person and his interaction with Libby in June 2003 appear to be absent from the affidavit.

Also, the purported trashing of 1x2x6 is the headline - shockingly, backing up Isikoff's reporting from October 2003 - but the actual story doesn't at all match up with that. I more or less agree with where Isikoff ends up in the book (and note the crucial change in phrase from the October 2003 article about how much of the action took place before Novak's column and how much after).

richard mcenroe

Sue -- a slight point of disagreement: I no longer CARE why Democrats don't get the argument. James Lileks summed them up perfectly years ago. These are people who would rather lose a war than their committee chairmanships. End of story, and of their relevance.

JM Hanes

PatrickRS
Hope you saw my apology in the Metaphor thread, but just in case, it's here.

Syl

Jeff

but the actual story doesn't at all match up with that.

Yeah? Prove it.

Sue

These are people who would rather lose a war than their committee chairmanships. End of story, and of their relevance.

That's the point Richard. Their relevance, if they win back the house and/or the senate, is not the end of the story.

clarice

You have to hand it to Corn, though, he got the media and Fitz to believe his inherently preposterous tale of a blonde Emma Peel tied to the railroad tracks by lying war mongers to punish her husband for telling truth to power. LOL


Jeff

Syl - The point is that what Isikoff actually does does not amount to a trashing of the 1x2x6 story, as he ends up concluding himself. Look at the text. It's doubtful 6 reporters were called before Novak's column, but where in October 2003 Isikoff had a government official saying most if not all of the White House acts concerning Plame took place after Novak's column, now all he says is that much but not all the action took place after Novak's column.

SteveMG

he got the media and Fitz to believe his inherently preposterous tale of a blonde Emma Peel tied to the railroad tracks by lying war mongers to punish her husband for telling truth to power. LOL

Very, very good.

Good because true, too.

I'll steal that when I post at a lefty site. Boy, they'll love it as much as I did, I'm sure.

SMG

windansea

hmmmm..the fund drive for the HamsterWheel Plame novel seems to be stalling

Can Marcy & Jeff keep hope alive?

azredneck

[email protected]:30--Taft returned to private practice at end of Bush's 1st term, so he's out too.

clarice

Please don't steal that one. It's a preview of the article I'm writing for next week's WS>

Jeff

Tom

For what it's worth, I'm having trouble finding any sign of the purported original edition of the September 28, 2003 Post story without the bit about "before Novak's column" or whatever.

Sue

hmmmm..the fund drive for the HamsterWheel Plame novel seems to be stalling

I'm sure it is just the distraction of The Path to 9/11. Once that is over, the fund drive will pick up again.

SteveMG

Clarice:
Please don't steal that one.

Okay, I'll substitute Snidely Whiplash, Dudley Doright and Nell.

This will be for twentysomething dopeheaded lefties, remember. Gotta' use cartoon characters to get through to them sometimes.

SMG

Rick Ballard

Thanks AZ,

Powell - out.
Armitage - out.
Grossman - out.
Grenier - out.
Tenet - out.
Pavitt - out
Ford - out.
Plame - out.
VIPers - out (those whom we know of anyway).
Comey - out.
Taft - out.
Eckenrode - out.
Fitzgerald is finished in government - he's a dead man walking.

It seems as if there should be more from State - or the CIA.

JM Hanes

Hello Kenny!

It's interesting, fascinating even, to look back at contemporaneous articles in light of what we've learned since then, isn't it? I find paragraphs like this one really striking:

The memo has become a key piece of evidence in the CIA leak investigation because it could have been the way someone in the White House learned — and then leaked — the information that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and played a role in sending him on the mission.
The memo was key to the investigation because of possible implications for the White House, and not because it was, in fact, compelling evidence -- especially with the Armitage confession in hand -- that State was Plamegate Central.

BTW, did anyone else notice Corn's remarks in the video of Matthews asking if "folks like Libby" could have been using Armitage? [ROTFLMAO] In referring to the memo, Corn says that Grossman:

...wrote the memo, sent it to Scooter, or read it to him over the phone, and a copy also went to Dick Armitage.
In other words, Corn is only speculating that Libby got the memo, so to speak, at all. He's also implying that Armitage got a copy of the original memo.

As an aside, I thought Isikoff's terminology was interesting when he described Armitage as "a member of the administration's moderate cell." Speaking of terminology though, TM's reminder about Andrea Mitchell's choice of words above is particularly timely:

...on July 8, she told the world that CIA sources told her that Wilson was sent by low-level CIA "operatives" (a word later used by Novak, to great controversy).

And not just controversy. It's the last best hope in the putative case against the White House, as emptywheel attests:

All the reporting thus far explains that Armitage didn't know that Plame was covert. Yet Novak referred to her as an operative, a term he uses to describe covert intelligence officials. So that means the real culprit--the one who told Novak about Plame's status--remains out there, still unrevealed.
The fact that "operative," as in "political operative," is common parlance for Novak and the entire media establishment doesn't eve register as a speed bump.

clarice

Stevemg, that's exactly right--you have to use cartoonish analogies to get thru to them, which is why Corn's narrative worked. You don't suppose the folks who credit that peabrain propagandist would actually take the time to read the SSCI, Butler or Robb-Silberman reports do you? Like man, that is soo hard!

And the lesson, I think (well, one of them) is that propaganda is a very powerful weapon. It almost brought down the Administration, and it is dangerous to simply sit back as the President dis and assume (as it now eventually has) that the truth will out. It may, but in the meantime, it takes a terrible toll.And when you respond to such lamebrain crap you have to do it in the kind of terms these folks understand.

______

As to the book, we know it has limited (one sided) sources; it was written apparently rather quickly and by two men whose reputation is not exactly for probity. Where there is great detail which apparently is confirmed or confirmable by the participants--i.e. Armitage's call to Taft --maybe we can rely on it. When the details are vague, I wouldn't put two cents on it.

Sara (Squiggler)

This is a question I've wondered about ... why does everyone assume that the first Powell or Armitage knew about the Wilson trip was from the INR memo? They may not have known the connection with his wife at CIA by detail, but why do we not think they knew about Wilson's trip from the actual time of the trip. Afterall, Wilson himself says he talked to the current Niger Ambassador at the time as a courtesy. Wouldn't there be some kind of State Dept. okay for an ex-Ambassador to have a sit down with a current Ambassador in the foreign country and on CIA business? Seems something like that from the Niger Ambassador's side would have to be approved at a fairly high level. So, State may have had little to do with Wilson's trip from his side, but they certainly would have been involved and had a vested interest from their current Niger Ambassador's diplomatic position. And didn't someome travel with Wilson?

clarice

I don't make that assumption at all. I think it's dangerous to. Lask night someone cited an interview from a then INR employee who has left. He says he informed Armitage and Powell almost daily of the INR's activities.

boris

why does everyone assume that the first Powell or Armitage knew about the Wilson trip was from the INR memo?

Because that was Grossman's intent in having the memo written then duplicated and spread far and wide.

So that people wondering where the info came from --- LOOK HERE MEMO PEOPLE !!! BEHESTED BY LIBBY AND CHENEY EVERYBODY !!!!

clarice

That's my suspicion. too.

PeterUK

The problem is Clarice,the left consists of people who frame the narrative for a living,this is something the right has to catch up with.The pernicious influence of the Frankfurt School has seeped through Academia like somethibg unspeakable through a diaper.

Sara (Squiggler)

What I find particularly confusing is that Wilson's whole schtick is that HE said Saddam didn't get any yellowcake from Niger and I guess by extension, he has expanded that to Saddam never even attempting to get uranium. Wilson blames the OVP for ignoring him and going with the opposite story. And yet, the data says that the CIA was pushing the nuke story with the tubes, etc. (and probably because they knew about AQ Khan, although this is never said) and that IAEA and State were the ones agreeing with Joe and not CIA. Why does Joe place the blame on OVP instead of on CIA?

From start to finish, it seems the CIA was laughing at ol' Joe or humoring him somehow while at the same ignoring him. Sounds to me like Val was playing JW big time, while the CIA continued to run their own investigations and make far different reports up the line.

JM Hanes

Sara:

I think the pool of potential leakers at State was always far larger than it was at the White House. That's the basis of some major questions about the real focus of Fitzgerald's investigation. His only interest in the evidence at State appears to have been its utility in nailing down some speculated crossover to the WH.

clarice

Boris, is that one of the oldest bureaucratic tricks in the book? Who got the memo and when? LOL

JM Hanes

Sara:

"Why does Joe place the blame on OVP instead of on CIA?"

Political ambitions explain that initial decision -- the "politics" of truth being the operative concept. In the Armitage interview, it's interesting that he asserts Wilson's conclusions tracked with the conclusions at State, when in fact, as Capt. Ed points out, they were explicitly cited as a cause of C.I.A. concern.

Rocco

In referring to the memo, Corn says that Grossman:

...wrote the memo, sent it to Scooter, or read it to him over the phone, and a copy also went to Dick Armitage.

I think Thielmann wrote the memo

And you know what was expressed in those encounters?

Our main contribution was a written one, and we know what memorandum went from Carl Ford to the secretary of state on these issues, because we were the drafting office for most of these assessments.

We were I think fairly consistent about several points. One is that while we were looking very hard for indications that the Iraqi nuclear weapons program that had been pretty effectively dismantled in the course of the 1990s was being rejuvenated, we did not find any convincing evidence that that was the case. ...


MayBee

Sara:

"Why does Joe place the blame on OVP instead of on CIA?"

***
Good answer to that, JMH (but of course). I think too, that the "framers" were starting to frame the differences between reality- what we found in Iraq- and what the [Clinton and] Bush administrations had said we'd find as being the result of political pressure from Cheney on the intelligence services.

So yeah, they used the Niger story to push forward the idea that from here on out, anything that was wrong, was wrong because Cheney made us say it.

It was a gift to reporters and Congress people looking to put the blame on Cheney for what they'd believed themselves.

Sara (Squiggler)

Yes, well that's my point ... Wilson, Powell, Armitage, Grossman, State Dept., et al against Val and the WMD group at CIA. It sounds like kiddie time, Daddy (OVP) likes me better, no he doesn't, he likes me better, no, yes, no, yes. As far as I'm concerned, as long as there was any question about what Saddam was doing, the President was right to err on the side of being ready to deal with the worst case scenario and the worst case scenario is the one being told by the CIA and all the world's intelligence services.

Rocco

That seems to be the case.

There are two interesting things about it. One is, at that point, the information was still highly classified. The mention of uranium from Niger was, as I understand it, in December, a top-secret matter, and I just wonder who had the authority, at that time, to declassify it. Certainly, the president would, when he did a month later. But who at that time took responsibility for it?

That was one of the jobs of the Intelligence Bureau, to make sure that no very sensitive intelligence information was used by the policy side, either accidentally or deliberately. That's one of the reasons that we were clearing language when public statements were made.

Yet, he doesn't know who wrote this Fact Sheet

JM Hanes

Rocco:

Or contributed to the memo as penned by Ford? In any case, I'd say that a regular crowd of people at State were aware of either the memo or its contents, and that we have no reason to believe the White House was on the "distribution" list. In which case, State only looks more thoroughly compromised if we assume the OVP behested it.

Sue

Wilson has been careful to say he didn't read the State's fact sheet that asked Saddam about Niger uranium that was released in December 2002. Why? Why would he make the claim he didn't see the State's fact sheet in response to the documents Saddam turned over? I saw it and I didn't even go to Niger. The whole world was watching the response of Saddam and our response to his response. But Wilson missed it. Or did he?

Sue

VINCE CANNISTRARO: Osama believes in "the enemy of my enemy is my friend and is someone I should cooperate with." That's certainly the current case with Iraq.

Someone at the http://corner.nationalreview.com/>Corner has a transcript of the news show I was talking about earlier today (though I don't remember which thread I was on). Funny how their memories fail them. Must be old age.

Sara (Squiggler)

This is going to make me swear in a moment ... who the heck was saying no uranium from Niger then ... State:

Nuclear Weapons

* The Declaration ignores efforts to procure uranium from Niger.*
* Why is the Iraqi regime hiding their uranium procurement?

So not State.

CIA? No they are going toe to toe with IAEA and State over 2 streams of info.

OVP/WH ... well, they aren't quite so definitive and hold it to attempt to acquire in Africa.

So what the heck is the dem's beef? I don't get it.

Sara (Squiggler)

Check your gag reflex at the door:

Rockefeller Says World Would Be Better With Saddam

Sue

Gag reflex? I laughed so hard my sides ached. Democrats are stoopid (okay, not all democrats, my mother is one, and she is far from stupid, she is just wrong ::grin::) when it comes to what they think the country wants to hear. They don't want to hear that Saddam should be back in power.

JM Hanes

Rockefeller unhinged.

Sara (Squiggler)

AJ was quoting some politician today who thinks Iraq has become the recruiting and training ground for al Qaeda so we should leave Iraq immediately and focus on al Qaeda. Do these people even hear themselves when they say such dumb things?

clarice

Well, the good thing is that he's still alive. Add return Saddam to power to the thin Dem platform and see how it flies.

sbw

This thread is for interesting odds and ends:

From AP:
"N.Y. Woman Wins $1 Million Lottery Again
"NEW YORK (AP) - A woman who won $1 million from a state lottery game four years ago has improbably hit the jackpot again. Valerie Wilson, who works at a Long Island deli, said she won another $1 million on a lottery scratch-off game last month."

Witty asides:
-- She's everywhere!
-- This proves she's covert.
-- Brewster-Jennings Deli

lurker

"Check your gag reflex at the door:

Rockefeller Says World Would Be Better With Saddam"

Amazing!

Ya think that if and when the dems take control of the WH, House, and Senate, they would reverse all of their currents comments?

"Oh, we didn't mean it this way and you misread us, we meant to say that there were connections between Saddam and AQ!"

"Oh, you guys didn't hear us correctly, we really need to stay in Iraq and help them build their own country."

blah, blah, blah.

lurker

That's one of the things I like about Bush.

He is consistent and stands behind his own words. When he is wrong, he will admit to us and explain why.

clarice

Heh--they looked so good in the mid-August generic polls. LOL.

They are imploding faster than a month old balloon. (Santorum is within the margin of error with Casey BTW).

CNJ

But http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1532570,00.html>this TIME article says GOP is in trouble

President Bush's once-solid relationship with Southern women is on the rocks.

"I think history will show him to be the worst president since Ulysses S. Grant," said Barbara Knight, a self-described Republican since birth and the mother of three. "He's been an embarrassment."

sbw

Why would one ever read Time?

Barney Frank

"Check your gag reflex at the door:

Rockefeller Says World Would Be Better With Saddam"

Amazing!

Ya think that if and when the dems take control of the WH, House, and Senate, they would reverse all of their currents comments?

Actually I suspect when the Dems have control of the government again, we will declare war on the democratically elected goverment of Iraq, roll up the Euphrates valley again, liberate Saddam from his unjust imprisonment and reinstall him on his throne. Then excute Bush for war crimes.....


If only that sounded far fetched.

CNJ

Why would one ever read Time?


Reconnaissance ?

Sue

"I think history will show him to be the worst president since Ulysses S. Grant," said Barbara Knight, a self-described Republican since birth and the mother of three. "He's been an embarrassment."

I admit to laughing when I read the explanation for why that remark was extra terrible. You know how us southerners are still fighting the war between the states and all.

maryrose

Repubs hang on to House and Senate by a thread-Your Wednesday morning headline after the election-brought to you 2 months early.

Rick Ballard

sbw,

The article is extraordinarily interesting in what it fails to mention, to wit, there are precisely nine House seats throughout the old and border south that are considered to be actual contests, NC-11, VA-2, FL-22, TX-17, TX-22, GA-08, GA-12, KY-04 and LA-03. Four of them are held by Democrats and three of the Republican seats are very close to being safe. There are no Senate seats in play in the south and only one governor's seat - FL.

Any publication which relies on AP-Ipsos polling is simply acting as a megaphone for the Democratic party.

sbw

CNJ: Reconnaissance ?

More sensible to sip coffee in a local diner and listen to the chatter.

Tom Maguire

Notwithstanding the fact that I've been reduced to scare quotes...

Sorry - I'm never sure what the etiquette is when all I know is the first, possibly pseudonymous name.

the point is not that Grenier's name doesn't show up in the August 2004 affidavit, it's that Grenier the person and his interaction with Libby in June 2003 appear to be absent from the affidavit.

I should fix that - I knew there was a Grenier puzzle, but the details eluded me.

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Wilson/Plame