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September 01, 2006

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Patrick R. Sullivan

Let's follow the chronology of mid June 2003. On June 12th Pincus writes the article that displays a contradiction of Kristoff's May column. Pincus knows Cheney didn't send Wilson to Africa.

The very next day two things happen. Kristoff responds with his 'behest of' column, and Woodward meets with Armitage. Kristoff is clearly challenging Pincus's claim with:

'...now an administration official tells The Washington Post that Mr. Cheney's office first learned of its role in the episode by reading that column of mine. Hmm. I have an offer for Mr. Cheney: I'll tell you everything I know about your activities, if you'll tell me all you know.

'To help out Ms. Rice and Mr. Cheney, let me offer some more detail about the uranium saga. Piecing the story together from two people directly involved and three others who were briefed on it...'

Note well that 'two people directly involved'. Kristoff has checked with Joe and Val and been assured Pincus is wrong; it WAS at Cheney's behest.

Then on the next day, Wilson gives his EPIC speech, and he changes his story ever so slightly to having been sent, not by the CIA but by 'the government'.

But, unbeknownst to Wilson, Woodward found out the truth from Armitage the day before. And, I can't believe he wouldn't set Pincus straight in this dispute. So, it looks like Pincus is lying about not remembering Woodward telling him about Val.

jerry

"The WSJ article calls for Libby to be freed from his misery" - imagine my surprise, the WSJ is nothing if not predictable. Yeah, let's pardon him before this hyper-emotional WH propaganda bubble bursts and we're deep into the election season. Pump and dump Libby quick!

Tom Maguire

Man, I don't even read Democratic Underground TM.

Jerry, we're going to get you to to speed! (or on it...)

topsecretk9

Patrick R. Sullivan

EXACTLY.

It's my beleif that this is why Wilson paniked and penned it in his name (op-ed) -- for a number of reasons, 1- being Wilson heard they was an memo that laid Val role and 2- and that "2nd" person knowledgable (who had a role in sending someone) was pretty easy for everyone to figure out and that put that 2nd person in hot water.

Sue

Larry Wilkerson knew Valerie and knew Valerie was CIA. Before the memo. I read it last night.

Sue

I think the whole thing came out of State. They were upset with the CIA's intelligence reporting. They didn't agree with it. Then, Wilson starts popping up as an unnamed envoy and State wants to know about him. State started this. And Larry Wilkerson knew who Valerie Plame was.

topsecretk9

--Larry Wilkerson knew Valerie and knew Valerie was CIA. Before the memo. I read it last night.--

Where?

LARWYN

Armitage = Dove on Iraq is questioned by Tigerhawk who has letter and other info cited that he was in tight with Wolfowitz and the neo-cons on Iraq.

Peter UK
Big IRAQ story on Nora's Hardball and CNN'S Day-room was report on all the deaths in Iraq in JULY!!
All in a report that Nora introduced with "released by the Admin on a Friday before a holiday to hide from American Public"
No mention of August numbers.

And to be of some use, here's whatelse I've gathered from cable news nets this evening:

Olberman, a Philosophy PhD (Logic)
negates the logic of the WaPo article. He doesn't actually use a diagram but rambles off letters, a, b, c and then has Wilson/Plame female lawyer to back him up.

Earlier on Nora's Hardball, she ran Dr. Olberman's rant on "Mr. Rumsfeld" (they never call his Sec. - that's for Maddie and the wash-ups from Clinton & Carter admins) Terry Jeffrey, Human Events went off on Nora....but she had ****RONNIE REAGAN**** to back her up. When Terry began to answer, Nora "gotta go....voters will decide in November"
WOOOOOOO, I am scared aren't you?

Even earlier on Tucker, Peter Beinart "...liberals less supportive of exercise of American power........when DEMOCRATS take power we ***MAY SEE***them less afraid to use American power"

All Beinart needed was a Wheel of Fortune behind him - shilling:
Hey America, Spin the Wheel of Democrat Foreign Policy and National Security and see what you
MAY SEE!

Finally, Tigerhawk also just went to Tradespots or one of those sites, he has the chart up on Repub's Hold. Line starts up with UK plot and accelerates with the NSA opinion.

Beinart can take his wheel have Nora sit on it. Wonder if they have Chris's meds right yet.

jerry

TM, I'm trying, 'Really Hard' (flash to Pulp Fiction, Samuel L. Jackson) to control... my biases (yes, I know, go ahead and laugh)... there was a time I read DU, just to see the way out stuff left wing people are thinking (sort of like indulging in Wayne Madsen, or the tabloids, or WhatReallyHappened), I even tried reading Powerline, it was boring. I know the really scary stuff when I see it, and I've been good at staying clean... so, no way man, sorry.

Sue

Wilkerson was known as the person who said what his boss wouldn't say. And State hated the OVP.

MayBee

Have any of the Jason Leopold bashers (say at EW) noted that the Wilson DU post was by Mr. Truthout?

Is it not obvious that hero Wilson is in deep with the Truthout goats?

MayBee

I have a dream.
It is but a simple one.
That citizens, journalists, and politicians will henceforth cease calling for Special Investigators to get to the "bottom" of anything.

Charlie (Colorado)

On Fox, democrat operative Bob Beckel was just asked if in light of the WAPO editorial he was ready to admit the Plame affair was over. With a very red face he quietly replied: "yes".

Beckel, somewhat to my surprise from watching him during Clinton, appears to hve some self-respect: unlike a lot of his colleagues, he won't lie straight-faced.

topsecretk9

Jane, you aren't alone....

Bob Beckel Shocks The World

Wow! Bob Beckel, a hard-core liberal Democrat who has worked in the party's interest for years, from RFK to Jimmy Carter and beyond, may just have ended his career during an interview on Fox News Channel. After being read today's Washington Post editorial that stated the Plame Affair was not what it seemed and the media shouldn't have listened to Joe Wilson, Beckel was asked if the whole story was overblown by Democrats and Joe Wilson is the one that outed her and is the one to blame. His answer: yes. He didn't hem or haw, he didn't qualify. He said yes, and nothing more. David Asman seemed as shocked as I am. ***Here's the video.***

Can't wait for Larry and Hamsher to declare Beckel a Bush Licking Lap Dog!

larwyn

Forgot the best:

Mark Steyn on CSPAN
..everyone thinks of the CIA as
James Bond,
License to Kill,
it's
"License to Kill Time"

.....bunch of bureaucrats
sitting.....downloading emails...

Hoping CSPAN will rebroadcast
again - only caught the end.

topsecretk9

CO Chuck beat me to it!

PeterUK

Larwyn,
"Big IRAQ story on Nora's Hardball and CNN'S Day-room was report on all the deaths in Iraq in JULY!!"

Somebody should email the scum and spam their advertisers.

Jane

Beckel has impressed me on more than one occasion because he often appears honest. He was sort of outraged by the Lamont win, and openly supports Lieberman (it seems that most "democrats" as opposed to "progressives do). He's sort of a genuine partisen not a moonbat. We need more of those in left wing politics.

jerry

I like Jason Leopold, I think the jury's out re: the Rove story. As I described to TM, I avoid even the "near occurance" of reading DU.

Sue

Bob Beckel answered one of my emails this year when I criticized what he said on H&C. He was very funny about it. We had a back and forth for a couple of days and he was very nice. Didn't ever agree with me, but he remained a gentleman. ::grin::

Top,

I'm looking. Trying to retrace my steps from last night.

Thomas Morrissey

Jane,

He's sort of a genuine partisen not a moonbat. We need more of those in left wing politics.

I hope he survives,Moonabat apostates have a very short shelf life.

Slighty longer than Muslim apostates,but not by much.

Patrick R. Sullivan

Walter Pincus on June 22, 2003 (after Woodward says he told Pincus about Valerie) repeated his claim from June 12:

'...senior U.S. officials said, the CIA 10 months earlier sent a former senior American diplomat to visit Niger who reported that country's officials said they had not made any agreement to aid the sale of uranium to Iraq and indicated documents alleging that were forged. Details of that CIA Niger inquiry were not shared with the White House...'

He sounds pretty confident he's right and Kristoff is wrong.

dick

Through all of this it is David Corn and Nick Kristof I want to see hanged out to dry. The lies and half-truths they passed out about the administration during time of war and the complete misconstruing of fact that they wrote up which took a lot of the attention away from the real work of government needs to be paid for and they are the ones I would love to see pay the price. I would also add Bob Herbert and Frank Rich but those two are not smart enough to blame for the whole thing while Kristof and Corn are.

MayBee

I trying to figure how Armitage was so casual about talking by name a person that was supposedly Anonymous ...and if Woodward proposed the name "Joe Wilson" to Army...wasn't Army at that point not in a position to acknowledge he knew the name of an anonymous newspaper source? He should have only --at that point -- been able to speak about the Niger trip in general terms?

pretty sure I am not making my point well

No, I think you made your point well.

According to Vanity Fair, Pincus was able to track down Wilson as the anonymous source by calling around. So there were people that knew who he was that were willing to name him. So...Pincus probably gave the name to Woodward, right?

It seems clear to me that people at State knew about the Wilsons- he had been calling *them* trying *them* to tell the story, remember? And Valerie was transitioning over to State. So I think Armitage would have been in the perfect position to know who had been saying what about the Wilsons around the water cooler.

Then we assume Woodward came back from that meeting and told Pincus what Armitage had told him about Pincus's source. Pincus has said both that he never heard that, and that when first told about the wife he didn't believe it (I think because a CIA source had denied it).

About Wilson finally writing in his own name. I think his prior articles had created a buzz, and Wilson couldn't bear to not bathe himself in the spotlight.

topsecretk9

The missingWIlson OP-ED found.

jerry

maybee, I just read EW's blog... you're up to something sneaky there.

clarice

What Pincus is chopped liver or something? He lied thru his teeth, didn't correct the story for 2 1/2 years when it is obvious the paper assigned Milbank to hold a gun to his head. And even then he lied about the most important part and the paper, undoubtedly fed up with his nonsense, corrected it itself.

MayBee

Why do you say that?
I post by the same name at both blogs and have never accused you of trolling. Neither has our host. If there is anything sneaky going on over there, it isn't from me.

topsecretk9

MayBee

But I think it is odd that Armitage is speaking specifically about "Wilson" if he was just gossiping - at that point -WIlson was publicly "anonymous" - so when Woodward says to Army "So about this Joe Wilson" -- Wilson is "anonymous" - Army to Woodward would/should at that point - said WHO?, and then Woodward says "Joe Wilson, the anonymous "envoy" in yesterdays paper"

In a way, it is like Army is confirming FOR Woodward the anonymous source. He is the Dep Sec of State - HE DOES know to what and how he is supposed to talk about subjects in general. That is more than gossip.

It's a timing thing I am having a problem with - AND remember, andrea Mitchell said everyone that cover the Intel community was desperately trying to find out who the anon envoy was.

But maybe it isn't weird that Reporters go around asking about their anonymous sources iusing their real name and Officials automatically assume/confirm in gossip.

topsecretk9

I should add...if everyone automatically knows who anon sources are and reporters refer to anon sources early on by name, then I don't get the point of being anonymous.

jerry

Hey maybee, I'm no troll... I'm responsive, sensitive, mostly rational and eager to apologise... I'm only using two handles (kim/jerry) out of deference to my senior here on JOM, kim... who is greatly missed my me BTW. I also wasn't accusing you of trolling, I was perhaps being stimulating... suggesting a virtuous complexity of meaning and intent in your postings (?). :-)

clarice

Ts--maybe it's so that the reporters can continue to lie about the story and maybe it's so a prosecutor can persuade a judge to sit on the facts of the case so a man who never should have been indicted or even questioned is hard put to mount a defense,
(Don't mind me, I'm still furious.)

MayBee

Well, I think it is clear, even from this new book "Hubris" that reporters don't mind discussing *other* reporter's anonymous sources. So I don't think Woodward minded talking to Armitage about Wilson by name, and Woodward didn't unmask Pincus's source in print, so I don't really see a problem there.

And surely Armitage had no interest in keeping Wilson's anonymity for him. Wilson wasn't *his* boy.
I mostly think the interesting thing this shows is that Armitage knew all about Wilson well before Wilson came out. They were gossiping about him at state-- and it wasn't flattering gossip.
And of course that Wilson's name wasn't that hard to discover. He is an attention-seeker after all.

topsecretk9

Why does the real Kim not post here anymore?

_________________________

verner

May Bee, you were very funny at EW, but I think it went right over their heads. Remember, you're dealing with a crowd that is so off their meds that they think the WaPo is in Rove's pocket.

By the way though, it is rather funny that Joe's lawyers haven't put a muzzle on him, and still allow him to associate with the "secret sealed indictment that will be released in 24 business hours" crowd (aka the "diebold stole the election in ohio" crowd, and the "Bush planted explosives in the Twin Towers" crowd.)

Then we hear that the civil suit is likely on hold until after the midterms. Guess they have to think up something to keep the nutters juiced up and the pennies pouring in. It's not just political. There are quite a few folks who have made a very good living off the Plame industry.

topsecretk9

MayB's

Yeah, see your point. OK.

Sara (Squiggler)

Walter Pincus on June 22, 2003 (after Woodward says he told Pincus about Valerie) repeated his claim from June 12:

'...senior U.S. officials said, the CIA 10 months earlier sent a former senior American diplomat to visit Niger who reported that country's officials said they had not made any agreement to aid the sale of uranium to Iraq and indicated documents alleging that were forged. Details of that CIA Niger inquiry were not shared with the White House...'

He sounds pretty confident he's right and Kristoff is wrong.

The operative words are "not made any agreement to aid the sale of uranium to Iraq" but those words are most likely positively true. They made their deals with AQ Khan who then made his deals with Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya, Pakistan, et al.

topsecretk9

--and still allow him to associate with the "secret sealed indictment that will be released in 24 business hours" crowd --

Get out of my head. But then I thought way last month when he went on Olberman.

--Then we hear that the civil suit is likely on hold until after the midterms. --

They have 90 days, they filed in July...they're waiting?

jerry

Meds... I don't need no freakin' meds!!!

clarice feldman

Maybe they're still debating whether to reveal their addresses and blow their cover.

(Maybe the lack of an address is keeping the reporters from mobbing them. And maybe the reporters are too busy mobbing Armitage and Powell.)

PeterUK

Clarice,
Is what the MSM doing any different from a car salesman turning back the mileage on a used car?

MayBee

I also wasn't accusing you of trolling, I was perhaps being stimulating
Jerry, I'm talking about the day you said you were sorry about the trolls EW had described as "We've not gotten a rent-a-troll thus far in this thread, but just about every thread where I posit this--that Armitage's "revelation" just proves we're still missing the culprit--we get a GoP rent-a-troll to try to refute basic grammar. "

To which you replied " Sorry about the trolls EW, have noticed them."

--
I was disappointed enough to see EW trying to cocoon herself so much. Especially since she had gotten some stuff wrong in her post.
But yeah, to see you jump right in with the troll accusations....
At least you and Jeff (and EW if she chose to) can come here and not be accused by the host of being rent-a-trolls.

JM Hanes

Tellement bientôt! Hélas! I fear not even I can clean you up, cher.

clarice

If the NYT were the NYT and Cogarette Company, PUK, Gladys Kessler would have okayed a multi billion dollar judgement against it for misleading its readers.

clarice

***cIgarette*******

Verner

JM Hanes, Did you know that the french word for shower is "douche." Somehow, The french word is tellement a propos when referring to the former ambassador to Gabon, n'est pas?

jerry

Hmmm, I think you argue now that trolls do not exist, at least for EW, maybee? But trolls are a generally observed species lurking in the blogosphere, and even cherished in an uncomfortable way? I see some small virtue in internet trolls - like the trolls in a Harry Potter movie... that's drama!

I'd say that EW does, in reality, have some trolls, that it isn't some sad imagining as you suggest. Trolls are malevolent shape shifters and to speak directly to them is to confront all that is false and evil on the web. Ok, now I'm being dramatic.

MayBee

jerry-
Who do you think she was referring to? Because most of the people that bother to refute her assertions there post here.

You said apologizing is easy, I suggest you are not finding it so easy.

MayBee

Sorry everyone, to hijack the thread.

jerry

Maybee, I'm exhausted by my ridiculous rhetoric... I'll check back tomorrow.

clarice

Roger simon has some interesting commentary. I don't think I agree with it but thought I'd share it:
"But what interests me is how the Plame Affair fits into the whole framework. It may be opera bouffe, but it is far from unrelated to the way the press has conducted itself in recent years. Is it so different from Pallywood and the Mohammed Al Doura case, the Reuters photographs, the Jenin "massacre" and so forth - all lies swallowed whole by a gullible Western media? At first glance they would seem far apart, but in this small world one concept draws them all together - narrative. The truth is less important than the weltanschauung of the publication. But we knew that, didn't we?

So next step - why this phenomenon? Why the acceptance of this narrative whose result is so negative to world history and seems in continuous aid of the destruction of the Enlightenment itself? Is it just Bush Derangement Syndrome? Well, I think that's a large part of it. But the term (BDS) is too narrow to encompass the phenomenon. A variety of psychological forces are in the mix, but most notable to me is a sense of deprivation. 9/11 stripped the left of its self-perceived idealism that was the mainstay of its "personality." Forces (like Bush) that lefties once dismissed as reactionary were taking the lead in the preservation of the West instead of supporting dictators as they once did. Furthermore, in the old days the left could take concilation that the enemy (communism) had at least a theoretical rationale - economic fairness to all. The new enemy was more troublesome - on the one hand poor (only seemingly, of course, considering the oil rich) and on the other hand medieval, anti-woman, anti-gay and anti-modern... essentially anti-liberal. What to do.... what to do?

In the beginning the left went along with Bush, but the minute things began to lag in Iraq, they deserted him in a flash. At first glance the reason was political but on a deeper (and I believe more important) level the reason was psychological. The left was in a rush to reclaim its lost idealism (the "it's about oil" nonsense was but an obvious example of this), to preserve its disintegrating sense of self. Of course the big loser in all this is the truth. Sure Bush made a bunch of mistakes (who wouldn't?) but it should be obvious to anyone that we are at the earliest stages of a very long war. Nevertheless, a culture of media corruption set in almost instantly that ended up creating absurdities like the Plame Affair. We are lucky this one got unmasked. We will also be lucky if the conclusions drawn in the WaPo editorial stick for that publication at least. We shall see."

I'm old enough to remember "Front Page"..While it's a comedy ,I thought it a pretty accurate pic of newspaper reporting. I think somehow in the '60's as we were taken in by the big papers and alphabet channels we got snookered into thinking the profession was not what, in our more reasonable moments ,we knew it was. That somehow honorable, dispassionate reporters carefully checked facts and reported them straight. And pundits! Woo hoo..they were so much more in the know than the rest of us we hung on their every word.

Actually, on a board like this, you can see that intelligence is distributed widely and when we get together, using our brains, experience and specialized knowledge and using a real adversary system where every idea and factual represenation must be defended, we do a hell of a lot better job on anything we concentrate on than journalists do.

So they can take Abu Ghraib, the TANG memos, the Qana massacre and Wilson and Plame, bronze these "big" stories and look at them hanging on the wall when they acknowledge that we have their number, we can beat them every day , and they lost the last shreds of credibility they've been hanging on to.

Sue

I'm beginning to think I dreamed Wilkerson knew Plame before the memo. I have not been able to find it again so maybe I misread something.

ordi

Earlier AJ wrote,

Anyone else bothered by the fact all these lefty sites apparently have been sppon fed biased and false information by The Wilsons? Joe is truly a class A idiot.

I don't think Joe is an idiot and certainly not Class A. In Joe's post at DU he is begging for the Useful Idiots to hang tough (we are bouyed) and contribute until it hurts (wilsonsupport.org)! IMO, he is one of today's PT Barnums. He shares a motto with PT. There is a sucker born every minute!

clarice

So he's not ALL bad,ordi!

Allah brngs us a video reminder of the Plame/Wilson's shining moment in the sun,

http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/01/marked-for-death-wapo-calls-mediawhoregate-a-non-story/

KennyKSRO

I gotta say I dont get all the Leopold bashing. He's a good guy. I had him on my radio show six times over five years. And I think the funny thing is that everyone thinks he's this partisan reporter. He took Gray Davis apart on the energy crisis in California for two years straight. Pretty much exposed Davis' ineptitude. Leopold told me that he goes whereever the story is and he doesn't care if it's a democrat or republican.

But aside from that shit, having met the guy in person I think he's cool. People should cut him some slack.

Jane

Then we hear that the civil suit is likely on hold until after the midterms.

Where did we hear that?

Seems to me if true, it is a delay that is associated with risk. Hmmmm - the Wilson's have realized the risks of discovery now that the world seems to accept that Wilson lied (and isn't it funny that the world believes a WAPO editorial when it wouldn't even entertain that thought before). And of course in a civil deposition you can ask anything at all. No rules, nothing off limits, because after all in a 6 degree of separation world absolutely everything can lead to discoverable information...so Joey is running scared at this point. He's trying to buoy the masses who just a few short months ago were fawning over him at the WH correspondant's dinner, and the "yearly" Kos convention. How does crowd shrinkage feel Joey?

Well well well. I'll take that delay. Who knows what the people here will dig up by then.

MayBee

clarice- about Roger's point.

There is a line in Cold Mountain where Ruby says, "...But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say 'Shit, it's raining! ...".

I think about that line with all the press-ginned controversies in the last few years. From Plamegate to Katrina to the Unitary President, they write up overwrought controversies and then find it news that Bush's poll numbers are dropping. And once the poll numbers drop, they use that as reason to "question" his policies more-- because the American people are questioning him.


Jane

I think he's cool. People should cut him some slack.

Yeah let's all cut Rove-has-been-indicted-or-I'll-reveal-my-source-on-Friday some slack. Hell maybe he'll buy drinks. Joey must have paid him a good sum to keep mum.

Verner

Clarice,

Thanks for posting that. I think that for the most part RS is spot on. And you could see it from the moment those planes hit the twin towers. They just can't give up the idea that American hyperpower is the real evil in the world, and are blind to the fact that American power is keeping the world from devolving into utter chaos. It's more like religious faith than anything intellectual. And they are dangerous.

Wish I could write a more in depth commentary, but my eyes are crossing...

clarice

I think if there's a psychological factor and not just ratings and partisanship involved--that factor is denial. It's a Brechtian "Show us the way to the next whiskey bar..." type thing where anger at the changes in the world and the fear of the threats we face are too much for these clods. It's easier to just think Bush is making shit up .

verner

Jane,

If memory serves me, I read it at the EW. Maybe in the comments?

It makes sense if you think about it. Would you want to rush that dog to court?

Me either. Especially when you can milk a few more bills for the Wilson defense fund from the dummies.

ordi

I had forgotten their "grand entrance" and then Colbert's faux outing. Thanks for the Dew-spitter thru the nose! LOL

clarice

"I'm wearing Armani"

I was so angry that night.

MayBee

Kenny @ KSRO
I would be more willing to cut Leopold some slack for his personal behavior had he not been quite abusive to some of the posters on this blog.

As for his reporting skills, I have no doubt he has had some deep inside source(s) for the Wilson story. If you get a chance to interview him again, perhaps you could ask him about that.

MayBee

NYTs has something up.

SunnyDay

Mark Levin

After three years of Democrats and the news media smearing members of the Bush Administration, it appears that Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) conspired with Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame to use the justice system to attack members of the Bush Administration, said New York's top talk show host and former Reagan Justice Department chief of staff, Mark Levin.

SteveMG

Row, row, row your boat back...

NY Times re Fitzgerald

Pretty straight forward piece albeit with gaps (ahem).

Two interesting points:

Armitage resigned in November of 2004? I thought he was still at State.

Armitage did not know Novak?

SMG

MayBee

Apparently the Woodward/Armitage discussion never happened in NYTsland.

ordi

Clarice,

It's easier to just think Bush is making shit up.

That is unintentionally funny as well as ironic! They think Bush is making things up when it is really them that is making things up. Like PlameGate, TANG Memo, the 2000 911 conspiracies, Abu Grabi, Gitmo Prisoner and Koran abuse, ................... etc etc etc

topsecretk9

He turned over his calendars, datebooks and even his wife’s computer in the course of the inquiry, those associates said. But Mr. Armitage kept his actions secret, not even telling President Bush because the prosecutor asked him not to divulge it, the people said.

And he did not notice the Woodward appointment on June 12th - Woodward didn't write anything...either did Judy.

Also, does this have the odor of trap?

SunnyDay

Fitz had the dalendar and ignored it?

SunnyDay

abuse of power

SF Chronicle, of all places

topsecretk9

--Mr. Armitage had prepared a resignation letter, his associates said. But he stayed on the job because State Department officials advised that his sudden departure could lead to the disclosure of his role in the leak, the people aware of his actions said.--

Oh, I see. What do they say about the cover-up?

SunnyDay

and the backstabbing, disloyalty, and ignoring an order from the President to tell him if they were involved.

What a sad excuse for a man.

Sue

Mr. Fitzgerald may also point out that Mr. Armitage knew about Ms. Wilson’s C.I.A. role only because of a memorandum that Mr. Libby had commissioned as part of an effort to rebut criticism of the White House by her husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV.

Holy Cow! It's Libby's fault Armitage leaked?

topsecretk9

Yeah Sunny...had he any stones he would have insisted on telling the President and you know what? The President would have prolly stuck by him on it.

Because as the left has harped so many, many time in RE: to Libby's motion for dismissal...Fitz did to have a boss and that Boss was the President and they said Bush could "supervise" or fire Fitzgerald anytime.

MayBee

I see it now, Sue!
Libby asked State about Wilson specifically to get Armitage talking about Plame. Brilliant!

Sue

The freaking conspiracy was even more nefarious than even the left could have come up with.

MayBee

So the Prosecutor asked Armitage not to disclose his actions to the President of the United States?
While the President was making his people sign waivers, and had his feet held to the fire by the media to get to the bottom of this? Fitzgerald was telling Armitage not to talk to Bush about it?

Glorious.

Ranger

NYT

"New Questions About Inquiry in C.I.A. Leak"

And yet they fail to ask the most important one:

How could Fitz miss the fact that Armitage wasn't just the Novak leaker, he was also the "first leaker" that Fitz was so intent on finding?

Sue

Hmmm....

(Kyodo) _ Japan's next prime minister, to succeed Junichiro Koizumi this month, should visit Asia first and promote dialogue with China in such areas as energy to improve ties, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said in a recent interview.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060902/kyodo/d8jsdvko0.html>Source

SunnyDay

Yeah Sunny...had he any stones he would have insisted on telling the President and you know what? The President would have prolly stuck by him on it.

Yes, he probably would. He's loyal to a fault.

SunnyDay

he was also the "first leaker" that Fitz was so intent on finding?

Good leak!!

SunnyDay

If only some others pick up on the abuse of power theme. IMO, Fitz is the one to pressure.

I started reading here because I was so appalled at what was being done to Libby. Someone has to take this up and push Fitzgerald - make it impossible for him to carry this charade any further.

Does he even read the papers or watch the news?? How can he destroy this man? This is evil.

Clarice

Fitz also missed Wilson's name and phone number in her notes and agreed not to ask her about conversations with Libby even though she acknowledged she had had some.
Rwminds me of Nigong's photo identification which was made up of only Duke Lacrosse team memebrs (here's some fish in a barrel, pick some.)

topsecretk9

It was a leak investigation, who leaked Valerie Plames name

2 things

Either Fitzgerald purposefully mislead the administration - namely his boss the President

OR

He briefed the President about what he was doing, and the President allowed Fitzgerald to do whatever Fitzgerald thought he needed to do

Which means the Left can just kiss their own grits on all their stupid aspersions they cast on Bush, if this is the case.

clarice

[correction]Fitz also missed Wilson's name and phone number in Miller's notes and agreed not to ask her about conversations with anyone but Libby even though she acknowledged she had had some.
Rwminds me of NiFong's photo identification which was made up of only Duke Lacrosse team memebrs (here's some fish in a barrel, pick some.)

topsecretk9

-Does he even read the papers or watch the news?? -

Well this is his preferred method of keeping apprised of the status of his investigations!

SunnyDay

He briefed the President about what he was doing, and the President allowed Fitzgerald to do whatever Fitzgerald thought he needed to do

Which means the Left can just kiss their own grits on all their stupid aspersions they cast on Bush, if this is the case.

Possible, but I don't think so.

Sue

There is hardly anything out there on this story. I should say anything out there that is new. A lot of sources are repeating AP stories, etc. When it was a WH scandal, it was the lead story on Yahoo and Google. Google Armitage's name. The 2nd article it pulls up? Larry Johnson's. All I can say is Good Grief...

Sue

If State's lawyer informed Gonzales, then isn't it safe to say that Bush thought the leak came out of State?

topsecretk9

Well there is no upside for the media to look into what really was going on with the investigation (i.e. Fitz), not with many of them so entrenched in the story and on witness lists.

I suspect more Wilson background shoe dropping is the only out they've got.

MayBee

Oh, this is the part I was asking about earlier.
Is this normal- for Fitzgerald to tell Armitage not to tell the President of the US he was sending over his calendars, etc?

He turned over his calendars, datebooks and even his wife’s computer in the course of the inquiry, those associates said. But Mr. Armitage kept his actions secret, not even telling President Bush because the prosecutor asked him not to divulge it, the people said.

Wasn't Fitzgerald just asking Armitage to let this continue looking like a WH crime?

Sue

One thing the Times neglected to mention was Armitage's earlier conversation with Woodward.

clarice

Sue, DoS did it very sneakily. It send its GC Ford to Gonzales only to say they'd given some information to Fitz under circumstances where Gonzales could not inquire into what that was. Surely, he may have suspected that it related to the leak, but the information was too vague to be helpful. In any event Armitage and Powell had an obligation to tell Bush who had ordered them to tell him if anyone of them had leaked.

Sue

Clarice,

That is what I thought from the WaPo article, but the Times article has this:

Later, Mr. Taft spoke with the White House counsel, Alberto R. Gonzales, now the attorney general, and advised him that Mr. Armitage was going to speak with lawyers at the Justice Department about the matter, the people familiar with Mr. Armitage’s actions said. Mr. Taft asked Mr. Gonzales whether he wanted to be told the details and was told that he did not want to know.
MayBee

Later, Mr. Taft spoke with the White House counsel, Alberto R. Gonzales, now the attorney general, and advised him that Mr. Armitage was going to speak with lawyers at the Justice Department about the matter, the people familiar with Mr. Armitage’s actions said.

Other reports just said Taft told Gonzales they had given information to Justice. This is the first (I think) I've read that Armitage's name was mentioned. However, speaking "about" the matter could mean anything- it could mean he knew who did it, it could mean he was going to say he didn't know anything.

The lack of Woodward's story in this NYTs thing is really bugging me.

topsecretk9

--If State's lawyer informed Gonzales, then isn't it safe to say that Bush thought the leak came out of State?--

Maybe, BUT they didn't get specific cuz Gonzo played it by the book...which is a huge credit to the AT and Bush who insisted everyone sign waivers of confidentiality.


Think of that - the waivers...does the press even get what this precedent means to them?


The media really get all they deserve on this one, I hope many were weren't married to the story send many dozens of rotten eggs to Chris Matthew's.


(Weird theory by me...remember WindandSea found that Steve Clemmons blog, wherein Inman(sp) said everyone in WA knows that Armitage is a "target" ---well, just a thought on Army coming out...get the media real mad at Fitz, flood with the "gossip" reporting, Editorials about how stupid this whole thing was, to either make Fitz think 2ce about indicting Army or if he did Fitz looks even more Nifong like)

clarice

HEH!
"The blogger Atrios, whose real name is Duncan Black and who works for David Brock's media monitoring organization, and who in the past wrote passages like "'Twas the Night Before Fitzmas" and "Merry Fitzmas" (in which Black accompanied news of Lewis Libby's indictment with a picture of bottles of Champagne), is wondering why he's being asked for his reaction to the Richard Armitage/Plamegate news. In an entry titled, "The Stupidest Trolls on the Internets," Black writes:

Yes, I have them, and they [trolls] seem obsessed with the fact that I haven't commented on the information that Armitage was apparently Novak's initial source on Plame. I haven't commented because it isn't especially interesting, it doesn't change the basic narrative at all — Armitage was widely suspected of being that person — and it doesn't magically nullify every other factual revelation about the case, including that Karl Rove was Matt Cooper's source on Plame.

Sadly, it seems, the stupidest trolls on the internet have taken over the Washington Post editorial board. What a bunch of hacks unworthy to even scribble their delusionary nonsense on the Wall Street Journal editorial page."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NGNjZjllMDdmOTExNTY5NDBjZTI5OGRiZTZlZjAzZDk=

MayBee

Did Fitzgerald pressure Armitage to sign waivers?

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Wilson/Plame