But There Are No Witches!

Andrew Sullivan speaks out on the left's crusade to out gay Republicans and makes good points while irking Eugene Volokh (I have no doubt) with this:

The outing crusade gains momentum. Look: I loathe the closet. I despise the hypocrisy in the Republican party. But a witch-hunt is a witch-hunt. If the gay left thinks it will advance gay dignity by using tactics that depend on homophobia to work, that violate privacy, that demonizes gay people, then all I can say is: they are wrong. They will regret it. It will come back to haunt them. And they should cut it out.

Prof. Volokh was adamant:

I've long been quite troubled by the casual use of the term "witch-hunt." First, the most obvious thing that's wrong with witch-hunts is that there are no witches.

Well, it's just an expression.  And I hope it's obvious that I endorse Sully's position here, since I was anti-outing a few weeks back when David Corn had his list.

Maybe we can call this the October non-surprise - the energized intolerant left is on display.  Yike.

Comments

[Marcel]

What is it about certain Republicans and other people's sex lives? It seems to be an obsession.

[clarice]

There are outings that get coverage and outings that don't.
Intrigued by the Kennedy-USSR story, I dug around on the IT and found that three years ago Human Events covered this story in far greater depth. Ever hear of it?
Included in the story is more details about Tunney's lawfirm's work for the KGB.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200312/ai_n9318614

[clarice]

Oh, and I have to thank the editors of the WaPo which gave front page coverage to a lengthy article on hoe Foley befriended pages--with no evidence of sexual contact with them (though you have to wade thru to the end to find that). No word of the Intel Committee kerfuffle though that I can see.

Look at the bright side, we can know cancel our subscription to the National Enquirer.

[clarice]

**Now, not know*******

[Charlie (Colorado)]

What is it about certain Republicans and other people's sex lives? It seems to be an obsession.

Republicans?

Mike Rogers isn't a Republican. The folks who outed Foley aren't Republicans.

I don't think they're giving us real trolls any more ... they're scripts.

[Jane]

And it's not republicans who at every turn refer to Foley as a pedophile, absent any evidence, or say the leadership knew about it for a year, again absent any evidence.

It is however, republicans who don't bother to correct them..

[Cecil Turner]

And I hope it's obvious that I endorse Sully's position here . . .

Looks to me like he's got a few contentions:

1. They are wrong;
2. They will regret it;
   It will come back to haunt them; [same thing, I think]
3. And they should cut it out.

Those are all good . . . laudable even. But this part really bugged me:

The fact that their motives might be good is no excuse.

"Their motives might be good"? Where's the good motive in intentionally hurting someone else for political gain? Or possibly it's in making them face up to their life decisions and stop "living a lie"? ("Tough love" sorta thing?) Forcing GOP members to recognize there might be some deviants in their midst? Sorry, none of those are working for me. There's no public interest, no "greater good," just partisan political advantage. And the casual willingness of certain people to do their utmost to trash someone else's life for personal gain is despicable.

The victims are gay people - flawed, fallible, even pathetic gay people. But they are still people. And they deserve better.

Hey, no kidding. I'm hardly a supporter of gay rights, but common decency for people is a relatively easy concept to get behind. I'd like to think I'd have more compassion for a dog . . . even if he voted Democrat (and apparently most who vote, do).

[Daddy]

Rebecca Nurse, who was hung in Salem as a convicted Witch in 1692, is something like my great, great, great, great Aunt. That family history has always been somewhat of a humerous mark of pride amongst our coven, excuse me, clan. While my 2 little girls and I were carving Jack-O-Lantern's last night, with candles going and a big pile of pumpkin guts on the table, I regaled 'em again with what we know of Rebecca's story, and they wound up crawling in our big bed about midnight with nightmares. This happens about once a year, just about as often as Andrew Sullivan swerves into a correct opinion on his blog.

PS. Charlie, nice write-up on Amazon of "1066 and all that."

[Jackson H.]

There are many ironies involved in this "outing" disgrace, and in my opinion, most of the really nasty behavior rests on the Left side of the blogosphere. Most of the lefties who have even commented on it, have essentially supported the outings, justifying it as appropriate retribution for their hypocrisy. Some, such as the nitwit college instructor who can barely type his own name correctly, rail against others, such as Glenn Reynolds who have criticized the outings as forms of sexual McCarthyism. This jerk with his blog, appropriately named "Balloon Juice," dumps all over Reynolds by asserting ONLY one minor liberal blogger even participated in the outings.

I suppose one good result of this sorry episode is that we all know now, if we didn't before, that the Left is ever bit as intolerant as the furtherest reaches of the far right.

[Rick Ballard]

Sullivan managed to spit this out after Foley's disclosure of his early "nurturing" by a homosexual priest. He managed to restrain himself prior to that news popping up.

Meme conflict resolutions are so difficult.

[David Cohen]

Of course there are witches. If there aren't, who are all those women driving around town with "My Other Car Is A Broom" bumperstickers?

[Patton]

I would love to see, and have been wondering what would happy if NBC Chris Hansen or even ABC Brian Ross did a special on setting up gay men that like younger boys, say 15-16 year olds.

Gee, what would happen if they set up a sting in San Francisco to out gay men that set up laisons with boys?

Or better yet, ala Mr. Foley, isn't it just as newsworthy to out gay men that set up sexual liaisons with men of 18,19, or 20 years old? The press has certainly found those newsworthy.

Or does ABC and NBC fear too many gay men that work there will be outed??

[Patton]

And by the way, the definition of witches:

1. A woman claiming to possess magical powers and practice sorcery.
2. A believer or follower of Wicca; a Wiccan.
3. A hag.
4. A woman considered to be spiteful or overbearing.

Sounds like a description of the Democrat party, and all of those do certainly exist, but not here...

[Jane]

So I guess by definition a "fag hag" is a gay witch.

I have mixed feelings about this story. I've been very impressed with much of the right's response to the Foley saga and really bummed out by the rest of the right's response. And Andrew Sullivan is always a disappointment.

I remember early on Charlie said he supported Foley because nothing had been proven at that point. Nothing has still been proven, but in the words of his successor on the ballot, foley has been "given the death penalty". I have no doubt that being gay was the reason for that particular punishment when you get right down to it.

I find the left utterly despicable, but I find them utterly despicable regardless of the subject matter, so that's not big news. I'm disgusted by the HRC and Rogers and the rest of them and only hope that left leaning gays wake up and smell the coffee.

I went over to another conservative blog during this whole foley thing, and was called a "troll" because I tried to remind them that Gerry Studd's partner was not entitled to his pension not because he wasn't married to his partner, but because Federal law (DOMA) prohibits the extension of those laws to gay marrieds. They denied gay marriage exists in MA and were gleeful with the idea that perhaps Studd's or Barney Frank haven't planned for that reality. (Because gay people are stupid I guess).

Okay I'm rambling, but this whole Foley story still bothers me for a lot of reasons.

[clarice]

I'm angry, too. The very same voices that would have regarded special scrutiny and treatment of Foley because he was gay, cannot give up on this story in which he was falsely accused of being a predatory pedophile.
The WaPo has a front page long story on him today which you have to wend to the end to see a statement that he never forced himself on anyone nor had sexual relations with a minor.

OTOH (see Sweetness & Light) it is obvious that the left is disappointed that the "stupid Christers" haven't bitten.

[topsecretk9]

Unbelievable...Riehl'sl world catches the nutroots election day campaign...

Next, I would like to announce a second major campaign that I would like to have up and running by Tuesday morning, at the absolute latest. As with Use It Or Lose It, this campaign will need your help to succeed. I have tentatively named it Google Bombing The Election.

What
The utilization of Google Adwords and simultaneous, widespread embedded hyperlinks in order to drive as many voters as possible toward the most damning, non-partisan article written on the Republican candidate in seventy key US Senate and House races. The campaign will run from Tuesday, October 24th until Tuesday, November 7th.

That's right, the principled and full of ideas nutroots is waging a massive Google Bomb of negative stories on GOP candidates...BUT DON"T you DARE allege the internet jihadist's had anything to do with hacking Joe Liebermann's site.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/10/22/133240/91

[Sue]

Top,

That needs to be widely spread. Get Larwyn on it. ::grin::

[Sue]

Actually, it seems a little like the Ford campaign in Tennessee. Desparate. They must really not believe the MSM. ::grin::

[Rick Ballard]

TS,

That idea ranks right up there with nominating Unready Neddy in CT. The Kosola boys are playing the Kossacks as suckers better than PT Barnum ever played the dumbest hick in Podunk.

The MYDD jerk is the one who used to specialize in penny stock scams - I've seen some of his election "commentary" and I know of three posts in my fence with higher IQs.

[SlimGuy]

Just another example of the nutroots belief that the end justifies the means and a tacit admission of their bankruptcy in the marketplace of ideas.

[SlimGuy]

TS 9

The twerp at mydd has been doing a lot of updates to the original post.

Recommend you put Clarice in touch with this so she can expose the tactic with a shoutout over at AT

[SlimGuy]

Btw

I captured the page incase it decides to go poof.

[Jane]

OTOH (see Sweetness & Light) it is obvious that the left is disappointed that the "stupid Christers" haven't bitten.

Sweetness & Light is where I was called a troll. Many of their posters are true gay-hating right wingers. I'm used to the people here. It came as a bit of a shock to me.

[maryrose]

Jane:
I agree with you. Any extreme extremism is off the hook. Live and let live. I'm for civil unions and believe partners should get death benefits and insurance. Let's try to respect each other's rights and privacy.

[SlimGuy]

Rogers the outer is posting letters he is sending to members of the religious right to join his campaign.

He is trying to make it wedge issue and drive value voters away.

I don't think they will buy into his crap.

[Jane]

You know I don't really care if people support or oppose gay marriage. I think that is a personal thing. It's the active campaigning for their misfortune, or characterizing them as stupid that pisses me off. But I'm weird about that issue because of my business partner. She always jokes that I'm the gay advocate in the office, because she couldn't really care less. She is too busy living her life.

[MayBee]

Many witch trial accusers didn't believe there actually were witches. At least, they didn't necessarily believe the women they were accusing were witches. Instead, they used the tactic to take revenge on women they disliked for other reasons, all the while convincing "the people" that the extraordinary tactics were for the common good. The fact that there were no witches makes the phrase even more apropos.

The exact same thing is true of the gay outings. Those doing it know they are doing it strictly for partisan political reasons, yet labeling it for "gay rights" or because of "self-loathing gays" or against hypocrisy or the closet gives it the sheen (as Andrew Sullivan says) of having good intentions.

Its a tactic used to manipulate others into believing the end justifies the means.

[Walter]

The uninformed push to tar Republicans as bigots (for hiring people w/o regard to their sexual orientation, natch) has begun in earnest.

It appears that some on the Left have grown tired of waiting. The List has not been distributed nor acted upon by Republicans or conservatives, but partisanship knows no bounds.

Leonard Pitts (in syndication):

And in the midst of this babble of cross purposes, this inability to get its story straight, a representative for the party insists that it remains open to people of all kinds. As far as I know, this was said with a straight face.

And I haven't even mentioned The List yet. Meaning a catalogue of gay Republican aides on Capitol Hill that reportedly has been circulated among evangelical Christian organizations and so-called family values groups — presumably to encourage a campaign to "de-homofy" the party. The tar is boiling, the feathers waiting.

According to press reports, such a list would include aides to George Allen, the Virginia senator who has vigorously opposed gay marriage, and Rick Santorum, the Pennsylvania senator who has compared homosexuality to beastiality.

The List — somewhere, Joe McCarthy is laughing — suggests there is no shortage of gay people willing to work against — or at the very least, defer — their own interests. It also suggests that officials of the party that has made vilification of gays its byword have been — pardon my language — liberal in their hiring practices. Evidently, they wanted the best person, sexual orientation be darned. Imagine that.

The GOP philosophy seems to be that it's OK to be gay, so long as you're not, you know, "gay." Sort of in the way the party prizes those black folks — Rice, Colin Powell — who don't go around reminding people they're black all the time.

Note that, if you are completely untethered by facts, you can accuse people of threatening to out an acknowledged homosexual (Santorum's aide).

I guess that's why Dave Barry used to say "(I am not making this up)" so often. He figured that people were used to the habits of his fellow columnists on the Herald.

[ajacksonian]

Thought I posted,but obviously off in the bit bucket...

Welcome to Mr. Roger's Authoritarian Neighborhood where *he* is the one to decide what is and is not proper for a gay person to do, say or think. If you don't put sexual orientation above all else and don't come out... well, Mr. Rogers will decide you really don't *deserve* to have a private life. Yes, all those wonderful folks who stand up for the right to privacy, sit on their hands when Mr. Rogers decides he is the arbiter of what is and is not private for folks of a different sexual persuasion.

And for all the love of *diversity* you are *not* allowed to have a different opinion. Diversity, I guess, only goes so far. Don't try to say that you are gay and do *not* support gay marriage or special rights or, indeed, anything that is outside of the agenda of Mr. Rogers. He will control the horizontal. He will control the verticle. He will decide just which staffer is or is not in the 'limelight' and adjust his outing accordingly.

Such a fine and upstanding supporter of the right to privacy... so long as you don't waver from the world as he sees it. For all the yells from the Left about McCarthyism, when it actually pops up they are silent. Because it is from *their* side, so it must be *good*. So flexible their outlook! So amazing that some Citizens deserve privacy while others do not based solely on sexual orientation. And every day that Leftists do *not* speak up about this, about the hard won ability to get *privacy* defined, instead of seeing it as reserved via Amendments IX and X, they now go silent on those they *like* ignoring it.

Soon white will be the new black, and black the new white, even if the colors in question are puce and lavendar.

[SunnyDay]

Conservative gays don't believe there should be special interest groups with special rights.

[Daddy]

Maybee, I think you're right about folks frequently using the "She's a witch" tactic for revenge for personal reasons. I recall that the mother of the great mathematician Johann Kepler, had somehow angered a neighbor lady, who responded by accusing Kepler's mother of being a witch. Kepler had to spend an enormous amount of his time and money during his productive years keeping her from being executed. Some of the newer history books however are now suggesting that Kepler himself actually poisoned Tycho Brahe with mercury, so that he could get his hands on Tycho's closely guarded books of 30 years of astronomical observations, which finally allowed Kepler to come up with his laws explaining planetary orbits, etc. If so, maybe the one that should have been prosecuted for witchcraft shouldn't have been his momma, but the old mathematical Astrologer himself.

[hit and run]

Rick: I've seen some of his election "commentary" and I know of three posts in my fence with higher IQs.

How long is your fence? I'm afraid you may have just insulted a large number of fence posts.

[Gary Maxwell]

Rick

I know of three posts in my fence with higher IQs.

Only three? Must be a mud fence. Those arent very bright.

[Gary Maxwell]

Leonard Pitts is sure a trip aint he? Blacks that dont remind people that they are black all the time are to be scorned apparently. Dr. King had a dream but it is lying in pieces on the ground like one of the earlier Wright Bros. projects.

[richard mcenroe]

"there are no witches..."

I'm sorry, have you SEEN

Sheehan
Hillary
Pelosi
Laurie David
Streisand
Rosie
Janeane
Natalie
Greer... ?