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October 06, 2006

Comments

SlimGuy

Sara

She has had vertebraes fused and perhaps 8 or 9 operations on her back.

But she is still upbeat.

Last week she told me that now she has the breasts of a 20 year old.

I told her TMI.
LOL

SunnyDay

BTW wants to distract us.

Sara (Squiggler)

Ever since I looked at those myspace page pages, I've been getting all kinds of myspace email updates. I didn't click on anything, but somehow they got a cookie or something. Anyone else have this happen?

clarice

Niters.

SlimGuy

BTW

Please go diagram sentences somewhere else.

Do you know how bad you look intejecting yourself into our conversation about one of our contributers here having a physical problem.

Damn you a a no rate low rate slug.

Hide , it is the best choice you can do.

Sara (Squiggler)

SG -- now if I had that to look forward to, I'd suffer all the pain and then some gladly. LOL.

SunnyDay

Sara, with that much equity you can get a loan. Go to my site and talk to the brokers there. They won't solicit your business - they will help you find a way.

To anyone with equity in your house. Get a HELOC while everything is going good, and just let it sit there for that rainy day, even if you have money. You can never get credit when you need it, only when you don't.

Sorry. This is what I do.

Back to regular programming.

SunnyDay

Sara - no email updates for me. You might have some sneaky programs on your computer.

Sara (Squiggler)

Nite Clarice, thanks for the words of encouragement.

Sunny, I will definitely come take a look.

SlimGuy

Sara

Physical attirbutes don't make a person. Yes gravity works it's devil magic over the years.

People are people. So many make the mistake of contriving examples to what they concieve they should aspire to.

My wife who I lost about a year ago was understanding in that, an I supported her view.

Physical attributes are eye candy, but they are not substansive. The person and their value system and their essense is them.

For me I would take a valuable person over a hot babe any day.

SlimGuy

BTW wants to distract us.

Posted by: SunnyDay | October 07, 2006 at 12:08 AM

No sunny he/she put themselves into the middle of a conversation that was on an entirely different topic.

As far as I am concerned BTW owes everyone an apology and sara in particular. His sniping comments did not need to be inserted into the middle of a discussion that had taken a whole diffent tack.

He bares the responsibility, but I will be surprised if he takes it.

Sara (Squiggler)

You are right, of course, SG. But, I think every woman wants to feel sexy. I know my Mom used to love it when her water delivery guy flirted with her. She said the best thing about being over 80 was how many young men flirted compared to when she was much younger. She called it the Sexy Great Grandmother phenom. or in other words, safe old lady.

I'm sorry to hear you so recently lost your wife.

SlimGuy

Sara

Have you ever visited the situation which goes by the term of "Silver Cougars". I know it is not a common term. But old guys are known for trying to aquire their "trophy wives" and older ladies sometimes work in the same vein.

Well I will get off this topic since it has noting to do with our initial thread.

But if I can discover a way to converse with you about this I think we should both explore all the ramifications surrounding this situation.

I feel that somehow this discussion has hijacked this thread.

Sara (Squiggler)

SG, I have a hard and fast rule -- if you don't remember the Summer of '63, you are either too old or too young for me. LOL. Now we really should return the thread. Sorry everyone for the diversion.

SlimGuy

One more post an I will shut up for tonight

This poem that is by an anonymous author was given to me by my future wife on the occassion of my asking her to marry me

Touch me --- in secret places no one has reached before,
--- in silent places where words only interfere,
--- in sad places where only whispering makes sense.

Touch me --- in the morning when night still clings,
--- at midday when confusion crowds upon me,
--- at twilight as I begin again to know who I am,
--- in the evening when I see you and I hear you best of all.

Touch me --- like a child who will never have enough love,
--- for I am a girl who wants to be lost in your arms,
a woman who has known enough pain to love,
a mother who is strong enough to give.

Touch me --- in crowds when a single look says everything,
--- in solitude when it's too dark to even look,
--- in absence when I reach for you through time and miles.

Touch me --- when I ask,
--- when I'm afraid to ask.

Touch me --- with your lips,
your hands,
your words,
your presence in the room.

Touch me --- gently for I am fragile,
--- firmly for I am strong,
--- often for I am alone.

A lovely poem that totally reflected the essence of my wife.

Sadly I lost her last August, but I am humbly thankfull for have having the pleasure and priviledge to have known and loved and been loved by such a sensitive lady.

So if some of you have seen the post from my wife to be that she gave to me, this is the one I shared with her a few weeks earlier.

It is by Rod McKuen

This is the way it was
while I was waiting for your eyes
to find me.

I was drifting going no place
Hypnotized by sunshine
maybe,
barking back at seals along the beach.
Skipping flat stones on the water,
but much too wise for sand castles.
My castles were across the sea
or still within my mind.

There were the beach bars
and the other beach people
sometimes little bedrooms were my beach,
but I was drifting.

I must have thought the night could save me
as I went down into pillows
looked up through dirty windows
smiled back from broken mattresses
turned in Thunderbirds
and kissed in elevators.

I cried too sometimes
For me.

I loved every face I thought looked pretty
and every kindred eye I caught in crowds.
But I was drifting,
before you.

As all can see from the content , I have posted it befor.

But it means a lot to me.
__________________

Sara (Squiggler)

Sounds like you are one of the lucky ones to have live a real love story. Lucky guy.

Patton

BTW spouts off:
"Most teenagers are very very concerned about zits."
YOU SOUND LIKE YOU ARE ONE. YOU SHOULD BE GLAD ZITS ARE YOU BIGGEST CONCERN.

"Most teenagers would have the sense not to launch a preemptive war to preempt nothing."

PURE SILLINESS, MOST TEENAGES DON'T RECEIVE DAILY INTELLIGENCE REPORTS. MOST TEENAGERS DIDN'T SPEND THE LAST 8 YEARS HAVING BILL CLINTON TELL US WHAT A BAD GUY SADDAM WAS. MOST TEENAGERS DIDN'T SEE CLINTONS ADMINSTRATION DO THE WAR DANCE OVER SADDAM IN 1998, PERHAPS YOU COULD GOOGLE IT WHEN YOUR DONE WITH YOUR ZITS.
MOST TEENAGERS DIDN'T SEE CLINTON SIGN THE IRAQI FREEDOM BILL.

"Most teenagers would have the sense to respond aggressively to a disaster like Katrina."

MORE SILLINESS, THE FEDERAL RESPONSE WAS THE MOST EXTENSIVE IN HISTORY, IT WAS FASTER AND MUCH MORE EXPANDED. DO A LITTLE RESEARCH RATHER THEN WATCH THE LAMESTREAM MEDIA. TELL ME ONE OTHER DISASTER THAT HAD MORE FEDERAL AID, RESCUE EFFORT AND SUPPORT THEN KATRINA. CLINTON BRAGS ABOUT HIS RESPONSES BUT GO BACK AND LOOK, NO FEDERAL HELP ACTUALLY CAME FOR DAYS OR WEEKS LATER.

MOST TEENAGERS WOULD HAVE THE SENSE TO LEAVE A CITY THAT IS GOING TO FLOOD, OR THEIR MAYOR OR GOVERNOR SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN THEM OUT. MOST TEENAGERS COULD SEE HUNDREDS OF NEW ORLEANS BUSES FLOODED OUT AND ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR BUSES SITING IN PARKING LOTS IN A FLOOD ZONE. MOST TEENAGERS COULD SEE THROUGH THE MEDIA LIES OF MURDERS AND RAPES THAT SIMPLY DIDN'T OCCUR - APPRENTLY YOUR NOT AS BRIGHT AS MOST TEENGAGERS.

"Most teenagers would have taken the threat of Al Qaeda seriously if they received a CIA memo titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US"."

NEVER HAPPENED IDIOT BOY. YOU ARE TRYING TO TALK ABOUT THE TITLE OF A BRIEFING CHART THAT ACTAULLY SAID 'BIN LADEN WANTED TO ATTACK US SINCE 1996' - YOU KNOW WHEN HE DECLARED WAR ON US DURING CLINTONS YEARS OF NOT TAKING HIM SERIOUSLY. GUESS DUMB TEENAGERS AREN'T AWARE OF THE RICHARD CLARK MEMO SAYING IF WE ATTACK AFGHANISTAN BIN LADEN WILL 'BOOGIE TO BAGHDAD'. THAT WAS CLINTONS FAVORITE TERRORISM GUY THAT WROTE THAT MEMO.

"Most teenagers have the sense not to screw with the US constiution."

YEAH, AND THERE NOT ALLOWED. GOOD THING EHH. BUT IT WASN'T BUSH THAT DID THAT - THAT WAS CLINTONS DOINGS. JUST ASK THE BRANCH DAVIDIANS - OHH, SORRY, THEY ARE ALL DEAD AND THEY WERE ACTUAL CITIZENS NOT TERRORISTS. YOU WOULD THINK AFTER TERRORISTS ATTACKED THE WTC IN 1993 UNDER BILL CLINTON HE WOULD HAVE ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING.

" Most teenagers don't want to get buggered by perverted 52 yo US congressman."

YES, BUT SOME DO - WE CALL THEM PELOSI CONSTITUENTS. THATS WHY PELOSI MARCHES WITH PEOPLE LIKE HARRY HAY THAT SUPPORTS NAMBLA AND ADVOCATES OLD MEN SEX WITH 13,14,15 YEAR OLD BOYS. OR PELOSI'S REPEATED SUPPORT FOR GERRY STUDDS THAT ACTUALLY DID BUGGER A 17 YEAR OLD, NOT JUST SENT THEM AN E-MAIL. OF COURSE PELOSI HAD NO PROBLEM WITH STUDDS AND VOTED FOR HIM TO BE A COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN.

"Most teenagers ... but not the one in the Oval Office."

SORRY, THERE HASN'T BEEN A TEENAGER IN THE OVAL OFFICE SINCE CLINTON WAS CAUGHT MASTURBATING IN THE SINK WITH HIS INTERN AND USING HIS CIGAR AS A SEXUAL AID.
TALK ABOUT A TEENAGER.

YOUR PROBABLY RIGHT BTW, MOST TEENAGERS WILL FALL FOR THIS CRAP, ALONG WITH A LOT OF OTHER, THAT'S WHY THEY SUPPORT DEMOCRATS - BUT WHEN THEY GET OLDER, WISER, SMARTER, THEY BECOME REPUBLICANS/CONSERVATIVES.

BUT YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY, YOU ARE WITH THE 'MOST' CROWD, NOT THE 'EXCEPTIONAL' CROWD.

Patton

For the life of me I can't figure out what people see in the original e-mails that would have been a red flag.

Maybe someone can tell me, but if asking how soomeone is doing and asking to send a picture makes you a pedofile, then I know thousands of them.

I don't know how many times I have heard someon ask a kid how old they are, it is a basic question.

I think clearly knowing Foley was gay, these people just assumed he was after sex with underage boys.

I think it is clearly a double standard and I bet if I got to review all the Congresses e-mails with anyone under 18, and this was the standard - there wouldn't be anyone left in the house.

I mean every Christmas people take the kids, put them on a strange mans knee and he asks them how old the are and wants a picture with them....with this standrd, they are all pedophiles.

Patton

So all we need is a system adminstrator to run a quesry against all the house's e-mail archives. Find any e-mail that contains the words: PICTURE and AGE ......and publish them all so we can determine whether that was a pedophile e-mail.

Patton

Does anyone believe JUST reading those e-mails would actually cause an FBI investigation? Would actually cause ABC News to devote resources to investigate.

Gee, I e-mailed a cousin I raely talk to a few months ago and asked her, her kids ages and to send us a picture if she gets a chance. Now I am wondering if she reported me to the FBI.

And my spouse recieved an e-mail from an old co-worker asking about our kids, but now it seems strange that he would e-mail us out of the blue, and being a single man in his forties. Hmm. I thinking I may want to call the FBI on him too.
Always wondered why he drove a Miata.

Got to reach Brian Ross to, the Miata angle may draw him into this.......

Patton

Ooops false alarm, he only drove the Miata because he got it in the divorse.

Don't think we will be hearing from him again since the FBI came by his office and spoke to his boss. And those cameras crews chasing him into his house....

Its tough to lose a friend, but you can't be too careful....I am sure he'll get his life back together and find a job...hoo hmm..let me get back to reviewing those old JOM posts to see if I can find any other suspects....

Patton

What I am getting at for the slow crowd like BTW is clearly, CLEARLY ABC News and CREW based their decision that Foley was a bad guy solely because he was GAY.

THEY DISCRIMINATED! Something they constantly tell us is a NO NO. Fact is they did not treat a gay man the same way they would have treated a straight guy, period.


So what does this say about their view that gays should be scout masters and it should be of NO CONCERN to the parents about their sexual orientation.

verner

OK, a few thoughts:

I think it now appears that the LA boy's e-mails were just priming the pump. The IMs are the thing. The e-mails get shopped around for months--but we just can't spring the IMs, cause there's no evidence that "Hastert Knew", or for that matter, that they were either authentic or illegal. They've had them for years, but could not figure out a good way to use them until a mole in ALexander's office passed the "over friendly" e-mails on--likely to someone in Pelosi's office.

We seem to have an epicenter here.

The Page Association board. Jordan and Loraditch have a key role in establishing and maintaining both the board and the association. They appear to be good friends. Another frequant poster is Adelaidemocrat--a kid that lives very near the infamous Royal Oaks--home of the SSP ISP.Slim Guy says there is another Michigan democrat page involved in the board as well.

Now, Ms Robin the moonbat(and if you haven't seen her site with her Paris apt--take a look--gag me--I can just see her in broken french--oyioyi jay daytest BOOOOSH) "approaches" the pages for her Book in what appears to be 2003 (could be earlier) not long after her openly gay darling Chris has ended his stay. Do you mean to tell me that Chris--just as rabid in his politics as Mama-- didn't tell her about FFF? Did Robin, a woman of some means and a few connections, who lives in Los Altos, just in the shaddow of the UC Berkeley campus hook up with the ambitious young Mr. Edmund through the board? (Or was the board used as a pretext to hide the hookup--and dig for dirt? Hmmm) Did they meet to discuss and dish the dirt in San Francisco? In any case, we KNOW they knew of each other.

And what is Mr. Loraditch's involvement? He is suppose to be a straight young republican--but the snoops at FR have found his screen name in a few very interesting, very gay livejournal sites. Not that that necessarily means anything--we could be dealing with a hacker out to sully young Mr. L. Nor is it anyone's business--but considering the nature of this little story, it is important to note.

Another satelite to this planetary system is a democrat page from Arizona--whose myspace page linked to Chris Kastaros. This young man was quoted by CNN. ( He appears to be in AZ now, and Rodgers did mention flying someone in...) Curious that with the hundreds of kids that have circulated through the program since 1995--all the media coverage seems to be centered around this bunch. (An exception would be that Vivyan character,who is dubious at best and openly gay--his stories have been shot down as far as I'm concerned)

Now, considering all of that, I think it is important that the public demand that ABC release the names of the "ex-pages", or retract the story. There are just too many harmonic convergences for this to be either "spontanious" or "Random."

They have literally destroyed Foley's life, and for what? Doing what millions of gay men legally do every day of the week? Geez, has anyone ever read the personals on Craiglist? I might think it is disgusting, and I'm glad that he is gone. But the law isn't based on my own personal moral framework. I actually hope that , if what he says is true, and he never touched anyone he couldn't legally touch, Foley sues everyone--including Harold Ford Jr.-- that has referred to him as a child molester. And, if what I suspect is true-- I hope the "children" behind this disgusting mess get outed for the role they have played in the new DC gay witch hunt.

Patton

Ohh BTW, for those teenagers out there that don't remember:

We had an underage page buggered by Gerry Studds, go Google the Democrats response.

And we had the WTC bombed under Bill Clinton, go Google his response. I'll give you a clue, he wouldn't even visit the site only getting as close as New Jersey.

Then Clinton told the Nation what should be carved on his headstone under 'Go put some ice on that';

Clinton said: "I would discourage the American people from overreacting to this". WTC blown up, nine dead, thousands injured, plan was to topple one building into the other and hopefully kill 40,000 and Clinton says don't overreact. He had bigger fish to fry like the Branch Davidians - you knw the real evil ones.

Yeah, even a teenager can figure that out BTW.

Patton

Ohh BTW, Democrats have always been HUGE supporters of the ACLU, so what is the ACLU position on NAMBLA buggering kids:

the ACLU lately has stained its reputation through its actions in two cases involving the treatment of vulnerable, young Americans. The ACLU is defending those who abuse children while attacking those who give them moral guidance. This contrast reveals the priorities of today's ACLU.

The ACLU is defending the North American Man-Boy Love Association in a civil lawsuit filed by Mr. and Mrs. Robert Curley. The Curleys claim NAMBLA advocates sex between grown men and little boys, reportedly as young as age 8. It was a NAMBLA man named Charles James that upset the couple...

Jaynes did not simply read NAMBLA's materials and ponder its message. He and Salvatore Sicari actively sought a boy with whom to copulate. They picked 10-year-old Jeffrey Curley of Cambridge, Massachusetts. They lured him into their car as he played outside his home in October 1997. When Curley resisted their sexual advances, they choked him to death with a gasoline-soaked rag. Then they took the boy's body across state lines to Jayne's apartment in Manchester, New Hampshire. They molested the cadaver and stuffed it into a cement-filled Rubbermaid container. Finally, they crossed state lines again into Maine, whereupon they tossed Jeffrey Curley's remains into the Great Works River, from which it was recovered within days. Jaynes and Sicari were convicted of these crimes in 1998, for which they are serving life sentences.

SO, BTW, next time a Democrat stands up for and with the ACLU, remember
Jeffrey Curley.

Maybe Pelosi can give us her view on the ACLUs defense of NAMBLA and its members.

Ohh, I forgot, she is more concerned with e-mails then being choked to death with a gasoline soaked rag....

Jane

If you think about this situation in reverse, that Foley was a democrat and a republican called for his resignation based on the emails, the entire story would be about the right's homophobia.

As it stands, the story should be about the left's homophobia, and the its unmitigated willingness to sell out anyone, for any reason to try and regain power.

Patton

BTW, Pelosi, huge ACLU supporter:ACLU, huge NAMBLA supporter...you do the math.

According to lawyers familiar with NAMBLA's website" NAMBLA actually posted techniques designed to lure boys into having sex with men and also supplied information on what an adult should do if caught."

NAMBLA is "not just publishing material that says it's OK to have sex with children and advocating changing the law," says Larry Frisoli, a Cambridge attorney who is arguing the Curleys case in federal court. NAMBLA, he says, "is actively training their members how to rape children and get away with it. They distribute child pornography and trade live children among NAMBLA members with the purpose of having sex with them."

Frisoli cites a NAMBLA publication he calls "The Rape and Escape Manual." Its actual title is "The Survival Manual: The Man's Guide to Staying Alive in Man-Boy Sexual Relationships."

"Its chapters explain how to build relationships with children," Frisoli tells me. "How to gain the confidence of children's parents. Where to go to have sex with children so as not to get caught...There is advice, if one gets caught, on when to leave America and how to rip off credit card companies to get cash to finance your flight. It's pretty detailed."

"In his diary, Jaynes said he had reservations about having sex with children until he discovered NAMBLA," Frisoli continues. "It's in his diary in 1996, around the time he joined NAMBLA, one year before the death of Jeffrey Curley."

The practical, step-by-step advice Jaynes followed goes far beyond appeals to sway public opinion in favor of pedophilia. Such language aids and abets felonious conduct. If such conspiracy results in homicide, it is reasonable for NAMBLA to face civil liability if not criminal prosecution.

Ohio's Court of Appeals found NAMBLA complicit in an earlier child-rape case.

BTW, YOU CAN BRING THIS UP WITH PEOLOSI AT YOUR NEXT ACLU MEETING.

verner

Amen Jane. So far, what do they have on Foley? He was gay, and though open about it in most circles didn't go public with the info. He also liked 16-18 year olds--but it seems like the farthest he got was sending electronic communication to those in the 17-18 year old range who seemed rather receptive for whatever reason. Foley seems like a whole hell of a lot of men out there--both hetero and homo. How many straight men would be doing the nasty with 16 year old girls if it was completely legal to do so? It is no different for gay men. Foley might have had the desire, but at this point it doesn't appear he acted upon it, because it was illegal. You're an attorney, is desire illegal? I hope not, cause we don't have enough jails as it is. Besides, that's getting pretty Orwellian, don't ya think.

clarice

Mt take exactly.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5925


Oh and that other guy, Lyyveld or something who claimed he'd received IMs from decades ago---He's been yanked from TV (Larry King,Nancy Grace)upon a message from other pages saying he was a damned liar and a Dem shill.

Semanticleo


Since y'all are spinning that miraculous
Rumplestilskin fabric, I thought Anonymous Liberal had something that most of you will
not see, but should.


"Here's my very simple idea for a Democratic campaign ad:

-The GOP's 1994 "Contract with America" appears on the screen.

-As the camera focuses in on the Contract's preamble, we can hear Republican House members reciting the words:

[W]e intend to act "with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right." To restore accountability to Congress. To end its cycle of scandal and disgrace. To make us all proud again of the way free people govern themselves.

-Halfway through the recitation, the screen switches to footage of the 1994 press conference on the steps of the Capitol, where all the Republican members of the House solemnly pledged to end the "cycle of scandal and disgrace" in Washington.

-The screen then flashes in rapid succession to headlines of all the Republican scandals of the last few years: Randy "Duke" Cunningham behind bars, Tom Delay indicted and resigning in disgrace, Bob Ney pleading guilty to corruption charges, Mark Foley exposed as a child predator, Dennis Hastert and the Republican leadership implicated in a cover up, etc. etc.

-The screen then flashes to the original TV Guide advertisement used to launch the Contract with American. In bold type it reads: “If we break this contract, throw us out. We mean it.”

-The commerical ends with the narrator asking, in a solemn voice: "Had enough?""

SlimGuy

Powerline has an excellent commentary on Hastert today

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/015474.php

in part

ut in doing so, we need to be careful about the facts, more careful than I was here. Consider, for example, this statement by our friend Ed Morissey: "[T]he father of all this misery comes from the decision made by Hastert and/or his staff to keep the parental complaint about Foley from the bipartisan Page Board." Well, if Hastert decided to keep a complaint about Foley from the Page Board, that's pretty damning. But if Hastert didn't hear about the complaint, and it was his staff members who decided to keep it from the Board, that's less damning when it comes to Hastert. And if his staff members didn't decide to keep the matter from the Page Board, but rather initiated a process through which it was presented to Rep. Shimkus who headed that Board, the scenario is less damning yet, in fact barely damning at all.

topsecretk9

Thank you Emailer Steve!!

He pointed out John Atravos(SP) - the one who went to lunch with Clinton recently and another nasty gay guy who likes to out people


iI'm actually supposed to be on CNN tomorrow afternoon talking about the Foley scandal. As a last minute question the producer of the segment wants me to be asked why I had the emails in July and didn't turn them over to the FBI - because, of course, that is the GOP talking point of the day (as noted before, shortly after I got the emails CREW told me they had sent them to the FBI and I figured that was the best way to handle them - silly me, since the FBI is now part of the cover-up).

topsecretk9

here's the link

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2006/10/cnn-does-republicans-bidding-because.html


--shortly after I got the emails CREW told me they had sent them to the FBI ==

Again, how did John know to contact CREW?


And obviously, John had them before they went public...

SlimGuy

Sem

The reps could fire back with a montage of purely sex scandals on the dem side.

Have you noticed that even the dems are not trying to keep abermoff as a front burner item.

Why you ask.

They have their own bigger version that has been so nicely kept for the most part out of the dems friens in the MSM.

Can you say Millberg-Weiss?

verner

Yeah Clarice, a damned liar and a dem shill who got scrubbed from google-per the freepers-before all of this got started.

Makes ya wonder. I can't see that anyone who has Come forward is not a democrat shill, connected to one, or, in the case of the LA kid, exploited by one.

It's about time to write a J'accuse to ABC news. I'm going to my shelf to pull out the Zola! LOL. And maybe I should send a hint to Mr. Andrew Sullivan--he has a much larger audience than any of us. Maybe since he has now come to the realization that Foley wasn't exactly in the closet--and had a long term BF, his opinions have changed a little.

Semanticleo


Can you say, Denny Hastert?

"There was no better object lesson in the case against earmarks than the Prairie Parkway Corridor, pushed by none other than Denny Hastert. This new highway, designed to connect the counties west of Chicago to the metropolis itself, had neither the support of the public nor the Illinois Department of Transportation....But the Prairie Parkway did offer one important convenience: It was located just over a mile from the property owned by Hastert's trust.

....In December of 2005, four months after the signing of the new Federal Highway Bill containing the $207 million inserted by Hastert for construction of the nearby Prairie Parkway, the 138 acres held by the trust were sold to a developer as part of planned 1600 home housing development. The trust received $4,989,000 or $36,152 an acre for the parcel of which 62.5 percent or $3,118,000 went to Hastert. Klatt and Ingemunson also did well. Their profit equaled 144 percent of their original investment. Hastert, however, received six times what he had paid for his investment, a profit equal to 500 percent of his original investment."

http://www.tnr.com/user/nregi.mhtml?i=w061002&s=lillyornstein100606

clarice

From: Concerned Pages [mailto:concerned_pages@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 10:53 PM
To: editor@americanthinker.com
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] STATEMENT FROM CONCERNED PAGES RE TYSON VIVYAN


In light of the following communication, CNN has cancelled Tyson Vivyan's appearances scheduled for Friday, October 6, 2006, on Larry King Live and Paula Zahn due to concerns of their Ethics and Legal Departments. Fox News has also cancelled Vivyan's appearance on Weekend Live. Rush Limbaugh today mentioned our communication during his broadcast available at the following link: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_100606/content/truth_detector.guest.html.

This message is sent by former Page colleagues of Tyson Vivyan ("Vivyan"). As a threshold matter, we write based on years of personal knowledge of and experience with Vivyan. Were a proper forum to determine that Mark Foley engaged in unethical behavior that resulted in some illegality, we would freely join in calling for his punishment. Notwithstanding the demons that Mark Foley must face as an individual and a betrayer of the public trust, we believe that Vivyan is an extremely uncredible source, that his various stories are at best gross exaggerations, and that he is generally bent on causing unfounded harm to the United States Congress and its Page program while bringing himself media attention. With all former Pages, we stand ready and willing to assist authorities in any investigation of Mark Foley’s conduct. But we speak now about Vivyan and the following important points:

<> He IMed for 3-4 weeks with an unidentified stranger who he claims repeatedly made sexual advances and other perverse comments to him. When he supposedly found out the screenname was Mark Foley's, he continued to talk to him despite the 3-4 weeks of solely sexual comments.

<> He has a lot in common with Mark Foley and it would be a surprise if his contact with Mark Foley was mere happenstance.

<> The IMs he provided to MSNBC reveal that he laments that he will not “be seducing in Palm Beach anytime soon. :-(”

<> He has neglected to inform the public and media about the full content of his FBI interview, in which the FBI agents told him that based on his story nothing illegal had occurred.

<> He is a self-described liberal Democrat who has repeatedly blamed “the Republican leadership” and “typical Republican tactics” for everything touching on this scandal without a shred of support for his claims.

<> We can attest that Vivyan has repeatedly bragged to fellow former Pages about his media involvement in this matter. He has asked for all media contacts to all Pages to be sent to him. He has literally acted as a media agent promoting himself. He has referred to himself privately as “a media princess.” He has noted his need to “improve my performance.” And he has brainstormed ways in which his media involvement could be parlayed into financial gain without undermining his credibility.

Vivyan claims he received a random instant message one day in the Summer of 1997 from "Maf54." He said he had no idea who the person was but is certain that the conversation "turned sexual almost immediately." Nevertheless, Vivyan claims, he continued to talk to the anonymous predator for 3-4 weeks before finally finding out that it was indeed Mark Foley. One question is how did he come to decide it was Mark Foley after the 3 weeks of explicit messaging. After all, Vivyan claimed on Nancy Grace that Mark Foley was very careful to never identify himself as congressman or Foley but would only "respond to Mark." In the same breath, Vivyan claims he had little or no contact or knowledge of Mark Foley during the time he was a Page. So, if Mark Foley wouldn't identify himself ever by full name or position and Vivyan wasn't familiar with Mark Foley, how exactly did Vivyan decide in the fourth week of dirty messaging that his partner was Mark Foley? Today, during one stop on the whirlwind interview circuit, Vivyan now claims, via the AP, that “he figured the person had to be on Capitol Hill, and began looking up initials in a congressional guide. He said that when he found Foley's initials — MAF, born in 1954 — he realized who it was.” The detailed and changing nature of the daily developments in his story from ten years ago casts doubt.

It is also true that none of Vivyan's Page colleagues would question our assertion that Mark Foley was a likely focus for Vivyan as a politically interested Page who is also a gay man. There's no need to take our word for it. Simply review Vivyan's MySpace profile, where you'll find he describes himself as "Orientation: Bi." See http://www.myspace.com/ty1066. Vivyan is at least partially in the closet, as his IM conversation with Mark Foley made clear, (he was just divorced in the past two years), and he is, therefore, a politically engaged tortured soul. There is plenty of common ground between Vivyan and Mark Foley. This speaks first to his willingness to engage in conversation with Mark Foley through 3-4 weeks of purported predatory messaging and also to the substantial likelihood that he knew exactly who he was talking to. But, more importantly, it reveals some of the psychological conditions underlying his current overt and extreme need for media attention.

Additionally, Vivyan has claimed on Nancy Grace that he was a victim of Mark Foley, who was intimidated by Foley's position and his own youth into remaining silent for a decade. However, no one has questioned why this shrinking victim initiated an IM conversation with Foley on August 19, 2004, according to the text of the IM conversation he provided to MSNBC. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15132294/page/2/. Why would he contact Mark Foley for conversation some seven years after the initial victimization? And if that contact was in furtherance of having a high-placed buddy, why would Vivyan send Mark Foley an IM bemoaning the loss of his job because "i don't think i'll be seducing in Palm Beach anytime soon. :-(" See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15132294/page/2/ (note that West Palm Beach is Foley's home, see conversation of Tue Jan 18 15:47:06 2005). (One could also wonder why MSNBC and others would make so much of an IM conversation between a man in his mid-twenties and Mark Foley.)

The O'Reilly Factor led with Vivyan by explaining that he had been interviewed by the FBI on the morning of October 3, 2006. He explained that he told the FBI a general overview of the Page program and that he then gave them the details of his interactions with Mark Foley. What he failed to mention, and to be clear Rita Cosby did ask, is whether the FBI agents who interviewed him gave any indication of whether his story could or would constitute illegal activity or conduct. Indeed, the FBI did give him an assessment on this issue: They told him based on his story and information that there did not appear to be anything illegal that had occurred. See MSNBC Video at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15132294/ (Rita Cosby asks have you talked to the FBI and what was there reaction; Vivyan responds he did talk to them but gives no indication of their reaction, instead changing subject).

There is also the important point to be made that Vivyan is clearly on a political mission. CNN provided in its news piece on Vivyan's story that he is a self-described "liberal Democrat." The mission he is on is evidenced by much of his own commentary over the past few days. In the Rita Cosby interview, Vivyan attempted to criticise the Republican-led Congress using the treasured Page program as a political football. He said the focus should be on the misconduct of individual members and not the Pages or the Page program. He reasoned that the focus was shifted to Pages by a "knee jerk reaction" that was a result of "typical Republican tactics doing everything that they can to make sure that someone else other than a distinguished member of their party is taking the blame for doing something wrong." When Rita Cosby asked whether he had been contacted by Foley about this matter, Vivyan responded that he had heard of others being intimidated. He suggested: "The question of course is going to be at hand is Foley doing

this or is it members of the Republican leadership who are trying to save face before the elections come November." The blatant political focus of Vivyan's conclusions provides insight into his motivation.

Then there is the question surrounding his media involvement in this matter. Vivyan claimed on Nancy Grace that he is a victim coming forward after years of silence in fear. Yet the facts show that Vivyan is shining in the media spotlight. FOX NEWS sent a mass email out to the former Pages of the class of 1996-1997 requesting someone to appear on The O'Reilly Factor. The email went out at 5:00 p.m.

Jane

So what's worse in the scheme of things: conspiring to bring down an elected politician or hot chatting via IM?

clarice

Indeed. Being rational in an insane world can--well--drive one crazy.

Re Vivyan didn't someone point out the other day how unlikely was his claim that he'd received IMs so far back? That this was a more recent innovation?

This reminds me of the overheated crap about Karr that so many fell for--when it was perfectly obvious he was nuts, not a maniacal killer of Jon Benet Ramsey. Now, it turns out he was not under arrest for any offense in Thailand, had nothing to do with the murder and even the misdemeanor charge in California which would never have resulted in an extradition request was minor and lacked evidence. PHEH

SunnyDay

Fordham lawyered up.

verner

Walter:

Personally: Better than many.

Politically: Not so great.


Walter, please don't take any offense at this statement, but so was Hitler to a lot of people.

I thinks the days of politics played by gentleman's agreement are gone. I simply can not imagine Nancy Pelosi being friends with a republican in the same way that Reagan and Tip O'Neil got along. Those two had bitter partisan fights, but they also had a genuine affection for each other.

I think Joe Lieberman is still old school. But the new crop of leaders in the democrat party? They are ape shit crazy, and so blinded by hatred that it is scary. I can see it in Pelosi's face.

PeterUK

""Here's my very simple idea for a Democratic campaign ad:

-The GOP's 1994 "Contract with America" appears on the screen.

-As the camera focuses in on the Contract's preamble, we can hear Republican House members reciting the words:

[W]e intend to act "with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right." To restore accountability to Congress. To end its cycle of scandal and disgrace. To make us all proud again of the way free people govern themselves."

"God", Cement? You have just been ACLUed,get your theocratic advertisement away from the eyes of the people.

PeterUK

Verner,
Hitler also adored his Alsation bitch Blondi, teaching her tricks and having a bombproof kennel built for her at Berchtesgarten.It is said he taught her to sing Nazi Party songs and fed her a meat free diet.
Interestingly Hitler banned hunting with dogs with exceptions for Hermann Goering and the like.
Hitler would have fitted in marvelously with today's left,if you can only get them to wear ruritanian uniforms.

Surely, you must be joking

Verner: "I thinks the days of politics played by gentleman's agreement are gone. I simply can not imagine Nancy Pelosi being friends with a republican in the same way that Reagan and Tip O'Neil got along. "

PeterUK: "Hitler would have fitted in marvelously with today's left..."

Irony is truly dead.

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Wilson/Plame