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October 14, 2006

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Extraneus

If we draw a line through the past few years' data points and extrapolate into the future, by all indications we're going to be confronted with quite an Islamic problem at some point, exacerbated greatly by our willingness to allow political correctness to supercede free speech. And if it's not dealt with in a pretty brutal and definitive fashion, I don't think it's unreasonable to fear that our kids will be confronting an even worse Islamic problem. This admittedly isn't an original point. The only reason I bring it up in the present conversation is that I can't really see the Democrats ever joining the Republicans in an American response to this. Sooner or later, there will probably be some really terrible terrorist events, to which most Americans will instinctively get belligerent in response, and the Democrats will strategize over how to defeat the enemy. The only problem is, the enemy will be the Republicans.

I hope I'm wrong about this.

Patton

On Harriet Myers, I am sure we will never know the truth, but I suspect she was a set up from the start.

Bush and Rove knew the Democrats wanted a big fightand needed to be seen as standing up to him...having the fight over Myers, took a lot of wind out of the opposition sails when it came to Alito.

By comparison, Alito wasn't easy to fight about and everyone was tired of arguing over a court nominee..we had the fight with Myers, now let's move on.

At this level of politics, you have to be thinking 5 moves ahead of where the game is now. Bush probably already knew what he was going to say when Harriet withdrew before he even nominated her.

Rick Ballard

MayBee,

The real, real truth on immigration is reflected by the absolute paucity of tangible support by the Tancretins for Randy Graf down in AZ-08. Giffords (the Dem) is an Emily's Lister and could be beaten - if a real Tancretin movement existed. The immigration puritans cost the Reps a seat and got a pure lib in exchange.

That'll teach 'em. Whoever 'em is.

anonymous

Only in the twisted mind of a Republican could the murder of children and old men and women be seen as a humanitarian act.

And if you like reading books so much, try reading a few that might challenge your ideological beliefs.

Good luck.

clarice

Here's something else that'll blow your mind, anonymous..why treating health care as an essential human right will make health care more expensive, poorer quality and harder to get.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1017/p09s01-coop.html

(Hint:It's not because the author and I are eveil, it's just that this is basic economics--proven to be true everywhere state provided health care has been enacted.)

Sue

I thought anonymous was leaving us...

Semanticleo

"I will continue to vote republican."
SUE--

"Even if Barney and Barbara are the only ones behind me, I will continue to pound my skull
on the Iraq Gong,." (paraphrased)
GWB=

MayBee

And if you like reading books so much, try reading a few that might challenge your ideological beliefs.

Well, it isn't a book, but two weeks ago I went to the Yasukuni shrine. Yes, it "challenged" my beliefs about the Great East Asian War (known to many as WWII).
I learned there that in 1939, FDR decided he wanted to go to war, so he did everything within his power to force Japan into attacking the US.
I learned that the stubborn Chinese refused to agree to the Japanese terms in Nanjing, so the Japanese were forced to go in and solve the problem. No, don't worry, all the Japanese soldiers were issued a stern warning not to commit war crimes. But those Chinese villagers, they just did not listen.
I read incident after incident that drew the Japanese in to defending themselves on Chinese and Philippine soil.

I felt very challenged, thank you.

DRF

Lesley
That Barone qoute is from his blog.
May 3 06 "Numbers From Ohio" Last sentence.
I to am one of the plodding dull dutiful
people. In fact my family is full of them.
The idea that they are going to stay home because the drive by media says something or that Mark Foley wrote some emails is to have a total and complete lack of understanding about the American people. Can not wait for election day.

PeterUK

"And if you like reading books so much, try reading a few that might challenge your ideological beliefs."

Oh dear anonymous,you aren't plugging your book "Trolling for Pleasure and Profit" again are you?

Sue

Come on Leo. I expect better come backs from you.

TexasToast

Isn't it interesting - most of us view ourselves as the "reasonable center". I know that on this board I'm probably viewed as the loquacious troll, but I'm probably a good bit to the right of the "drop ins". I grew up in the Baptist church, so I've seen my share of personal testaments of faith. They are genuine heart-felt testaments - not at all insincere or craven. Still, I have to ask each of you claiming to be the center - why do you reserve all your ammunition for the democrats?

JM Hanes

Maybee:

"I felt very challenged, thank you."

The silver lining in reading posts from folks like anonymous is getting to read replies like yours!

Sue

why do you reserve all your ammunition for the democrats?

I didn't, not until 2004. If you have to ask, you are not as close to the center as you claim.

SunnyDay

If only we were so fortunate.

Rick Ballard


"why do you reserve all your ammunition for the democrats?"

Big, fat, stupid, slow moving targets draw fire. Especially when they fly the al Queada flag.

Rick Ballard

Sara (Squiggler)

I wish someone would explain to me what the hell is so screwed up about the immigration debacle? You got your damn fence that was so damn important. The fact that most of you have never even been near the southern border except at a border crossing (if that) and have no idea how stupid spending all the fence money really is, drives me insane. But you got your fence, so why the hell don't you want to willingly move on to the President's other four of his five steps? Progressive steps. Fence, stiff penalties for emloyers and then deal with the illegals already here. I just do not get it and neither does anyone else who actually lives down here in the shaddow of that border, which runs right behind where I live in an area absolutely impossible to fence, but full of foot paths and backcountry access. Demand we stop giving free health care and reduced tuition to illegals. Do not let anyone who is not legal enter school or get a job. Half the people I know go to Mexico for medicine, dental, eye examines, and other services that are provided at 1/10th the cost just a few miles away in San Diego. And stop requiring bi-lingual everything. If bi-lingual ability was not an absolute requirement to get a job around these parts, maybe more legal Americans would get the job, instead of someone who speaks Spanish and barely speaks enough English to say, yes instead of si si.

And the Dubai Ports deal -- this was a good deal that would have been very beneficial to our ports. Did you just listen to idiots like Glenn Reynolds and Michelle Malkin or did you do like I did and go to the people who really know? I went to my ex boss who heads up the Baltimore Ports Commission. I picked her brain and she was 100% behind the deal. The Port of Baltimore has been her baby for 40 years and security is her biggest issue. She would never recommend a deal that she thought was remotely unsafe. She was furious at the lies and misrepresentations about the deal.

The problem with all wishy washy Republicans and people like Reynolds and Malkin and Kristol, et al, is that they think George Bush is as dumb as the dems try to paint him, which has proved again and again to be a very dumb move on their parts, while GWB runs rings around them every time. They and those who blindly follow them have brought the downfall to a party that was so much on a roll and going in all the right directions and all because when all is said and done elitists are elitists no matter an (R) a (D) or an (I). I'd like to get everyone with a master's or PhD. off the government dole. Make all those babies get out and do some real work for a change and find out what real life is all about. It should be illegal to hire anyone who ever attended an Ivy League university. Give me a guy or gal who waited tables in the daytime and trudged through night school at the city college any time. At least I know they know about work and struggle. I admire the whole Bush family because even though they've made lots of money, they each did it for themselves. Yes they sent their kids off to elite schools but they always maintained their class, unlike the Kennedy royalty whose money came from rum running and then as typical noveau riche they bought their way into some pseudo-status and fixed elections to climb to the top. I doubt anyone in the Kennedy clan ever shared an apartment with 3 other couples and had to take turns in the bathroom with the hookers who lived next door. That's how George and Barbara Bush started out with their 1st born future President even though Prescott Bush was a wealthy man and Senator.

TexasToast

Sue

I wasn't asking what you think of me. I don't claim to be the center. I do claim to be reasonable. It seems to me that the reagonable divide is telling. The democrat in Montana is challenging the Patriot Act because of its restrictions on guns! How much more democratic is it possible to be?

This is my personal opinoin - so I'd be glad to see someone refute it - but you folks seem to think all democrats are pointy headed "costers" or hippie wannabes. We aren't.

Patton

Anon spouts: ""Only in the twisted mind of a Republican could the murder of children and old men and women be seen as a humanitarian act.""

Well, since it was Harry Trumans' mind (Democrat), and a Democrat Congress, with a Democrat adminstration, you simply continue to show you boundless ignorance.

Your above comment has got to go down in the history of blogs as one of the most inane, thoughtless posts of all time.

And can you point to a single office holding liberal today that says Truman was wrong to drop the A-Bomb?? Care to test your drug addled thesis?

cboldt

-- why treating health care as an essential human right will make health care more expensive, poorer quality and harder to get --


Check out the Iraq constitution



Article 31: First: Every citizen has the right to health care. The state takes care of public health and provide the means of prevention and treatment by building different types of hospitals and medical institutions.


I agree fully with the conclusion that treating health care as "guaranteed" increases cost and diminishes quality. Further, any time a massive amount of wealth is run through a bureaucracy, it creates a wonderful target for corruption and theft.


Did anybody pick up Wolf Blitzer's teaser from Rep. Kildee? That the House Ethics Committee has another allegation of page diddling, this one not involving Foley? Kildee stressed that it was just an allegation - Wolf promised to get to the bottom of it.

Sue

We aren't.

What are you? I've been waiting for the platform that has been promised since December 05. Have you seen it? What do democrats offer? A better economy? Lower unemployment? Better national defense? Reform for SS? What do democrats stand for, besides hating Bush?

Jane

Anon spouts: ""Only in the twisted mind of a Republican could the murder of children and old men and women be seen as a humanitarian act.""\


I thought the left was pro-abortion. And don't you do it "for the good" of the mother?
Don't you see that as a humanitarian act? If not why is it the #1 litmus test of your party?

Don't you support assisted suicide Anonymous?


Sheesh you don't sound like the good democrat we know you are.

Care to regroup?

TexasToast

Have you seen it? What do democrats offer? A better economy? Lower unemployment? Better national defense? Reform for SS? What do democrats stand for, besides hating Bush?

Lets take those one at a time.

Economy - Remember the thread about deficits? You guys are the champs! I think it was Cheney who said, "Reagan taught us deficits don't matter". That's true - in the short term. But a very large number of people who have run up huge credit card balances only to move the debt to a "home equity" loan - and then lose the house - it doesn't last forever.

Unemployment? - I know you live here in Texas. Imagine our economy without the illegals. It - will - come - to - a - dead - stop.

National Defense? How about better national defence - against real threats - not countries with tenuous links to terrorism.

SS Reform? Not needed. Privatization is merely risk shifting - to the poor slob who can't read the Wall Street Journal.

Hating Bush? Hatred is rather strong - how about (the proper word escapes me)? He is the most divisive President of our time.

Sue

TT,

I take it you couldn't find the platform either.

Hatred is rather strong

No. Hatred is the correct word.

Sara (Squiggler)

Well there you have it from TT. Socialism, appeasement, a return to the Carter economic years. TT you are no more a centrist than anonymous who does nothing but parrot the word du jour of Kos and co. You claim you were raised a Baptist? I have a suggestion for you, get independent and go attend an LDS church and learn how to be self sufficient. Oh my God, a Mormon, never, right?

Go Romney in 2008.

Cecil Turner

This is my personal opinoin - so I'd be glad to see someone refute it - but you folks seem to think all democrats are pointy headed "costers" or hippie wannabes. We aren't.

Well, in the first place, many of the lefty posters here are either unabashed trolls or hypocrites like Mr Thomson above pretending to a faux bonhomie, which tend to generate intemperate responses. In the second, many of the Dems who post here are obviously pointy-headed hippie wannabes (using either some strange brand of socialist concept of justice or utopian warfare theory as justification for why all Reps are greedy or bloodthirsty, etc). So, do I think you're all that way? No. But those groups are disproportionately represented amongst Dems, and even more disproportionately represented among the Dems who post here.

Hating Bush? Hatred is rather strong - how about (the proper word escapes me)? He is the most divisive President of our time.

Yeah, and "he lied, people died" . . . we know, we know. Did you notice that none of your points there was actually for anything? (And just represented the negative of a position you ascribe to the GOP?) I did.

PeterUK

"Reagan taught us deficits don't matter". That's true - in the short term. But a very large number of people who have run up huge credit card balances only to move the debt to a "home equity" loan - and then lose the house - it doesn't last forever."

Why,who is going to repossess America?

Sue

Did you notice that none of your points there was actually for anything?

In order to provide something, democrats would have to stand for something. I have yet to see anything they actually stand for, with the exception of hating all things Bush.

boris

"Reagan taught us deficits don't matter". That's true - in the short term.

Do the math. paying interest on Reagan's defecits vs the gain in GDP due to Reagan's economic expansion.

(clue, not even close)

PeterUK

"He is the most divisive President of our time."

He also seems to by the only one you have at this time.

Your post just seems to be another party political spiel Texas Taqiya.

Sue

Bush, the most divisive president ever? Only if you ignore all evidence to the contrary. The 106th Congress...1999...

The senate: 55 republicans...45 democrats
The house: 222 republicans...211 democrats...1 independent...1 vacant

The 2000 election was won with 500+ votes.

The country has been divided fairly evenly ever since.

clarice

I'm thinking of starting and Republicans for Kerry website..Would that be so wrong?

PeterUK

Clarice,may I help?I'm not a Republican and I can't vote

SlimGuy

TT

Your comment on social security privitzation was potentially off, in that it never got far enough along to get to that detail, but if you look at the federal retirement system they have a basket of mutual funds or index funds they can choose from to put their money, it is not everybody's a daytrader.

Sue

At least ex-republican presidents keep their mouths shut when they leave office. Maybe the divisiveness comes from ex-democratic presidents being vocally critical of the current president.

Sara (Squiggler)

Bush is not the most devisive, FDR was. And Bush didn't/doesn't want to be devisive, but we have a whole segment of crybabies and sore losers in this country who vowed in Jan. 2001 to destroy the man who saved us from crazy Al Gore. You should have been shouting for joy that Bush prevailed, but instead you decided to ruin the country because the bottom line is you are America haters first. You live off this country and enjoy all its freedoms and you hate everything that has made us great.

Don't believe my on FDR? Syl said she grew up never knowing a Republican, well I never knew a Democrat until I got involved in politics and I was in my 40s. FDR died a month before I was born, but all my life I was warned about him and his socialist policies. My grandparents despised him, my parents loathed him, my minister mocked his policies and those who carried them out. My teachers spent inordinate hours instructing us on the evils of socialistic/communistic/unionized policies. Then I went off to college and suddenly the great unwashed took over and the next thing we know it is all the rage to spit on our servicemen, dump garbage on them (like happend to my husband in uniform) and women were told that it was no longer noble to raise children and be good homemakers.

richard mcenroe

Man, we need a better grade of pundit.

Every election it's the same thing, National Review says we lose, Hinderaker says we lose, etc.

Remember who the polls said our President was before election day?

WHAT has happened to make the Democrats any more electable than they weren't in 2000, 2002, or 2004?

clarice

PUK, I'd never dream of undertaking such a serious project without you at my side.

arrowhead

Now the libs don't like Harry Truman. Go figure. They absolutely doted on him in the late '60s. Remember Chicago's "America needs you, Harry Truman; Harry could you please come home."?

The libs' selective memory is incredible. Tax cuts to stimulate the economy under JFK - GOOD. Tax cuts to stimulate the economy under Reagan and GWB - BAD. Like I said, go figure!

Sara (Squiggler)

Clarice, if it hasn't been obvious, I've been in a piss-poor mood for the last three days and your idea re: Kerry is the last thing I wanted to read today.

Barney Frank

The democrat in Montana is challenging the Patriot Act because of its restrictions on guns!

I'm a licensed gun dealer. What restrictions are 'the democrat in Montana' challenging?
The Patriot Act makes no mention of firearms, to my knowledge, and has apparently never even been invoked to inspect any records of gun sales.

but you folks seem to think all democrats are pointy headed "costers" or hippie wannabes

Slight clarification; all liberals and leftists are pointy headed, not all Democrats.

sbw

The thing I find most remarkable about Democratic thought is the premise that a problem covered up is a problem solved.

Yup, Dems are compassionate. Dems are so compassionate that they are willing to commandeer money from other people to give it to the poor, not to solve the problem of poverty, but to hide it from view. That's compassion.

Myself, I always preferred counselling, training, and education. Slower, but it is a solution, not a cover-up.

SlimGuy

Sara

Sounds like a bad case of

Pelosi Majority Syndrome

Lots of Midol...repeat as necessary

sbw

You want another Democratic problem covered up is a problem solved?

Democrats believe a problem given to the United Nations is a problem solved.

clarice

Sara, we need Kerry in the running(if only for laughs), and as far as I can tell, he's the only democrat who thinks that's a good idea. We need to show the base (again) how electable he is.

SlimGuy

The bottom line on this election is similar to every midterm election, it's all about turnout.

In the primaries nationwide turnout was 15% of registered voters.

Clearly whoever generates the higher turnout will rule the day.

That is precisely why the republican side puts so much effort into the GOTV campaign.

TexasToast

Well, Cecil, Sue set out a list of her concerns - I responded to them. If I set out a "positive agenda", people like PUK will accuse me of "...another polititical party spiel."

The fact that I see no necessity for a "reform" of SS is rather conservative, n'est pas? Frankly, democratic goals are different - but you guys have been setting the agenda since 2000 when you took over full control (except for the days of Jeffords). We dont really need a "Contract with America" We have watched the Republicans stomp on it quite enough, thank you.

I think we will both agree that the issue of the day is Iraq - although you will emphisize "national security" and I will emphasize "big mistake". Iraq is what is losing you guys the center. It remains to be seen if Foley loses you the religious right.

PS
SBW

Bush ran so fast to the UN after the NoKo nuke I almost got a crick in my neck.

TexasToast

Well, Cecil, Sue set out a list of her concerns - I responded to them. If I set out a "positive agenda", people like PUK will accuse me of "...another polititical party spiel."

The fact that I see no necessity for a "reform" of SS is rather conservative, n'est pas? Frankly, democratic goals are different - but you guys have been setting the agenda since 2000 when you took over full control (except for the days of Jeffords). We dont really need a "Contract with America" We have watched the Republicans stomp on it quite enough, thank you.

I think we will both agree that the issue of the day is Iraq - although you will emphisize "national security" and I will emphasize "big mistake". Iraq is what is losing you guys the center. It remains to be seen if Foley loses you the religious right.

PS
SBW

Bush ran so fast to the UN after the NoKo nuke I almost got a crick in my neck.

Rick Ballard

Clarice,

Can we call it "Republicans for Kerry in '07"? He won't notice.

clarice

DONE!! We'll put you in charge of handling contributions, Rick.

sbw

TT, Dems never concede a point. Go to the UN and they want unilateral action. Act unilaterally and they want you to go to the UN.

The Dems have yet to admit that the Security Council was bought and paid for by Sadaam's Oil For Food money which precluded a strong statement that might have avoided the Iraq War.

The Dems have yet to admit that no action by an American since Jimmy Carter's failed agreement with the North Koreans would have meant sh*t to a tree. The only thing, if anything, the North Korean's will respond to, is action from China.

So, TT, your crick in your neck must have been caused by a double-take from your misunderstanding of the situation. Please don't play games. It's tiresome.

SlimGuy

Bush ran so fast to the UN after the NoKo nuke I almost got a crick in my neck.

Posted by: TexasToast | October 16, 2006 at 06:42 PM

Due to the six party talks, the members determined some sanction effort was needed and they argued and negotiated that for over a month prior to the test.

The issue was well formed a placed in front of the UN when the time was ripe in an expeditious manner.

The only other choice was taking the route of Cowboy diplomacy.

Clearly we are damned if we do and damed if we don't by your measurement of the situation.

Sara (Squiggler)

Saying it twice doesn't make it any more correct TT. Obviously you are a typical liberal who thinks the government is better equipped to tell you how to spend your money and to manage your money than you are yourself. So why should the rest of us suffer because of your stupidity and wishful thinking that has proved to be such a disaster. SS is a something that should have been a short term fix to a problem 75 years old.

Well go ahead and elect your democrats. And when it is the Carter years all over again with interest rates of 19%, gas lines that go on for miles, and everyone in the whole world laughing at us, or the Clinton years where Kim Jong-il bamboozled an incompetent Albright and hopeless foreign policy incompetent Bill Clinton and bin Laden mocked us as soft paper tigers and we are looking at a hole in the ground that used to be called NYC, LA, Chicago or Dallas, Atlanta, Miami, I hope you get hung by your thumbs by the enraged mob. You won't though because those still alive will only be alive because we had granite mountains to hide in to escape the radiation. And bin Laden and Kim will get what they want, to see America destroyed and bombed back to the stone age. Guess what, those who do survive will do so, not because they are soft feel good elitists, it will be the survivalists, those with military training and those who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty who will do the rebuilding. All you effete liberals and pansy leftists will be history. Maybe you'll wish that Nanny hadn't made them put so much rubber padding on the playground and sissified an entire generation. I doubt it though.

Sue

TT,

I asked for the platform that was promised. Since I know it isn't out there, I really didn't waste a lot of time waiting on you to point it out to me. The democrats have no platform, other than 1...2...3...we hate Bush. You ran on it in 04 and you are running on it again. If democrats win in November, they will have won never once stating publically what they intend to do.

Pofarmer

The fact that I see no necessity for a "reform" of SS is rather conservative,

Being short sighted does not make one a conservative.

Cecil Turner

Well, Cecil, Sue set out a list of her concerns - I responded to them. If I set out a "positive agenda", people like PUK will accuse me of "...another polititical party spiel."

Seems to me she asked:

"What do democrats stand for, besides hating Bush?"
And then you made her point even better than she did.

Pofarmer

The democrat in Montana is challenging the Patriot Act because of its restrictions on guns!

I'm a licensed gun dealer. What restrictions are 'the democrat in Montana' challenging?
The Patriot Act makes no mention of firearms, to my knowledge, and has apparently never even been invoked to inspect any records of gun sales

Typical, they even have to lie about what they are against.

boris

Italiacto!

topsecretk9

Just checking, but the lefty consensus if there might be a horse race in Alan Schlesinger and Joe Liberman?

Beautiful.

Sue

And then you made her point even better than she did.

I'm sure like a good democrat, he will tell me what they stand for just as soon as they are in control again. To do so ahead of time, will lose them the election...

OCPatriot

Internally, we have become a country deeply divided, not only by income but by religious beliefs. Bush has made no effort to bring our diverse people together, to heal the wounds; instead he has traded, through people like Karl Rove, on fostering deep divisions. Look at the numbers, split somewhat evenly, between Democrats and Republicans; between liberals and conservatives - they tell a story very different from the "mandate" that George Bush claimed.

When, and if, you take a good look at the wreckage of our country, directly attributable to Bush's views and his ignorance and his policies, it will begin to appall you; not only from a moral standpoint, but from a very practical business standpoint. The terrible thing about it is that it will continue to wreak havoc for your children and my children and for our grandchildren, into the foreseeable future.

My earlier comment was merely to say that Bush either didn't know why he went into Iraq, or lied about it, or misled himself. All were bad reasons. Then, when nothing he had used to get us into Iraq made, sense, he changed it. It's been obvious as all heck, but the AP, the Public, the Republican Party, the Democrats, all went along with it. It was the Emperors' New Clothes; everybody was then afraid to say anything for fear of being wrong, for fear (whipped up propaganda-wise by the Republicans) of being unpatriotic. Now, suddenly, the people who were so reluctant to point out how vacuous Bush's resons were, suddenly they're talking up. So they're all guilty, guilty as hell for getting us into this mess. The only way out is to create a Democratic majority; otherwsie we'll have more of the same; Bush seems adammant even as James Baker starts to campaign to withdraw our troops.

Don’t you realize that a sea change has been occurring? First James Baker, then a couple of Senators like Warner and Hagel, then the “leak” that old Father Bush hands are in dismay over the direction of the war in Iraq. They’re pumping up a campaign to change course and do exactly what Murtha has been calling for, only none of them is being called a “traitor” or a member of the “cut and run” group, as Murtha and others were. But that’s exactly what they’re proposing. And poor Andrew is being carried along on this sea change groundswell, doesn’t realize he’s being used. He’s a harbinger of others who will find themselves swept up by it, advocating that the Democrats need to step in, take some responsibility, get involved in a bi-partisan effort to reverse course. Grieve for all the men and women who were killed needlessly, grieve for those still to be killed needlessly, and, like it or not, give the Democrats a majority for the time being; even though they are wimpy, disorganized, and will become greedy in their own way soon enough.responsibility, get involved in a bi-partisan effort to reverse course.

clarice

I'm too old to waste time answering all that drivel. Let me take a quick swipe at it.
Can you show me when Hagel took a different position?
Are you under the impression that he just came to this?
Why?

Are you under the impression that he is regarded with respect by Republicans?
Where did you get that notion?


TexasToast

Sue

I told you what we "stood for" last week. why bother to repeat it?

None of you answered my question, I noticed. All the fire is aimed at the democrats. I will admit I'm not the center, but you can't.

Pofarmer

Will someone please point out to the resident lefties that "consensus" is not a position, policy, or a strategy?

arrowhead

OC - ...like it or not, give the Democrats a majority for the time being; even though they are wimpy, disorganized, and will become greedy in their own way soon enough.responsibility, get involved in a bi-partisan effort to reverse course.

This is what I'm supposed to vote for?

Reversing course may imply a direction, but it is NOT a strategy, nor is it a policy on which to build the consensus you so desire. Leaving a battlefield without securing a victory is called defeat. In this world wide war against Islamic terrorism, that is not an acceptable option, and all the hand wringing about the difficulties we continue to face in Iraq will not make it so.

JM Hanes

TexasToast:

"Isn't it interesting - most of us view ourselves as the 'reasonable center'."

Oddly enough, I didn't start out thinking of my self as a centrist, although I've always considered myself pretty reasonable.

I have a proposition for you:

In another world, on another forum, a whole group of us decided to resolve the issue by taking the test over at The Political Compass and comparing our scores. I've reposted the chart of those results over at the quiescent Quasiblog, especially in your honor, under Political Mapping. I removed the previous names for obvious reasons, but if you take the test and let me know your score, I'll plug you in and reveal my own currently undisclosed location on the map.

How about it? I could even produce a whole new chart for JOM, if enough folks were interested and willing. There were some real surprises last time out about where folks really stood in relation to each other -- even though we'd been involved in pretty intense discussions for a considerable length of time before that.

SunnyDay

The oly people I see having trouble with religion are the lefties. The rest of us are fine with it.

SunnyDay

You know, if they would proceed with a logical debate, some facts, state a position that could be argued, it would be fine. As it is they come here, insult us, try to spread their hatred, and then insult us some more when we disagree. Where did the intelligent left go? sheesh

Do you seriously think I would vote for someone who thinks like you???

JM Hanes

TT

"If I set out a 'positive agenda', people like PUK will accuse me of '...another polititical party spiel.'"

A truly emblematic answer! When pressed, what you offer is a philosophy, not a platform. Unfortunately, even if you, personally, were able -- or willing -- to articulate an actionable agenda, you'd still be hard pressed to come up with supporting evidence of intent from Democratic leadership itself.

"Still, I have to ask each of you claiming to be the center - why do you reserve all your ammunition for the democrats?"

Does this thread really read like everybody here is just thrilled to pieces with Republicans?

"Bush ran so fast to the UN after the NoKo nuke I almost got a crick in my neck."

Apparently you haven't been following the 6 party talks very closely either.

topsecretk9

Ummm...hmmmm...lets see... Weldon

...A grand jury, impaneled in Washington in May, has obtained evidence gathered over at least four months through wiretaps of Washington area cellphone numbers and has scrutinized whether Weldon received anything of value, according to the sources. They spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the investigation.

Democrats DO LIKE domestic wiretaps...only NOT the kinds that can detect Al queda plots.


...Weldon said in a prepared statement that he had done nothing wrong and would cooperate in the investigation "100 percent." Michael Puppio, a campaign spokesman, said Weldon hoped that "reliance on leaks would cease and the media would rely on facts that are verifiable."

Weldon said that the House ethics committee looked into the allegations in 2004 "and found that I had engaged in no wrongdoing." He said he was "extremely disappointed that we are discussing this topic three weeks before an election that could determine control of Congress."

And...


...Yesterday's raids of six locations in Pennsylvania and Florida were moved up in part because of leaks about the investigation late last week, according to two of the sources. Top federal prosecutors supervising the inquiry concluded early this month that they were progressing significantly on another front in the investigation and did not want to make their work public too soon by conducting searches, especially so close to the Nov. 7 elections.


...Rep. Weldon said that he never knew who his daughter's clients were. "I've never helped my daughter get anything. My kids are qualified on their own," he said.

Weldon assailed the news reports as politically motivated. He blamed a 2004 complaint filed by the liberal-leaning Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, which is led by Melanie Sloan, a former prosecutor who also has been a Democratic staff member on the House Judiciary Committee.


SO CREW has impeded the natural progress of an investigation... by engaging in Democrats favorite pastime - illegally leaking crap to the press

I seriously hope the FBI are taking a sharp close look at CREW - not only in this matter but their shady dealings in the Foley matter too. OH and in case your are wondering there is jack sh__ (or barely) on Dollar Bill Jefferson's 90 grand in deep freeze or CREW complete embarrassment for missing ALL THE shady dealing of Reid and his children


What a JOKE CREW is.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/16/AR2006101600545_pf.html

SunnyDay

Unbelievable

topsecretk9

Can anyone look up the laws surrounding non-partisan designation?

I think common citizens have legitimate gripe where CREW is concerned - especially in light on their totally lack of even catching the Harry Reiid stuff....

AND common citizens should have every right to lodge a compliant against them since they are using their non- profit to make FOIA requests with waivers -- aka TAXPAYERS AR PAYING FOR THEIR EXPENSIVE REQUESTS -

Since that is the case, seems to me Citizens with Legitimate Questions abut so-called Ethics Groups (aka JOM'ers) should be able to make a "inquiry" request...what makes them so special?

topsecretk9

Typo allowance bleg - must use preview.

Sara (Squiggler)

JMH -- I took your test. I describe myself generally as a "modified" libertarian pragmatist, economically conservative, liberal on some social issues and my actual results are Economic 2.00 and Social 0.46.

topsecretk9

MayBee

Check your email!

TexasIsHeaven

Well, it's really late and I'm supposed to be asleep already, but I just had to do the test too. Now I'm really upset. I always thought I was to the extreme right of Rush Limbaugh. My results were economic right 2.13 and social 0.21 on the right. I am so disappointed in myself...

Does this mean that I wouldn't burn all the lefties at the stake if I had the chance? I hope not.....

MayBee

Who hasn't suspected http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/16/AR2006101601339.html>this
all along?
Our European Allies, the way they criticize us for Gitmo, the way they refuse to take back their citizens from there....

Other European governments, which have been equally vocal in assailing Guantanamo as a human rights liability, have also balked at accepting prisoner transfers. A Turkish citizen who was born and raised in Germany was finally permitted to return from Guantanamo in August, four years after the German government turned down a U.S. proposal to release him.

In addition, virtually every country in Europe refused to grant asylum to several Guantanamo prisoners from China who were not being sent home because of fears they could face political harassment there. The Balkan nation of Albania agreed to take in five of the Chinese in May, but only after more than 100 other nations rebuffed U.S. pleas to accept them on humanitarian grounds, State Department officials said.

Bob

but you folks seem to think all democrats are pointy headed "costers" or hippie wannabes. We aren't.

TT it's sort of like the muslim thing... are all muslims terrorist? Well no but so far all the terrorist have been muslims!

If as you claim that there are moderate Democrats, then why do we not hear from them. Are they afraid of what happened to Lieberman?


On this site I don't remember anyone defending Foley... Republicans more often then not will not support a fellow Republican who has broken the rules. However look at what's going on with Reid and his outrageous corruption... not one word from any Democrats. So for the record here, please tell us how upset you are that Harry Reid has broken at best Senate ethic rules, and more likely has received graft beyond the level of the Abramoff scandal.

A simple YES, Harry Reid should remove himself from office until this matter is cleaned up... like Cunningham did, or a simple NO, what Reid has done is perfectly fine with you.

This is a simpler test then the one JM Hanes recommended... but I think it'll help us judge your sincerity about being somewhere near the center!

Oh and if you vote YES, then we want you to go over to the KOS and Huffington blogs and state your opinion, and report back on how your treated.

Terrye

TT:

I thought you were relatively reasonable until you bought that idiotic Lancet report. Iraq Body Count has a press release regarding the sheer insanity of the report.

As far as Bush being devisive, well whose fault is that? Everytime he has reached across the aisle he has drawn back a nub.

I was a Democrat myself and I left the party because they became obsessed with revenge and because they have nothing to offer.

I think the thing that really drove me away was the whole Bush lied people died nonsense. I can distinctly remember the 90's and there was no doubt about those weapons, the Democrats were in no way leary of CIA reports regarding Saddam's weapons. In fact Tenet was a Democrat himself. If Gore had won the election the consensus would have been the same. In fact if not for the invasion it probably still would be. The willingness of the Democrats to revise history and in the process make a difficult job in Iraq more difficult, just to make political hay drove me from the party.

You want to know who divided the country? Go look in a mirror. ONe of the people responsible will be looking right at you.

Terrye

I have no idea why that link did not work. I will try it again.

IBC

Jane

Someone should call the FBI about Harry Reid. If anyone needs to be raided, it's him.

Oh and raid his sons too.

sbw

Economic Left/Right: -0.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33

SunnyDay

What's to prevent folks like us from forming a non-profit, non-partisan ethics watchdog organization?

Paperwork, a website, mail drop, some volunteer labor... put out a newsletter...

sbs

If the discussion of religion is a must have for those who inhabit the far left, please allow me to offer something for your consideration: Islam is a religion of PIECE, the pieces of those they blow up.

SunnyDay

sbs, that was very insensitive of you. It is Christians who are to be feared. What's an occasional beheading?

Jane

What's to prevent folks like us from forming a non-profit, non-partisan ethics watchdog organization?

I think we should start one. And I nominate Clarice to run it.

sad

What did Reid do to the AP to cause them to actually report the huge profit earned from the sale of land he did not own? It is so unAPlike. I question the timing.

SunnyDay

Reuters had something yesterday too, IIRC

Nervous Harry and Howie

hit and run

My political compass reads:

Economic Left/Right: 3.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.51

TexasToast

JMH

Social -3.63
Eco -4.21

Solidly left? - but then, I didn't claim to be in the center.


PS I think going to the UN was a good thing. It can be a useful vehicle. I'm certainly not critisizing GWB for using it. I.m critisizing those who constantly attack it - until they need it.

sad

hmmmm

...Dean has been monitoring the activities of Senators Clinton, Harry Reid...

I wonder if the story just landed in the lap of the MSM? Maybe they thought it was Rove who tipped them off and decided to run with it just to spite him.

TexasToast

Bob

From what I've heard of the Reid thing, it sounds like a reporting error - nothing more. I have client's using LLCs for similar tax and liability avoidance purposes all the time.

Cunningham, OTOH, was an off the charts crook. BTW, I notice that Bob Ney isn't being told to "... resign, or else!"

sad

BTW, I notice that Bob Ney isn't being told to "... resign, or else!"

And why aren't the dems calling for his resignation?

maryrose

Ney is not running for re-election TT. Stop making moronic comments or people will get the impression you aren't very smart. Also TT you seem to have amnesia. President Bush went to the UN before the Iraq invasion. Try to keep up!

Cecil Turner

Solidly left? - but then, I didn't claim to be in the center.

Trying to recall the last time I claimed to be in the center . . . ? Gotta admit though, the Dems' fecklessness in wartime makes me a lot more anti-Democrat than I used to be.

I.m critisizing those who constantly attack it - until they need it.

Oh please. "Need" it? Going to the UN is the first step in the process (if it only worked, it'd be the last step). But pretending UN sanctions are the be-all and end-all is simply ahistorical. And if it once again becomes obvious sanctions aren't going to work, we'll be back to force or threats of force, which the UN will again most likely resist. The collective security process is somewhere between "dysfunctional" and "broken" . . . and failing to recognize that is not a virtue.

maryrose

TT; Reporting error my foot. Why is Reid hanging up the phone when people are questioning him about it? Also does Reid still have that Abramoff money he refused to return hanging around. People who live in glass houses... Culture of corruption my foot. Jefferson's local party had to dump him because Pelosi and Reid were too afraid of upsetting the the Democratic Black Caucas by cashiering his rear-end. Party of the wusses both militarily and morally and everyone knows it.

Extraneus

Economic: 4.38
Social: -0.21

jerry

You believe that with Schiavo, Miers, Dubai Ports, Immigration, Foleygate, Social Security, and even Iraq, there has been some sort of debacle.

And I am not sure how you feel about Iran, NK, or Katrina, but apparently you are just fine with those.

But with all of these ongoing debacles, what are you going to do?

Suck cock harder and faster!

Sue

Weird...but this is what I scored...

Economic Left/Right: 0.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.64

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Wilson/Plame