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January 26, 2007

Comments

Rick Ballard

TS or Sue,

Any idea on how much the transcripts would cost? I imagine that there are some pretty tight restrictions on usage - I doubt they could be web published.

clarice

Do we know how expensive they are?

lurker

Hope Judge Walton will seriously consider Libby's lawyers' motion regarding Ari Fleischer.

Rick Ballard

KGB beat you to it.

lurker

BTW, the number of signatures for "The Pledge" is now just over 20,000.

topsecretk9

--Why would Bill Harlow, for no apparent reason in this instance, qualify his statement that it was Baghdad Joe that was sent by the addendum "and his wife works over here"?--

HAY - Wait a minute...wasn't this BEFORE Novak called? So exactly why did Harlow wait to look up her so-called status for Novak - but never cared to or bothered to once all that time before?

This makes his Novak call back look hinkier doesn't it?

Cecil Turner

Oh-and you got about 1 weekend left for your dream that Libby never leaked or authorized a leak, since that's exactly what's Fleischer going to testify to on Monday!

Heh. And Fitz, whose indictment overstated every single witness's statement so far, decided to downplay Ari's because . . . oh, whatever.

Remember back when this was all about how the VP "twisted intelligence" to make the case for war? How did that one stack up against the Jan 24 CIA report in Martin's testimony?

Then it was about how Karl Rove engineered a punitive conspiracy to out Plame for revenge? 22 indictments? 24 "business hours"?

Now we're downgraded to "Libby lied because he claimed he didn't remember" . . . and the first four witnesses can't remember either. Yeah, I'm sure the grand conspiracy will be unmasked on Monday, and you'll finally get a Fitzmas worth celebrating. Get back to me when some part of this actually happens.

Enlightened

Oooooohhhh. Jason is throwing out deadlines again - we have one week guys before the New Saviour Of Leftwing Loonthink exposes the WH for who they really are! Ari Fleischer to the rescue! And he might even suck Rove into the vortex and FINALLY get that indictment so Jason can slither about and get a little sun to help that creeping fungi problem.

lurker

Hey, guys, what are your bets of the remaining Fitz witnesses having memory problems?

clarice

I heart Cecil.

topsecretk9

Rick

I haven't the foggiest except that I think they are pretty pricey -- like a dingbat bigshot I offered to pony up once, until some mentioned the high hundreds (or maybe even more)

I shut up quick.

lurker

OT from Instapundit:

NEWS FROM AFGHANISTAN: "In the south, NATO commandos are having success in finding out where Taliban commanders are, and killing or capturing them. There are about three dozen Taliban commanders in the south, and if enough of them can be taken out of action, this years Taliban offensive will collapse. . . . Sensing weakness, more warlords are publicly denouncing the Taliban, and urging young men not to join up."
Patrick R. Sullivan

'I was right about the concentration factor,wasn't I?'

If it had been Paz visiting, we wouldn't be here now. Libby wouldn't have gotten anything done for weeks.

clarice

Everyonenaturally prefers the strong horse (except, say, Kerry and Carter), lurker.

Don

Look I'm not really interested arguing the evidence b/c all that really matters is what the jurors say at this point, but your spin's a little strong there.

Cathie Martin-the witness closely to Libby so far-had no memory problem stating she told Libby about Wilson's wife. Nor did her story change.

Fleischer is apparently going to say that Libby told him about Plame and to keep it on the QT. Russert's apparently going to deny telling Libby.

Spin it away however you want; that ain't good for your boys story.

Enlightened

Hay is right TS9. Harlow's call with Novak makes no sense if the LAT article correctly relayed Martin's testimony. Well, I guess it makes sense in Donthink.

lurker

Donald Sensing:

“Killing is the sine qua non of war.”

Dan S

lurker,

I'd rate the chances that 50% of the rest of the prosecution witnesses will express memory problems at... 100%

I'd put it at 80% that 100% of them will.

It's been YEARS.

Sara (Squiggler)

Someone pointed out that one way the MSM misleads is with word usage such as using charges instead of allegations. This is a tactic the left are pros at. You hear them all the time talk about "the children" being sent to be slaughtered in Iraq when in fact the average age of U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq is 30. I don't know about the worlds the left lives in but in my world 30 is not a child. By the time I was 30, I had 2 kids and had bought and sold two houses and I wasn't in the habit of asking permission from a parent.

Mischaracterization of the audience and mischaracterization of the facts thru outright lies, lies of omission or deliberate choice of words meant to inflame, it boils down to the same thing ... you cannot trust the news. Do your own research and go to the source.

Sue

Rick,

I doubt we could afford them. They are going to be fairly expensive. There is probably a surcharge and then so much per page. A 1 hour depostion will cost you about $300, in small town Texas. I can't even begin to guess what the cost in DC would be.

jerry

"Tonight's menu made by these old hands and increasingly feeble brain:

onion soup with cheese souffle
Green apple risotto with seared foie gras and fig and balsamic wine reduction

Mini beef wellingtons with potato gratin and asparagus
Berry cobbler with shortbread"


Wow, that sounds great, incredible effort for one evening.

lurker
Everyonenaturally prefers the strong horse (except, say, Kerry and Carter), lurker.

That's why we need to sign "The Pledge".

Hugh Hewitt is wondering if McConnell is wavering because of McCain's resolution. Hell, Bush and Al-Maliki already had benchmarks defined.

Cathie Martin-the witness closely to Libby so far-had no memory problem stating she told Libby about Wilson's wife. Nor did her story change.

Cathie Martin did change her story. She got confused on the dates.



lurker,

I'd rate the chances that 50% of the rest of the prosecution witnesses will express memory problems at... 100%

I'd put it at 80% that 100% of them will.

It's been YEARS.

I agree. I don't know why Byron York thinks that Tim Russert's testimony is going to be a major bombshell.

Clarice's meal sounds divine.


Enlightened

Oh, okay. Ari Fleischer lies about seeing the memo on AF1 on July 7 - will be impeached by the witness that saw him reading it, which is where he found out about our gal Val. He refuses to comment on whether he returned Novak's call of the 7th.

Yeah my money's on him to be an un-impeachable witness.

clarice

Yup--I wanted to make it special--my editor who owns a small interest in a Cal vineyard brought some of their great wine, and the guests include some old friends I haven't been able to see for a long time.

Dan S

Well, Russert has proven to be very... slick.

But I doubt he will be allowed to get away with it on the stand, like he has been on the air. I hope he tries.

lurker

Think James Webb is a one-time senator?

From A Naval Academy Graduate To Senator Webb

Sara (Squiggler)

Sounds to me like everyone, CIA, State and OVP were all embarrassed to be associated with Joe Wilson. They all seem to think he is a complete dunderhead.

Sara (Squiggler)

Clarice, your menu is impressive and so must be your cooking skills. Your guests are fortunate to be your guests and friends.

PeterUK

Don doesn't seem to realise that the trial before him is not his Fantasy Dream Trial.

lurker

Except Larry Johnson, Jason, DKOS, EW, ...

Sue

5. Thank you for no strange references to black people, same I can't say for one other poster here

You noticed that too?

topsecretk9

--Sounds to me like everyone, CIA, State and OVP were all embarrassed to be associated with Joe Wilson.--

Me too Sara.

Since Valerie did indeed facilitate Joe's hasty trip - I wonder if she is the one who was supposed to, but conveniently didn't to get the non-disclosure agreement - which has been a mighty embarrassing to CIA - and certainly explains Cheney notes on the OP-ED - what kind a clown show we operating?

This cold be why she was put on unpaid leave for a year starting in July 2003.

Javani

Clarice:

I went over to TalkLeft. Some good legal posts there, though the disturbing was the wholsale absence of concern whether the FBI interviews plus additional GJ interrogations might smell of civil rights violations at the time Fitz knew no crime had been committed. Also, one or two theorized faith in the government that she must be "covert" if the govt. is pursuing that. She no longer works in the CIA..if she were covert Fitz wouldn't be bandying that, and charging Armitage? Some people!

Most of the talk is about the "classified" provision of the general non-disclosure agreement signed by all officials. Seems clear to me Fitz' focus is Plame was allegedly "classified" and by contract can be disciplined. Well, if Libby feared that, he wouldn't have committed the numerous other leaks he must have done in his career!

TCO

Tom, why do you waste so much time criticizing critics rather than trying to analyze what we are learning itself during the trial? It's almost like you lack the intellectual cajones to look for an answer as hard as you can, whereever the chips fall, as to whether Libby lied.

Javani

"Yeah my money's on him to be an un-impeachable witness."

I don't know what the purpose of Ari is for the prosecution. If he talked to reporters it would enhance the idea "all the reporters know" had plausibility. But if he talked to Libby about Wilson & Wife that would be material for establishing the "Libby knew" element.

Rick Ballard

I wonder if there's a double secret 'Oops!' clause in the NDA that covers Fleischer, Armitage and Harlow's disclosures? If there is an 'Oops!' clause, why didn't it work for Deutsch? It worked for Berger.

Is there a secret prosecutor's handshake that wasn't disclosed to Libby?

TCO

From Martin (NYT report):

"She also described an incident in which his behavior appeared less than noble. She recounted a senior staff meeting at the White House in which Stephen J. Hadley, the deputy national security adviser, expressed anger after receiving a query from Andrea Mitchell of NBC. Ms. Mitchell had heard that the White House was blaming the C.I.A. for causing the president to inaccurately say in his State of the Union address that the British government had confirmed Iraq’s efforts to buy uranium in Africa.

Ms. Martin made it clear earlier on Thursday that it was Mr. Libby who had gone out of his way to take on the task of speaking to Ms. Mitchell about that issue.

But at the July meeting in the White House, she said, Mr. Hadley made a point of turning around and looking directly at her as if to signify he knew she was Ms. Mitchell’s source.

Ms. Martin was asked by Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the prosecutor, whether she was, in fact, the source.

“No,” she said.

Mr. Fitzgerald asked what Mr. Libby was doing when Mr. Hadley was all but accusing her.

“He was looking down at the floor,” she said. "

---------


What a worm. Does this sound like the kind of guy who tells the truth and lets the chips fall where they may. A moral ballsy guy who will tell his own man that he chopped down the cherry tree? Or a worm, who will fib a bit if he think he can get away with it?

sad

Cathie Martin did change her story. She got confused on the dates.

As I ecall she changed the dates based on the date a particular show aired. Is it possible she Tivoed the show and watched it several days later, meaning her original timeline was correct?

PeterUK

Patrick R,Sullivan,
There is only one way to settle this,Cruz and Paz are going have to mud wrestle.
The rest of you gentlemen,no groaning in the ranks.

Sue

Didn't at some point Fleischer talk to a reporter named Dickerson? While still in Africa?

boris

inaccurately say in his State of the Union address that the British government had confirmed Iraq’s efforts to buy uranium in Africa

Another false premise claim. No wonder TCO quotes it, that's his stock in trade as well.

The SOTU accurately included the British claim that Iraq sought to acquire yellocake from Niger. That inclusion was to have been removed because it could not be independently confirmed but IIRC it wasn't the CIA that slipped up.

Another TCO stock in trade, accusations of guilt based on his hypersensitive perception of pettiness. Another princess and the pea if you ask me.

topsecretk9

Sue

He did and Dickerson wondered why he was never subpoenaed (or question too, I think).

Come to think of Phelps(sp) and Royce of Newday weren't either and wondered the same thing.

Sue

At this point, the MSM is reaching for anything that will sustain there original story. One they backed away from when Armitage revealed himself. I guess now that the game is on they have decided to pick up their gloves and catch a few flies.

Cecil Turner

Cathie Martin-the witness closely to Libby so far-had no memory problem stating she told Libby about Wilson's wife. Nor did her story change.

It didn't? Per Joyner : "'I first thought everything happened the week of July 7' but months later realized it couldn’t have happened that way because recognized Wilson’s name on MTP." And apparently that epiphany happened some time after Jan, 04, the second time she told the FBI the July 7th date. Coached much? Never!

Fleischer is apparently going to say . . .

"Libby ordered me to out Plame! And I did!" Again, get back to me . . .

Tom, why do you waste so much time criticizing critics rather than trying to analyze . . .

Heh. You mean like telling how the NYT can't get the story straight (and providing the straight story)? Yeah, Tom is soooo biased.

From Martin (NYT report):

Coulda stopped right there. Didn't pay much attention to the first part of the post, didja?

Sue

He did and Dickerson wondered why he was never subpoenaed (or question too, I think).

I'm wondering the same thing. I think Fleischer thought he was the 2 in the 2x6 and that would make sense if 1 was Adam Levine.

topsecretk9

I loved the description of the C-Span and EW highlighting the plan to go on MTP to get their story out (yeah, this is not in the Lanny Davis's playbook either - just bushies)

Anyways, what a RIOT when York pointed out the inconvenient tidbit that um...yeah, Joe Wilson went on MTP to get his story out. Ahem.

Enlightened

Javani - I was being sarcastic about Ari in rebuttal to the Donthink pervading the board...:}

Ari has some real es'plainin to do.

Novak called him before he allegedly had lunch with Scooter on the 7th July.

Ari says Scooter told him at lunch on the 7th.

Ari not a Novak Source. Scooter not a Novak source.

But interestingly enough, Novak 's column is almost verbatim what Ari told the GJ he heard from Scooter at lunch on the 7th.

So we know Armitage told Novak. Novak printed what Armitage allegedly told him. Ari knew EXACTLY what Armitage told Novak on 7 July and attributes it to Scooter.

What a stinky rat I smell.

topsecretk9

Sue

Good point.

semenfilledcleo

Plus ca change...


TCO -

The way you describe yourself -- not having any original ideas yourself, but fond of trying to disrupt the "echo chamber" even when you have no contrary evidence to offer showing that any consensus therein is wrong -- makes you sound exactly like the rest of us tedious, uninformed, obnoxious leftist trolls that wander by and drop steaming piles in the comment sections to disrupt and derail the discussion when it becomes politically embarassing.

But I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

-- January 13, 2007 at 08:39 PM

Although for some reason I find you much sexier when you post using your BTW name (or Don, or Pete, or heck even Martin).

Enlightened

Compare:

Ari:
For example, then-White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer recalls that over lunch on July 7, the day before Libby’s meeting with Miller, Libby told him, “[T]he Vice-President did not send Ambassador Wilson to Niger . . . the CIA sent Ambassador Wilson to Niger. . . . [H]e was sent by his wife. . . . [S]he works in . . . the Counterproliferation area of the CIA.” (II-545-47.)

Novak sourced by Armitage:

During a long conversation with a senior administration official, I asked why Wilson was assigned the mission to Niger. He said Wilson had been sent by the CIA's counterproliferation section at the suggestion of one of its employees, his wife. It was an offhand revelation from this official, who is no partisan gunslinger.

http://www.needlenose.com/node/view/2716


So what, we are to believe that Scooter quoted Armitage verbatim to Ari who in turn quoted that verbatim to Novak who went to print with it, although Novak called Ari BEFORE Scooter allegedly popped off to Ari?

How else would Scooter/Ari/Novak have virtually the same story?

Rick Ballard

Enlightened,

Wasn't Ari working from almost the same INR memo as Armitage?

Sue

For anyone thinking Fleischer is going to do more than say Libby and he discussed Wilson/Plame over lunch, keep in mind Fitzgerald has not charged anyone with anything but false statements, perjury and obstruction. If Fleischer had the goods on Libby/Cheney/Rove, your Fitzmas would have already arrived.

Enlightened

Is that the same meo Ari lied about and said he did not read on AF1, but was observed reading it?

I don't see that exact string of words in that memo.

I'm getting the impression that Scooter is right - they were out to get him. Ari is quite obviously lying about who said those words at lunch on the 7th. I think Ari said it to Scooter. Not the other way around.

kate

Now, wait. I thought Cathy Martin was to be the bombshell witness. Now it's Ari. Then it will Russert.

After that we will hear that Cheney will fall apart on the witness stand under grueling grilling by their brilliant hero, Fitz!

Martin

Who's the conspiracy theorist now Turner? Cathie Martin-who still works at the White House!-has been coached to slant her testimony against Libby!

You're so deep in your fantasy world I'm beginning to think you're really Dick Cheney posting here.

And now its trash the NYT day. Of course it was Libby who was spending all that time with an NYT reporter.

This tension between keeping Libby blameless while trashing all other administration officials can't continue to hold, can it?

Next up: Fleischer. Gee-the guy who was official White House spokesman for most of Bush's first term is a liar and a sellout and you can't believe a word he says!

A brilliant strategy. I'm really mystified as to why Bush won't pardon this pitiful clown just to stop the bleeding.

Enlightened

Sue - The TO thinktank that ocassionally smells up the place, has intimated another DEADLINE of Rove's Imminent Indictment, or Scooters Imminent Conviction, Or GWB's Imminent Impeachment, - we have the weekend to mull over the FACT that Ari is going TKO Scooter.

I can see exactly why Ari needed immunity from prosecution - he's probably a leaker, and definitely a liar.

lurker

Because pardoning Libby at this point would not be a good political move. Not yet.

Extraneus

Someone up-thread talked about "cojones," and it got me thinking about who in this whole game has any, and that's Bush and Cheney. Every Democrat, from top to bottom, using every weasel trick in the book, has displayed their utter cowardice in the face of the Islamist threat. Bush and Cheney have not. They've been overly PC about the reality of it, but they haven't been cowards.

I used to think this Libby trial was a sideshow, but it's not. The fact is, Wilson gave the cowards a fig leaf with which to obscure the fact that they actually don't have much worth hiding. When the choice is between fighting and Dhimmitude, guess who'll be bowing to Mecca or paying the jizya tax while the rest of us are fighting. Bush and Cheney, or the other side?

Sorry for the metaphors, but really, how can we describe these people with the contempt they deserve?

Ok, back to our program... None of the prosecution's star witnesses remember Cheney or Libby ever focusing on Plame, only the harm that Wilson's op-ed could do -- and has done -- to national security.

Enlightened

"Trash the NYT day"

BWAAAAAAAHHHHHHHAHHHHH.

That's it. Martini number one is on board.

Rick Ballard

Sue,

I'm betting on a very bad case Arkansas Alzheimer's on everything but the little piece Ward & Connely dangled in front of Fitz in order to get immunity.

Enlightened,

A paraphrase of the counterproliferation language was in the memo. It hasn't been disclosed (to my knowledge) as having been mentioned or known by any of the first four witnesses.

kate

Wow, the poor left is pathetic. They've gone from 22 indictments, to 5 senior government officials indicted to VP Cheney as unindicted co-conspirator, to the coming (it's coming!) indictment of Rove.

Now they are reduced to rooting for Ari against Scooter. Talk about diminishing expectations.

Martin

Why not now Lurker??? Bush can't sink any lower in the polls can he.

At 28% you're down to people like Hewitt and Turner who wouldn't blink an eye of disapproval if Bush peeled off his mask to reveal he's really a half man/half camel developed by mad Iranian scientists!

At what point is it a good political move Lurker?

Martin

Kate a lot has changed since the days of 22 indictments-like majority control of both houses of Congress for one.

The left doesn't need your pity.Thanks. Save it for Libby's wife.

Enlightened

So I think the defense should ask Ari -

To the best of your recollection (wink, wink)why do you remember Scooter Libby saying these exact words, which you previously testified to? Have you ever heard those words, or that statement prior to your lunch with Scooter on July 7? And was it similar to the recorded message left on your voice mail by Robert Novak earlier that day? OBJECTION!

No wonder Ari needs immunity.


Enlightened

Oh yeah - those polls that said how many people were against the surge?

What was that again Lurker over 20,000 signatures for the surge?

Guess those poll takers missed that group.

Leftwing Polls - Priceless.

Sue

there was a whole month in which you forgot you knew.

One of my favorite lines. Wells addressing Martin. ::grin:: He did a very good job of getting in his memory defense.

If the defense lawyer, eventually we'll get to it maybe after the case, if defense lawyer gave some way it would be helpful.

I am surprised that this was read by attorneys blogging elsewhere as Wells talking about an appeal. I thought he was talking about when defense put on their case, since at this time they are only allowed to address what has been brought up by the prosecution. Several times during the cross that was an issue. Fitzgerald complaining that defense was bringing up stuff he hadn't introduced.

MayBee

Without evidence that Libby was concerned about the non-disclosure agreements at the time of his statements, I don't think the mere existence of them establishes motive.

True. It could just as easily be argued that if Libby was concerned with the NDA, he would never have discussed classified information, therefore he didn't, and he is telling the truth.

Martin

And right on cue here comes (un)enlightened:

"I can see exactly why Ari needed immunity from prosecution - he's probably a leaker, and definitely a liar."

Wow. What a choice for Bush when preparing portraits at his Presidential library:

"Hmmm...was my VP's Chief of Staff a perjurer or was my official spokesman probably a leaker and definitely a liar?"

Well-we'll all know soon...

kate

Ah, now we're reduced to rooting for Ari (go Ari) and quoting CBS/NYT's polls where the sample was so weighted with Democrats and Independents that it has been discounted by most observers.

However, Bush's numbers are low so I agree that he should consider a pardon of Libby.

Javani

Enlightened,

"How else would Scooter/Ari/Novak have virtually the same story?"

That's not Scooter's story from his own mouth.

You've struck a murky undercurrent here, after Novak's October 1 2003 published article telegraphed what he heard it appeared some people might have conformed their testimony to that. Ari's sounds like that, Cooper's "I heard that too" from Libby (not what Libby's says he said") is identical to what Rove said he told Novak.

Enlightened

Alot has changed since the 22 indictments that never happened?

The House changed hands? Priceless.

I particularly am fond of the Dan Sutton, closet gay, male page scandal that is just rocketing through the newswires.

That's good stuff.

Martin

Holy-moly 20,000 signatures for the Loyalty Pledge to support the surge?

Since Bush got 62,040,610 votes in 2004, that means about 3/100ths of 1% of BUSH VOTERS have signed the Loyalty Pledge.

The Senators are shaking in their beds tonight, I'm sure.

Other Tom

"Look I'm not really interested arguing the evidence." No kidding, "Don." As "Martin," you went out of your way to show us that you know evidence like my ass chews gum. Party hard, big fella.

As I prepare to sortie for a fine din-din with the little woman preceded by a nice double Stoli Martini up, I rub my malicious hands together with glee, thinking about how poor ol' Joe Cotchett must feel when reading the accounts of the testimony thus far. And the oaf Chermerinsky down at Duke would feel similarly ill, if only he had tried a few cases in his career. How's that "conspiracy to out Ms. Plame" working out for ya, Joe?

kate

As compared to

Did my Attorney General really kill children in a bungled raid;

Did my National Security Advisor stuff documents in his pants.

Did my UN ambassador serve as a personnel officer for my former girlfriends?

Did my wife avoid indictment because the SP thought he couldn't get a conviction in DC.

Wasn't I impeached?

Were 2 of my cabinet members indicted?

Sue

Actually, reading it as Wells saying it doesn't make any sense.

Patton

Martin, you really need to grow up. You think Grossman and Greniers' memories have gotten BETTER over the past three years??
Or you think they don't want to spend a couple million dollars and half their retirement fighting charges from Fitz.

The only credible factual testimony we have heard so far is that Kathy Martin told Libby
ONCE that Wilsons wife sent him to Niger and he didn't even acknowldege, according to her testimony, that he even heard her.

So much for the 11 witnesses that will testify they clearly remember telling Libby
Wilsons wife was a covert agent and sent Wilson to Niger.

Once would have to ask at this point why Libby didn't start saying back to people:

I know that....or maybe even, Yes, I heard that too.....

Its funny Martin how little evidence you need to convict Cheney, you sound like you would even believe that if Iraq had a trade delegation meet with the Nigerians that included the prior head of Iraqs nuclear program, you might get the hint that they were interested in yellowcake, afterall, that was the impression the former Prime Minister got.

Or better yet, why don't you just believe Joe Wilson when he told you Iraq has WMD and if we attempt to overthrow Saddam he will use them on us. Was Joe lying then?

Martin, here's Joe Wilson talking about Iraq, BEFORE he became a Kerry wanna be in waiting:

A ‘Big Cat’ With Nothing to Lose
By Joseph C. Wilson
February 6 2003

… There is now no incentive for Hussein to comply with the inspectors or to refrain from using weapons of mass destruction to defend himself if the United States comes after him.

or to refrain from using weapons of mass destruction to defend himself if the United States comes after him.


or to refrain from using weapons of mass destruction to defend himself if the United States comes after him.

Does it start to sink in at all yet Martin? Joe only became a true believer in no weapons when Kerry dangled pretty State Dept position in his eyes.


And he will use them; we should be under no illusion about that.


Sara (Squiggler)

77% of the people responding to a CNN poll and 84% on the Fox poll, say that the President's SOTU was Positive or Excellent. These numbers may be the reason Pelosi and Murtha beat feet to Iraq to see if they've been barking up the wrong tree. I think these numbers shocked the dems. big time.

Enlightened

Poor Martin.

I bet you love that Clinton Library full of stained blue dresses and purloined classified documents. Among other esteemed Clinton memorabilia.

Hey, maybe you can work for Hill's campaign and make it onto the Clinton Wall.

Martin

Patton-I actually feel sorry for Libby.

Very sorry. None of this was Libby's idea. He's really just a loyal soldier sold down the river cause his two bosses are too gutless to take the heat and reveal what really happened. Whatever it is.

And if there really was no crime involved, it's just unbelievably stupid to be having this trial.

I assume libby's been assured of a pardon, but I really can't figure out why Bush just won't give it to him.

Martin

Again Sara-do you really believe that? It's a fantasy!!!. More people voted for Bush than even watched the SOTU!

Sue

I assume libby's been assured of a pardon, but I really can't figure out why Bush just won't give it to him.

You also can't figure out that Joe Wilson had his panties in a wad because someone referred to him as low level. You also have trouble figuring out that Fitzgerald means it when he says his case is through after Libby's trial. There isn't going to be a fitzmas. Just a fizzle.

boris

but I really can't figure out ...

... much of anything apparently ...

lurker

Sara, the democrats are getting upset when they heard about "The Pledge" and how well it is doing.

There was no crime involved as far as I can tell.

Because the democrats will vehemently attack Bush if he pardons Libby.

kate

MSNBC had this blazing red breaking news banner up, usually reserved for wars and huge disasters, and they had that idiot Michael Isikoff going on about Rove being called by the defense or something. Apparently it's huge, but I was nodding off because it seemed kinda boring to me.

MSNBC did that on Tuesday also. I was at the gym and Shuster was breathless and there was this huge breaking news banner. I switched the remote to CNN and then FOX and nothing. I figured it was Shuster just making stuff up and that turned out to be what happened.

topsecretk9

Adam Levine --Ari's boy now but former Chris Matthew producer...Matthew's who has been licking Wilson's boots consistently - don't you think Chris Matthew's was calling his old producer in the press office incessantly since the unnamed envoy articles were appearing? Oh, I do. I bet Matthew's was whispering in this guys ears 'don't you know how bad this is for the administration Adam, this guys is solid, his wife works in WMD at the CIA - she's backing him up, this envoy has the goods" or some variation - I think that's why Matthew's is on the witness list (to be a witness, not just a mention)

Carol Herman

Just before the 2004 election, the media was trying to trounce bush with "lowest ever poll numbers."

But it was Dan Rather who took the spill.

So far, if there was a score board, it would read that the INTERNET has overtaken the pundits in the media. And, most people, these days, get their news HERE. Not there! Especially because there are links where you can go to see "events."

I saw Wolf Blitzer positively being very ugly against Mary CHeney. While at the same time saying "he really likes her a lot."

But the left seems masters at destructive smear campaigns. They haven't yet scored much with this, either.

Here, I read everything Clarice writes. But I'm also catching up to SUE. Who points out WHY Fitzgerald is fighting so hard, when Wells questions witnesses. It's that "door thing." Fitzgerald wants it mostly closed. And, Wells wants to defend his client.

It seems Reggie Walton wants Libby to testify. (So he withheld the memory expert.) I guess, now, depending how the rest of the trial goes; Fitzgerald has nothing on his hook, BUT LIBBY. No 22 indictments to follow. Only Nifong's junk, as well.

And, what really seems like a media attempt to destroy Bush; As if history won't address what we see here!

There's also another test. Bush has all the patience in the world. While the donks have been tearing up any good will they got from the last election cycle. Misrepresenting the popular will won't lead to bills passing congress. Just giving Bush opportunities to use his VETO pen. (And, no matter how you count them up, there aren't enough votes to over-ride.)

As to this DC jury? I don't see a conviction, ahead. But, sure. A HUNG JURY. Entirely possible. Like a broken toilet, the swamp gets more crap flowing into it. But it's not like watching what happened to Nixon.

Besides? Do you think Armitage, Woodward, and Miller, won't be writing books? No matter what happens, it's not the end of the story. Heck, if we're lucky, Clarice Feldman will also join the authors up there on the best seller list.

There is definitely a need to clear the air with the truth. (Besides, every day that passes, I begin to believe Cheney, himself, will emerge in 2008 as the GOP nominee.)

we need something where people start to laugh.

Enlightened


Martin - You are wickedly stupid, yet funny.

The POLLS that alleged so many against the Surge was nowhere near 20,000 respondents.

Ex: CBS - 933 respondents

20,000 people are merely informing the public that those Polls were a lie.

Why don't you round up a list of 20,000 Donthinkers as a rebuttal?

Yeah I thought so.

Martini number two is on board.

TruthProbe

Maybe someone has a bad memory.

Carol Herman

The silence that surprises me. Joe Wilson is gone from the shows that used to have him on, a lot. He's gone from the centerfold at Vanity Fair. And, his wife isn't being used as a blonde model, either.

Huh.

The "stars" of the left fell into a fish barrel. They must stick so much that the nutworks don't call their number.

And, they don't seem to be the toast of the DC town circuit.

I noticed something "odd" when Turki, the ambassador from Saudi Arabia, swiftly left town. No diplomatic-pants-dances. No long goodbye. Even though he had diplomatic immunity. He exited DC faster than you could say he got "tossed out on his ass."

So, when the "favorites" of the media, fall "out of favor," so to speak ... Even though I am sure they stay ready "for their close ups," what do you make of it?

For Sherlock Holmes, when the hounds didn't bark, he pointed to the dogs' owner as the murderer. So, silence "spoke" to that great detective.

And, you have silence here! Go figa.

lurker

Enlightened, it is now 21,753 signatures.

MayBee

So...how safe is it to assume that any reporter that ended up not getting the subpoena was told by Mr. Immunized?

-Why would Bill Harlow, for no apparent reason in this instance, qualify his statement that it was Baghdad Joe that was sent by the addendum "and his wife works over here"?--

I need to look over this testimony again, but did Harlow, just freshly pulled out of a meeting, know this off the top of his head?

This happened June 11. A month later the CIA still hadn't done much to clear up the Wilson-planted story that the OVP had sent him. No wonder the OVP got more and more angry.
If the CIA had moved in June when it was becoming obvious people were interested, they could have protected their employee. If she needed protection.

Dan S

You're being disingenuous, Martin. You know good and well why Bushitler won't pardon Libby!

topsecretk9

--I need to look over this testimony again, but did Harlow, just freshly pulled out of a meeting, know this off the top of his head?--

Which makes his month later conversation (make that 2 conversations) with Novak even stranger - especially given that Val notified the press office the press may be calling.

pulls it out of the top of his way back when --it's an issue all through the month, is notified press would be calling - the main CIA public information officer trained to say "can't confirm or deny" - doesn't do that when Novak calls, it's only **after** Novak calls, he supposedly **decides** to look her up and then calls back?

Something screwy there.

lurker

And who...DEMANDED the assignment of a Special Prosecutor AND this investiation?

Carl Levin? Didn't he write a letter to Ashcroft?

Enlightened

Maybee - Keep in mind that that quote I asked about Harlow came from the LAT article that is just plain crap.

So we should check and see if Martin did indeed say that Harlow said exactly that.

It just doesn't make sense that Martin telling Harlow the OVP has nothing to do with the trip, then Harlow saying to the effect yeah we sent him, and HIS WIFE WORKS HERE. Who the hell cares about the wife's occupation at that point in time? They cared about 1) the trip and 2) who is this assclown Joe Wilson and why is he spewing this crap?

lurker

Can you imagine Richardson being our US president after reading Bill Richardson, Iraq withdrawl, and the Cambodia factor

Geesch!

LAT: The can't-be-any-worse argument was also very popular in 1975 in Vietnam, and Cambodians found out that it could actually get quite a good deal worse. Is that something that worries you? What do you build into that process?

Richardson: Yeah. It worries me, but how worse can it get?

LAT: Two million people killed in a genocide?

Richardson: Well, but you're assuming that our presence there has prevented that from happening. Our presence there has caused, I think, the civil war to accelerate. [...] Is our presence preventing this genocide? I'm not sure.

topsecretk9

--This happened June 11. A month later the CIA still hadn't done much to clear up the Wilson-planted story that the OVP had sent him. No wonder the OVP got more and more angry.--

Sounds like to me that the Niger trip on the CIA's end, from start to finish, was NOT conducted properly on many fronts -- and I think there were some higher ups at CIA who needed to find out just exactly what the hell took place before they could fully answer. They may have need to clear things up (cover) too.

I still contend that there is something very fishy about the CIA not getting a NDA from Wilson.

Sue

The folks at EW, and in all fairness, elsewhere, seem shocked that the WH uses the press to get its information out. I wonder if it only relates to this WH and not the preceding WHs? Do they think these same conversations didn't occur with prior administrations? My goodnes, read George Steph....(I can't spell his name off the top of my head) and you will see the same type of stuff. The things that get them atwitter...

Patton

Come on Martin, tell us why Joe Wislon told Cheney and Libby in 2003 that Saddam Hussein would use his WMDs on us??

Should Cheney have listened to him then?


A ‘Big Cat’ With Nothing to Lose
By Joseph C. Wilson
February 6 2003

… There is now no incentive for Hussein to comply with the inspectors or to refrain from using weapons of mass destruction to defend himself if the United States comes after him.

COME ON MARTIN, CLUE US IN TO WHY JOE WOULD RIGHT THIS...WAS HE DUPED BY CHENEY?

topsecretk9

Sue
Initially I thought "who are they kidding?" - see Lanny Davis's book and his very special favorite AP reporter to leak bad news too. But then I realized it's pretend outrage. The next time a dem. goes on MTP to do damage control or "get their story" out the same people, EW and Co.

1. Won't see it for what it is, but celebrate the "message"

and

2. Will intentionally ignore the irony of their once pretend disgust/outrage

That's why I loved Byron York's inconvenient point that MTP is a logical "get the message" out venue - that's why Joe Wilson went there!

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Wilson/Plame