First Plame Bombshell - David Gregory of NBC, Leak Recipient And Liar?

BREAKING, BIG:

We are relying on the live-blogging of the Libby trial by the always-astute EmptyWheel, who is covering the opening statement of Libby's attorney, Ted Wells, but we have a potential blockbuster absolutely guaranteed to get exactly zero headlines.

Ted Wells drops the news that David Gregory of NBC received a leak about Plame from Ari Fleischer on July 11:

Now shows Ari dislcoses to David Gregory on July 11 that Ambassador Wilson's wife worked at the CIA. Fleischer tells that before Libby was ever indicted. "I told David Gregory." Talks about time difference, says Ari leaked to Gregory first.

Now let's flash back to October 29, 2005, just after the Libby indictment.  Russert has gathered the Washington Bureau to discuss the case on CNBC's "Tim Russert Show".  At the time, I excerpted the transcript and suggested they were rehearsing their cover story.  So let's cut to David Gregory:

RUSSERT: Well, ironically, when I was asked about this, I said, if I had known this, I would have told Andrea Mitchell. I would have told Pete Williams.
MITCHELL: In fact, Tim, you would have called me and said, `You hosted "Meet the Press" and questioned Joe Wilson and covered the agency and you didn't know that the wife--what's going on with you?'
RUSSERT: And I did call Neal Shapiro, the head of NBC News, and say, `You know, we have this high-level viewer complaint about what's on cable,' and that--you know, that was the extent of my sharing information with Neal Shapiro.
GREGORY: Wait...
RUSSERT: If I had known something with--then I would have said to Neal--and Neal would have said, `Get to the cameras.' Or you know what? Actually it is so sensitive...
MITCHELL: We would have decided not to...
RUSSERT: ...I would have even talked--we would have talked it through and said...
MITCHELL: Right.
RUSSERT: ...`Hey, what about this?' or `Should we check her status?' It's easy to say that in hindsight, but I...
MITCHELL: In fact, we should tell...
RUSSERT: ...when I read it in Novak, boom.
GREGORY: And it is interesting--it's also interesting, I should just point out, that nobody called me at any point, which is unfortunately...
WILLIAMS: Apparently not.
GREGORY: ...not the point.
RUSSERT: Does anybody ever?
GREGORY: But I just wanted to note that.
RUSSERT: I've been meaning to talk to you about that.

Nobody called him except Ari Fleischer.  Baffling.  Now, before I run amok, let me remind folks that Libby "confessed" to leaking to Glenn Kessler of the WaPo, who spoke with Fitzgerald and insisted that Libby had done no such thing.

SO - one might presume that Fitzgerald spoke with David Gregory, and one ought to hold open the possibility that Mr. Fleischer made the same type of error made by Mr. Libby.

However, there is a small straw in the wind from Fitzgerald's opening statement (again, based on the EW liveblogging):

Ari had conversations with reporters that he should not have had

Reporters, plural?   I have long asserted that Ari Fleischer leaked to Walter Pincus, but an additional leak to David Gregory would justify the use of the plural.

I have no doubt that reporters will line up to learn whether David Gregory (a) was interviewed by Fitzgerald (apparently not, see MORE); (b) received a leak from Ari Fleischer, and (c) lied on the "Tim Russert Show" on Oct 29, 2005.  Unless, of course, the media covers for their own, which is what will happen here.

I am going to post this to highlight the Gregory discrepancy, then see the rest of the Wells statement to see where he went with this.  But *IF* Gregory is lying, can Andrea and Russert be as clean as the snow?  here is more detail on Andrea Mitchell's evasions, confusions, and close coverage of the Wilson-Niger story; Russert's tightly focused denial is tagged here.

MORE: From the live blog summary of the Wells opening statement:

Mr. Russert was only questioned for 22 minutes.

Mr. Russert was not even required to go down to court. They interviewed Mr. Russert in a law office. All the Grand Jurors saw was Russert's transcript.

Mr. Russert was not asked one question about David Gregory, or about Andrea Mitchell.

Mr. Fitzgerald says the FBI was concerned about getting to the truth. Tim Russert had a deal. He had a deal with the government. He would only be questioned about his conversation with Mr. Libby.  He had a deal. [Says it with a snear in his voice.]

They didn't ask Mr. Russert about Mitchell or Gregory.

Went out and asked if they would submit to an interview.

They don't want to be interviewed. No subpoena. She doesn't talk to the government.

So neither Gregory nor Mitchell spoke with Fitzgerald?  That is consistent with Mitchell's story, and means Fitzgerald left the Gregory detail hanging.  Wow.  I am so surprised that I want to see some one else's coverage to see if the EmptyWheel got a flat here or something - unlikely, because she is well up to speed on the implications of all this, but still... [Several big time journalists picked up on the Fleischer-Gregory item - link].

A NOTE TO DAVID GREGORY"S APOLOGISTS:  Please, stop it.  Yes, it would be hard to sustain a perjury conviction on the basis of that transcript.  However, Gregory is a reporter, not a contestant on "I've Got A Secret" - if Russert and Mitchell are explaining that they didn't get leaks, so therefore they could not have known, it is incumbent upon Mr. Gregory to deliver a bit of corrective news and admit to his involvement with Mr. Fleischer.  Failure to do so is a lie of omission, i.e., the deliberate concealment of relevant information with the intent to deceive.

And by chiming in with "nobody called me at any point", Gregory certainly does not clarify the situation for the viewer.  Quite the contrary.  In this context, I consider that a clear lie - his intent was to leave viewers with the impression that he had not received a leak.

And to be fair, perhaps he did not - at this point, I would not expect there to be much evidence other than Ari's word.

 

Comments

[Ugh]

Great details Tom, but the story tonight will be "Libby Blames White House!" or something similar.

[PaulL]

Gregory said no one CALLED him. He didn't say Ari didn't talk to him directly in person.

[cboldt]

-- So neither Gregory nor Mitchell spoke with Fitzgerald? --

The pieces line up if Fitz is focused on false statements.

It's great that Gregory is being outed as a liar.

[Martin]

Of all today's news-you want to focus on David Gregory?!

"Libby Trial meets American Psycho"

[boris]

Fitz is focused

Sorta like one of those psych experiments where they set up fake scenarios and actually study the "assistants" who think they're helping and don't know they're really the subjects.

[Sue]

The night before Grossman testified, Armitage visited Grossman. Tells him that he wants him to know he was the one who leaked to Novak. Mr. Grossman was "mixed up" in this matter in a different way. Grossman recognized that meeting with another witness could be construed as cooking the books.

Crazy. This should have been shut down a long time ago. By someone.

[steve sturm]

As I wrote a while back, I think Fitzgerald made a big mistake in basing this case on the backs and testimony of journalists (especially, in one case, the husband of a Democratic activist). Granted, the jury might not think much of Bush and company, but reporters sure aren't high on the list of admired people, are they?

[Javani]

"no one called"

That's mimicking Novak's similar words around that time.

From that trascript of Russert, man Russert is a smooth talker, is he a former see him dodge that question if he knew? Priceless. And the way he frames Libby:

""He then says that I shared with him the name of Valerie Plame and that she worked for the CIA.""

That's one reason why Wells is focusnig on "the wife."

[TexasToast]

David Gragory is on trial? Looks like everyone but our defendant will be by the time the defense is through.

Per your previous post - I would really like to see those sulfurous Cheney flames. What a great mental picture! (smile)

[hit and run]

Gregory said no one CALLED him. He didn't say Ari didn't talk to him directly in person.

Or Gregory called Ari, or email.

Or maybe Gregory and Ari used a previously identified payphone - "he didn't call me, he called a payphone. I just happened to pick up."

Or maybe Ari left a package by a lampost a couple of blocks from the WH?

[hit and run]

Looks like everyone but our defendant will be by the time the defense is through.

Pretty much a minimal requirement for a minimally competent defense attorney, especially in a he-said/he-said/she-said case.

[vnjagvet]

TT:

Apparently you have not observed many criminal trials. It is classic defense strategy to lay off guilt on anyone but the accused. Especially where, as here, no one else is indicted. The jury must decide whether all of the prosecution's theory is proven "beyond a reasonable doubt". If Wells makes a plausible showing that the bad guy(s) in the administration is (are) anyone but Libby, voila, reasonable doubt.

Don't scoff until all the evidence is in. It is only the first real day of a long trial.

[azredneck]

Let's hope gregory gets his!!!

[topsecretk9]

What? I THOUGHT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE MY PROXY!!!!

[TexasToast]

VNJ

Wells is doing some pretty good "...pounding of the table." I'm hopin' that "Cheney made me do it" is the defense of choice. Sulfurous, indeedy!

[sad]

Let's hope gregory gets his!!!

He is incredibly deserving!!!!

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Am I too big to say 'I told you so'?

Hahahahahaha:

RUSSERT: I came back after that interview, after The New York Times piece, and there was a discussion about Joe Wilson and I didn't know very much. And then when I read Novak's column the following Monday, I said, `Oh, my God, that's it. Now I see. It's his wife, Valerie Plame, CIA, sent him on the trip. Now I understand what everybody was trying to figure out.'

[hit and run]

Well, at least Gregory didn't do any sanctimonious self-righteous grandstanding in any WH press briefings with say Scott McClellan. That would be embarrassing.

[clarice]

WOWSERS--WOWSERS--and the twofer is that that showboating fool is exposed.
And Mitchell and Russert (short NBC stock)..And best of all Wells is skillfully weaving in the facts about the reverse battleship nature of an investigation headed by a dunce who had the nerve to charge anyone with obstructing justice.

[Javani]

From EmptyWheel

"Mr. Russert [I think he misstated–he means Cooper]. His question to Mr. Libby was about the same as Mr. Russert said.

Mr. Libby said, "I heard that too.""

---Oh, so they're relying on Cooper's "correct" memory here? Well, anything that helps...I guess

"She says she might have been trying to trick Mr. Libby."

Of course she was. Will "all the reporters" admit they use such ruses as part of the trade?

[Anonymous Liberal]

Tom,

I think your 'gotcha' on Gregory is a little pre-mature. That transcript from the Russert show is totally ambiguous. When Gregory says "nobody called me," he may well be refering to Russert and Mitchell, i.e., 'no one at NBC called me to see what I knew'. Or, he might be referring to the the FBI and Special Prosecutor's office, i.e., 'no one from the government called me to see what I knew'.

From the context, it's not at all obvious that he's referring to the initial leaking. So I don't think you've caught him in a lie.

[Rick Ballard]

"Or maybe Ari left a package by a lampost a couple of blocks from the WH?"

Nah. Hollowed out pumpkin.

[vnjagvet]

An interesting observations from Joyner:

Grossman was a good witness for Libby on the memory issue;

Grossman's demeanor was neutral in that he displayed no animosity towards Libby;

In view of the above Wells may have been a bit too confrontational in some of his cross.

[windansea]

INR memo

Wanted more info, just felt like it needed to be fuller

Would have requested for the memo to the executive secretary

Now looking at the rest of the week.

May 30, were you in office that day?

Grossman left for Madrid on Sunday June 1 then went to N Africa.

Returned back in office on June 9.

Don't recall whether report was waiting for him when he got back to the office. Got it either late on the 10th or 11th of June.

Grossman read the report.

Report was a full compilation of what the department knew, what our people had been involved with getting the trip organized.

Explains what INR is-research organization.

Information about Joseph Wilson's wife?

I recall reading Valerie Wilson was employed at CIA.

Mrs. Wilson was in the Chair of those meetings. Plame described as WMD manager type.

According to the report, she was the organizer of the Ambassador Wilson's trip.

"I thought this was pretty interesting. Odd that she worked at the agency and was involved in the organization of the trip."

Grossman thought it was not appropriate

[clarice]

Possibly, AL--but when you put together the Mitchell/Russert stuff--that from the outset (per Grossman) everyone at State knew and the fact that Mitchell was pimping DoS leaks like crazy at the time- the inference that they are a lying sack of weasels is rational.
This is more fun than "Rome"

[vnjagvet]

An = Some

[SteveMG]

If someone testifies that they saw a prothonotary warbler, all hell will break loose.

SMG

[Rick Ballard]

Does anyone recall if Munchausen raised the "they're out to get me" hue and cry prior to Grossman's heads up of May 29?

Grossman was sure a good buddy.

[clarice]

He raised that likelihood in his June 14, 2003 EPIC performance where he first annointed himself as a truth telling whistleblower whom the administration would certainly try to take revenge on, Rick.

[Patton]

Did Wells ever ask Grossman if he evr bothered to check to see if anything was classified with regard tp the trip before talking to a civilian blabbermouth like Wilson?? Did he check to see if Plame was a covert operative before passing this information to Libby?

And what EXACTLY did Wilson tell Grossman about his wife on that first phone call over an open telephone line, at night, in the dark, while David Gregory slept?

[Martin]

This is like being inside the heads of the OJ jurors as the truth glides by unnoticed.

[Patton]

Martin, glad to hear your with your family.....

[Javani]

"In view of the above Wells may have been a bit too confrontational in some of his cross."

Hard to say. According to the commentary, Grossman acting sheepish. Talked with Armitage the day before testimony? Wow.

Wells is trying to establish that lots of people knew. Grossman counters that he hadn't read the Kristof article. Maybe will testify there was more interest later in June when more articles. Plus the British must have called up about the smudge on their own intelligence? Wells will do well to focus that the info at issue is British, not a Bushlie.

[windansea]

Grossman looking a little sheepish. Boy does he look like an uncomfortable little kid. He's got gangly hands and big ears.

You had one conversation concerning Mr. Wilson's wife.

Only conversation was on or about June 11 or 12, right?

Yes sir.

That conversation probably lasted 30 seconds or less, right?

Yes.

Wells giving Grossman his grand jury testimony.

Your first conversation was May 29.

You need the calendar to identify when you met with Mr. Libby. You're only reconstructing it based on your examination of your calendar.

Is it fair to say that you are assuming that that is the date.

In terms of your present recollection, you don't have any recollection. You referred to that as "reconstruction."

When you reconstruct your testimony, you're talking about an analysis of the calendar. You have no present recollection of the date.

May 29, 2003, was your first conversation with Libby.

Libby asked him about the trip of an ambassador.

Grossman never read Kristof's article.

In all the years, you never looked at it.

I was trying to answer the questions people asked of me.

It became apparent to me that, yes, there was lot's of talk about a retired ambassador.

In connection with the lots of talk, did you know that the lots of talk had to do with this article.

Mr. Libby didn't ask you to commission a report?

No.

No discussion that the Ambassador's name was Joe Wilson.

Then you met with Mr. Armitage, Why did you meet with Mr. Armitage?

You told Mr. Armitage that Libby had asked a question.

Had Mr. Armitage not read the Kristof aritcle?

Do you find it odd that there was an article that was HIGHLY critical about the State Department, and neither you nor Armitage read the article?

I recognize that this doesn't sound so smart now. My whole job was to make sure what we were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan was right.

4:38

After you talked to Armitage you send an email to a Mr. Ford and Kansteiner.

Correct.

May 29.

Describe what INR is. State Department's research and intelligence.

Kansteiner in charge of Africa bureau.

I aksed if it rang any bells with them.

May 29, I think I called Joe Wilson.

Very first time he talked to Wilson about the trip.

Grossman believes he told Wilson Libby told him to look into the trip.

Grossman, I don't think anything else happened, I may have made interim call to Libby on May 29 or 30.

I told him I'd known Joe Wilson, and that's why I called him.

Did you tell him you went back all the way to college. No.

Did you tell him you had servedin the Foreign Service in similar capacities over the year. No.

1991 Grossman DCM in Turkey and Wilson DCM in Baghdad.

We only spoke when we were involved in evacuating American personnel from Kuwait.

You in fact knew Mrs. Wilson. Saw her at the gym. Yes.

I was invited to their house. He invited me there to breakfast and I went. (For a UCSB fundraising event.)

WRT May 29, there's no discussion about "the wife." Because you do not know about "the wife" until June 9 or 10.

You then go out of the country.

Grossman takes a sip of water.

Let's pin down the dates when you were out of the country.

Return from Tunis on June 6. Back in office on June 9.

Wells: One other thing happened on May 29. You asked Mr. Ford and Mr. Kansteiner to do a memo setting forth what they knew about Joe Wilson's trip. You told Mr. Ford and Mr. Kansteiner that the memo was being prepared in response to an inquiry from Scooter Libby. You told them, I want a memo prepared because Mr. Libby has asked me a question.

June 9, report's not ready. Then, you said you got the report on June 11 or 12. I think it came either the night of the 10th or 11th.

I want you to look at the report.

Grossman has a grimace on his face.

Is that a copy of the report you got on June 10 or 11.

Report does not say anything about the fact that Mr. Libby has requested information from the State Department. Anyone reading this report would have no idea that report's generation occurred because Mr Libby asked you a question.

Report refers to Valerie Wilson.

Here's the INR stuff that, from memory, was redacted before:

Joe Wilson played only a walk-on part in the Niger.Iraq uranium story.

But said he would only go if the department said the trip made sense.

There is absolutely no indication that OVP had anything to do in terms of requesting Mr. Wilson to go on that trip. There's no evidence that Cheney asked for this trip.

Report of Mr. Wilson's trip given to State and CIA. Grossman: As far as I know.

Armitage knows about the report and that Grossman was going to talk to Mr. Libby.

We want to test the credibility. Wells tries to bring up what Armitage said, objection sustained.

Very close working relationship. Close friendship with Armitage. just a professional relationship with Libby.

When you talked to Libby, it was either before or after one of these big meetings.

Involved issues of national security.

In terms of the way you personally had to prepare, it was like a final exam. Yes, five or six or them in a row.

In terms of how you viewed the importance of "the wife" did you view the wife as zero or less than zero importance?

I thought the whole thing was unimportant. I thought the wife was an interesting tidbit.

You didn't utter ANY words to Libby that her classification was classified or covert.

No sir.

[windansea]

Grossman takes a sip of water.

GULP....:)

[clarice]

Suggests he was the one who first planted the notion Libby was gunning for Joe, doesn't it. At a minimum he, too, has made a misrecollection of a significant matter.

[Sue]

Only conversation was on or about June 11 or 12, right?

Yes sir.

Why is this sticking out at me? Didn't we think Grossman had another conversation with Libby concerning Plame?

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Grossman on cross:

Grossman thought that the whole Wilson matter was a non-story at the time and the matter of “the wife” only “an interesting tidbit.”

There was no indication at the time that her status was covert or classified, much less conveyed to Libby as such.

See previous JOM thread for fuller account and quotes via Joyner.

[windansea]

whole lotta misrecollectin goin on

[Patton]

Is there a transcript available?

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Sue, he talked to Libby every day just about according to his testimony. Libby asked, Grossman says I'll get back to you, later after talking to Wilsom and at least 3 others, he talks to Libby again about Wilson's trip.

[windansea]

wy doesn't Wells ask the gimp why he re released the INR memo

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Patton, Joyner gave the best summary. No transcripts yet. See other thread.

[windansea]

Is there a transcript available?

this is Wheeler live blogging at FDL

[clarice]

I am sure we will get some questions about the "second pressing" of the memo.

[Sue]

I should have been more specific. He says the only conversation with Libby with regards to the wife was on that date. I thought he had another conversation later in the month or early July with Grossman about Plame. Am I wrong?

[jerry]

I sort of like this idea that Bush/Rove were the original leakers (to Novak, before Armitage) and Cheney/Libby were brought in to spread the word and collect the blame... then scapegoated to protect Bush/Rove. Now that's drama!

[Javani]

"He raised that likelihood in his June 14, 2003 EPIC performance where he first annointed himself as a truth telling whistleblower whom the administration would certainly try to take revenge on, Rick."

Clarice, he did that before, of course anonymously.

Think about this, between the time he was praising Bush for taking out a "fascist" dictator and signing up with Team Kerry, did Joe apply for some Iraqi Reconstruction consulting and got rejected? Might have made him mad...I can't imagine him not applying, it would be something he's well-qualified to do.

[windansea]

Now that's drama!

drama queen...

[Sue]

id Joe apply for some Iraqi Reconstruction consulting and got rejected

Something pissed him off. I have read his pre-invasion public statements and compared them to his post-invasion public statements and they don't sound like the same person. Maybe it isn't. Maybe the CIA did a face transplant and switched him with someone else.

[windansea]

did Joe apply for some Iraqi Reconstruction consulting and got rejected?

yeah..maybe he pulled a Clarkie

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Okay, since you all don't want to go to the other thread, here it is. (Sue, there were more than one conversations with Libby.)

Per Joyner on Grossman via direct questioning by Fitz:

Government Exhibit #6 is a page from Grossman’s calendar for Thursday May 29, 2003. At 11:30, he attended a Deputies Committee meeting on Iraq at the White House situation room. His “best recollection” is that he talked to Libby either before or after either the 11:15 or 11:30 meeting and that Libby asked “if he knew anything about” a former ambassador’s trip to Africa and yellowcake. He didn’t but was embarrassed that he didn’t but would report back to him.

Upon returning to his office, he immediately asked Mr. Armitage to make sure he didn’t “get myself into any trouble.” Armitage “said he didn’t know anything about it either.” Grossman than sent emails to the Asst Sec for Research and for African Affairs to find out what State knew. Both said “they knew all about it.”

He took this information back to Armitage and asked if it jogged any memories and was answered in the negative. He then went to Libby and told him “yes, people at the State Dept knew about such a trip” and that Wilson had reported back to the government. He promised “a fuller report when I had it.”

He also contacted Wilson by phone to get more info. They were both longtime professional colleagues and members of the same university alumni association. Wilson “told me all about it.” His “recollection” is that he had talked to Wilson before Libby and relayed the info, including that Wilson though the Office of the VP had ordered the trip.

Grossman ultimately got a report on Wilson’s trip on June 10 or 11 from the Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR). That report mentioned that “Valerie Wilson was employed at CIA.” The context for this was that “Mrs. Wilson” chaired WMD panel and organized her husband’s trip. “I though this was pretty interesting. Kind of odd and remarkable that A) she worked at the Agency and B) she was involved in the organization of the trip.” He thought it was “inappropriate” that one spouse would arrange another’s trip.

He discussed this with Libby at the next Deputies Committee (”my recollection”) meeting, June 11 or 12 (there are meetings just about daily). “There’s one other thing you oughta know…his wife worked at the Agency.” Libby “listened to me and he thanked me.” He doesn’t recall the precise words of the conversation on either side. Grossman felt that “because he was senior to me” Libby deserved to “know the whole context.” Libby told him that the Office of the VP had nothing to do with the trip.

Armitage told him that he had told Novak about the Wilson-Wilson connection the night before his FBI testimony. Grossman was “shocked” but “appreciated the professional courtesy.”

On cross, Grossman:

“Do you find it strange” that neither he not Armitage read such a critical article about the State Dept? “I had about a billion things to do” and “couldn’t be troubled” to find out what happened in the past because he was so occupied by Iraq and other issues. (That’s Libby’s whole defense, of course.)

Grossman thought that the whole Wilson matter was a non-story at the time and the matter of “the wife” only “an interesting tidbit.”

There was no indication at the time that her status was covert or classified, much less conveyed to Libby as such.

Court ended, reconvene in morning.

[windansea]

Clarkie

"to apply for thuglican employment which when rejected opt for dhiminnitude...

[topescretk9]

Did Joe apply for some Iraqi Reconstruction consulting and got rejected

Hmmm. This does sound interestingly right.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

The night before Armitage's or Grossman's testimony? It isn't clear.

[windansea]

Upon returning to his office, he immediately asked Mr. Armitage to make sure he didn’t “get myself into any trouble.” Armitage “said he didn’t know anything about it either.”

sure...:)

[clarice]

The night before Grossman's testimony.

[Sue]

Sara,

Thank you, but that isn't what I was confused about. I thought Grossman had at least one other conversation with Libby about Plame. This from his testimony today indicates he didn't

You had one conversation with Libby about “the wife” that “lasted maybe 30 seconds”? “Yes, that’s correct.”

[windansea]

The night before Grossman's testimony.

yep

[Javani]

"He thought it was “inappropriate” that one spouse would arrange another’s trip."

Ouch, and that was on direct.

Grossman is diplomatic. Gives Wilson a reason not to seem a liar when he says Wilson thought he was working "for" the Vice President's Office, gives Libby a reason not to seem a liar when he relates Libby said he didn't wend Wilson.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

So WH/OVP know nothing about Wilson's trip and ask State. The big wigs at State know nothing either, so they ask the Bureau (Miller's notes) and they bring State up to speed. Then Grossman gets an earful from Wilson before reporting back to WH/OVP via Libby and tell them for the *first time* that "oh by the way" his wife arranged the trip. Gossip vs Geek.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Reporters only pick up on who sent Wilson, not the real story and these guys who are so busy are blindsided by something they noted as odd but promptly forgot because it was a totally insignificant detail the the actual story.

[Sue]

'Grossman left for Madrid on Sunday June 1 then went to N Africa.'

Before or after the Madrid bombing? He may have understood that Wilson's dad, who was a diplomat (CIA) in Spain while he was growing up, might have an affect because this was how Plame used. Plame would have considered this a threat, Wilson would have considered it freedom.

Wilson's book states that his father worked in Spain as a diplomat(CIA). The admission cannot be more obvious.

[sad]

The night before Grossman's testimony.

Then Grossman has let Libby twist in the wind all this time? What does Armitage have on Grossman? Why didn't Fitz find this out?

[Sue]

Uh, Sue at 2:49 PM is not me. We should have some kind of indicator of which Sue is posting.

[jerry]

"Now that's drama!

drama queen... "

windandsea! Are you down there in Mexico with those dolphins and whales? I had a friend who took a vacation there and said it was beautiful. An incredible variety of tequila apparently.

[windansea]

What does Armitage have on Grossman?

he can finger original leaker :)

Why didn't Fitz find this out?

He is not the smartest person in the room.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

This will all be pushed off the front page because tonight is the State of the Union address.

[sad]

Windansea

He may not be the smartest person in the room but he does appear to be the least principled. And so early in the trial...

[windansea]

Jerry

Yes I am here drinking expensive Tequila and shooting Valerie Flames...

kalua and mescal topped by flaming Cazadores

just kidding...as you can see my phrasing and spelling are cien percento...I'm only on my third Modelo

[DwightKSchrute]

Seriously Tom, "First Plame Bombshell"?

Not sure what's more disingenuous, the idea that this would be the "First Plame Bombshell" or the way you selectively edit Gregory's quotes to make it seem as if he could be lying.

Clearly the first Plame bombshell is Wells saying Bush administration officials are trying to blame Libby for the leak to try and cover up for Karl Rove's own disclosures. Even pseudo quoting Libby as saying “They’re trying to set me up. They want me to be the sacrificial lamb,” and . “I will not be sacrificed so Karl Rove can be protected.”.

Of course it's easier to just ignore that for now, and stall to come up with some way to circle that square. Especially after seeing the comical early attempts by Clarice. So instead you point out something obscure to let people chase their tails over.

With the Gregory thing it was helpful that you included the link from your previous post. When looking at it in full, it appears you may be misrepresenting what Gregory is saying by using selective editing to take it out of context. If you read the entire transcript you see that it's Andrea Mitchell, Russert and Gregory talking. Prior to Gregory's comments, Mitchell and Russert are going back and forth with Mitchell saying that she was "called in by the CIA" and told them she had learned about Plame from Novak's column. Russert says that if he knew (about the Plame/Wilson thing) he "would have told Andrea Mitchell. I would have told Pete Williams". Mitchell agrees and says "In fact, Tim, you would have called me..." and when Russell speaks next he says "And I did call Neal Shapiro, the head of NBC News". Gregory tries to jump in but Russert and Mitchell still go back and forth a bit then Gregory is finally able to get in "I should just point out, that nobody called me at any point". Seeing as the discussion leading up to the exchange is focused on the reporters and members of NBC news internal communication and "calls", it's pretty clear that Gregory was saying that he never got a call from Russert, Mitchell, Shapiro, etc. in regards to the situation. I suppose if you stretch a bit you could maybe infer that he was also saying he never got a call from the CIA like Mitchell said she did. However, your post, and the selective editing of the transcript makes it seem as if Gregory is talking about never having received a call from Libby, Rove, Fleischer, etc. Quite some leap you make there.

While at times I disagree with your logic and feel like you try a little too hard to make things fit your view of this case, I have a lot of respect for you. Something like this seems out of character, and very disappointing.

[sad]

Did Fitz put Grossman on first so that the jury would forget his testimony by the end of the trial? Grossman first seems like the best way to start off on a really negative tack for the persecutor.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

The first bombshell is that Grossman is the one who told both Armitage and the WH/OVP via his report back to Libby's question about a State Dept. trip to Niger and Yellowcake. The revelation was an "oh by the way" and unremarkable to either Grossman or Libby in context of the conversation.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

No wonder Libby felt like he was being scapegoated.

[clarice]

Well, I'm not in Fitz' head but I suppose he put Grossman on first because he wants to present his case chronologically to establish that Libby was told many times and his claim that he forgot until reminded by reporters is false.

Well--he got in a 30 second mention by someone who met with Libby every day on matters both Libby and Grossman have characterized as far more important.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

He was, but by Armitage and Grossman, not the WH.

[Jane]

Another dumb question: Joyner keeps referring to "Peter" Fitzgerald. Is that just a mistake or what?

IMX it is really tough to know how things are going when you aren't in the courtroom and you are rooting for one side in particular, but it sure as hell seems like an okay day for Libby.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Why did Grossman think he might be in trouble for telling Libby he didn't know anything about a trip to Niger?

[sad]

Why did Grossman think he might be in trouble for telling Libby he didn't know anything about a trip to Niger?

Great question Sara. Was it more than not wanting State to look uninformed?

[Rick Ballard]

sad,

Fitz is setting the chronology for his fantasy - skipping Munchausen's recruitment by Kerry's people, of course.

The world started with Grossman being approached by Libby on May 29.

[Tom Maguire]

From the Anon Lib:

I think your 'gotcha' on Gregory is a little pre-mature. That transcript from the Russert show is totally ambiguous.

I extended the excerpt a bit, but really - in the context of that conversation, with Mitchell and Russert declaiming the absurdity of their actually having received the leak and not reporting it, Gregory owes his viewers a bit more than an ambiguous "noboody called me". If he got the leak, he shoul have said so, or at least not given the appearance of denying it.

In any case, the point of the exercise was (IMHO) to rehearse their denials - I think Mitchell is lying through her teeth, and probably Russert as well.

[Javani]

"Why did Grossman think he might be in trouble for telling Libby he didn't know anything about a trip to Niger?"

I don't know if he said exactly that, but because Joe was leaking himself as a "former ambassador" that should be something the State Department should have known about.

[jerry]

"just kidding...as you can see my phrasing and spelling are cien percento...I'm only on my third Modelo"

First sake and ginger ale for me. I think Bohemia is my favorite Mexican beer, I also like Pacifico and Corona, all for sentimental reasons more than anything else.

[clarice]

Jane, I think that is just an error by Joyner.

As to why Grossman wanted to touch base with Armitage--perhaps it's considered bad form for anyone in DoS to speak to anyone else but reporters without the boss' say so.

[RichatUF]

Ted Wells drops the news that David Gregory of NBC received a leak about Plame from Ari Fleischer on July 11...

Couldn't Ari have showed him the early release of the Novak piece..."oh, that is what everyone was trying to figure out"

RichatUF

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Of course State should have known what their Ambassadors were doing, past and present. Grossman knew that State would have had to be involved with visas and letters of intro to the current Niger ambassador. Not knowing is not good. His excuse is that he wasn't interested in the past since he was so busy in the present with very important matters, like a war, for one. Yet Libby, whose job was not to keep track of what State Dept. officials are doing is expected to know every detail. Horsepucky.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'Clearly the first Plame bombshell is Wells saying Bush administration officials are trying to blame Libby for the leak to try and cover up for Karl Rove's own disclosures.'

That's not very important. Scott McClelland had told the press in late Sept 2003 that Rove wasn't involved in any plot to out Valery. When Libby heard it he went to Cheney and said, hey, include me in the denial. I didn't do anything wrong either.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Oh, Grossman, the #3 State Dept. official needs permission to give requested information to the President and/or Vice President of the U.S.? What's wrong with that picture?

[Rick Ballard]

"In any case, the point of the exercise was (IMHO) to rehearse their denials - I think Mitchell is lying through her teeth, and probably Russert as well."

I agree. Both AL and Mr. Schrute are being very disingenuous in their rebuttal. Gregory's "nobody told me" is tied to Russert's "if I had known this, I would have told Andrea Mitchell. I would have told Pete Williams." and Mitchell's "you know, NBC put out a statement that night--that I had not been a recipient of the leak; in fact, I had learned about it from Novak's column like everyone else."

To read it as internal NBC badinage is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears while shouting "I can't hear you". Just silly.

[clarice]

Sara, It suggests to me Grossman knew for whom he was working--After all, with Powell's knowledge, Armitage went to the FBI without ever informing the President he had been the leaker.

[Javani]

Regarding Rove, people here assume it was with the press..

But what if it was something Rove did with the prosecution?

[topsecretk9]

Joe was leaking himself as a "former ambassador" that should be something the State Department should have known about.

Wilson went to Walt G. to ask his permission for his trip he said was at the behest of Cheney - you know the guy senior enough to ask, senior enough to get. Lucky for Cheney Walt K. said it was OK.

But Grossman went to 2 people who were aware of the trip a year earlier - like he just plucked them out of a hat?

[Cecil Turner]

Seeing as the discussion leading up to the exchange is focused on the reporters and members of NBC news internal communication and "calls", it's pretty clear that Gregory was saying that he never got a call from Russert, Mitchell, Shapiro, etc. in regards to the situation.

I don't think that's clear at all, and in fact I read it the same way Tom did. Every time anyone else talks about "getting a call" in the conversation, it refers to being the recipient of a leak . . . and that's the main subject after all. Gregory is lame enough (and egotistical enough) to point out none of his coworkers called him, but that really wouldn't be news, now would it? Not getting a leak adds something to the conversation, at least.

[clarice]

I don't assume Rove talked to the press (except for what has already been revealed) or to the prosecutor (except to confirm those conversations). I think what Wells was describing was not an actual effort to frame Rove but his fear that that was happening when he was initially interviewed about the case. Hence he went to Cheney and Cheney wrote the note indicating he would not let Libby be scapegoated.

[Javani]

"But Grossman went to 2 people who were aware of the trip a year earlier - like he just plucked them out of a hat?"

LOL. He could have picked two State Department stenographers, they would have known. The Kristof and other stuff should have kicked off some gossipy interest in the bureaucracy.

But Grossman doesn't read the Times, so he says...

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Clarice, you are tangling up the State Dept. coverup with a legitimate request from the WH/OVP. OVP had every right to ask about an amabassador's trip they knew nothing about and expect a full and honest answer back. Grossman indicates he did his best to get the answers back to them. The fact that the Bureau email reply gives him the full story including who went and how it came about is just facts to answer the request via Libby. After that, everything else that Armitage or Grossman did not do as far as the investigation is State's CYA.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

And I might add, an attempt to scapegoat Libby.

[Jane]

I wonder if Russert and Gregory will be part of MSNBC's coverage of the SOTU address tonite.

[Patton]

What are the chances these reporters picked up on Novaks story when it went out, but wasn't published yet and they don't want to admit they were basically stealiong Novaks story before it went to press.

Regardless of whatever the truth is, the NBC reporters look bad because they have repeatedly not told the whole story to the public...you know those people that have the whole RIGHT TO KNOW that the press allways talks about.

[RichatUF]

...But Grossman went to 2 people who were aware of the trip a year earlier - like he just plucked them out of a hat?...and that "they remembered all about it" just like it was yesterday.

Then got all the details from truth teller himself-Joe Wilson...what participated the 29 May inquiries-a Joe and Val sourced Kristof or Pincus piece?

And I'm all for a long complicated trial but isn't Libby charged with false statements and obstruction re:Miller, Russert, Cooper...

RichatUF