Yet Another Open Libby Thread

Sorry - I have set this to "Auto-post", so if this thread is up I must still be dark.  Troubling, for me.

Comments

[topsecretk9]

left this on last thread...

Wells Somewhat easier, more traditional, Govt wants to introduce note that Libby took while conversation with Matalin, who used to be PS at OVP, during the conversation Matalin stated that Wilson's a snake, Mr Libby wrote it down. Zeidenberg. These are from Libby's notes, dated July 10. He can't be held accountable for what she said. Mr Libby called Matalin for advice. On July 8 he wrote down notes in which Rove said, people are taking Wilson as a credible expert. 2 days go by, he calls Matalin for advice. She tells him, she gives him strategy. We need someone who can sum it up. This is fitting into Democratic story. It has legs. The story's not going away. We need to address Wilson motivation. The President should wave his wand. "Call Tim," Mary Matalin, he hates Chris, he needs to know it all. Underneath, Mr Libby's notes, Wilson's a snake. As a result, he calls Tim Russert. The fact that he would write that down goes to state of mind. Govt was interested in responding on the merits.

Walton a statement Matalin made, not Libby That's extremely prejudicial. [You think?!?!?!] That would buy into govt's theory that defendant had motive to harm Wilson, and that one of the things that he could do, It's very prejudicial that someone else's mindset.

Zeidenberg. Libby makes clear that in course of conversation, it is telephone conversation he tells FBI that Matalin has a colorful way of speaking. To the extent that they want to argue that that's what Matalin writes, an ad hominem attack about critic.

Walton Marginal probative value. Jury has to speculate that he was adopting her thought.

Zeidenberg. The question is if it's unfairly prejudicial

Walton If I believe someone's a snake.

Zeidenberg. The fact that he would write it down.

Walton. You ain't going to win that one.

[topsecretk9]

as to the above...this note apparently does indicate Libby was calling Tim about Wilson

[clarice]

The note re Mary M indicates she said call Russert..he hates Matthews..which caused an outbreak of laughter in the media room.

[Sue]

Top,

You can infer he was calling Tim about Chris simply from the show he was calling about. That is why Russert doesn't want to tell us what he called about. He would have to admit the entire conversation was about Joe Wilson.

[Ranger]

Apuzzo for the AP writes:

"Libby's attorneys seized on the hesitation and tried to portray Miller as someone who selectively remembers some conversations and not others."

Posted by: politicaobscura | January 31, 2007 at 11:04 AM

Some? Wow, is that an understantement if I ever saw one.

[Sue]

I want to see what Cooper wrote that will impeach him either way.

[topsecretk9]

Sue
I know. I was just thinking that from Libby's perspective the note might not be that bad for him.

[Sue]

I don't think the note is that bad, but I'm not on the jury. And I don't live in DC and suffer BDS. Which is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned! ::grin::

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

I would have loved to see the look on Fitz's face when Matt Cooper said:

'He said VP had not been involved. THen he said, it would come out who was involved in sending him. He said his wife. I until that point didn't know Wilson had a wife.'

[topsecretk9]

Also Sue
--You can infer he was calling Tim about Chris simply from the show he was calling about. That is why Russert doesn't want to tell us what he called about. --

and Fitz has notes that indicate MM told Libby to call Tim about snake Wilson - Fitz only got Tim's side of the conversation and it just doesn't compute that perhaps Libby was calling to complain about Chris Matthew love affair with Wilson?

Big piece of paper and a magic marker?

[Rick Ballard]

Dickerson needs to write a new column about not talking to Cooper either. Otherwise people might think that Fleischer actually did tell Dickerson and Gregory about Plame.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Time's Matt Cooper takes the stand...

[Pofarmer]

So Dickerson works with Cooper and Gregory works with Russert? And Fleischer told em both? And Cooper called Rove asking these criptic questions? And Russert and Libby seem to missremember the same conversation? And nobody thought that was a little too coincidental?

[test]

test

[Pofarmer]

And Russert has no notes, but Libby did/does, but didn't have access to them?

That's rich.

[topsecretk9]

Cooper is trying really hard to defend the premise of his article with very little evidence to support it - he's telegraphing he put words and meaning in people's mouths.

[topsecretk9]

J Is there anything you would call disparaging

MC I do believe this bit about the PM was an effort to criticize Wilson's method while he was in Niger.

J So we understand, if someone reports my report disproves Niger was trying acquire, and official says Iraq WAS trying to acquire, you would qualify this was trying to disparage.

MC in this case, I would.

J War on Wilson was a catchy title.

MC With a question mark.

J notes the word "perhaps." Well, it's in evidence.

[P]

"""Attorney William Jeffress asked Miller to recall the other government officials she spoke to and explain how Wilson's name and phone number got into her notebook prior to the conversation with Libby.

"I don't remember their names. I don't know what you want me to say beyond that," Miller said, adding moments later, "I know I had several conversations but there is no reference to them in my notebook and I have no independent recollection." """""

HOW ABOUT A PEEK AT YOUR PHONE RECORDS??

[Carol Herman]

Judith Miller sets down that Iraq BOUGHT yellow cake in the 1980's BEFORE GULF WAR ONE.

Then? It seems Wilson had "hiked to Niger," not only in 1999. But on trips before that.

And, yes. Miller says Libby was very aggitated at ALL the reports TO THE CIA, from years, (if not more than a decade back). Made by Wilson.

Also, she's sure she never heard Plame's name before Libby told her! Yet she refuses to "remember" anyone else's name.

WHile up ahead? I'd bet that in the comings and goings around DC, there's plenty of evidence that Judith MET Plame. If not in person; then definitely over the phone. BECAUSE TODAY'S TESTIMONY POINTS TO ALL SORTS OF CIA REPORTS DONE BY THE "proliferation" group.

Isn't the media meme: "There never was sales to Iraq? EVER. And, Wilson has had at least 3-CIA sponsored trips.

And, if I had to guess? Wilson, himself, can be asked about his own reports. Since, "like cooper's notes," they impeach one another.

Yet the left stays to it's song. Fitz' case is "air tight." (Well, sometimes, if you're in an air-tight box, you just run out of oxygen.) Makes a person's eyes bug out of their heads.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Fitz’s Folly VI - 1999 Wilson Report Caused Iraq Concerns!

By AJStrata on Plame Game

[Note: Folks, the jem is at the bottom after the fold. To summarize, Wilson went to Niger to debunk his own earlier report from 1999]. Now we have Judith Miller, and the case for the prosecution starts to fall apart more. Key date to hold in your mind while going through all of this is July 8th. On that date the information regarding the NIE (and I believe Wilson’s trip as it related to it) was declassified. So here we go with Miller’s first meeting with Libby on June 23rd and something I noted way back when she first wrote about her meetings - and that is Libby did NOT discuss Wilson by name or occupation at this meeting.

F Did there come a time when you met with Libby

M In OEOB, June 23. (Voice waivers)

M Mr. Libby appeared agitated and frustrated and angry

F HOw could you tell

M He’s a lowkey and controlled guy, what he said made me think I was correct. He was concerned that CIA was beginning to backpdal to distance self from unequivocal estimates it provided before the war through a “perverted war of leaks.”

F Did the topic of Joseph Wilson come up

F What do you recall was said

M His office had learned that he had been sent overseas, initially referred to as clandestine guy. VP had asked about a report in Winter 2002, in Africa, CIA hd sent Mr Wilson out to investigate claim.

F Was Libby saying VP sent WIlson

M the contrary. He said that VP did not know that Mr Wilson had been sent.

2:29

F What he said about Winter 2002 and how it related to trip.

M There had been reports, a report had gone up to the Hill indicating that Iraq hunting for uranium in Niger. VP had asked about those reporters, agency had taken upon itself to find out more. In the beginning he referred to Wilson as clandestine guy.

F Mr. Wilson’s wife (voice not in gerat shape)

M Yes, when he was discussing intell reporting, he said his wife (referring to Wilson) worked in the bureau

If Libby did discuss Wilson only in the abstract of “clandestine guy” then he while he was, in essence, discussing Wilson and Plame he was not using their names and therefore not divulging them to the media. This is absolutely critical. Because this is where Fitzgerald’s whole case implodes. If Libby was going to out Plame he would have used the name “Joe Wilson” at least! But if he was being careful and did not let on about Wilson’s identity, then talking about some mystery guy’s wife is clearly not a campaign against any individual. What is interesting, and I understand it is in cross examination later, is Miller knew the name “Joe Wilson” before she met with Libby because she had talked to him! She had his phone number in her notes. The reason Wilson and variants of Plame’s name are in her notes are not because of Libby - he used ‘clandestine guy’. No one can derive “Joe Wilson” from that. So it is clear that while Libby was trying to hide the specifics about who this clandestine guy was, Miller already knew (and clearly did not tell Libby she knew). Or did she? Interesting question from Walton

Walton Was he using Wilson’s name

M First as a clandestine guy, then began talking about Joe Wilson by name

Question is, did she say something to lead him to understand she knew who the clandestine guy was.

Here is a real trip for Plamiacs. We all know Valerie Plame sent Joe Wilson to Niger in 1999 as well, that 2002 was not his first mission for the CIA to that country. It turns out the report that Iraq and Niger were back at the Yellow Cake dance (they had traded in Yellow Cake prior to the first Gulf War - without the knowledge of the French who supposedly oversaw the trade) in 1999 was from a report by one Joe Wilson from his earlier trip to Niger! There were serious concerns at the time that AQ Kahn, father of the Pakistani Nuclear Bomb, was out selling his knowledge to other muslim countries. As we discussed in one of many earlier posts on this site, that earlier trip was during major upheavels in Niger and after a military coup d’etat. News that Iraq had come calling at this pivotal stage was probably very alarming in non-proliferation circles. It has been my suspicion the CIA bribed some key folks to forego the coup and turn the country into a democracy.

But either way, the report that Iraq might have been talking to Niger about yellow cake which hit the Hill and caused the VP to ask questions, and subsequently send Wilson back to Niger in 2003 - was Wilson’s own earlier report!:

F what discussed. [Judy uncomfortable]

M SAid plenty of info before Powell presentation was given, supporting Iraq hunting uranium, it had been shown that IRaq HAD acquired uranium in Africa, prior to 1st gulf war, in 80s IAEA stated taht Iraq had acquired, after that several different reports that Iraq in market again for uranium. 2 reports, for a long-term arrangement for large quantities, and then a shorter term amount, then referred to anohter report, a third report, the arrival of a delegation in 1999 this delegation was seeking a broader trade relationship, since Niger only had one export, officials had concluded that Iraq was interested in uranium, Author of this report was Joe Wilson. The report had gone up to the Hill. Talking about info provided to Hill, which had prompted VP questions.

F Did he indicate who provided this report

M CIA

How interesting. Wilson went to Niger in 2002 and then came back debunking his own report from 1999? How totally fascinating (and never reported to the American people). So Kristof’s headline should have been “Ex Ambassador changes his mind on Iraq WMD”. Ugh! This is what this was all about? Wilson reported a serious Iraq overture to Niger in 1999 and then goes back in 2002 and debunks his own earlier report? Were they his forgeries as well? More later on Miller if I have time.

[topsecretk9]

Sara

This is unbelievable to me. Wilson debunked his OWN report?

And you are right about Kristof - did he do ANY investigative reporting or does he always just take what people say to him at face value?

[Pete]

Carol Herman said: Yet the left stays to it's song. Fitz' case is "air tight."

He's got a good case but by no means "air tight".

Are you the same Carol Herman who used to say that Donkeys could not win elections?

[Pofarmer]

So Kristof’s headline should have been “Ex Ambassador changes his mind on Iraq WMD”. Ugh!

How about "Kerry Staffer debunks own report and attacks administration."

That would be a great title.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

TS, it is AJ's take. I was blown away by it, so decided to bring it over here for comment. Apologies to AJ for the full quote. He has other Plame messages up as well so give him some hits.

[Molon Labe]

Pete:

hermia (noun): Acute gluteal pain which occurs upon realization you have read five paragraphs into a Carol Herman comment.

[MJW]

Fitz: What was your testimony based on before this jury.

Miller: My independent memory refreshed by my notes.

No trial prep there!

[MJW]

Fitz: What was your testimony based on before this jury.

Miller: My independent memory refreshed by my notes.

No trial prep there!

[Bill in AZ]

A lot of stuff in Coopers cross having to do with Libby disparaging Wilson... after reading AJ's take on it, it looks like Wilson was disparaging Wilson. Maybe Wilson had no independent memory of his 1999 trip.

[jwest]

Is anyone getting EW's Cooper 3 feed?

[topsecretk9]

Bill in AZ
HEH

Jwest
No

[MJW]

I can't believe I posted an unpaired tag. I swear I hit PREVIEW and not POST.

[topsecretk9]

MJW
fugggeetaboutit! no big.

[Ranger]

Fitz: What was your testimony based on before this jury.

Miller: My independent memory refreshed by my notes.

No trial prep there!

Posted by: MJW | January 31, 2007 at 12:49 PM

You think those "No independent memory" answers from last week stung Fitz a bit?

[lurker]

Looks like it stung Fitz quite a bit.

How many more witnesses doe Fitz have left?

[jwest]

Looks like EW's back in business.

Goes to show you what a 1000 sheeple all trying to post "Fitz!" first will do to a server.

[RichatUF]

to Sara(Squiggler), TS9, and others about the Bureau comment::
(crossposted for a previous thread)

Wife works at bureau...ISN

Hearing it was like hearing it for the first time...

Know your sources...

Within two weeks of the release of the September Dossier, attempts to plant the Niger forgeries in British and US intelligence files began. Around October 8, 2002, Rocco Martino began peddling his forgeries...From here the forgeries spread through the US intelligence community via several routes. According to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence’s review, within the State Department, the documents passed from the Italian embassy via the Bureau of Nonproliferation (NP) to the Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR)...

Meanwhile on December 17, 2002, analysts from the CIA’s WINPAC produced a paper, U.S. Analysis of Niger’s Declaration, 7 December 2002... The day after this paper was produced WINPAC, the State Department’s NP, and the NSC began helping prepare a fact sheet to be released following a speech by UN ambassador John Negroponte and a press conference by Secretary of State Colin Powell. Despite a suggestion by the WINPAC Director to change the “Niger” reference to “Africa”, despite a suggestion by an INR analyst to change the phrase “efforts” to “reported efforts”, and despite a check by the State Department’s Office of United Nations Political Affairs with NP to make sure WINPAC had reviewed some last-minute changes to the final draft of the fact sheet, the fact sheet was posted to the State Department’s website with the same language used in WINPAC’s December 17 paper: “efforts to procure uranium from Niger.” ...DOE analyst on December 23, 2002 expressing surprise that WINPAC’s paper had not mentioned that the INR took a skeptical view on the aluminum tube and Niger uranium issues. The DOE analyst mentioned in reply, “it is most disturbing that WINPAC is essentially directing foreign policy in this matter. There are some very strong points to be made in respect to Iraq’s arrogant non-compliance with UN sanctions. However, when individuals attempt to convert those ‘strong statements’ into the ‘knock out’ punch, the Administration will ultimately look foolish--i.e. the tubes and Niger!"

Miller wanted to do a story about Wilson and the forgeries? Maybe how did that info get in there (I'm probably really late)...

RichatUF//time to catch up on the days events

[Javani]

"A lot of stuff in Coopers cross having to do with Libby disparaging Wilson..."

Defense is trying to establish that Libby and Cheney were not acting unusually in responding to what they saw as lies about themselves.

The idea that a response by them would be inappropriate is a strong and tacit assumption in the MSM Wilson-Truth-Teller narrative of this story. Defense has to worry that this seeps into the jury via the media to this day.

[Clbk]

ISN?

Wife works at Department of State INR,
Bureau of Intelligence and Research Department of State or is this the one who is on the intelligence committee or where Larry worked? If Plame worked where Larry worked, that's a different story for Val/Larry/Jim.

[topsecretk9]

Jeffress started out by showing that Cooper puts words in people mouths and then Cooper (choosing a snooty word "elucidate") goes ahead and illustrates it and Jeffress busts his butt

Makes MC read last sentence.

J Insofar as Libby, the pissing contest was whether Wilson got it wrong or not.

MC If I may elucidate. What struck me as a contradiction, on one hand, after Wilson published op-ed, the Admin did something that it rarely does, which is acknowledge a big error. That was a big deal, I was very struck by that. But then I was struck all week by statements that seemed to be disparaging Mr Wilson. They were saying you're right, it shouldn't have been. Then they were saying, he's a momma's boy, his report was bad.

J Who said he was a momma's boy

MC That's my paraphrase about the statement about the wife.

[politicaobscura]

Cooper is slimy.

[Javani]

"If I may elucidate"

Oh dear.

""J Who said he was a momma's boy

MC That's my paraphrase about the statement about the wife""

A little anger there on Cooper's part.

Perhaps he identifies with Joe Wilson in this regard...

[roanoke]

Rich-

From the link you left-

Just after Wilson played “Madison Avenue Mister” building up Africa as a place to invest, from his perch in the National Security Council, he resigned and nearly instantly started a firm known as JC Wilson International Ventures, Corp., a firm specializing in Strategic Management and International Business Development.

It's likely that Wilson was more interested in protecting his future interests rather than the interests of the American people as a whole. To fully circle the redundancy there is at the very least- "a conflict of interest".

If I remember correctly reading the Senate Intelligence Committee Report, Plame offered Wilson for the job with the rationale that -"he's going on a business trip there-anyways." [something to that effect] Also I think there is a claim by Plame or Wilson that they offered to go without being reimbursed or ironically pro bono[for the public good.]

[Sue]

Something else to ponder. When Libby takes the stand, anything he says that isn't consistent with his earlier statements will seem par for the course. Wells and Jeffress have done a good job with regards to warming up the jury to misspeak or misremember. Every witness so far has had that problem. By the time Libby gets on the stand, they will be so accustomed to it, anything Fitz catches him stating differently will just be one more out of many.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Wilson is going to blow a gasket. First he goes off with Grossman because someone describes him as "low level." Then Matilin calls him a snake, followed by Cooper characterizing him as a Momma's Boy. Yikes! The egotistical and arrogant Joe Wilson obviously wasn't either well-liked or well respected.

[roanoke]

Javani-

I wish they'd ask Cooper what his definition of disparaging is-seems to be a bit broad.

Also speaking of conflicts of interest at FDL they were saying that Cooper is married to Mandy Grunwald-a consultant to Hillary and part of the '92 Clinton campaign "war room"..!?

See how I left that question mark there....?

Might be true might not be...

[Enlightened]

Uh, last time I checked Coop - a Momma's boy was someone too old to still be attached to Mommy's skirts. Someone attached to wifey's skirts is pu--ywhipped.

Nice elucidation pal.

[Javani]

""J Isn't the fact that in the lengthy memo, note to file, everything that you've described is in this memo, except anything about Wilson's wife.

MC The Wilson's wife thing is not in the file.

J That means it was not confirmation

MC What I remember

J Are you answering my question or some other memo

MC What I remember is that I took it as confirmation.

J Why not in memo

MC I didn't write it down, but it is my memory, it is what it is.""

It is what it is.

Mem'ries,
They are what they are
Misty rose-colored glasses memorieeeeees,
Of the way we were,

[Enlightened]

Uh, last time I checked Coop - a Momma's boy was someone too old to still be attached to Mommy's skirts. Someone attached to wifey's skirts is pu--ywhipped.

Nice elucidation pal.

[Sue]

Cooper's testimony was a let down. His discrepancy was probably not even noted by the jury.

[centralcal]

With Cooper testifying today that John Dickerson was one of his sources (tsk, tsk, shame on John for lying), isn't it seeming more and more likely that Tim Russert is going to be toast when his turn comes on the witness stand?

[Javani]

Roanoke,

Probably the real-life chatter among Rove, Cooper, Ari, and the plethora of State and CIA bureaucrats that the journalists are protecting is, yes, "Wilson's a momma's boy."

I can imagine Cooper taking offence of at the term, he feeling it hits closely to home.

/psychologist imitation

[politicaobscura]

So, for a national magazine, Cooper takes a "yeah, I heard that too" as confirmation for a major story?

[topsecretk9]

What's interesting is Miller said she didn't perceive a concerted smear campaign, then you have factual rebuttals to Wilson's claims - OVP didn't send him - and now you have Cooper up there doing his damnedest to defend a premise of his own over active imagination or brand of make-believe "gotcha" journalism real.

Cooper interpreted OVP didn't send him to be disparaging. Cooper believed HIS seeking interviews - to be a WAR ON WILSON. Cooper sexed up the quotes. Cooper. Cooper. Cooper.

That juror question to Cathie Martin pops to mind...when the reporters wouldn't listen to you would what they print be a lie (or something like that) and she answered - YES.

[Enlightened]

Well, I said yesterday I think Judy is more involved in this than she wants anyone to know.

I personally can think of only one momma's boy that might REALLY not want her to talk.

[Enlightened]

One thing's for sure - if all the witnesses that have testified so far need to know how they did, they can get an up-to-date analysis right here at JOM.

What a bunch of overly-sensitive maroons.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Time's Cooper: Libby Talk Was 'Off the Record'...

[politicaobscura]

FYI ---

breaking:

CNN and Time Warner to take responsibility for bomb hoaxes in Boston....

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Cooper’s Tale: Libby Trial 1.31 Post 3

[Javani]

"Cooper's testimony was a let down. His discrepancy was probably not even noted by the jury."

One discrepancy is that Cooper's "recollection" of what Libby said to him is verbatim what Rove said he told Novak. FDL shows defense emphasized those words.

Rove will be called for that fact to show Coop could have mistaken Libby's words for Rove's. Others may speculate that Rove will be called to verify Cheney's dark role, but I'll stand by my prediction. :)

[Enlightened]

And so going back to RichatUF:

Look how closely Miller was to the tubes fiasco: From our favorite illegal leaking machine the NYT:

(1:00 a.m.) September 8, 2002
Judith Miller and Michael Gordon of the New York Times report in a front page story that Iraq is trying to obtain materials to build a nuclear weapon. Citing unnamed senior administration officials, they break the story of the aluminum tubes that were confiscated in Jordan in July 2001 (see July 2001) and write that both “American intelligence experts” and top officials believe the tubes were meant to be used as centrifuge rotors in a nuclear enrichment program. “In the last 14 months, Iraq has sought to buy thousands of specially designed aluminum tubes, which American officials believe were intended as components of centrifuges to enrich uranium,” reports the newspaper. “The diameter, thickness and other technical specifications of the aluminum tubes had persuaded American intelligence experts that they were meant for Iraq’s nuclear program ... .”
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=judith_miller

[topsecretk9]

--that both “American intelligence experts” and top officials believe the tubes were meant to be used as centrifuge rotors in a nuclear enrichment program.--

Who is it that flew to Jordan to inspect those tubes?

[lurker]

PPPPLLLLAAAMMMAAAYYY!!!

[Appalled Moderate]

Cooper seems to be doing better than expected, though the visuals of his note taking technique (combined with that picture at firedoglake) were perhaps more than I needed this afternoon.

[Enlightened]

So, I gather it would be useless if we were to ask Judy..Judy..Judy who those American Intelligence Experts were....or the Top Officials......and of course SAO.

This whole Intel/Counterintel family appears highly incestuous.

Highly unlikely Judy did not know Valeryflameplame was a playuh.

[topsecretk9]

One of the juror questions was whether Dickerson provided info to Cooper on the call...which to me means that Ari's having said he told Gregory and Dickerson sunk in.

Dickerson take your suit to the dry cleaners.

[Bill in AZ]

The juror question Walton couldn't ask:
"Why are we here?"

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Hoax in Boston a result of Turner Broadcasting's Cartoon Network. A PR stunt.

Homeland Security calls it an enormous waste of money and resources. 9 benign devices found with cartoon characters painted on them.

Sheesh!

[Hf]

Walton did.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Penalty is 5 years in jail for each device. Looks like Turner Broadcasting is in trouble.

[Patton]

Cooper isn't a reporter...he doesn't write what people tell him; He's an elucidator and a paraphraser.

After that testimony, I would never be a source for him again.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'With Cooper testifying today that John Dickerson was one of his sources (tsk, tsk, shame on John for lying)...'

Not sure Cooper testified that Dickersen was lying. If Cooper already knew about Wilson's wife's role from Rove, then Dickersen's info about Ari saying ask the CIA who sent Wilson is merely confirmation of Rove's story. Dickersen doesn't have to have been told about wifey by Ari.

I think.

[Barney Frank]

Where's Martin?

This newest thread was a little slow in loading for me. I suggest Martin make a substantial donation to JOM so Tom can upgrade.

[Enlightened]

"She also went to Jordan to work with Jordanian intelligence officials who had intercepted a shipment of aluminum tubes heading to Iraq that CIA analysts were claiming--wrongly--were for a nuclear weapons program. (The analysts rolled over the government's top nuclear experts, who had concluded the tubes were not destined for a nuclear program.)"

Plam-ayyyyyyyyy of CIA/CPD/JTFI? CIA ANALYST? CIA says yes to the tubes? Then no? So she Jon Carry'ed the tube fiasco? And Judy..Judy..Judy was hunting it down from the other side? And knew NOTHING about Plam'ayyyyyyy?????

Yeah, ok. Going to watch some pigs fly for awhile.

The circle is getting smaller and smaller.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060918/corn

Hmmm.

[lurker]

OT:

Watch for the Leak

Documents now released to Leahy, Specter, other lawmakers, and staffers. Have they signed a NDA?

[Rick Ballard]

Tomorrow it's some video, then FBI Agent Bond, then GJ, then Russert. Fitz says he'll wrap up by Mon-Tues.

Wells is going to call Abramson.

That will make for a nice liars contest.

[centralcal]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. No, Cooper did not testify that Dickerson was lying. He did testify that Dickerson was his second (I think, 2nd) source. And you are right that Ari may not have said what he claims to have said to Dickerson, et al. But, if he did, then Dickerson has been untruthful in his written accounts.

According to the FDL blog, a juror question was asked:

Walton: during the conversaton with Dickerson, did he relay any information to you that he had received over there.

MC: Yes

Cooper's answer was not very "elucidating," huh? Perhaps even a little protective?

[Enlightened]

Lurker....speaking of NYT leaks....

Libby knew there were leaks and it was really starting to tee him off.

He obviously got very close to the silver tuna. And then voila' or is that voil'ayyyy- NYT to Joey Wilson's defense.

Circle is getting smaller. Libby got too close.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'Wells a rule 29 conversation, the July 12 conversation, given the way she testified, we're going to take the position that that prong of obstruction cannot stand.'

I think they're going to move to have the obstruction charge thrown out based on Judy's testimony.

[azaghal]

Sorry if someone else picked up on this--I can't stay up to date with my dialup. This is from Breitbart on Cooper's testimony:

Cooper, the second reporter to testify at Libby's perjury and obstruction trial, recalled a July 12, 2003 telephone conversation in which he asked Libby whether prominent war critic Joseph Wilson's wife was behind a CIA-sponsored trip to investigate an Iraqi uranium deal.

Cooper testified Wednesday that Libby responded with the off-the- record comment, "Yeah, I've heard that too," or "Yeah, I've heard something like that, too."

Reporters normally take off-the-record comments as guidance that cannot be used in print.

That seems rather huge to me. If the big case is in play at this trial, the fact that Libby was off the record goes no only toward Cooper's credibility for past statements but also toward the whole theory that Libby was part of a conspiracy.

[Enlightened]

Hey wait a minute. Just going back to RichatUF and this popped out:

"Despite a suggestion by the WINPAC Director to change the “Niger” reference to “Africa”,"

So tell me, why did our pal Joey title his OpEd in the NYT "What I didn't find in AFRICA"?????? He did not cover the whole of Africa. So there's his jumping off lie.

So in essence didn't (or shouldn't they have)everyone in the loop know the director of WINPAC was Valeryflameplameplam-ay?

Or did the Director of WINPAC instruct Joey how to title his OpEd? Did Joey even WRITE the OpEd? Or did Joey gallantly jump on the sword when Valeryflameplameplam-ayyy needed someone to take the heat off WINPAC for f--king up the tubes and now Niger, I mean Africa?

Curiouser and Curiouser

[JM Hanes]

TM:
Neil Lewis can't hold a (waxy) candle to the Wapo's Carol Leonnig today. Here's how she sets up Miller's testimony in a story subtitled "Miller Testifies of White House Aide's Unmasking of Agent":

Former New York Times reporter Judith Miller yesterday helped the prosecutor who landed her in jail and forced her into the witness chair, providing potentially damaging information about the confidential administration source she tried to shield, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

Miller, rehabilitated as Defender of the Faith, burnishes her shield... You may recall Leonnig as the author of one of the most outrageous of the articles triggering the brouhaha which led to Fitzgerald's "clarification" on the key findings bit in the NIE -- an article which appears to have been substantively altered in the interim (without any acknowledgment of such "corrections" appended, btw.). I'll check to see if I preserved the original text somewhere, but the search terms I used to google this piece up from the Wapo were:

"Carol D. Leonnig" fingered cheney.

You'll notice nary a fingering in the version currently on display. [You can thank me later, h&r] Making such ex post facto changes online is kind of like thinking you've actually deleted your emails when you empty your trash.

[azaghal]

For the sake of completeness, I see that the WSJ article is linked at Drudge (it's not at Opinionjournal). The link is too long to post here, but you can go to Drudge.

[lurker]

Arlen Specter is thinking about submitting a resolution to clarify Article 2, section 2 of the US Constitution?

Sickening.

Judy Miller's testimony appear to me that she was coached by her lawyers to recite those "I don't remember" comments over and over.

[Rick Ballard]

Libby Trial Puts Reporters' Recall To a Severe Test

WSJ link from azaghal.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Mr. Armitage, how many times did you interview with Judy Miller between May and July?

[topsecretk9]

Or did the Director of WINPAC instruct Joey how to title his OpEd? Did Joey even WRITE the OpEd? Or did Joey gallantly jump on the sword when Valeryflameplameplam-ayyy needed someone to take the heat off WINPAC for f--king up the tubes and now Niger, I mean Africa?

Curiouser and Curiouser

Posted by: Enlightened | January 31, 2007 at 02:37 PM

I concur.

[Sue]

All these reports in the newspapers should be put into evidence. There is a precedence. Fitzgerald claimed Comey was watching over him via the newspaper. Libby could submit that WaPo article to the jury and ask them, is that what you saw here in the last few days?

[Dan S]

lurker...

I don't buy that coaching bit. I didn't see any notes, how would she remember?

[azaghal]

Sorry, in that previous quote from Breitbart I unintentionally left out something important:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Former Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper testified Wednesday that a key conversation with White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby in the CIA leak case was off the record, a description that appeared to be at odds with his written account of the interview.

Cooper, the second reporter to testify at Libby's perjury and obstruction trial, recalled a July 12, 2003 telephone conversation in which he asked Libby whether prominent war critic Joseph Wilson's wife was behind a CIA-sponsored trip to investigate an Iraqi uranium deal.

Cooper testified Wednesday that Libby responded with the off-the- record comment, "Yeah, I've heard that too," or "Yeah, I've heard something like that, too."

Reporters normally take off-the-record comments as guidance that cannot be used in print. In a 2005 Time story recounting his involvement in the case, Cooper said his conversation with Libby was "on background," a condition that normally allows the material to be used in print but without a name attached to it.

[lurker]

I meant that Judy kept saying "I don't remember" or something similar. She's protecting herself.

[Pofarmer]

If the big case is in play at this trial, the fact that Libby was off the record goes no only toward Cooper's credibility for past statements but also toward the whole theory that Libby was part of a conspiracy.

I heard that too is supposed to be confirmation for a major story, with no attribution? That's pretty slack "journalism" although not surprising. Cooper comes across as strictly a tabloid type.

[Pofarmer]

So, what's the chance that Judy knew Plame? With all the things they'd kind of coincided on, wouldn't it be rather odd of her not to of at least heard of her? Is good ole Judy the center of the storm?

[topsecretk9]

azaghal

Aside from coming off as if he thinks he's more clever than anyone else in the world, do you think he just tanked his chances of juicy scoops?

[ghostcat]

Welcome to Serpentology 101.

[Pofarmer]

Arlen Specter is thinking about submitting a resolution to clarify Article 2, section 2 of the US Constitution?

RINO's on parade. Lovely. Who decided to campaign for this guy?

[JM Hanes]

Sue:

"Cooper's testimony was a let down. His discrepancy was probably not even noted by the jury."

From the questions Walton's been passing along, this jury seems pretty savvy so far. In any case, if you shout Gotcha! too loud, the prosecution will undercut you on re-direct.

It's worth remembering that the Defense has yet to begin making its actual case, which is where the footwork they're doing now will pay off. Pacing is key, and I suspect they'll be saving their Perry Mason moments, if they've got 'em -- or if they need to look like they've got 'em -- for further down the line when they control the narrative.

[Enlightened]

I think Joe Wilson comes across as ultra protective of VPW.

And I think that is how a husband would react if his lil ole wife said "honey I might be in some trouble here".

Then I think she said, we need to get before the news cycle and report that Niger was a bust so we can keep some street crd.

Then I think our pal Joe said honey, let me jump on that sword for you. I've got the CRED, no one is going to question me. If they do get too close, you can just say you are covert or something and keep it all classified.

See, Joe started out with a OpEd title that was previously suggested by only the Director of WINPAC in a classified document.

I'm getting the impression that several avenues were being travelled here.

Miller on hers
Libby on his
VPW and JW on theirs

Somewhere along the route the truth had to be squelched.

[JM Hanes]

tops:

"Who is it that flew to Jordan to inspect those tubes?"

You are soooo good! That's exactly the kind of rabbit from the hat trick I was talking about yesterday. How you manage to remember all this stuff is beyond my ken. Got notes?

[Jane]

Let's not forget that Cooper is married to a big Hillary operative - I think it is Mandy Grumwald, but like Libby, Fleisher, Grossman, Miller, Cooper, etc. I have some memory problems.