Behind The Green Room Door

How does Tim Russert invite Byron York on his show and avoid a discussion of the Libby trial?  Easy - he surrounds himself with guests talking about Presidential politics.

When Tim starts appearing with children and puppies, we'll know he has run out of hostages.

Comments

[bad]

Tim Russert stinks.

[hit and run]

Hi bad!

Yeah, first time I watched MTP in probably 5 years, thinking there might be something to Byron being on there.

I feel stoopid for such naive expectations.

And used.

[clarice]

Picky, picky..Children and puppies aren't all bad.

[bad]

H&R You can still repect yourself in the morning.

Additionally, Russert has cooties.

[Deagle]

Worse... How does Bryan York go on the show and NOT discuss the Libby trial? I blame York!

[Other Tom]

It didn't surprise me one bit. It's Russert's show, and he gets to pick the topics.

[hit and run]

I did like the MoDo appearance via monitor.

Reinforces the impression of her being behind the TimesSelect wall.

Which comforts me to know end.

[hit and run]

*no end* eh, whatever. Like I've ever tried to represent that I no what I'm talking about.

[hit and run]

**know what I'm talking about.**

Cripes. Know way I'll get hung up about spelling/grammar.

[bad]

York is biding his time. He'll say what needs to be said when the time is right. His hair is sooooooooo awesome you just knooooow you can trust him. Unlike some peoplr who only think they have great hair. wink wink nudge nudge say no more, say no more!!!

[Deagle]

Other Tom,

Well, if Mr. York can't work the Libby trial into the conversation, I blame him. Is he a Newspaper reporter or not? The only reason left is that he is afraid that he will never get another appearance (oh lovely money and fame) which destroys any credibility he had anyway.

Either he says/prints what he believes or get the heck out of the business.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Keep the faith on the investigation into leaks to the MSM

[Ralph L.]

I read a story about MoDo's first television appearance on Nightline, where they changed topics without telling her, so she just sat there and looked stupid. Brit Hume had to cover for her, I guess because he's a gent.

[Deagle]

Sara,

Hope that article is true (becomes true)... Thanks,

[Ralph L.]

Deputy Attorney General Paul J. McNulty in Sara's link.
I can't believe Hillary let a major member of the Starr team get confirmed by the Senate. Maybe she isn't mean, petty, and vindictive. Or was she out that day?

[Christopher Fotos]

Worse... How does Bryan York go on the show and NOT discuss the Libby trial?

Yeah, I was disappointed too. The show has turned into a rehab unit anyway, not only with Tim but Doris Kearns Goodwin.

I don't know what I would have done were I Byron (seems like a good guy, chatted him up briefly at NRO's 10-year anniversary party). I want National Review types to have access to those venues, and if you refuse to appear on it absent trashing the host on his own show, you may be spiting yourself and your cause. Still, it's hard not to regard it as cooperating in repairing Tim's reputation.

[Daniel]

One thing of interest in the Libby case is its strange parallel to the Dreyfus case that roiled France in the 1890s.
French military intelligence discovered a leak; a maid in the German Embassy working for France found a torn up document apparently supplied by a French officer, containing “military secrets.”
An investigation was immediately launched, and the investigators soon focused their attention on a young officer named Alfred Dreyfus. He was, objectively, not a very likely candidate for being a spy, but he was an Alsatian Jew and that apparently was enough to convince the investigators that he was their man.
Of course there was no evidence at all against him. He was happily married, not in debt, had no particular vices or bad habits and was boringly middle class. All the more reason to suspect him, for French intelligence.
Nevertheless, he was brought to trial. Evidence against him was supplied by (not particularly honest) handwriting experts who claimed he had written the document; the defense supplied as many experts who claimed he could not have done so.
The prosecutor realized that his case was weak, so he pulled a fast one, analogous to Fitzgerald’s rebuttal escapade. He sent a document to the jury, unbeknownst to the defense, which claimed there was convincing evidence against the defendant which could not be revealed because of the military secrets it contained.
So Dreyfus was convicted.
In consequence, he was drummed out of the army and confined to solitary confinement on ”Devil’s Island”, in the Caribbean.
His relatives constantly pushed for an investigation of what seemed to them an utterly unjustified and incomprehensible verdict.
Also, the investigators soon discovered that Dreyfus was not the leaker. A French ne’er do well Major, a roué and gambler, highly in debt, Major Eszterhazy, was discovered by them to have produced the original document..
But by this time, to admit this would, in the opinion of the French army, or at least of those involved, would have embarrassed the government and the army, and called into question the French justice system.
They decided to suppress this information, to preserve their honor.
Does this sound familiar? A leak. A an uninvolved defendant located. The leaker found and information about him suppressed? The case contaminated by improper last minute prosecution behavior?
And Dreyfus of course remained in solitary confinement on Devil’s Island.
But that was not the end of the story.
Eventually Major Eszterhazy’s guilt became known to the public, but the French military authorities apparently believed that the disgrace of admitting their error was unacceptable to them. There was a second trial which ended exactly as the first.
An honest member of the investigating group, realizing Dreyfus’s utter innocence, tried to get his superiors to release him. He, (Colonel Picquart) was, as result transferred to the infantry and sent to fight in North Africa with the hope that he would die there.
Still more eventually Zola became involved, the scandal ripped France apart, everyone involved was disgraced, though half of France disgraced itself by supporting them, one of the original investigators committed suicide, and France was made the laughing stock of Europe. Dreyfus was released and went back to the French army,

[Charlie (Colorado)]

is he a Newspaper reporter or not?

Is National Review a newspaper?

[Deagle]

Christopher,

Yes, I was very disappointed also. I keep thinking that reporters would not only tell the truth, but push their agenda (against the host if required), regardless of the outcome. I know, a bit naive...but I always have hope.

One of these days...

[Deagle]

Charlie,

Yes, in the sense that all Newspapers will become both ink and other media. It does not really matter the media (ink or digital). I consider newspapers and bloggers media in the general sense... So, yes, York was derelict in his duty...

[clarice]

The actor, Richard Dreyfus, is one of Alfred Dreyfus'relatives.

[Christopher Fotos]

The actor, Richard Dreyfus, is one of Alfred Dreyfus'relatives.

Wow. What a world.

[SunnyDay]

Kirsten Powers and Michelle Malkin are doing a show about bloggers right now.

[Carol Herman]

So, TUBBY's jumped the shark, huh?

I guess we'll see if NBC has Invisible Hand "powers." Or not. Since Byron York is fwee to write about his "up close and personal" time on TV.

And, maybe, like a soldier in Iraq, York give an arm and a leg for world peace, huh?

Do people turn in Meet The Depressed to see if it's collapsing slowly? Or it get hits with a bang, and is a road accident?

The Oscar's also appear dullsville, per Drudge.

[Neo]

A Nonpartisan Reputation at Stake: For Prosecutor, Libby Verdict May Mean Vindication or Political Taint

[Other Tom]

I think the hosts and the guests on all of those shows observe certain professional courtesies. Anyone of any political stripe who breaches them stops showing up.

[Deagle]

CH,

Yep, drudgeville sounds about right... Darn, Meet the Press would seem lively about now...even without the York miseries.

[Neo]

Leak Trial Reveals Flaws in Note-Taking

I wonder if these guys read their own stuff ?

[Deagle]

Oh boy... Clint Eastwood in on... Shall we calibrate or moan...?

[Neo]

And just for Tim ..

Shield repealed: When everybody buys ink by the barrel, who's entitled to press privilege?

[Deagle]

Oooh!... That article tickles my imaginary ink stained fingers! Thanks, even if I'm not Tom...

[Deagle]

Whoops...Sorry TIM...

[bad]

I find it hard to believe that a woman who had been out on maternity leave and then suffered PPD so severely she joined a therapy support group would be welcomed back to a highly sensitive job at CIA.

Do we know for a fact that Val had post partum? Joining a therapy group could just be cover for taking a year off. After all, being covert in the past means she was used to playing a part that had no basis in reality. Before someone gets nutsy about "insensitivity" etc., think about it. Maybe the CIA needed some separation and a reason to begin the transition to State. Or maybe Val needed some time to deal with the transition to family.

[Ralph L.]

"...guests on all of those shows observe certain professional courtesies" which reminds me, in more ways than one, about the lawyer not eaten by sharks due to professional courtesy.

[Tom Maguire]

I want National Review types to have access to those venues, and if you refuse to appear on it absent trashing the host on his own show, you may be spiting yourself and your cause. Still, it's hard not to regard it as cooperating in repairing Tim's reputation.

TO BE FAIR: Gregory and Russert have made it clear (on Imus) that they are gagged until the trial is over.

At which point, Gregory can decide which prosecution witness he wants to trash.

I'm really liking my "Hopped up on Sudafed and Ambien, can't remember a thing" explanation.

[JM Hanes]

Neo:

Aside from the usual background errors, that WaPo article is about as close to straightforward as Carol Leonnig has ever gotten -- although her regular readers will be surprised to discover that there's actually been a "debate over whether Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald should have brought the case in the first place."

[clarice]

WHen the duct tape is off and he talks, let's run his explanation side by side w/ his hectoring McClellan about Rove and Libby when he knew all about it from Fleischer..or Fleischer and Harlow (depending on what version of the story he tells--Dickerson's or Fleischer's).

[Deagle]

Well, lets see, Post Partum depression. I believe that is more a state of denial than anything else..(for the most part)..,ie, scared to have to take care of somebody else except themselves (or don't want to).

It's getting so that today, all you have to do is conjure up a description of something that requires medical treatment and you can skate. I'm sorry, but the whole excuse of Post Partum is just a crock as far as I'm concerned. It boils down to selfishness.

Yes, I can understand the symptoms, but they are the result of upbringing...ie., I before all others...

[Dave in W-S]

Does the new tack by Leonnig and the WaPo indicate an attempt to get ahead of an acquittal story? Or just a case of nerves?

[PuzzledLurker]

I've come over here because I've heard of the good Libby analysis by TM. But I'm a bit surprised at some of the comments:

"Normally, the left would be up in arms against this kind of thing. Except in both cases, the only people targeted so far are Jews neocons.... You would think Jeralyn, for one, would be fair enough to see the danger in this kind of thing; the negative implications. But even she 'wants to get Cheney.'" Alcibiades | February 24, 2007 at 08:54 PM

Is Fitzpatrick a Jew hater? Does Alcibiades think Cheney is a Jew?

"Is being pregnant with twins and on maternity leave an official CIA cover? Is a year off for psyche problems due to post partum depression an official CIA cover?" Sara (Squiggler) | February 24, 2007 at 09:40 PM

It strikes me as a tad mean-spirited to discuss such private matters. "The wife" did not bring charges against Libby, and dishing the dirt on her doesn't help him.

Is this generally the tone around here, or are people just getting a bit cranky waiting for the verdict?

[bad]

"The wife" did not bring charges against Libby, and dishing the dirt on her doesn't help him.

You are absolutely right! Her totally classy move was to file a civil suit.

[Another Bob]

PuzzledLurker | February 25, 2007 at 08:29 PM

I suspect there is a touch of crankiness about.

But you should remember that "the wife" was a knowing participant in these events, not an innocent bystander.

[Rick Ballard]

bad,

Boondoggle first, then watching hubby lie like a Persian rug after signing on with the Kerry campaign, then giggling through Corn's fairy tale being bought by a mindlessly slavering MSM, then the totally classless Vanity Fair cover, then...

I'm tired somebody else can fill in blanks.

Puzzled Lurker,

There is a definite POV in comments that Tom is cautious about in his posts. He has provided excellent analysis all along and if your interest lies solely in his analysis then there is a plethora of posts with which to occupy yourself.

[Foo Bar]

WHen the duct tape is off and he talks, let's run his explanation side by side w/ his hectoring McClellan about Rove and Libby when he knew all about it from Fleischer..or Fleischer and Harlow (depending on what version of the story he tells--Dickerson's or Fleischer's).

How does what Fleischer told Gregory have any bearing on the fact that either what Rove told McClellan or what McClellan said he had been told by Rove was false? McClellan said Libby and Rove had assured him they were not involved in this. This was indisputably false in the case of Rove. Rove was Novak's confirming source.

[UncleCharlie]

Very true. Valerie Plame brought a civil case, and she therefore is fair game for our discussing any dirt we can about her. I bet her mother wears army boots! She didn't just suffer from depression, but she has big ears and an ugly nose, and did you ever see her boney knees?

And Daniel (7:01pm) is right on! Fitzgerald will be revealed as an anti-semite, and the United States will become the laughing stock of the world for as everyone eventually realizes that Bush and Cheney were right about all the claims they made before the war.

[Other Tom]

I note with pleasure (from the picture on Drudge) that Mr. Algore has logged some serious knife-and-fork overtime of late.

Hate to disappoint our guest who dropped in for the serious commentary. With the court in recess, there's been a general kicking back around here over the weekend. Hey, we owe it to ourselves!

[clarice]

Just another example of the press knowing more about Plame than anyone in the WH did and pretending they didn't..Ditto w/ knowing who leaked and acting as though they didn't.
If Fleischer told Gregory that Plame worked in the CIA and sent Wilson, why didn't Gregiry ask about Fleischer or tell what he knew and how instead of playing get Rove and Libby?

[windansea]

Foo Bar

somebody told me you were a troll

I said I've heard that too

I'm not confirming it mind you, just that I've heard it

[Other Tom]

"Rove was Novak's confirming source." Reasonable minds can differ. If I were Rove, I would not have understood myself to be a confirming source, and I would not consider that I had been "involved in this."

He took a call, as opposed to making one, and he was relatively non-commital, even if you accept Novak's version.

[MayBee]

Foo Bar-
even if they aren't directly related, don't you think it's kind of funny if Gregory got a leak and then went on to harangue McClellan about the leaks. It seems that Gregory was basically saying, there was pool! Right there in River City!

[bad]

Rick
I still believe that Munchy and wife started off as Kerry suck-ups hoping for a place in Kerry's administration. Then Cornball provided a way for them to attack the Bush admin and cash in via the lawsuit. They got to rake in speaking fees along the way and sell "the book". Meanwhile they were negotiaating for more big bucks via Val's book. Where does that stand by the way? It has been financial all along for munchy and wife and they have just enough agility to stay one jump in front of the left's CW. They need to worry about whetther or not their children will be students of history in the future.

[Foo Bar]

Foo Bar

somebody told me you were a troll

I said I've heard that too

I'm not confirming it mind you, just that I've heard it

Yeah, I heard that, too, at the bottom of this post.

[Christopher Fotos]

Aside from the usual background errors, that WaPo article is about as close to straightforward as Carol Leonnig has ever gotten -- although her regular readers will be surprised to discover that there's actually been a "debate over whether Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald should have brought the case in the first place."

Well, as I said at the time (in an update there), the first part of the story has a decent pro-and-con but in addition to "the usual background errors" the last third or so is pure Fitzgerald cheerleading. And misleading cheerleading, with Eliot Ness deftly prompting Hannah to "admit" the two-hour meeting with Miller "to complain about Wilson" signified how important that affair was to Libby. Yet it seems the NIE may well have been the main point of that conversation, not that you can tell from that story.

[Tom Maguire]

McClellan said Libby and Rove had assured him they were not involved in this. This was indisputably false in the case of Rove. Rove was Novak's confirming source.

So said Novak. Rove told the FBI that he had heard Novak out on the Plame topic but not said much in response, and thought the second official must be someone else.

Rove may have been sincere in thinking that "I heard that, too" was not a confirmation.

Of course, he and Novak may have cooked up a story, but they have stuck to it.

And Novak did have Harlow's chat to go with, too, so arguably he didn't need much from Rove.

FWIW, Murray Waas had this:

Although FBI investigators did not know of the Rove-Cooper phone call, they were skeptical about Rove's account of his July conversation with Novak. Both Rove and Novak have since said that Rove was one of "two senior administration officials" cited as sources in Novak's column.

According to the accounts of their conversation that both Rove and Novak later gave to investigators, the subject of Wilson's trip to Niger and any role played by Plame came up at the very end of a conversation on an entirely different matter.

Rove told the FBI that when Novak mentioned Plame's CIA connection and that she might have played a role in selecting her husband to go to Niger, he (Rove) simply said that he had heard much the same information. According to sources, Novak later told investigators a virtually identical story.

Ashcroft was advised during the fall 2003 briefings that investigators had strong doubts about Novak's and Rove's accounts of their July 9 conversation. The investigators were skeptical that Novak would have relied merely on an offhand comment from Rove as the basis for writing his column about Plame.

Everyone's a critic! The FBI didn't believe "I heard that, too" was confirmation, but wait'll they get a load of Cooper.

Anyway, if they didn't believe it, why should Rove?

[Rick Ballard]

bad,

I doubt that the CIA will sanction her book and if she proceeds without sanction then there is the matter of her NDA and potential loss of pension. I have no idea as to how the deworming of the CIA is progressing but I somehow doubt that permission from the vetting department will be forthcoming in the near future.

[UncleCharlie]

I agree with Other Tom (8:47) that Al Gore really looks like a fat porker.

Check out this video to see the taunting audience reaction. I hope Al was really embarrassed, for his cynically playing to the bleeding heart liberals for his own personal gain.

[clarice]

tm:"Everyone's a critic! The FBI didn't believe "I heard that, too" was confirmation, but wait'll they get a load of Cooper.

Anyway, if they didn't believe it, why should Rove?"

heh! Even Time didn't consider "I heard that, too" to be confirmation and help up the story until Cooper had [made up]more.

Maybe that's what Viveca Novak told Rove's lawyer...Time did not consider that confirmation.

[Foo Bar]

Foo Bar-
even if they aren't directly related, don't you think it's kind of funny if Gregory got a leak and then went on to harangue McClellan about the leaks

At that particular press briefing, he was haranguing McClellan about having previously said something (Rove not being involved) that turned out to be flat-out false. Novak took it as confirmation. Even if Rove honestly didn't think he (or Cooper) would take it as confirmation, I can't accept the kind of categorical and vehement denials that McClellan issued in light of Rove's "I heard that, too". McClellan was saying the whole idea of involvement was ridiculous.

[Foo Bar]

Rove may have been sincere in thinking that "I heard that, too" was not a confirmation.

Do you really think Rove could have been sincere in thinking it was appropriate for McClellan to characterize the idea of Rove's involvement as ridiculous?

[clarice]

At the time the two leaks were to Novak and Newsday and to neither did Rove give any detailed information..When even Time whose standards scrap bottom considers "I heard the same thing" is NOT confirmation, why should Rove have?

[Foo Bar]

investigators had strong doubts about Novak's and Rove's accounts of their July 9 conversation ...

Anyway, if they didn't believe it, why should Rove?

Was it beyond Rove's capabilities to call up Novak after the fact and ask him whether he had taken Rove's comment as confirmation? Remember, President Bush was encouraging everyone to be as cooperative as possible so we could get this all cleared up!

[Retired]

Gossip = "I heard that, too"
Confirmation = "Yeah, that's true"

[UncleCharlie]

Do you really think Rove could have been sincere in thinking it was appropriate for McClellan to characterize the idea of Rove's involvement as ridiculous?

Potent question. Apparently a difficult question to answer head on.

[MayBee]

Was it beyond Rove's capabilities to call up Novak after the fact and ask him whether he had taken Rove's comment as confirmation?

Do you call and doublecheck every time you think you aren't involved in something?

[Foo Bar]

Anyway, according to Cooper Rove freely offered the info about Wilson's wife to him (as opposed to "I heard that, too"). Cooper said this was the first he had heard of Wilson's wife being at the CIA. But I guess that's consistent with "they were not involved with this" because "this" referred only to the events leading to Novak's column (and not other leaking), huh? Or Cooper's account is just not accurate, I suppose ;).

Do you call and doublecheck every time you think you aren't involved in something?

If there was a federal investigation going on, and upon reflection it seemed to me to be unlikely but still conceivable that I had been involved, I would hope I would call to double-check.

[MayBee]

My guess is that Karl Rove didn't really care much about what Scott McClellan had to say or what difficulties he got himself into, rhetorically. It became obvious there was a war going on between the two of them in the press- when was that, the summer of 2004?
I'm not saying that's proper behavior from Rove, I'm just saying that Rove would have known that any problem between McClellan and Rove would see Rove come out on top.

[Ralph L.]

I believe Rove's lawyer would probably have murdered him if he had called Novak at that point.

[MayBee]

Do you call and doublecheck every time you think you aren't involved in something?

If there was a federal investigation going on, and upon reflection it seemed to me to be unlikely but still conceivable that I had been involved, I would hope I would call to double-check.

My theory has always been that at the time they were still making any public statements, they all thought it was a stupid, politically motivated, baseless investigation and controversy that would just go away.
I think that's what got them into trouble, making it look like they were lying when they just hadn't paid that much attention to preparing to testify.

[clarice]

Ralph is right. The SP would certainly have considered such a call obstruction--although he didn't mind Armitage's fiddling w/ Novak thru Duberstein or his manipulating Grossman's testimony.

[Foo Bar]

My guess is that Karl Rove didn't really care much about what Scott McClellan had to say or what difficulties he got himself into, rhetorically

You think the White House Chief Political Strategist for a first-term president a year away from reelection didn't care what the White House press secretary was saying to the press?

[JM Hanes]

Foo Bar:

I've been meaning to apologize for singling you out for my thread jacking complaint awhile back. If you don't object, maybe we could just write it off as a bad hair day on my part.

And yes, considering everything we've learned about Plame central at the State Dept. in this saga, I think the massively inflated meme of White House involvement is ridiculous.

[JM Hanes]

Deagle:

"Yes, I can understand the symptoms, but they are the result of upbringing...ie., I before all others..."

You simply don't know what you're talking about.

[windansea]

If I heard that Foo Bar was a troll I would be truthful if I said I had heard that

I would not be a source for that info, and I would not be confirming it either, I would merely be answering honestly that I had heard it too.

and my press secretary would be honest in saying I had nothing to do with the outing of Foo Bar as a troll...I was not the original source of this info and did not confirm it by saying...Yes...Foo Bar is a troll

[Deagle]

Possibly, but I still stand by my statement...
After all, it could be that you do not know what you are talking about...

Opinions differ and are widely varied, especially within the so-called scientific community...

[Foo Bar]

The SP would certainly have considered such a call obstruction

OK, you may be right about that, although if the net result of the call was to clarify in Rove's mind that he *had* been a source I'm not sure the SP would have been all that upset.

I still can't accept those vehement, categorical denials when Rove knew what he had said to Novak.

JMH: no need to apologize. And your hair is looking lovely today!

I would not be confirming it either

Yet one of the most prominent veteran Washington columnists, with more than 40 years of experience, might take it as confirmation.

[MayBee]

I think once McClellan said what he said, Rove wouldn't want him to go back and correct it because that would look ridiculous and guilty. I think he thought the controversy would go away, or Novak's real source -Armitage- would be discovered.

Remember this was neither the first nor the last time Dems were throwing some sort of fit for which the only solution was Karl Rove stepping down. He wasn't going to get too invested in each hit job as performance art the Dems came up with. This was Armitage's problem, not Rove's.

[Deagle]

My comment was made to JM Hanes...just to clarify...

[Alcibiades]

"Normally, the left would be up in arms against this kind of thing. Except in both cases, the only people targeted so far are Jews neocons.... You would think Jeralyn, for one, would be fair enough to see the danger in this kind of thing; the negative implications. But even she 'wants to get Cheney.'" Alcibiades | February 24, 2007 at 08:54 PM

---""Is Fitzpatrick a Jew hater? Does Alcibiades think Cheney is a Jew?""

Posted by: PuzzledLurker | February 25, 2007 at 08:29 PM---

Now I'm puzzled.

You mean Cheney isn't?

After all of this time, how is it possible?

Hey, did you notice that two paragraphs fell into the lacunae you made in my comment? Put them back and a normative reading of what I wrote would not allow you to reach the conclusion you created with use of that ellipsis.

Your method does illustrate a useful point, however, that has something to do with the conversation yesterday evening. Choose your language carefully enough and it creates, by implication, a meaning that is not present in the plain sense of the words.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Deagle -- PPD is not psychological, it is hormonal at its root and almost all women experience some form of it after giving birth. Usually it is a very mild sense of the blues and lasts only a couple of days or so. But, some women experience a much more severe bout of PPD that can last a long time and in the extreme form can cause psychosis.

You don't need scientists to explain it, ask any woman who has given birth. Ask me. I experienced a very mild bout of PPD about 3 days after the birth of my son and by the time I was at home with him, it was over. I spent six days in the hospital. However, a friend of mine who gave birth just a month later experienced severe PPD and it was months before she could bond with her baby and could get her life back to anything resembling normal. Her husband took the newborn to his mother's during the time his wife was in too depressed a state to cope.

[BarbaraS]

One thing this whole investigation has shown is that the press saying the Bush administraion doesn't talk to them is a lie. Maybe the administration now knows who they can safely talk to now and who they need to stay away from.

It amazes me how some people suddenly become experts on both physical diseases and diseases of the mind. Post partum depression hits all new mothers to one degree of another. And anyone who disputes this has never actually borne a baby.

[Foo Bar]

I think once McClellan said what he said, Rove wouldn't want him to go back and correct it because that would look ridiculous and guilty

This makes it sound like McClellan was spouting off without checking with Rove, but what he said was "I spoke with those individuals, as I pointed out, and those individuals assured me they were not involved in this." So either McClellan hadn't actually spoken with Rove as he said, or what McClellan was saying was already based on what Rove told him.

Anyway, I do believe I've extracted an implicit concession from you that McClellan's characterization of Rove's involvement was incorrect (i.e. needed correcting) and it didn't get corrected for political reasons. I'll take it!

[Ralph L.]

From David Frum's Dairy at NRO:
"Which raises this final thought - what will happen to Richard Armitage? Here's a guy who - according to Democrats and liberals - was the true author of the national security crime of the century, our contemporary equivalent of Julius Rosenberg. Yet he continues to run his business, go to parties, be quoted in news stories. He's a completely accepted and acceptable member of Washington society. And as I search even the lefty blogs, I see no particular animus directed his way. How can that be? Would you invite the Rosenbergs to your dinner party or international conference? Could it be that even the Plame-case enthusiasts secretly understand that this whole case is much ado about nothing?"
He didn't notice any anti-Armitage animus at all? Obviously not reading the right blogs.

[windansea]

I can't believe we are arguing the meaning of "I heard that too"

This is a great big game of gotcha politics and I am quite sure nobody meant to out a secret agent and harm our national security.

Valerie Plame got outed because:

1.she suggested Joe for a boondoggle/mission

2.the Cia did not require Joe to sign a non disclosure

3. Joe got miffed, and lied to Pincus and Kristoff, got more miffed and wrote his article

4. Armitage blabbed to Novak

5. Harlow blabbed to Novak

voila....she is outed

let's prosecute Rove and Libby!!!!

what a joke

[MayBee]

Foo Bar- what is so exciting about that? McClellan was a really bad spokesman, and meat-hammered things that needed finessing all the time.

BUT the truth was, at the time of this Sept 2003 press gaggle, that Libby and Rove had been singled out as responsible for political purposes by Wilson(umm....Matt Cooper anyone?) and Armitage had been the big blabber, with Harlow confirming.

[MayBee]

Anyway, I do believe I've extracted an implicit concession from you that McClellan's characterization of Rove's involvement was incorrect (i.e. needed correcting)

It might have needed fine-tuning, but that doesn't make Rove Novak's source. It certainly doesn't mean Rove would have thought of himself as Novak's source. But yes, a politically motivated accusation got a politically tinged response. Shocking!

[MayBee]

Let's think about this for a moment.
Fitzgerald wanted to pretend, throughout the trial, that Libby would have relied on the idea that reporters wouldn't testify against him.
Yet by September, Rove's and Libby's names were being floated out there as having been responsible for the leak. Surely they must have suspected *some* reporter was talking about them.

[Syl]

Foo Bar

It's really very simple. Rove didn't think he was involved in the leak. And that's what he told McClellan.

You're just playing word-meaning-intent-motive games.

I call that DerryDA DerryDooDoo.

All together now:

DerryDA DerryDooDoo

Has a nice syncopated rhythm to it. Feel the pull between 'Doo' and 'Doo'.

[Ranger]

Foo Bar,

Lets also remember that what you were responding to was a suggestion that Gregory's explenation for not speaking up be compared to the hectoring that Gregory himself was giving McClellan and his (McClellan's) answers. Gregory is the twit who has gotten red in the face and asked things like "don't you think the American people have a right to know?" Well, seems like Greogry doesn't think the American people have the right to know, at least when it involves NBC's participation in setting up a republican staffer for framing by a prosecutor. Then it's mums the word.

[Deag;e]

Sara,

Yes, it's not that I don't understand why it occurs (I would be depressed too if I had to care for someone else instead of myself). It does seem to be a recent "problem" discovered within the medical industry.

It has always been present and will continue to be...just make someone believe that they must care about someone other than themselves.

It still is a selfish response to what use to be a wonderful event!

[Deagle]

Sorry to sound insensitive, but I'm as old as you are and have experienced such nonsense. I have given up on the medical "industry", time to say it like it is... What the heck did the older generation do before "PPD", makes me wonder....

[MayBee]

What the heck did the older generation do before "PPD", makes me wonder....

Suffer silently, quietly kill themselves, or harm their children. It just didn't have a name.

[MayBee]

Oh, and I believe in my grandmother's days it was called "The Baby Blues".

[Deagle]

Nice...not realistic, but nice... Sorry, that does not get to the problem. The problem only exists due to the medical industry and their reports.

Look, you can either believe whatever you want in the medical journals... have at it, but remember, it is just like the political field.., have fun...

[Jane]

Wake up! It's Monday. The jury is out!

[hit and run]

Good morning Jane!

[sbw]

High copper levels may contribute to PPD.

[Ralph L.]

Good morning. I haven't heard the phrase "plea bargain" on this blog yet, but I guess it would be difficult to include Berger's butt in those negotiations.

[jerry]

That was very weird, as I see it there's no reason to have York on the show other than the Libby trial.

[hit and run]

jerry:
That was very weird, as I see it there's no reason to have York on the show other than the Libby trial.

But it makes it look like since York didn't bring up Libby - that there must not be anything Russert needs to talk about regarding Libby.

Russert's in rehab. It's grueling work, but they say he's committed to seeing it through.

[lurker]

Wonder if the jury would reach something and report their verdict today?