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February 15, 2007

Comments

Seven Machos

Pete -- Please. Define logic for us and explain how we are misusing it.

Syl

Pete

You allowed yourself to be conned into a war based on phoney intel. You didn't just get conned. You ALLOWED yourself to be conned.

Take a step back and marvel at what a job the fascist Right did on you.

You are one sick puppy.

SICK

The American people, 78% of them, thought Saddam had something to do with 9/11 on 9/13.

And we didn't get that idea from Bush, YOU IDIOT. We got it from Clinton.

So quit talking about who conned who. Either Clinton conned the American people into believing Saddam was a threat to us OR Bush was right.

topsecretkk9

And here is the rub gang... Val didn't have a political dog in that hunt. It wasn't her job to have one.

Posted by: tryggth | February 15, 2007 at 07:47 PM

what was her job?

RichatUF

pete says-

You allowed yourself to be conned into a war based on phoney intel. You didn't just get conned. You ALLOWED yourself to be conned.[and all those democrats that voted on the authorization to use force, and all those news article from the 1990's, conned by Chimpy the Smirk]

Take a step back and marvel at what a job the fascist Right[again why does the left always claims this: fascism=right, in US politics] did on you. Tell me. What did you get out of the deal? You help send 100s of thousands to their death[pete got his talking points from Lancet, yea] at cost of 100s of billions of dollars[big scary number, the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns are about the least expensive on a per-capita basis in US history: I think the US-Mexican War was cheaper] and you got what in return? [we will find out soon enough, but eliminating the Hussein regime has been a worthwhile endeavor]

One must wonder if you folks are capable of make rational decisions at all[right pete, take away all those decision making powers from 'the right', because that is what the reality-based community would do, its for our own good]. I mean there really must be an organic basis for your innate gullibility[Iran is not a threat, I mean hell, the Iran's are telling us. Iraq wouldn't work with al-Qeada, because it doesn't fit the theory. What North Korea, this time they really mean it-we give them about $400 million in aid and they will behave. And the Palestinians, they are telling us if we give them millions of dollars it will all go to the helpless Palestinian people, honest this time.]

RichatUF

-night all

vnjagvet

pete seems to view logic in the same way he views facts. Through his peculiar prism.

Therefore he sees Seven's and AMDG's views (and the views of many of the rest of the regulars here) of these things as distorted.

When pete starts agreeing with our point of view, I will immediately begin questioning our judgment.


topsecretkk9

Wells is going to use WINPAC and CPD like DNA in this case - to show where crap is coming from. Fitz caught on late in the game and tried to scramble to muddle it - but I don't think he can. He sees where it is going and is scared.

Bill

I agree. I don't think he thought that one through and it was the jury who established Judy had other sources, most likely the source of "WINPAC"

Michael

I don't fault Ari - he was wrapping up the last week of his job, he was on a multi-day, multi-country Presidential tour of Africa, and the press was gnawing on him non-stop about the Sixteen Words.

It seems to me that Ari's report of his lunch with Libby pre-Russert and 'Libby's saying,' as I recall, 'we've got to keep this plan hush, hush but we've got to get.. Wilson's wife' is such an outlier from the rest of the testimony, the reports here, that... It seems much more likely that when the narrative of what might be a crime arose, Ari thought, 'Oh my; I have stepped in it.' See the other conversations he independently had. 'I didn't mean too..' and he did have the correct sense, as former press secretary, that the meme was going to demand some criminals, and he just scrambled to be as complaisant with what he thought the Inquisitor wanted or might enjoy to get the nonprossecute agreement that he, as a former press chef, whipped some ecliars right up. 'Don't fault, Ari;' well any boy would probably cry for momma in that circumstance, but the 'no fault' in it is that it puts a klieg light on what a wishful garden of imbecility the prosecutor was wont to repose in.

tom maguire

Re: Did Libby Forget?

I think it is clear that he must have forgotten certain conversations (if in fact they ocurred at all).

Specifically, he must have forgotten Ari on July 7; he had to know the press secretary would eventually be asked about leaks, and Jul7 7 preceds his moment of revelation with Russert/Novak/whoever.

Similarly with Addington, although that date is hazy - Liby *said* he thought he checked with Addington before leaking the NIE to Judy, but that may have been a selective, seemingly self-serving memory - maybe he chaecked afterwards in a moment of doubt.

As to the idea that Libby did/did not foregert Plame - there is total radio silence on the subject of the wife from Schmall (June 14) to Ari (July 7.) No meetings, no conversations, nothing in his notebook, nothing.

Per the prosecution, it may be that something sparked him after the Wilson July 6 op-ed - the obvious impetus would be Cheney brandishing a mark-up copy of the op-ed and asking about the spousal junket.

However - Cheney was asked about this by Fitzgerald and not called (I actually don't know ho far Fitzgerald can speculate on this point absent his testimony).

But if I may speculate - maybe Cheney made the same decision Cathie Martin did and decided in early June that the wife was not usable.

And maybe Cheney hears five times a week and twice on weekends how he did something specifically to promote his wife Lynn (or vice versa), is sick of it, knows it is almost never true, and just made a mental note not to go that route with Wilson.

Hey - the guy was not called, who knows?

Which leaves one wondering what sparked Ari for July 7 with Ari (or did that happen at all?)

July 7/8 with Addington (but was that later in the week?)

July 8 with Judy (but did she ask him, or not discuss it, despite her notes?)

Elroy Jetson

I have been reading with great curiosity all of your posts, and I just have one question for the group- how are you folks going to deal with Libby withdrawl after this is all over?
Maybe they'll start impeachment hearings or something equally as moronic as this travesty was.

tom maguire

I love a good expletive/deleted whenever (almost) I encounter it!

Oh, [ ] yes!

AMDG

Pete,

Logic at its most basic is algebra.

If A=B and B=C then C=B

If person A uses a person B's popularity rating as measurement of person B's inherent evilness then person A is not qualified to impart advice on the proper use of logic.

If person A maintains as fact proposition B when proposition B has been determined to be false person A is either a liar or an idiot - which are you Pete?

In other words when does the false accusation that somebody took us to war based on deliberate lies become a lie in and of itself.

Pete, the Democrat success in demonizing the President and VP does not make them (President and VP) demons. What it does do is reveal the character (or lack of) of the people doing the demonizaton and those that enable it by willfully ignoring the truth.

Here are some indisputable facts:
1. WMD was not the only reason we went to war. It was a key driver in our efforts to get UN support but that is it.
2. The view that Iraq was attempting to reconstitute its WMD programs was conventional wisdom among members of both parties (a side question, why do consider Bush a liar but do not apply the same view to Kerry etc.?)
3. Joe Wilson told three specific lies.
4. Any politician that gauges his/her view of the war based on anything beyond what they believe to be on the best interests of our nation's security is unpatriotic and unfit to hold any position of responsibility.
5. Any senator that states they were deliberately misled by the administration in the run up to the war is a liar and unfit to hold any position of responsibility.

Bill in AZ

pete - "Take a step back and marvel at what a job the fascist Right blah blah blah..."

heh heh - LOVE it when a lib drops the "fascist" bomb. Shows the grasp of history of an 8 year old. And many 8 years olds have a better grasp of history than that.

Another Bob

Pete, we're taking the oil. You don't get any.

Posted by: Ralph L. | February 15, 2007 at 09:09 PM

LOL!

Ralph L.

Elroy, we'll have to get a life.
Some people earlier were discussing dissecting the upcoming AIPAC espionage trial.

Ralph L.

Elroy, we'll have to get a life. TM will write a book or have a brain flush.
Some people earlier were discussing dissecting the upcoming AIPAC espionage trial.

tom maguire

I'll throw this out to the room. Since learning Wilson's wife was CIA-have you ever forgotten it? Just for a second?

Here is a true but self-serving (yet self-seflating) story - about a week before the trail started (IIRC) I read saw article saying that Libby talked to Andrea Mitchell the week of July 7.

My heart stopped! This was just the tie-in to Andrea I needed! (and I stand second to no one in obsessing about Andrea's role in this).

So I googled around for more background and discovered that, hmm, this had been disclosed in court filings last year, and I had personally written some commentary that struck me, even a month ago, as quite interesting.

But I was reading my own post as if the the first time. I had no memory of it, or the underlying fact (Libby and Mitchell spoke).

It was a weird feeling.

That said, I can remember where I was sitting and what I did when I learned about Wilson's wife - I was doing a post on Wilson, had googled for more background, and found the Novak column.

But who knows? Wilson was important to me on July 14. Maybe on June 11/12, Libby had no personal interest in Wilson personally - his interest was in getting the CIA to admit that they, not Cheney, had initiated the Wilson trip.

And (a daring bet here) I bet Wilson was not Libby's first experience with folks claiming "The VP was interested" when, in fact, the VP was *not* interested (Well, not *that* interested). Libby may well have known this to be a somewhat common bureaucratic ploy, figured Wilson was just duped by whoever set it up, and wanted it stopped.

In that construct, the wife is the opposite of helpful - one might have thought that Wilson would know the truth of his mission if his wife sent him, or was involved, or even worked there.

SO if, in June, Libby was thinking that typical CIA 'crats had blown smoke at Wilson, the wife is not memorable/helpful at all. Only later, when he gets the news that "Wilson is a snake", does she become an issue.

IIRC, the INR guy was also told that the VP was interested (as of Feb 19), which was true but... the trip had been initiated prior to that expression of intererst.

Anyway - if in June Libby figured that Wilson was 'lied-to' rather than liar, his issue was with the CIA, not Wilson.

Chants

AMDG, you are Jacob Bronowski reborn.

Alcibiades

Ralph L: Alcibiades, I know Arkin is with the Post. What's his relationship to NBC?

He also works for NBC as an on-air "military expert."

Chants

AMDG, you are Jacob Bronowski reborn.

pete

"Logic at its most basic is algebra."

Crack a book their Einstein. You have got it all basackward.

topsecretkk9

--Libby had no personal interest in Wilson personally - his interest was in getting the CIA to admit that they, not Cheney, had initiated the Wilson trip.--

I still think "for the first time" means a light bulb went off - jumping back to his initial meeting with Miller - he was agitated at CIA "selective leaks" -- since WINPAC originated with the Vippers - first time only relates to Libby' lightening bolt realization the only reason this blowhard Wilson was garnering so much attention was a result of an aspect Libby never considered - Wilson was getting so much attention BECAUSE of his wife.

pete

AMDG

You watch a whole lot of Fox "news" don't you. Once again ... crack a book (objects about an inch thick or so with a rectangular face which when opened can be seen to have words arranged in what appears to be an orderly fashion).

Michael

Which leaves one wondering what sparked Ari for July 7 with Ari (or did that happen at all?)

The Rosetta stone is an outlier too. What else supports Ari's statement being false and not a Rosetta stone for the case?

1) All of the conversations before involving Libby were presented as an order of battle. They are composed dispassionately of 'this is fact. This is analysis. Operational plan implied and to follow.' To be congruent with this style the discussion with Ari should have been 'Wilson's wife sent him. Revealing this will have this impact on the argument.
Operational plan to follow.' Instead we have 'screwing Wilson's wife is a good idea' (just operational plan).

2) The conveying of personal position is given subtly. Libby's 'I heard that too' is the classic example. The Three Stooges. Let me summarize the testimony of Grenier, Grossman, and Schmall - Hello, we can't remember discussing Plame with Libby, but he ought to. Their conveying the personal information was so subtle they can't feel the moment of release in their memory. Per Ari's report, Libby said, 'Dumbass. Do I make myself clear and secret. Screw the bitch' as his opening remark.

Seven Machos

Pete -- Why be a troll? Why not answer some of the critiques here in a cool and rational way? At the very least, please explain to us what your disagreement with the Iraq War has to do with Scooter Libby's trial, which is based on charges that he lied to interviewers. There is no underlying charge here. The substance of the lies is not on trial.

So, what's the relationship?

tom maguire

You know, we keep hearing about that two hour lunch with Judy.

Well, Libby gets a special Presidential Double Secret Declassification so he ca leak the NIE, then gabs about Wilson's wife fo rtwo hours at breakfast?

Of course the meeting was important to Libby - that just doesn't make Wilson's wife important. And I'll bet that at other moments they discussed the weather in Sag Harbor, too, or how Libby spent the 4th of July - should Libby have cut her off and said he has to run back to his desk to disrupt a terrorist plot?

pete

Seven

"Pete -- Why be a troll? Why not answer some of the critiques here in a cool and rational way?"

Read some of my posts addressing why I comment here.
I do not want to repete myself twice in one day. I do have limits.

"please explain to us what your disagreement with the Iraq War has to do with Scooter Libby's trial, which is based on charges that he lied to interviewers."

Holy mother of gawd. That has got to be the most deluded comment ever written on this blog.

Ralph L.

I certainly hope the defense can simplify things for the closing. There is so much information that jurors can take in pointless tangents. Here's reasonable doubt here, that is enough to acquit on that charge. The known unknowns are immaterial. The rest is interesting but makes no difference. Normally confusion is good for the defense, here I'm not so sure in this case.

MayBee

Crack a book their Einstein

That's a winner.

MJW

pete, AMDG's version is considerably closer to the truth than yours. Logic is expressible as an algebra (specifically, Boolean Algebra). Algebra is, in general, more than just logic. Many of the properties of elementary algebra, such as the commutative property of multiplication, aren't a consequence of logic, and don't even hold in other algebras (such as matrix algebra).

If you doubt me, there are books you can crack open that will fill in the details.

pete

Jane

"Well I do know the value of an apostrophe."

I have said it before and I will say it again ("repete" as some of you like to say). Dose dat be korrEct'n da spel'n of odders n da koMentz secshun of dis hear bloG ARE INNANE DRONES.

Syl

Holy mother of gawd. That has got to be the most deluded comment ever written on this blog.

Sid? That you?

Ralph L.

MJW, Pete is like our foreign enemies. They won't come out for a decisive battle because they know they'll be slaughtered.

When I took symbolic logic in college, it was a mathematics/philosophy course. The philosophy majors had a terrible time. We math majors breezed through it.

pete

MJW

"Algebra is, in general, more than just logic."

Of course it is but it is only an extension of logic.

"Many of the properties of elementary algebra, such as the commutative property of multiplication, aren't a consequence of logic,"

Multiplication is repeated addition of numbers. The addition of numbers is a subset of the concept of the addition of sets. Set theory is 100% rooted in modern logic. The question of commutation of numbers or linear operators under some given product only depends on the proposition defining the product and the elements the product acts upon.

So you see you are clueless and way way out of your league.


I know more about math than you do about your navel.

Seven Machos

Pete is shrill and bores me. Next.

PaulV

It should be clear from testimony in this case that people take notes as substitute for memory. FBI takes notes of interview and then write up reports that may not correspond with the notes. Miller says she cannot remember what her notes mean and has no memory of her sources. Clearly Libby took notes so he would not have to clog memory with unimportant details. Eckenrode failed to make a note of where he kept the notes of TR's interview.

Syl

Pete

Since you're so smart then you can understand this.

Clinton vs Saddam
PLUS
American people believe Saddam is a threat to us.
PLUS
9/11
PLUS
American people (78%!) believed Saddam involved
PLUS
Afghanistan/Osama - yes!
PLUS
Saddam next - yes!

=

IRAQ!

No lying necessary.

pete

Whats wrong Seven. You're a chickenhawk even when it come to mathematics.

pete

Syl

Each one of your silly propostions is not factual. Start with some factual propostions first when you make your lame attempt at applying logic to them. If not all you are doing is mathsturbating.

MJW

In regard to an earlier comment, the defense read in a stipulation (FDL version):

WINPAC is a center within CIA. The records of CIA show that Valerie Wilson did not work for nor was she detailed to WINPAC in 2003 or at any other time.
Walton forced the defense to allow Fitz to read in another stipulation:
The Counter-Proliferation Division, known as CPD, records of CIA reflect that Valerie Plame Wilson worked at CPD throughout 2003.
Of course, Walton didn't literally force the defense to stipulate, but said if they didn't, he'd allow Fitz to call a CIA representative to testify to the fact. I'm not sure whether I think that was unfair. I can understand why Walton did it, even though it seems to me that, strictly speaking, the WINPAC stipulation related only to rebutting Miller's specific testimony, so it shouldn't have opened the general employment issue to rebuttal.

pete

Ralph

I just defeated MJW in open battle ... shock and awe style. But just as in Iraq you don't know defeat when you see it.

arcanorum

"So you see you are clueless and way way out of your league." -pete

I'm very sorry that you have such a small penis.

Syl

Pete

You're in denial. Where were you in the nineties?

On September 13, 2001 the Washington Post took a survey. 78% said it was very likely or somewhat likely that Saddam had something to do with 9/11.

That's the FACT that blows your Bush lied claim out of the water! That's the FACT the blows your 'we were duped' out of the water.

The American people had heard about Saddam for years. We wanted him GONE. We were in NO mood for any more of his hankypanky.

MJW

pete:

Multiplication is repeated addition of numbers. The addition of numbers is a subset of the concept of the addition of sets. Set theory is 100% rooted in modern logic. The question of commutation of numbers or linear operators under some given product only depends on the proposition defining the product and the elements the product acts upon.

So you see you are clueless and way way out of your league.

I know more about math than you do about your navel.

Multiplication is repeated addition of numbers.
Try repeatedly adding the square root of two together pi times. Get back to me when you figure out how. And if you have a Ph.D. in math, you probably know more about math than I do; if not, you probably don't. Given your gobbledygook on commutativity, I'm guessing you don't have a Ph.D.

Syl

MJW

Interesting.

And Judy did not have WINPAC in her notes. She had something like 'wife works at bureau'. Judy said she thought that meant WINPAC.

There was some argument by fitz that that didn't impeach her testimony, but walton said something about fitz not being able to use what Judy thought she thought to rehabiitate what she wrote.

Or something.

Yeah. Confused me too.

pete

Syl

That was a fine demonstration of conflation and the misuse of language but it wasn't an argument. Now you must understand why I do not in general argue with you pinheads but prefer to prod you along to the end of the self destructive course you have taken.

MayBee

Syl- let me go look, but I am certain the word WINPAC is in Judy's notes, perhaps from the 23rd notebook.
I think it is a disembodied Winpac, on the disembodied Wilson reference & phonenumber that came from nowhere.

Syl

Pete

Funny you should criticize others arguments when you never make any. Political rhetoric and what you feeeeeel is all you can handle.

Syl

MayBee

It was in there somewhere, I thought the 8th. I may be mistaken in thinking they were discussing the 23rd.

MJW

Syl, Judy had the parenthetical "Wife works in bureau?" comment in her June 23 notes. She had the (curiously, also parenthetical) comment "Wife works at WINPAC" in her July 8 notes. (The exact wording of her comments may be wrong -- I didn't look it up).

Syl

MJW

Thanks.

I think I was mistaken about which they were discussing when I mentioned that dispute.

But that means for both the June and July 8 meetings with Judy she came away with the idea of WINPAC which Libby never got from anyone.

But VIPS was pushing it.

(the time of the 3 sneakies)

Syl

Well, I gotta close down for the night.

Later!

MJW

pete: I just defeated MJW in open battle ... shock and awe style. But just as in Iraq you don't know defeat when you see it.

I ask -- I beg! -- everyone to read my comment and pete's response where he "defeated" me. He sounds like a character from a TV sitcom who's supposed to be a math prodigy -- but the script was written by someone who flunked intermediate algebra.

MayBee

Funny, MJW.

MayBee

Ah, MJW beat me to answering Syl. Thanks, M.

pete

MJW

"Try repeatedly adding the square root of two together pi times"

Nonintegers confuse you do they. One can fractionally add numbers. What is multiplication to you? Something that a calcultor does for you.

"Given your gobbledygook on commutativity"

Where's the goobledygook. Do you understand that there are many kinds of products? Do you understand that these products act on elements of a set?

If you want to see how algebra and analysis are built up from modern logic then read the first chapter of "Handbook of Physics" by E. U. Condon and then come back here and tell me that I am wrong if you dare.

"I'm guessing you don't have a Ph.D."

I wont be devulging anything about my education to you. Not even a good try.

Seven Machos

Pete -- What are the charges against Libby? Do they have anything to do with math? Iraq?

Come on, man. You are a sooper geenyus. Explain it to us in small words so we can understand.

BritAm
Like when you go to see a film "based" on the novel by the same name. And you loved the novel. And then the authors of the screenplay, in their arrogance, decided to "improve it" by changing the story into an entirely different narrative.

Reminds me of a Usenet review of the movie version of Starship Troopers:

Loosely based on the back cover of a novel by Robert Heinlein

MJW

pete, you're a funny guy. As in, you make me laugh, you're a clown.

MJW

Under the heading of: Why bother?

Nonintegers confuse you do they. One can fractionally add numbers.

I can add fractions together an integer number of times, but I'm not sure how to add fractions together a fractional number of times. And, in any case, neither the square of two nor pi are fractions (check with Pythagoras and Lambert, respectively).

Where's the goobledygook. Do you understand that there are many kinds of products? Do you understand that these products act on elements of a set?

The question of commutation of numbers or linear operators under some given product only depends on the proposition defining the product and the elements the product acts upon.
How about the fact that that it's a lot of words saying absolutely nothing. (You do apparently know matrices are linear operators. Props on that.)

If you want to see how algebra and analysis are built up from modern logic then read the first chapter of "Handbook of Physics" by E. U. Condon and then come back here and tell me that I am wrong if you dare.

I'll get right on it. Got to educate myself, to be smart like you.

Ralph L.

Hmm..
A THEORY YOU WON'T HEAR ANYWHERE ELSE (Until some lefty thinks of it...)

I'm wondering if Fleischer is part of a Rovian plot. Something like Agatha's Witness for the Prosecution. Get immunity. Accuse friend. Discredit oneself. Make friend look good.

Posted by: Ralph L. | February 13, 2007 at 10:29 PM
I AM NOT A LEFTY! Well, I am a southpaw.

Patton

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDlkOWFkMzM0MDgwOTNiZjVkNjZmMzFjNmZkODhmOGY

I think Byron York has it right, Libby didn't tetify IN PERSON AGAIN because the jurors allready say him testify in the GJ for 8 hours. I don't know if Fitz had a choice, but playing the entire GJ tape was most likely a huge mistake.

Jane

Good Morning!

hit and run

And good morning to you!

highcotton

I started to read the comments and then suddenly couldn't go on. After hanging onto every word about this trial for months, I wasn't able to control my gag reflex when it finally kicked in. Call me stupid and naieve, but I'm just physically ill. When the defense rested, I was left with so many unanswered questions...

I wonder how Ari Fleischer can look himself in the mirror? First the '16 words' fiasco that cut POTUS off at the knees. Then the cowardly scramble for immunity to save his own pampered ass. And, finally, the sell-out. Under oath, no less.

I wonder how Colin Powell can look himself in the mirror? He traded in his honor for a Get-Out-Of-Jail card for his sycophant. It was a poor swap.

I wonder how Alma Powell feels when she sees Colin looking at himself in the mirror? Is it the same man she married? Or would a younger Colin have had the integrity and guts to step forward and tell the President the truth?

I wonder how Tim Russert can look himself in the mirror? Well, actually, I think I know the answer to that question. Recite 10 Hail Marys and 3 or 4 platitudes, call to check on Big Russ, and suddenly you're lookin' pretty good, right?

I wonder how Andrea Mitchell can look herself in the mirror? Well, with a great sense of relief, I would imagine....the sweat drying and a cocky grin slowly supplanting the grim twist of her mouth.

I wonder how Alan, standing at Andrea's shoulder, feels about the grin he sees in the mirror? Sixty years of integrity and selfless public service sacrificed on the NBC altar.

I wonder if Judy Miller is even capable of looking in a mirror? If she did, would it break?

I wonder how Judge Reggie Walton can look himself in the mirror? He's been so lame that we don't even have a substantive rebuttal to Carol Herman's rascist claims...... We're forced to defend on principle rather than particulars. If I were a psychologist, I'd call this man an "enabler". (And if I were into conspiracies, I'd call him something far stronger.) His rulings have shown a disgraceful 'awareness' that his court is in D.C.

I wonder, most of all,how Patrick Fitzgerald can look himself in the mirror? How sick is it to focus the awesome power and authority of a Special Prosecutor for the United States of America on a guy because he couldn't remember exactly what he said to whom on a given Friday 5 months before (and because he once made you look like a fool in public)?

That's the biggest question of all, and it's the one I hope Ted Wells asks the jury: What would you do if somebody dragged you into a grand jury, had you swear an oath to tell the truth, and then asked you about some minor detail from a couple of conversations that took place months ago? With your career, your reputation and your liberty in the balance, are you sure it's reasonable to assume that you'd get all the details of every conversation exactly right?

I am physically ill for Scooter Libby. Even if he's acquitted, the damage can never be undone. God knows this nation owes him much for his service and more for his sacrifice.

highcotton

I started to read the comments and then suddenly couldn't go on. After hanging onto every word about this trial for months, I wasn't able to control my gag reflex when it finally kicked in. Call me stupid and naieve, but I'm just physically ill. When the defense rested, I was left with so many unanswered questions...

I wonder how Ari Fleischer can look himself in the mirror? First the '16 words' fiasco that cut POTUS off at the knees. Then the cowardly scramble for immunity to save his own pampered ass. And, finally, the sell-out. Under oath, no less.

I wonder how Colin Powell can look himself in the mirror? He traded in his honor for a Get-Out-Of-Jail card for his sycophant. It was a poor swap.

I wonder how Alma Powell feels when she sees Colin looking at himself in the mirror? Is it the same man she married? Or would a younger Colin have had the integrity and guts to step forward and tell the President the truth?

I wonder how Tim Russert can look himself in the mirror? Well, actually, I think I know the answer to that question. Recite 10 Hail Marys and 3 or 4 platitudes, call to check on Big Russ, and suddenly you're lookin' pretty good, right?

I wonder how Andrea Mitchell can look herself in the mirror? Well, with a great sense of relief, I would imagine....the sweat drying and a cocky grin slowly supplanting the grim twist of her mouth.

I wonder how Alan, standing at Andrea's shoulder, feels about the grin he sees in the mirror? Sixty years of integrity and selfless public service sacrificed on the NBC altar.

I wonder if Judy Miller is even capable of looking in a mirror? If she did, would it break?

I wonder how Judge Reggie Walton can look himself in the mirror? He's been so lame that we don't even have a substantive rebuttal to Carol Herman's rascist claims...... We're forced to defend on principle rather than particulars. If I were a psychologist, I'd call this man an "enabler". (And if I were into conspiracies, I'd call him something far stronger.) His rulings have shown a disgraceful 'awareness' that his court is in D.C.

I wonder, most of all,how Patrick Fitzgerald can look himself in the mirror? How sick is it to focus the awesome power and authority of a Special Prosecutor for the United States of America on a guy because he couldn't remember exactly what he said to whom on a given Friday 5 months before (and because he once made you look like a fool in public)?

That's the biggest question of all, and it's the one I hope Ted Wells asks the jury: What would you do if somebody dragged you into a grand jury, had you swear an oath to tell the truth, and then asked you about some minor detail from a couple of conversations that took place months ago? With your career, your reputation and your liberty in the balance, are you sure it's reasonable to assume that you'd get all the details of every conversation exactly right?

I am physically ill for Scooter Libby. Even if he's acquitted, the damage can never be undone. God knows this nation owes him much for his service and more for his sacrifice.

Jane

Oh dear, quite a troll fest after I left. My guess is that it is the stress of the trial coming home to roost.

Jane

Hey H&R good morning to you. I've got coffee - and in 3 hours OtherTom will be by with the Grey Goose!

Morning High Cotton! Welcome to the best part of the day!

highcotton

Good morning, Jane, and thank you. I was afraid for a minute there that I had inspired the 'troll' comment. What a relief to know it ain't so! :)

Jane

Oh gawd no. I was referring to pete who is probably off somewhere celebrating kim jon il's 65th birthday!

hit and run

Yup, Jane, quite a troll fest. Just read through the thread. Well, just scrolled through the thread trying to pick up on anything not pete/jerry related.

Jane

New thread above!

MayBee

Highcotton, I appreciate your physical illness. Libby must not believe what has happened to him.
But this:
I wonder how Colin Powell can look himself in the mirror?...I wonder how Alma Powell feels when she sees Colin looking at himself in the mirror?
is hilarious.

bubarooni

Pete:

you prefer to prod? do sharpen your prodder.

mastour

pete,

You are a f*@$ing tool. You've been asked to respond to serious questions posed by a number of individuals here and you've not been able to. It truly is a lost cause to attempt rationale debate with a liberal. Their world view is set and no matter how many times it can be picked apart and shown to be false, they refuse to accept what they "know," sorry "feel" to be true.

You're dangerous pete and those that think like you are also dangerous. You're going to get us killed with your reality-based thinking and world politik views.

JM Hanes

highcotton:

"I wonder, most of all,how Patrick Fitzgerald can look himself in the mirror?"

How indeed? His investigation has been like some badly written, made for TV script. How do all the "journalists," who should be the first to recognize faction when they see it, look themselves in the face?

What probably sickens me most, however, is that I don't think Joe Wilson was really ever anti-war, I think he was just anti-Bush. Or maybe not even anti-Bush, just pro-Joe. He was a political slut who set out to derail a Presidency, used the war to do it, and successfully derailed them both. If anybody is still in love with his own reflection, it's Joe.

hit and run

Hi neighbor.

Another Bob

Please stop feeding Pete.

When he stops getting the attention he so desperately craves, he'll leave.

Jane

Boy I agree with that Another Bob.

Pofarmer

JM Hanes

Don't forget, he was working for Kerry when the shit hit the fan.

JM Hanes

HowdY h&r! Ain't it a beeUtiful day?

Pofarmer: Yes indeed, that's the really slutty part, isn't it? Sluts and nuts.

owl

Highcotton @3:46
Thank you. Let me add one more to your list....The MSM....almost all of them participated in this lynching. They promoted The Val & Joe Show and egged on a truly run amok prosecutor. I can not think of a single excuse for any of them, including the judge.

Wish you would paste your post over to the current thread also.

clarice

I never can remember names..When I was a kid watching the HUAC investigations, I remember they'd ask a witness if he knew Mr. X. He'd say "no" and they'd whip out a shot of the witness and Mr X together.
It always gave me nightmares.

I bet many on the jury have similar fears about their own powers of recollection and the defense has to remind them of that.

SunnyDay

"I wonder, most of all,how Patrick Fitzgerald can look himself in the mirror?"

Read Peter Lance's last 3 books.

centralcal

This comment is only for H&R, the resident comic of JOM.

I read this at NRO's Corner this morning and it made me think of you H & R:

"Maybe it is about us after all. A California reader writes:

I was watching a report on Fox regarding the initiation of the “Surge” in Baghdad. The troops were searching a home and opened up an armoire. On the door of that armoire was a poster of….Britney.

I almost cried.

Interesting that we’re targeting Britney fans. Is she big with the Sunni? If so, are the Shia hot for Hilary Duff?"

Pofarmer

JM Hanes.

If the roles were reversed, and Wilson had worked for a Republican campaign, do you think the MSM would have ever let that connection slide?

I know, I know, it's a rhetorical question.

hit and run

centralcal

Heh - I read that too.

If so, are the Shia hot for Hilary Duff?"

I think the Shia are hot for Kevin Federline - and that that is the root cause of the sectarian strife in Iraq.

Carol Herman

FM: CAROL HERMAN
TO: PETE

Pete,

You can do LOGIC by just drawing circles. Jump in. Jump out. See where your X lands.

And, so far, here, nobody's as bright as Einstein.

Carol Herman

FM: CAROL HERMAN
TO: JM HAYNES

As long as CLINE wears a PURPLE TIE, with raisin dots on it, he'll speak to "HEARD IT THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE." Was a big hit,too. It sailed out of the commercial world, into the public arena. We need some of that common sense stuff, here. too.

Carol Herman

FROM CAROL HERMAN

Let the jurors convict. They've managed to seer into memory those red-tee-shirts. Quite like Rudolph the Reindeer's NOSE.

How did that get passed waltoon's marshals? Like the NBC lawyer in the back of the room, punching his BlackBerry?

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Wilson/Plame