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February 02, 2007


Jim E.

Maybe I read this too fast, but it seems like you're the one who is trying to pull as fast one on your own "gullible" readers.

With your York cite, you shift gears and seem to link classified with covert, when they're not the same thing.


Note from the estimable syl follows:

Last night I was merrily commenting away at JustOneMinute on the Libby case. Suddenly, about 10 or 11PM I could no longer post. I can read everything, I just can't post a comment, nor even preview one. The page won't come up that lets me type in the security letters.

Looks like my IP address was suddenly blocked? I dropped Tom a note, not sure if the email address is one he looks at frequently. I can log in to typepad...no problem. (I had had a problem at Roger L. Simon's which was eventually resolved and turned out not to be any blocking by typepad at all.)

I'm computer literate (yeah, I know that claim covers a lot of ground LOL) and have checked various things on my end to no avail.

Can someone just post a comment to Tom's attention over there? Let folks know I can't participate? (yeah, big yawn, I know.)

If I were the paranoid type......I had just posted my 'theory' about the CIA stonewalling fitz investigation by not giving him definite information on Plame's status. Fitz doesn't know. The judge don't know. Only Plame's hairdresser knows for sure.

The reason fitz didn't indict on the leak itself (Armitage, or anyone else for that matter) was because fitz had no evidence of her status to use in court. I had figured the CIA didn't want to give Val the satisfaction. :)






My commet was directed at Jim E. above.

Lew Clark

Oh no! I'm going to prison for a zillion years. Because, in my 35 years in the Fed Gov I released thousands of Official Documents. That was one of my jobs. Get Official Documents out to the public.

It's too late for me. But maybe Mr. Corn can save the next generation. Because right now there are a lot of government people making official statements to the press and general public. Maybe it's not to late to save them.

Other Tom

I hope Clarice will embarass Corn by referring him to Fitz's footnote.


When it comes to embarrassing Corn no one can improve on our own graon slayer, TM.


That would be gilding the lily--TM did it as well as could be done.

Dan S


I think most of us have been having a whole assortment of posting issues here. Look at the double posts as one indicator of one sort of problem. I too have seen cases where I couldn't get a post screen up, though waiting a bit and hitting refresh has (so far) cleared it up for me.


The Bd is hinky--I tried on preview to correct to DRAGON slayer--lost the post and redid it..and then both come up --SHEESH

Christopher Fotos

Note to RogerA re the Note from the estimable syl: I've had similar problems this week, but they seemed to cure themselves. I was unable to post a few days ago, getting a url at JOM that ended with /spam. One or two days ago, I too, could not get to the security/human-verification page. I also sent an email to Tom, but considering he's 16,000-20,000 hits a day right now and directly interfacing his brain with some kind of Libby Trial Borg Collective, I doubt he saw it.

Christopher Fotos

Note to RogerA re the Note from the estimable syl: I've had similar problems this week, but they seemed to cure themselves. I was unable to post a few days ago, getting a url at JOM that ended with /sp*m. One or two days ago, I too, could not get to the security/human-verification page. I also sent an email to Tom, but considering he's 16,000-20,000 hits a day right now and directly interfacing his brain with some kind of Libby Trial Borg Collective, I doubt he saw it.

Jim E.


If you look at the title, TM mocks Corn for allegedly saying "official equals classified."

Well, if you look at the Byron York cite TM points to, York is talking about "covert." In that case, TM seems to be saying that "classified equals covert," which TM knows isn't true.

Jim E.

In other words, the York citation is irrelevant to the point TM is trying to make with it. If, that is, I'm understanding TM's post correctly, which may not be the case.


wait a second here....

The most ironically amusing thing that went over the heads over pretty much everyone in the courthouse... (spotted by AJ Strata)

F what discussed. [Judy uncomfortable]
M SAid plenty of info before Powell presentation was given, supporting Iraq hunting uranium, it had been shown that IRaq HAD acquired uranium in Africa, prior to 1st gulf war, in 80s IAEA stated taht Iraq had acquired, after that several different reports that Iraq in market again for uranium. 2 reports, for a long-term arrangement for large quantities, and then a shorter term amount, then referred to anohter report, a third report, the arrival of a delegation in 1999 this delegation was seeking a broader trade relationship, since Niger only had one export, officials had concluded that Iraq was interested in uranium, Author of this report was Joe Wilson. The report had gone up to the Hill. Talking about info provided to Hill, which had prompted VP questions.

F Did he indicate who provided this report


Joe Wilson went to debunk Joe Wilson - and Libby is on trial for it.

Posted by: Bill in AZ | February 02, 2007 at 06:01 AM

OK and...

The most remarkable thing I've learned, I learned right here today. It was on 2/12/02 that Val wrote her memo recommending Joe for the task of answering a question Cheney didn't ask until 2/13/02.Maybe there's an innocent explanation, but it's not at all clear to me what it would be.

Posted by: Tom Bowler | February 02, 2007 at 09:19 AM

OK and...

The CIA Got the Niger Documents!!!

by emptywheel

Here's the holy shit no one has noticed from yesterday. Here's the version of the INR memo introduced in court yesterday.

You'll note in the last paragraph of the second page--it says, "These documents, which were sent to Washington via both CIA and [State] Department channels..."

This is really big news. The CIA got the forgeries. But all this time, they've been saying CIA only got the forgeries through State.

Nope. They had their own copies. And still didn't analyze them until after it was too late...

The CIA's strong belief Iraq was interested in seeking Uranium and would sniff around Africa for it was based on Joe Wilson's own 1999 reporting AND Valerie was drawing up her memo recommending her husband check out the "crazy report" BEFORE Cheney asked his briefer what the CIA thought about it WHILE the Iraq Dept. was sitting on copies of the Docs UNANALYZED that were so obviously crude google revealed it.

Uh...yeah...Cheney's question spawned the tea sip trip -- "the whole genesis of the trip was flawed" - remember that?

I bet a you know what stormed ensued right after Colin Powell asked who the hell handed me documents at the UN UNANALYZED?

Oh I bet she had to cover her butt on the prompting of the Niger Junket and Wilson had to say HE DE-BUNKED THE FORGERIES.


JM Hanes


If Corn could be embarassed, Libby wouldn't be on trial.


Excuse me, TS9, but do I recall that the forgeries were found in Plame's CIA safe afterwards and supposedly unread.


From a previous JOM comment referring to the Iraq report ... "None of the four CIA representatives recall picking up the documents, however, during the CIA Inspector General's investigation of this issue, copies of the documents were found in the DO's CPD vault."




One thing is for sure...the Niger trip seems to based on the CIA believing in the suggestion contained in the forgeries. Otherwise, they would have been carefully looked at beforehand.


Clarice is the one who should be embarrassed.

How could she have lunch with Corn? Ickky!!

Unless she was there as an official/classified/covert agent of JOM.

Shit, I just outted her Didn't I?

JM Hanes

Not to worry danking, everybody who's anybody already knew.

Bill in AZ

I dunno TS - I saw all of those things as if for the very first time, though maybe they have been hashed here already.

Did Colin Powell say something about the forgeries just before Feb 12 when Val (using her CIA enhanced ESP) predicted Cheney would be Behesting the next day and wrote her memo to send Joe?

hit and run

Not to worry danking, everybody who's anybody already knew.

Sounds like Plame.


Jim E., I think you must have read too fast. The key line in Corn's columns is:

Thus, he cooked up a false account: Russert had been his source and at the time of the leak he possessed no certain and official (a.k.a. classified) information about Wilson's wife.
That line certainly seems to equate official with classified. The reason TM mentioned York's column is to quote the affidavit footnote in which Fitz, while alleging Libby had heard official information, admits he had not direct proof Libby knew it was classified information. If Corn's equality between the two were correct, that wouldn't be possible.



IIRC, someone personally deleivered copies to Powell at the UN for him to turn over to the IAEA in - I'm thinking Feb. 2003

The documents, given to International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei, indicated that Iraq might have tried to buy 500 tons of uranium from Niger, but the agency said they were "obvious" fakes.

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell referred to the documents directly in his presentation to the U.N. Security Council outlining the Bush administration's case against Iraq.

"I'm sure the FBI and CIA must be mortified by this because it is extremely embarrassing to them," former CIA official Ray Close said.

Responding to questions about the documents from lawmakers, Powell said, "It was provided in good faith to the inspectors and our agency received it in good faith, not participating ... in any way in any falsification activities."

"It was the information that we had. We provided it. If that information is inaccurate, fine," Powell said on NBC's "Meet the Press" last Sunday.

"We don't believe that all the issues surrounding nuclear weapons have been resolved [in Iraq]," he said.

Notice the Vipper in there.

How were forgeries missed?

But the discovery raises questions such as why the apparent forgeries were given to inspectors and why U.S. and British intelligence agents did not recognize that they were not authentic.

"The IAEA has concluded, with the concurrence of outside experts that these documents -- which formed the basis for the reports of recent uranium transactions between Iraq and Niger -- are not in fact authentic," ElBaradei said in his March 7 presentation to the U.N. Security Council.

Close said the CIA should have known better.

"They have tremendously sophisticated and experienced people in their technical services division, who wouldn't allow a forgery like this to get by," Close said. "I mean it's just mystifying to me. I can't understand it."

A U.S. intelligence official said that the documents were passed on to the International Atomic Energy Agency within days of being received with the comment, " 'We don't know the provenance of this information, but here it is.' "

If a mistake was made, a U.S. official suggested, it was more likely due to incompetence not malice.

"That's a convenient explanation, but it doesn't satisfy me," Close said. "Incompetence I have not seen in those agencies. I've seen plenty of malice, but I've never seen incompetence."


On February 3, 2003, the CIA sent a cable to requesting information from the foreign government service, on its January 27, 2003 report which had information on a Iraq-Niger uranium deal from 1999. The cable said, "the issue of Iraqi uranium procurement continues to resonate with senior policymakers and may be part of SecState's speech to the UN Security Council on 5 Feb 2003 if [a foreign government service] is able to provide a contract for the 1999 uranium deal, confirm that the information was not from another foreign government service, SENTENCE DELETED ." The same day, CIA responded that the foreign government service does not have a copy of the contract, the information was of "national origin,"

( ) On February 4, 2003, the U.S. Government passed electronic copies of the Iraq-Niger documents to the IAEA. Because the Director of the IAEA's INVO was in New York at the time, the U.S. Government also provided the documents to him in New York. Included with the documents were the U.S. Government talking points which stated, DELETED of reporting suggest Iraq has attempted to acquire uranium from Niger. We cannot confirm these reports and have questions regarding some specific claims. Nonetheless, we are concerned that these reports may indicate Baghdad has attempted to secure an unreported source of uranium yellowcake for a nuclear weapons program." The DELETED of reporting mentioned refer to the original CIA intelligence reports from the foreign government service and the CIA intelligence report on the former ambassador's trip to Niger. SENTENCE DELETED . SENTENCE DELETED .

Yep, that's pretty darn right after the SOTU
I dunno, maybe it was the good faith effort of handing them over to the IAEA that caught them off guard.

Bill in AZ

hmmm... timing sure would be right... now, to just roll the clock back and make Cheney Behest a day earlier, and Val/Joe/VIPs are covered. As it is, they're hanging out exposed hoping this trial will soon go away and no more questions will be asked.

No proof, but I have always been suspicious that Val and Joe know quite a bit about the forgeries, such as fonts, typefaces, how to transfer signatures. Val was hoping, praying, maybe even prodding, that someone somewhere would "discover" them to be forgeries, create a sh*tstorm, and keep them distanced.

It has all worked - except for the inconvenient Behesting.




--Val was hoping, praying, maybe even prodding, that someone somewhere would "discover" them to be forgeries--

Yep...I think they were supposed to have been discovered to be forgeries BEFORE the war, might have been the problem.

Bill in AZ

I 'spect the original intent was to be "discovered" before the war, but when that didn't work, derailing the election would at least get some mileage out of all of their hard work. In spite of VIPs turning every crank they could find, ol' fitz just plodded along overturning overturned rocks - and then could barely indict Libby too late to affect the election. VIPs must think fitz is a bigger fool than we do - and that would be a high mark to reach.


I have always thought there was a French connection and these obviously forged two-bit papers were to be discovered in time to stop the war and when for some reason--I think because Bush went to war faster than anticipated (the French believing they could tie us up some more in the UN Security Council) they proved useful after the invasion in this mosr unbelievable disinfo campaign:"Bush Lied".


From Larry Johnson at http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/04/the_state_inr_m.html>No Quarter:

4. The last paragraph on page four indicates that the forged documents were brought to the United States through a [blank] Department. There are only two logical possibilities--the State Department or the Defense Department. This helps explain how the documents found their way into the Office of the Vice President. What was clearly out of order here is that under normal circumstances the CIA, not the State Department nor the Defense Department, is the one who provides intelligence documents collected overseas to the President. In this case, the CIA's Chief in Rome had refused to accept anymore documents because be believed they were bogus.

This is from the first time the INR was released, April 2006.
He is obviously trying to absolve the CIA from the improper handling of these documents, and imply they went right Cheney.

When the unredacted version was shown at trial, the [redacted] turned out to be CIA.
Bwah ha ha. This helps explain why ew was so surprised to see the CIA had the documents, and was learning as if for the first time the CIA had mishandled them.


French,spelled Ariva/Cogema/Niger/Canada


I have always thought the Niger documents were a spoiling operation by the French,the CIA did mishandle them,Joe Wilson's trip was a CIA CYA until someone had the eureka moment and saw the immense political damage inherent in the situation - the rest is history.


plausible, PUK.
That's also probably why the first part of Wilson's story (which later had to be dropped) was the prebunking of the documents.


I have always thought there was a French connection and these obviously forged two-bit papers were to be discovered in time to stop the war and when for some reason--I think because Bush went to war faster than anticipated (the French believing they could tie us up some more in the UN Security Council) they proved useful after the invasion in this mosr unbelievable disinfo campaign:"Bush Lied".

JM Hanes


LOL, MayBee!


In this case, the CIA's Chief in Rome had refused to accept anymore documents because be believed they were bogus.

Isn't this wrong too?

"The chain of events that led to Friday's indictment can be traced as far back as 1991, when an unremarkable burglary took place at the embassy of Niger in Rome. All that turned up missing was a quantity of official letterhead with "Republique du Niger" at its top.

More than 10 years later, according to a retired high-ranking U.S. intelligence official, a businessman named Rocco Martino approached the CIA station chief in Rome. An occasional informant for U.S., British, French and Italian intelligence services, Martino brought documents on Niger government letterhead describing secret plans for the sale of uranium to Iraq.

The station chief "saw they were fakes and threw [Martino] out," the former CIA official said. But Italy shared a similar report with the Americans in October 2001, he said, and the CIA gave it circulation because it did not know the Italians relied on the same source."


So Rome sation chief declined them BEFORE Oct. 2001 - and I think this was in the spring of 01 that Rocco approached his first contact - CIA.

But then in ***Oct. 2001*** Rome station chief took notes of details of the documents (Italy wouldn't give copies) and cabled those details back to CIA


So essentially Larry is full of it.

Foo Bar

I have always thought there was a French connection and these obviously forged two-bit papers were to be discovered in time to stop the war

I suppose that's possible, but if you find yourself engaging in that kind of speculation, then I hope you're willing to listen to people muse about whether the TANG/Dan Rather/CBS memos were a Republican setup without being immediately dismissive...


My thought was based on a comment--I believe by James Woolsey former head of the CIA, that there was no reason to so badly forge a document unless you wanted it to be quickly determined to be false.
Something that seems utterly sensible.
TANG OTOH was a pack of lies which never could be substantiated and made no sense except as part oc the CBS Was On Bush.

Bill in AZ

Foo Bar, you may well be correct. I dislike conspiracy stuff as much as anyone. But no one ever attempted to do an investigation of the source of the Tang memos. The fact they came out in a simultaneous multipronged attempt via multiple disparate media sources - including an instantly created Kerry commercial - causes one to at least fleetingly suspect a Central er.. Agency had something to do with their genesis. Toss in some screwballs like Larry Johnson and VIPs, a lot of BDS for Bush deviating from our lock-step march to socialism, etc, and it becomes not too farfetched.

The Bush Lied meme has a lot of the same characteristics - and possibly some of the same players - and the intent is certainly similar - derail the Bush election.

Conspiracy theory? maybe... but it would not surprise me someday to see discarded practice copies of TANG memos intermingled with discarded practice copies fake Niger documents. We don't know where those came from either - but we do know who had access to the forms via a Central er.. Agency.

Carol Herman

Reggie Walton admonished the jurors, when he dismissed them at the end of the day; thursday, NOT to listen to the media. Or read newspapers.

Doesn't mean the judge isn't following this case closely.

Doesn't mean that the judge had a chance to ALLOW IN a memory expert (Robert Bjork). You can buy his book up at Amazon. I just did. And, also look at ELIZABETH LOFTUS.

The judge "ruled" that the memory experts aren't a field of science. So, he's going with the old rule. The one that was used during the Spanish Inquisition. The priests can ascertain if you're a witch. Or not.

Turns out Libby is married to an African-American woman. And, she's in court with him every day. (If I can believe what I read up at Free Republic.) Won't matter. The jury only has two blacks.

But it's a far different world than people expected to get, after Kennedy was killed, and Civil Rights legislation rolled down the pike.

The way DC runs? It's a new form of slavery. It takes power from individuals. And, it sets in, kerplunk, within congress. And, all the Federal infrastructure. (Lincoln once said about Congress Critters: They're one long step AWAY from being respectible.)

Let's hope Winston Churchill was right. Americans get around to "doing the right thing, eventually."

Because OUTSIDE OF THIS CASE, no matter that the INJUSTICE has been so long on-going, is the reality that the media is at war, even to the point of attempting to destroy our military, by making voluntary inlisting UNpleasant, and UNpopular.

I'm not even sure you'd call it a "conspiracy." Because it involves trying to change people's beliefs. And, I'm not so sure you can do that!

Sad, though, that an entire profession, like the law, has tanked. This is criminal court. And, civil courts are worse. Only 3% of all cases even get before a judge! It's just a "game" of intimidation. And, people "settle" just to cut their losses.

And, Walton "wants" the VP in his court room? HE CAN DEMAND THIS? By using his rulings to twist defense counsel?

Something's wrong.

While Bush was clever when he gave Tenet the Medal of Freedom. (What do all these prizes mean, anymore, anyway?) And, the "prize" was like tying Tenet's shoelaces together. He trips if he's mean to Bush. Because how could he do that, after getting "The Medal of Freedom?"

Unless you supported Libby going in; the brainwashing is that he's gonna get "sent upriver." Fitz hasn't even been caught out!

While Nifong ran into trouble. So my guess is that it's the world of sports, here, that's the least corrupt.

Carol Herman

Foo Bar: Joe Wilson's "middle" wife is French. She also works for french intelligence.

And, Wilson started making trips to Niger, around 1988.

As to TANG, it was the SECRETARY to the dead general who said NOT HER TYPEWRITER! NOT THE WAY HER BOSS OPERATED!

And, Lucy Ramirez is a fictitious person.

Dan Rather got blown out by his attempt to "change the way people were going to vote" in 2004. As a matter of fact, that one CBS show probably added 4-million votes to Bush's column. How so? There were people who weren't going to pick between Kerry and Bush. They were going to stay home!

Bush won in 2004 because the turnout was so great, the lawyers couldn't steal Electoral College Votes. Still? Drudge announced at 10:00 pm, on election night, that Bush's numbers had gone over the top. BUT NOT SO, THE TV STATIONS! I even remember Carville/Bagala, holding out. ANd, the silly CBS reports ... "hoping numbers" would turn the tide for kerry. Finally, at 3:00am Eastern. 1:00am, here. Carville just tossed in the towel.

WHile Kerry? Did not call Bush! He went to bed refusing to conceed. I think he didn't call until close to noon the next day. Not a gentlemen.

Besides, Foo Bar, I'm willing to conceed that "your side" walks out of the courthouse WITH a conviction! The democrapic camp thrives on hostile crowds. Boy, would I love to be proven wrong on how DC's "average jurors" react. And, even if they get their chance? Because, who knows? Walton may be listening intently to news reports. And, if that doesn't shock him, alert? Nothing will.

Heck, remember when they were questioning potential jurors, and the judge had to notice how all those who had followed the case, thought Libby's on trial for LEAKING.

The politics of hostility is getting very old.


Where the French are concerned there is always a conspiracy,remember de Villepin promising the support of France,poor Colin Powell getting ready for lunch/dinner with the man,only to see him on television stabbing America in the back at the UN.


It's a minor point, but shouldn't they have punished Doug Rohn, the writer of the INR
memo; then again sending him to Karachi as
Consul General, probably constitutes such
an action, (re; the Downing Street memo
writer was sent to Sarajevo, home of the
"Golden Chain" Al Queda network.

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