Powered by TypePad

« Look Backwards, Democrats! | Main | Novak - Hayden Won't Say If Plame Is "Covert" Under IIPA »

March 22, 2007

Comments

hit and run

Yet today, it [the surge] is what we are talking about - it is the new reality.


In which I quibble with the first part of that sentence (from the earmarks thread):

You notice that although dems continue to press for mealymouthed legislation aimed at undermining the war, they are not trying to cut off funds directly.

And dems are no longer really talking specifically about the surge. All the ballyhoo leading up to it was loud. But now, not so much.

1) There are signs of progress, which they certainly don't want to acknowledge.

2) They figure if they can wait things out (ie starve any good stories of oxygen), there will be some big nasty event eventually they can grab ahold of and shove down America's throat as evidence that all is lost.

Hell, let cynicism reign...

Did they object to the surge because they knew it had a good possibility of producing results favorable to the US?

Save me Obama! I am cyncical!

Maybe it's me, but I see little dem conversation about the surge itself. Iraq bad, yes. But that the surge itself should be discussed? Not so much.

jerry

I agree, as any reduction in violence associated with the surge just means that the insurgents have withdrawn until the surge is over.

The Dems should take this reality based position to counter unreal WH suggestions that the Surge is a success.

Gabriel Sutherland

I thought Senator Pryor(D-AR) had a good way of phrasing the position the American people favor.

I‘m opposed to a public timetable. I think we ought to get out of Iraq. I think we ought to work on that, and I think we ought to turn as much authority over to the Iraqis as quickly as possible. I‘m opposed to the surge. But I think it should be a classified timetable. And we do that on our own terms. It‘s just like in World War II. The Germans knew we were coming at D-day. They didn‘t know when and where. I don‘t want to telegraph what we‘re doing to the other side. Source: Hardball 3/16/2007

ErnestAbe

speaking of the surge....

Shiite militia may be disintegrating

By HAMZA HENDAWI and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA, Associated Press Writers Wed Mar 21, 7:21 PM ET

BAGHDAD - The violent Shiite militia known as the Mahdi Army is breaking into splinter groups, with up to 3,000 gunmen now financed directly by Iran and no longer loyal to the firebrand cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, adding a potentially even more deadly element to
Iraq's violent mix.

ErnestAbe

Regarding the whole "Reality Based" thing. Many folks have had a good laugh about Tom Delay's appearance last night on Chris Matthews, where he refused to accept facts, even when the evidence was put in front of his face, literally.

Matthews grilled DeLay about passages in his book where he apparently ripped into fellow Texan Dick Armey, eventually asking the Hammer about describing Armey as "drunk with ambition." DeLay denied writing that. "I wrote that he was 'blinded by his ambition.'" Matthews starts flipping though the book and finds the "drunk with ambition" quote and reads it to Bug Man. And DeLay keeps denying it. Finally, Chris hands the book to Tom and tells him to read it himself. DeLay looks down, pauses, and says "I don't have my glasses."

You can watch Delay's inability to deal with reality here.

jerry

Great op-ed in the LA Times today by Ron Brownstein:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-brownstein21mar21-2,0,1330641,print.column?coll=la-opinion-underdog

Sue

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0307/3258.html>Hoyer Won't Rule Out Extending War Vote

Is this another example of 'reality based'?

In a July 8, 2004, news release,...

"They ought to be ashamed of themselves, but when it comes to holding votes open and twisting the arms of their own members they clearly have no shame,’’ he went on. “These back-alley tactics have no place in the greatest deliberative body in the world. They might be the lifeblood of the tin-horn dictator, but not a world leader. It's an embarrassment.”

ErnestAbe

news on the surge...

Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon was unharmed as he ducked behind a podium after a rocket or mortar round landed near the prime minister’s office Thursday while the two men were holding a news conference.” Iraqi Prime Minister remained claim through the attack. CNN’s Kyra Phillips reported:

"For [Maliki] obviously, this is just another day in Baghdad, something that happens in Iraq every day. You feel and the mortar attacks, they happen all around this country. But obviously, in this situation, it startled the new Secretary- General, his first trip to Iraq, quite a reality check for him."

sylvia

Yup, some people talk and some people do.

windansea

news on the surge...

how does it feel to be a stooge for terrorists Abe?

jerry

Here's another bit of willful unreality via TalkingPointsMemo:

"This morning (WH spokesman) Snow told ABC News: 'The executive branch is under no compulsion to testify to Congress, because Congress in fact doesn't have oversight ability.'"

Now that flies in the face of a Everest sized heap of evidence.

lurker

He's probably referring to this particular fishing expedition so therefore, Congress doesn't have oversight ability over the firings of US Attorneys.

And he's probably right.

bgates

any reduction in violence associated with the surge just means that the insurgents have withdrawn until the surge is over.

Yeah, that's why we're still in Germany, because the US military has never won a war, we just get the enemy to withdraw until we leave. Sure, Gerry's been quiet the past 60 years - too quiet.

Jerry, you want to throw in any Minuteman references in your paean to the terrorists?

bgates

Trying to parse Jerry's suggested Dem position:
If violence is lower during the surge, it is because the insurgents are less active when our troops are present;
therefore, we must withdraw immediately.
?

bgates

Ernest, I've heard that Iraq requires a political solution. Your Madhi army story is saying that the most important anti-American in the Iraqi political process is being deserted by the goons who are the source of his power. If those goons are now going to be more violent and under foreign control, it's going to be easier for the Iraqis to brand them as illegitimate and destroy them. Sounds like Sadr and the Madhis are going to be much less of an obstacle than they were.

Syl

jerry

I agree, as any reduction in violence associated with the surge just means that the insurgents have withdrawn until the surge is over.

And by the time the 'surge is over' the Iraqi army should be able to deal with it. If they're not ready, the surge won't be ended.

The Dems should take this reality based position to counter unreal WH suggestions that the Surge is a success.

Yeah like demand the refugees be brought back home then abandon them. Many are already coming back to Baghdad and the Iraqi govt is helping them do so.

The Dems have to be very very very careful to pay attention to the REALITY in Iraq, not just to their own rhetoric.

Syl

jerry

Now that flies in the face of a Everest sized heap of evidence.

Congress has no rights to do oversight on the Executive internal political conversations and decision making process.


J. Bradford DeLong

My second cousin Bill is now in Baghdad, a first lieutenant in the 82nd. Should I be confident that he is being put at hazard as a result of a thoughtful and intelligent weighing of strategic goals and options?

BarbaraS

My second cousin Bill is now in Baghdad, a first lieutenant in the 82nd. Should I be confident that he is being put at hazard as a result of a thoughtful and intelligent weighing of strategic goals and options

Did your cousin volunteer or was he drafted?

donald

I have three nephews in Iraq. I thank each one of them daily. They, like Mr. Delong's cousin went in with their eyes open and the realization that terrible things could happen to them. They have established a level of bravery that I can only marvel at.

Brad DeLong

Indeed...

sylvia

"Yet today, it is what we are talking about - it is the new reality."

That's true, I did admire the "surge" idea because it did come out of the blue. Bush had a way of making his own "reality", rather than just reacting to the perceived reality.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame