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March 06, 2007

Comments

Patrick

Patrick R. Sullian: Your comment is well taken, as is that of whomever you quoted. Being a small firm practitioner, I am often amazed at the quality of large firm attorneys. Not to say that there aren't very good attorneys at the large high priced firms, but I find this more and more the exception.

And it was well known among anyone following this case that the blogs, in particular JOM were following this. The Defense attorneys did their client a massive disservice if they did not monitor them. Don't know if they did, but they certainly should have.

Jake - but not the one

Oh, and Tom, if the Media Matters list is so terrible, please rebut it, or if THAT is too much to ask, point me to some some source that does rebut it - unless, of course, your source is the same one as what's his name that came up with the Clinton-cronies-in-hot-water list - THAT list is proof of something, for sure, but I don't think you want to be hoist on that particular petard.

Birkenstocks, eh, arrowhead? Nope. Wife wears 'em. Even if I did, I's still like the line.

Hell, you're just jealous. :)

Jane, it's a drunken roll, I think. It's not nice make fun of the incapacitated like that, even if it is self-inflicted.

Jake

roanoke

this was the foreperson FWIW-

• Seat 12, Juror 0285: A white female who works as an accountant at Hogan & Hartson. She said she had no “strong opinion” about the war in Iraq.

arcanorum

"arcanorum, You are on quite a roll. I truly appreciate it."

My pleasure. Chin up, fair lady, I am quite confident that things will work out well in the end, both for Libby and for the nation.

lurker

From newsmax:

Will President pardon Libby?

Sara (Squiggler)

uh clem: start with EPIC, work your way thru the Who's Who and FEC reports, and then on to the SCSI report from Congress and then take a good hard look at who was pulling the strings in the Kerry campaign and the VIPs and the cabal at the CIA. Joe Wilson is a lying scumbag. You can think Libby is guilty in this trial, but to ignore the damage the Wilsons have done for their own political and financial gain is just lunacy.

anonymous

... expecting free health care, provided by the government (that is, from other tax payers)

... frivolous lawsuits; the money paid out, again, by tax payers

... contempt and hatred for law enforcement personnel

... disrespect for law and the decisions of courts (unless you personally profit from the decision)

All I can say is, Sara, you're really something. If nothing else, a fine example of the Far Right Wing in America today.

lurker
Seat 9, Juror 1869: A white male and a former Washington Post reporter who once had Bob Woodward as an editor. He used to share space with Tim Russert of “Meet the Press.” While he had questions about the Bush administration’s rationale for going to war, he said that, “I’m very skeptical about everything I hear until I see it backed up.”

Is this "conflict of interest"?

Sara (Squiggler)

Oh and for those who put their hopes in Giuliani, you better think twice. Rudy is Fitz's ideal, the poster boy for Federal attorneys.

lurker
From Quinn Hillyer at American Spectator:

J'accuse!

I accuse Patrick Fitzgerald of using the courts for a personal vendetta (related to the old Marc Rich case). I accuse Patrick Fitzgerald of improperly using his closing argument to broaden the case into an indictment of Dick Cheney and of thereby sliming Scooter Libby of guilt by association. I accuse Fitzgerald of improperly intimating to the jury that Libby betrayed deadly national secrets. I accuse Fitzgerald of extreme inconsistency in giving blanket immunity to Ari Fleisher without even knowing what Fleisher would say, while badgering Libby for hours on end in order to trap Libby into saying anything, anything at all, that this modern-day Inspector Javert could claim was perjury. I accuse Fitzgerald of manufacturing a case out of whole cloth even after knowing, almost from day one, that there was no underlying crime. I accuse Fitzgerald of treating Libby (and Rove) entirely differently from Richard Armitage. I accuse Fitzgerald of manifold abuses of his prosecutorial authority and discretion. I accuse Fitzgerald of persecuting an innocent man. I accuse Fitzgerald of megalomania. I accuse Fitzgerald of bloodlust. In short, I accuse Patrick Fitzgerald of being a lousy excuse for a human being. And I hope our Maker, the Great Author of All Justice, will do true justice in the end."

Amen, brother Quinn!

Then he needs to file a lawsuit against Fitz!!

hit and run

ewnay eadthray

roanoke

lurker

You'd think.

hit and run

latin be pig backwards translation-

New Thread.

Sara (Squiggler)

All I can say is, Sara, you're really something. If nothing else, a fine example of the Far Right Wing in America today.

Gag! Far right wing! Gag again. Free health care, that's Hillary's game. Frivolous lawsuits, huh, isn't that Edward's game? Contempt and hatred for law enforcement -- you bet. Respect where respect is due. ... disrespect for law and the decisions of courts (unless you personally profit from the decision), yeah right.

The right wing hates libertarians as much as libertarians hate the obscene left. I am a libertarian, and proud of it.

Deagle

I'm with you Sara regarding Guiliani, but if it boils down to him against Clinton, Obama, or another of the socialists, just who am I suppose to vote for that has a chance of winning?

hit and run

Sara's as far right wing as I am a teatotaler.

Sue

I am starting to think we have a new scandal. The recent "I feel obligated to give interviews" juror, Denis Collins, had no business being on this jury.

hit and run

...and I love her for it.

Lest there be any doubt where I stand.


hic

uh_clem

start with EPIC, work your way thru the Who's Who and FEC reports, and then on to the SCSI report from Congress and then take a good hard look at who was pulling the strings in the Kerry campaign and the VIPs and the cabal at the CIA.

Wait wait wait. I haven't even gotten my tin foil hat from the dispensery yet. None of those docs will show me anything until I put that on. Does the shiny side go on the outside or the inside?

Carol Herman

FROM CAROL HERMAN

OJ walks free. Everybody knows he killed his ex-wife AND the Goldman kid. And, to this day he has lawyers that protect his wealth from civil lawsuits he lost.

DC is one really strange town! If you want good schools for your kids? You don't live IN DC at all. But in Virginia.

It's a good place, though, for a government job. Though your streets aren't safe. And, except for the monuments, there's not all that much to see, either.

Is this a lousy day for Libby? YES! What's his biggest mistake? Taking a job in the Bush White House.

I find it odd that the jurors claim they "felt sympathy for Libby." When actually they felt ANGER THEY COULDN'T GET BIGGER FISH!

Wells tried to get more information into waltoon's court room. But was stymied. If robed wonders are proud of waltoon then they may get surprised that most people don't think waltoon is the only judge that stinks to the high heavens.

You'd think people who earned their living at the law, would worry more about what just happened. But for all we know they've got th same mindset that once existed in Detroit. Where management AND the unions drove customers away.

Well, you can't drive law away, now can you? But you sure can look at them differently, now, when you see a badge flashed in your face.

Me? I wonder what happens when the DVD of RUssert making his contrary claims, surfaces.

Because if he's happy Libby's guilty, then he fails to see how he contributed to this disaster. Let little tim be proud for awhile. But in the long run? NBC is skunked.

Deagle

Amen...regarding Sara. Just in case my comment was taken incorrectly.

Libby's a Liar

It is sad that Fitmas is over, but getting one present is better than getting no present at all.

Sara (Squiggler)

Since TM has republished his predictions, so will I -- I was wrong, I expected a hung jury on 4 counts and not guilty on one. I never expected Libby to be found not guilty on all counts.

kate

What do the following people/groups of people have in common:

John Bolton;
the Haditha Marines;
Scooter Libby;
CIA agents in Europe under indictment;
3 US soldiers in Spain; 1 in Italy charged with murder for friendly fire incidents;
Border Patrol Agents;
Tom Delay

Well, these are people that were not adequately defended by George W. Bush.

lurker

Will Libby Conviction Mean More Reporter Subpoenas?

I think so and the last paragraph's predictions will probably ring true.

The overall impact of the case, which saw several reporters subpoenaed for information on their sources - and at least one jailed - has been felt already, Freeman said. "I think sources are a little more careful in dealing with reporters," Freeman noted. "That is a pity, that it would slow that access to sources."

Apparently, Fitz set a precedence that may or may not bode well for the future.

Charlie (Colorado)

Beam me up, Mr. Scott. There is no intelligent life here.

Somehow I just know that doesn't mean he's gone.

lurker

I am glad this investigation is over and there will be no present by the time it's all over with.

Moose

Hey does any one remember the name Sandy Burger? Did he do anything wrong?

lurker

Yeah, moose, that's what Mark Levin said.

How did Jay Rockefeller get away with it, btw?

Joe Gloor

Moose - "Hey does any one remember the name Sandy Burger? Did he do anything wrong?"

I think Burger said that he 'accidentally' stuffed classified documents down is pants and in his socks, so it wasn't 'wrong', it was just an 'accident'.

Patton

Hey Libby's a Liar, don't be sad, Fitzmas isn't over.

No, Fitzmas isn't over as long as you carry the hate in your heart. As long as you believe in Fitzmas, believe that Bush is evil and that the 'Snipers Wanted' sign pasted on him was a good idea. As long as you believe the terrorist bombers should have gotten Cheney in Afghanistan, you will always carry Fitzmas with you.

As long as you still believe Dan Rather National Guard forgeries, and that Kerry actually was wounded in Vietnam, and that Sandy Burglar is just sloppy, not a theif trying to keep information from the 9/11 commission.

As long as you remember that Saddam is good, and Bush is the terrorist and that the terrorist at GITMO are just misunderstood taxi drivers and that buying 28,000 Square foot houses and railing against global warming can be done with a straight face, you will always have Fitzmas.

Sing with me know, Libbys a Liar, and keep Fitzmas in our hearts:

UNILATERAL DISARMAMENT, ABORTION ON DEMAND, TAKE THE US SOLDIERS GUNS AWAY AND TOSS THEM IN THE SAND, FREE NEEDLES FOR THE ADDICTS, FREE CONDOMS FOR YOUR KIDS, WE WILL NOT BLAME ARMITAGE, FOR ANYTHING HE DID; FOR WHO'S TO SAY WHAT'S RIGHT OR WRONG, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS SIN.

There, sleep well now L.A.L., and believe!

Sara (Squiggler)

I'm with you Sara regarding Guiliani, but if it boils down to him against Clinton, Obama, or another of the socialists, just who am I suppose to vote for that has a chance of winning?

IF, big IF, he gets the nod, then I'll hold my nose and figure anything is better than Obama or Hillary. I support Romney, not because of any right wing stance but because he is the smartest candidate out there and he is a pragmatist who knows how to get a job done. Unfortunately, the ideologues never think about actually doing the job after the election.

hit and run

Merry Fitzmas.

Now, let's get Fitz back to the North Pole.

Missy

Whatazmatter anonymous, Scared Sara will make you look like an idiot when it comes to the issue at hand, instead you choose to prove your stupidity on another issue? Like no one would notice?

Now who was that whining about Carol Herman? He needs to step forward and take responsibility for this crud!

Fair is fair and all better be fair in liberal land, right?

Deagle

Okay, we are in agreement... I also do not think he would be the ideal candidate, but surely would vote for him over the Democratic alternative.

Yep, I'm beginning to think that elections do not matter so much anymore...seems as if the media is a bigger player than the political parties.

anonymous

What issue ? Looks like a lot of whining and sour grapes ...

Jane

Looks like a lot of whining and sour grapes ...

Makes me wonder why you are here, what with all that celebrating going on at the swamp...

Sara (Squiggler)

seems as if the media is a bigger player than the political parties.

Sometimes you need to totally destroy an institution and then rebuild it from the ground up. If W had the balls I no longer believe he has, he would unleash every agency in the government on the NYT and the WaPo, Reuters and the AP.

Deagle

Sara,

Dang... I love your ideas!

MayBee

I don't blame the defense team. The problem is those charges.

When you put a jury in the position to decide if someone committed a crime for saying they were "surprised", or committed obstruction in a case that had really already been solved, I just don't know how you defend against that.

The jurors thought the 9 people that had talked to Libby about Plame were credible. The juror today didn't even mention their memory problems. I don't know what more they could have used to defend against that.

Any jury willing to think Libby was protecting Cheney (from what?) after hearing Armitage on tape was not ever going to go a different way.

If there is ever again a Special Investigation, rather than 1 prosecutor they need 3-person panel (or something similar). It is apparently all too easy for 1 person to lose his sense of perspective.

MikeS

I suppose I would feel slightly better if Russert were to partner up with Dan Rather.

glass

Matt Cooper on Hardball: should never have retracted the "16 words".

SunnyDay

Rudy is Fitz's ideal, the poster boy for Federal attorneys.

***********************

Good I want one of these on our side. Enough with Mr. Nice Guy.

Deagle

SunnyDay,

You certainly do have a valid point! Still not sure about going down the same road as the left - I know, what am I waiting for - it will only get worse (still naive and waiting for justice).

glass

Matt Cooper's attorney: "I could not believe the antipathy toward the White House" during voire dire.

goldwater

glass,

Could not agree more with that. Biggest mistake in this whole thing was to cave in on that. British intel still stands by it as does independent British report to say nothing of the 9/11 Commission. Big mistake.

MayBee

Matt Cooper's attorney: "I could not believe the antipathy toward the White House" during voire dire.

For those that have wondered why Bush hasn't gone after his critics *more*, this case makes it the self-answering question.

The news agencies, for the most part, advance the case of the critics. They market the message, can drum up support for an investigation, can create an atmosphere of "antipathy for the white house" that will influence any future juries.

This administration working in this media environment is like Coke having to let Pepsi manage Coke's advertising.

maryrose

kate:
I am disappointed that the American justice system is so flawed. I am OK however and I feel on appeal or with a pardon Libby will be all right. I did watch "Hardball" today and they echoed juror Collins' take on it. Where's Rove? where's Cheney? Matthews said and I quote" Why is Libby swinging and not Cheney?" I kid you not. I feel like Alice in Wonderland. And now we have Matthews as Little Sir Echo of Fitz declaring there is a "cloud over Cheney" Fitz should be sued for defamation of character.

JM Hanes

roanoke:

Fascinating link. Just for the JOM record, I think it's worth posting LegalTimes' descriptions of all 12 Jurors:

Seat 1, Juror 1593: A white male who works as a Web architect with the General Services Administration. His partner works in the Federal Public Defender’s office. Of the war in Iraq, he says, “It’s a very troubling situation that the country is in. It’s the kind of thing where we can’t stay and we can’t go.”

Seat 2, Juror 0039: A white male who works as an investment banker. He has a Ph.D. from MIT and worked on the Council of Economic Advisers for a year during the Clinton administration.

Seat 3, Juror 0207: A white female who works at a travel agency and enjoys watching “Judge Judy.”

Seat 4, Juror 1432: A retired math teacher from North Carolina. Of President George W. Bush, he said, “I don’t always agree with his Iraq policy. He had more information than I do, certainly. But it seems to me, if it were me making the decision, I would have gone in with 500,000 troops.”

Seat 5, Juror 1543: A white female who works as an insurance policy analyst. Her only comments on the Bush administration were, “Like every citizen, I support some things the administration has done and oppose some things. I haven’t questioned anyone’s motives.”

Seat 6, Juror 2027: A white female who works in the consumer protection section of the Federal Trade Commission. She had no opinions on the war or the Bush administration.

Seat 7, Juror 2148: A white female who works in international health policy with the Department of Health and Human Services. Of the war in Iraq she said, “Personally, I think there was some information that was not shared. But I also know sometimes information is not shared with the public for public safety.” She added she was not “particularly impressed” with Vice President Dick Cheney.

Seat 8, Juror 1473: A white art historian with a Ph.D. from the University of London and spent many years working as a curator, including at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

Seat 9, Juror 1869: A white male and a former Washington Post reporter who once had Bob Woodward as an editor. He used to share space with Tim Russert of “Meet the Press.” While he had questions about the Bush administration’s rationale for going to war, he said that, “I’m very skeptical about everything I hear until I see it backed up.”

Seat 10, Juror 1660: A white woman who works in hotel sales and said she was “master of all things involving celebrity gossip” but know nothing about current affairs. Nonetheless, she said, “You don’t forget a name like Scooter.”

Seat 11, Juror 0410: A black woman who was part of the grounds crew at the White House during the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations. She now is an administrator for the National Park Service.

Seat 12, Juror 0285: A white female who works as an accountant at Hogan & Hartson. She said she had no “strong opinion” about the war in Iraq.


So much for the vaunted Juror #7, eh?

Jane

With those resumes I am more shocked than before about the heart t-shirts.

MayBee

Jane- Oh good point! I'm trying to imagine the Denis Collins that we saw today wearing a valentine t-shirt.
Maybe the juror that brought them was the hottest female .

TM

Oh, and Tom, if the Media Matters list is so terrible, please rebut it

Oh, there time is coming; my memory is not that bad, yet...

Tom Maguire

"There time is coming": My grammar, on the other hand...

Carol Herman

FROM CAROL HERMAN

Well, all they got was Libby!

And, one reason Libby wasn't on the stand, and Cheney never came in, is that Wells knew waltoon was waiting to have at this Bush administration with a hatchet.

And, ya know what? This juror isn't even curious about the MEET THE DEPRESSED show that kicked it all off.

In other words?

Nobody's seen what angered Cheney. (It was Amb. Wilson's appearance on Chris Matthews' TV show.) But nobody went to look.

And, if the jurors think Russert wears two hats, good luck to them!

Because we've turned education inside out.

On the other hand? As time passes? You don't think you'll see the snippets that waltoon didn't allow? He didn't allow Wells to question Andrea Mitchell. Instead, with the NBC lawyer Black-berrying from the last seat in his courtroom; you saw stuff that usually isn't so wide open. NBC was controlling waltoon.

And, the jury didn't notice.

I think the next show OPENS in Congress. You heard this from Fitz' lips. He's gonna "halp" the senators drive a mack truck through this white house. Even though pelosi should never be given a driver's license. And Harry Reid is about as dirty a politician as you can get.

THE GOOD NEWS? BUSH ISN'T RUNNING FOR OFFICE IN 2008.

What you need to hope for is that the GOP can still mound a campaign where another GOP kiester does better. And, lands inside the White House. (But ya know? Odds are bad.)

Meanwhile what do the donks have except their legal mischief?

By the way can Libby go to jail? YUP. So did Martha Stewart. Having done nothing wrong. Having been a citizen in this country who worked her way up the difficult ladder of success; she found herself on the "wrong side of the law."

And our schools are just as screwed up. Want to meet the type of person personafied by Libby's talking juror? Go to a public school. Look around at what you see at school conferences.

Look at how credentialed incompetents protect themselves. You'd think it was a convocation of priests.

ErnestAbe

TM:

Eventually, someone ought to grill some NBC producers and see whether they might have had access to the Novak column on the 11th, either directly or from a contact in the news biz. Had Fitzgerald been running a serious leak investigation (or even a serious perjury investigation) he would have done this himself just to pin down a loose end and maybe avoid a serious mistake.

If this is so plausable, then why didn't the defense pursue this line of investigation?

Carol Herman

FROM CAROL HERMAN

Miscarriages of justice have a way of sticking in the craw.

When I was young my parents spoke of Sacco and Vincetti. What did hanging those two Italian men do? It turned the Italian community away from trusting lawmen. And, the Mafia zoomed up in respect, instead.

When we decide that our laws can malfunction, it creates waves.

Yes, we're in a political pickle, now. BOTH PARTIES are in the minority. Neither one produces candidates, beyond sound bites, than anyone really trusts. Some? Have better speaker's skills than others.

But the idea that Libby could be guilty, when you look at the behaviors of the jurors. The behaviors of NBC. And, you notice that the "fix was in" inside waltoon's courtroom ... what do you think can ever come out of this that is good?

Something's gone bad within our legal system. It's been on this track since Guiliani, himself, went after Michael Milken. Destroying lives hasn't brought you to a more honest Wall Street.

And, if anything, Alan Greenspan's "invisible hand" was at play keeping Andrea Mitchell out of waltoon's courtroom.

Just because waltoon said NBC couldn't add anything. And, just because the jurors were sure "Libby lied." Where was any information out there to counter that?

Oh, yes. It will come out. Just as you know OJ really murdered Nicole, and Ron Goldman. What you're left with is the frustration that you can't do anything about it at all.

You don't even ask how the Novak's article, with Cheney's notations, got to be fodder for the jurors to contemplayte. It wasn't submitted for the truth. It was submitted to show "Libby's state of mind."

And, when pigs are your judge, this is what happens.

kazinski

Libby's lawyers screwed the pooch when they let Juror 9 on the panel. Then again he may be what paves the way for Libby's retrial.

I'm dissapointed Libby was convicted, but it doesn't rehabilitate Joe Wilson. Joe Wilson is going to have the WaPo's words attatched to his name for the rest of his life: He diverted responsibility from himself and his false charges by claiming that President Bush's closest aides had engaged in an illegal conspiracy. It's unfortunate that so many people took him seriously.

Lewis Libby was the biggest loser here, but the press wasn't far behind. In fact it would surprise me if Libby serves a tenth as much time as Judith Miller did.

gumshoe1


"...get your facts straight. Joe Wilson outed his own wife months before the Novak article was written."

So, where do I find "facts" like this? Other than in the comments section of blogs, of course.

Posted by: uh_clem | March 06, 2007 at 02:57 PM

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