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March 13, 2007

Comments

Tom Bowler

I'm not sure how this fits in, but didn't Andrea and Richard have something of a spat? Could it have had something to do with Richard cheating on her with Woodward? Whispering sweet nothings to Bob that should have been for her ears? I don't know the timing of the falling out.

clarice feldman

We may never find out. NBC was smart enough to offer Harlow a consultancy months later when he left the agency.(My guess--Harloe gave her a little; Armitage told her more; but Armitage told her she had to keep mum about the details which is why she was furious with him when Novak broke the story.)P.S> Didn't she call Libby on or after July 8 in the very period when the town was abuzz..

Semanticleo

"One more puzzle piece that does not quite fit."

Nothing puzzling about CYA. She looks both ways before crossing a one-way street and makes sure Hubby has both suspenders And a belt to hold up his pantaloons. She had no idea of the volatility. She finds little value in speaking truth to power if she's gonna get burnt. She wants to move on and seconds that emotion by gracing us with vomitus such as; "I think the majority of the American public want to see a pardon"

Putri-satisfaction

Pofarmer

Maybe she got one of those "You should check out what Wilson's wife does" leaks.

Other Tom

I seem to recall Novak telling us not to attach any significance to his use of the term "operative"--he was pretty adamant that the term was not intended to connote anything about her job description; he said it was his own word, and he used it in the sense that he uses it in "political operative."

stevesh

Jefferson, et.al. to King George = Truth to power.
Solzhenitsyn to Kremlin = Truth to power.
Chinese fellow in front of tank @ Tien Square = Truth to power.

C/Mantix - Please, for the love of all that is good, beautiful, and true, stop using that useless trope. It means nothing unless the "power" spoken to is pointing something more dangerous than a Meet the Press dog&bone at your head.

danking70

TM, all you have to do is get Mitchell drunk and she'll sing like a bird.

Best time is probably before the Imus show. He's probably the only one in the media willing to ask the right questions.

Other Tom

For our dear Cleo's benefit, here is Senator Bob Graham, speaking truth to power:

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."

Letter to President Bush, 12/5/2001

(Would those "reinvigorated" programs perhaps be synonymous with the "reconstituted" ones? Perhaps Pete knows something about this...)

Other Tom

Stevesh, I can't speak for the young fellow who stood in front of the Chinese tank, but I am confident that both Jefferson and Sozhenitsyn would have been utterly nauseated by the phrase, "speaking truth to power." It is used uniquely by sanctimonious blowhards, and without fail in an attempt to portray themselves or those they support as courageous and morally superior to the rest of us, and above all to the "power." Can you imagine either of those men stooping to such trite and senseless preening?

MarkO

The “mystery” with the NBC employees is not that grave. They likely did exactly what you surmise. The problem was in putting those facts into evidence in the case. I see no mystery. I see lack of evidence. Different stuff.

For my part, I want to lie to weakness. Except Cleo, who is simply too weak.


stevesh

OtherTom - More truth to power:

"To the German Commander, Nuts! A.C. McAuliffe, Commanding."

Deagle

Off Topic... Thanks for your help in filling in for Mr. Instapundit (Meagan is not bad either). Not quite as interesting as his posts but reasonable... Just a bit different... heh.

Other Tom

Right, Stevesh--and how about Nathan Hale? It makes one's skin crawl to see the phrase used on behalf of assorted grandstanders and political hacks today.

Sue

To the German Commander, Nuts! A.C. McAuliffe, Commanding."

I was going to say the other day that Bush should send a note back to the oversight committees with one word...Nuts! I wasn't sure if anyone would know what I was referring to or if any of the congress people would get it either.

LabDancer

Tom - You have to get with the times. This story is SOOOOO last week.

It's just like in the Bond or Batman movies. THIS week we have Kyle Sampson in the title role in "Scooter Redux: On the Trail of the Unfortunate Email Cache. You will recall in the last episode Little Berto just happened to be working late when he fielded a call from one of his boyz in the hood, ChiTown's Patrick Fitzgerald [as he is known to the world by day - but at night he becomes ... Sub - P - MAN!', giving AG the future AG a little courtesy heads up about his sending over a little subpoena - leading [Who knows?] to the loss of over 250 emails and Scooter's hard drive - the one with his personally typed version of Big Time's Talking Points for Judy Miller!

In this episode, a plot twist - Berto has been promoted to the point that he's too busy rehearsing holding his sphincter and acting Sphinx-like to answer a mere PHONECALL, for crying out - and so isn't is TOO SLOW to intercept the massive missive sent hurtling back over to Congress from Sampson's life work - getting Tiny Tim a Christmas present.

And next week? Who knows with the Perils of the Prez - Will he return to Washington and say "What the f**k happened while I was gone? Where's Big Time? Where's Turd Blossom? ... anybody?"

And here I thought this Friday would be all about the next stage in Rove's downfall from Plamegate. The way things are going with the DoJ story, neither he nor Alberto G will be in office by the time Waxman gets to their names on that little list he's got.

jerry

Plame sending Joe was a talking point at least when Armitage talked with Woodward in early June 2003 -- their whole conversation formally walks through the post-Wilson op-ed OVP (July 2003) talking points... making me think that someone, perhaps Libby, got these across both to Bob and Rich prior to their conversation.

IMO "Plame sending Joe" was actually the cover devised for a direct attack on Val, Joe wasn't their opponent re:WMDs Val was (maybe Kristof's May 2003 article got them worried).

If Joe was so important why bother bringing up Val at all, with this complicated covert or overt or classified legal crap? The reason is that Val was always the real target to be punished.

Mitchell was just pushing the WH talking points re:"operatives" (just like Novak) in her robotic boneheaded manner.

Other Tom I'll pre-empt you, learning from yesterday's comments, and say that there's lots of evidence that the WH knew about Plame before Wilson's op-ed -- the question is for how long did they know?

For instance, Woodward says to Armitage re:Val:

"Why doesn't that come out? Why does that have to be a big secret? Everyone knows."

Woodward not only knew about Val at the CIA in early June 2003 but he suggests it "(had)to be a big secret."

What does that say, esp when no government official is willing to comment about Plame to this day?

topsecretk9

Apparently LabDancer doesn't really look at Tom's blog before criticizing Tom for content he's already posted.

Too funny.

Neo

I love how these news-people play a good game of 1st amendment rights until the subpoenas start to fly.

What happened to the 'public's right to know" ? .. as they play dumb.

topsecretk9

esp

That's what Valerie has.

topsecretk9

Neo

Gregory is a really, really crappy proxy.

stevesh

Lab -

Nuts

Jeff

Tom

Don't forget who else Andrea Mitchell interviewed about the 16 words controversy and Wilson on July 8: Scooter Libby, who was happy the next day to let Cathie Martin take the hit from Steve Hadley for running down the CIA to Mitchell the day before.

You gotta save Mitchell's credibility from last night. Someone capable of making such an inexplicably harebrained statement about the polling on Libby's pardon is capable of saying, well, just about anything on television.

MayBee

Don't forget who else Andrea Mitchell interviewed about the 16 words controversy and Wilson on July 8: Scooter Libby,

Are you surprised Fitzgerald never asked her about that conversation?

You gotta save Mitchell's credibility from last night

Who has to?

MikeS

I have a hypothesis too!
Many people knew about Plame in the month preceding the Novak piece, but the White House didn’t leak it and no one wrote about it because they thought it was unimportant insignificant blather. It has never been important. The only reason anyone ever thought it might be important is because of Novak’s irregular use of the word ‘operative’ to describe her in his piece.

I think that(at NBC)an intern or someone hired expressly for the purpose, read Novak’s story on the pre pub wire and passed the 'operative' terminology on to Russert. Russert, feeling as though he had been scooped, broached the subject with Scooter Libby. Something in Russert’s voice struck Libby. He was surprised that all of the sudden someone (Russert) thought the wife was important.

What I like about this theory is that the pre pub wire reader should be findable.

MayBee

perhaps Libby, got these across both to Bob and Rich prior to their conversation.

Oh good heavens, Jerry. As if Libby is some puppet master and no-one has a thought unless Libby puts it in their heads.
Don't you think maybe Woodward, you know, read Kristof and Pincus and knew Pincus was talking to Wilson? Why would he not ask about Wilson?
Besides, he started the conversation asking about Scowcroft, which led to Wilson.
That theory is just silly.

pete

Well well. As promised Tuesday was fun fun fun.

Subprime lenders going belly-up all over the country. So begins the panic stage of the housing market bust and the worst recession since the Great depresssion. And who will America have to thank but none other than the deregulating repuglicans. Is anyone going to be surprised when they learn that BushCo pressured federal banking regulators as well as state regulators to severely limit their influence on the subprime mortgage market that fueled the housing ponzi scheme.

Your party is dying. When it dies there will be no rising from the ashes. This is the end of the repugs. We couldn't have done it without you.

So long suckers!

pete

Oh and keep up the discussion about how many Libby fairies would fit on the tip of a needle. Dig-in. By all means. Dig-in!

Neo

So what happened to "Sealed vs Sealed" ?

Neo

pete:

This is a buying opportunity. There are going to be auctions that follow those foreclosures, and you can get in on the ground floor, if you have saved up a little money to make the investment now.

Ralph L.

"Is anyone going to be surprised when they learn that BushCo pressured federal banking regulators "
The Dems already did this in the 80's. But you're too young to remember Speaker Wright trying to save the bankrupt Texas S&Ls or the Keating Five. Or the work Hillary did to try to save her business partner Jim McDougal from investigation.

Ralph L.

Sorry, forgot the ! after Hillary.

pete

Six years of the repugs stealing from you while you sleep and you still do not recognize the fingerprints they leave on your wallet each morning.

Jeff

Who has to?

Tom does, otherwise Mitchell looks like a real dingbat, and there's no particular reason to think there's anything to her comments about she and others knowing about Plame. As in fact looks to be the case. I mean, this comment shows she is perfectly capable in the moment of making comments totally at odds with the facts of the matter. Sometimes I think the FBI went to talk to her, and she said, I won't talk with you, I have nothing to do with it, nobody told me about Plame before I read about it in the papers, leave me alone.

But I do wonder how investigators found out about Mitchell's conversation with Cheney at the Ford-Greenspan celebration party.

Ralph L.

Jez, Pete, which party favors high tax rates with shelters for their friends/clients?

sylvia

I can relate, Dave. My last name is a German last name, which I won't reveal here, that starts with the orignal German spelling of "Sch". I think German-Americans are a dying breed because when I was young no one thought twice about the "Sch" and pronounced it as it's meant to be pronounced, like "Sh". However, as time goes on, I notice more and more people are having trouble pronouncing it from it's spelling and are trying to pronounce it literally like "Szh" or "SKh" (which isn't even a sound), like it's some sort of Polish name. I think I even got arrested once because people couldn't spell my name. So I bet David Shuster's name is really spelled "Schuster" but he got tired of having to respell it for everyone and finally changed it to "Shuster".

sylvia

"or, she got a less detailed "Wilson's wife is at the CIA" leak from someone else at State and couldn't connect it to Harlow's information."

Just because Armitage blabbed all to Woodward and such, doesn't mean everyone at State heard it the same way. Maybe she just got the cliff notes from Armitage, because he wasn't as close to her.

Ralph L.

Sylvia, around here in piedmont NC, the descendants of Germans that I work for put an "sh" sound for an "s" in names: Moser is pronounced Mosher. Which probably explains why there are a lot of distant cousins of mine with an "sh" in their last name were I have an "s". It's especially irritating that we're outnumbered, so people are always misspelling our name.

sylvia

You know still thinking about the "Sch". I think the trouble with the pronunciations has a marked relationship to the decline of consumption of such worthy beers such as "Schlitz".

sylvia

Yeah Ralph, watch out for them Englisch.

sylvia

Where's Piedmont NC. Is that in the mountains?

Neo

The one thing that the Clintons did that no Republican could ever do was show everybody just how many rich Democrats there were.

For years the Republicans were labeled "the Party of the Rich" but through their (non fund raising) parties, the Clintons managed to find more rich Democrats than Carter makes of those "liver pills".

bgates

But Pete, the people using subprime mortgages are the bad credit risks. The unemployed and unemployable, drug addicts, alcoholics, felons, people who can't save up a down payment, people who are bad at math....

You know - Democrats.

pete

bgates

Your ignorant. As if you didn't already know that.

Do a little reading and you will find that most subprimes were made to "flippers" and middle class americans who were getting priced-out of the prime mortages during the housing ponzi scheme.

clarice feldman

I'll cry tomorrow for the "flippers". As for those caught in the "housing ponzi scheme", I was just as sympathetic with those caught in the tech bubble burst.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

arcanorum

"So begins the panic stage of the housing market bust and the worst recession since the Great depresssion."

typical. glee at the thought of the economy tanking.

Fear not fool, this economy can weather this turbulence. watch out world, America, bigger faster stronger.

MayBee

Tom does, otherwise Mitchell looks like a real dingbat, and there's no particular reason to think there's anything to her comments about she and others knowing about Plame.

She has had a bad string of comments about this case, but her body of work shows her not to be a dingbat. Certainly misstating the poll numbers doesn't negate the comments that she made that started her on this wild ride.
I suspect we'll never know more about what she said and meant back then. Her comments about people knowing about Valerie mirror Kristof's comments, however.
As for whether she talked to the FBI? I vote yes, just like Tim did, and she told them she received no leak from Libby.

topsecretk9

Josh Gerstein is one of the only INTERESTING reporters - I mean he actually reports on interesting things - unlike, oh well

A constitutional clash is looming in a Virginia courtroom after federal prosecutors proposed barring the public from hearing some evidence at the upcoming trial of two former lobbyists for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

Defense lawyers for the two men, Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman, have objected vigorously to the unusual proposal to present secret evidence...

...A source familiar with the case said the government proposed giving jurors headphones to listen to audio recordings of intercepted and wiretapped phone conversations key to the case. While the defendants and the judge would be able to hear the audio, the press and public would not, the source said.

"It's a big deal," the executive director of the Reporters Committee, Lucy Dalglish, said. She said her group's initial research has found no case where the government was permitted to present extensive evidence that the public never saw.

Ms. Dalglish said the proposed secrecy is the latest troubling development in a case she already finds distressing. "I am not aware of anything as drastic as what I have heard has been mentioned in this case," she said. "This is a very important case in which two lobbyists are accused of violating the Espionage Act by taking information from a government source and turning it over to others, which is functionally not all that different from what reporters do every day. We think the media and the public has an unusually direct interest in how this trial is going to be conducted...

...Lawyers for the two ex-lobbyists are expected to argue that special warnings to the jury about keeping evidence in the case secret could undercut the pair's defense, which includes an argument that the information disclosed by the men did not represent a threat to America or a potential boon to a foreign government.

Defendants are guaranteed public trials in criminal cases by the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution...

...Several New York-based groups that have objected to the use of secret evidence against terrorism suspects were silent yesterday about the developments in the Aipac case.

Oh those silly lefitst activist groups, they are so principled and unbigoted!

http://www.nysun.com/article/50392?page_no=3

topsecretk9

OH...this was my favorite part of the article

Mr. Rosen's attorney, Abbe Lowell, could not be reached.

SlimGuy

I find it interesting that we have jurors in the Libbey trial out getting their 15 minutes of fame, but the GJ members whom the prosecutor alone seats seem to be very quiet.

Lawyer types are the penalties for post GJ service or are they free to discuss what went on after being released?

Syl

But I do wonder how investigators found out about Mitchell's conversation with Cheney at the Ford-Greenspan celebration party.

Something is going ding in my head. hasn't Andrea been like 'did' 'did not!' when it came to admitting talking to investigators?

I seem to remember waaaaaay in the beginning there was talk of the party and that investigators were speaking to some of those who had attended.

There was a list of names published somewhere and Andrea's name was on it. She said that was a mistake and she had not spoken to anyone.

But another guest may have mentioned the chat with Cheney.

I think Andrea spoke to the investigator and simply said she was not a recipient of a leak.

Well, neither was Russert and we know how that turned out. Assuming that being a recipient of a leak from the administration was all anyone was interested in can lead to, erm, interesting problems.

I'd love to hear what her definition of 'leak' and 'from' were at the time.

Syl

tops

Several New York-based groups that have objected to the use of secret evidence against terrorism suspects were silent yesterday about the developments in the Aipac case.

What they're being truly idiots over, besides their obvious bigotry, is the desire to try all terrorists (Gitmo) in our criminal justice system. Perhaps their silence over this matter is more ::fingers in my ears I can't hear you::

They were right to object to secret evidence against terrorists and I'm sure they saw the danger those precedents would set in our system. But they simply refuse to make the connection.

It's not as if the gitmo guys wouldn't get a fair hearing in a military tribunal--not at all--but ignoring the harm the requirements could cause to our system completely escapes them as a valid reason for going along with the tribunals. Instead they fought them.

I saw this disconnect on C-SPAN one night. A very lefty ConLaw professor held a forum re all the ways Bush is 'shredding the Constitution'. There was one Rep on the panel who was quite anti-Bush and very very anti-Iraq--the panel's 'opposition token' I guess.

At one point he mentioned secret evidence as a problem which could pollute our own criminal justice system. And I saw it in her eyes--a little flash of 'oh my, I never thought of that'--a little hesitation, a nod, then she waved it off as if she'd never heard it.

Tunnel vision--they have their 'cause' and that's that.

Patton

We don’t need moral judgment from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
--- Nancy Pelosi

So is she signing off on torture, mass killings, carpet bombing villages? She wants the military to throw morals out the window.

Maybe she's not so bad after all.

Jane

Good Morning peeps! The coffee is brewing, help yourselves!

LabDancer

Well, it was amusing for a while. But just as even John Falstaff was dragged from his last great debauch to return to duty, I, like Pete, must beg my leave and bid you all fond farewell.

Adieu, you denizens of Never-Never Land. May you sleep every bit as well as Scooter from now to mid-June, right through the coming Reformation.

- LabDancer

royf

Opps! looks like the Iranians lost another one. hehe!

Iran army loses touch with senior officer based in Iraq


Haaretz | March 14 2007

The London-based Arabic language newspaper A-Sharq al-Awsat reported Wednesday that the Iranian army has lost contact with one of its high-ranking officers based in Iraq.

The report states that the officer, Mohammed Muhsayin Shiradi, from a unit in the Jerusalem Brigade, has not been in touch with his commanders for three weeks.

A senior source in the Iranian military told the newspaper that it is possible that Shiradi has been arrested by American forces.

(snip)

Pofarmer

Isn't it interesting that pete seems to totaly disregard the idea of personal responsiblity. Nobody made a bunch of people go out and buy houses beyond their means.

As far as the "Greatest depression since the great depression" or whatever. I thought we were already in the worst economy since the Great Depression?

Those Dims, optimistic bunch, no?

Patton

ATTENTION MEMBERS OF THE VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY.

We have been re-activated!

Report to duty stations, you know what to do.

ILLARYHAY ISWAY ONWAY OTAY USWAY, OKWAY EVERYONEWAY....IDEHAY!!

Jane

Hey does anyone know where I can find a link to that letter Schumer wrote to Fitz during the Libby investigation? Thanks

sbw

Dang! Where is my secret decoder ring.

cboldt

To Fitz? or to Comey?

Jane

Cboldt,

Was there one to Fitz or is the only one to Comey?

Thanks BTW

Sue

So long suckers!

Another empty promise.

Other Tom

Sounds to me like poor Pete got in over his head with his mortgage. (Guess he needed some regulators to keep him from doing something dumb.) Not me--I've prospered hugely in real estate during the Bush years. Life's tough, Pete, but it's a lot tougher if you're stupid.

hit and run

Wednesday is going to be fun fun fun!

jerry

"Oh good heavens, Jerry. ... That theory is just silly."

I think it's a good theory Maybee, plenty of leads to follow up and great intrigue! Libby did meet at least once with Rich a week before Bob, we don't know Woodward's schedule.

When Woodward and Armitage say "everyone knows" and "why does that have to be a big secret?" I'd bet that group of 'everyone' would include Cheney, Libby, Bushie, and Rover.

Though I can't do any actual David Broder type reporting, I'll work on refining the speculation. :) Maybe the Congress, or Plame, or Tenet will give an assist.

Tom Maguire

I seem to recall Novak telling us not to attach any significance to his use of the term "operative"--he was pretty adamant that the term was not intended to connote anything about her job description; he said it was his own word, and he used it in the sense that he uses it in "political operative."

Yes, but... the critics insisted that Karl Rove himself told Novak that Ms. Plame was a CIA double0secret spy by using the word 'operative'.

So as coincidences go, the idea that Mitchell and Novak both got 'operative' from Harlow is satisfying.

Lew Clark

I retired form everything in 2003, including my high ranking position in the Great Right-wing Conspiracy. But, I do have a lot of time on my hands now, so I'm up for making sandwiches, IED's, and cleaning and oiling rocket launchers for the active conspirators. Just email me the address of the staging area.

Tom Maguire

P.S> Didn't she call Libby on or after July 8 in the very period when the town was abuzz..

Apparently he was meant to chat with her about the NIE, per Ms. Martin's testimony.

And Harlow is now with NBC? Too funny.

You gotta save Mitchell's credibility from last night. Someone capable of making such an inexplicably harebrained statement about the polling on Libby's pardon is capable of saying, well, just about anything on television.

Oh, I see right through her pathetic attempt to disqualify herself as a witness by feigning insanity; I am surprised you don't.

And does this mean you don't like my theory that she swallowed a random word generator?

Somewhat more seriously, didn't she say something utterly daft about this case a while back (boy, does *that* seem like a safe bet!) I feel like we had this "How can you take seriously anything she says after that outrage" discussion once before.

Oh, well - she was right about the lost INR footnote, right about the impending CIA referral, got the preview of the Tenet statement with Wilson being sent by CIA operatives - win some, lose some.

Anyway, my belief that she may have received a leak hardly rests exclusively on her having said so - no one disputes that she was working the story hard and talking to all the people who might have leaked.

That proves nothing (Pincus claims not to have gotten a leak until July 12) except that she should have been questioned under oath, which is still what I want.

danking70

Next up, the defense will plead for a mistrial. Will this be in front of Walton?

If so, can the defense use juror post-verdict statements to show how the jury disregarded Walton's order to leave Plame out of their deliberations.

Were there any denial of certain defense motions that would have also helped push the jury into disregarding Walton's orders.

cboldt

-- Was there one to Fitz ... --

Not that I know of, but I haven't looked for exactly that. I'd seen Schumer's letter to Comey in a clarice post, and on speculation thought you might have been looking for a link to that letter.

-- ... or is the only one to Comey? --

Schumer wrote quite a few letters regarding the leak and the subsequent investigation(s), not all of the them to Comey, and more than one to Comey (that last link is a pdf).

danking70

Harlow now works for NBC. Really?

Still why wasn't he called as a witness and his phone log dug up.

Oh yeah, this wasn't a trial about the Plame outting. The only problem is that someone forget to tell the jury. Oh wait, the judge did tell the jury on numerous occaisions.

Madness!!

Walter

The etymology of the surname "Shuster" and "Schuster" are the same. Both stem from the trade of shoe making in the (Frankish) Central Europe.

The split in spelling seems to have occurred sometime in the late Middle Ages. My impression is that "Shuster" is more common in the Western region of what I'll call for lack of a better term, greater Germany. "Schuster" is the spelling preferred in the Eastern portion of the region, including Bavaria, Austria, and the german-speaking parts of Czechoslovakia and Poland. The exact boundaries are necessarily imprecise, as some 1,700 countries, kingdoms, bishoprics and abbeys existed as independent polities in the area as late as 1750 AD.

The geographical divide correlates somewhat with religious persuasion, with westerners tending towards Protestantism in general and Lutheranism in particular. Eastern regions tended to be more Roman Catholic or Jewish. Thus Lincoln Schuster was an Austrian Jewish immigrant who cofounded Simon and Schuster, and Jules Schuster was a Bavarian Catholic immigrant great-great-grandfather of mine.

hit and run

OK, I may have a sillier question some day, but this will do for now - is the MSNBC reporter David Shuster or Schuster?

Well, the name thing is silly.

It's David Shyster.

Shuster/Schuster is a stage name obviously.

Walter

Ah, Hit and Run, it seems that my ego may need to take a bit of a hit.

I flew from STL to Oklahoma City on Monday to pick up my father-in-law. (He had totaled his car there, after driving 36 hours non-stop from SF. He's ok though, thanks to the over-engineered safety features of his (former) Lexus.)

I was not selected for super-special security screening. The nice-looking ladies in front and behind me were selected instead.

So, either I'm no longer in extraordinary physical shape, or a last-minute one-way trip to OKC is less of a security risk than one to Detroit.

Oh, what was I thinking? Of course it reflects the relative prevalence of terrorist incidents in the two cities over the past ten years.

Nevermind.

sylvia

" My impression is that "Shuster" is more common in the Western region of what I'll call for lack of a better term, greater Germany."

That's news to me. Germans spell the "Sh" sound with "Sch" as far as I know. 6 years of German class can't be wrong, although I really didn't pay attention much. Perhaps you are thinking about American Germans, and their names being Anglicized when they got here. Germans from the more westerly parts of Europe probably came here first, when less people read well, and so misspelled their names more.

Walter

"Lawyer types are the penalties for post GJ service or are they free to discuss what went on after being released?"

The grand jurors, like the prosecutor and court personnel, must continue to remain silent about grand jury proceedings even after the grand jury's term concludes. This requirement is enforced by the judge (Hogan in the Libby case) through the contempt process.

A lawyer in the Barry Bonds case just accepted a 2-year prison term for violating grand jury secrecy by releasing some transcripts to the San Francisco Chronicle.

And I refuse to be typecast. I am an individual, dammit!

sylvia

"except that she should have been questioned under oath, which is still what I want"

Yeah, why wasn't she again?

Walter

I could well be wrong, Sylvia. It happens all too frequently.

FWIW, I've seen spellings from Schuster, Shuster, or Suszter, to Šuster, some with umlauts over the "u". And that doesn't even include those elitist purists the "Shumachers", who are just too friendly with the English "Shoemakers", if you ask me.

sylvia

Here are some excerpts from the testimony from the links above for people like me who didn't remember it.

M Going to VP to give an update, it was an unscheduled visit, talked to VP and Scooter, I wasn't getting any calls directly, Mitchell and Martin doing pieces for Evening News. Discussed with them should we try to talk to them and make sure they don't repeat the things we think are false. Should we make sure we're part of the story. General consensus was "yes" and Scooter would call them back. And Libby would call them back. VP made the decision to have Scooter call them back. Went into VP ante-office, Scooter has a little office there. Scooter called one of the reporters, I was there for the portion of one of the calls. I believe this was July 8. I left, I had a lot of phone calls I still needed to return. I was still not certain about NIE and was a little uncomfortable talking about the NIE and I was aggravated that Scooter that I was calling reporters and I wasn't....

Calling Harlow to find out who was continuing to call on this story. BC story continuing to be written, we OVP still in as having sent him or traveling at behest of. Press stopped calling our office, this became truth, I think I called NSC first and then called Harlow, I can't specifically connect all this. Harlow was a little less friendly told me who was calling him, Mitchell and David Martin were working on story. Week of July 7.


sylvia

Okay, questions from above- did we ever find out what Harlow told Mitchel when she called to ask about the "story"? What reporter did Libby call on the 8th? Wasn't that Miller, not Mitchel? Did Mitchell talk to Libby on the 8th and if so what was said? Is there some way to prove the Novak story hit the wires so that Russert or anyone he worked with would have had access to it before he spoke to Libby? And why wasn't all of this investigated before the trial? Kind of late now isn't it.

Barney Frank


Posted by: pete | March 13, 2007 at 10:23 PM

--bgates

Your ignorant.--

Absolutely priceless.

SunnyDay

Sylvia, no one knows exactly who or what Fitzgerald investigated if he didn't say.

If Fitz didn't call a witness during the trial, and that person refused to be interviewed by Wells andCo, then whatever that person knows goes by the way.

Wells would have to put them on the stand to question them, and he would not do that, if he didn't know beforehand what they were going to say.

IANAL, but these are kinda trial-watching basics for the general public.

SunnyDay

Absolutely priceless.

HAHAHAHAHA!!

Imust B Crazy

all Shumer's trying to do is intimidate DOJ and keep them from closing down Fitz's "inactive" investigation and make them think twice about moving forward on dems currently under investigation. If the WH/AG were really out to dump prosecutors for political reasons alone wouldn't Fitz have been first???

cathyf
So as coincidences go, the idea that Mitchell and Novak both got 'operative' from Harlow is satisfying.
Actually, I find it more plausible that they both got it from Armitage. It's sort of a disparaging term, and seems to fit Armitage's foul-mouthed disparaging of all things CIA.
topsecretk9

If the WH/AG were really out to dump prosecutors for political reasons alone wouldn't Fitz have been first???

The Pete's and the Anon's have repeatedly stated if Bush is unhappy he should fire Fitzgerald.

But then we've always known lefties are unprincipled and never, ever mean what they say.

Jeff

That proves nothing (Pincus claims not to have gotten a leak until July 12) except that she should have been questioned under oath, which is still what I want.

But would anything less than a full confession that she plotted with Russert, Armitage, the Wilsons, David Gregory and the French to get Libby satisfy you? Remember, after Mitchell's lawyer stated as an officer of the court that Mitchell would testify she didn't know about Plame, the defense turned down the opportunity offered by the judge to question her under oath. Pincus himself testified that he didn't know about Plame until July 12. He doesn't just "claim" it anymore. Does that satisfy you, or not? The point, of course, being that if it doesn't, then your call for Mitchell to testify is basically pointless, and it's unclear what could possibly convince you that she didn't know about Plame before Novak's column.

sylvia

"If Fitz didn't call a witness during the trial, and that person refused to be interviewed by Wells andCo, then whatever that person knows goes by the way."

I guess that's true SunnyDay. The defense has no power to force an interview, does it, unless they call them to the stand. Their power of investigation is limited as well if the NBC crew hangs tough. Well if you ask me, Wells should have risked it and called Gregory and Mitchell to the stand. He should just have asked each one question - Gregory did Fleischer tell you, and Mitchell, what did you mean when you said everyone knew, and then let the jury watch them squirm. It couldn't have been worse.

Okay I just remembered, Mitchel did testify but the jury could only read her transcript. Where are the excerpts from her testimony? Did the jury get to read it? Okay I have to look that up because I don't remember that part.

I wonder if Libby can bring this element up at appeal - that his defense was under unusual contraints because of the nature of the witnesses being the media, in addition to just Mitchel. Fitz may have had some ability to investigate, but Libby had even less ability to investigate in his defense, and limited ability to call witnesses to the stand for his defense.

sylvia

And Walter, if I remember correctly, schusse means skiing. So schusster could mean someone who skis, as well as it could have something to do with Schuhe, shoes. Wow my german is rusty. What a waste right? I don't know why they didn't all force us to take Spanish instead.

Patton

Jeff ""she didn't know about Plame before Novak's column.""

Which was distributed at Noon on the 11th.....

Jeff solved the mystery? Mitchell knew as of Noon on the 11th!

And noone had to lie......


Has it struck anyone as odd that these SO CALLED NEWS JOURNALISTS still read the paper thrown on their door step??

They don't get news first on-line? noone e-mails them, they have no feeds to their computer plugged into the NBC news infratructure. It seems quite odd that Russert relies on the newspaper shwoing up afternoon on Monday to kow what's going on in the world.

I can't remember the last time I picked up a hardcopy paper.

sylvia

"They don't get news first on-line? noone e-mails them, they have no feeds to their computer plugged into the NBC news infratructure"

Yeah, why didn't Wells and Co. investigate this? That part, about how news is distributed, and how NBC staff got it, shouldn't have been SO hard to pin down.

hit and run

...a full confession that she [Mitchell] plotted with Russert, Armitage, the Wilsons, David Gregory and the French to get Libby satisfy you?


Unrelated, but I think this represents a good summary of what would have been necessary for Mr. Collins to have found Libby not guilty.

Sara (Squiggler)

Yeah, why didn't Wells and Co. investigate this?

I know it is hard for those of here to believe and I'm constantly amazed at how computer illiterate most attorneys are. I've been trying to correspond with several attorneys in the past six years and it is a nightmare. Either snail mail letters or in a pinch, a fax. The secretary at my attorney's office finally gave me her personal AOL email address in order to get something to their office in an emergency. I went thru a similar situation a couple of years ago during the long four years of negotiations during my divorce.

I don't know why attorney offices are so hopelessly antiquated when it comes to technology, but since the year 2000, I've run into it several times.

Neo

an advance that could allow automakers to convert small engines designed for economy cars into muscular engines with more than enough power for SUVs or sports cars ?

sylvia

"and I'm constantly amazed at how computer illiterate most attorneys are"

Not only that but most lawyers don't know what the heck they are talking about. They only know their little specialty area, if even that. I had some small civil matters I wanted to pursue, and tried to approach a few lawyers to get their advice. I had to pay a lot of money for a little bit of research that wasn't that good. I finally found it's a lot cheaper and better to just go to the library and look up the darn laws yourself. Same thing with a lot of doctors. This "expert" idea is vastly overrated and a lot of it is bluff, not substance, and you often pay a lot, for a lot less than you think.

sylvia

"I don't know why attorney offices are so hopelessly antiquated when it comes to technology"

I've actually spoken with some lawyers about this. Many lawyers, especially the small, one or two person firms, are just not as wealthy as people think. They just don't want to spend the money on the programs that are available for them. Any program or hardware they get is too big a commitment for them as they are scared of spending the money to maintain it. They are also scared of any security lapses or data loss. So they just stick to the old ways of pen and paper.

danking70

why didn't Wells and Co. investigate this

The defense started and then stopped. They were the first to bring to our attention that Newsrooms had Novaks article on Friday (11th) instead of what we all thought (Monday) completely shaking up the timeline. But then, the defense stopped questioning that topic.

clarice feldman

I can assure you We;;s' office is not hopelessly antiquated. They just could not find proof that Russert saw it on July 11 .

Sara (Squiggler)

Per some of our previous discussions, new study on the Yellowstone caldera:

Yellowstone Supervolcano Making Strange Rumblings

sylvia

"But then, the defense stopped questioning that topic."

You don't need to prove it. Get Russert and/or his assistant on the stand. This is how it would go:

Ask them if they ever got their news in advance of the public (yes). Ask them if they ever get their news from the wire (yes). Ask him if he knew that Novak's story about Plame hit the wires on the 10th, before he spoke to Libby (no). Ask them if their colleagues who saw stories hit the wires or who got advance news would ever fill them in on it (yes). Ask them if one knows, then that usually means they all know (yes). Ask Russert if he knew Gregory was on the plane with Fleischer (yes). Ask him if was aware that Fleischer testified that he told Gregory about Plame on the 8th(?) (No.) Ask him if he was aware that Mitchell spoke to CIA operative Harlow about Wilson in the week before Russert spoke to Libby (No.) Ask Russert if he was aware that Mitchell said on national TV that everyone in the media knew about Plame early on (yes). Ask Russert again if he, Gregory, and Mitchell worked closely together and shared news information.(yes). Ask Russert if he remembered the Buffalo news affair in which he later retracted a public denial of a conversation he had with the media (yes). Ask Russert if he ever misstated conversations he had with the media (Yes.)

Witness dismissed your honor.

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Wilson/Plame