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March 06, 2007

Comments

Sara (Squiggler)

Jane: Yes you would like him better. He was great. Most intelligent comments I've seen so far.

topsecretk9

Libby lawyers made a mistake not calling the 5 witnesses that knew Plame was a super secret CIA agent. They should have called them as a sidenote.

I certainly hope the 5 come out and say loudly what they knew --what the low level big-mouth said about his wife.

roanoke

capitano

Thanks-dang I didn't know you could do that. I just looked at the images of the pages.

It's scary how that passage fits.

davandbar

Barney:

I am not sure if English is pete's first language.

PERHAPS HE WAS THE AUTHOR OF SOME OF THOSE JURY NOTES!!!

Other Tom

"Joe and Val will have their crack at Libby in the civil case." Sorry, Pete, but it ain't gonna happen. For some enjoyable light reading, check out the briefs in support of the defendants' pending motions to dismiss. The motions will be heard by Judge Bates in May. He will grant them, and the civil case will be over.

Which is too bad, because it means Joe Wilson will never face cross-examination under oath. But Fitzmas has come and Fitzmas has gone, and you fell about 21 indictments shy of your once-soaring hopes. Karl Rove is a free man. Dick Cheney is a free man. They have been cleared by this prosecutor after a thorough, three-year investigation. It's all over. Live with it.

And keep in mind the commander-in-chief will be at his post for the next 22 months. That's the way it's going to be, until President Giuliani succeeds him.

michael scanlon

Here’s a question: Will team JOM be covering the trial of fraudster Conrad Black, when his trial comes up in Chicago later this year? Can we look forward to the same blind disparagement of prosecutor Pat Fitzgerald as he brings the sword of justice down on the head of Richard Perle’s close and very dear friend? . . . I wonder what poor Conrad Black is thinking tonight.

Christopher Fotos

Yes, roanoke, like capitano said. Many books are searchable on Amazon.com and this one fortunately is one of them (someone has already posted in "reviews" about the author's role in the case). In my case I searched for "covert" and came up with what capitano found, so I looked at the table of contents, saw the chapter titled Caught! (that's Collins's exclamation point, I'm not being excitable) and plugged in "caught" to get me there. Found that entry on the first page of the chapter.

Sara (Squiggler)

Oh cripes, the airport screeners aren' incompetent enough already? Now Congress votes to allow them to unionize. Let's reduce the standards to the lowest common denominator!

Enlightened

PERHAPS HE WAS THE AUTHOR OF SOME OF THOSE JURY NOTES!!!


Well, yeah I guess if they were in crayon.

centralcal

Jane: He (Bois) was excellent tonight on H & C, and I have seen him as a commentator before and felt the same way. He basically said this was a political trial that should have never taken place. Yes, he did try to include Clinton's problems as similar, but not really with any enthusiasm. He hit all the right notes about this case, however.

roanoke

Christopher-

Geez and I thought I was so good that I would rename myself the "ferret".

Hey I knew the square footage of....

Nevermind!

Art Curator.

Damn.

BarbaraS

So, now we know per Fitzgerald's words that this investigation was never about outing a covert agent. He hounded Miller and Cooper to get Libby. And some people think that there was not a vendetta against Libby? But then again another reason was to see if Libby would testify against Cheneyfor some unknown crime. The left media was trying to go down the same old route of getting rid of a vice president they did not want before they impeached the president.

I wish Cheney would step down due to health reasons and Bush would appoint Guilani as vice president. This would mean Guilani would go into the 2008 elections as a sitting vice president. That would be the left's almost worse nightmare. The worse nightmare would be Cheney himself running for the presidency.

Christopher Fotos

Oh Lord. Byron York:

Libby juror Denis Collins on CNN's Larry King Live:

Q: Are you going to write about this?

A: I am going to write about it. I'm not sure of the format or where it will be…

topsecretk9

So, are the democrats in congress right now busy trying to figure out how to kill of this whole bizarre "special prosecutor" idea...can you imagine a Fitzgerald - answer to no one Attorney General - like appointment for Hillary? She's already got some problems with a fundraising Peter Paul appeal.

clarice

I've been out. But I notice someone did catch that Collins had said that he'd worked w/ Woodward. The article cited said he worked next door to Russert. He revealed that, too, in voir dire.


Christopher Fotos

Geez and I thought I was so good that I would rename myself the "ferret".

That's what we were calling you anyway, but privately--we couldn't figure out if you'd be insulted.

maryrose

centralcal:
Glad to hear from someone who sees this case for what it was all along. I will have to watch the repeat of H&C at midnight here. I will pray that future justice will prevail for Libby and his family. One Cooper count was guilty, I don't get that. Russert on TV looked as bad as I've ever seen him. Someone must have chewed him out about this whole catastrophe.

Pofarmer

Uhm

Do any of these Bush Hitler idiot understand that if Bush really was a fascist we wouldn't have had this trial, and they wouldn't be complaining?

Just askin.

maryrose

Barbara:
Totally agree! You have captured the essence of a thought I had on a previous thread about Cheney retiring because of health. Bring on Guiliani-the one to beat Hil or Obama.

capitano

roanoke --

Consider it a collaborative effort; your post prompted me to run the search. It's the results that count.

Other Tom

I enjoy reading Cheney's moving papers so much that I thought I'd post an adress where interested readers can check out the brief for themselves. Hard to say what is my favorite part, but I take particular delight in the fact that the taxpayers will be picking up the costs of the defense. Happy to chip in and do my part come April 15.

http://members.cox.net/liinda/Plame_cheneyMTDismiss.htm

MikeS

It occurs to me that Collins will sell more spy novels as a result of being on this jury.
As opposed to say books on sports.

roanoke

capitano

Thank you.

MikeS

***if his books***

capitano

roanoke --

I guess stated another way, I already knew to search Amazon, but I remembered it again after reading your post.

Pofarmer

So, are the democrats in congress right now busy trying to figure out how to kill of this whole bizarre "special prosecutor" idea..

Nope, they are ready to ramp it up. One for Walter Reid, one for the fired prosecutors. One for in the wings, just in case.

Syl

roanoke

Syl-

OK let's up it a notch.

No, let's not. You're acting as if I WANTED this guy on the jury. That's not what I said. Sometimes jury selection sucks. But you make the case to the jury you've got, not the jury you want. And for the most part, you have no idea what will happen until it's over.

clarice

I wrote something for AT for tomorrow and I'm working on something else w/ Sweetness & Light's Steve Gilbert right now.

So, I've been hopping since I got home.

But since Fitz says his investigation is "inactive" and this case is over..when will Gonzales yank the chain--or will he be special counsel in perpetuity--free to go after anyone he chooses for responding to lying critics?

hit and run

Did anyone see him on H & C tonite?

You know who'd I'd like to see...

Jeralyn on H &...uh...C yeah, on H & C.

roanoke

Syl-

You're acting as if I WANTED this guy on the jury.

Please don't take it personally. I'm sorry if I offended you.

I am not acting as if you wanted him on the jury-I didn't think that at all.

Pofarmer

Can anybody come up with a link to Wilson's comments tonight?

Ralph L.

FACIST DEGENERATES

That would be Mr. FaScist Degenerate to you, Pete.
Kindly spell your insults correctly, asshole.

Sara (Squiggler)


Nets Frame Libby Verdict Around Vile Scheming, Never Mention Armitage, Tie in Reagan

jerry

"I think that, for the Left, Fitzmas morning occurred earlier today, and now the bleakness of Fitzmas afternoon is setting in: it's all over, and this is all they got."

Au contraire, I'm looking forward to the civil trial, further investigations by the press and Congress, and a return of hizzoner the Fitz if "further information" is revealed.

centralcal

maryrose:
"Russert on TV looked as bad as I've ever seen him. Someone must have chewed him out about this whole catastrophe."

I sincerely doubt anyone has chewed him out, maryrose. But, I would hope - good Catholic boy that he is and all - that maybe his conscience is chewing him up from the inside out. And, I hope that is happening to Andrea Mitchell also, as well it should.

Someone, was it Jane or Syl, in prior days asked what we were going to do about the media in this country. Well, I for one have only rarely watched Timmy, never could stand him. I don't watch Olberman, or blondie slobberpuss, or much of anything on MSNBC. I no longer tune in to CNN. I could go on, but my point is that watching them means money in their pocket via ratings and advertisers. We have so few powers any more as citizens, but in this each and every one of us has enormous power. No watch-ee, no mon-ee, no show-ee. Same with the newspapers - no circulation - no paper.

More than half (by 3 million) of the voters in this country elected GW for a second term. That's a lot of eyeballs, the loss of which would spell disaster for a lot of the biased, agenda driven media. Isn't it time we all did our share to help that along?

topsecretk9

When is the opinion unsealed?

roanoke

Syl-

Also this-

OK let's up it a notch.

Was not directed to you-I meant to further the comparison. To increase the comparison.

Sara (Squiggler)

Clarice --how does Gonzales pull the chain if Fitzgerald has the full powers of the attorney general per Comey's appointment?

Alcibiades

Yeah, I saw David Boies as well - he was terrific; Colmes, otoh, had no clue what the case was about. He was trying to claim that when Fitz claimed that someone had leaked Plame's name before Armitage had to Novak, that that was Libby. Had no clue that it was Woodward; and didn't understand the point when Novak made it to him point blank.

Ralph L.

"I hope that is happening to Andrea Mitchell also"

I would like to see her turn into a good Catholic boy, too.

topsecretk9
Libby Literature [Byron York] Libby juror Denis Collins on CNN's Larry King Live:

Q: Are you going to write about this?

A: I am going to write about it. I'm not sure of the format or where it will be…


03/06 09:31 PM

Sue

I think the defense knew of his connection to Woodward and probably knew of his connection to Russert since it was also listed on as information on a link describing the jurors. What I'm unsure of is did he reveal he was an author of a book that dealt with covert operatives? And one that was published in October 2004. That is my only question, so far anyway, with regards to Denis Collins. If he didn't reveal that information during voir dire, it could be a possible reason for a new trial. Just sayin'.

Not that I think a new trial would do any good.

Alcibiades

how does Gonzales pull the chain if Fitzgerald has the full powers of the attorney general per Comey's appointment?

Well, Bush can if Gonzales won't; in any case, Fitz is off to convict his next neocon next month; so he probably doesn't want to stick around any longer.

Syl

centralcal

Did anyone see him [David Boies] on H & C tonite?

::waving::

says Boies:

---------

Fitz knew who the leaker was and there was no reason to impanel a grand jury.

Libby's testimony was meaningless for fitz determination as to whether a crime had been committed.

Libby made statements that were false in front of a GJ. Whether they were lies, errors, or memory failures didn't matter. In any case it was inevitable that he would be convicted because it's almost impossible to convince a jury that saying something false to a GJ is not an intentional lie.

Fitz should have shut this thing down.

---------

JM Hanes

Clarice:

When it comes to things which, in Fitzzpeak, strain credulity, I nominate his post-verdict comment that his investigation is "inactive," as opposed to, say, over. Absolutely emblematic. His laughable disinformation on Plame, of course, was also all too familiar: "There's no doubt that her relationship with the CIA was classified. And that's just a fact." It would be interesting to pinpoint when, precisely, he came up with that spectacularly disingenous phrasing.

centralcal

Ralph L.: LOL (about Andrea turning into a good Catholic boy!)

clarice

The appontment was for this issue--he says this issue is over. Gonzales could have always fired him,except for political considerations. Now, it's time to revoke the appointment, Fitz having asserted he's completed this task.

Syl

Jane

I don't adore him (Bois) I think he is drastically over-rated.

I had a crush on him for a while :)

centralcal

Thanks Syl! I knew that there was an "e" in his name somewhere (BoiEs), but for the life of me I couldn't figure out where to put it! ha!

He sure didn't give Alan Colmes anywhere to run with his disinformation, now did he?

clarice

JMH Steve and I are working on this though maybe not the absurd "classified" bit--he also made a flat out lie in his presser though in his usually cnvoluted Fitzspeak. Steve's making a transcript of it at this very moment.

hit and run

OK, but important question regarding Denis Collins.

Having learned his name by reading it, and with it apparently having one less "n" than the conventional spelling -- I am wondering if it is pronounced Den-EE

Kinda like Plam-ay

centralcal

Oh Syl - dang it, I kinda did too (have a crush on him). But - I got over it. I think he has integrity and it showed tonight.

Syl

roanoka

You're acting as if I WANTED this guy on the jury.

Please don't take it personally. I'm sorry if I offended you.

No I'm not offended. But your first question was 'if I were such and such would I want so and so on the jury'. So that's what the arguments sounded like to me. That's all.

I KNOW you don't think I really WANTED him, you were just arguing in those terms, THAT's what I was objecting to. I didn't express that well. Sorry.

jerry

As a periodically-resident lefty wingnut I can't see abu-G "pulling the plug" on Fitz, there's a small bit of a conflict there... wasn't something similar a prelude to the downfall of Richie Nixon?

Pat

Another thought:

The MSM loses, too

Maybe they'll have to start doing some real reporting

Bill Bennet, writing at the NRO Corner writes:

This case will have a backlash the press will regret: sources will be less likely to speak with them, not because the press was called to testify but because senior government officials will be expected to remember every jot and tittle of what they say to each member of the press in their background, off-the-record, and investigative interviews.

MSM reporters should also remember that Judith Miller spent 85 days in jail for not revealing sources.

So the MSM faces a double-whammy.

1. Secret sources won't talk so freely (I'd recommend that administration sources have a lawyer and/or a tape recorder present in any off-the record discussion with a MSM reporter).

2. Reporters can do serious jail time if they don't reveal their secret sources.

Is this what the MSM wanted when it started the Plame Blame Game?

centralcal

H&R: Den-ee! Damn, we sure missed you over the weekend! You always make me laugh out loud, staring at my computer monitor like some demented person.

JM Hanes

Clarice:

I'll be interested to hear the rest of what he said. I've only seen a split second video clip. Naturally, I was off doing something else when the verdict came in!

Syl

roanoke

Was not directed to you-I meant to further the comparison. To increase the comparison.

Please don't take what I said personally. My answer to the first question expressed the ultimate futility of who one would want or not on the jury. So to me there was no further point in giving examples of someone one might not want on a jury.

Sigh.

It's been a cruddy day, hasn't it?

Dave in W-S

H&R,

Nope, pronounced just like the English spelling, except this is the Irish spelling. And Collins is another grand old Irish name, now isn't it?

roanoke

Syl-

No worries. Dang to tell you the truth a long time ago I read something you wrote at yargb-about a dream you had about the President walking alone-

And cripes it struck me as so profound that I've actually tried searching for it.

So I am aghast that I might have offended you.

Appalled at myself.

*ugh* do you remember that comment that you wrote?

Really it was -anyways I'm off.

I love the President and this stuff gets extremely hard for me.

Syl

Pat

Bill Bennett forgot another reason sources will hesitate to talk to a reporter....

Reporters will testify to the FBI about you and pretend they didn't.

centralcal

"Reporters will testify to the FBI about you and pretend they didn't."

Oh yeah, they will! That alone should dry up quite a few "sources" for Mr. Russert.

hit and run

It's been a cruddy day, hasn't it?


Yes

hit and run

Oh, and the Libby thing was bad too.

clarice

JMH:

First question:

Sir, there's been a lot of criticism for the last couple of months that Rich Armitage has come forward and said he was the first leaker. And that you knew that from the beginning. Do you think this now justifies your investigation? And what do you have to say to those critics?

Mr. Fitzgerald:

I would say this. It's not the verdict that justifies the investigation. It's the facts. And if people would step back and look at what happened here. When the investigation began in the fall of 2003, and then we got appointed to the special counsel at the end of December 2003. What is now clear is what we knew at that time. By that point in time we knew Mr. Libby had told a story. That what he had told reporters has come not from other government officials, but from reporter Tim Russert.

It's also now public that by that point in time the FBI had learned that in fact Tim Russert did not tell Mr. Libby that information. In fact, Tim Russert didn't know it, and Tim Russert could not have told him. And for us, as investigators and prosecutor to take a case where a high level official is telling a story, that the basis of his information wasn't from government officials but came from a reporter -- the reporter had told us that was not true -- other officials told us that the information came from them -- we could not walk away from that.

windansea

Be advised, we got zips in the wire down here.

Roger your last, Bravo Six. Can't run it any closer.

We're hot to trot and packing snake and nape, but we're bingo on fuel.

For the record, it's my call! Dump everything you've got left on my pos!

I say again, expend all remaining in my perimeter!

It's a lovely fucking war.

Christopher Fotos

JMH: At the moment, C-Span has the Fitzgerald presser on its home page. I can't link to it directly. The server was a little balky getting it started, but that happens at C-Span sometimes.

I'm surprised no one has posted it at YouTube.

hit and run

centralcal - thx. I missed being here.

Dave in W-S. OK. Though if testifying in a court of law, I'm saying Den-EE. It worked for Ari.

MayBee

I'm looking for a transcript of Fitzgerald's statement today.

It was 2:30 am when I was watching, but I remember him saying he knew it was a process crime from the time he took the case.

So how can he put Libby in front of the grand jury, ask him questions from the original investigation (by then deemed to have been completed) and call it obstruction?

If Fitzgerald knew the investigation into leaking was over, shouldn't all the obstruction charges be based only on statements to investigators?

Deagle

Any bets on Boies (?) being on CNN or MSNBC within the next week?

Terrye

One thing that is interesting is that we keep hearing how nefarious the Bushitler cabal is and all that..but here we have an administration official convicted of a crime, largely on the word of the press.

In spite of the fact that we are told everyday that the press is shut out by the administration and Bush is destroying the country and taking away our rights blah blah blah.

But unless this is dismissed or Libby is pardoned, Libby will go to jail, Val and her liar husband will have a movie made about them and the reporters involved will not end up in a gulag.

Fancy that for a fascist dictator in a country in which dissent has been silenced.

Kind of makes a lot of the opposition propaganda look like propaganda.

MarkO

Libby could have used Boies.

Pofarmer

Shit Maybee.

How can he not bring Russerts coworkers in and see what they know? How can he not interview those that Fleischer and Armitage talked to. How does he not know about Woodward?

Answer? Fitz wasn't interested in the truth, and knew the Defense couldn't compel those individuals to talk.

lacqui

Hey y'all - longtime lurker here. I've been obsessively hitting refresh on JOM threads for about four months now (intensely so in the last three weeks) but haven't had the nerve to comment. I just wanted to thank you all (and especially our host) for your tremendous coverage and analysis of this case. It wasn't the verdict I'd hoped for, but reading it about it here softens the disappointment considerably. Cheers and viva Scooter!

clarice

Thanks.
Does anyone remember the date of the FBI interviews of Russert?

Syl

roanoke

I don't remember, but then I haven't the foggiest idea what I've posted at YARGB at all. I remember a post on Judy, a post on NSA thing, and a conversation I made up between bin laden and zawahiri. Anything else and I'm blank.

Oh, could it have been Terrye?

centralcal

"Libby could have used Boies."

MarkO, I thought the same thing tonight watching him on H & C.

Pofarmer

The after trial interviews are up on Hotair.com.


After listening to this juror, it's pretty clear they took Fitzgeralds version of events to heart. "He heard it 9 times." Well, not exactly. Oh well.

MikeS

Oct 14 and Nov 26 FBI interviews

BarbaraS

Maryrose

Can you imagine Guilani as president of the senate?

MayBee

MIkeS- aren't those Libby's interview dates.

MikeS

Yes beg pardon

Syl

fitzgerald says:

we could not walk away from that.

SURE YOU COULD. It had NOTHING to do with whether a crime had been committed in releasing info concerning VAL to the public (via Armitage to Novak).

You ALREADY knew the information came from official sources--a State Dept. memo.

EXCUSES EXCUSES Libby was immaterial to your investigation.

David Scherrey

From voir dire: Picking the jury
But then came Juror No. 1869 Denis Collins. a juror in the perjury trial of former White House aide I. Lewis 'Scooter' Libby. Where other jurors said they didn't read the newspaper, this middle-aged man said he read it cover to cover every day. He not only knew journalists, he had been one for much of his professional career. In fact, Bob Woodward had been his editor at the Washington Post. He also knew Post reporter Walter Pincus, another name on the list. Oh, and Tim Russert? They used to be neighbors. His son played basketball with Tim's son in the alley between their houses. He had gone to grade school with Maureen Dowd.

MayBee

I've got Nov 14 in my head....I'm trying to find it. I thought on Imus he actually said he spoke with the FBI twice.

topsecretk9

Larwyn emailed me this (along with about 40 blog posts and storys too)

Just on Brit - Juror Collins is RUSSERT's NEIGHBOR, as former WaPo Reporter how much do you want to bet they know each other???

Has this been mentioned?

hit and run

I got Nov 14 from MaineWebReport's not a transcript of Russert cross...

MayBee

Yes, the fact that they were neighbors came out in voir dire. I think he said he'd attended a bbq at Russert's.

Pofarmer

He had gone to grade school with Maureen Dowd.

Now you're making me feel sorry for the guy.

topsecretk9

Oh, David just did.

clarice

Thanks. Maybee and H & R.I remember he thought there were 2 and they were in Nov. 2003.

Michael H

I wish -

Washington, DC MAR 8,2007

Tony Snow, White House press secretary:

As you know, there have been recent tragic events in the life of former VP chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby. The president has directed a letter to the Director of the Arlington National Cemetery that, if it is his wish, Mr. Libby may, in the passage of time, be buried with honors at Arlington National Cemetery. The president views Mr. Libby as a casualty of the war on terror and, as with all the casualties of this war, regrets the occurence of the tragedy associated with his service.

Sue

but haven't had the nerve to comment

Are we that scary? ::grin:: Jump in anytime, the water is warm and we are mostly a friendly bunch of people. Just don't say anything about Clarice's typos. And bring your own beer because H&R won't share.

MayBee

Answer? Fitz wasn't interested in the truth, and knew the Defense couldn't compel those individuals to talk.

I know, Pofarmer, I know.
I hate political investigations. Nobody treated Kenn Starr reverentially- I just am wishing that Fitzgerald would get a little of that suspicious treatment.

Syl

Naturally, I was off doing something else when the verdict came in!

I was asleep. Missed the verdict. Missed the presser. Missed everything. And I don't have a soundcard so the videos are useless to me.

Syl

clarice

Russert was sometime in July 2204? 2005?

I just remember july.

Sara (Squiggler)

new thread

Sue

Maybee,

He will. He is a prosecutor and the left doesn't really like prosecutors. Or the CIA for that matter. Once he goes after someone they are sympathetic with, his shine will wear off. Especially since he isn't taking Cheney with him when he leaves town.

lacqui

Are we that scary?

No, not at all! I was just concerned I wouldn't have much to add. Thanks for the welcome.

Not to worry about beer, I live in the People's Republic of Austin. Plenty of Lone Star at the ready.

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Wilson/Plame