His Silence Was Thunderous

From Rep. Waxman's opening statement at his Plame show trial today:

I have been advised by the CIA that even now, after all that has happened, I cannot disclose the full nature, scope, and character of Ms. 'Wilson's service to our nation without causing serious damage to our national security interests.

But General Hayden and the CIA have cleared these following comments for today's hearing.

During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was under cover.

Her employment status with the CIA was classified information prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958.

At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert.

This was classified information.

First, I want a special counsel to indict Waxman for perjury - the relevant Executive Order is 13292, which amended and supplanted 12958 in March 2003, and which was effective immediately (except for section 1.6, related to markings - what are the odds the violation to which he refers is there?  Groan.  I want a lawyer...).

But before we take Mr. Waxman away in chains, let's talk about his statement.  The magic words we are all listening for are "Ms. Plame had covert status under the law as defined by the Intelligence Identities Protection Act."  His failure to speak those words speaks volumes - I have no doubt he will gull the NY Times (Mission Accomplished - see below), but folks in the know will see this for the smokescreen it is.

Please - don't tell me that there would have been vast national security implications if he had said "CIA lawyers who have studied her file have assured me that Ms. Plame had covert status under the IIPA".  There would have been no national security implications to his saying it, it would have strengthened his presentation to say it, yet he did not say it - what reasonable conclusion might one draw?

Telling us that the CIA considered her to be covert as per their employment practices is smoke - the WaPo understood this point this morning (but the Times never will).

MORE:  Ms. Toensing's opening statement makes points that regular readers here will find familiar.  From the archives, my thoughts on Ms. Plame's gloomy tradecraft; and here are some quick thoughts on the history of the IIPA as it relates to "service abroad".

From the other side, let me thank an emailer and single out this Kos diarist, a lawyer whose entire contribution to the debate seems to have been the nicknaming of Ms. Toensing as "Toestink".  Beyond that contribution, the writer does not make a single point not made roughly two or three years ago.  Move On, please - say something new. 

And I'll even help - just for starters, tell me why I should give zero weight to this definiton of "service abroad":

 

D. Service abroad means service on or after September 6, 1960, by an employee at a post of duty outside the United States and outside the employee's place of residence if that place of residence is a territory or possession of the United States.

Obviously, this is nowhere near dispositive since it is not a CIA definition.  But who out there is certain that this definition stands alone in opposition to common practice throughout the US government? Who suspects that maybe this is a common definition that crops up in other agencies as well?  How might a judge rule in light of that, and in light of the history of the Act?  And who would care to do a bit of, hmm, legal research to attempt to pin that down?

Or we could pass the time dreaming up names like "Toestink"; no worries.  I'm sort of proud of "Special Clownshow Fitzgerald" myself, if that is the road we are going to walk.

Comments

[KevinNYC]

Jane, Novak used two administration officials as his source. He testified to this.

The first was Armitage and then got Rove to confirm it.

[lurker]

From Toensing testimony, page 6:

"In his own words, in an autobiography titled, "Politics of Truth", Joesph Wilson, husband of Plame, reveals the timing of her return from foreign assignment as June 1997, some SIX years prior to Noval's July 2003 column."

From Toensing testimony, page 8:

"No White House can prudently safeguard or otherwise non-disclosable intelligence information (such as covert status) unless its own intelligence agency follows the proper procedures to inform it and its Executive branch clients of that classification or status.

If Plame was really covert in July 2003 (or within five years of covert), the CIA was required under the statue to take "affirmative measures" to conceal her relationship to the USA, particularly the criminal law comes into play."

Then she followed with a list of questions, which point to slip-shod tradecraft, casting doubht on whether Plame's was even classified, much less covert.

(one of the questions was "The CIA allow Plame to contribute $1000.00 to Al Gore's campaign and list her CIA cover business, Brewster-Jennings & Associates, as her employer!!)

[lurker]

Ah...page 3 of the Toensing testimony says:

The person disclosing the identity knows that the information so identifies the covert agent.

Rove didn't know the information that Plame was supposedly covert.

Cheney didn't know the information that Plame was supposedly covert.

Libby didn't know the information that Plame was supposedly covert.

At the time of the disclosure, the covert agent whose identity was disclosed was serving outside the USA or had done so within five years of the disclosure, AND

The disclosure is intentional.

If there was any disclosure, it wasn't intentional.

She also said that in order to draft the law, she said that the law must include the definition of "covert agent", including the requirement of serving outside the country, and 2) the law's requirement that the government take "affirmative measures" to conceal the agent's intelligence relationship to the USA.

There should only be prosecution "when the defendant has knowingly disclosed information that, in terms of its specificity, its sensitivity, and the efforts expended to maintain its secrecy, is virtually the equivalent of classified information."

[sylvia]

"What matters is what her husband found, and what the President said"

Not if you're Libby facing 20 years in jail.

[ROA]

Should Waxman hold another hearing in the near future to determine if anyone thinks it is a bad idea to have covert agents driving their personal cars to CIA heaquarters 5 days a week?

[lurker]

As for Gonzales, the last few days of witnessing him on TV, he doesn't look happy as he used to. Shame that he may decide to resign, though.

[Sue]

Plame told us today that once a covert operative always a covert operative. Same as once a general, always a general. Whether that general is in the field or at the Pentagon. If Scary is to be believed, there are 2 types of employees at the CIA. Overt and covert. He even refers to his classification as covert when he was there. The question that has not been answered, and never will be, is whether she was covered under the terms laid out in the IIPA. From every indication, the answer to that is no.

[SlimGuy]

Only when he becomes "our Beloved Leader TM"

Posted by: Ralph L. | March 16, 2007 at 04:32 PM

TM ain't our leader...the posters here before me from the opposite side always asserted it was Clarice!

Well so much for that.

[TMF]

At least now we have assurances that the Democrats care about safeguarding the "national security interests" of the country

I had my doubts there for a second

You know, what with the constant, relentless, purely partisan undermining of the war on terrorism

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Mike S, what CIA personnel released information about her?

The guy who confirmed her employment to Novak. name starts with an H, I forget.

[lurker]

Powerline's take

[Enlightened]

"What matters is what her husband found, and what the President said"

This is exactly what we have been trying to say.

Joe Wilson corectly reported the uranium/Niger connection to Iraq and
it was used in part, in the Presidents SOTU.

Revisionism is Hollywood sponge-worthy, and Joe and Val's plans to soak the sponge are supremely evident.

[lurker]

Anyone get a copy of that chart and scanned online?

[Semanticleo]

JOM commenters (you know who you are) who feel it necessary to strain out the gnat and gulp down the camel, should reflect on what happens to yes-men like Alberto Gonzalez.

"That's really too bad. I'm sorry.

He's a nice guy.
He just forgot about the rules.

What will you do
after government service?

- I'm not quitting.
- You ain't no presidential appointee.

The one that hired you was me.
You got thirty days."

ABSENCE OF MALICE(?)

[Enlightened]

Hmmm, isn't it funny that Val had a mysterious "walk-by" guy....and so did Novak.

So many coinky-dinks, so little time.

[lurker]

Oh, this is ridiculous!

UN refugee agency ‘deeply disturbed’ by new security raid on Palestinians in Iraq

[Enlightened]

Folks - let's ignore the CREW troll.

[lurker]

Well, ali-cleown, do you have any sympathy towards Rosie's KSM?

How come you're not talking about Rosie's crying for shame comments about KSM????

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Kevin, did you not hear Armitage on Woodward's tape say that the info came from Joe Wilson, who was a busy beaver calling everyone and making himself generally obnoxious? And you conveniently leave out Harlow, who was confirming Val worked at the agency to everyone who called, or so it would seem. We know for sure that he was a confirming source for Novak and he also spilled to Cathi Martin and probably Andrea Mitchell too.

[TMF]

"He just forgot about the rules"

You know, the ones where Republicans are accused of crimes/misconduct when doing the same things Democrats do when they are in power.

[TMF]

"He just forgot about the rules"

You know, the ones where Republicans are accused of crimes/misconduct when doing the same things Democrats do when they are in power.

[Jane]

Jane, Novak used two administration officials as his source. He testified to this.

Richard Armitage did not work in the administration. He worked in state.

[SlimGuy]

The guy who confirmed her employment to Novak. name starts with an H, I forget.

Posted by: Charlie (Colorado) | March 16, 2007 at 04:51 PM

Charlie

It's all about nuance and not facts.

But in other news spring break is on so girls gone wild cant be far behind.

Lets get our priorities straight.

[Enlightened]

Ok, someone tell me this. Why did Valerie Plame say the WH and DOS "recklessly" exposed her? Isn't the truther meme "illegally" exposed her?

So Val couldn't even spew that crap under oath either. Looks like she chose her words carefully. I bet Koko the gorilla helped.

[bbbustard]

The political operative,Libby, lied. He obstructed justice. The endless argument about covert, versus clandestine, versus undercover has nothing to do with his crime.
The results of his distortion of the truth were serious, and must be punished

[cboldt]

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1213
http://oversight.house.gov/Documents/20070316154127-11403.pdf

[lurker]

SCANDAL HYSTERIA GRIPS THE CAPITOL

[Enlightened]

Obstructing Justice means someone was actively seeking justice.

Armitage spoke truth to power before the Fitzmas Goalpost Movement.

It.is.very.simple.to.understand.

[sbw]

Not all newspapers missed the implications of the Libby case. Here are the links to the three-editorial sequence the Rome (NY) Daily Sentinel ran describing some of the misbehavior around the Libby trial:

• The web of incompetence
• The web of deceit
• The web of politics

We conclude:

Should it matter? New York City got on for years in the early 1990s tolerating graffiti, broken windows, and slack behavior. Like the Big Apple, behavior won’t change until you do what the Rome Sentinel does here — warn politicians, staffers, and sycophant journalists that their pattern of behavior is unacceptable.

[Other Tom]

I'm feeling pretty good about what I had to say concerning the whole "covert" issue a few weeks back. In essence, different people from different backgrounds and agencies use the term for different purposes. And that's fine, except that when you're talking about a criminal statute, you must be very precise. Plame, Waxman and the people and materials they quoted today were anything but precise, and for good reason.

For those who want to talk about difficulties of proof and such, save that stuff for somebody else. Only Fitz knows whether he thought there might be a crime, but doubted whether he could get a conviction. Whatever he did or didn't think, he has folded his tent and gone home, and the people who first disclosed Plame's name and employment are free as birds, and they're going to remain free as birds. Those who don't like it will have to discuss the problem with their own inner demons.

For my part, I couldn't care less what Fitz's view was. Plame, through her husband, got herself into a political squabble, and now she has come (apparently) to regret it. She can sell that crap somewhere else--like to Vanity Fair and Warner Brothers.

It is eminently correct to state that overt, covert, undercover and the like have nothing whatsoever to do with the only crime charged as a result of the three-plus year investigation. It is not quite correct to say that the crime must be punished: the President, and the President alone, will decide that question. If he decides Mr. Libby should be pardoned, Mr. Libby will be pardoned. That means that, like Marc Rich, he should not be punished.

[Jim E.]

TM usually does a better job of finding his pony. But I'll guess I'll help him out. (Apologies if others have already pointed this out; I haven't recalled anyone commenting on this yet.):

The handy little chart that the Democrats were using to show how reckless the Administration was with Plame's identity showed that Ari leaked to Gregory. Seems that TM could recycle his already oft-recycled Gregory post on the basis of that (not that he seems to need an excuse).

[clarice feldman]

Sue, there is no limit on depositions in D.C. Obviously, if opposing counsel can show that it is becoming harrassment with losts of repetition etc, they can break it off and seek a court ruling to end it. What a stupid rule to have a time limit--and how easy for the opposition to play that out and defeat the purpose of discovery.

[Enlightened]

Someone - Again - Please Explain

The definition of Reckless has changed to Illegal?

I see that word has now become the New Black of the Covert Crowd.

[lurker]

Rick Moran is right. And I was right, too.

All the Democrats want to do is to ensure that they win in '08. All they want to do is tie WH and the Republicans down as much as they can and destroy that foundation so bad that they are going to make us lose this war against Global Jihadism.

Nothing is going to get done this year and next year.

Be sure that the Democrats are going to find every nook and cranny in every Republican's office and attack them.

That is all we are going to read and hear about.

[Specter]

bbbustard,

so - should we now prosecute V Plame for perjury? She said she was covert, but apparently not so as Fitz could not charge anyone with that.

should we prosecute Howie "AIIIIYEEEEEEE" Dean for breaking the laws about conducting foreign affairs?

The problem is that you are trying to move the goal posts again. Typical troll....

[Semanticleo]

"All the Democrats want to do is to ensure that they win in '08"

Could they do any worse than the morons in this WH?

I submit, that is impossible

[PeterUK]

"JOM commenters (you know who you are)"
Septic, we are all JOM commenters you dick head!

[Specter]

Tic,

One word - Clinton. Done deal. More convictions/resignations from that admin than ever in history. President was impeached. Care to compare? Dip.....

[sbw]

Cleo: Could they do any worse than the morons in this WH? ...I submit, that is impossible

Ignorant of history as usual.

[Enlightened]

"I submit, that is impossible."

Coming from the idiot brigade that delivered 9/11 to our doors, and have framed the blueprint to 9/11-2 with peace, love and joy for all.

[TMF]

Carter was dumb

Clinton was just amoral

[clarice feldman]

Andy McCarthy on "covert":
"Valerie Plame Wilson said in her testimony that she continued to be "covert" while working at Langley — long after her assignment overseas — because she had been covert while working overseas. Her analogy was to a general in the army. A general, she said, remains a general even if he is rotated from combat overseas to a post in the U.S.

This seems pretty silly to me. It conflates RANK with STATUS. The better analogy, I think, would be to a DEA or FBI undercover agent. When the agent is on the undercover assignment, he/she is "covert"; when the agency ends the U/C assignment and transfers the agent (often to a supervisory position), the agent is no longer covert, even though aspects of the former assignment remain closely guarded.
Obviously, when an undercover agent moves onto new, non-undercover responsibilities, that does not mean all entanglements of the covert assignment are over. If, for example, there were classified aspects of the assignment (e.g., the agent's cover was a sham corporation that the agency is still using for undercover purposes), or if the agent, while covert, reported information that is still regarded as sensitive or classified intelligence, all that remains closely guarded (perhaps even classified). So, to that extent, it can still be said that the agent has "covert" responsibilities.
BUT, that doesn't mean his or her day-to-day responsibilities are any longer covert. The agent, for example, walks in and out of headquarters everyday, like hundreds of other people, because there is no longer any imperative to conceal his/her connection to the agency."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=N2JlNjE3MDllNzA4YjBlMTQ2YjU5ZWM5MWNkOTgyYzE=>Covert

[SlimGuy]

Gee

So many new names and so many bad claims, of course without no reference or backup to support their points.

Like dude , I said it so it's true my momma told me so.

Interesting in it's scope, but poor in it's basis.

Carry on guys, if you shoot at the targets at the end of the firing range long enough you can hit something.

Ya know sorta like the old monkeys and typewriter thingy.

[TMF]

Obama seems smart, but hes an empty suit

Ditto Edwards

Hillary is a megalomaniac of Hitlerian proportions

[Terrye]

cleo:

Who cares? The president can fire these people if he damn well feels like it, so who cares who thought it first back whenever? Not everyone is so caught up in minutiae.

Clinton can fire 93 attornies to get rid of the one looking into Whitewater and Reno can start a chain of events in Waco that ends up with 87 dead Americans...not to mention the whole mess at Ruby Ridge and that is not a big deal to the Democrats. No sireee.

But then again since the Clinton administration was arguably the most indicted in history I guess it might not be fair to compare the firings of 8 lawyers who serve at the pleasure of the president {gasp} with something as unimportant as say, Hubbel's conviction for tax evasion and mail fraud.

It would be reassuring if Democrats put even one tenth of the effort into serving their country that they do into being anal and hypocritical.

[Rick Ballard]

"Hillary is a megalomaniac of Hitlerian proportions"

Hitler was fairly trim and rather short - I think Mrs. Clinton might be a bit larger.

[Sue]

What a stupid rule to have a time limit--and how easy for the opposition to play that out and defeat the purpose of discovery.

Thanks for clarifying DC discovery rules for me. I wasn't sure what they were. Texas adopted the federal guidelines several years ago (I'm getting old so time flies, probably around 1997 or 1998). We are limited to the number of hours we can depose a witness unless we go to court for an extension and show good cause why that extension is necessary. So far it has never posed a problem for us, but my boss was a short depo kind of guy anyway.

[Semanticleo]

"Septic, we are all JOM commenters you dick head"

Notwithstanding your inability to separate the wheat from the chaff, PUKe.

[clarice feldman]

More on the vote fraud in 2006 in King County which one of the removed US attys did bupkus about.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003621500_webfraud17m.html

[Specter]

Tic,

I notice you skipped over all the comments about the Carter and especially the Clinton Admins. Just proves the point about moving the goal posts every time you post - troll.

[Sue]

From http://corner.nationalreview.com/>Byron York via Senator Bond.

We have also checked the memorandum written by Ms. Wilson suggesting her husband to look into the Niger reporting. I also stand by the Committee’s finding that this memorandum indicates Ms. Wilson did suggest her husband for a Niger inquiry. Because the quote [the portion of the memo quoted in the Senate report] obviously does not represent the entirety of the memorandum, I suggest that the House Government Reform Committee request and examine this memorandum themselves. I am confident that they will come to the same conclusion as our bipartisan membership did.

Heh!

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Cleo: Could they do any worse than the morons in this WH? ...I submit, that is impossible

Until we have interest rates at 19%, gas lines running up to 2 miles long, and our military completely devastated, I would say yes, we can do worse, and have. His name is Jimmah Carter.

[PeterUK]

"Notwithstanding your inability to separate the wheat from the chaff,"

Well, I can certainly sort the shit from Shinola,as you Americans say,I don't want you on my shoes Septic.

[Enlightened]

Hey the bottom line of todays ring-around the-asshat is, the CIA has had 3 years to "fix" the status of Valerie Plame. And instead of them accusing the administration of "illegally" exposing her indentity, they have embraced "recklessly" exposed her.

Illegally:
not according to or authorized by law : UNLAWFUL, ILLICIT; also : not sanctioned by official rules (as of a game)

Recklessly:
1 : marked by lack of proper caution : careless of consequences
2 : IRRESPONSIBLE

See how easy it is to move the goal posts?

Scooter Libby is facing 20 years in jail for obstructing the Reckless Disregard of Valerie Plame.

This has NEVER been about an illegal leak. It has been about character assassination. That's it. That is all.

[Jane]

"All the Democrats want to do is to ensure that they win in '08"

Could they do any worse than the morons in this WH?

Blood running in the streets from terror attacks, women forced to wear berkhas, gays shot for being gay, women by law allowed half the rights as men, - perhaps those are a few of your favorite things Cleo, but not mine.

[Semanticleo]

"Until we have interest rates at 19%, gas lines running up to 2 miles long, and our military completely devastated"

You may just be prescient, Sara.

When Durable Goods (stuff for making stuff)
stall in the pipeline and major Loan Brokerage houses go belly up in the wake of failed ARM's. (BTW indicators suggest this has already begun) you better have your non-perishable goods and drinking water stored for the long cold winter that is destined to follow. Cheerio!

[Specter]

ROFLMAO Jane.

C'mon Tic - let's hear your response to all of that. It should be so...well...I don't know what, but certainly not enlightening

[lurker]

PUK,

Love your responses to ali-cleown! Keep it up!

[KevinNYC]

Jane, I didn't say worked in the Bush White House, I said, administration. That would cover the state department as well.

Sara, my understanding is that Harlow tried to get Novak not to publish. Novak ignored him.

Here's what the Washington Post wrote about Harlow. Has this been disproven?

Harlow, the former CIA spokesman, said in an interview yesterday that he testified last year before a grand jury about conversations he had with Novak at least three days before the column was published. He said he warned Novak, in the strongest terms he was permitted to use without revealing classified information, that Wilson's wife had not authorized the mission and that if he did write about it, her name should not be revealed.

Harlow said that after Novak's call, he checked Plame's status and confirmed that she was an undercover operative. He said he called Novak back to repeat that the story Novak had related to him was wrong and that Plame's name should not be used. But he did not tell Novak directly that she was undercover because that was classified.

[Jim E.]

Sara,
Do you think our military is in good shape right now??

[TMF]

cleo

"BTW indicators suggest this has already begun"

You mean the ones in your ass?

Or actual like, economists?

Yeah, the lines are forming at the airport to move to France

Where we can get some REAL unemployment-(11%) none of this 4.5% crap

[Specter]

Now Tic is an economist. Gawwwd...unbelievable.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Jane, let's add women not allowed to drive, men who can announce they don't want to be married anymore and they are automatically divorced, a demand that the family of a raped woman kill her because the rape brings shame to the family, children praised for training to be homocide bombers, women stoned for showing any part of their body more than their eyes and in extreme cases, not even their eyes.

[TMF]

specter

Im just impressed he can spell "ARM"

The only one who didnt see the insanely overpriced real estate market softening up was cleo

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Yes, JimE I do think our military is in great shape and in far better shape than we were under Carter.

[Herman]

So, Mr. Maguire believes he has better knowledge about Ms. Wilson's status than does the guy who runs the CIA. Wow.

Or maybe Mr. Maguire's position is "I don't care if the government was trying to keep her CIA identity a secret in order to promote national security. All I care about is if a law was violated or not!!!" Translation: "Who cares if our country is harmed, we can't let any harm come to the Bush Administration."

But, the problem for Mr. Maguire is that (at least at one point), Mr. Bush himself indicated that the leaking was so serious as to be cause for immediate dismissal. Back in June 2004, he told a reporter so. (Once it was determined that Rove would have to go if Bushie kept his promise, Bush conveniently changed his mind). Even earlier (the previous year), Scott McClellan had told reporters that anyone who had leaked would be fired. No matter how you squirm to define "covert," (a squirming that is ultimately rather meaningless), let's just say that the Bush Administration itself did not, to put it mildly, regard the leak as being in the country's best interest. Okay, Mr. Maguire?

Just one question for you, Mr. Maguire. Say you're a federal employee and you are given a name on a sheet of paper and told that the person works for the CIA. You don't know if the person is covert as you define "covert," covert as the CIA chief defines "covert," or not covert at all. Do you:

1) go running to a reporter, eager to share the information,

or

2) KEEP YOUR [expletive-deleted][expletive-deleted] MOUTH [expletive-deleted] SHUT???

Conservative, please think of the potential consequences before you answer.

[Jim E.]

Oh, and here's the start of the very next sentence that Andy McCarthy wrote about Plame's status, but clarice conveniently chose not to include in her block quote:

McCarthy: "We don't know all the facts necessary to render a definitive judgment..."

[Specter]

Uh yeah Kevin...that is exactly the point. Harlow told Novak that Plame worked there. If the government was "actively" trying to hide her as covert, he would not have been able to do so. No matter how you want to spin it, Harlow told Novak Plame worked for the agency. Get over it. Done deal.

[PeterUK]

Jane,
This I think,is what psychologists call a "displacement activity",rather than deal with something that is outside their control,Jihad, the Democrats are conjuring up a demon they can deal with.Makes no difference,if the Democrats get into power,as they have done in a small way,the world won't have changed and they will still be unable to deal with it.
This is obvious from their actions since the became the majority party.

[Enlightened]

The newly appointed New Order of Democrats should be takin' care of business. You mean they are not going to stop the fall of the loan houses? Gonna help out on those ARM's? How bout them durable goods, they gonna pass on that too? So they were not elected "For the Children", or "The People" or "The Country".

More important to parse Illegal versus Reckless huh?

And the sad thing is, they do not even recognize sheer stupidity when it bullseyes the cranial cap.

[clarice feldman]

PLUS< Specter--when the govt wants something to stay secret--they make more effort to do so than the CIA did. (Not that that works in the case of real secrets and the NYT about which the left has no trouble at all.)

[Specter]

You are right enlightened. They have been in power for about three months. It must be the Democrats fault. They didn't fix it. Right Tic?

[Enlightened]

Herman -

Can you please provide the transcript that states Valerie Plame's identity was ILLEGALLY (IE: AGAINST THE LAW) leaked?

Everyone in the Committee today, including the alleged "victim" has stated it was "RECKLESSLY (IE: NOT AGAINST THE LAW) leaked.

Let's get the facts in order shall we?

[lurker]

Jim E.,

Ah but you didn't finish the paragraph:

We don't know all the facts necessary to render a definitive judgment, but it sure seems like Mrs. Wilson is using the continuing sensitivity of facts about her formerly covert STATUS to suggest, misleadingly, that she continued to have a covert RANK once she returned back home and was assigned to headquarters — where a zillion people a day saw her walk in and out of CIA and the Agency was obviously not trying to conceal the fact that she worked there.

[PeterUK]

Herman,
You're not the Singing Dalek are you? Can we expect the rest of the Hermits?

[Enlightened]

Now let me get this straight.

Are we (ie: libtards) breathlessly waiting for Henry Waxman to proclaim the "ILLEGALITY" of Plame's leaked identity?

[clarice feldman]

Jim E you accuse me of deliberately leaving out something in McCarthy's piece and then trim it yourself?LOL
Here's the whole bit:
"We don't know all the facts necessary to render a definitive judgment, but it sure seems like Mrs. Wilson is using the continuing sensitivity of facts about her formerly covert STATUS to suggest, misleadingly, that she continued to have a covert RANK once she returned back home and was assigned to headquarters — where a zillion people a day saw her walk in and out of CIA and the Agency was obviously not trying to conceal the fact that she worked there."

[Jim E.]

Sara: "Yes, JimE I do think our military is in great shape and in far better shape than we were under Carter."

Thanks for answering. I should have expected such a delusional answer. Say what you want about Carter, but the military he presided over wasn't broken nor spread nearly as thin as what we have today.

It's hard to imagine anyone -- certainly not anyone in uniform -- who thinks today's military is in "great shape." It is not. Which is why the age limit keeps getting raised, why criminals are now allowed in, why training state-side is reduced, and why even if the war ended tomorrow, it would take over $200 billion just to repair equipment. By God, gays aren't even getting kicked out at the usual rates anymore.

[lurker]

that Wilson's wife had not authorized the mission

- Harlow's words.

Valerie may not have authorized it but she suggested Wilson's name for the trip. So much for nepotism.

[Enlightened]

Clarice - Help a girl out - Is Henry Waxman going to proclaim the "illegality" of the Plame leak? Sarc on.

[sbw]

I hear an underlying pattern reverberating through the post-election background noise:   Democrats don't believe in their own ideas. They have no confidence that what they offer will be able to convince enough voters to win the next election.

Instead, they turn to demonizing the opposition, using rhetorical sleight of hand to misdirect attention lest what someone else says might make more sense than what the Democrats have to offer.

Cleo, Pete, Jeff, -- you have nothing to offer and are too embarrassed to admit it.

[Spartacvs]

Can you please provide the transcript that states Valerie Plame's identity was ILLEGALLY (IE: AGAINST THE LAW) leaked?

Well that's the whole point isn't it.

If this was a legal leak why doesn't the President just come out and say so and put everyone's mind at rest?

[lurker]

Right.

Jim E., Nixon and Ford made sure that the military was in great shape before Carter took over. Sure, Carter allowed the military to become broken.

Today's military is far better than Carter's military.

Clinton did not make sure that his military was in great shape when Bush took over. How nice of him.

[lurker]

Can you please provide the transcript that states Valerie Plame's identity was ILLEGALLY (IE: AGAINST THE LAW) leaked?

Well that's the whole point isn't it.

If this was a legal leak why doesn't the President just come out and say so and put everyone's mind at rest?

The President doesn't have. Besides, guess what will happen if he did. Those Democrats will attack him from each and every corner. They and their nutroots will think Bush is covering up. Best for him to keep his mouth shut about that.

[Sue]

Sara, my understanding is that Harlow tried to get Novak not to publish. Novak ignored him.

After confirming her employment. Is that how they protect our covert operatives? I just figured they would say no comment or they don't know her, if she was really super duper covert.

[Tom Maguire]

From Kevin in NYC:

The CIA did make a recommendation that an IIPA investigation take place. Plame's covert status was probably affirmatively determined at the very beginning of the investigation. If the Justice Department doubted there was enough to investigate an IIPA disclosure, they wouldn't have had to interview Scooter Libby inf the first place.

Groan - check the Conyers correspondence - the referral was for a leak of classified info (and who doubts it?), *NOT* for the outing of a covert agent.

Get reality-based.

Hayden has been appointed to two positions by GWB, if there was any debate as to her status, wouldn't he have hedged his statement to protect his boss' reputation? Wouldn't he have gone to the CIA's legal office to confirm her status as it pertained to the statute? Is the argument that, once again, GWB has appointed an incompetent that would provide such a damning doccument re: a flammable situation, to a congressional committee chaired by a member of the opposition party, without doing his due dilligence.

Not bad spin. Of course, the Dems will be influencing his budget, so he needs to play nice. But more importantly, we don't know what he told Waxman - we know what Waxman chose to present to us.

And Waxman may have said, look, I am asking an easy question - per the CIA handbook and assignment docket, was she considered to be covert?

Even if Hayden answered "Yes, but...", all Waxman gave us was the "yes".

[Enlightened]

I can tell you I am just outraged that the Democratic Congress is going to allow mass foreclosures due to the ARM's that BUSH made homeowners sign.

[TMF]

sbw

Its not like they won on any ideas

Did you hear one single idea floated during the campaign?

It was all "not Bush" all the time. Every single one of these congressional "blue dog" clowns simply ran a bunch of ads with the other guy standing next to Bush, followed by a couple flagdrapedcoffin shots

Emptiest election in history

[Specter]

Jim E.,

Maybe you could explain to all of us just exactly when the big cuts in military spending went into effect? Think about it before you answer because you might be embarrassed.

[verner]

The only people who were "reckless" about Plame were Plame, Wilson and the CIA. When she said that the OVP "Should have known" that is utter BS. There are thousands of employees at the CIA who would not fit the dfinition of "covert" or NOC at the CIA--even in Val's so called division.

Grenier, Harlow, and everybody else at CIA who had contact with the administration never disclossed covert, much less "classified" status.

Not to mention, considering Joe's "relationship" with the CIA through the wife, I can not believe that those in authority would not be spitting nails at Wilson's careless, extremely public "political" activity surrounding the Niger trip (remember the half dozen mentions of "Plame" in his bios.) Didn't anybody in the agency try to make him realize the problems he was causing?

But they didn't. Why?

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Well JimE, we were in the military during the Carter years, so I'll take my first-hand knowledge over yours, if you don't mind.

[Jim E.]

Shorter Andy McCarthy: "seems... I think... if... seems.... suggests..."

Speculation is great, but I thought it was worth pointing out that McCarthy admits not knowing the necessary facts to render a judgment.

[Enlightened]

Spart - Are you dumb too? Fitz said not Illegal. Bush's mouthpiece - or did you miss that?

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Oh and JimE, those years also included the Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and part of Bush41 years.

[Tom Maguire]

Hmm, I am just working my way down the thread, but I see "Looking for a way" is getting onto my wavelength. Scary news for at least one of us...

[Sue]

1) go running to a reporter, eager to share the information,

I re-read your rant looking for the name that was conspicuously absent today. Didn't find it in your rant either. Why is everyone hiding Armitage?

[lurker]

Andy's point in that paragraph is further down:

"We don't know all the facts necessary to render a definitive judgment, but it sure seems like Mrs. Wilson is using the continuing sensitivity of facts about her formerly covert STATUS to suggest, misleadingly, that she continued to have a covert RANK once she returned back home and was assigned to headquarters — where a zillion people a day saw her walk in and out of CIA and the Agency was obviously not trying to conceal the fact that she worked there."

Covert does not mean that an agent remains covert for the remainder of their lives.

That was the gist of his article. Once your job does not require covert, you're no longer covert.

That's all.

What Valerie said today about being covert means that one is covert always. Not "Once an Aggie, always an Aggie"!!

[lurker]

Correction:

"What Valerie said today about being covert does not means that one is covert always. Not "Once an Aggie, always an Aggie"!!

[Spartacvs]

The President doesn't have (to?).

True.

Besides, guess what will happen if he did. Those Democrats will attack him from each and every corner.

Very likely true also.

They and their nutroots will think Bush is covering up.

Yes.

Best for him to keep his mouth shut about that.

As you say it's for the best, at least as far as Bush is concerned. But what about the rest of us who aren't Bushbots, you know like 80% of the country?

[clarice feldman]

Sue, the standard response to a question about a CIA employee regardles of status has always been "The agency neither confirms not denies the employment of any person."

Unless the Dems changed that standard response to yes, no , maybe, sure but it'll give her trouble when in Cannes or Kabul.