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March 01, 2007

Comments

clarice

Funny you should mention cigarette offsets, our British representative, Mr. PUK, should have a proposal which will interest you in a few minutes--He's on the phone to our Nigerian banker at the moment.


Pofarmer

I suppose you know that AlGore owns a company that deals in Carbon offsets?

I think I should start one. What a crock. The ultimate Panzi scheme, looks to me like.

Ralph L.

Is that a banker from Niger or Nigeria?

clarice

Nigeria. But if it's Niger you want, our representative Mr. Odala PUK, in Niamey is busy trading yellowcake offsets. I can take a message for him.

PeterUK

Yes indeed,You buy you cigarettes in the normal way,but never take delivery of the,our third world offsetter will be smoking them for you.This is how Clarice was perfectly content in court,she was safe in the knowledge her cigarettes were being smoked in an low carbon environment.

Ralph L.

They're rebroadcasting John Bolton on CSPAN2 right now.

Chants

DO NOT BE TAKEN IN BY THOSE OTHER CARBON OFFSET SCAMS!

You need Chants' AMWAY Approved Multi-Level Marketing Carbon Offset Scam!

Chants. The Scam you can trust.

windansea

Marlboros are 2 bucks a pack here in old Mexico...can I be of assistance? We could have the smokes bought at US prices but then ship them from Mexico for offset smoking in low carbon locations

warehouse space is cheap too

Other Tom

With a heavy heart, I am withdrawing predictions #11 and 11A.

ordi

Pofarmer

He really has ownership in one? Yes, it is indeed a Ponzi-Scheme!

I am for the Cigarette off-sets for Restaurants and Bars! Also, Trans-fat Off-sets!

SunnyDay

Cig offsets for airplanes!!

centralcal

Other Tom!

Say it isn't so!!

(What were predictions 11 and 11A again?)

Enlightened

Heh. I boldly predict Offsets will shortly replace - Is, is.

Ralph L.

How would you do illicit sex offsets? Castration? Long term lesbian relationships?

Javani

I think the carbon credit bubble already burst.

Yesterday I saw a sad lady with a sidewalk table stand selling Blublocker sunglasses, Herbalife, and carbon credits.

Extraneus

Earn Eco-Salvation the Quick and Easy Iowahawk Way

David L

Mrs. Clinton's campaign has announced that Mr. Clinton, a.k.a. B.J. did not rape, molest, or harrass anybody because had purchaed sexual offsets. Juanitta Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey and Monica Lewinsky could not be reached for comments.

Charlie (Colorado)

And now for something completely different.

clarice

http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=221450
Bristol academics claim Branson prize.

Larry

I beat those Bristol academics to the punch in a thread here this week when I said we should make the militant greens quit exhaling CO2.

clarice

Charlie--I'll see you UTube and raise you--this one is amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTKJiP_bdbE

clarice

For a reasonable retainer fee we could sue them,Larry.

Larry

Wouldn't that be a conflict of interest, Clarice? I mean what with S C A M and all......

hit and run

From the article:
The solution, published online by The Journal of Unlikely Science, is remarkably simple, requiring no technological wizardry or financial investment. It is quite simply, stop breathing; or at least breathe less.

Me too!!!

vnjagvet: Breathlessly waiting.

Posted by: vnjagvet | February 28, 2007 at 06:27 AM

Good! Less carbon dioxide.

Posted by: hit and run | February 28, 2007 at 06:32 AM


...

Other Tom:
Now I'm gonna shut up until


Yes!!! More less carbon dioxide!

WE can do it people!

Posted by: hit and run | February 28, 2007 at 06:34 AM

clarice

I am certain my clinet--that is YOU--will gladly waive that in the full knwoeldge that my loyalty would never be divided..

Charlie (Colorado)

Okay, that is pretty cool....

Ralph L.

I heard Rachmaninov play on the radio this morning. They've made new recordings from his player-piano rolls.

centralcal

Clarice: The dancers were wonderful!

clarice

Isn't that amazing! How do they ever memorize the routine?

Charlie (Colorado)

Did you get any details, Ralph?

We had the Rachmaninoff piano rolls when I was a very young kid. That man was some kind of freak.

Charlie (Colorado)

Amazon has everything.

Ralph L.

Try WCPE.org You can order the CDs they play and listen to the broadcast online. It's a listener-supported station, no tax money involved.

Charlie (Colorado)

You're in NC, Ralph?

I used to listen to WCPE all the time.

ben

the highest Intrade bid on Libby being found guilty of at least one count is way down to 54.0...offers still at 75.0..last trade was 70.0

Ralph L.

I didn't have any trouble with the big chords in that Prelude. It was the fast parts I couldn't do at all well. I'd like to see the rest of their show.

Ralph L.

Yes, but unfortunately reception is poor in my neighborhood. They have a huge antenna now; I heard them in Danville VA on Monday.

Other Tom

I think prediction 11A was "hung on all counts for which they have not been unanimous for acquittal." I have a hard time squaring the descriptions of their group demeanor today with any disagreements. I have to say that it turns my stomach a bit that people would behave in this manner--the T-shirts, the levity, the early Friday recess--with so much at stake for the guy they're deliberating about.

clarice

I don't think they've even begun voting yet, OT

clyde

"I have to say that it turns my stomach a
bit that people would behave in
this manner--the T-shirts, the levity, the early Friday recess."
.
So far the jury seems to be getting a free pass on their ultimate duty.

What's the sentiment about blaming the jury if they get it wrong?

clarice

This is a reasonable description of the "facilitator" technique of group decision making..

Some aspects are not suitable for juries (i.e. "brainstorming") but you'll get the idea of what I THINK they are oing:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:2KRqEPAgOToJ:www.effectivemeetings.com/teams/teamwork/creighton.asp+facilitator+techniques&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us>Facilitator

I do not recall all the background of the jury but it sounds to me as one of them has this background and is using this method.

Dan Collins

I'm glad that you're on this, Tom. Otherwise, I might have to read stuff like this about this case:

http://guntotingliberal.com/archives/860

And that would make my brain hurt.

ben

Clarice

So what are the consequences of the Facilitator technique for this trial?

clarice

It doesn't dictate results, but because it helps people focus it tends to lead to more rational results --and much less acrimony--getting there.

Bruce Hayden

It doesn't make sense to trade one pack of cigarettes for one third world person quitting. After all, the carbon offsets don't work that way.

Instead, you have a company bribing the Uganda government to create national parks and evict the long time residents in order to plant trees there. And then you take the 99 year benefits of the trees (ignoring any methane production, of course) w/o paying for the maintainence of the trees as your carbon offset.

Planting trees in India was almost as good, as they forgot to provide the water needed to keep them growing. That agin was because they took the credits based on 99 years of benefits, but didn't fund the maintainence.

Or, you provide the poor in South Africa with compact flourescent bulbs, and make them travel 50 miles to pick them up.

Part of the problem here, which is why you need to have your non-smoking programs somewhere in the Third World, preferably in Africa or Asia, is that the geographic separation almost totally disengages the markets. Thus, in the case of Gore's power bills, he helps drive the demand side in Tenn., while the supply side is being manipulated in South Africa, resulting in more, high carbon, power being generated here, and less power being generated there.

It is bad enough moving power across this country, given the inevitable loss. But it is impossible right now to move it from South Africa here.

So, the nice thing about a non-smoking program in Africa is that it doesn't affect air quality here.

SunnyDay

Wow! That does sound like it - even the shirts and silliness.

Dan Collins

I'd sell you guys some fuckhead credits, but I don't have any to spare.

ben


"It doesn't dictate results, but because it helps people focus it tends to lead to more rational results --and much less acrimony--getting there"

Well I am for acrimony if it gets us a hung jury rather than a conviction..but if it gets us an acquittal then I am for rational results.

clyde


"It doesn't dictate results, but because it helps people focus it tends to lead to more
rational results --and much less acrimony--getting there."
But what if the jury is irrational and renders a guilty verdict?

Other Tom

That's very encouraging, Clarice. If God came down right now (or sent a delegate) and announced that they haven't taken any votes yet, I would be elated. I hope you're correct.

On another delightful note, I see that Gore and two lackeys were waived through the screening process at an airport, until a security employee objected and they had to be screened like everyone else. Put this together with the $20,000 annual electrical bill and you might get the notion that this guy thinks the rules he wants to apply to others don't apply to him. That couldn't be it, could it?

Other Tom

Anybody remember how many felony convictions Ken Starr got? For some reason I think it was eighteen, and of course he was indirectly responsible for Clinton getting fined $90,000 by a federal judge for lying to him, and being disbarred and impeached. Now THERE was was a special prosecutor, by God.

clarice

We used this technique once to make a very difficult decision in which many people were involved. Some parts of it seemed quite silly at times, but I have to tell you it worked.

ben


"I'd sell you guys some fuckhead credits, but I don't have any to spare."

Hey Dan, you should be able to borrow some from friends and family....

windansea

Still, as demand for greener living grows, the number of companies jumping into the game has multiplied. At least 60 companies sold offsets worth about $110 million to consumers in Europe and North America in 2006, up from only about a dozen selling offsets worth $6 million in 2004, according to Abyd Karmali of ICF International.Yet another perverse effect, say critics, is that some types of carbon-offset initiatives may actually slow the changes aimed at coping with global warming by prolonging consumers’ dependence on oil, coal and gas, and encouraging them to take more short-haul flights and drive bigger cars than they would otherwise have done.

ben

"We used this technique once to make a very difficult decision in which many people were involved. Some parts of it seemed quite silly at times, but I have to tell you it worked."

I'm with Clyde on this, I am only recommending this technique if we get an acquittal...

clarice

A friend just emailed me to tell me she was on a jury last year..and they first established a timeline befire they even considered the issues to be resolved.

Here. too besides diagramming the witness' inconsistencies (ie. Fleischer and Pincus), they might also be doing a timeline. We forget how complicated a case Fitz has brought. If he had hoped--as his rebuttal indicated--to sway the jury by smoke and mirrors andemotion, I think he may be surprised if the jury is proceeding as I think they are.

Sara (Squiggler)

Re: Gore -- Hot Air says not to worry, Gore has "security offsets."

clarice

OT_-Well Starr had a lot more to work with.

Neo

Carbon offsets

You can put Carbon offsets up there with buying your way out the the draft for $150 (civil war).

The whole idea of "Indulgences" invokes images of Martin Luther and "Speaking Truth to Power".

BarbaraS

I got the jump on everyone. I got a 501c from the feds for my carbon offset company. You are all toast.

ben

Sara you could have stopped after Gore -- Hot Air....

ben

Al Gore just gave a press conference...he invented airport security screening machines.

Neo

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural-and not a human-induced-cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory.

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars ...

Holy Cow !! Man has managed to ruin Mars too.

With just a handful of scientific probes, NASA has managed to screw up an entire planet.

That’s the ticket. ... and my wife is Morgan Fairchild.

Ralph L.

I'm still angry Starr didn't even indict over the FBI files caper. That was not an honest mistake.

ben


"I'm still angry Starr didn't even indict over the FBI files caper. That was not an honest mistake."

Well how about Sandy Burglar...you can get 30 years for a "he said, I said" conversation with Tim Russert but if you steal documents from the National Archives its "have a nice evening sir"

Other Tom

What do you think Fitz would have done about the "missing" timesheets?

Ralph L.

Did anyone hear about VP Gore's late 90's airport security commission after 9/11? I think TAS was the only place I saw it mentioned, and that may have been before 2001.

clarice

Indicted the maid OT.

Ralph L.

In a way, Starr was the best thing to happen to the Clintons. Scandals went down a black hole because the press used him as an excuse to stop hammering Clinton like they did Nixon or do W.

ben

Well dont get me wrong, I think Bill and Hil are absolute scumbags but I do wonder if Clinton would have paid more attention to the bombing of the Cole and the Saudi barracks etc. if he wasnt worried about the next "stain" on his reputation, so to speak...

Other Tom

And who is responsible for the stains?

ben

The great right wing conspiracy, don't you remember?

Ralph L.

I hate to descend into psychobabble, but I think it's true: Clinton grew up with a violent alcoholic stepfather, so life on the edge became his comfort zone.

Remember the video he did for the 2000 WH Corres. dinner, where he's trolling the WH looking for something (not someone) to do?

There was a telling comment by Hillary I'd like to see trumpeted, but I can't remember where I saw it. She said for years they'd wake up angry every morning (not at each other, at their (other) enemies).

ghostcat

A well-facilitated decision process takes a good deal of time, but is more likely to yield a consensus. If they have a decent facilitor in their midst, the odds of a hung drop substantially.

ghostcat

... jury ...

ben

Yeah, I was worried about that when Clarice described it...I kind of like the idea of a hung jury to be on the table as a back-up for acquittal

Ralph L.

That was a BIG slip there, ghostcat.

clyde

"If they have a decent
facilitor in
their midst, the odds of a hung
drop substantially."

But what if the jury renders a guilty verdict? Are they irrational?

Ralph L.

Looking at all that meeting stuff, I'm so glad I'm not greasing the govt's bureaucratic wheels anymore. There are advantages to working in a two man office in a 7 man company, even if I get stuck with most of the retail duties.

plamehouse lover

Looks like it is going to be a long weekend. That explains why the jury was so 'giddy'. They are comfortable because of the method they are using to sort analyze organize the case. They are taking their duty seriously. They might even be turning into plameologists. No rushing, no stress just total focus on determining the facts of the case and rendering a verdict.
WoW


Ralph L.

If it takes them a week to all find reasonable doubt, some of them must be working very hard to avoid finding it.

Ralph L.

People have been trying for years to find the facts of this case with a lot more information than the jury has, and they haven't done it yet.

Syl

Looking at all that meeting stuff,

I had a couple of guys working for me evenings and weekends to complete a programming system. Both of them were IT managers, one at Citibank in NYC. Neither of them did coding anymore and spent their working hours in meetings and stuff. They both jumped at the chance to do actual programming again (both were friends of the company owner).

And to top it off they were both neat and made the project a lot of fun.

MayBee

They might even be turning into plameologists

yeah, I saw that post by Jane Hamsher this morning.
I do like it that the jury might be sort analyze organizing the case. That sounds like it would take 3 times as long!

Syl

People have been trying for years to find the facts of this case

Well, if they do a timeline and put the dots in the proper temporal relationship, they'll see a cluster early June....then nothing 'til that famous week.

That should give them a hint.

The problem with approaching the evidence and witnesses that way though is that memory doesn't work the same.

Carol Herman

FROM CAROL HERMAN

You can't fool me!

The only reason the jurors need this weekend off is to prepare for their day in the limelight. I'm sure the gals are booked at the hair salons. And, if I'm not mistaken, some "do's" take almost an entire day to create.

For some reason, people want to forget Cynthia McKinney's attempts at reducing her time spent getting her hair braided. Then, she forgot her congress-critter pin. And, nobody really recognized her when she was having a bad hair day.

On Monday morning you'll see it. The jury will arrive wearing "business suits." And, as I said, their hair will be done.

As to the verdict, I have my doubts they won't find "something wrong" with Libby. Because the judge never treated him nice.

What will stymie the jurors the most? HOW TO KEEP THEIR STORIES STRAIGHT! Don't forget, if they don't acquit, they have to explain! You try explaining how you choose a charge, here, or there? Who'd you depend on? You can't use Fitz's reBUTTal, because Fitz couldn't decide if it was 8 or 9 or 10 different people who exposed val to redicule. Or is it assassination attempts? Hard to tell, anymore. But the jurors are set for the BIG ONE.

Will it bring laughs? It will depend on what they say, now, won't it?

And, if there are any guilty charges? How long will it take Wells to reach the DC Circuit, and pull the "breaker switch" on the current meme. To replace it with "holy shi'it, honey. This thing's gonna get bigger! Like a story on Viagra. Or something.

steve

This case is a truly nasty braintwister for any jury. The timelines, the meta-memory "I recall that I recalled" stuff, the partial disagreements of testimony within and across witnesses, materiality, confusing motives--I'd rather they take their time.

Half the time I think it's just a matter of conflicting memories a la Rashomon. The other half of the time I think Diogenes would need more than a lantern to find an honest man here--more like a laser beam.

Ralph L.

An honest juror would realize the jurors' memories of the recent testimony are quite different--which should lead him to giving Libby the benefit of the doubt as he should. They needed photos to keep the witnesses straight, and they'd just seen them.

I tried to read Fitz's rebuttal, which is almost incoherent, which ought to tell the jury something about his case.

ErnestAbe

How do you explain the various reports that the jury did not look at Libby yesterday?

I think they were showing disrespect to Libby during the Valentine's Day T-shirt stunt. This is a serious process, with serious consequences, and no defendent should see a jury acting this way, when the defendent and the entire system depends on their impartiality and their taking the process seriously.

Taken together, the Valentines Day stunt and the avoidance of eye contact with the defendent shows a lack of sympathy with him.

The giddiness seems to me to be a sign of good repore. I was in a jury that acted likewise, and we needed to remind ourselves that we needed to put on a straight face when we went back into the courtroom to annouce our (guilty) verdict. It was a much less significant case, with only a 2 day deliberation, but we were finally quite relieved to come to agreement.

Wells worked so hard to establish a repore with the jury, and to use his personal charisma to emotionally connect the jury to Libby. With this educated jury that seems to be rather painstaking in its analysis, the Wells appeal to emotions may have actually backfired, emotially distancing the jury.

It seems more likely than not, to me, as I read the few available tea leaves, that some or most jurors could actually be insulted by such emotional appeals. No one likes to think they are so easily swayed. For example, most people like to believe that advertising doesn't sway them emotionally, preferring to believe that they are intelligent beings who make rational buying decisions.

MayBee

Well, Ernest Abe.
It looks like you missed a good chance to ask again about Wells putting his face in his hands and just giving up after his closing argument.
That's probably all the jurors have been talking about the last 7 days.

M. Simon

Tobacco is an anti-depressant.

ErnestAbe

Good point, MayBee. What do you think the impact is of Wells face in his hands during Fitz's entire rebuttal, now that the jury did not make a quick emotional decision to acquit?

Do you think that Wells might have shown more confidence in the evidence and logic of his arguments if he didn't resort to smotional (and some say, theatrical) appeals?

ErnestAbe

ben at 8:10 --

It is interesting to see Intrade inch downward, although it remains in the 60-80 range betting on conviction on at least one count. Last trade at 65.

I'm surprised it hasn't gone lower, considering the contract would be worth zero not just for an acquital, but also for a mistrial or hung jury. Seems to me that odds of a hung jury (or mistrial) go up the longer the jury deliberates.

Patton

Sad truth is, those that fall for Al Gores' 'An Inconvient Truth' will also fall for the Carbon Offset excuse.

So why does Al want to ban the combustion engine, when we could just use a carbon offset?

If the lemmings that follow him would think for half a second, they would see how stupid carbon offsets are.

Patton

"""Did anyone hear about VP Gore's late 90's airport security commission after 9/11? I think TAS was the only place I saw it mentioned, and that may have been before 2001."""

Its available on the web. Back story is that Gore's initial draft report recommended upgraded security requirements including things like beefed up cockpits doors.

THEN THE CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS CAME ROLLING IN FROM THE AIRLINES AND THE FINAL REPORT WAS CHANGED TO JUST 'RECOMMENDATION' VICE MANDATORY SECURITY IMPROVEMENTS.

Patton

Scoop on the Gore sellout:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/530606/posts

just prior to the 1996 election, Gore penned a letter to airline lobbyist Carol Hallett, promising that the commission's findings would not cause the airlines any loss of revenue. The very next day the Democratic National Committee received a check in the amount of $40,000 from TWA. Over the next two weeks Northwest, United and American Airlines donated $55,000 more.

In the next two months the Democratic National Committee pocketed over $250,000 from American Airlines. United Airlines threw in an additional $100,000. Northwest Airlines added $53,000. That’s a grand total of over half a million dollars. According to the Washington Times, Whitehouse Spokesman, Ginny Terzano gave no denial when asked whether Al Gore solicited these airline donations personally.

Patton

Of course you must understand, Al Gore thinks these rules only apply to the little people...not important people like himself:

Former vice president Al Gore was involved in a security breach at the Nashville Airport when an American Airlines employee led him and his entourage around security, a clear violation of policy.

"There are no exceptions. Everyone must go through security," airport spokesperson Lynn Lowrance said.

Wednesday at the Nashville Airport, Gore arrived with two others and airport. Sgt. Gary Glover with airport police waited for his arrival and to go through security.

"He made his way to security, waiting for him to come through the check area, then he saw him pop up past security in a sterile area," Lowrance said.

Gore and his group bypassed the metal detectors, a blatant security breach.

Bob

Ralph

Here's Gore's report which was dropped after the airline industry ponied up almost a mliion bucks to the the Clinton/Gore '96 election.

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/212fin~1.html>White House Commission on Aviation Safety and Security

Some highlights:

3.7. The FAA should work with airlines and airport consortia to ensure that all passengers are positively identified and subjected to security procedures before they board aircraft.

Curb-side check-in, electronic ticketing, advance boarding passes, and other initiatives are affecting the way passengers enter the air transportation system. As improved security procedures are put into place, it is essential that all passengers be accounted for in that system, properly identified and subject to the same level of scrutiny. The Commission urges the FAA to work with airlines and airport consortia to ensure that necessary changes are made to accomplish that goal.

3.11 Access to airport controlled areas must be secured and the physical security of aircraft must be ensured.

Air carriers and airport authorities, working with FAA, must develop comprehensive and effective means by which to secure aircraft and other controlled areas from unauthorized access and intrusion. Use of radio frequency transponders to track the location of people and objects in airport controlled areas, including aircraft, offers significant advantages over the current security measures commonly used today. Where adequate airport controlled area and aircraft security are not assured by other means, this technology should be considered for use at both international and domestic airports.

Of course non of this ever happened once the check had cleared!

hit and run

Neo:
and my wife is Morgan Fairchild.

Well I went to highschool with Morgan Fairchild! OK, she was a few years before me.

hit and run

Ralph:
There are advantages to working in a two man office in a 7 man company, even if I get stuck with most of the retail duties.


You sellin' anything I need? Maybe I'd stop on by and buy?

PMII

I'm sick of the discussions on the credits & offsets which we all know are scams.

But I plan to offer debits & onsets from my website shortly. All aboveboard, no scam, honest, cross my fingers, toes,....

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Wilson/Plame